Can't help you on the finance part except to say you should check out the credit unions first.
Otherwise I think this is a great time to buy a big lux-barge with a V8. People are frightened of the economy and gas prices and are all rushing to buy Fiestas not Town Cars.
You should bargain hard. You just might be surprised what kind of deal you can get. Just don't go for anything too old because you'll run into bottom-feeders like me with the same bargain hunting idea.
As an aside: I let the car fever take hold of me last night and I called on a Craigslist car just down the road from me and 1/4 mile from my regular indie garage. It was a 1990 Buick Riveria with low miles for the year. No visable rust (rare). I thought, "why not, I'll just test drive it over to the shop and have it checked out".
My plans went down the tubes when the seller told me that it needed brakes. Then he said it had NO brakes so a shop inspection or even a test drive wasn't possible. A/C wasn't working either.
Started sounding hinky so I had to pass. Shame, it was a nice looking car.
Well the Accord did weigh in at just over 2,000 pounds when it first came out. But the increased weight is mostly from increases in size of cars. Really those "nanny" things add very little weight on a car. FWIW an additional passenger would add more weight than those "nanny" things like tire pressure sensors.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
depends on the car and over what period of time you save that $2-3K.
Here is the Driver method of justifying buying a new car over keeping a used one, using a fictional but semi-real scenario;
Keeping a Honda Accord for 5 years; Cost of new Honda Accord in 2007 $26,000 Trade in value now $10,500. Depreciation $15500 or $3100 a year. Buy a new 2012 Accord probably about $28,000 now, finance $17500.
Keeping a 10 year old Accord Cost of the new Honda in 2002 approx $24000 Trade in value now $4500. Depreciation $19500 or $1950 a year. Buy a new 2012 Accord probably $28000 now, finance $19500.
Using these numbers it costs $1150 a year more to trade in after 5 years instead of 10 years. Assuming a car 5 to 10 years old will need some repairs, that $1150 is probably more like $800. If something major goes, transmission, computer, etc it could cost you more to drive the 10 year old car.
For $800 a year, $66 a month, $16 a week, the cost of a coffee and a donut a day, or a beer a day, you can be driving a much better, more reliable, cleaner, nicer car!
Not only that, but it is a forced savings plan, the cost of the new car won't be as much of a shock because your trade in will be worth more.
If you want one that will be dependable and cost the least in repairs, try to consider a one or two year old TC.
Yeah, it certainly looks like that will be better in the long run. It will cost more, however, will also come with both the balance of the bumper to bumper warranty and the certified warranty. The biggest dealer of these cars here is really overpriced IMO, so I may be looking outside my normal region.
I am certainly undecided. My GF just wants me to lease a new Avalon. She keeps reminding me how much I loved my 06.
The best part is, I am in no hurry and have no trade to deal with.
OF, I've always liked Rivieras. I guess because when I was younger my Grandfather always had one. You did right passing on the CL one. That last thing you need is a car you have to tow to the mechanic just to get it on the road.
Otherwise I think this is a great time to buy a big lux-barge with a V8. People are frightened of the economy and gas prices and are all rushing to buy Fiestas not Town Cars.
Very true. Some of the prices I've seen have been decent, others really high. I haven't been to the dealers yet, so its hard to tell "how low they will go"
One of the best cars I owned was a 5 yo Chrysler bought used. I put well over 100K miles on it with few problems. One reason I like the idea of buying an "old man's" car like a TC is that you can be pretty sure it was never driven on the track or raced by kids. Also anyone with the money to buy a TC new would be likely to have the money to maintain it.
Also the TC design is a pretty proven technology. Any weak spots have certainly been fixed or at least well documented in the TC forums.
I'd say put down a larger down payment if you're worried about the note.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I checked out Waverunners and they look like a lot of fun, and with a lot of power!
I think you are wise to buy one expensive vehicle/toy at a time.
I agree, BMWs have improved without the Bangle styling, but I think he had an influence in them finding this design. The Audi A4 and 6 were tempting, but I know I enjoy my BMWs so there wasn't a reason to risk a change. If Dealer B hadn't come through, I would have bought an Audi rather than buy a car from Rocko. Car buying should not be made more stressful, that was truly the worst experience I have had by far in buying a car. I was embarassed that my wife had to be there while Rocko was insulting...pretty well said if that is what you want to pay for a 2012, this 2011 demo is all you're going to get for that amount. It was worse than trying to return a $12.50 watch without a receipt!
We love tennis and the salesman at Dealer B that we bought from is a big fan too. He went to Montreal to watch the finals. We went to Toronto and watched the women play and Venus was amazing to watch live. On TV you don't see it as well but she is such an incredible athlete. Even during warm up she sends each shot back exactly the same to practice smashes.
My favorite is Federer but Djokovic seems unbeatable. I watched yesterday 6-0 6-0 6-2!
If any one can't make it out it is a between the legs shot.
I am off to play tennis - doubles for 2 hours this morning at 10. Then we play our yearly paddle tennis match against our daughter and her husband at 4 pm - losers buy Dairy Queens.
Hi everyone, I am going to leave out the make and model of my new vehicle purchase and trade in experience but this story is 100% true. Yesterday I went down to a local dealer to purchase a new car and trade or close out my lease. Long story short, I agree on a price for a new car and a trade in value for my leased vehicle, where the dealer would purchase the car from me and remit the payoff to the financing company. I was very pleased until this point. I agreed to a trade in value of my leased car of $14,900 which they said would match the payoff balance of 14,900 at the leasing company (they called to confirm the payoff).
So I complete the bill of sale, purchase and financing contracts on 8/31 that show trade in of 14,900 and pay off of 14,900. However, it was the end of the day and for some reason the dealer had a computer glitch and I was unable to sign the electronic "Dealer trax" system they use. So as it was around 10pm, I agree to comeback on my lunch break for 5 minutes and finish it up. I went home with the new vehicle and turned my old vehicle over to them. Afterall, I did have the bill of sale contract and all the other paperwork.
When I went back today, I was there for more than I bargained for. Because I had made a payment on my lease on 8/31 the payoff had apparently dropped to around 14,000.00 with the leasing company. And I was told that I need to sign another bill of sale for the updated payoff amount. When I looked at the new bill of sale the trade in price was now knocked down to 14,000.00 again matching the lease payoff.
I refused to sign the new bill of sale and told them we have a done deal and they can work the accounting out themselves. I was rather livid.
I did not request the difference at the time, but the more I think I believe I am entitled to the difference between the original 14,900 on the bill of sale as the TRADE IN VALUE, versus the 14,000 that was the lease payoff amount. Am I wrong in thinking this way? and what would be the best approach to getting my money back? I feel like I should hire a lawyer or write a letter myself to recoup the difference. Any advice?? Thanks in advance.
Also the TC design is a pretty proven technology. Any weak spots have certainly been fixed or at least well documented in the TC forums
The biggest issue with TCs is the rear air suspension. It usually lasts 9-10 years easily. If you ignore the warning signs (car drooping overnight, compressor running alot) it becomes a major repair. If you just need to get the air springs replaced when they start to leak, its not too bad. Letting it go usually burns up the compressor too.
My Grandfather has an 04 Grand Marquis (functionally the same as a TC) and in 70K hasn't needed anything except for a power window switch (installed by me $80 part) front brakes/rotors, new tires and I believe a battery.
and what would be the best approach to getting my money back?
Welcome aboard mt.
I am not too sure if you have talked this over with the salesman or the manager yet, before getting a lawyer or writing a letter etc.
If the company is honest and ethical they will understand that you made a mistake and will give you a refund. Be sure to be polite, and state your situation in a businesslike manner, which you clearly did in your post.
If they say no (and they might, as it is sometimes difficult to get money back from dealers if you over paid...we had warranty left on a Meredes which we should have got a credit for about $1000 but we didn't notice until all the papers were signed, and they said too bad.
If they refuse you will gain nothing by getting into an arguement. Say you will write to a consumer columnist in the local paper and will consider taking legal action. I would be careful about that part, because I think it would be fair and nice if they give you back the $900, but I don't think they have to legally.
Yep, those are the WaveRunners. Ours is the FX High Output with cruiser seat, and that seat is shaped like a horse saddle for comfort as well as to keep you aboard during hard maneuvering, which has saved my bacon many a time. Even with the motor screaming I can hear my daughter's giggles and laughter when we ride together, and that truly makes the expense worthwhile. In about 7 hours we'll be heading to Flaming Gorge for a weekend on the water with friends and family, camping on the beach, and fishing for trout and salmon when we're not tearing it up on the watercraft.
Between now and then, though, I need to design out a custom install for some monitoring equipment at a yogurt plant. Gotta' keep my mind focused for just a bit longer
Djokovic just killed it yesterday. Talk about dominance on the court. The post-match interview with him was a little strange with his comments about Johnny Mac; might have been a language thing or I didn't understand the background. Serena is dominating, too. This Open will be a little strange with Venus out for medical, but I have a feeling Serena will use the situation for mental strength. I hate making predictions this early, but given their play so far, I'm thinking the big question is who they'll each face in the finals.
Gotta' run and take care of that yogurt plant now. Good luck at the match.
Agreed about the additional $900. The dealership still earns the same profit as originally agreed, and mtaxman777 simply gets back the money he put into the lease that had not been accounted for originally. It's his money.
Just making certain I understand your situation (really does help to know the car brand/model/year of what you're leasing and what you're trying to buy/lease, and the monetary details of the deal).
A) You agreed that the deal would be made if the dealer paid off your lease, then the dealer is correct.
You agreed that $14,900 is what the dealer would give you for your trade, then you're correct.
The issues is, once you drove the car home (I always wait until the paperwork is ENTIRELY complete before I drive a new car off their lot as the new owner), your leverage really goes out the window.
I'll assume they've already filed for a title transfer to you (or your lending/leasing institution). That makes the deal very difficult to unwind.
I'll also assume that you have the paperwork that originally showed $14,900 for the trade? If so, this is pretty cut and dry. Dealer has to honor the deal, regardless of what they say.
If the paperwork was left blank for the trade amount (bad move), then filled in later, you really just learned a life lesson. Never accept a car deal without correct and completed paperwork before driving off the dealer's lot.
I wouldn't mind a Vic or a Grand Marq but don't think I would want a P71. A loaded up civilian model may do the trick. The problem here is this, (I know I sound like a picky SOB). the Civi Crown vic has been pretty much out of production since 07 and the Grand Marquis has been decontented alot. 09+ models are pretty much strictly fleet sales and many of the nicer features have been eliminated. (heated seats, power pass seat, steering wheel controls, air-susp).
The time may be running out to get "THE" Panther I want. I am a fan and know the Panthers well. Even the 09/10 TCs are pretty much all ex-fleet cars. The 07/08s are much more likely to have been consumer cars and also are available with more features. The 09+ models are rarely ever seen with moonroofs and never with NAV and the top-line THX stereo.
Decisions, decisions. At this point I think I am going to test drive the Avalon, and LaCrosse and see what the lease deals are like. If the leases stink maybe I'll switch back to finding a TC.
At this point right now, I just don't want to fork over a huge down payment on something with all the other expenses I have coming up. I've just purchased one of those expensive "rocks" (if you know what I mean) and tackled a full kitchen remodel..
I appreciate all the input, I know I'm all over the map
If I don't finance anything, I will most likely just keep on driving my S10 and we do have the 08 Elantra (with a small payment) with only 28K on it. A car for me is more of a want, than a need. I am willing to take a risk financing as both me and GF's jobs are secure and my monthly expenses are in line.
I try to be pretty financially responsible and already have a fairly sizeable retirement account at my young age. I feel that is important and 10% of my salary goes to that every week.
>Then he said it had NO brakes so a shop inspection or even a test drive wasn't possible.
I thought all cars had emergency brakes. That would enable it to be driven to the shop. My suspicion on brakes would be corroded metal line leaked out fluid or master cylinder failed. Level of fluid in reservoir would be the tell at first.
The AC out would be a fixer upper. It's a 21-year old car. Who knows what's wrong.
Oh oh, don't like the sound of that. Have you heard something I haven't? If you're talking about inflation then borrowing money at low rates now might be a smart move as you will pay back cheaper dollars.
If you're talking something more serious, then the finance company probably won't be able to find a sherriff to enforce the repo because they'll be busy with the riots.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Seller said rear pads were shot so I wonder if the e-brake would work or if it would gouge the rotors trying. You are right about the break line. Seller said line was spitting fluid when pedal was pressed. I thought most cars have a dual system which would give you at least partial braking but seller said pedal goes right to the floor. At that point I started to get bad vibes from him so I didn't pursue it.
I had an Oldsmobile of the same vintage with a bad A/C and it would have cost more than the value of the car to fix.
The seller claimed that after not selling for months he had a potential buyer coming today (yeah sure) but if it's still there in a week I might offer $500 bucks and take a chance of having to take it to the junk yard.
Or maybe I'll keep looking.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Did you have the receipt for your neon? You could have just brought it back & gotten a full refund.
Speaking of taking a negative and spinning it into a lesson learned. The Dodge Neon did something very beneficial for my freinds and family. After seeing the experience of what it was to own a Dodge Neon first hand, I can honestly say that none of my family members or friends have gone on to purchase any Neons since then, and for that matter any Dodge or Chrysler :lemon: (well, my wife's friend got a Charger about 6 years back; of course it was brand new and had a bulb out already on the turn signal.).
So my negative experience helped all of my friends and family avoid the same negative sink hole. :mad:
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
FWIW an additional passenger would add more weight than those "nanny" things like tire pressure sensors.
That's just one example. You have all these gadgets and knicknacks, and they all have to be wired to the power source. Power seats, 8, 10, 12 speaker systems, sensors everywhere, lights everywhere (okay, I like the lights when you open a glove box or hood or trunk/cargo area). Built in subwoofers. Lojack. Aluminum shift paddles. ESP/ESC. ABS. Moonroofs. Power doors and windows. washer fluid, and more....
Sure, none of these weight as much as a passenger, but when you add it all up, it can get heavy.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
to justify my results. As a good retired Govt employee
I come with a handful of papers to support my numbers.
When I bought the Genny the dealer used KBB for the trade value of Mrs. jmonroe’s ‘06 Sonata LX. IMO, KBB is low and Edmunds is high so there is a middle ground that can be reached; although I’m not very good at negotiating because I have to get my way (there goes that spoiled thing again).
I knew what I would accept and I don’t usually carry paper but Son #1 said, “you have the Edmunds number so why not take it with you? It can’t hurt”. I said, “I don’t like to play the paper game but OK”. When I told the salesman that 9K was not going to do the deal he broke out the KBB paper and said, “here, look at this”. Alright, since were now playing with paper I showed him what I had from Edmunds. He said, “oh, we go by this” (shaking the KBB paper). That was easy to defend, so I showed him the Edmunds paper and said, “oh, I go by this”. I then said, “FWIW, I think this Edmunds number is a little high but it doesn’t make any difference because I’m not going to buy unless I get $9600 for my car”. I think Edmunds showed it at about $9875 but that was with a passenger side mirror that wasn’t whacked which he was quick to point out. I didn’t care because I was homed in on $9600. That’s when he went to the tower and was back almost immediately with what I wanted.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hey gang, OK lay it on me. The car search has begun. Well.... at least the internet browsing has ramped up a bit. Not probably gonna pull the trigger for at least a month or so.
Like the others have said, I wouldn’t go after a used car that was more than 3 years old. That’s the way I did it when I bought used. I just didn’t have confidence in cars older than that but that was back in the 70’s and early 80’s when the half life of a car was around 50K miles (that’s not the case today) so I never bought one with more than 25k miles on it. I had the advantage of knowing that I wasn’t going to mile it up since I worked only 3 miles from my house. I also put down a large chuck of what I was buying, usually around 50%, but I know not everyone can do that. Since you say you have a good bit of expenses coming up, why not wait and see how that goes? If like some have said, about the economy getting worse, and the two of you are still working, the car market will drop and that’s something in your favor. After all, you said you each have a vehicle so it’s not like you NEED a car.
I’m a firm believer in enjoying your life as you live it. You can’t put off everything for later you just have to have the right priorities and I know your sensible enough to know how far to go.
Let us know how it goes.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The dealership for Buick and Chev and others in the past decade wholesaled cars that were over 80,000 miles. Rarely did they put anything on their own lot. So the wholesale value was meaningful because they were going to wholesale them to other used car lots.
Today I checked their used car offerings. 2002 Buick leSabre with 147,000, 1996 Cad with 193,000, 2004 leSabre 166,000, 1998 leSabre with 161,000, along with lots of truck and SUV vehicles in the same ranges. So far, nothing over 200,000 on the lot.
Mileage doesn't seem to be a negative factor for the new car dealership. They had vehicles with much lower mileage, but their inventory carried these as well; that surprised me.
If you notice, the two "older" models I chose were both under 25K miles. No way no how, would I consider financing anything (regardless of age) with high miles.
I will certainly report my findings, to you guys. I am happy for all the responses. It makes you take a step back and think.
Imid, In looking at cars recently I too have noticed the trend to many higher mileage cars out there. I was stunned at some of the prices too.
In reality, used cars are only worth what they are going through the auction for and THOSE are the numbers dealers look at.
I’ve come to learn that but I don’t have access to auction values so I had to rely on KBB (which seems to favor dealers) and Edmunds (which seems to favor buyers). It would have been nice to see the NADA numbers but for some reason, I couldn’t get that on the web.
One other input was here at the Edmunds forum Real world Trade in Values. ‘volvomax’ told me that 9200 would be all the money for that Sonata so I shot for 9600 and I won. I was a little surprised but I did win that one.
All said and done, that was the easiest car purchase I ever made.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
>Most banks won't loan money on miled up cars but this could be changing too?
Thanks for commenting. This is an old-fashioned dealership in a rural small town that's been there since the 20s or 30s. I suspect many of those cars would be bought with cash by the farm folks/country folk. So that bypasses having the bank think it has too much mileage.
I'm just the opposite, I find myself willing to trade years for milage. My ideal bargain car would be an older low mile car rather than a newer high mile car.
I guess I don't trust anyone to take as good care of their cars as I do.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Bringing a lawyer into this would be the LAST thing I would do. Nobody likes getting threatened by a lawyer.
Also it would cost more for the lawyer than the amount in question. If I understand the problem correctly, he is kind of at their mercy if he has signed all the documents and driven the new car home. GG explained it very well a few posts up.
The lower the miles, the better the car and that isn't always the case.
I once took in a five year old Buick with almost 300,000 miles on it. It was on the road constantly and it had been well taken care of. It purred like a kitten and the owner said it used a quart of oil every 4000 miles. It had the wonderful 3800 engine!
We wholesaled it and the wholesaler loved it so much that he gave it to his wife to drive. Three years later he still had it and after another 100,000 miles it still used a quart of oil every 4000 miles.
On the other hand, in 1982, my best freinds dad bought a new Dodge Rampage pickup. It was such a tiny little thing that I thought it was useless and that described it pretty well. Still, it was so unique that I liked it.
About eight years ago, his then 88 year old dad decided to sell it after driving it a whopping 21,000 miles. The truck was in Southern CA and I'm is Seattle so I agreed to buy it sight unseen and wisely paid 700.00 to have it shipped to me.
He had maintained it pretty well and had even replaced the timing belt but most things were original including the rock hard tires.
It was a straight as can be but the silver paint had the shine of a barn door.
Immediatly, it blew a rear wheel cylinder which ruined the like new lining. Next week a rear wheel seal blew ruining the lining that had just been installed. I replaced the tires, belts, hoses and the tired engine gaskets that were leaking oil.
Within a month the brittle shift bushings fell apart and were a nasty job to locate and replace. It ran OK but I think I would have much rather had the same truck with 100,000 miles that had been driven more often.
I think Edmunds showed it at about $9875 but that was with a passenger side mirror that wasn’t whacked which he was quick to point out. I didn’t care because I was homed in on $9600.
So many people have no idea what their trade in is worth, that you are at a huge advantage if you have done some research when you go in. You knew $9600 was a realistic number, maybe a bit high for the dealer, but it was possible. I doubt he would want to lose a deal over a few hundred dollars, and he always has some leeway when he goes to sell the trade in.
It's easy to pull the wool over an inexperienced customer, but knowledge is power when trading in a car.
Comments
Can't help you on the finance part except to say you should check out the credit unions first.
Otherwise I think this is a great time to buy a big lux-barge with a V8. People are frightened of the economy and gas prices and are all rushing to buy Fiestas not Town Cars.
You should bargain hard. You just might be surprised what kind of deal you can get. Just don't go for anything too old because you'll run into bottom-feeders like me with the same bargain hunting idea.
As an aside: I let the car fever take hold of me last night and I called on a Craigslist car just down the road from me and 1/4 mile from my regular indie garage. It was a 1990 Buick Riveria with low miles for the year. No visable rust (rare). I thought, "why not, I'll just test drive it over to the shop and have it checked out".
My plans went down the tubes when the seller told me that it needed brakes. Then he said it had NO brakes so a shop inspection or even a test drive wasn't possible. A/C wasn't working either.
Started sounding hinky so I had to pass. Shame, it was a nice looking car.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1990-93-Buick-Riviera-911- 21301992013.jpg
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Here is the Driver method of justifying buying a new car over keeping a used one, using a fictional but semi-real scenario;
Keeping a Honda Accord for 5 years;
Cost of new Honda Accord in 2007 $26,000
Trade in value now $10,500.
Depreciation $15500 or $3100 a year.
Buy a new 2012 Accord probably about $28,000 now, finance $17500.
Keeping a 10 year old Accord
Cost of the new Honda in 2002 approx $24000
Trade in value now $4500.
Depreciation $19500 or $1950 a year.
Buy a new 2012 Accord probably $28000 now, finance $19500.
Using these numbers it costs $1150 a year more to trade in after 5 years instead of 10 years. Assuming a car 5 to 10 years old will need some repairs, that $1150 is probably more like $800. If something major goes, transmission, computer, etc it could cost you more to drive the 10 year old car.
For $800 a year, $66 a month, $16 a week, the cost of a coffee and a donut a day, or a beer a day, you can be driving a much better, more reliable, cleaner, nicer car!
Not only that, but it is a forced savings plan, the cost of the new car won't be as much of a shock because your trade in will be worth more.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yeah, it certainly looks like that will be better in the long run. It will cost more, however, will also come with both the balance of the bumper to bumper warranty and the certified warranty. The biggest dealer of these cars here is really overpriced IMO, so I may be looking outside my normal region.
I am certainly undecided. My GF just wants me to lease a new Avalon. She keeps reminding me how much I loved my 06.
The best part is, I am in no hurry and have no trade to deal with.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I've always liked Rivieras. I guess because when I was younger my Grandfather always had one. You did right passing on the CL one. That last thing you need is a car you have to tow to the mechanic just to get it on the road.
Otherwise I think this is a great time to buy a big lux-barge with a V8. People are frightened of the economy and gas prices and are all rushing to buy Fiestas not Town Cars.
Very true. Some of the prices I've seen have been decent, others really high. I haven't been to the dealers yet, so its hard to tell "how low they will go"
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I have to agree with nyc. A car that old could become a money pit and you could end up in a downward spiral.
It might last for 10 years with no problems, but it is too much of a gamble. If it can be paid off in 2 years it won't spiral out of control.
A one or two year old car has some warranty on it, so there is more safety.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Who's trade-in numbers would you use, Edmunds? KBB? NADA? They can vary by a wide margin.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
One of the best cars I owned was a 5 yo Chrysler bought used. I put well over 100K miles on it with few problems. One reason I like the idea of buying an "old man's" car like a TC is that you can be pretty sure it was never driven on the track or raced by kids. Also anyone with the money to buy a TC new would be likely to have the money to maintain it.
Also the TC design is a pretty proven technology. Any weak spots have certainly been fixed or at least well documented in the TC forums.
I'd say put down a larger down payment if you're worried about the note.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think you are wise to buy one expensive vehicle/toy at a time.
I agree, BMWs have improved without the Bangle styling, but I think he had an influence in them finding this design. The Audi A4 and 6 were tempting, but I know I enjoy my BMWs so there wasn't a reason to risk a change. If Dealer B hadn't come through, I would have bought an Audi rather than buy a car from Rocko. Car buying should not be made more stressful, that was truly the worst experience I have had by far in buying a car. I was embarassed that my wife had to be there while Rocko was insulting...pretty well said if that is what you want to pay for a 2012, this 2011 demo is all you're going to get for that amount. It was worse than trying to return a $12.50 watch without a receipt!
We love tennis and the salesman at Dealer B that we bought from is a big fan too. He went to Montreal to watch the finals. We went to Toronto and watched the women play and Venus was amazing to watch live. On TV you don't see it as well but she is such an incredible athlete. Even during warm up she sends each shot back exactly the same to practice smashes.
My favorite is Federer but Djokovic seems unbeatable. I watched yesterday 6-0 6-0 6-2!
If any one can't make it out it is a between the legs shot.
I am off to play tennis - doubles for 2 hours this morning at 10. Then we play our yearly paddle tennis match against our daughter and her husband at 4 pm - losers buy Dairy Queens.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
So I complete the bill of sale, purchase and financing contracts on 8/31 that show trade in of 14,900 and pay off of 14,900. However, it was the end of the day and for some reason the dealer had a computer glitch and I was unable to sign the electronic "Dealer trax" system they use. So as it was around 10pm, I agree to comeback on my lunch break for 5 minutes and finish it up. I went home with the new vehicle and turned my old vehicle over to them. Afterall, I did have the bill of sale contract and all the other paperwork.
When I went back today, I was there for more than I bargained for. Because I had made a payment on my lease on 8/31 the payoff had apparently dropped to around 14,000.00 with the leasing company. And I was told that I need to sign another bill of sale for the updated payoff amount. When I looked at the new bill of sale the trade in price was now knocked down to 14,000.00 again matching the lease payoff.
I refused to sign the new bill of sale and told them we have a done deal and they can work the accounting out themselves. I was rather livid.
I did not request the difference at the time, but the more I think I believe I am entitled to the difference between the original 14,900 on the bill of sale as the TRADE IN VALUE, versus the 14,000 that was the lease payoff amount. Am I wrong in thinking this way? and what would be the best approach to getting my money back? I feel like I should hire a lawyer or write a letter myself to recoup the difference. Any advice?? Thanks in advance.
The biggest issue with TCs is the rear air suspension. It usually lasts 9-10 years easily. If you ignore the warning signs (car drooping overnight, compressor running alot) it becomes a major repair. If you just need to get the air springs replaced when they start to leak, its not too bad. Letting it go usually burns up the compressor too.
My Grandfather has an 04 Grand Marquis (functionally the same as a TC) and in 70K hasn't needed anything except for a power window switch (installed by me $80 part) front brakes/rotors, new tires and I believe a battery.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Are side impact and roof strength standards part of those "nanny" things?
I always use Edmunds figures, then end up having
to justify my results. As a good retired Govt employee
I come with a handful of papers to support my numbers.
My problem is I always use "clean" and the dealer wants
to use "average" or "ready for the scrap yard" numbers.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Welcome aboard mt.
I am not too sure if you have talked this over with the salesman or the manager yet, before getting a lawyer or writing a letter etc.
If the company is honest and ethical they will understand that you made a mistake and will give you a refund. Be sure to be polite, and state your situation in a businesslike manner, which you clearly did in your post.
If they say no (and they might, as it is sometimes difficult to get money back from dealers if you over paid...we had warranty left on a Meredes which we should have got a credit for about $1000 but we didn't notice until all the papers were signed, and they said too bad.
If they refuse you will gain nothing by getting into an arguement. Say you will write to a consumer columnist in the local paper and will consider taking legal action. I would be careful about that part, because I think it would be fair and nice if they give you back the $900, but I don't think they have to legally.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't know the difference from a Crown Vic and a Town Car, but
they seem to serve the same purpose to me. If you could live with
this, the price is right. Serviced with records. And they'd call you
Trooper Tom.Crown Vic
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Between now and then, though, I need to design out a custom install for some monitoring equipment at a yogurt plant. Gotta' keep my mind focused for just a bit longer
Djokovic just killed it yesterday. Talk about dominance on the court. The post-match interview with him was a little strange with his comments about Johnny Mac; might have been a language thing or I didn't understand the background. Serena is dominating, too. This Open will be a little strange with Venus out for medical, but I have a feeling Serena will use the situation for mental strength. I hate making predictions this early, but given their play so far, I'm thinking the big question is who they'll each face in the finals.
Gotta' run and take care of that yogurt plant now. Good luck at the match.
you to sign a paper, but they want to rob you of 900 bucks.
Refuse to sign and say "900 back to me or unwind the deal.
Unwinding is torture to a dealer. They will avoid it like the plague.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Just making certain I understand your situation (really does help to know the car brand/model/year of what you're leasing and what you're trying to buy/lease, and the monetary details of the deal).
A) You agreed that the deal would be made if the dealer paid off your lease, then the dealer is correct.
The issues is, once you drove the car home (I always wait until the paperwork is ENTIRELY complete before I drive a new car off their lot as the new owner), your leverage really goes out the window.
I'll assume they've already filed for a title transfer to you (or your lending/leasing institution). That makes the deal very difficult to unwind.
I'll also assume that you have the paperwork that originally showed $14,900 for the trade? If so, this is pretty cut and dry. Dealer has to honor the deal, regardless of what they say.
If the paperwork was left blank for the trade amount (bad move), then filled in later, you really just learned a life lesson. Never accept a car deal without correct and completed paperwork before driving off the dealer's lot.
Best of luck. Let us know how this turns out.
The time may be running out to get "THE" Panther I want. I am a fan and know the Panthers well. Even the 09/10 TCs are pretty much all ex-fleet cars. The 07/08s are much more likely to have been consumer cars and also are available with more features. The 09+ models are rarely ever seen with moonroofs and never with NAV and the top-line THX stereo.
Decisions, decisions. At this point I think I am going to test drive the Avalon, and LaCrosse and see what the lease deals are like. If the leases stink maybe I'll switch back to finding a TC.
At this point right now, I just don't want to fork over a huge down payment on something with all the other expenses I have coming up. I've just purchased one of those expensive "rocks" (if you know what I mean) and tackled a full kitchen remodel..
I appreciate all the input, I know I'm all over the map
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Bringing a lawyer into this would be the LAST thing I would do. Nobody likes getting threatened by a lawyer.
He should simply tell the store that he made a mistake with the lease pay off and that he expects a check for the difference.
than the one you really want. I'm just trying to get
you something satisfying without financing. You won't
recognize the economy in 2 years or maybe 1 year from
now. It will change and probably not for the better.
I'm only suggesting you not finance anything and that
includes leasing. I've been through election year politics
many times. Economic change is eminent, like it or not.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I try to be pretty financially responsible and already have a fairly sizeable retirement account at my young age. I feel that is important and 10% of my salary goes to that every week.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I thought all cars had emergency brakes. That would enable it to be driven to the shop. My suspicion on brakes would be corroded metal line leaked out fluid or master cylinder failed. Level of fluid in reservoir would be the tell at first.
The AC out would be a fixer upper. It's a 21-year old car. Who knows what's wrong.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh oh, don't like the sound of that. Have you heard something I haven't? If you're talking about inflation then borrowing money at low rates now might be a smart move as you will pay back cheaper dollars.
If you're talking something more serious, then the finance company probably won't be able to find a sherriff to enforce the repo because they'll be busy with the riots.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Craigslist is loaded with flakes. Anyone who can't fix his brakes obviously can't afford to fix anything.
That would be a car to RUN from as most craigslist cars are!
As conservative as I think I am, I try to assume things will be on the positive side instead of pulling the drapes and getting under my bed.
Seller said rear pads were shot so I wonder if the e-brake would work or if it would gouge the rotors trying. You are right about the break line. Seller said line was spitting fluid when pedal was pressed. I thought most cars have a dual system which would give you at least partial braking but seller said pedal goes right to the floor. At that point I started to get bad vibes from him so I didn't pursue it.
I had an Oldsmobile of the same vintage with a bad A/C and it would have cost more than the value of the car to fix.
The seller claimed that after not selling for months he had a potential buyer coming today (yeah sure) but if it's still there in a week I might offer $500 bucks and take a chance of having to take it to the junk yard.
Or maybe I'll keep looking.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Speaking of taking a negative and spinning it into a lesson learned. The Dodge Neon did something very beneficial for my freinds and family. After seeing the experience of what it was to own a Dodge Neon first hand, I can honestly say that none of my family members or friends have gone on to purchase any Neons since then, and for that matter any Dodge or Chrysler :lemon: (well, my wife's friend got a Charger about 6 years back; of course it was brand new and had a bulb out already on the turn signal.).
So my negative experience helped all of my friends and family avoid the same negative sink hole. :mad:
1976 threw me for a loop. I bought a new car, new
motorcycle, new house, then got 3 speeding tickets,
SR-22 insurance. I had $2.36 in my account and met
my now wife. It took years to recover from what I
call the Jimmy Carter years. Obama years sound much
like what I remember from back then. OK, all vented...
lets buy something.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I never thought there could be a worse President than Carter but, boy, was I wrong!
In any event, it'll be an interesting election and we have so much at stake right now.
That's just one example. You have all these gadgets and knicknacks, and they all have to be wired to the power source. Power seats, 8, 10, 12 speaker systems, sensors everywhere, lights everywhere (okay, I like the lights when you open a glove box or hood or trunk/cargo area). Built in subwoofers. Lojack. Aluminum shift paddles. ESP/ESC. ABS. Moonroofs. Power doors and windows. washer fluid, and more....
Sure, none of these weight as much as a passenger, but when you add it all up, it can get heavy.
Don't let your wife find out you lumped her in with all those bad things that happened or she'll be your ex-wife. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I hadn't known her 3 days and had to borrow a $20 to get
to work. First and last time ever taking money from a girl.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
to justify my results. As a good retired Govt employee
I come with a handful of papers to support my numbers.
When I bought the Genny the dealer used KBB for the trade value of Mrs. jmonroe’s ‘06 Sonata LX. IMO, KBB is low and Edmunds is high so there is a middle ground that can be reached; although I’m not very good at negotiating because I have to get my way (there goes that spoiled thing again).
I knew what I would accept and I don’t usually carry paper but Son #1 said, “you have the Edmunds number so why not take it with you? It can’t hurt”. I said, “I don’t like to play the paper game but OK”. When I told the salesman that 9K was not going to do the deal he broke out the KBB paper and said, “here, look at this”. Alright, since were now playing with paper I showed him what I had from Edmunds. He said, “oh, we go by this” (shaking the KBB paper). That was easy to defend, so I showed him the Edmunds paper and said, “oh, I go by this”. I then said, “FWIW, I think this Edmunds number is a little high but it doesn’t make any difference because I’m not going to buy unless I get $9600 for my car”. I think Edmunds showed it at about $9875 but that was with a passenger side mirror that wasn’t whacked which he was quick to point out. I didn’t care because I was homed in on $9600. That’s when he went to the tower and was back almost immediately with what I wanted.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
People (and dealers) like to show the numbers that are most favorable to them.
In reality, used cars are only worth what they are going through the auction for and THOSE are the numbers dealers look at.
Like the others have said, I wouldn’t go after a used car that was more than 3 years old. That’s the way I did it when I bought used. I just didn’t have confidence in cars older than that but that was back in the 70’s and early 80’s when the half life of a car was around 50K miles (that’s not the case today) so I never bought one with more than 25k miles on it. I had the advantage of knowing that I wasn’t going to mile it up since I worked only 3 miles from my house. I also put down a large chuck of what I was buying, usually around 50%, but I know not everyone can do that. Since you say you have a good bit of expenses coming up, why not wait and see how that goes? If like some have said, about the economy getting worse, and the two of you are still working, the car market will drop and that’s something in your favor. After all, you said you each have a vehicle so it’s not like you NEED a car.
I’m a firm believer in enjoying your life as you live it. You can’t put off everything for later you just have to have the right priorities and I know your sensible enough to know how far to go.
Let us know how it goes.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Today I checked their used car offerings. 2002 Buick leSabre with 147,000, 1996 Cad with 193,000, 2004 leSabre 166,000, 1998 leSabre with 161,000, along with lots of truck and SUV vehicles in the same ranges. So far, nothing over 200,000 on the lot.
Mileage doesn't seem to be a negative factor for the new car dealership. They had vehicles with much lower mileage, but their inventory carried these as well; that surprised me.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
We didn't keep high milers either EVEN THOUGH they may have actually been in much better shape than cars with half the miles.
A lot of people only buiy used cars based on miles and they pass by a lot of great cars when they do this.
For me, miles is WAY down the list of criteria when I look for a used car!
It's possible that with the current shortage of used cars that that store has reexamined what cars to sell.
Most banks won't loan money on miled up cars but this could be changing too?
If you notice, the two "older" models I chose were both under 25K miles. No way no how, would I consider financing anything (regardless of age) with high miles.
I will certainly report my findings, to you guys. I am happy for all the responses. It makes you take a step back and think.
Imid,
In looking at cars recently I too have noticed the trend to many higher mileage cars out there. I was stunned at some of the prices too.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I’ve come to learn that but I don’t have access to auction values so I had to rely on KBB (which seems to favor dealers) and Edmunds (which seems to favor buyers). It would have been nice to see the NADA numbers but for some reason, I couldn’t get that on the web.
One other input was here at the Edmunds forum Real world Trade in Values. ‘volvomax’ told me that 9200 would be all the money for that Sonata so I shot for 9600 and I won. I was a little surprised but I did win that one.
All said and done, that was the easiest car purchase I ever made.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Thanks for commenting. This is an old-fashioned dealership in a rural small town that's been there since the 20s or 30s. I suspect many of those cars would be bought with cash by the farm folks/country folk. So that bypasses having the bank think it has too much mileage.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Holy cow! Those would be high milers even for a BHPH lot, but a new car dealer? How the heck would you warranty cars like that?
I remember looking at my Mitsu dealer's web site and shaking my head that they had cars with 90,000 miles.
Either cars are in EXTREMELY short supply or they are building them much better. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Buicks. They had two Malibus. AND LOTS of trucks and vans and SUV types.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm just the opposite, I find myself willing to trade years for milage. My ideal bargain car would be an older low mile car rather than a newer high mile car.
I guess I don't trust anyone to take as good care of their cars as I do.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The one good thing is Venus and Serena won't have to play off against each other in a final...which I don't think they like to do.
That WaveRunner looks like it would be a blast....no Ecoboost engine there!
Good luck with the yogurt plant, sounds like interesting work.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Also it would cost more for the lawyer than the amount in question. If I understand the problem correctly, he is kind of at their mercy if he has signed all the documents and driven the new car home. GG explained it very well a few posts up.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The lower the miles, the better the car and that isn't always the case.
I once took in a five year old Buick with almost 300,000 miles on it. It was on the road constantly and it had been well taken care of. It purred like a kitten and the owner said it used a quart of oil every 4000 miles. It had the wonderful 3800 engine!
We wholesaled it and the wholesaler loved it so much that he gave it to his wife to drive. Three years later he still had it and after another 100,000 miles it still used a quart of oil every 4000 miles.
On the other hand, in 1982, my best freinds dad bought a new Dodge Rampage pickup. It was such a tiny little thing that I thought it was useless and that described it pretty well. Still, it was so unique that I liked it.
About eight years ago, his then 88 year old dad decided to sell it after driving it a whopping 21,000 miles. The truck was in Southern CA and I'm is Seattle so I agreed to buy it sight unseen and wisely paid 700.00 to have it shipped to me.
He had maintained it pretty well and had even replaced the timing belt but most things were original including the rock hard tires.
It was a straight as can be but the silver paint had the shine of a barn door.
Immediatly, it blew a rear wheel cylinder which ruined the like new lining. Next week a rear wheel seal blew ruining the lining that had just been installed. I replaced the tires, belts, hoses and the tired engine gaskets that were leaking oil.
Within a month the brittle shift bushings fell apart and were a nasty job to locate and replace. It ran OK but I think I would have much rather had the same truck with 100,000 miles that had been driven more often.
So much for "older" low mile cars!
So many people have no idea what their trade in is worth, that you are at a huge advantage if you have done some research when you go in. You knew $9600 was a realistic number, maybe a bit high for the dealer, but it was possible. I doubt he would want to lose a deal over a few hundred dollars, and he always has some leeway when he goes to sell the trade in.
It's easy to pull the wool over an inexperienced customer, but knowledge is power when trading in a car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460