Stories from the Sales Frontlines

tidester

when i bought my focus, i was offered a dell computer or $500

You get today's Gold Star for following the host's nudge to relate the issue to something on topic!

The rest of you, well ...!

tidester, host

graphicguy

UGH....e-bay car sales :confuse: . Don't know contract law. Wouldn't buy a car sight unseen.

Sounds like someone made an offer for a car in another state and wanted the seller to "honor" an OTD deal. Seller accepted the offer, but wouldn't pay the sales tax in the buyer's locale. Buyer's definition of OTD is different than the seller's.

Putting all the "gibberish" aside about suing and negative feedback posting on e-bay, until money changes hands and a car is delivered, I don't know that there's anything, anyone can do about it.

I've sold stuff on e-bay before (never a car). Negative feedback can hinder doing business on e-bay, but that's about it.

british_rover

Yeah that was our thoughts too so It should be ok. The real plus is that since we were the last ones in yesterday we are the first ones out Sunday.

I am sure I will have some interesting stories from the auto show as something strange always happens.

snakeweasel

Yeah the first computer I worked on (about 1987 too) we upgraded to a whopping 40 meg hard drive and a 640K RAM plus we had two floppy drives.

british_rover

Yeah but did you have a tape drive??? :P

grandtotal

How about selling MS-DOS to Bill Gates for a pittance? Of course you could argue that it wasn't worth much until he was able to license it to IBM.

bigdveedubgirl

So after being at the store for 10.5 hours yesterday, a guy in a 11 year old Nissan truck comes in to look a CPO A4s. He informed me that he was going to talk to me and his buddy on his cell phone at the same time. Then he said he was looking for a specific payment, So I said "Great how much and will lead you in the right direction." and he says "As low as possible" WTH??!?!? Is that specific? So I start busting up laughing and he gets all mad and tells his friend that I am laughing at him and I said "Sir, low as possible can be $600, $400 $500 for what ever car you are looking for." Then he tells me that he is looking for a $300 dollar a month payment with 3k down which is about a $17-18 car, Which well with out sounding snobby......WE ARE A FREAKING AUDI STORE! So I show him a 2002 green one that was close, and he say "Oh no way it has to have this and that and this color and and this option" Awful picky for someone on beer budget. So we had a 04 model and he wanted to negotiate on the lot on a car that was 6 grand out of his budget. And he said "Well I can buy an o3 for $13,900." I was just over the rudeness, and ignorance, and I said "Wow that sounds like a great deal, I guess I will be seeing at our service department pretty soon......"

1racefan

"Then he tells me that he is looking for a $300 dollar a month payment with 3k down which is about a $17-18 car"

Well, since he is obviously a payment buyer - I would assume him saying $300 as his initial offer, this would be his lowball offer. Don't you think you probably could have even bumped him up to $400, and squeezed $3000-$5000 out of him as his down payment, and still made a sale - Or do you think this guy was just that hopeless?

kyfdx

For $4K down and $400/month, he could lease a new Audi..

1racefan

True, but my point was that his initial payment offer was probably not truly his maximum. As a buyer, I will typically lowball on my first offer (I offer OTD, and not by payment). After all, you will never know if you don't ask.

bigdveedubgirl

Well I showed him a few other cars and worked extended term financing and it was $375 for 72 months on a Nice CPO 03. He would not do a balloon and he would not waver from 3-325 a month. I did not completely broom him, I gave him several options.

kyfdx

Maybe it was the laughing part? Guys that drive pickup trucks don't like to be laughed at by girls.. :surprise:

1racefan

"Well I showed him a few other cars and worked extended term financing and it was $375 for 72 months on a Nice CPO 03"

SHEESH- just think in the year 2010, he would still have 2 years worth of payments at $375/mo on a 7 year old (at the time) Audi - unreal.

armydave

The GAVE price was $500.00 The secretary told them they were giving away too much and they would have to order her to type up the paperwork. That was a long time ago. That was the GUI interface which Apple developed into what it is today.

bigdveedubgirl

Pickup trucks are FORDS, CHEVY"S and DODGES. NISSAN trucks are a car with an open Trunk!!! HEE HEE

Kirstie_H

Ooooooh. I like that. I will use it and claim it as my own

dreasdad

Toyota is a pickup truck, mine has picked up plenty of Dodge,Chevy's and Fords broken down on the side of the road!!!!!

sky23213

Indeed.
And he might not make it that far. He'll have a fit at the price of regular maintenance, will take any shortcut in doing it, and I've heard Audis don't like that. (A friend of mine has an A8, does all of his maintenance at an indi that works only on Audis and MB - his description of a tranny flush was amazing; a 79.99 flush w/coupon on a car like that would pretty much do it in.)

...just think in the year 2010...

And at around that time he'll be telling everyone what kind of crap Audis are. I believe part of the "low reliability" numbers on MB and similar is due to undermaintenance by payment buyers...

marsha7

I never heard before... "I did not completely broom him"... I assume that means you did not brush him out the door...I could use that with my clients..."Well, after listening to their ridiculous case that they thought was worth millions, at least I did not broom them, but I gently referred them to the attorney down the street, so they can waste HER time like they wasted mine..."...:):):):):)

phinneas519

When it's necessary to overmaintain (as opposed to the average vehicle) a car as a part of regular maintenance, it should make a person wonder. Personally, it makes me wonder how good these cars are if they require such extensive, costly maintenance just to be roadworthy. Is it substandard parts? One could only assume so. I have no idea why German vehicles enjoy such a sterling reputation, though it has declined somewhat, when their vehicles are such attention mongers. Bear in mind, I do understand the need for thorough and strict maintenance for performance-oriented AMG MBs, but for the average ones, most Audis or VWs, I fail to understand why they need (or deserve) so much more attention.

kdhspyder

You just dated yourself by refering to the computer in 2001, a Space Odyssey ( required automotive content )

dino001

It's simple - performance costs. Formula One engines last one or two 2-3 hour races plus training and qualifications, yet nobody complains they are unreliable or too expensive. Everybody knows if you want to get maximum, it will cost you longevity.

In case of German cars, I think the problem is twofold: First is the objective: they don't design them to "just work" or the car "just move". It is supposed to be moving in certain prescribed fashion. To achieve it their designs become complex and vulnerable to failure.
Second is probable use of inferior components, especially in area of electrical and electronic systems. It is likely to be misplaced cost-cutting measures that bite back, as electronics are driving everything, but are not up to the task by their poor execution.

I've said it before - it is probably the greatest marketing achievement on part of companies like Benz or Land Rover: sell experimental and unproven stuff at a price if it was full value by calling it "cutting edge".

lrguy44

As a Land Rover Sales Guide I have done many things to make it right for my customer. So my wife (who will not drive SUVs) has an 05 Acura TL. Recently, the imprint of the passenger side SRS frame is showing thru the top of the dash. No problem, I figure, Acura will make it right. So yesterday I call to sked a LOF and rotation and mention the SRS problem to the service advisor who knows I am in the biz. He says that Acura says the imprint is "normal" and they are not fixing them. Before I can react, he provides the Client Services phone number. I call and the rep says there is a fix. Acura will provide a kit to treat the dash to make it shiny again so the imprint does not show. I ask for how long. He says "3 months and Acura will provide the kit as long as the car is in warranty". So I say, a $35k car is "fixed" with mop and glow. So I discuss the problem at length with an area rep and he says even a new dash won't solve the problem. I let my German decent and retired Naval Officer personality get going and I have an appointment with the regional service rep next week. So much for Japanese quality and customer service. Glad I work for Rover!

skierx420

Thats great. I think that this Iowa boy needs to broom a few people once in a while. I never heard that expression before out here in the sticks.

lrguy44

With a large mall just down the street and shoppers just stopping to get a ride on our off road course, brooming becomes an art during the holidays

plekto

$300*60 plus $2K is $20,000, which is about $17K plus interest. I'm not surprized he balked at your offer. Though, his tactics were rubbish, I'll admit. He should just go to his credit union and come in with a check for $16-17K instead.

lrguy44

Like the credit union is interest free? 17k plus taxes in our area at 6.9% x 60 months = $3500 in finance charge

skierx420

I work for a very small dealership. We have 8 to 15 new cars, trucks, vans, and SUV's on hand and maybe 25 to 40 used vehicles running the gammit from back row beauties to the nice CPOV found at any other large dealership. We seem to have a problem finding good detailers. We pay a decent wage and provide full-time benifits to these guys/gals but can't seem to get any good ones. I really struggle to understand why that when I inspect the vehicle and must return it to the wash bay to be redone because they have missed a LARGE spot, or failed to get all of the wax off, or left HUGE streaks on the windshield. Beyond giving them spiffs (that has not helped) do you have any other ideas to motivate them without having the bossman always having to ride them all the time. Most of the poor jobs occur when the old man (as the boss is called by detailers) when he is gone on a dealer trade, meeting, etc. I know I'm just the lowly salesperson and have no real authority over them beyond the fact that it is MY customers vehicle. That being said I do have one wonderful detailer that always does a great job when he is working but he is not full time. Any suggestions?

bigdveedubgirl

Our store is going thru the same right now. What I would do, is WEAR the ones who are not doing their job out. Nitpick the cars and send them back each time they do a bad job and tell them to do it again or to fix each problem. Then they will start doing a good job, or they will quit. No big loss, then find someone who is willing to work and money is their motivation. Recruit from your local car wash. IF there is someone there that pays attention to detail and does a good job every time you come in, him or her would jump at the chance to work at store like yours because they are making minimum wage + tips and no benefits. If the people who are there are there justto make a paycheck or a student, they probably do not care. IF they are there to support their family they will do what ever they can to make the most money possible. I hope this helped.

jipster

Any suggestions?

You could smear some cow dung and mud around on a vehicle they have just detailed. Then get the boss out and show him what a "crappy" job they are doing. Threaten to do this every time they present an unacceptable vehicle.

But seriously, you'll have to get the detailers to either like you more or fear you. Sounds like you've never sat down with them and explained in a calm rational manner that you would appreciate it if they were a little more "detail" oriented in their detailing... for the sake of the dealership. If that doesn't work I suppose you'll have to be a tattletail to get some results and/or send everything back that has the slightest blemish.

tidester

We pay a decent wage and provide full-time benifits to these guys/gals but can't seem to get any good ones.

Perhaps "a decent wage" is in the eye of the beholder? Just a thought.

tidester, host

plekto

Get someone who's not a bottom-feeder or illegal immigrant or whatnot - but a decent guy right out of college who understands cars.

Pay him to do it full-time. At least 24K a year so he can live off of it.($8 an hour wont cut it, sorry) He can also double as the person who drives the cars around the lot/service area if you need him to do something.

Look - I can detail cars perfectly. Takes about two hours a car, but so be it - 4 a day, clean as you can imagine - AND waxed and the rims polished and so on. Not waxed?, maybe an hour per car. Fear won't work here - you need to find someone with the skills.

lrguy44

Your store is not alone - if you were a larger store you could pay on piece rate (per car) and not pay on a bad job. I have found that honey gets more than wrath - but the problem never goes away. Good luck

jb_turner

Just trade jobs with the detailer.

jipster

Fear won't work here

I think for most people, fear of losing their job would have some motivating factor to improve performance.

Now, if the detailers aren't making jack, if they can get a similar job at the same pay with little or no effort, or they feel okay with drawing unemployment for 6 months... then there is no fear factor involved.

Maybe treat one to lunch once a month at the Hooters across the street?

british_rover

I buy a six pack of beer for my guys every once a while. I know the brand that each one likes and just drop it on their bench sometime during the day.

graphicguy

yeah...definitely a case of "getting what you pay for" when using detailers.

The guy I use details cars for one of the biggest independent leasing agents in the area. He details the cars at lease inception and again, at the time the leased vehicle is turned in (for the cars to be sold by the leasing company).

He does a wail of a business.....probably 8-10 cars/day....6 days/week...all kinds of weather.

Since I've been with him a while, he details my cars about 3-4 times/year. He usually charges between $100-$150 per vehicle, depending on its size. He charges me his "lease company rate", which is $85/vehicle.

No automatic car washes, either. It's all done by hand using cotton washmitts/towels. He makes the interior smell nice...gets rid of any interior stains...waxes the outside by hand (I provide my own preferred wax). It takes him 90-120 minutes/vehicle for a total detail and about 45 minutes for an in/out wash. He does use professional machine "buffers", though. I couldn't do a better job myself, he's so meticulous.

If you're paying someone $10, even $15/hour, you aren't going to get much in the way of a quality job.

On a straight wash, he charges me $20...exterior and interior....not much more than going through one of the fancy "drive-through" washes. He's got 5-6 employees and 3 garage bays.

Nice business that he keeps growing. Quality work done by a quality person and his staff.

mikefm58

Think of it now, is detailing cars a life long job? Would you want that as a career, even assuming it does pay a decent wage, which I doubt would be considered a "living" wage. Have you thought of making the positions part time? I know lots of dependable people who wouldn't mind making $10 an hour working 15-20 hours a week and don't need benefits.

madmanmoo

Most detailers make good money. I know several guys who are career detailers and they are making 65k - 70k/yr. I think that's definitely liveable income.

-Moo

jipster

Detailing a car, and doing a good job, is hard work. But, roughly $75 an hour for unskilled labor?? No way.

madmanmoo

But, roughly $75 an hour for unskilled labor??

Unskilled? Jipster, detailing is an art form. There are many people out there who want to look good and are willing to pay for it.

How about 6k for some bling bling wheels? I wouldn't do it, but there are a ton of folks who love 'em.

-Moo

jlawrence01

Detailing a car, and doing a good job, is hard work. But, roughly $75 an hour for unskilled labor?? No way.


Unskilled in YOUR eyes.

Putting up drywall is another "unskilled" position. That is until you see a real professional do it and compare it to your average DYI job.

Granted, I wouldn't pay $75 an hour for that service.

graphicguy

jipster....While I wouldn't clasify a "detailer" as an "artiste", a good one is hard to find.

As moo points out, there's a big difference between a good one and a mediocre one. As they say, the devil is in the details. That's what good detailers bring to the table. They go that extra mile to do a good job. The good ones get all the water out of the inevitable "nooks and crannies" of the car so it doesn't drip when you drive away. The good ones get the dust out of the HVAC vents. The good ones don't leave dirt in the far reaches of alloy wheels.

That's what sets them apart. My guy loves cars. He loves clean cars. He owns a 6 year old Mercedes coupe that looks like it's straight off the showroom floor. That's his calling card. Anyone that goes to his shop wondering what kind of job he does, he points to his Benz.

He started out about 7 years ago with a flyer...advertising his services to my business office complex. He had no customers, just a good service for washing/waxing cars. He hustled...getting just a few cars/week. Went to every dealership in the area (which most thought to be too expensive). But, by doing an excellent job on those few customers, via word of mouth, high line dealerships started throwing business his way. Then came the more "run of the mill" dealerships, who recommended their customers to use his services.

Now, he's probably pulling down 6 figures every year.

Just goes to show....hard work...good product/service...quality work...trumps everything else in our country.

He built the biz from very humble beginnings.

Given the choice of having a mediocre car wash at $12-$15, I'll choose him for $20 because he's so much better. Using the wax I prefer (Zaino or Collinite), a detail wax job, for $85, will last 6-8 months.

You get what you pay for.

carhag2000

I buy a six pack of beer for my guys every once a while. I know the brand that each one likes and just drop it on their bench sometime during the day

I recently won a shotgun in a raffle. Not being a hunter, I brought it in, put all of my mechanics, service writers and lot techs names into a hat and gave it away. I truly like/respect these guys because they are doing a difficult, thankless job. If the guys in back realize that I am not just some good looking guy in a suit ( although I am) but a co-worker, they give extra effort for me and my customers.

grandtotal

If the guys in back realize that I am not just some good looking guy in a suit ( although I am)

Does that fall into the same category as "everyone thinks their trade-in is in excellent condition"?

Kirstie_H

He's on the internet, where we are all good-looking, thin, and highly intelligent. Oh, and of course wealthy to boot.

carhag2000

He's on the internet, where we are all good-looking, thin, and highly intelligent. Oh, and of course wealthy to boot
Hey my mom says I'm a handsome boy!

jneal

"Yeah the first computer I worked on (about 1987 too) we upgraded to a whopping 40 meg hard drive and a 640K RAM plus we had two floppy drives."

Not to date myself but how about first computer a Commodore Vic-20....and yes it had a cassette tape drive..
And then we went first class and got a Radio Shack TRS-80!!

plekto

My first computer I ever used was a PET - miserable thing with 8K on it and a 4bit processor(4404 IIRC)

Tape drives were a godsend back then - I mean, you could store about 2-300K on a goot 90 minute tape.

grandtotal

I'm fairly sure it was an 8-bit 6502. the sort of processor which found it's way into cars of that era. (Desperate attempt to veer slightly on topic).