Stories from the Sales Frontlines

cole

One of his son's has actually purchased the dealerships from Jake (at least the BMW one for sure). The new owner's son played lacrosse for me a couple years ago. Nice family.

mikefm58

Is this a new BS fee?

Yep.....Florida dealers are notorious for adding on fees.

madmanmoo

Actually, the inspector has no say at all.???

Then what exactly is the point of him doing the inspection?

The lease company doesn't look at the vehicle until it is turned in. Where are you getting your information from?

The only person you need to worry about at the end of your lease is the inspector.

-Moo

madmanmoo

This is a perfect example of waiting on the inspector. Thanks for the example, Explorerx4.

-Moo

volvomax

For the last time.
The inspector is a 3rd party individual.
ALL he does is make a report on the cars condition.
Obviously, if there is NOTHING wrong with the car, the lease co. won't charge you anything.
IF his report turns up damage, it is up to the lease co. to determine if it is excessive.
The inspector submits pictures and a report on the size of the damage, but he makes no recommendations as to whether or not the lease co. should or should not charge the lessee for it.
The inspector can give you his personal opinion, but you can't take it to the bank.

kyfdx

On a Honda lease, the inspector puts a dollar amount on any damage.. He has software that tells him how much to charge for worn tires, etc, etc.. He produces a printout that includes the lease-end charges.

BMW dealers have an in-house person that does the inspections at turn-in. They also do the paperwork that includes the charges.

Granted, the bank/finance/leasing company has the final say, but if you have the documentation, they'll have a hard time coming up with any other number.

Perhaps Volvo Finance treats their customers differently, but the only time I've had any substantial charges at turn-in was with Chase Bank.. and those were legitimate, if nit-picking.

In general, I feel no one has anything to fear from a captive/mfr.sponsored finance company, as far as egregious charges at lease end. I'd be interested to hear from others that have a different experience.

regards,
kyfdx
not the host here

abraindrainer

Did you know women have lower accident rates than men? What does that say about your observations? Women scratch their cars at parking lots men hurt themselves when they wrap their vehicle around a tree?

oldfarmer50

For what it's worth, my son has totaled TWO of my cars in the last year while his mother who has had a stroke continues to drive without so much as a scratch.

volvomax

Honda and BMW have in-house personnel.
Volvo Finance, Chase, US Bank contract 3rd party inspectors.
They don't assign a dollar value.
Huntington doesn't do a pre-term inspection.
Neither does M&I I believe.

VFNA offers $1000 of wear insurance with their leases.
Wells Fargo will sell you a wear ins policy.

tidester

Did you know women have lower accident rates than men?

That appears to be true only for the very young (16-25 years) according to this. Here's a breakdown: Fatalities per 100 Million

tidester, host

grandtotal

Hey, don't go messing with people's prejudices. Especially don't go confusing the issue with facts.

tidester

Especially don't go confusing the issue with facts.

Please accept my most humble apologies!

tidester, host

lilengineerboy

Did you know women have lower accident rates than men?

That appears to be true only for the very young (16-25 years) according to this. Here's a breakdown: Fatalities per 100 Million

tidester, host

That is for fatialities, not crashes. It also isn't normalized for miles travelled. The report was from an insurance company, the guys who charge you. Just keep that in the back of your mind.

tidester

That is for fatialities, not crashes.

That is correct.

It also isn't normalized for miles travelled.

That is also correct. The second link indicates that men drive about twice the number of miles women drive but have about twice the fatalities which brings the rates into relative parity.

from an insurance company, the guys who charge you

Follow the MONEY!!

tidester, host

driveright

What does that say about your observations? Women scratch their cars at parking lots men hurt themselves when they wrap their vehicle around a tree?

I guess it means that I would rather be in the company of male drivers in the parking lot and female drivers on the highway.

Thanks for the data, Tidester.

For what it's worth, the discussion started when someone commented that his wife had trouble pulling her car into their garage without scraping up the car.

kyfdx

Recently, there was an article in my local paper about those stats...

It said the high fatality rate for elderly women was mostly attibutable to their frailty, relative to the general population. Even a minor accident could cause their demise.

Of course, if you've ever seen my mother drive, you would think the fatality rate for any pedestrian in Arkansas would be off the charts!!

graphicguy

I've done quite a bit of business with the Sweeney's. I've mentioned that Jake (Jr) belongs to my church. While we don't "hang out" together, I do chat with him about once a month after services (more often if I'm in the market for a car).

They are family owned dealerships (Chevy, BMW, Subaru, Saturn, Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, a couple of standalone used lots)....run by Jake Jr and his siblings (inherited from Jake Sr). They're good people.

The BHPH lot I referenced is Alford (not the big Indian place).

bobst

Here in Fairfax County VA, we have had several teen-age girls killed driving SUVs. In most cases, they just drive off the road and hit a tree, but one was killed out on I-95 driving an Escalade.

If you want to really break your heart, look at http://www.alliegrimsley.com/

We also had a teen-age boy drive off the road in Leesburg a few weeks ago and both he and his sister were killed. I heard that he was trying to respond to a text message while negotiating a tricky turn at night. Of course, he was in an SUV too.

mac24

Unfortunately, teenagers will continue to kill themselves in any kind of vehicle they can get their hands on because (a), they have the mindset of teenagers, i.e. invulnerability combined with immortality, and (b), they lack the training and experience to be able to drive safely.

Teens often get put into SUVs by parents thinking that a vehicle of greater size, weight, and with better visibility than most cars will keep them safe..........when in fact it's the ability and skill of the driver that contributes the most to the safety of any vehicle.

user777

true, but a lower center of gravity does wonders for vehicle stability and controllability.

210delray

Which is why teens should be given midsize or larger sedans to drive with all of the latest safety features, including side airbags and stability control. Not having a powerful engine also helps.

You have to assume they will make driving mistakes, whether intentional -- showing off to their friends, or unintentional, due to inexperience. They shouldn't have to pay for such mistakes with their lives.

imidazol97

A rash of SUV type vehicles driven by teenagers started having accidents. Some were hillhopping. Some just showed off and drove fast. Some overturn in areas where there's no reason. The high center of gravity and maybe a quirk in the rotational stability because of different distribution of weight front to back (compared to sedans the person has driven) probably caused them.

british_rover

A client of mine recently put several thousand dollars into getting his older 1999 MY Range Rover fixed up and when I asked him why he said it was for his daughter.

His reasoning behind it was that how many vehicles could he buy for less then 4,000 dollars that had ABS, driver and passenger airbags, side airbags(they were standard in 1999) four wheel traction control etc.

With only 180 hp and almost 5,000 lbs to haul around it doesn't have enough power to get her in trouble and the air suspension makes it harder to tip over then regular SUVs.

In general I think putting an inexperienced driver in a big SUV is a bad idea but I had a hard time arguing with him. He made some valid points.

210delray

In this case, I'd have to agree. Doesn't the air suspension keep the Range Rover from tipping over too far in turns?

When my son went to grad school in Los Angeles a year ago last fall, he needed a car. We had to buy him one, as he had no money of his own for anything other than a clunker.

He wanted a Mini Cooper. Sorry, we said, and searched in vain for a decent used midsize sedan with side airbags. It seems all the rental fleets had dumped their Malibus, Tauruses, etc., none of which had the optional side airbags. We considered a new Cobalt (weighs 2800 lbs) but ultimately decided against it.

So we ended up giving him our 2004 Camry with side airbags and ABS. We bought a new '05 Camry to replace it.

Well, he confessed to me on the way out to Calif. he got the car (a 4-cylinder) up to 102 mph on a deserted, wide-open 2-lane road in New Mexico. My wife still doesn't know about this.

Anyway, the experiment in L.A. lasted only one semester, and he's back in school in NYC, sans car. We have both Camrys now.

british_rover

In this case, I'd have to agree. Doesn't the air suspension keep the Range Rover from tipping over too far in turns?

Yeah the air supension is active while driving. It load levels and should reduce body tip and lean in turns. His 1999 doesn't act nearly as fast the newer Range Rovers but it still does to some extant.

Side airbags are one of the most important safety features around.

The MINI is actually pretty safe, and if you get the base non-supercharged one it is not too fast, but if you get hit by H2 in one it is all over.

I counted on being aware of my suroundings and taking advantage of the iherent active safety of such a small, agile car when I drove my MINI.

One problem I found with the MINI was that since it is so small people think you are farther away then you realy are.

I was having people pull out in front of me all the time.

210delray

Yes, the Mini Cooper in and of itself is safe, but the problem was that it would have been in the thick of L.A. traffic with all sorts of much larger vehicles in the milieu.

british_rover

Yeah that situation would be bad. Eliminates the active safety if you have no where to dodge too.

Parking lot dings on the MINI can be very expensive. The headlight lenses in particular are very expensive parts.

bobst

"One problem I found with the MINI was that since it is so small people think you are farther away then you realy are."

Interesting comment, Rover.

My wife's sister was just rear-ended by a Yukon (I think) today in her Mini. The road had some snow on it. Sounds like the Yukon was following too close.

plekto

The optimal car for a teenager appears to be...

An older Buick.

Big, slow, and yet safe. No way 3400 lbs and 165HP is going to get you in trouble these days. Shoot, my first car WAS a Buick - a 1981 model with all of 115HP. Honestly, it saved me from a world of hurt on more than one occasion, since it was as fast as today's Kias.

Or better yet, get them an old Volvo 240/940. Vastly underpowered by today's standards, but built tough and cheap to repair. You can't hardly speed in one if you tried. ABS and airbags are good to have, too.(1993-1996/7, IIRC, they were standard)

graphicguy

Off topic, but I've always been a big proponent of those old Buicks, Volvos, Crown Vics, Grand Marquis as good teen/new driver cars. They've got a lot of iron around them. They run forever. And, in general, aren't fast enough to let a teen driver get into trouble.

Of course, when I tried to get my son one of those when he got his license, there were none available that were in half way decent shape to buy.

Just as good (but even tougher to find) were those Chevy Prizms (Corolla clones). Cheaper than a Corolla, but every bit as good. Again, they were practically bullet proof, with a 4 banger that wasn't going to get anyone in trouble.

Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

british_rover

My wife's sister was just rear-ended by a Yukon (I think) today in her Mini. The road had some snow on it. Sounds like the Yukon was following too close.

Probably so. In the two years I drove my MINI it was my only real concern.

michaellno

You can't hardly speed in one if you tried.

Yeah, that's what we thought when we bought a used '98 Chevy Tracker (98HP) for our son when he turned 16 4 1/2 years ago. He totalled that car 5 weeks after getting his license when he was speeding on a dirt road and rolled it.

Any car can go fast enough for an inexperienced driver to injure or kill themself or others.

Sorry to sound so harsh about it, but I've witnessed it first hand. We were lucky - no major injuries from my son's dumb behavior.

au1994

Excellent point, Michaell.

I think back to my high school days and it really did not matter as much about the vehicle as the driver.

Sometimes the worst drivers were the ones driving an old barge like a sports car.

lemko

My first car was a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe I bought for $650 in 1981. It had the 350 V-8 w/2bbl carb rated at 230 hp. Not only was it safe, but was fairly fuel-efficient and cheap and easy to maintain and repair. The car was still running in 1992 long after I gave it to my brother.

volvomax

If I had a kid, he or she would be driving a 93 240DL.

Had a customer who bought his daughter a Honda CRV instead of a used S40.
Talked to him a month later, she rolled the CRV in a ditch!

kyfdx

Those are getting harder and harder to find... I'd guess you run across few, being in your line of work..

Plus, it seems like all the post 1990 models are automatics..

volvomax

Even we don't see many anymore.
The S70 is replacing the 240 as the desirable cheap used Volvo.

british_rover

Yeah I have had a few people ask me to keep an eye out for a clean S70 for them. THe problem is since I am rarely at our Volvo dealership someone always snaps them up before I get the chance.

user777

you know, the thought of having one of those bigger cars with all the metal is interesting, but personally, i think a smaller car with better situational awareness (able to look over the hood for example), and more connected-ness or road feedback would be important.

i'm thinking a prizm or corolla or older accord.

i think one ding against say a mini, or one of those new scions or fits may be the novelty factor and the market for a stolen one.

psorter

My coworker just fixed up a 96 Explorer for his daughter, thinking it's all big and safe, so the first below freezing day we had she slid off the road and flipped the thing. I asked what tires where are it, of course he responsed all season.

It's much more important to have good tires (ice/snow tires in the winters that need it, for instance) then all the safety features combined, but everyone seems to ignore that (including everyone on this board it seems).

british_rover

Inexperienced drivers should not be alone on the road in bad weather.

Just no way around that.

user777

true, but that other poster's point shouldn't be lost on us; those safety systems comprising traction control, vehicle stability control and anti-lock brakes may fool even experienced drivers into thinking conditions are drivable when they are not, but also, if there's inappropriate tires on the vehicle, those other systems are quite limited in what they can do for you when things get nuts. you can't invent traction.

reminds me of a time i was in Denver and I saw three SUVs in the ditch but no little cars. now maybe the little ones were easier to de-ditch :surprise: or maybe no one in denver drives small cars or as the poster indicates maybe the non-SUV owners know something the others hadn't figured out yet.

erics6

Not in the car business, so I don't know much about this. I'm curious what the average profit is (for a couple year old car), between the reconditioned car and the final sales price. How low is a sales manager willing to go? I'm sure it depends on popularity, how long they've had and other factors. I'm just curious about what the margins are with used cars.

michaellno

Inexperienced drivers should not be on the road in bad weather.

While I agree with you for the most part, how do they get the experience if they never drive in it?

I ask because my daughter is in that position. She goes to college about 100 miles from us, and has a Saturn ION she drives to and from every other weekend.

Her mother and I both dread the day she has to make the trip in bad weather. We've been real lucky so far in that she was home when most of the bad weather we've had in the past month has struck us. However, I'm sure that our luck won't hold out.

Should she just stay at school? Part of us says yes, but how will she get any experience driving in inclement weather?

EDIT: user777 - I absolutely agree with you. SUV drivers here in Colorado (and many other places, I presume) feel more 'invincible' in their big, 4WD vehicles and tend to spin of the road more frequently.

As noted above, my daughter drives an ION, I've got an L300 with ABS/TC as well and my wife drives an AWD VUE, since she commutes to a town where there are as many unpaved roads as there are paved roads.

We recently replaced the tires on her VUE (still all seasons) but the difference in bad weather is simply amazing. The OEM tires were, frankly, crap.

lrguy44

3 things kill teens - under the influence, speed, not wearing seat belts.

british_rover

Hmhh you missed my post before my edit.

I meant to say they should not be on the road in bad weather conditions ALONE.

Take them out in a good nasty storm with you driving and then hand the wheel over to them in a deserted area and let them get a feel for it.

I learned to drive off-road, at my grand parents farm, before I learned to drive on road so I guess that could help too.

jmonroe

...maybe the non-SUV owners know something the others hadn't figured out yet.

Now that's another way to put it.

Didn't Cliff say "a man has to know his limitations" (insert any gender here if you feel offended) but 'rover' just said it 'his way' (like Frank)

jmonroe

jmonroe

Her mother and I both dread the day she has to make the trip in bad weather. We've been real lucky so far in that she was home when most of the bad weather we've had in the past month has struck us. However, I'm sure that our luck won't hold out.

Luck has nothing to do with it. I had two boys that went off to school that had cars and I told both of them, "If I ever see you home when it snowed or was going to snow, the car stays here and you'll take the bus back to school for the rest of the year. Then next year we can try it again".

Guess what it worked!

jmonroe

lrguy44

reminds me of a time i was in Denver and I saw three SUVs in the ditch but no little cars.

It is kinda Denver thing that SUV drivers think they are invincible. We have fun counting them off the road while traversing I-70

volvomax

No simple answer to that question.
It depends on the car mostly.
Soem cars, the recon bill is so big that you can't make a ton of money.
Other cars cost very little to recon.
If it is an average car that you can find on any lot, profit won't be as high.
If it is a desireable, low mile one of a kind, profit expectations rise.
Age of the car on the lot matters too.
Sometimes you lose money on a used car, if it has been on the lot too long.