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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,217
    edited September 2011
    Well, I did it, I had my son sign over the 1984 Corvette to me last night. He couldn't afford two cars and it has just been sitting at my place. As he signed the title I heard this loud sucking sound coming from my wallet.

    So far I can see it needs brake pads, ball joints, cooling fan and valve cover gaskets. I just hope that's all.

    Aside: The Edmunds hosts should end their party. I'm still having trouble logging on.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    they usually have at least one drive event) and we stopped at each and enetered their win car 'X' contest (wish us luck).

    Good luck in winning a car. Hopefully it won't be a BMW or people will think you are just status conscious buying it for the badge. Also hope you don't get too many phone calls from all those slips you put your phone number on.

    Just joking...but good luck on winning a car.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,973
    TJC? based on your criteria, I would actually go older. You aren't going to drive it much, so why get something new enough to still require a big note? My recommendation (worth, of course, bumpkus) would be lease something if you want a payment, or search for a 10-12 YO grandpa car (GM maybe) like Lemko got, and just pay cash. COuld keep that for a while and probably not lose a dime on it.

    I may do just that. I've been searching CL and found a few decent looking land barges, but nothing that makes me want to and check one out. One will turn up.

    My GF wants nothing to do with buying something old like that.... She told me again yesterday to "stop kidding yourself" and go out and just lease somthing brand new.

    I'll tell you something its nice to be in the position of not having to do anything. We leave on a cruise in less than two weeks and I will probably step up the search when I get back.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,973
    This one was at a NJ dealer:

    Nice car there. The problem is I don't have 18K laying around to buy that cash and we all talked last week and agreed financing a 5 year old car may not be the best idea.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Buying from craigslist or Auto Trader can be a shot in the dark.

    Ebay has Autocheck, giving you some idea about condition with

    regard to mileage accuracy, wrecks, etc. For $40 you can get

    Carfax Carfax reports on most anything.

    You get 5 reports over a 6 month period or you can choose the

    other option of as many as you need for a little more. All dealers

    use it, but who knows if they reveal the results to buyers (unless it's clean).

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    You people are funny. The hosts' party consisted of us experiencing frustration when trying to access the forums. :( The tech group is aware of the problem, but it's rather unfortunate that it occurred right as a long weekend began.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    edited September 2011
    >us experiencing frustration when trying to access the forums.

    I thought the hosts had special lines to use for access so they didn't have the occasional frustrations that the common folk bear! :grin :shades: :blush:;):)

    >it's rather unfortunate that it occurred right as a long weekend began.

    Murphy's Law. But it seems to have improved, knock on plastic, this morningn.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    We expect to see pictures of the redo.

    Richard
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,217
    edited September 2011
    "...The problem is I don't have 18K laying around..."

    "...I've been searching CL..."

    Craigslist land barge:

    http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/2558106010.html

    Of course, in typical CL flake fashion, the seller has two different prices listed in the ad. Either one should fit your budget. ;) Just tell your GF that it's not "old" it's a "classic".

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "Face it cars are heavier due to being bigger."

    Well, they have to bigger (and heavier) to carry around the typical American who now weighs 250 lbs or more. Can't budge that weight easily with a 35 HP VW Beetle or 70 HP mid-80s Civic or Tercel. Multiply that amount if someone is in the passenger seat plus some french fry eating monsters in the back and those scrappy 3 and 4 cylinder weaklings just don't have a chance. ;)

    Gogiboy
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    edited September 2011
    Nyc--

    I agree with you. I followed your link to the Corvette eBay ad and read this description: "hi, THE BUY IT NOW PRICE OF 51K IS FIRM, FIRMER AND FIRMEST, 51K IS MY BOTTOM LINE, i just have ay too much money into the car to sell for any less."

    Why do you suppose he has also included a "make an offer" button when he categorically states that he won't take lest that $51K? Oversight? Does it really matter what amount of money the owner has sunk into it? It will sell for what someone is willing to pay. It's kind of like saying I got a 95 Chevy Crapalier and I just had to put in a new engine and transmission so it would run and I could sell it. I need X amount. Just not going to happen in most circumstances unless it adds appreciable value to the buyer.

    Gogiboy
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    OF--

    I like how the seller is also willing to trade the barge for a sports car. Yeah, there's a good deal!

    Kind of reminds me of the apocryphal story of the guy looking for a new girlfriend so he places an ad in the classifieds. It read something like: Man seeks petite attractive female companion. Prefer 20s to mid-30s. Must love fishing and own her own fishing boat. In response please include picture of boat and motor.

    About 15 years ago I saw a classified in the OKC paper where the seller was trying to sell a beat up truck, but was willing to trade for a hunting dog (true story).

    Gogiboy
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    If I don't quit eating, I'll need a Hummer! At least I'm not up to the average 250 lbs. yet. I had no idea that was the average weight now. The school children now look like the Goodyear Blimp. I saw a school cafeteria menu the other day. Lunch on Friday was pizza, corn, and french fries! If they want to reduce student enrollment, they're off to a good start. :sick:

    Richard
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    250 lbs. isn't even close.

    The last study done by the CDC was in 2002 and the average Amercian male weighed 191 lbs. The average German weighed 182.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Or how 'bout this one with less than 1k miles per year.

    And a name like Scuderia...who on earth would buy that?

    Scuderia

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,217
    "...trying to sell a beat up truck, but was willing to trade for a hunting dog..."

    That's funny. Around here the local flippers/scammers are willing to trade some old jalopy for gold! :surprise: Their ads say "bring what you got".

    The only thing they left out was "and I'll meet you in the alley at midnight". :sick:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    from 2008...5% of males are over 250 lbs. 50% around 189 theysay, though the line looks closer to 180, but then I am not good at reading charts.
    image

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    5% at 250 isn't the "typical American who now weighs 250 lbs or more" noted by gogiboy.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    In the bring what ya got mole we bring you...... classified.

    Lyrics:
    I 'as thumbin' through the want ads
    In the Shelby County Tribune
    When this classified advertisement caught my eye
    It said take immediate delivery
    On this '57 Chevrolet
    Half ton pickup truck
    We'll sell or swap for a hide-a-bed an' thirty five bucks
    Call one four O, ring two and ask for Bob

    Well I called Bob up on the telephone
    He says "Hello this is Bob Speakin'"
    I says is this here the Bob got the pickup truck for sale
    He says "Yeah" I says where are ya
    He says "fourteen east on county twelve
    Turn right on the one lane gravel road,
    You can park in the yard, beware of the dog
    Wipe yer feet off, knock three times'n bring yer billfold

    Well I tooled on east on county twelve
    Turned right on the one lane gravel road
    And I parked in the yard and a German Sheppard come out'n grabbed onto my leg
    Then I knocked three times'n wiped my feet
    The dog let go an' the screen door opened
    And Bob come out'n says "whadaya want"
    I says I come to see yer truck
    He says "follow me...come on Frank"...Dogs name is Frank

    Well we all went passed the chicken house
    Through the hog pen and down to the tractor shed
    And then wound up in back of the barn in afield of cow pies
    And settin' right there in a pool of grease was a half ton Chevy pickup truck
    With a nineteen sixty license plate
    A bumper sticker that says vote for Dick
    And a Brillo box full of rusty parts
    And Bob says "Whadaya think?"

    Well I kicked the tire and then got in the seat
    And set on a petrified apple core
    And found a bunch of field mice livin' in the glove compartment
    He says "her shaft is bent and the rear end leaks
    You can fix 'er quick with an oily rag
    Use a nail to start her, I lost the key
    Don't pay no mind to that whirin' sound
    She'll use a little oil, but outside of that she's a cherry

    I says what'll it take
    He says "whadaya got"
    I says twenty eight dollars and fifteen cents
    He says "you got a deal, sign here
    I'll go get the title an' a can full of gas
    I put the nail in the slot and fired her up
    And she coughed and belched up a bunch of smoke
    And I backed her right through the hog pen into the yard

    Well Frank jumped in and bit my leg
    And I beat him off with a crowbar
    He jumped on out an' the door fell off
    And the left front tire went flat
    I jacked it up and patched the tube
    And Frank tore a piece of my shirt off
    Then Bob come out an' called him off
    Says "you better get on outta here

    I went left on the one lane gravel road
    Went fourteen west on county twelve
    Took two full quarts of forty weight oil just to get her to the Conoco station
    And I pulled up to the regular pump
    And then Harold Sykes an' his kid come out
    Said "I've seen better stuff in a junkyard
    And where'd you ever get that truck
    I said that's a long story Harold

    I'as thumbin' through the want ads
    In the Shelby County Tribune
    When this classified advertisement caught my eye
    It said take immediate delivery
    On this '57 Chevrolet
    Half ton pickup truck
    We'll sell or swap for a hide-a-bed an' thirty five bucks
    Call one four O, ring two and ask for Bob...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    edited August 2011
    Are you going to write a sequel?
    I was browsing through the want ads
    on Central Jersey Craig's... :shades:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    So where is everybody tonight? Rite Aid?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Nope BMW wasn't there. For that matter no high end nameplate was there which thinking about it is rather strange for a town where the average household income is in the 6 figure range.

    As for my phone number I have a second "back up" cell phone which is just a prepaid phone that I use for stuff like that. Calls usually just go to VM.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,378
    Well, in my next door neighbors garage. They just traded in an 11 YO civic for a new CRV (they have 1 child, about 1.5 now, and I would guess another in the near future). Chatted with the husband, and he said the Civic was starting to need stuff, so they did the deal. I think it is an EXL since IIRC it has a moonroof, but I did not look inside (and he said it had all the goodies). black over black.

    he did say they really seemed to be trying to move them, since they were giving out really good deals. at least in his mind!

    they stayed a 2 honda family (also have a gen 1 pilot). Lot's of Hondas in our row. I have 2 (3 with my sons acura), and the family on the other side of them also have a pilot and CRV (gen 2 I think).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I would like to know the average height of that 5%. I have a cousin who is over 250 pounds but he is like 6 foot a gazillion inches tall.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,217
    I jumped into the Eclipse to go register the Corvette today and IT DIED! It ran fine this morning but it was dead as dead could be. I hooked up the charger even though I figured the battery was too new (43 months) to be shot. Best I could get even at high charge was the old "click-click" of a dead battery.

    I made use of Mitsu's roadside assistance and got a free tow to the dealer who discovered the battery was indeed shot.

    Battery never gave any indication of being bad, very strange. You'd think the Eclipse was doing it on purpose to screw up my plans. :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Everyone is looking for their receipts so that they can go to Rite Aid.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    the graph represented a specific subset of the population.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    My point is that weight is just one part of the equation. Height is another.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    How about all weekend?
    Took a half day trip with my mom in her new Fiesta.
    First fill up averaged about 28 mpg, which was mostly short trips.
    Return trip 50 miles (80% highway, air on, cruise @65) 37+.
    Cleaned up the Mustang, changed the oil, fueled it up, put the cover on until next spring.
    Washed up the new Explorer. It took a looong time. It's big.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    See? Now you've made the Eclipse angry. This is just the beginning.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,378
    If he had to ask, obviously he never saw the movie (or read the book) "Christine!"

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,725
    I have lawn mowers like that. Some get mad when I buy a new one and won't start, or some get scared when I buy a new one and will finally start. :surprise:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    I would like to know the average height of that 5%.

    When I look at the chart it shows me people are at their maximum weight when they are 50 years old. The are lighter before that and after that...but mathematics, English, French, Chemistry, were not my strong points.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well I wasn't asking about age, but how tall they are. 250 pounds on a 5 foot 10 inch frame is a lot of weight, but on a 6 foot 6 frame its not all that much.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    250 pounds on a 5 foot 10 inch frame is a lot of weight, but on a 6 foot 6 frame its not all that much.

    Only if the two people in question are of average body shape.
    The 5'10" with a long torso and short limbs could be perfectly ok at 250lbs, whereas the 6' 6", if he had a short torso and long limbs could be somewhat overweight.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Lot's of Hondas in our row. I have 2 (3 with my sons acura), and the family on the other side of them also have a pilot and CRV (gen 2 I think).

    Your comment got me to thinking about the cars on our block, and how many of the homeowners drive 2 of the same brand.

    We have a family across the street with two Hondas (Gen 1 Pilot and a Civic), another down the block with two Suzukis (!?) - one an SX4, the other an XL-7 (last edition with the 3.6L GM engine). Another family has two Toyotas - one a Corolla and the other a Yaris (both stick shifts).

    Next door we have a Kia Sedona and a Hyundai Sonata - both bought this year, but bought used, not new.

    Lots of single folks on our block as well - we have two who own Nissan Xterras, one with a Tahoe/Yukon, and one other who has both a Gen 1 Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Miata.

    Not much in the way of expensive imports - I've seen an A4 on the next block over from us, and there is an early '00's Passat as well.

    The house at the end of the street has a pair of Cadillacs in the garage - a CTS sedan and a (Richard style) SRX.

    Oh, and there is a house with matching Subaru Legacy GT's, though they are different colors.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    The house at the end of the street has a pair of Cadillacs in the garage - a CTS sedan and a (Richard style) SRX.

    Interesting survey. Often when I see two cars the same in one household I jump to the conclusion that someone in the family works at a dealership.

    One set of neighbors has a Lexus but their some works for a Lexus (I think Toyota dealer but they are allowed to get Lexus's for a discount for family) but he says if it wasn't for that he would buy something else. He drives an Explorer truck.

    We have two BMWs. We both tried others and I was hoping my wife would like an A4 because it cost a lot less, but she liked the bimmer more. One good thing is you know how everything works when you go from one car to the other.

    A couple a few houses over have Jettas. His last one was a deisel, over 250k miles and was 12 years old when the engine went. He bought a new one, but his wife's is about 10 years old and is in perfect condition, just like his last one.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    but how tall they are. 250 pounds on a 5 foot 10 inch frame is a lot of weight, but on a 6 foot 6 frame its not all that much.

    I believe that since it is a random sample it would be made up of people of average height. I guess all the 5'2" people could be 130 and all the 6'5" people could be 250, so the average is 190, but I don't think it works that way.

    We need an analyst to read more into it, but on the surface I think it just shows the average weight of an American male is 189 pounds...which is probably true.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,973
    Its funny you guys mention the "brand loyalty" among your families/neighbors.

    At one time, a family gathering made the house look like a Toyota dealer.

    03 Camry
    05 Highlander
    06 Avalon
    05 RAV
    02 Corolla

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Battery never gave any indication of being bad, very strange.

    That seems to be the way they die now.

    Just last year at about this time of year Mrs. j called me and said her car (’05 XG 350) wouldn’t start, just clicked. So I told her to call AAA. They show up and said she had a bad battery. They did a test and gave her the print out where it read something like 10.8 volts. They gave her a start and she drives home (about 3 miles) and parks in the driveway. When I get home about 3 hours later I figured the car wouldn’t start but it did. It turned over just like a good battery would start a car. I took the car to two different auto parts places (Advance Auto and Autozone) that had two different testers and both tests showed the battery was in good shape. Two weeks later the car wouldn’t start when she was getting ready to leave the house. I just bought the best battery that Advance had and figure in another 5 years the same thing will happen.

    About 2 months later two different people I work with said they had the same thing happen to their battery and after hearing me explain what happened to Mrs. j’s car, they just bought a new battery when they got the first no start on a 5 year old battery.

    The only good side of me replacing the battery last Fall was that I knew it should be good for the upcoming Winter. Same with you.

    They just don’t make them like they used to. :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    I just bought the best battery that Advance had and figure in another 5 years the same thing will happen.

    I read a little while ago to replace your battery after 5 years whether it is working or not. They seem to go about then, and for the cost of a battery it is better to replace it then to get stuck somewhere unable to start.

    What does a battery cost for the extra savings if it will last another year...maybe gamble $20 that you won't be greatly inconvenienced.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Don't know if it is true or not but an independent mechanic told me that after 36 months, it's any body's guess as to the life of a battery. He said that you might make 48 months, but that you would never make 60 months.

    Richard
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,217
    "...they did a test..."

    The dealer did a test on mine and said that the battery was rated at 500+ CCA but this one was only putting out 32. What I don't understand is if the battery was that bad how did it start the car twice that morning with no sluggishness? Usually a battery gives you some heads-up that it is getting weak. If that's the way modern batteries die, I don't like it. :mad:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,217
    "...but you would never make 60 months..."

    The battery in my 1997 Chrysler that I bought in 2002 lasted until the car went to the crusher last November. For all I know it was the battery that came from the factory in 1997.

    I think taking the battery out of the engine compartment and away from engine heat makes a big difference. The Chrysler had the battery in the fender while the Mitsu's battery sits right up against the motor.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Usually a battery gives you some heads-up that it is getting weak. If that's the way modern batteries die, I don't like it.

    The battery in my L300 started to die slowly, so I had enough time to get a replacement before it died.

    The battery in my '06 ION is over 5 years old - car has almost 58K on it. Time to replace?

    I'm also on the original brake pads and shoes - no problems so far.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    You also got me to thinking about my neighborhood and who drives what. Out of 15 houses on our street, only three of us have two cars. One widower has three cars---Dodge Ram truck, CTS Cadillac, and a black 1962 Corvette. That leaves 11 houses with one vehicle because this is a retirement village. Most couples gave up their second car because they just didn't need it. Personally, I had rather have a back up in case something happens to one of the cars. Only two houses have foreign cars---one Toyota Highlander and one Lexus. The domestics include Ford Fusion, Chevy Impala, Chrysler 300, Buick Regal, Buick LaCrosse, another Cadillac CTS, and my SRX and Sebring convertible. A couple of the houses on the lake are vacation homes. I can't remember what the owners drive when they're here.

    It's also interesting that out of 15 homes on our street, 12 own golf carts. Each home, regardless of when it was built, has the golf cart garage as part of the main garage. It's a recessed area in the rear of the garage with double doors to exit and enter with your golf cart. Seven homes have boats to use on the lake.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "...while the Mitsu's battery sits right up against the motor."

    I bet that does make a difference.

    Richard
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I bet that does make a difference.

    You're correct. Apart from allowing a battery to go flat, which will dramatically shorten its life, heat and vibration are the main battery killers.
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "5% at 250 isn't the "typical American who now weighs 250 lbs or more" noted by gogiboy."

    Yeah, I was joking, but I meant to write 200 lbs, which isn't too far from the current average. Based on the trend just give us Americans another ten years and we should be well above 200. Why? Because of that American "can-do" attitude.

    Gogiboy
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "The 5'10" with a long torso and short limbs could be perfectly ok at 250lbs, whereas the 6' 6", if he had a short torso and long limbs could be somewhat overweight."

    I want to be a bit careful in my generalization, but I have seen a definite change in the student body (pun intended) at my university gym in the last 20 years. There are, of course, plenty of fit individuals--and they should be as the biggest percentage users are 18-24 years old. However, there are an increasing number of really big kids and I don't mean just tall. Keep in mind that these are the students who are making some effort to exercise so one would hope they don't just represent the new years resolution crowd.

    I read somewhere that right after WWII the avg. men's sport jacket size was 38 and his waist was 28 to 30. What must it be now?

    Gogiboy
This discussion has been closed.