Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog

"...and vegetated on the couch for a couple of hours."

Had I attempted that feat, I would have been in a permanent vegetated state. :P Seriously, you are to be commended for your valuable service. I know the young minister was very grateful to have your assistance.

Richard

tjc78

and the lousy R 134 freon

Yeah, its safer for the ozone, but... Case in point. I had an 89 Grand Marquis that still ran on the original R12 and was pretty much a freezer. Fast forward a few years and I had an 89 Town Car (same A/C system) that was converted to R134. It was still adequate but not nearly as good as the same system running R12.

snakeweasel

The city was going to grind up the trees but they needed to be moved to the spot where the chipper was located.

Wouldn't it been easier to move the chipper to where the trees were?

driver100

Wouldn't it been easier to move the chipper to where the trees were?

Only a logical thinking accountant would think of that.

graphicguy

craig....I never understood why those Reattas weren't a hit in the marketplace. IMHO, that was one of two designs if that period (the other being the Riviera) that were beautiful for their time (even today I still like them).

Plus, all of the "techno" packed into them was way ahead of their time. I only got to drive a friends convertible Reatta, but remembered it was quite nice in the day.

Don't know why but Buick just could not sell them.

I came mighty close to buying a supercharged Riviera about 15 years ago. Another sharp, good performing car.

jmonroe

I'll tell you what, I wanted Corian but am sooooooooo happy my GF wanted the granite. Its the first thing people notice in our kitchen. We even went up the backsplash with it. The installers (from Poland) said that is very European. We just liked the way it looked.

We got the black granite top with the triple edge design when we did the kitchen redo in January 2010 and as far as I’m concerned all of the hullabaloo over granite is way over done. Mrs. j liked it a lot at first, now she tends to agree with me but she does like the triple edge. No question about that. She chose a contrasting tile for the backsplash, not cheap at all, and now she thinks she should have chosen a different colored tile. Everyone that walks into the kitchen seems to like it but she’s not convinced that she chose the right stuff even with all of the time spent on choosing it.

We must have gone to the tile store three times and the last time we were there I distinctly remember suggesting that we buy a few pieces of the different tiles that she was considering (not just the samples that they always let you take home to help you confuse yourself) and that I would put them up temporarily with something (didn’t really know exactly how I was going to do this) but where there is a will there is away. The woman that was helping us, looked at me like I had two heads and said, “I never heard of anyone doing that before but I guess it would work. If you don’t ruin the tiles that you don’t want you can bring them back for credit. So, maybe you should do that”. Even if I did ruin them what’s the big deal? We’re in so deep with this redo, it’s not like a couple tiles are going to keep me up at night. Mrs. j says, “nah, this is the one I want. I’m sure, so lets go with this”. Of course, “while we were at it” we got the stainless appliances too. I’ll admit that she does like these but every once in a while when she’s tired and sees a smudge on one of them she’s says, “these things are a pain to keep clean”.

I'll tell you this...everything’s staying, believe me.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Only a logical thinking accountant would think of that.

Not positive about this but it probably has something to do with the union.

jmonroe

mako1a

something to do with the union

More like Murphy's Law

86% of trees felled land where intended.

The rest land on the most expensive item (ie the chipper).

tjc78

we got the stainless appliances too. I’ll admit that she does like these but every once in a while when she’s tired and sees a smudge on one of them she’s says, “these things are a pain to keep clean”.


I'm a clean freak and can tell you that stainless appliances are the equivalent of a black car..... looks great when clean (which is about 5 minutes).

I remember shopping for the appliances and the salesman telling me that the fridge came standard with the "faux stainless" or "stainless look" and that real stainless was an upgrade. Well, like a dumba$$ I said "I want real stainless" only to find out the fake stuff is much easier to keep.

with the triple edge design

We paid extra for an ogee (sp) edge and are happy we did it. Just looks a lot classier. Our kitchen is small, so the price difference was minimal and well worth it.

sterlingdog

I thought that we were the only ones who felt that way about the granite. It really is over rated IMHO. Our kitchen is 18 x 10 with a breakfast nook that is 16 x 14. I don't know why the builder put so much space in the kitchen area. With the L-shaped counter and an island that is 5 ft. x 2.5 ft., we had to purchase a lot of granite. With the over bite of the granite extending into the sink, it's difficult to keep clean. The seamless Corian would have been a better choice for us.

As for appliances, we went with the black because of the black granite. We are forever glad that we did. My sister warned us about the stainless steel---constant cleaning to remove the prints. I believe that it's GE that makes a nice "fake" stainless steel. Some friends chose that and swear that finger prints are never a problem. Looking at their appliances, you would never know that they aren't the "real" thing.

Regarding the tiles for the back splash, we did what you thought about doing. We purchased six large tiles in different colors and mulled over them for a week. We didn't attach them to the wall; we just leaned them against it. I suppose it helped. We still went with our first choice that we saw in the store. Everyone likes our kitchen, but personally I could take it or leave it. As you say, everything is staying!

Richard

isellhondas

Reattas were assembled on a seperate assembly line by a special group of people. They were very expensive. Over 30,000 dollars at that time.

People liked them but for the same or less money they could buy a Cadillac, or a Porsche.

I have never driven a car as quiet as the Reatta. There are no rattles or squeaks. Smooth as glass with the 3800 engine.

sterlingdog

You know how much I like a black car, but you are correct---a devil to keep clean. Half way through our trip, it looked as if it had had a mud bath. Just getting it washed made me feel so much better. I find that at home it does pretty well because we keep it in the garage when not in use. It is definitely not a car to leave out in the open. It does look beautiful when it is clean.

Richard

qbrozen

When I worked in kitchen design, I always suggested the composite counters over granite. My reasons being zero maintenance and it is repairable. Granted, its very rare and very difficult to damage granite, but its been done and there is no good fix. Folks rarely heeded my advice.

Flash forward a few years and I'm redoing our kitchen in our home. What did we get? Granite. Why? Wife. She didn't like the way any of the composite choices looked. The granite has been fine, but I hate having a special cleaner for it and that its not perfectly smooth.

gogiboy

"Reattas were assembled on a seperate assembly line by a special group of people."

Were they "special" because GM said so or was it the assemblers' moms who collectively said, "my child is special, so I told the execs at GM to let him/her work on Reattas this month?"

Significant hand-built assembly is supposedly in my MR2 as well. Much of the work was outsourced by Toyota to Yamaha. There may be some truth to the claim as the fit and finish and materials rival newer and more expensive cars and is easily several notches above my wife's Scion.

Makes you wonder if soon the car maker's will be claiming that the car was entirely made by robots and thus free of human inconsistencies and errors (except whatever error might have been accidentally programmed into the robots). Instead of blaming the blue collar worker we'll be bad mouthing the programming geek for whatever flaws show up.

Gogiboy

gogiboy

"When I worked in kitchen design, I always suggested the composite counters over granite."

g-- do you mean Quartz? That's what we have and we couldn't be happier. Five years old and not one problem. Doesn't stain like granite, comes in big pieces thus limiting seams and is really tough. Once every year or so we put some of the manufacturer's polish on it. The installer cut out the sink hole, shape and bullnose edge using a high pressure, laser guided water jet. Is that pretty standard these days?

Gogiboy

sterlingdog

"...but I hate having a special cleaner for it..."

The cleaner smells like gasoline to me. They say fresh; I say bunk!

Richard

sterlingdog

Isn't the Quartz cheaper? I've seen some of that work and it's pretty.

Richard

jmonroe

I thought that we were the only ones who felt that way about the granite.

We seem to think alike on quite a few things. Maybe it’s our age and that’s why we don’t buy into all the hype on a lot of things.

I believe that it's GE that makes a nice "fake" stainless steel. Some friends chose that and swear that finger prints are never a problem.

The first I heard about the “fake” stainless was a years ago and Kenmore was the one that had it. We would have gone with the “fake” but the appliances we chose (2 different) brands (Kenmore and Samsung) didn’t offer it in the models we wanted. Mrs. jmonroe watches HGTV a LOT and she said the latest thinking about appliances today, by these self appointed experts, is that you should get the same brand for everything. That way all the displays are the same color. We didn’t bite on that one but the salesman at Sears said, “a lot of buyers fall for that thinking”. I’m not the least bit sorry about this but my profession says, “form follows function” and it’s too late for me to change now. Mrs. j says I’m too practical but she seems to have picked up this bad habit herself.

It really is over rated IMHO.

You’re more politically correct than I am. In my not so humble opinion we have had this granite thing rammed down our throats so much that if we don’t “do it in granite” we must be a bunch of yokels’. We plan to stay in our home for the duration but given the current thought about kitchen redo’s, if we were going to sell our home and the kitchen needed an update to help sell the house, I’d give them what they wanted and go with granite.

I can see it all now…by the time we sell, Formica will be “in” again because granite “dates” a house. :mad:

jmonroe

qbrozen

I wasn't referring to the Quartz. Although that is good for no maintenance, it can't be repaired I don't believe.

I was referring to ... for some reason, the generic word is escaping me right now ... but Corian is one of the brands, among others.

driver100

Not positive about this but it probably has something to do with the union.

Good thinking, only an engineer could think of that!

That's a good guess though. The company I used to work for put paperback books in grocery stores. We could put up new books and take out old ones in half an hour.
Some were union stores though. In those we had to tell the union guy which books to pull off, which books to put on, and where to put them. Took an hour and a half!
Makes a lot of sense :sick:

qbrozen

that you should get the same brand for everything. That way all the displays are the same color. We didn’t bite on that one but the salesman at Sears said, “a lot of buyers fall for that thinking”.

That completely depends on the color you choose. I don't exactly know what you mean by display, but as for the face color and trim, it does vary by manufacturer ... again, depending on color. Whites are typically white and blacks are typically blacks. But the same is not true of Stainless and off-white (or bisque or biscuit). You can kind of cheat on stainless. We did (kenmore stove and dishwasher with frigidaire fridge and freezer) but the appliances aren't near each other. Bisque, however, can vary greatly and mixing and matching usually doesn't work out.

jmonroe

Makes a lot of sense

Not really but it does make for jobs.

I'm not anti-union until I hear things like this. That and the way they damn near killed the American auto industry.

jmonroe

jmonroe

I don't exactly know what you mean by display,…

I’m talking about the digital read-out. Not all of the digital lights are the same color (some greenish, some blue). If you want to see an example of this, come to our kitchen. :sick:

but as for the face color and trim, it does vary by manufacturer ... again, depending on color. Whites are typically white and blacks are typically blacks. But the same is not true of Stainless and off-white (or bisque or biscuit).

I was taught a lesson about mixing/matching colors of appliances. The dishwasher we had was only a year and a half old and I suggested that we might be able to get away with it because it was well removed from the other appliances (I was just kidding). Well, you’d have thought I was talking about wearing brown pants with black shoes or worse.

jmonroe

qbrozen

I actually changed the face and control panel of our dishwasher to black/stainless. I believe it cost me less than $200 as opposed to a minimum of $800 for a new one. But, like I said, in my case, it was already Kenmore and so was the new stove, so it worked out. And my wife's craziness can be tempered a bit where a 75% discount is involved.

tjc78

Its too funny that the debate of the brand of appliances came up here. The kitchen I remodeled earlier in the year is a small space (10 x 13). The one thing I insisted was having all the same brand (and series) of appliances. Since they are all so close to one another I wanted the displays, logos, handles, etc to match.

My GF thought I was crazy, but when you look at the microwave, stove and fridge all on one wall its nice that everything integrates.

Kirstie_H

A whopping discount tempers me in a heartbeat. I will go ask if the store has any leftovers of "last year's model" on just about anything... as if I could tell the difference between this year & last year if you put them side by side. Got a sweet deal on a king mattress set one time by asking - they'd changed the mattress color from white to off-white, as if I cared.

There seem to be quite a few kits that allow you to change appliance exterior colors. Never tried any of them, but sounds like that's what you did.

Our dishwasher, on the other hand, needs a lot more than a color change. I'd be happy with it as-is if any of the bonus features worked... such as actually cleaning dishes. I'm pretty cheap-o when it comes to items that aren't 100% necessary, but this DW might be entering the twilight of its life.

graphicguy

Didn't know that about the Reattas having a separate assembly area. I didn't know they were that costly (at that time), either. Cool cars!

Finally had the chance to take the BMW on a nice mini-road trip through Amish country (Adams County, OH). Plenty of twisties and pretty drive. Fun time. The car ate it up and I could not upset it, no matter what.

According to the trip computer, I got 23.8 MPG on what essentially was a 150 mile trip that included some interstate, some spirited back road driving, and some in-town cruising. Pretty good!

isellhondas

If you "google" Buick Reatta there is quite a bit of information there.

They came with a leather pouch with the owner's manual and a Reatta pen and tire guage. They also came with a signed form by the guys who built it.

I have the pouch, manual and pen but not the rest of the stuff.

I bought it from a Boeing Engineer who had owned it for seven years. He bought it from a guy in his mid 80's who belonged to the Buick Club.

They aren't worth a lot of money but they are, indeed, unique and you won't see many of them.

Funny though, last week I had the replacement CD player yanked out and I had the oriiginal factory unit reinstalled. By rare chance, the installer owned a Reatta!. It was sitting there.

Of course, when I tried the cassette player, it promptly jammed and now the radio won't work and I can't get the damm tape back out to save my life!

tjc78

Isell,

You can have those radios rebuilt and even have an AUX input added so you can use an Ipod or portable XM/Sirius receiver.

I think there are people on Ebay, who do it. You send them your core and get a refurbished unit.

Another thing is to try and get a CD version from a newer GM. The wiring harnesses stayed the same for a good # of years.

qbrozen

There seem to be quite a few kits that allow you to change appliance exterior colors. Never tried any of them, but sounds like that's what you did.

Nope. Wasn't a kit. I bought the OEM parts from repairclinic.com. Long story short, the dishwasher needed parts anyway because it was a "damaged goods pallet" I bought on ebay years ago right from a Sears warehouse where it had been hit by a forklift. The dishwasher door was dinged up and the panel was cracked. But it was a $1000 dishwasher. Had it sitting in my garage, unused, in my old house. Brought it along to the new house and put it in that garage until the remodel.

Also wound up with a Sony Wega TV on that same pallet that had been dropped on its back. Tube was fine, but 2 small internal boards were broken. Cost me all of $37 for the 2 boards and we had a nice bedroom TV for about 4-5 years till I replaced it with an LCD.

mac24

Makes you wonder if soon the car maker's will be claiming that the car was entirely made by robots.......

That was the advertising campaign for the Fiat Strada; "Hand Built By Robots".

Either the robots weren't paid enough or they weren't given the proper motivational programming, because the cars they produced were significantly poorer in quality than other Fiats...........and that's saying something! :sick:

Strada Ad

michaellno

Since we're on the topic of home improvements, we're about ready to pull the trigger on new flooring.

A bit of history -- we bought the house new 11 years ago, so we picked all the interior surfaces - countertops, cabinets, flooring. We chose a color I can best describe as "Cherry Chocolate" for our carpet.

Fast forward about 7-8 years .. carpet is starting to look worn, so we decide to replace it. Go with a company that advertises heavily on TV - they come to the house, show us their wares, and we make a deal. Carpet gets installed in 2 days.

Turns out the carpet is junk. We've only had it about 3-4 years, and it looks awful in some of our high traffic areas, even after a professional steam cleaning. Wife hates it, complains about it pretty much every day. Plus, we owned both dogs and cats, and it turns out the cats disliked us so much for bringing the dogs into the house that they ruined one room via urination. (Cats are no longer part of the picture).

We replaced the carpet in the two bedrooms upstairs with a product that is much more durable and pet friendly.

The wife wants to go with hard surfaces downstairs, and recarpet the stairs and bedrooms upstairs to match the two bedrooms we did a couple of years ago.

So, we head back to the flooring store and find a product (faux slate, basically) that we'll put in downstairs. Easy to clean and maintain, so sayeth the salespeople. We're on a slab, so this hard surface will be installed right onto concrete.

Just getting a few last questions answered before we go forward with this. The main problem seems to be that every exit from the house will be under construction at the same time, so how will that work with the dogs? We shall see.

Regarding granite countertops -- the wife and I have talked about the problem we're facing with the new flooring -- mainly, that it will make the rest of the house look bad by comparison. We picked a tile color and pattern that should match the existing woodwork, but we'll see how it goes.

For our house, it would seem silly to install granite, since our neighborhood is mainly 'entry level' houses and using such a high-end product would almost be 'over improving' the house. Not sure we'd ever recoup our investment there.

tjc78

For our house, it would seem silly to install granite, since our neighborhood is mainly 'entry level' houses and using such a high-end product would almost be 'over improving' the house. Not sure we'd ever recoup our investment there.

I don't know about that. If anything it would make your house more appealing to a buyer, and sell quicker. If you have no plans on selling, even more reason as the money you spend will be spread out over several years.

I live in a fairly modest older neigborhood full of mostly 50s Ranchers/Cape Cods. When doing the kitchen the granite cost maybe 12/1500 more than Formica. I think that if I was selling, it would be a great selling point.

PS... I have no intentions of selling because I bought in 05 and would probably have a tough time breaking even (especially with the improvements I've put in over the last six years) :sick:

As for your new floors, good luck with the project. It sounds like your floor is a floating style laminate. If it is, make sure the installer uses some sort of foam underlayment (or that the floor has it attached). The laminate I put in the kitchen had the underlayment already attached.

sterlingdog

Michael, if you want some great looking counter tops that look like granite, but cost one fourth the price, check out Wilsonart. They make the best looking laminates that I have ever seen. Back in 1992, we used Wilsonart Laminate in a kitchen redo. Friends and family kept asking, "Is that Corian?" It was really beautiful. On a recent trip to Lowe's, I stopped by the Wilsonart display just to look at the new samples. Their "granite look-a-likes" are very impressive. I'm thinking about using one of the samples for our bar redo in our Florida room. Even my picky wife said, "Why do the bar in granite when you can buy this stuff?" Wilsonart even makes a bar sink that I could use with the laminate. For the price, they make really nice looking materials. Good luck with the flooring. I love a slate look.

Richard

tjc78

Richard, does WilsonArt make a solid surface (Corian) material? If so, I've seen people do laminate w/matching solid surface edges. This avoids the "black line" on the edge of the counter-top that many people find objectionable.

mac24

For our house, it would seem silly to install granite, since our neighborhood is mainly 'entry level' houses and using such a high-end product would almost be 'over improving' the house.

While I understand that large areas of custom countertop can be expensive, smaller items in standard sizes can be reasonably priced.

In the guest bathroom I've just replaced a rather nasty three foot laminate vanity countertop and inset basin with a beige granite top finished with an ogee front edge and a white undermounted ceramic basin, for less than $200 from Home Depot.

driver100

r, I got 23.8 MPG on what essentially was a 150 mile trip

I was told and it happened with my BMW...mileage went up even more after 12000 miles. All of a sudden something clicks in and mileage goes up 2 or 3 miles a gallon.

But 24 mpg with 300 hps isn't too bad at all.

roadburner

Wouldn't it been easier to move the chipper to where the trees were?

Yes, except for the fact that the trees were located between a narrow foot path and a riverbank; the truck towing the chipper could only get within @150 feet of the work site.

kyfdx

Haven't picked out kitchen material since we built our house in 1998, but got a couple things..

We have solid-surface veneer counters... It's the Corian material, but just 1/8" thick.. so, they build a normal top, just like they were doing laminate, but they use the veneer... It's just like the full thickness solid surface, in that there are no seams, etc... The edge is full thickness Corian, so that you can't tell. Ours has a simple beveled edge, as once you get into really fancy edges, you lose a lot of the price differential... If I remember correctly, the solid surface veneer was about 65% of the cost of full solid surface..

Now....that said, if I were recommending something, I'd say get granite.. Even for an "entry-level" house... The first thing anyone says when they enter a kitchen with granite is, "Nice granite".. If your hotel room has a granite sink top, and Norman Bates in the shower, it will still be, "Ooohh... granite...." When you sell, it will make a real difference..

We have a combination of black and stainless steel appliances.. Stainless fridge and dishwasher... and black wall oven/microwave stack, with a black solid electric cooktop. Mostly because in 1998, finding a stainless wall oven/microwave combo was almost impossible... I find those blend well together.. If I started over, I'd probably go all black... It's a nice contrast with our natural maple cabinets...

That's all I have on kitchens.... lol

sterlingdog

Yes, they do. They are manufactured with acrylic resins in 55 colors and designs. You have an excellent idea that would really save some money.

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...Regarding granite countertops..."

I'm with you. Perhaps it is my contrarian nature that makes me not want the lattest fad home decor but the way I look at it, if I wanted rock countertops I'd go live in a cave.

Besides, what happens when the fad changes to some other material? Did you ever think how hard it will be to haul that stuff out?

driver100

Besides, what happens when the fad changes to some other material? Did you ever think how hard it will be to haul that stuff out?

There's a thought. Dump sites full of blocks of old granite! :sick:

We have quite a bit of granite but I like the older solid colored counters. Granite has too many imperfections....because it is natural I guess. Our last home had white with silver flecks all evenly applied. It looked cleaner and neater.....except you had to be careful handling knives and hot pots.

im_brentwood

Customer was in earlier...

2008 ES350, accident on carfax, the car had been hit real hard, replaced quarter, trunk floor had been worked, etc. No nav, 40k miles.

Customer wanted $26k on trade for it. I think I figured the car for $19k.

Customer claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, etc.. the usual. So I point to the PERFECT 29k mile Pearl White one w/ Navi that I have on the lot.

That I had $26,995 on.

fezo

OK, I'll give you $15 for it - the perfect one that is.....

sterlingdog

Good for you! What some people envision as a rose is actually a weed.

Richard

sterlingdog

How was your trip? How are you feeling?

Richard

gogiboy

"Isn't the Quartz cheaper? I've seen some of that work and it's pretty."

Richard--

Quartz comes in a surprising range of colors/patterns (including ones that mimic granite) as there are at least a handful of companies making it. Depending on who makes it the cost is comparable to Granite. If you believe Consumer's Report (and I know plenty here don't) it's the best material overall in terms to resistance to stains, heavy blows, scratching, etc. My wife loves what we agreed upon although I would have been much happier with formica and the bill for formica. You could redo your formica kitchen counters probably five or six times for the price of granite, quartz, concrete or the other in vogue materials.

I agree with you about Corian and the other solid surface materials. They're best if you want an absolutely seamless surface.

Gogiboy

fezo

The trip was great. We went up in my brother's Saab convertible. Going up it was just too hot (over 100 the whole way) and we had to have the top up - something I would rarely do and my brother would never do.

We spent the time helping my brother up there and his fellow teachers in the Exeter Academy summer school celebrate the end of summer sessions which involved a very nice scotch tasting event Saturday night.

I dropped some items on my brother and he dropped some on me (these are things from my folks place that landed with the wrong brother). The two brothers up there along with a friend who is a brother just not related by blood rode their bikes 41 miles on Saturday in that heat! I sat back in the apartment and napped and read.

Trip back it was in the high 80s and the top was down the entire trip to NJ. What a nice car! Not doing anything about a car until I am on the other side of my transplant but I could buy that and not mind at all! Of course I'll also look at your favorite - the Solara convertible....

isellhondas

Thanks for that info. I'll check that out!

driver100

PERFECT 29k mile Pearl White one w/ Navi that I have on the lot.
That I had $26,995 on.

3 Lexus with pretty low mileage all sound in pretty good condition, from $26k to $32k...on a dealers lot.
2008 Lexus ES350
Your price seems very reasonable, especially after I get my 10% Edmunds Sales Frontlines Discount.