Stories from the Sales Frontlines

snakeweasel

I had ours put in last year and the peace of mind is worth the $15k.

For me that would work out to be about $7,500 per hour for all the blackouts we have had in the last nine years.

mako1a

We moved here to the (Southwest Virginia) mountains with purpose.

Ve lived in Virginia Beach for 27 years and were without power for

8 to 10 days at a time from hurricanes more times than I can count.

That meant taking everything from freezer and fridge to the dump.

No more of that for me. Now, at 2,265 feet above sea level, all I could

do was feel sorry for the folks that had to endure the flooding that

seems to still be going on.

tcp2

The crux of the alternator running without a battery is found in its name: "alternator". It is creating an AC voltage/current (like your house voltage- a sine wave.) This positive and negative voltage is then rectified to create a series of single sided voltage (positive) waves. The problem is that the peaks of each voltage mountain are much higher than the systems on a car are meant to handle, so the average voltage output (RMS - root mean squared) is 13.8-14.2 volts. To get an average of 13.8v out of a full rectified AC signal, the peaks are 19.51volts.
What the battery does is absorb the higher voltage peaks and maintain voltage when it drops into the valleys of the rectified wave. Without the battery, you can get those 19.5Volt spikes through the car's systems and it can cause problems.

Check out full-wave rectification here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

and RMS here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square

mako1a

jmonroe, looks like you've met your match with all the alternator talk.

When a guy can translate a cars power source into a series of single

sided voltage (positive) waves, root mean squared and full rectified

AC signal, he's way over my head. I was amazed when they made

the radio keep playing after turning the car off (until the door opened).

explorerx4

I would never do anything that would cost you money.
If I were you, I would keep working on Richard about his will.

explorerx4

That is exactly what I am looking for my Mom!
I had been trying to steer her toward a battery backup, but that system is much better.
Their website lets you know who sells them within x miles.

driver100

Walked up to customer service, brought in the shirt - unwashed,
Ewww. You always returned stuff washed. It's just good manners.

I didn't want to wash it just in case they wanted to study it. Today I wore a good quality shirt that wicked perfectly...brings moisture to the surface where it can dry. The Wallymart shirt just sopped up the water and holds it.

I haven't received a reply to my email.

The shirt said "your satisfaction guaranteed".

The product wasn't satisfactory so it got returned. I showered in the morning so the shirt just had pure salt and water in it, no bacteria.
I used Irish Spring soap in case you were wondering :P

Which raises another point. Last year while in Florida I bought what I thought was Irish Spring soap at Little General I think it is called. It had almost the same package but had a slightly different name, Irish Summer or something. What a scam!

stickguy

that looks interesting. Do you splice the outflow into the piping for the main sump pump? I don't have any way to run a 2nd line.

A battery is fine. 4 days? I'm thinking more like 6 hours, maybe 12 in a real crisis. So 4 days, way more than enough!

fezo

I was thinking about that battery idea. When the hurricane was coming I was thinking about all my refrigerated medication. All was well...

oldfarmer50

"....I was quoted $10500,8500,7600..."

Pretty steep for a simple roofing job. I had mine done a few years ago for $2800. Of course I don't have one of those fancy mansions with peaks and turrets.

Maybe they saw all your fancy cars in the driveway and figured you could help them retire early.

Heck, I've done a few roofing jobs in my day, perhaps I should put in a bid.

oldfarmer50

"...That Lebaron might be worth $6500..."

Yes, but only if it has wood panel siding and is driven by a bald guy named George.

oldfarmer50

"...now, at 2265feet above sea level..."

If you have any slope to your land Google "French drains" and you may not need a sump pump.

mako1a

OF, stickguy has the sump pump in his basement. Mine is fine.

We have one in the root cellar out away from the house, but

it only comes on after a prolonged torrential downpour. My only

fear is winds above 75 mph. The last very high winds took down

my solar array, breaking the glass on one panel in the process.

mako1a

no new car for you, this year...

You're probably right. However, in 10 months I start collecting

Social Security which should be a $1,200/mo pay bump, if it's

still solvent. I just might beat oldfarmer to that new Mustang.

sterlingdog

"I worry that explorer may be sending me papers for an x plan so that I'll run out and buy a Ford..."

Let's see---10% savings on a $35k vehicle. That's a nice inheritance of $3,500. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

"When it snows do you get icicles?"

Usually no. It's just light and fluffy snow. Once every 5-10 years, we get an ice storm---really dangerous stuff if you live in the South. We are NEVER prepared for those because we simply don't have the equipment for it. I'm sure that we would get the ice dams and water then. In all of these years, we've never had a roof problem because of it. I'm glad that you shared that information with me. I learned something that I had never heard about in regard to roofs.

Richard

jmonroe

The crux of the alternator running without a battery is found in its name: "alternator". It is creating an AC voltage/current (like your house voltage- a sine wave.

IIRC alternators replaced generators many years ago because they produce more power for their size than the old DC generators did. Those things were at least twice the size of the alternators used today and they couldn’t deliver as much power. You should have told the folks here that the alternator in our cars is a 3 phase generating device and its gets its power because of that design. As you mentioned the alternators AC output voltage has to be rectified to obtain DC voltage for use by our cars and even after having to do this it is still a better voltage source then the old DC generators that were in cars years ago. But as you also mentioned, the rectified peaks are greater than the straight line voltage produced by a DC generator and these peaks can over an extended period of time cause problems but usually when large current demands are being placed on the cars electrical system when the voltage regulator has to do more work. Because of this additional work the regulator can’t always keep the voltage exactly where it should be. As with any regulating device there is over and under shoot but this happens most often when the loads are the highest. That’s why I said minimize the loads to only what is essential to get you home or to a garage. I don’t recommend driving countless miles with the battery not connected.

I would contribute to the RMS stuff but do you really think any of the people in here want to get into that.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

"day workers"

That is exactly what I wish to avoid. I asked the company owner if his entire crew spoke English. His response, "If they don't, I don't hire them." He said that most of his crew had been with him at least 10-15 years---a good sign.

Richard

sterlingdog

"Little General...Irish Summer or something. What a scam!"

Now you sound like Andres. Listen Dummy-Do-Little: You went to Dollar General, not Little General. If you want to save a buck, go to Dollar Tree. They sell the actual name brand products. Everything in the store is $1. We buy the Crest Toothpaste, Dove Soap, Jergens Hand Lotion, etc.---all for $1 each. That store saves a ton of money. They have those $5 padded mailers for $1, plus all kinds of neat things. Try it; you'll like it.

No more Wal-Mart shirts. You have better taste than that. If you can drive a BMW, you can buy a nice tennis shirt.

Richard

sterlingdog

As I said before, I did right much research. Because of the petroleum industry, roofing materials have gone through the roof (pun intended). Just this week, shingles went up from $85 to $97 for the 30 year architectural. I called to verify that statement. It will get worse before it gets better. I also live in a pricy resort area---everything is higher here. I have no turrets, but the roof does have three peaks.

$2,800? I would have flown you down here, put you in the guest room, and fed you three squares a day. How's your English? :P

Richard

sterlingdog

I see that you have returned here. While you don't have patience with businesses, you do have a pretty high tolerance for us. After all, we've been hard on you. Still, we're never going to let you forget the "receipt" episode.

I agree with you in that so many people never bother to do research or get more than one estimate. I have to because I am so technically challenged. Also, I have always tried to be careful with my money. Now that I am old and finally have some money, I still want to be careful how I spend it. It's funny. My wife and I dropped by a quaint sandwich shop in the village today for lunch. We ordered two chicken salad sandwiches and two chocolate milkshakes. Their milkshakes are so delicious. The bill was $21. When we left, I complained about the price. My wife said, "Now that we can afford such things, you're still raising hell about prices." I can't help it; it's just me.

Richard

snakeweasel

I showered in the morning so the shirt just had pure salt and water in it, no bacteria.

Don't forget potassium, calcium, magnesium, lactate, urea and certain other trace elements. It is a ggod medium to grow bacteria. And speaking of bacteria you may have taken a shower but you still had bacteria on your skin, its almost impossible to get rid of all bacteria.

oldfarmer50

"...How's your English..."

Muy malo.

driver100

If you want to save a buck, go to Dollar Tree. They sell the actual name brand products. Everything in the store is $1.

Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind for this winter.

If you can drive a BMW, you can buy a nice tennis shirt.

From the guy who likes to save a buck...and drives a Cadillac :P
I have to say, $21 for a chicken sandwich and a milk shake is a little extravagant!

We are off to London UK on a business trip. Then to Barcelona for 3 days and a cruise to Venice, Nice, Rome, Dubrovnik and a few other stops.

Will be back at the end of the month, might be able to check in once in awhile. Hope things go well Fezo, hope Andre keeps his receipts, hope Richard's new roof looks and works well, hope you guys get the battery issue sorted out, hope the 54 Ford works well.................

sterlingdog

Hope you have a grand trip; the agenda sounds nice. Give my best to Harrod's and the queen. We'll try to hold down the fort until you return. As for the battery issue, have you ever seen such brillance? Jmonroe, Mac24, Makola, nyccarguy, etc. leave me in awe. Though it's written in English, it's Greek to me. We really do have some very smart guys on this thread. They would make wonderful physics teachers and shop instructors.

Richard

jmonroe

They have those $5 padded mailers for $1,

Yeah, but who wants to go through lining out three or four previous addresses to use them? Although if you're a stamp collector that's a good way to add to the collection. :P

jmonroe

sterlingdog

Just stick with the battery talk. Leave the shopping to me. :P

Richard

fezo

Let's see---10% savings on a $35k vehicle. That's a nice inheritance of $3,500.

Oh, great. I can save my way to the poorhouse. It's really not that long a trip...

jmonroe

$2,800? I would have flown you down here, put you in the guest room, and fed you three squares a day.

What ever happened to that good ole Southern hospitality? Do you really think if 'farmer' accepts the job, he'd want to eat them too. Nobody could be that hungry. :confuse:

jmonroe

sterlingdog

"What ever happened to that good ole Southern hospitality?"

Even in the South, everything comes with a price. :P

I seriously cannot get over that battery talk. I always knew that you were pretty smart (though a tight [non-permissible content removed] ), but you have really impressed me on this topic. Though I didn't understand a word of it, the flow and thoughts conveyed in the posts would make a great deal of sense to those in the know. I actually enjoyed reading them. Funny thing. I used to watch "This Old House" every Saturday morning on PBS. My wife would say, "Why do you watch that program? You don't have a clue as to what they're doing." My response was, "I like to watch smart people do things. Besides, I might learn one or two things that even I could do." :P

Richard

jmonroe

I seriously cannot get over that battery talk. I always knew that you were pretty smart (though a tight [non-permissible content removed]

I hope we're over that battery talk by now. Pretty much beat that issue to death. As they say, "we'll have to agree to disagree". I'm all batteried out or should that be battered?

Thank's for the complement but I'm not nearly as smart as I am a tight [non-permissible content removed], and you sure don't hesitate to remind me of that. Around my house I'm also called a wise [non-permissible content removed]. Come to think of it, I don't really like the common denominator that's used to describe me. :mad:

jmonroe

mac24

My wife would say, "Why do you watch that program? You don't have a clue as to what they're doing." My response was, "I like to watch smart people do things.........."

I fully concur. Knowing how things are done, expands our knowledge and appreciation of life and the world that surrounds us.
For instance, knowing what was done and how they did it made my appreciation of my quadruple bypass so much greater.

Big things like that, and little things like being able to pull up the weather radar, or track a piece of mail, or chat to you guys all while I'm relaxing in my boat, leaves me with a constant feeling that I'm living in the future.

mac24

As they say, "we'll have to agree to disagree".

Yes, let's. I'm sure we could take it a long way further face to face, but it's way too much work when using a keyboard!

sterlingdog

"I don't really like the common denominator that's used to describe me."

It does seem a bit harsh. Perhaps I should say "cheapskate". Then again, if I wanted to be a nice person, I could say "frugal". Lots of luck on that one. :P

Richard

isellhondas

15,000 for a generator??

About four years ago, we had a rare power outage that affected a huge area. We lost power for four days and it was in the middle of winter.

It was nasty. Our store had no power except for our portable generators that wouldn't start at first and I thought my 80 year old mother in law might freeze to death in her home. I brought her hot coffee every morning.

It was miserable and a lot of people (in my opinion) really overreacted. They bought expensive generators and paid a fourune to have them installed.

We almost pulled the trigger on a small Honda generator that would have powered a couple of critical items but we didn't follow through.

That was the LAST power outage that we have had other than a couple of five minute blackouts.

sterlingdog

"Knowing how things are done, expands our knowledge and appreciation of life and the world that surrounds us."

Exactly. You stated it beautifully. I don't have to know how to put a new transmission in a car in order to appreciate the hard work and knowledge behind the effort. I've never been one to complain about car repair prices. The person that does the repairs went through training and has spent hours in labor fixing my car. I'm willing to pay for that training and time, plus I admire the person's ability to do it. As for $21 for two sandwiches and two milkshakes, I do complain. Perhaps that is because I know how to do both of those things. :P Again, I really was impressed by the exchange between you and jmonroe. You both are very intelligent guys, but you're not intellectual snobs. Heaven knows, I ran into plenty of those over the years at the college level. If half of those people had known half as much as they thought they did, I would have been twice as inclined to hire them at twice the usual salary.

Richard

fezo

I don't have to know how to put a new transmission in a car in order to appreciate the hard work and knowledge behind the effort.

You don't know how to replace a transmission and they let you drive? :P

I know just how to do it. Step 1 - have car towed the transmission guy. Step 2 - write huge check. Easy.

sterlingdog

You brought back such a memory for me. In 1968, we had one of the worst ice storms to ever hit the South. We had no power for a week. Our lovely land lady downstairs had a fireplace. We cooked over the open fire and took naps beside it to keep warm. We took small sponge baths to keep clean. I've never been so cold in my life. It just so happened that our pay day came during that week. My school principal rented a jeep and delivered paychecks to his entire staff! He was such a wonderful man. Years later, he moved to a brand new school. We were living in South Carolina at the time. He called us and asked us if we would come back to North Carolina and work for him. We didn't hesitate for one moment to say yes.

Richard

sterlingdog

Yep. That's how I do it as well.

Richard

driver100

Yes, let's. I'm sure we could take it a long way further face to face, but it's way too much work when using a keyboard!

Why don't you guys just take the battery cable off and then jump start your car. Put it on youtube than we can really see what happens.

oldfarmer50

Don't drink and drive.

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/2590977517.html

nyccarguy

Stickguy could install the Zoeller Backup System himself. He could buy a tee, length of copper pipe, roll of solder, a tank of MAPP gas (Propane will work on 1/2", I just don't like it for soldering), a torch head, cleaning brush, cleaning pad, & a ball valve. Actually, if he has CPVC water lines or PEX, he probably could do the job himself. I didn't mean that calling the plumber is his only option. Remember, I'm not a plumber. I'm just the guy behind the counter at a plumbing supply shop. Whether the homowner, contractor, handyman, or plumber does the job, I still make money;)-

Richard64 - Good job getting the 3 quotes on the roof! You'll be happy with the roofer you chose.

oldfarmer50

"...fed you three squares..."

"...Do you really think...he'd want to eat them..."

Ha ha ha. Good catch for Mr. jmonroe. If I ate three squares on a roofing job, that would leave quite a bare patch.

oldfarmer50

I expected to see these cars showing up after the floods.

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/2589901530.html

isellhondas

Richard, don't you know?

You are susposted to "allow" the transmission shop a generous profit of 10% on their labor while they sell you the transmission parts for their cost!

mako1a

OF, I'm actually glad to see those guys put that ad on a public forum

to remind people just how quick those flooded cars can be cleaned

and sold to unsuspecting buyers.

After seeing so many cars with water on the windshield filmed for

the news I was reminded...they have to go somewhere and it's not

just Halsp Worthington at the car emporium that is out to make a buck.

explorerx4

Isn't that Richard's old Cadillac? If you click on the link to the ad, click on the link near the bottom of it.

explorerx4

When I saw that system, I thought it was great, but then I wondered about the water supply to it.
Turns out there is an outside spigot in the same corner of the house.

stickguy

well, that sounds like a job for a plumber to me. I can handle plugging in the battery back up, which is probably a better option.

I'm not really worried about a multi-day outage. Just losing power for say 6 hours during a heavy rain.

mac24

Were there links in the earlier discussion?
If not here are three of different capacities.
No plugging in of the battery backup necessary as it stays connected all the time.



Pump 1
Pump 2
Pump 3