Stories from the Sales Frontlines

nyccarguy

Hey there guys & gals. I got back from my yearly vacation this past Sunday and it has taken all this time just to catch up with what's going on here. We close our store the last 2 weeks of July every year. This year I spent 2 days the 1st week at Sesame Place with my wife, 2 boys, & my parents. Naturally we took our 2 month old 2011 Pilot on this short 115 mile, 4 state (CT, NY, NJ, PA) journey. I know it is nowhere near Richard's journey, but with 2 kids under 5 sometimes any ride over 25 minutes can be a challenge. The Pilot was comfortable and had no trouble keeping up with traffic on the Jersey Turnpike. We had no problems until I had to stop to pee at a rest stop. I park perfectly between the lines as always. Run into the rest area, do what I have to do, meet my wife and kids by the exit and we're on our way. So I thought.

I was loading my older son (He'll be 5 at the end of September) into his car seat on the driver's side. My Wife is loading our younger son (2 yrs 4 months) into his car seat on the passenger side of the car. I hear a scraping noise, and the Pilot move. I cringe and run to the other side of the car. Once I realize that my wife and son are OK, I asses the damage to the Pilot and see what happened.

My wife had the rear passenger door open and it was about an inch away from this older Jeep Grand Cherokee with Ohio Plates. This girl must have gotten into her Jeep and not seen our door open and just started to drive off. She stopped after driving about 6 inches, but the damage had been done. The right rear door of my 2011 Pilot now has a corner of the door sticking out. Not the end of the world. Nobody got hurt, but it made me mad.

The girl's reaction:

"Why was your door open against my car?"

My wife: "It wasn't. Just about an inch away."

Girl: "How does this work, will your insurance pay to fix my car?"

Me: "No, YOU hit a parked car and are liable for the damages. If anything your insurance should pay to fix my truck. It is only 2 months old."

Girl: "So what do we do now?"

Me: "We have to call the police and file and accident report. It will probably take them about 2 hours to get here."

Girl: "Ummmmm, I think I know somebody who can fix this."

Me, knowing that the damage to my Pilot is probably $1200 and my deductible is $1000, with 2 kids under 5 in the car wanting to go to Sesame Place: "OK, enjoy your trip."

It is going to cost me $800 to fix, nobody got hurt, & it will look like new again.

We also took the Pilot to Cape Cod. It swallowed all our stuff with no problem. I've got over 4500 miles on it (It'll be 3 months old on 8/19). I love it and am very happy with our purchase. I'm very disapointed in ther fuel economy.

I bought the Pilot because it is big, but I expected better from Honda as far as gas mileage goes. I usually get gas for my wife every week & she's been averaging between 15 & 15.5 MPG. The best I've done so far is just over 18 MPG - All highway, cruise set at 60.

michaellno

The best I've done so far is just over 18 MPG - All highway, cruise set at 60.

Yikes! Our CX-7 is averaging about 20 MPG total, with a mix of city, rural and highway driving. We saw close to 25 MPG on the highway - at 75-80 MPH.

Sorry to hear about your incident at the rest stop, but glad to know that it won't cost much to repair.

robr2

Hondas are notorious for taking their time to reach peak fuel efficiency. Wait until about 10K miles and you should see a difference.

That being said, my Odyssey gets about 17 city and 22 highway - right on the EPA numbers.

Kirstie_H

You forgot, "as long as you make at least $7 per week, no credit check required!"

Kirstie_H

Travel channel show premieres tonight called "Truck Stop Missouri." The truck stop they feature is owned & operated by one of my high school buddies, and is located 5 miles outside my home town. Should be fun, though it will certainly solidify the coast-dwellers' notion of what we here in the Midwest do for fun.

Here's the promo trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NOW4m9fOM

"We'll do anything to make money" about sums it up.

This is right off I-70, halfway between St. Louis & Kansas City, so if you have traveled that path, you've seen the truck stop.

fezo

Oh, dear...

And that's why they call it flyover country....

Not really. I've run into that sort of thing in parts of the country that people would still call the East Coast. I think I played cow pie bingo in New Jersey!

Rob - yeah, 17 and 22 is right on the nose for an Ody. I am so ready to move down in size...

graphicguy

nyc....so sorry about the door rash. That stuff makes me crazy....especially with someone who acts so clueless. As they say, stupid goes a lot deeper than skin deep.

If it makes you feel any better, my Tahoe would dip down to 13 MPG on occasion.

That gives way to kirstie's....ummmm...."friends" from that video.

All I can say is.......ummmmm......well......

I got nothin'!
:P

stickguy

every time I have to fill up the wifes gas swilling beast, or squeeze it in or out of the garage, I am so ready to downsize too.

Problem is, we still need something reasonably roomy, and with utility value. SO looking most likely at mid-size cross overs (say, a Santa Fe). And unless you get a 4 cyl FWD model (of the ones that come that way), you aren't getting much better than the MPG of the odyssey.

I'm hoping that the C maxx will work for her, but too bad it won't be available with a manual (yes, i realize I am nuts). The mazda 5 is a tough sell, being a minivan and all (not cool to my duaghther), and, well, fugly.

in the next 1.5 years, hopefully some new options that get respectable MPG come out to tickle her fancy.

qbrozen

We used to get 21mpg regularly in mixed driving (70% highway) in the wife's '03 Pilot. It was like that from new up until we traded it 50k miles later.

driver100

Girl: "How does this work, will your insurance pay to fix my car?"

Why does it always happen when you get a new car? Sorry to hear about the scrape job, but as you said, at least no one was injured, and that could easily have happened with that flake driving.

I am surprised at those gas mileage numbers. Even my 2000 Jeep Cherokee and the 2004 X3 got 22 mpg. We went to Ellicottville NY in the 2008 BMW 328 and averaged 30 mpg almost all highway driving. The Cabriolet doesn't have much room, but if the kids get noisy, just put the roof down and the noise from the wind will block out the sound of the kids.

I had the roof down on my way home from work the other day, on the highway. I couldn't see our 10 pound dog in the backseat so I got worrie that maybe she blew right out the back. I pulled over at my exit and she was crouched down on the floor, between the frontseat and backseat. It's cooler down there and out of the direct sun. I was glad she was there, that would be a hard one to explain to my wife.

driver100

"Truck Stop Missouri."

That looks like a real fun place to go! Too bad you didn't tell Richard about it before his marathon trip across the U.S.A. I think he would have loved staying there for at least one night, nothing like a game of cow paddy bingo to get the adrenilin going.

Kirstie_H

I knew it was being filmed. If I'd have thought about it, I SHOULD have told Richard. Maybe he could've gotten there in time to help wash the pig.

isellhondas

Oh, this coast dweller already KNOWS what you midwesterners do for fun!

im_brentwood

My 60 Lincoln got picked up in West Frankfort, Illinois today and it's on the way to me as we speak!

Might even have it tomorrow...

mako1a

The mooches are learning that and they aren't happy when they have to open their wallets a bit more.

I know, those mooch dealers are always trying to tack on some $500 charge or $349 doc fee or undeserved profit for doing nothing. Who do they think they are?

It works both ways.

oldfarmer50

"...without working machine gun..."

LOL. I just don't see richard64 running around the SC back country in that thing. Would attract the wrong crowd, if you know what I mean. :surprise:

I will go out on a limb here and make a prediction: THE PRICE OF GAS WILL FALL $.50 to $.75 A GALLON OVER THE NEXT SIX MONTHS. Maybe more.

If richard64 buys his truck now he will get a killer deal on a V-8 and will be able to afford to drive it a year from now.

Don't ask me how I know these things, I can't explain it but my wife will attest that I've ruined many a TV show for her by naming the killer 5 minutes in. :mad:

benjaminh

"I bought the Pilot because it is big, but I expected better from Honda as far as gas mileage goes. I usually get gas for my wife every week & she's been averaging between 15 & 15.5 MPG. The best I've done so far is just over 18 MPG - All highway, cruise set at 60. "

First, I'm very sorry about that little accident. What a headache.

And as other people have said, the mpg is likely to get better in a few thousand miles.

I know you know all this, but given that the Pilot has 4 wheel drive, weighs c. 4400 pounds, and has a massive 3.5 liter engine, it's not surprising it's thirsty. Given all that, in fact, it's not bad that it gets 18. But again that should go up in even a few months for hwy mpg.

I've been talking about this on other threads, but to me it shows the reason for CAFE. In 5 years or so your next new Pilot, should you get one, will be a little smaller, and a little less powerful, but should get much better mpg. Your Honda engineers are probably starting to work on it now...

oldfarmer50

"...OK enjoy your trip..."

She'll probably sue you for whiplash a year from now. :sick: Always get the cops.

A few years ago my older son was driving my Oldsmobile and a woman pulled out from a driveway right in front of him. He hit her rear corner and messed up my bumper and headlight. Fault was debatable even though she really caused it.

To my son's surprise she said "As long as no body is hurt let's forget about it". I think she may have been an illegal and had no insurance. Nevertheless I waited for a whole year for the lawsuit to come but it never did.

oldfarmer50

"...My 60 Lincoln...."

Does it have the suicide doors?

mac24

I know you know all this, but given that the Pilot has 4 wheel drive, weighs c. 4400 pounds, and has a massive 3.5 liter engine, it's not surprising it's thirsty. Given all that, in fact, it's not bad that it gets 18.

Hmmm, I don't know. My daily driver (four wheel drive, weighs 7500 lbs., massive 6.5 Turbo Diesel engine), gets 18mpg at a steady 60 mph and 14.5mpg overall average.
I must admit that I'd expect the Honda to do a little better, but I guess it is what it is.

Mine, an AMG H1 is pictured below. It is red, so maybe Richard might comsider it an alternative to the F150 he's thinking about?

benjaminh

Wow. For that you get great mpg! I'm impressed. It's the diesel that does it, right?

I hate myself already, but I kind of want to ride in that thing...

mako1a

Now you're talking, the REAL thing H1.

Not an H2 look alike or the H3 (Chevy Colorado 5 cyl with a hummer body).

I think it has webbing for seats unless it's been modified to semi civilian.

And you need a headset to talk to the passenger (distance and noise).

cak500

I'm in the process of hunting for a new RX350 for the wife, and was hoping to get some input on pricing strategy.

The facts:
Vehicle MSRP: $49,533

Invoice: $44,476 ($41,976 after incentives below)
Edmunds TMV: $45,638 ($43,138 after incentives)
TRUECar best local price: $46,389 ($43,889 after incentives)

Lexus Cust Loyalty Incentive: $1,000
Lexus Cust Loyalty Certificate: $1,500

Dealer asking: $45,582 (including incentives, excluding TTL)

Based on my research on Edmunds and TRUECar, I'm thinking that $45,000 after incentives, before TTL, is a reasonable price for this vehicle. Am I missing anything?

mac24

.........It's the diesel that does it, right?
I hate myself already, but I kind of want to ride in that thing...

Yes, diesels are generally more efficient than gas engines, but they do cost more to manufacture.
Most people are surprised when they hear how relatively economical the H1 is because they're used to hearing about the poor mileage of the GM H2 (a Hummer in name only).
If you have one of those it's often a cause for celebration when the mpg figure gets into double digits.

And sure, I'll drive you around the block if you're ever in the neighborhood. :shades:

mac24

Now you're talking, the REAL thing H1.
Not an H2 look alike or the H3 (Chevy Colorado 5 cyl with a hummer body).
I think it has webbing for seats unless it's been modified to semi civilian.
And you need a headset to talk to the passenger (distance and noise).

Yes, it's the real thing but in civilian clothes.
Built on the same production line as the military HMMWV, it has exactly the same body, chassis and powertrain, but then gets fitted with a more civilized interior.
The main differences on my model are heated leather seats, front and rear a/c, sound insulation, power windows and locks, Monsoon sound system etc.

Doesn't lose any of its functionality though.

benjaminh

Thanks! :P

jayrider

If you can buy thru truecar for 43889, why would you think 45582 is reasonable ? I bought thru truecar and it was stress free -- dealer just did the deal with no drama. If you like the higher priced dealer have him match the price or go elsewhere.

isellhondas

" Undeserved profit"

Yeah, we always had some customers who would decide what we"deserved".

Who do they think they are?

Oh, maybe just a small business with tremendous overhead trying to stay afloat in tough times with "invoice buyers" trying to buy cars for what the stores paid for them.

jmonroe

Oh, maybe just a small business with tremendous overhead trying to stay afloat in tough times with "invoice buyers" trying to buy cars for what the stores paid for them.

I'm having a hard time undestanding this. Doesn't the market dictate the selling price. Also, why sell if it isn't a good enough deal for the seller.

jmonroe

im_brentwood

Depends where you are really.

You were offered what's basically $1500 off of list, and unless it's an unobtainable color combo or something, I'd think you could probably do better.

FWIW, take Truecar with a grain of salt, like anything else.

From what I understand from people I know at Lexus, $1500-2k over invoice on them is the norm right now, they claim they have no inventory and are holding rather firm on pricing, like a lot of dealers right now. This is in the North Jersey area, Your mileage may vary.

Also, if you're buying and not leasing, I STRONGLY suggest you get either Black w Black interior OR Pearl White w Tan interior. And get the Nav, used RXs without Nav are tough to sell.

$2,000 spent on Nav now will likely bring $2-3k back in 3-4 years time.

im_brentwood

Nope.. that's the 61-68s

This is the 58-60 style.. headlamps at an angle, fins, lots of chrome, very gaudy.

VERY non-PC these days. So, of course, I love the thing.

cak500

Mean't to say an offer of $43k.

I hadn't really considered trying to purchase thru TrueCar since the three dealers listed are pretty far (> 200 miles). I'm glad to hear that this worked out for you though, and if I can't get a match locally I may just go with one of the participating dealers anyway.

The TrueCar site is really informative. Seems to make the process fairly transparent. I did notice that it didn't list one of my options however (crossbars).

im_brentwood

isell is repeating what's happening a lot right now.

There's no cars out there, and we're not taking cheap deals right now. At least not at my store. We will on a Santa Fe or a Genesis, not on a Tucson, Elantra or a Sonata.

Tucson? Elantra? MSRP. Had a customer in 2 days ago, wanted to be $23,700 on a $24,960 MSRP Tucson, we had two that just came in. Told him in a nice way that it was $24,960 or we'd pass.

He was rather annoyed, claimed we were greedy, etc and that he'd shop around. He came back this afternoon, both Tucsons that we had are burning gas. We have 3 in transit, 2 have deposits.

We discounted one of them $460 to a repeat customer... otherwise all are sold at MSRP.

He's still annoyed that I won't sell him one for $300 under invoice and can't believe why we wouldn't do it.

Supply vs Demand, like anything else.

nyccarguy

gg - I understand your Tahoe would sometimes "dip into the 13 mpg," but your Tahoe is a V8 powered real truck.

benjamin - Yeah, I know all the specs on the Pilot. Like I said, I knew it wasn't going to be a prius. I bought it for it's size. I've got 2 kids and a 3rd on the way - BTW, we're having a GIRL - WE WANTED a big vehicle (notice how I didn't say NEED). The sticker says 16/22. Like I said, my wife has been averaging in the 15s. I got 16.8 on our Sesame place road trip. and have only gotten over 18 mpg ONCE.

The MAJOR factors to the Pilot's poor fuel economy are it's chubby curb weight, the big V6 that probably doesn't put out enough hp for the car's weight, the 5 speed automatic, the 4WD. I'm sure it'll get better as the engine breaks in too - good point.

"In 5 years when you want to get a new Pilot..." I buy 'em & keep 'em for the long haul.

driver100 - we'd consistently get 21 mpg + highway MPG on our '07 X3.

8sparkplugs

We have a 07 Pilot, but its not 4 wheel drive. We have taken many long trips in it, 8-9 trips between 2500-3500 miles, and usually get 22 mpg. I don't remember it going through a very long period before the mileage got better. I honestly think that the mileage has slipped a little the last year or so, not sure if it's the gas, or if it's the new tires that have made the difference.

jmonroe

Supply vs Demand, like anything else.

Honest answer. That's the way my economics books and prof put it.

Capitalism still works in this country except for gas prices. Those guys are tough and none of my old books can explain that other than price fixing. Speculation seems to be at play today. To be honest, my books are so old I don't remember a single chapter on speculating.

jmonroe

benjaminh

Mazdas are good cars. They've got a nice line of of sedans, SUVs, sports cars, and a mini-mini van, the Mazda5...

They are actually down less than Toyota and Honda this year. Their production was less hit by the earthquake. So, they seem to have plenty of cars on the lots. And plenty of cars can mean good deals for those who are looking for them.And Mazda has 0% on most models right now.

I don't work for Mazda, I just like their cars and would like to see them sell a few more....

sterlingdog

"Is it any good as a movie?"

If you like old movies, you'll enjoy it. It's a cute comedy.

Richard

sterlingdog

Goodness. Crosley was certainly a versatile guy. I even read where he made refrigerators and stoves. As you say, a true entrepreneur.

Richard

sterlingdog

Just what I need---a Schwimmwagen. At that price, the machine gun and the rifles should be free. I don't know about the hurricanes, but I bet that it would keep those liberal politicians away from my door. :P

Richard

mako1a

Mazdas are good cars.

I had a Mazda 3 Yellow hatchback for a rental in JAX, Florida.

Not a powerhouse, but scooted along nicely and had a good stereo.

Only rental car I ever had that others wanted to do light to light with.

604doc

Regarding which pickups I'm considering, let me start by saying I don't tow anything, and I don't haul much, just the occasional appliance and Home Depot stuff.

The first on my list is the Honda Ridgeline. It's bigger than say a Toyota Tacoma, but smaller than a full size pick up. It's based on the Honda Pilot. Independent suspension, all wheel drive, and a pretty big back seat. "Real truck" guys hate them in general, but I need a car 90% of the time, and a truck 10% of the time. Living in the city, the size is just right for me. Everyone I've ever asked, and one friend that has one, swears by it. They say once you drive one, you're hooked.

Rumor has it that 2012 will be the last year for them. They aren't real popular, and dealers don't carry a lot of them. So, if the time comes and I can't get the one I want...

my next choice is a bit of a tie between the Nissan Frontier Crew Cab 4x4, and the Ford F150 Supercrew.

The Nissan has plenty of power, a decent price, but a cramped back seat.

The Ford is way more truck than I need, but they're just nice! Usually at the end of the year, Ford has some killer rebates and interest rates.

The Ford and Nissan are sort of at opposite ends of the spectrum, but I think I'd be happy with either.

I was considering the Tacoma, but it really bugs me that you can't get rear disc brakes at all, at any trim level. (The 80's called, they want their brakes back!)

If that changes for the 2012 model year, I may throw it on the list.

http://automobiles.honda.com/ridgeline/

sterlingdog

I'm so sorry to hear about the door on your new Pilot. If you had been driving an old car, it would never have happened. Just leave it to Murphy's Law. I'm sure that you will never hear from "Miss I Know Somebody Who Can Fix This." She was definitely missing the blackeyes in her peas. Imagine hitting your parked car and thinking that your insurance pays her! I'm sure that she took her driving test orally.

As for your mileage, I'm really surprised. Even my big V8 Caddy SRX gets 18 on the highway. As the other guys say, hopefully it will get better with time. At least your family had a nice trip and they are all well. That's the main thing.

Richard

sterlingdog

Yes, we saw that truck stop and traveled by it as fast as we could. :P :shades:

Richard

sterlingdog

Send pictures when it gets here!

Richard

sterlingdog

That would be NC back country---big difference. The necks get redder as you go further south. :P

Speaking of trucks, our local Ford dealer has the exact 2011 truck that I want---Race Red XLT. He's offering $9,500 off MSRP. Even the MSRP had been discounted by $1,500 for a final sticker of $36,230. That would bring the total down to $26,730. If he would allow me $12K for the '08 Sebring convertible, I would only have to write a check for $14,730. I may do a GG and walk in with my deal on one piece of paper---take it or leave it. Why buy used when you can get a deal like this? The big surprise is my wife's attitude. I took her to see it tonight. She said, "You don't need a truck that big and you'll get tired of it. If it's what you want, go ahead and buy it. I'll drive it, too. Just remember that the Cadillac is my car." :surprise: :confuse:

Richard

sterlingdog

Wow! I love your AMG H1. It would definitely make a statement in my neighborhood of three legged old people. If i don't work out a deal on the F150, I'll keep that one in mind.

Richard

sterlingdog

Thanks for sharing your choices. I was wondering if the F150 was on your list. The Ridgeline is a very nice truck. Like you, I don't tow and I only haul small items. I have just always wanted a truck. Though I enjoyed my Blazer, Tahoe, and Explorer, they were just not real trucks. I particularly like the F150 because of its style (boxy look), large interior, and height for good visibility. My only hesitation lies in the fact that it will not fit in the garage with the SRX. I hate the thought of leaving it out in the open. A smaller truck would solve that problem---if I wanted a smaller truck. I can't have it all, so I'll have to come to a decision. My wife also pointed out that we have recently spent a small fortune on curb appeal. Part of that appeal doesn't inlcude a vehicle sitting on the pad 24/7. She wants the cars in the garage. I can see her point. The rear yard is not an option because of the landscaping that we did there. Decisions, decisions.

Richard

bolivar

A Ridgeline has 4 doors and can seat 3 in the rear. It tows up to 5,000 pounds (probably not very well, especially since it's basically front wheel drive). I have a 'standard' 2 door garage with the smaller 7 foot doors. The Ridgeline goes inside with about 1 1/2 inch clearance on each side mirror. The wife has to dis-mount outside because you cannot get out the door on the right side, aganist the wall.

I feel it rides and drives close to a car. The wife has a 2005 Deville, and the Ridgeline goes down the road almost as nicely as the Deville. Which car to drive is not based on comfort. It's got about 35,000 miles on it and has never had a repair. The tires look like they could go to 50,000 easily (getting a little more noise from them) and when C&D did long term test, I think they projected brakes to something like 80,000 miles. The seats are comfortable. I rode once in the back seat for several hours, and they are also comfortable, but the seatback is rather upright, and this wore on me somewhat. The seat bottom in the rear is split and folds up giving a very large area for grocery bags, etc, keeping this kind of things out of the bed. Of course, it also has a 'trunk' under the rear bed which locks and is waterproof, but folding up rear seats is much easier for most things. The 'trunk' looks huge, but really isn't that big. We can fill it up with luggage for 2 pretty quickly. We do use it when traveling to keep luggage out of view. The bed has lights, tiedowns, and a tailgate that opens both ways. It's a 2006 model, and when I've looked at later models, I can't see any changes they've made.

But the milage is probably worse than NYCCGUY's Pilot. Oh, wait, he said he was doing 60mph, right? I run the Ridgeline at 70 to 77 here in Oklahoma, and it gets about 17.5. It's probably got same 3.5L as the Pilot and 5 speed tranny. Based on my Accord V6 and this Ridgeline, Hondas sound like they are fast, but aren't. I swear all my cars got about 2mpg more before we were afflicted with ethanol.

It's a nice truck/car.

driver100

We discounted one of them $460 to a repeat customer... otherwise all are sold at MSRP.

Is that a normal thing....giving repeat customers a better deal?

Do you do that automatically?

When I bought my 2nd Jeep they gave me a great price without any negotiating at all....better than the low price another dealer had advertised.