Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Stories from the Sales Frontlines
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
But what is "less used?"
Car A driven for 100,000 miles at an average speed of 50MPH (mostly freeway miles).
Or Car B driven for 50,000 miles at an average speed of 25 MPH (mostly city miles).
Given that criteria, Car B's driver's seat has just as much butt time as Car A. Car B has been "on" just as long as Car A time wise. Up the average speed of Car A to 60MPH, and I'd argue it's far newer than the 50,000 mile car!
What do you think?
from the abuse.from the get go out of the GM factory.
Then why is a small GTI/A3 almost as heavy as an A4?
Why is a BMW 1 series almost as heavy as the 3 series?
Why are in general all subcompacts heavy these days?
That is right in line with what I was once told and what my own experience has taught me.
Back in the early ‘70’s I needed a battery so I went to Sears. They didn’t have the Diehard (5 year warranty) in stock for my car but I probably wouldn’t have bought it anyway because I planned to get rid of the car within 2 years at the most. This was back in the day when Sears did a “free” electrical system check when you bought a battery. While the guy was doing the check I asked him how long he thought the 48 month battery, that was just installed in another bay, by a different guy, would last. He took one look at it and said, “48 month battery...you’ll probably be back here in 3 years”.
They never give you what they claim. The gimmick is that you’ll probably go back to them when it’s on its way out because they’ll give you some sort of an allowance for it. Just like tires.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My experience with the older GM cars (60’s, 70’s and 80’s) was that the original Delco batteries would last at least 6 or 7 years.
I also noticed with these same vintage cars the original belts and hoses lasted longer than their name brand (Gates and Dayton) replacements bought at the local auto parts stores. GM had to have these components, built by these same manufactures, to better specifications. For some reason this never applied to the original equipment tires that I got on GM or Hyundai cars that I’ve owned.
When I needed tires for the ’05 Hyundai XG 350 in 2007, when I went to the tire store, just for the fun of it, “I said give me prices on anything but Michelin’s”. The guy said, “the Michelin’s I sell are in no way the same as the factory Michelin junk that was installed on your car when it came off the line”.
I think taking the battery out of the engine compartment and away from engine heat makes a big difference. The Chrysler had the battery in the fender while the Mitsu's battery sits right up against the motor.
I tend to agree that a battery that has to live in the environment of under the hood conditions is a killer. That means that the battery in my Genny will live forever because it is mounted in the truck in the same space that the spare donut is located. If you have to jump start this car or give a jump there are posts under the hood for that and they work because I have jump started a few cars from those posts. The first time the guy said, “hey, wait a minute. How are you going to help me? This car doesn’t have a battery”. :surprise: When I told him it was in the trunk he said, “show me”. I said, “do you want your car started or are you in the surveying business. Which way do you want to go”? He said, “OK, I believe you. It’s pretty cold out here”. Good thing that I look trustworthy because there was no way I was going to go through all of that to prove it to him.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No, this is why.....
Burger Kings new Pizza Burger containing some 2,520 calories, and 144 grams of fat. The Burger King offering consists of a beefburger the size of four of the chain’s Whoppers.
It is arranged like a pizza and placed on a nineand- a-half-inch sesame seed bun.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
At least they sliced into six pieces... :surprise:
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Cars? i keep hearing that it relates to safety standards, and largely because of the US (unlike other countries) needing to design around an unbelted driver. So, more structure = more weight.
Options loading (sound deadening too I guess) also helps pork them up.
But yeah, some subcompacts are really heavy. heck, I think a Focus can top 3,100#s now!
20-30 years ago small cars were actually light too. My 1985 Colt IIRC was 1,950#s or so. Probably good thing, since it only packed 68HP! My 1986 mazda 323 was a relative middle weight I guess, at probably ~2,200.
pretty sure now a Cruz weighs as much as my 2005 Accord.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
but dang, it is making me hungry.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
" They never give you what they claim"
They don't?
We routinely warrantied Sears batteries. If a five year Diehard lasted only 2.5 years, we prorated the battery and that customer would have received a new one for half price.
And, they usually lasted the duration of the warranty. The first two years seemed to be critical. If they made it past the two year mark which was usually the case they outlasted the warranty.
I remember once when we replaced the original equipment battery in a Buick that had lasted ten years.
I usually replace my batteries before they go bad. If the battery is pushing five years and winter is coming I like to replace them at MY terms instead of getting stuck someplace or having my wife get stuck.
I remember one batch (and it was a BIG batch) of Diehards that were made incorrectly. They didn't vent right or something and they would explode without warning. Made a hell of a mess under the hood and I signed a few refunds for engine details and repaints.
Had one blow up on a charging rack when I was doing inventory after the store closed one night. Six feet from me!
I learned many vehicles ago to listen to the sound when starting the car. If the initial impact sound as the starter begins to crank does not sound as tough as it used to, get the battery checked. If you leave the radio and interior lights on to read in the car, e.g., while waiting for the wife at Chicos, and the starter doesn't quite hit hard on starting, that's your warning.
Trying to get an extra year or two out of a battery is false economy.
Only a few companies make batteries in the US. As I recall shopping the last time, the battery at a large parts chain that is just pushing into W. Ohio with lots of new stores under one of their names gets batteries from Australian company. Whether they are made in Australia or not, I don't know.
I know Johnson Controls is one company making batteries.
Who are the others? Exide?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Then you can add in all the door beams that became commonplace in the 90s, the ABS/VSC/TRAC sensors, wiring, and computers. It all could easily add 3-400 lbs easily.
To go even further, add in all the other electronics, the ever growing wheel size and its easy to see why a midsize sedan can approach 4000 lbs these days.
Imagine driving these porkers on early late 70s / early 80s powertrains?
As for batteries the one in my 99 S10 is at least over 4 years and is a Delco battery. I wonder if it could be original? Either way, you guys have me thinking that maybe I should replace it soon.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I'm not sure that butt time would be my criteria for judgeing which car was less used.
The problem I have with evaluating a car is that you don't know if it was driven all highway or all city. I have to assume that for any two cars they were driven equally in both. In that case the car that was driven fewer miles would be better in my mind.
Miles in and of themselves aren't my only criteria. The type of car and age of the driver also factor in. I'd prefer a Mustang over a Town Car but I know that the TC was less likely to have been abused.
Even the "coolness" factor enter into my evaluation. While I'd like a popular model I know that the value lies in the less popular cars. Simple supply and demand.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
http://www.endthread.com/2011/05/old-couple-drifting-bridgestone-tires-commercia- l.html
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Battery warranties strike me as relatively worthless. If a five year battery dies at two and a half years I'm not really excited about getting the same thing at half price.
Many years ago (think maybe 1987) we had this old 62 Chevy panel truck that I had put a "lifetime warranty" Shell battery in. When the thing was in its death throes my brother and I are driving around in the snow from Shell station to Shell station trying to find someone who would replace it. Every so often we'd break and go home and call Shell about it. After countless attempts they send us to a guy 5 miles away where the mechanics stories of Shell corporate at the time were so entertaining it was worth all the fuss.
That has all the calories you need for a day and has twice the amount of fat you should have in a whole day. I would guess it has about 3X the amount of salt one should eat in a day.
I think if someone orders one you should have your phone programmed to call 911 immediately.
Your insurance provider should have a provision that your policy is cancelled if you eat one of these.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The A3 is almost 9% lighter than the A4 dispite being only an inch or two thinner and while the A3 is a foot and a half shorter than the A4 the A3 is a wagon (which by itself makes it heavier)
Why is a BMW 1 series almost as heavy as the 3 series?
Because the 3 series is less than an inch and a half wider about 9.5 inches longer and a bit more than an inch shorter than the 1 series.(328i coupe compaired to a 128i coupe). Not much of a size difference there.
Lets look at one make of cars, Hyundai. The Accent weighs in at just under 2400 lbs, the Elantra is 12.5% heavier than the Accent at 2700 lbs (the GLS PZEV because Edmunds puts the plain old GLS weight at 0.28 in. :confuse: ), the Sonata is 17% heavier than the Elantra at about 3160 lbs, the Genesis is 21% heavier than the Sonata at over 3800 pounds and the Equus at almost 4450 lbs is 17% heavier than the Genesis and 85% heavier than the Accent.
Each of those cars significantly larger than the previous car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think I will need a drink too!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I know you're joking but the insurance companies would do it if they could get away with it.
Big Brother is probably closer than we think.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I just got done spending 14 years in the car business
Ohhh snap. another win to you isell!
Richard
I think you are right. They have notes about you and those chipped ham sandwiches.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Toyota dealer where it has been serviced since new, says it is just fine and to leave it alone.
I am not too concerned as I have CAA and another car if we need to go somewhere urgently. I drive the Toyota almost 100% of the time so it will be me (not my wife) who would get stuck somewhere.
Perhaps I am pushing my luck, although another tough winter could spell the end of it.
Doug
That's interesting because my identical vintage Mazda3 with 32K on the clock is already on it's third battery. Then again, maybe it's only fair since you have had a number of mechanical issues and I have had none (other than the car being a magnet for other cars to hit).
In fairness to the battery maker, my car does tend to sit for prolonged periods in a hot--and sometimes cold--garage while I'm commuting by bike. The OEM lasted three years and died. The Napa replacement lasted just over a year and upon returning it to Napa tested with a "bad cell" and was replaced with an identical battery free of charge. So far, so good (fingers crossed).
My MR2 is driven even less frequently and has some kind of electrical gremlin in the radio/CD unit that, like a vampire, slowly sucks the battery dry. After the first battery kept dying I installed a trickle charger and haven't had a problem since. 11 years of ownership, two batteries.
Anybody know why the replacement battery(s)--which are the proper size recommended by the car manufacturer are a slightly different physical size (smaller) than the OEM? Is that common, given that they must be made to fit certain standardized holders?
Gogiboy
Had one blow up on a charging rack when I was doing inventory after the store closed one night. Six feet from me!
I was afraid of an explosion one time too.
I had a ’68 Olds that was only a few months old when I drove home from work one Friday night with a friend during an ice storm that turned a 30 minute drive into almost 3 hours. We sat in traffic so much that I noticed my head lights were getting pretty dim so I put on the parking lights when I was at a standstill. It was pretty cold but I had to turn the heater fan down to a slower speed too and sometimes I even turned the fan off. When I finally got home and parked the car, I tried to start it but it wouldn’t start. We were living in an apartment then so the car had to sit outside that very cold night. I went out to try again on Saturday morning and it almost started but wouldn’t. It had a pretty strong initial turn for a split second then nothing not even clicks. I took the caps off and looked inside the battery and it was so discharged that the electrolyte had turned to slush. I saw this a couple times before on aircraft batteries when I was in the Navy and I knew how you should go about charging a battery like his. I called my brother who lived a couple of streets away, got a jump start and then I took it to the dealer.
The dealer said he would replace the battery but he didn’t have one in stock. I suggested that he take one from another car and give it to me (because I knew what I was in for if it was going to be charged) but he didn’t like that idea and set out to charge the battery while it was in the car. I put an immediate stop to that because of the slush. I remember him saying, “don’t worry there SHOULDN’T be a problem” but I was not buying any of that. I insisted that he take the battery out of the car, put it near a heater vent long enough for the slush to melt, then give it a slow charge with the caps off, while it was OUT of the car and that’s the way it was done. It took about two and a half hours to charge that battery but it was NOT charged while it was in the car.
FWIW, that Delco battery lasted for more than 7 years. After that battery’s early brush with death I never thought it would last that long. Like I said before, Delco made some pretty good batteries back then.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Nah, I'd be more impressed by 24 years.
Nickel and Diming customers like this is penny wise and pound foolish...... is Audi listening?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I bet you had to change the oil after 5000 or 7500 miles. Junk! :P
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Only if you have the receipt. :P
Richard
Perhaps they shrink in the cold weather. :P
Richard
Richard
LOL!
Richard
That “bad cell” thing is not necessarily a single bad cell. It could be all of the cells are low and they say “bad cell” because that is what the testers used today are programmed to say. Individual cells on the batteries made today cannot be tested because the batteries are sealed and you cannot get to the individual cells to test them. Years ago you could test individual cells because the individual cells were jumpered via a lead strap on the top of the battery so testing individual cells could be done. It really didn’t mean much to find a bad cell other than the academics of it because if any cell was bad the battery was bad.
Finding a bad cell with the old vintage batteries was a popular electrical lab experiment but that was about all it was worth. Of course if you said you found a bad cell you better say which one it was or you failed that lab experiment. You had to be pretty poor at lab work to fail this experiment (although there is someone in here who could do it :sick: ) . It was essentially a gimme points type of experiment.
Anybody know why the replacement battery(s)--which are the proper size recommended by the car manufacturer are a slightly different physical size (smaller) than the OEM? Is that common, given that they must be made to fit certain standardized holders?
Battery technology is a lot better today than years ago so they can pack more power into a smaller box. I’m sure everyone has noticed the CCA (cold cranking amps) are a lot higher today than years ago. A 700 CCA battery is not all that uncommon today. I remember when 350 CCA was a powerful battery.
Another free technology session for your Edmunds dues.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Have you ever looked at the Genesis's battery? That thing is the exception to the rule. It is a beast, no wonder they put it in the trunk!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Although batteries fall under maintenance, it should be at LEAST every 5 years, certainly not every 3 years in this day and age.
My Honda battery went the full 50 months I had it.
Audi is not like Rite Aid though, they simply have skimped on warranty (wipers, batteries, tires, other wear items are only warranted for 12 months or 12,000 miles now). I want a TRUE bumper to bumper warranty back. No exclusions.
Granted, I was using 99 cent store jumper cables (which I didn't buy, but inherited from my better half). With my '06 A3 and my mechanics '81 Audi Coupe GT loaner car (got a lot of looks driving a 30 year old Audi
Is it just German cars that require a lot of juice to jump/start?
I agree it is big but for its power rating it is what I would expect today. Years ago a battery with that rating would have engulfed the whole trunk.
The bigger marvel is all the stuff that is jammed under the hood. I guess there is some breathing room under there for the V6 but not the V8.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Ah...the last thing I would try to do would be to impress you in any fashion.
Only if you have the receipt.
There is probably a record of him buying the car and returning it for battery failure on the security camera. :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Then I call my mechanic, and he says rev the car to 4K RPM and then try it. It worked.
You gotta get rid of those cheap jumper cables anything less than #8 AWG copper is not good. Don’t even consider aluminum. The smaller the AWG number the larger the wire size. I have AWG #4 copper. And longer wires are not your friend. Nothing longer than 12 feet with AWG #4. Longer that that you need AWG #2, then you’re into weight lifting.
You shouldn’t have to rev the engine to get the car to start with a jump. All that is needed is GOOD connections and a good jump battery. By revving the engine you are trying to compensate for bad connections by the little bit of extra volts you get by revving the engine and that doesn’t always work. There is no way I would rev my engine sitting still at 4K RPM. I’m just not going to do that. Think about it, when a car has a good battery and starts on a cold morning there was no engine being revved before it was started yet it starts. Why, because of a good battery with good connections. The old adage with electricity still holds true today. It ain’t changed yet ”clean and tight makes it right”.
I mentioned this before on one of these forums about jump starting a car.
If your battery is good and you have good connections on all jumper cables and you hear the car that is providing the jump really load down (the alternator sings loader than normal when a load is being placed on it like a bad battery will do in the car you are trying to jump start), you are trying to start a car with shorted cells and most car batteries can’t do this because there isn’t enough power in the good battery. I’ve seen this overcome when two cars get hooked up to a bad battery but I don’t like doing that and I won’t do it with my car. What I have done is disconnect one of the cables in the car with the bad battery and connected the jumper cable to that disconnected cable with no connection of that cable to the battery and leave that cable disconnected from the bad battery when the car starts. Now, the car that was jumped better not stall on the way home or to the parts store because that cable is disconnected and all you are running on is the alternator without the battery connected to the car. If it stalls you get to do this all over again.
I’m gonna start charging (no pun intended) for this info. Either that or my dues should be reduced
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl