For the sales guys. When the manufacturer runs a loss leader lease program, how many people actually come in to grab the good deal, vs. still expecting to have you beat it by a ridiculous amount?
Most people understand that these kinds of ads can't be improved upon. Still, there are people who want more. Maybe 2-3%.
didn't pick up on the facetious but, IMHO, someone looking for a vehicle 6 months out IS in the market.
No they are not. IF someone is not prepared to take advantage of the current market situation, they aren't in the market. It is like saying, I'm going to buy a house next year, or I want to buy some Microsoft stock in 3 months. Planning to be in the market isn't the same as actually being in the market.
Well, doing research is no guarrantee that you will make the right decision. People do research and still buy the wrong car for them. Sometimes, the research parameters are flawed. In your case, you purchased 3 domestic cars, didn't like them and now a domestic is at the top of your list. You could spend a year researching and still be unhappy with your purchase.
That's not entirely accurate. I think those deals could be easily improved, by lowering cap cost. Manufacturers always advertise deals based on MSRP, so keeping everthing else the same the payment can be cut a bit.
Of course, most of those advertised deals have some large down amount, which I would not pay - so the final payment may eventually be even higher, just because it's structured differently. The total amount of payments can be cut, though if you get the dealer to accept lower price/cap cost.
Manufacturer's leases reflect manufacturer's "contribution" to the deal, if you will. Dealer's contribution is basically participation in most cases, which usually means no financial charge markups (like acquisition fee or money factor). Sometimes, they may require an actual price cut, but it's really rear. So if a dealer can "contribute" more, i.e. lower the actual transation price, the deal could be greatly improved.
So yes - count me into this small percentage of people actually expecting a better deal. Not that I leased anything yet, but if I did and decided on some of those advertised deals - I would expect additional "dealer contribution", unless I was convinced i could not get one.
“Well, doing research is no guarrantee that you will make the right decision. People do research and still buy the wrong car for them. Sometimes, the research parameters are flawed. In your case, you purchased 3 domestic cars, didn't like them and now a domestic is at the top of your list. You could spend a year researching and still be unhappy with your purchase.”
I still just cannot believe the number of posts I read where someone read ( in the course of some research ) that car X was particularly good. And they bought one. And then they post to complain, after the purchase, about things like the ride quality \ comfort.
Ride judgments are ( it seems quite clear, to me ) largely subjective. To make such a major purchase decision without expending the time & effort to drive an example, equipped as close as possible to the target vehicle, is absolutely beyond me.
For a vacuum cleaner or for a new kitchen oven ( for example: where one is not quite a major expenditure & the other is very difficult to ‘test drive’, unless a friend or neighbor happens to have a new example ) I pretty much go by consumer publications ratings. For a new car, or for a digital camera, the subjective judgments and the priorities appropriate for the intended use are also critical. Regardless of reviews published, I need to hold a ( potential ) new camera in my hands & use all the controls before I’ll spend hundreds of dollars. And I’ll certainly test drive any new car before I spend thousands. . .
But that’s just me. - Ray Addicted to research, I guess.
He's not one one of those places by Vine and Cross County/I75 is he? Even now, I drive past those places and see some seriously tapped out machinery on the way to Wyoming. That and Jake Sweeney BMW used to be on Galbrath and Vine... El Camino Real in San Jose has the same strip of BHPH places as well as Michigan Ave in the metro D-town area.
j....truth told, aside from playing golf with this guy every once in a while, I don't hang out with him. He certainly has a different view of people than I do (one that I don't particularly like). But, I assume it's a function of his work that causes him to be that way. Still, I'm not near the pessimist, nor the antogonist he is. There's just something about the large solid gold watch, the diamond pinky ring and his desire to make everything a wager, that doesn't quite sit well with me.
Those are my own prejudices, however. To each his own.
We play golf. I take a few skins. He takes a few skins. We both buy a round at the end. At that point, I've usually had enough.
lilengineer....he's at the place on Vine and I think North Bend....I think it's Hartwell right there.
No one, least of all me is saying don't do research. 6 months? C'mon. It shouldn't take anyone more than 30 days of effort to research and purchase a new car. Any longer and maybe you should be taking the bus. :P
Perhaps we are talking about different ads. I meant manufacturers ads, like Audi, Cadillac, BMW, Volvo, Saab, Subaru. All of those I have seen in their disclaimers are based certain configuration and are based on MSRP and (sometimes - rare) some lease cash also privided by the manufacturer. Better ones often have listed MSRP, residual, cash down and total amount of payments. There is no way I could misunderstand them. By the way I always, and I mean ALWAYS read disclaimers. The only ambiguity I could see is in "dealer participation may vary/required " or similar - if that includes some discount from dealer, it is well hidden.
I could imagine some dealers' screamers, where cap cost discount is already considered, but haven't seen one yet.
I think its a CVS and a Gold Star on that corner now...I haven't been that way in a few months (where BMW used to be). Now all the dealers are out by Fields Ertle or whatever that exit is off 71. Man, does that whole area suck...that is what happens when there is no urban planning.
In my 8 years in the business I have never seen a promotional lease from any of the manufacturers I work with based on a selling price of MSRP. Each ad mentions a car with a specific MSRP (you have to) but to get to the advertised payment, a dealer contribution is ALWAYS required. Sometimes on specific cars the margin may be higher, but the special payment is never reflective of us selling the car at sticker. The manufacturer isn't going to be the only one to compromise profit.
The 379 lease special Audi ran on the A4 back in December was a 300 dollar deal. To get to the payment on the advertised car, with the advertised MSRP, we had to sell the cars for 300 over invoice.
It shouldn't take anyone more than 30 days of effort to research and purchase a new car. Any longer and maybe you should be taking the bus.
I'm way outside your guideline 30 days for the new convertible I'm about to buy. Are you upset by the number of people who are browsing, i.e. early in their buying cycle?
If I was trading ( say ) an Audi A6 in on another largely similar but newer Audi – A6 or S6, or whatever, that might very well be a realistic number. There is even a realistic chance that I’d know the specific dealership where I’d shop, from both a sales & service perspective.
In my case, I was moving from a succession of sport sedans ( domestic & foreign ) to a ( significantly more expensive ) sports \ GT car. Made & sold by Chevy.
All of the sports sedans were designed to be ( and functioned fine as ) Daily Drivers. The Corvette is much, much more focused & makes compromises in the direction of handling ( for example ) that are entirely appropriate for the intended primary purpose, but entail trade-offs for commuting & “grocery getting” style use. This was just one of several questions I needed to answer, for myself, was whether I could reasonably use the Corvette in my daily use, as this would be my 1 & only vehicle. ( There are issues, but I have found that it can be done. )
Generically, I think if one is looking at buying something well outside their previous purchase history, it may take much longer than 30 days to achieve a comfort level with a new car purchase. And I certainly did not spend hours each day on research. But I did watch various forums for reports on reliability & problems with the new aspects of the C6 – particularly the new six speed automatic trans. introduced for MY 2006.
Someone like “volvomax”, who spends time on these forums ( as I do ) at least may be able to research efficiently. But many still do not utilize the ‘net – or such forums as Edmunds – to do any of their research.
Again, I’d say that 6 months may be somewhat excessive or obsessive, but that’s what I needed. And I used this & other forums extensively.
- Ray Very happy with the final purchase decision that resulted from the research . .
To all the sales people who think that 30 days is more than enough to buy a car - it isn't going to change, so get over it.
But seriously, I don't think it's going to change for a couple of reasons.
1) Anticipation and weighing up your various options is part of the pleasure of buying a new car. 2) A car is not a commodity to a buyer in the same way it is to the seller, it is a longish term emotional commitment.
On the other hand, I have recently been reading some research that indicates that consumers are generally happier with "spur of the moment" purchases than with more considered purchases. I'm not sure if this applies to cars as much as say flat screen TVs or telephones because the TVs or telephones will generally work for their intended purposes whereas if you buy an SUV when what you needed was a sedan you may not be so happy.
On the other hand, I have recently been reading some research that indicates that consumers are generally happier with "spur of the moment" purchases than with more considered purchases. I'm not sure if this applies to cars as much as say flat screen TVs or telephones because the TVs or telephones will generally work for their intended purposes whereas if you buy an SUV when what you needed was a sedan you may not be so happy.
I guess I must be really minority. I almost always regret an impulsive buy, even if it is $50. I also love all the "well-researched" stuff (virtually everything I bought over $100). I may still be looking what's up there and how much it is better than what I have, I can even crave new features/flavors, but ultimate math always confirms my choice was the best at the particular time, which puts my mind at ease.
I would go even further - I bought plasma TV this summer, which later dropped by about $500. I would have hard time to forgive myself if I bought it without proper research. Now I have have no problem with getting over it, as I have done everything I could at that time.
No one, least of all me is saying don't do research. 6 months? C'mon. It shouldn't take anyone more than 30 days of effort to research and purchase a new car.
While the salesperson may have to interact with that vehicle and customer for a few hours, that customer will be paying for that car for the next 6 years and driving it for the next 10 years or 150k or whatever. Customers are very sorry they use up some of your precious time while they try to make the best decision for their situation. I can agree with 30 days of effort, but those 30 days are spread out over 180 days.
Shoot, I have a 1988 Buick Park Avenue and 1989 Cadillac Brougham with immaculate engine compartments. I'm not hiding anything. I've had the Caddy since it was new and have just kept up with it all these years. Keeping the engine compartment clean makes servicing easier as it's easier to see things and your hands don't get all cruddy with grime. I'm infinitely more suspicious of a filthy engine. It should be easier to spot leaks, etc. on a clean engine.
when we bought my husband's car, we talked about it for a while (what we wanted/needed, options, etc) and then researched online. we were looking for a fun sport AWD hatchback. it basically came down to the subaru impreza wagon, or the saab 9-2x. we spent some time browsing online car shopping sites for used ones to see what kind of price ranges we were looking at. we'd go to dealers on sundays when they were closed to look. when we found one that was priced well below that, we called the dealership, verified the equipment, miles, etc, then drove out to buy. (the dealer was 4 hours away).
while the research online was spread out over a few weeks, we only went to a local dealer to test drive in the last two or so before we bought. we also called the dealers we didn't buy from to let them know that we were buying elsewhere, and that if we had any need for parts down the road, we'd be in touch (again, the dealer we bought from was 4 hours away, so we werent gonna go there for parts!)
i think that you can do research for a while before buying, but it doesn't make sense to test drive anything until you've narrowed down your choices to what you need/want, and are ready to buy within a couple of weeks. you won't remember how a car drives 6 months ago...
Wow! What a coincindence! That's pretty close to the way I clean my engine compartment and I didn't even know that was the preferred method. I never steam-cleaned an engine nor had it done.
ray....I think you hit the nail on the head. Researching is arbitrary. Some of us know exactly where to go to do our research....and, we pretty much have a method that works for us. The time frame is indeed arbitrary....for a variety of reasons.
Once I make up my mind what I want, when I want to buy, and what I want to pay, everything else goes pretty quickly.
For example....
--decide on the vehicles that will fit the purpose I intend it for (sports car, every day driver, a hauling vehicle, etc). Then I determine my budget. That narrows down my choices considerably --read all the reviews/reports, here at Edmunds, the car rags, MSN Autos, New Car Test Drive....among many others --look up dealer stock on-line (that's becoming easier and easier) to see which dealer(s) have what I want --go to the dealerships when they're closed to touch/look at their iron to find one, two or three vehicles that I'll focus on --determine the amount I'm willing to pay for those vehicles
That's all done without going through the dealership's doors.
Once I'm ready to pull the trigger, I go to the dealership(s) that have what I want, and are dealerships I trust, and make my offer. The least amount of time at the dealership is spent negotiating. Most of it is getting the PDI done (I usually don't wait around for that....I just have them call me when it's ready), getting the paperwork done and the sales presentation of the new vehicle by the sales person.
I use the cheap method of steam cleaning my engine. After driving the car for most of the day, when I return home I raise the hood and immediately spray cold water from the hose on the hot engine... voila... the steam cleans the engine and it looks like new again! :P
Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
"After driving the car for most of the day, when I return home I raise the hood and immediately spray cold water from the hose on the hot engine... voila... the steam cleans the engine and it looks like new again!"
Someone once told me that it is not good to spray cold water on a hot engine...they told me certain metals/alloys may be prone to cracking when cold water hits them (when they are hot). Don't know if this is true or not.
Someone once told me that it is not good to spray cold water on a hot engine...they told me certain metals/alloys may be prone to cracking when cold water hits them (when they are hot). Don't know if this is true or not.
It's not a very good idea. It is right up there with throwing hot water on your frozen windshield. Another very bad idea is adding water, right after you turn off your engine, when you overheat your engine. The best idea is to wait until it cools down or if you can get the radiator cap off without burning yourself, to add water while the engine is running. My brother added water to a hot engine when he was a kid. It broke the block wide open.
We acquired our last vehicle in November, 2005.. I've been shopping almost continuously since then for the next one.. Might get another one in two years.. or it might be next week...
I try not to waste a salesperson's valuable time, if I'm just browsing... but, if they treat me poorly, I won't be back there to buy..
I don't think I'm all that unusual in my buying habits... at least not among the members of this forum..
“I try not to waste a salesperson's valuable time, if I'm just browsing...”
This is another very valid & important point – one that I may not have specifically mentioned here.
I do respect the salesperson’s time. Trying to total up the time my sales person spent on my ‘deal’, best I can determine - about 2 to 3 hours. Just spread over several months.
That includes the 2 test drives, the order process and a couple of associated emails – and 15 minutes or so at delivery.
I will not waste anyone’s time. Even a really bad sales dweeb’s. I cannot begin to total the time I have wasted while sales people jerked me around over the years. Much less per ( eventual ) transaction recently, as I have better understand of how the process ** CAN ** work, and my patience has grown shorter.
If I was not conducting serious research ( for myself or on behalf of the many people I’ve helped buy cars over the years ) I would not take a sales person’s time for a test drive. There are many cars I’d like to test drive – but for one reason or another, I know I’ll not be buying one anytime soon. So – no ‘joyriding \ driving’ for me.
- Ray Never test drove a Corvette until July 2006.
I bet you keep the rest of the car in immaculate condition, too, so the engine compartment matches the rest of the car. On the other end of the spectrum, it would look a little suspicious if I had a work truck with quite a few dents and scratches, moderately cleaned up, but with a sparkling engine compartment.
I didn’t mean to imply, in post 7280, that a clean engine is a bad thing, when in fact, it’s a very good thing. I like clean engines but like I said, ‘in my neck of the woods if a private party cleans the engine of their car prior to putting it on the market they are probably trying to hide something’, or at least that’s the way it used to be.
Years ago, when I bought used cars they were only 2 or 3 years old and always had less than 30K miles. I’ve never seen a good engine under those conditions that required cleaning. Hence, cleaning these types of engines was a waste of time or you were trying to hide something.
BTW, I used the term “steam clean”, generically, and I know most places clean via pressure washing, with or without solvents and if you use the wrong solvent, which seems to be the norm, those solvents really pit aluminum components because they are caustic. You can always spot an engine that has been cleaned with the wrong solvent because the pitting never goes away. This type of cleaning, as has already been pointed out, wreaks havoc with almost everything it touches, especially electrical connections, hoses, belts, etc. So, if a problem didn’t exist before the cleaning it’s not that far away and guess who will have to deal with it?
Therefore, when it comes to cleaning engines, I subscribe to the motto; “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
... because it seems manufacturers seem to be using more and more plastic to hide just about everything from view and perhaps also disuade DIYers from touching stuff. :surprise:
Hum...I don't think spraying water from the hose would be any worse that driving through a puddle of close to freezing water and getting some of that splashed on the OUTSIDE of the engine. Of course, I would want to avoid getting much water on electrical stuff spraying on the top of the engine. And adding water to a hot radiator would be asking for trouble. I guess very cold water hitting very hot exhaust manifold might be a little risky.
I can remember a few years ago when we were discussing Jeep rotors warping...some folks were trying to blame that on driving through puddles and getting water on the hot rotors. IMHO, if I can't drive a vehicle through rain or over wet roads, I don't want it.
I use the cheap method of steam cleaning my engine. After driving the car for most of the day, when I return home I raise the hood and immediately spray cold water from the hose on the hot engine... voila... the steam cleans the engine and it looks like new again!
You'll do anything to see if 'rover' really quotes low prices, won't ya.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"The way I look at it is if the dealer took a vehicle in on trade and he didn't feel it was good enough for his lot I didn't feel it was good enough for my garage. "
I can think of a few reasons why a dealer would get rid of good trade in
1)Import dealer who doesn't want domestics on his lot or vice versa. 2)Gave a long term repeat buyer a very low price on his trade in and doesn't want the buyer to see car on his lot with a sticker 10K above his trade in. 3)Car on lot for more then 60 days, (overpriced, not in season etc, but otherwise a good car) 4)Can't be certified because miles 10K over the certified maximum and the dealer only sells certified cars
I'm way outside your guideline 30 days for the new convertible I'm about to buy. Are you upset by the number of people who are browsing, i.e. early in their buying cycle?
Not at all. There is a difference between browsing and shopping. The original poster claimed that people came in on a Sat, which is a busy day, were 6 months away from buying and wanted the salesman to take them on a demo ride. That is not browsing. Browsing is going in and getting a brochure.
I can think of a few reasons why a dealer would get rid of good trade in
You gave some reasons alright but do you really believe these are the norm or the exception?
Buy far, the majority of the time new car dealers don’t let the good ones get away. After all, these are his “money makers”.
In any case, you won’t be seeing me anytime soon at a BHPH lot. I still believe finding a good reliable car there is akin to finding a needle in a hay stack. It can be done, it just takes more time than I’m willing to spend.
Your choice,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
kyfdx....I think we can pretty much all say we're always in the market with most of the posters around here.
The difference, I suppose, is the motivator that makes us actually pull the trigger on somthing.
Kind of off-topic, but on HD Net, there's a program that's called "Appraise My Car". Interesting to see what some owners think they're cars are worth. Last night they had a totally original '63 Vette (first year GM made them). It was complete with the "blue flame" 6 cyl and the 2-speed auto tranny. It also had cracking paint/fiberglass body due to age. One appraiser pegged it at $200K as the value.
Another guy had an original '67 Firebird with a 326 V8, auto tranny with allegedly 9K miles. Supposedly, only thing unoriginal was the paint job. The owner swore up and down that the odometer was correct, yet had no supporting docs to prove it. I think he wanted $35K for the car. They appraised it (assuming 9k original miles, which was questionable) at $30K.
Another had an original '69 Z/28. Supposedly, the original selling dealer had fabricated some sort of concoction to put GM factory authorized rear disk brakes on it (which didn't come from the factory). Owner was vehement that the car would sell for near 40K based on the "authorized" disk brake feature. While those original Zs were hot cars in their day, I thought the guy was half crazed expecting to get $40K for it. The professional appraisers set the price at around $30K (which I still thought was nuts). Then again, I'm not a collector of old iron.
Yet another had a late '60s T-Bird that was totally customized (customized interior, paint job, it was lowered several inches). The builder said he had close to $200K in the car (it took 4 such cars to make one custom car). Too bad for him. The appraisers set the value at less than 1/2 that....under $100K.
The show originates from the car show in Carlisle, PA. Interesting show if you can find it. I got the opinion that all the owners trying to sell their cars were little more than snake oil sales people.
I dunno psorter. I'm with jmonroe on this. Dealers don't take trades that they can't make money on. I don't care if it's an import dealer with some domestics on his lot, or if it's certified or not. If they believe they can make a buck on a car, they're going to put it on the lot.
They also know that if they have to take it to auction, they want to make money on the auction block, too. I think that's the main reason people here get upset at the trade values. They don't realize that even to take a car to the auctions, there's a cost involved...which is the entire reason most get less than auction value.
While this is a unique situation, a couple of years ago, I ordered the then new '05 Mustang GT. I found a dealer who would let me order one at the Ford family discount (based on my sister being a Ford employee, at the time). This was when the new Mustang was going at and above sticker, all over the country. I finally sold it to a guy who couldn't find a GT for less than MSRP. I sold mine to him for about $500 less than MSRP (used), but well above what I paid for it. He traded it in on a new Explorer (I know the dealer principle...he said the guy took a bath on the trade). They sold it again, for a tidy profit.
Just saw my Mustang at a Chevy dealer. Asked the dealer how they came upon it. They said the owner traded it in on a new 'vette. It's the same car I had two years ago. It's bounced around from 3 owners (me and two others) and 2 dealers (the same Ford dealer sold it twice....once to me new, and once to the guy who traded it for an Explorer). Nothing wrong with the car. It's got less than 10K on the odo (of which about 3K miles are mine). Still looks brand new.
Fact is, each of the dealers could make money on it. That's the reason they put it on their lot.
5 - car is too old to be certified. Or they have a policy of nothing more than say, 5 years old. 6 - the car is a direct competitor. This is why you rarely see BMWs on Mercedes lots and vice versa. 7 - Profit margin is too small to make it worth their while. 8 - no room on the lot, physically, or they had a better car come in. A 2-3 year old Corvette versus a used Civic... No brainer which gets the boot when space is too tight.
All sorts of reasons - and I'm sure there are many more as well.
q....yeah, it's a hi-def channel. I've got Time-Warner, an HD cable box and an HD TV. HD Net has 4 channels of nothing but Hi-Def programming. They produce some of their own shows (like "Appraise My Car") and show movies in hi-def, 5.1 surround sound. Some of the regular channels (Fox, TBS, ABC, NBC, CBS) broadcast some shows in hi-def, but not all. Some PBS shows are in hi-def, too.
HD Net has lots of "guy stuff" in HD. Car shows, motorcyle shows, sports.
HD give stunning pic quality. It's still pretty much a standard definition world, though. While I enjoy HD, it cost me a bundle to get the speakers, surround sound electronics, and the HD TV all bought and set up. Given the chance to do it over again, I think I'd wait a couple more years until HD becomes more prevalent.
Comments
Most people understand that these kinds of ads can't be improved upon.
Still, there are people who want more. Maybe 2-3%.
No they are not.
IF someone is not prepared to take advantage of the current market situation, they aren't in the market.
It is like saying, I'm going to buy a house next year, or I want to buy some Microsoft stock in 3 months.
Planning to be in the market isn't the same as actually being in the market.
Land Rover has a 599 lease program out right now on LR3s which is a very agressive lease for a 51,000 dollar vehicle.
Most people bring in the add and ask if it is correct. Sometimes people bring in the ad and want to know how much we can beat the price by. :confuse:
People do research and still buy the wrong car for them.
Sometimes, the research parameters are flawed.
In your case, you purchased 3 domestic cars, didn't like them and now a domestic is at the top of your list.
You could spend a year researching and still be unhappy with your purchase.
Of course, most of those advertised deals have some large down amount, which I would not pay - so the final payment may eventually be even higher, just because it's structured differently. The total amount of payments can be cut, though if you get the dealer to accept lower price/cap cost.
Manufacturer's leases reflect manufacturer's "contribution" to the deal, if you will. Dealer's contribution is basically participation in most cases, which usually means no financial charge markups (like acquisition fee or money factor). Sometimes, they may require an actual price cut, but it's really rear. So if a dealer can "contribute" more, i.e. lower the actual transation price, the deal could be greatly improved.
So yes - count me into this small percentage of people actually expecting a better deal. Not that I leased anything yet, but if I did and decided on some of those advertised deals - I would expect additional "dealer contribution", unless I was convinced i could not get one.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The lease I was just talking about has a dealer contribution of 2,600 dollars or so.
And, why? who looks under there anyway? Unless the engine is leaking oil, it should stay pretty clean on it's own.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
People do research and still buy the wrong car for them.
Sometimes, the research parameters are flawed.
In your case, you purchased 3 domestic cars, didn't like them and now a domestic is at the top of your list.
You could spend a year researching and still be unhappy with your purchase.”
I still just cannot believe the number of posts I read where someone read ( in the course of some research ) that car X was particularly good. And they bought one. And then they post to complain, after the purchase, about things like the ride quality \ comfort.
Ride judgments are ( it seems quite clear, to me ) largely subjective. To make such a major purchase decision without expending the time & effort to drive an example, equipped as close as possible to the target vehicle, is absolutely beyond me.
For a vacuum cleaner or for a new kitchen oven ( for example: where one is not quite a major expenditure & the other is very difficult to ‘test drive’, unless a friend or neighbor happens to have a new example ) I pretty much go by consumer publications ratings. For a new car, or for a digital camera, the subjective judgments and the priorities appropriate for the intended use are also critical. Regardless of reviews published, I need to hold a ( potential ) new camera in my hands & use all the controls before I’ll spend hundreds of dollars. And I’ll certainly test drive any new car before I spend thousands. . .
But that’s just me.
- Ray
Addicted to research, I guess.
A guy (buddy) like this must be worth his weight in GOLD. Which takes me to my next point.
He's got great stories to tell on the 19th hole, however.
Yeah .... but how many times does he buy at this hole?
Other than here, after a while stories, alone, get old.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
El Camino Real in San Jose has the same strip of BHPH places as well as Michigan Ave in the metro D-town area.
Those are my own prejudices, however. To each his own.
We play golf. I take a few skins. He takes a few skins. We both buy a round at the end. At that point, I've usually had enough.
lilengineer....he's at the place on Vine and I think North Bend....I think it's Hartwell right there.
NO, most of them don't.
Maybe BMW's lease ads are set at MSRP.
But most of the screamer ads are at steep discounts.
6 months?
C'mon.
It shouldn't take anyone more than 30 days of effort to research and purchase a new car.
Any longer and maybe you should be taking the bus. :P
I could imagine some dealers' screamers, where cap cost discount is already considered, but haven't seen one yet.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Wow.. that takes me back..
And, Jake Sweeney BMW/Mazda at Vine and Galbraith... When I was in high school, we went there to drool on cars.. especially the original RX-7..
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2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now all the dealers are out by Fields Ertle or whatever that exit is off 71. Man, does that whole area suck...that is what happens when there is no urban planning.
(Thanks for the memories...)
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The 379 lease special Audi ran on the A4 back in December was a 300 dollar deal. To get to the payment on the advertised car, with the advertised MSRP, we had to sell the cars for 300 over invoice.
I'm way outside your guideline 30 days for the new convertible I'm about to buy. Are you upset by the number of people who are browsing, i.e. early in their buying cycle?
Why not? Did I miss something again?
tidester, host
If I was trading ( say ) an Audi A6 in on another largely similar but newer Audi – A6 or S6, or whatever, that might very well be a realistic number. There is even a realistic chance that I’d know the specific dealership where I’d shop, from both a sales & service perspective.
In my case, I was moving from a succession of sport sedans ( domestic & foreign ) to a ( significantly more expensive ) sports \ GT car. Made & sold by Chevy.
All of the sports sedans were designed to be ( and functioned fine as ) Daily Drivers. The Corvette is much, much more focused & makes compromises in the direction of handling ( for example ) that are entirely appropriate for the intended primary purpose, but entail trade-offs for commuting & “grocery getting” style use. This was just one of several questions I needed to answer, for myself, was whether I could reasonably use the Corvette in my daily use, as this would be my 1 & only vehicle. ( There are issues, but I have found that it can be done. )
Generically, I think if one is looking at buying something well outside their previous purchase history, it may take much longer than 30 days to achieve a comfort level with a new car purchase. And I certainly did not spend hours each day on research. But I did watch various forums for reports on reliability & problems with the new aspects of the C6 – particularly the new six speed automatic trans. introduced for MY 2006.
Someone like “volvomax”, who spends time on these forums ( as I do ) at least may be able to research efficiently. But many still do not utilize the ‘net – or such forums as Edmunds – to do any of their research.
Again, I’d say that 6 months may be somewhat excessive or obsessive, but that’s what I needed. And I used this & other forums extensively.
- Ray
Very happy with the final purchase decision that resulted from the research . .
But seriously, I don't think it's going to change for a couple of reasons.
1) Anticipation and weighing up your various options is part of the pleasure of buying a new car.
2) A car is not a commodity to a buyer in the same way it is to the seller, it is a longish term emotional commitment.
On the other hand, I have recently been reading some research that indicates that consumers are generally happier with "spur of the moment" purchases than with more considered purchases. I'm not sure if this applies to cars as much as say flat screen TVs or telephones because the TVs or telephones will generally work for their intended purposes whereas if you buy an SUV when what you needed was a sedan you may not be so happy.
I guess I must be really minority. I almost always regret an impulsive buy, even if it is $50. I also love all the "well-researched" stuff (virtually everything I bought over $100). I may still be looking what's up there and how much it is better than what I have, I can even crave new features/flavors, but ultimate math always confirms my choice was the best at the particular time, which puts my mind at ease.
I would go even further - I bought plasma TV this summer, which later dropped by about $500. I would have hard time to forgive myself if I bought it without proper research. Now I have have no problem with getting over it, as I have done everything I could at that time.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
6 months?
C'mon.
It shouldn't take anyone more than 30 days of effort to research and purchase a new car.
While the salesperson may have to interact with that vehicle and customer for a few hours, that customer will be paying for that car for the next 6 years and driving it for the next 10 years or 150k or whatever.
Customers are very sorry they use up some of your precious time while they try to make the best decision for their situation.
I can agree with 30 days of effort, but those 30 days are spread out over 180 days.
while the research online was spread out over a few weeks, we only went to a local dealer to test drive in the last two or so before we bought. we also called the dealers we didn't buy from to let them know that we were buying elsewhere, and that if we had any need for parts down the road, we'd be in touch (again, the dealer we bought from was 4 hours away, so we werent gonna go there for parts!)
i think that you can do research for a while before buying, but it doesn't make sense to test drive anything until you've narrowed down your choices to what you need/want, and are ready to buy within a couple of weeks. you won't remember how a car drives 6 months ago...
anyways, my two cents...everyone's different!
-thene
Once I make up my mind what I want, when I want to buy, and what I want to pay, everything else goes pretty quickly.
For example....
--decide on the vehicles that will fit the purpose I intend it for (sports car, every day driver, a hauling vehicle, etc). Then I determine my budget. That narrows down my choices considerably
--read all the reviews/reports, here at Edmunds, the car rags, MSN Autos, New Car Test Drive....among many others
--look up dealer stock on-line (that's becoming easier and easier) to see which dealer(s) have what I want
--go to the dealerships when they're closed to touch/look at their iron to find one, two or three vehicles that I'll focus on
--determine the amount I'm willing to pay for those vehicles
That's all done without going through the dealership's doors.
Once I'm ready to pull the trigger, I go to the dealership(s) that have what I want, and are dealerships I trust, and make my offer. The least amount of time at the dealership is spent negotiating. Most of it is getting the PDI done (I usually don't wait around for that....I just have them call me when it's ready), getting the paperwork done and the sales presentation of the new vehicle by the sales person.
Mark156
Someone once told me that it is not good to spray cold water on a hot engine...they told me certain metals/alloys may be prone to cracking when cold water hits them (when they are hot). Don't know if this is true or not.
It's not a very good idea. It is right up there with throwing hot water on your frozen windshield. Another very bad idea is adding water, right after you turn off your engine, when you overheat your engine. The best idea is to wait until it cools down or if you can get the radiator cap off without burning yourself, to add water while the engine is running. My brother added water to a hot engine when he was a kid. It broke the block wide open.
Written tongue in cheek I sincerely hope!
I try not to waste a salesperson's valuable time, if I'm just browsing... but, if they treat me poorly, I won't be back there to buy..
I don't think I'm all that unusual in my buying habits... at least not among the members of this forum..
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Edmunds Moderator
This is another very valid & important point – one that I may not have specifically mentioned here.
I do respect the salesperson’s time. Trying to total up the time my sales person spent on my ‘deal’, best I can determine - about 2 to 3 hours. Just spread over several months.
That includes the 2 test drives, the order process and a couple of associated emails – and 15 minutes or so at delivery.
I will not waste anyone’s time. Even a really bad sales dweeb’s. I cannot begin to total the time I have wasted while sales people jerked me around over the years. Much less per ( eventual ) transaction recently, as I have better understand of how the process ** CAN ** work, and my patience has grown shorter.
If I was not conducting serious research ( for myself or on behalf of the many people I’ve helped buy cars over the years ) I would not take a sales person’s time for a test drive. There are many cars I’d like to test drive – but for one reason or another, I know I’ll not be buying one anytime soon. So – no ‘joyriding \ driving’ for me.
- Ray
Never test drove a Corvette until July 2006.
Years ago, when I bought used cars they were only 2 or 3 years old and always had less than 30K miles. I’ve never seen a good engine under those conditions that required cleaning. Hence, cleaning these types of engines was a waste of time or you were trying to hide something.
BTW, I used the term “steam clean”, generically, and I know most places clean via pressure washing, with or without solvents and if you use the wrong solvent, which seems to be the norm, those solvents really pit aluminum components because they are caustic. You can always spot an engine that has been cleaned with the wrong solvent because the pitting never goes away. This type of cleaning, as has already been pointed out, wreaks havoc with almost everything it touches, especially electrical connections, hoses, belts, etc. So, if a problem didn’t exist before the cleaning it’s not that far away and guess who will have to deal with it?
Therefore, when it comes to cleaning engines, I subscribe to the motto; “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I can remember a few years ago when we were discussing Jeep rotors warping...some folks were trying to blame that on driving through puddles and getting water on the hot rotors. IMHO, if I can't drive a vehicle through rain or over wet roads, I don't want it.
You'll do anything to see if 'rover' really quotes low prices, won't ya.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I can think of a few reasons why a dealer would get rid of good trade in
1)Import dealer who doesn't want domestics on his lot or vice versa.
2)Gave a long term repeat buyer a very low price on his trade in and doesn't want the buyer to see car on his lot with a sticker 10K above his trade in.
3)Car on lot for more then 60 days, (overpriced, not in season etc, but otherwise a good car)
4)Can't be certified because miles 10K over the certified maximum and the dealer only sells certified cars
any others??
Not at all.
There is a difference between browsing and shopping.
The original poster claimed that people came in on a Sat, which is a busy day, were 6 months away from buying and wanted the salesman to take them on a demo ride.
That is not browsing.
Browsing is going in and getting a brochure.
You gave some reasons alright but do you really believe these are the norm or the exception?
Buy far, the majority of the time new car dealers don’t let the good ones get away. After all, these are his “money makers”.
In any case, you won’t be seeing me anytime soon at a BHPH lot. I still believe finding a good reliable car there is akin to finding a needle in a hay stack. It can be done, it just takes more time than I’m willing to spend.
Your choice,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The difference, I suppose, is the motivator that makes us actually pull the trigger on somthing.
Kind of off-topic, but on HD Net, there's a program that's called "Appraise My Car". Interesting to see what some owners think they're cars are worth. Last night they had a totally original '63 Vette (first year GM made them). It was complete with the "blue flame" 6 cyl and the 2-speed auto tranny. It also had cracking paint/fiberglass body due to age. One appraiser pegged it at $200K as the value.
Another guy had an original '67 Firebird with a 326 V8, auto tranny with allegedly 9K miles. Supposedly, only thing unoriginal was the paint job. The owner swore up and down that the odometer was correct, yet had no supporting docs to prove it. I think he wanted $35K for the car. They appraised it (assuming 9k original miles, which was questionable) at $30K.
Another had an original '69 Z/28. Supposedly, the original selling dealer had fabricated some sort of concoction to put GM factory authorized rear disk brakes on it (which didn't come from the factory). Owner was vehement that the car would sell for near 40K based on the "authorized" disk brake feature. While those original Zs were hot cars in their day, I thought the guy was half crazed expecting to get $40K for it. The professional appraisers set the price at around $30K (which I still thought was nuts). Then again, I'm not a collector of old iron.
Yet another had a late '60s T-Bird that was totally customized (customized interior, paint job, it was lowered several inches). The builder said he had close to $200K in the car (it took 4 such cars to make one custom car). Too bad for him. The appraisers set the value at less than 1/2 that....under $100K.
The show originates from the car show in Carlisle, PA. Interesting show if you can find it. I got the opinion that all the owners trying to sell their cars were little more than snake oil sales people.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They also know that if they have to take it to auction, they want to make money on the auction block, too. I think that's the main reason people here get upset at the trade values. They don't realize that even to take a car to the auctions, there's a cost involved...which is the entire reason most get less than auction value.
While this is a unique situation, a couple of years ago, I ordered the then new '05 Mustang GT. I found a dealer who would let me order one at the Ford family discount (based on my sister being a Ford employee, at the time). This was when the new Mustang was going at and above sticker, all over the country. I finally sold it to a guy who couldn't find a GT for less than MSRP. I sold mine to him for about $500 less than MSRP (used), but well above what I paid for it. He traded it in on a new Explorer (I know the dealer principle...he said the guy took a bath on the trade). They sold it again, for a tidy profit.
Just saw my Mustang at a Chevy dealer. Asked the dealer how they came upon it. They said the owner traded it in on a new 'vette. It's the same car I had two years ago. It's bounced around from 3 owners (me and two others) and 2 dealers (the same Ford dealer sold it twice....once to me new, and once to the guy who traded it for an Explorer). Nothing wrong with the car. It's got less than 10K on the odo (of which about 3K miles are mine). Still looks brand new.
Fact is, each of the dealers could make money on it. That's the reason they put it on their lot.
6 - the car is a direct competitor. This is why you rarely see BMWs on Mercedes lots and vice versa.
7 - Profit margin is too small to make it worth their while.
8 - no room on the lot, physically, or they had a better car come in. A 2-3 year old Corvette versus a used Civic... No brainer which gets the boot when space is too tight.
All sorts of reasons - and I'm sure there are many more as well.
HD Net has lots of "guy stuff" in HD. Car shows, motorcyle shows, sports.
HD give stunning pic quality. It's still pretty much a standard definition world, though. While I enjoy HD, it cost me a bundle to get the speakers, surround sound electronics, and the HD TV all bought and set up. Given the chance to do it over again, I think I'd wait a couple more years until HD becomes more prevalent.