Its the lease payment relative to the MSRP that gets me... When a lease payment is equal to a 60 month finance payment, something is seriously out of whack..
$1000 per month for a 911 C2S, no problem... $1000/mo. for a $60K Escalade? Not so good..
First of all. I would enjoy meeting you. You don't want to see what a lease payment is on a 90k Supercharged Range Rover.
My buddy just purchased a BMW M5 for 90k out the door on a 39 month lease for 10,000 miles per year. He pays $1,551.67 per month! And then fumes when my modded Mazdaspeed6 is right up with down the quarter. :surprise: On the other hand mine doesn't say, BMW.
What you will find that leases on cars that are slow sellers (or over produced like domestics) will have a better lease ratio than HOT units. Manufacturers will subsidize the lease - just like the 0% offers on finance or the "employee purchase plan" GM did last year.
Well, I know what it's like to have been a young person and easily dismissed by a salesman around the time I purchased a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham. However, I had a significant down payment saved and a nice paid-off trade before I went to the dealership. The guy acted all snooty before he even knew anything about me.
My Brougham was nowhere near $60K even accounting for inflation. What would've tipped me off is that the guy offered a $500 down payment. Shoot, I don't think that would be a sufficient down payment for a low-priced used car.
Hi, I think this is the right forum for this question, but if it's not, please accept my apologies! I had a question for the sales people/dealers online, that I was hoping they could help me with:
We're thinking about to replacing our current '00 Maxima SE, and wondered if there is value to us in spending the money to have it detailed before we bring it to the dealer for valuation? I don't mean making sure it's nice and clean (which is obvious), but going to the expense of having it absolutely sparkling inside and out. There are no stains, scratches or the like, so this would be purely cosmetic. I did it the last time I sold our car privately (since that really helped sell it), but I'd hate to spend the money if the dealer really isn't going to care. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the quick replies - I should have added some further detail:
- I can't wax it or shampoo it myself as it's gotten really cold here - I'm in Canada, and after some very weird, warm weather in December - as warm as in Dallas one day :surprise: - it's back to typical winter weather (e.g. -10 to -15 Farenheit... ), so I'd have to rely on a detailing place that has heated indoor facilities;
- Doing a bang-up detailing (full wash and wax, shampoo of interior, deep cleaning of the leater, etc) would probably set me back about USD$175 or so.
I guess my basic question is, will the dealer be factoring in the cost of detailing themselves, pretty much regardless of whether I have it done (or do it myself) or not? If that's the case, I would probably wash it myself on a warmer day, and do the interior myself. It would be clean, but not to the level of a detailer.
Maybe its me.....maybe, there's a paradigm shift happening that I'm not aware of. Maybe, folks that are buying/leasing cars that exceed the monthly nut on their house is the wave of the future. Maybe they're all living in shacks. I just don't get it.
I have to admit, that sometime/somewhere down the line, it's going to catch up to many of these people. They lose their job....or the GF/Wife gets pregnant...or a divorce is looming...or some medial issues crop up, then where are they?
We all know life throws all of us curve balls. It's happened to all of us to one degree or another. A while ago, I relayed a story about a friend and neighbor who went through a divorce. He and his wife were both "professionals" making good coin. Wife decides to trade him in for a younger/dumber model. They both lost. They lost their house. She's living in a teeny tiny apt. He's living in an extended stay motel. Kids were pulled out of private school. They had a recent vintage Lexus LS, a '99 Mustang Cobra Convertible (he bought for his teen daughter), and an '05 Corvette Convertible....all were repo'd. He's still working, but had to declare bankruptcy. Last time I saw him, he was driving a Ford Tempo and a mess, mentally. A real shame. Aside from some serious lapses in judgement, they were good people.
Now, they're financially ruined. Some of these folks I hear you guys talking about sound like they're just a hop, skip and a jump away from the same fate.
Most of the people who have the big boy lease payments also have big boy mortgages. Its not uncommon for us to lease a $50k+ XC90 to someone w/ a $3-4000/mo mortgage.
Is it worth it? I can't answer that question. But, let me ask you a question.....if you were in the market (whether you're a dealer or an individual), would you be willing to pay a little more for a nice looking, freshly waxed, sparkly interiored car?
volvomax....then, the big boy car payment and the bigboy mortgage either means they're stretched to the breaking point....or, that they're among the top 1-2% of top income people in the country. Which one is closer to the truth?
I just did the math .. the monthly payments for all three of our cars comes to just $10 more per month than my house payment.
OTOH, my sister and BIL have two leased vehicles (Pilot and 530i) that probably have a higher combined payment than what I pay for the 3 vehicles I have. And, their mortgage payment is probably $2500-3000/mo.
I know that the house they live in (in San Diego) was purchased for something like $500K and was appraised last year for north of $900K ... wonder if they have been hit by the slummping housing market? Fortunately, they haven't touched the equity.
lrguy: I'm south of Denver, and am rarely up in your neck of the woods, but perhaps one day...
It does help if you detail the car, but don't spend too much time or money on it.
Whenever we look at tradeins we will likely put more coin into a clean car rather than a dirty one.
A dirty, or messy car might have scratches underneath the dirt, and people assume that because it wasn't cared for then the maintenance might be lacking too on it.
It's much easier to push a mgr for more money on a clean trade in than a dirty one, even though we will detail it again.
So if I were you I'd detail it.
Also in terms of book value, a clean car will get you close to "x-cln" trade in number, while a filthy car will likely get a "rough" trade in value, and those can be a few thousand apart.
Mike, a car such as yours is usually a very easy sell privately. Spend that $175 on detailing and a bit on advertising and you should come out big bucks ahead.
everyone has it all wrong, if that kid got out of there with the tahoe for $500, he could have traded it for drugs. maybe he was not ever going to make a payment. :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
In fact the student lots generally have a lot more new and expensive cars than the faculty and staff lots and I teach and a university that is generally considered affordable, even cheap.
That's the answer, have the board of regents raise the tuition and pay you professors big bucks so those students have to drive used cars like they're supposed to. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You would have a hard time getting to $1,551 a month on a $90K range rover with an equivelant lease without a substantial down payment.
I haven't done a lease on a SC Range Rover this quarter, the only one we have sold was for cash, but I would guess they would lease at close to $2,000 a month with about 2,500 dollars down.
Thanks for all the quick responses - we'll get it detailed, and be glad to know it's money well spent. We may try and sell it privately, but it was a major pain last time - even with a Civic in great condition. Lots of people willing to waste lots of your time (hmmm, did I perhaps get a taste of what car sales people go through on a daily basis?)
We only sold it when a family friend expressed interest.
And to the high end folks, $1-2K a month is pocket change if they're pulling in $10-$50k a month.
For many it's a business write off, and it makes more sense to lease something that high end because of the heavy depreciation.
Besides most people who have high end cars (I'm assuming)want the newest and best thing, so it doesn't make sense to them to finance and keep a $150k car for 10 to 15 years.
In case anyone is wondering, my sister found yet another Forester on another lot (funny how there's always another car for sale around the corner). She'll probably get it this weekend.
Of course, she wanted a Subaru like mine, and didn't realize until today that I drive an Outback. So she may go wear out another three or four poor salespeople rethinking the whole deal.
btw, my first house, purchased back in 1974, cost $19,000 and it about killed me to pay a few grand more than that for my minivan 7 years ago. :shades:
Experience has taught me that detailing should be a 60/40 proposition. 40% chance dealer will up trade to meet detail cost and 60% for you, because it will make you feel better if you end up driving off without a new car or to another store.
Well, for most of our clients, the second statement is more accurate. They are in the top 1-2% of earners. We do see alot of people buying less expensive Volvo's who have $30k in credit card debt, 2 big car payments, a mortgage and debt to income issues.
Are you kidding me? Since when does the fact that a car is clean or dirty affect its book value? "Rough" book means the car has mechanical or body issues(like accident damage). That doesn't change if the car has been washed! IF your U/C manager is really paying more just because a car has been washed, he is an idiot who is burying you in trades.
If a trade is really filthy and the interior looks like a cafeteria on wheels or reeks of Basset Hound, the person appraising it is going to be immediatly turned off.
If the car looks fresh and spotless it can certainly affect the number that get's put on it.
I have taken in trades that were so filthy inside or smelled so bad I could barely park them afterwards.
I had a lady trade in a Caravan. The appraisal drive almost made me vomit. We tried everything to get the smell out and finally had to wholesale the car - good thing we discounted the trade for "habitability".
boom....I guess I can't see spending 10%-20% of my monthly income for a car. I'd rather take that 20% that some are paying towards a depreciating asset (car/truck) and put it into an investment that appreciates.
I haven't done a lease on a SC Range Rover this quarter, the only one we have sold was for cash, but I would guess they would lease at close to $2,000 a month with about 2,500 dollars down.
Why would you bother with a down payment on a leas like that? It can hardly be to reduce the monthly payment - $2000 a month or $2100, what's the difference?
The interior was covered with thick dog hair. The dog(s)had chewed the seat belts in two. They had chewed the center console completly off, chewed the steering wheel cover and the dashboard. That car SMELLED SO BAD of dog that a person could hardly walk by it even with the windows up. Besides the dog hair, the floor was a foot deep in paper cups, Mc Donalds wrappers and TRASH.
The exterior was so dirty it was impossible to tell what color the car was.
And, get this...the lady traded it for a new Pilot and her salesperson said she spent a half hour microscopically examining the new Pilot making sure it didn't have the tinest blemish or scratch!
That was last summer. I wonder what it looks/smells like now?
Well 2,000 dollars of that is first months payment and then the rest is registration and doc fee.
If Land Rover is not waiving security deposits at the time of the lease then you will have to put 4,500 dollars down as the security deposit is equal to the lease payment rounded up to the next 50 dollars.
I just sold a preowned Ford Ranger to a guy who came in and was looking for a tribute, which we didn't have. Anyway long story short he finnishes up in F&I and we do the final presentation he gets into the vehicle. He the then leans over to me and says:
"I'm so glad that you found the vehicle that I really wanted, because you are never supposed to tell the sales person what you really want."
Didn't you know - don't tell the salesman what you want, how much you want to pay or payment desired, what you think your trade is and he will magically come up with a killer deal on the car of your dreams. What a lousy Saturday - our 6th Saturday in a row that it is snowing and nobody knows we are here.
Comments
for some people, $500 or $600/mo on a lease is too much.
$1000 per month for a 911 C2S, no problem... $1000/mo. for a $60K Escalade? Not so good..
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My buddy just purchased a BMW M5 for 90k out the door on a 39 month lease for 10,000 miles per year. He pays $1,551.67 per month! And then fumes when my modded Mazdaspeed6 is right up with down the quarter. :surprise: On the other hand mine doesn't say, BMW.
My Brougham was nowhere near $60K even accounting for inflation. What would've tipped me off is that the guy offered a $500 down payment. Shoot, I don't think that would be a sufficient down payment for a low-priced used car.
We're thinking about to replacing our current '00 Maxima SE, and wondered if there is value to us in spending the money to have it detailed before we bring it to the dealer for valuation? I don't mean making sure it's nice and clean (which is obvious), but going to the expense of having it absolutely sparkling inside and out. There are no stains, scratches or the like, so this would be purely cosmetic. I did it the last time I sold our car privately (since that really helped sell it), but I'd hate to spend the money if the dealer really isn't going to care. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Mike
Have you ever had a customer refer to car payments as "notes"?
A careful wash and wax and interior vacuum will make your car look better. Might make a difference to the guy appraising it!
Just don't smear Armor-All on the dash!
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- I can't wax it or shampoo it myself as it's gotten really cold here - I'm in Canada, and after some very weird, warm weather in December - as warm as in Dallas one day :surprise: - it's back to typical winter weather (e.g. -10 to -15 Farenheit...
- Doing a bang-up detailing (full wash and wax, shampoo of interior, deep cleaning of the leater, etc) would probably set me back about USD$175 or so.
I guess my basic question is, will the dealer be factoring in the cost of detailing themselves, pretty much regardless of whether I have it done (or do it myself) or not? If that's the case, I would probably wash it myself on a warmer day, and do the interior myself. It would be clean, but not to the level of a detailer.
Thanks again!
Mike
I have to admit, that sometime/somewhere down the line, it's going to catch up to many of these people. They lose their job....or the GF/Wife gets pregnant...or a divorce is
looming...or some medial issues crop up, then where are they?
We all know life throws all of us curve balls. It's happened to all of us to one degree or another. A while ago, I relayed a story about a friend and neighbor who went through a divorce. He and his wife were both "professionals" making good coin. Wife decides to trade him in for a younger/dumber model. They both lost. They lost their house. She's living in a teeny tiny apt. He's living in an extended stay motel. Kids were pulled out of private school. They had a recent vintage Lexus LS, a '99 Mustang Cobra Convertible (he bought for his teen daughter), and an '05 Corvette Convertible....all were repo'd. He's still working, but had to declare bankruptcy. Last time I saw him, he was driving a Ford Tempo and a mess, mentally. A real shame. Aside from some serious lapses in judgement, they were good people.
Now, they're financially ruined. Some of these folks I hear you guys talking about sound like they're just a hop, skip and a jump away from the same fate.
The dealer expects to have to detail the car.
Its not uncommon for us to lease a $50k+ XC90 to someone w/ a $3-4000/mo mortgage.
Is it worth it? I can't answer that question. But, let me ask you a question.....if you were in the market (whether you're a dealer or an individual), would you be willing to pay a little more for a nice looking, freshly waxed, sparkly interiored car?
My guess is yes.
I just did the math .. the monthly payments for all three of our cars comes to just $10 more per month than my house payment.
OTOH, my sister and BIL have two leased vehicles (Pilot and 530i) that probably have a higher combined payment than what I pay for the 3 vehicles I have. And, their mortgage payment is probably $2500-3000/mo.
I know that the house they live in (in San Diego) was purchased for something like $500K and was appraised last year for north of $900K ... wonder if they have been hit by the slummping housing market? Fortunately, they haven't touched the equity.
lrguy: I'm south of Denver, and am rarely up in your neck of the woods, but perhaps one day...
Maybe he'd just seen the one that went through Barrett-Jackson the other week for $88K (including buyers premium). Should have been around $50-60K.
Whenever we look at tradeins we will likely put more coin into a clean car rather than a dirty one.
A dirty, or messy car might have scratches underneath the dirt, and people assume that because it wasn't cared for then the maintenance might be lacking too on it.
It's much easier to push a mgr for more money on a clean trade in than a dirty one, even though we will detail it again.
So if I were you I'd detail it.
Also in terms of book value, a clean car will get you close to "x-cln" trade in number, while a filthy car will likely get a "rough" trade in value, and those can be a few thousand apart.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Why is divorce so expensive?
Because it's worth it.
I hope it's been worth it to your friends.
maybe he was not ever going to make a payment. :surprise:
That's the answer, have the board of regents raise the tuition and pay you professors big bucks so those students have to drive used cars like they're supposed to. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I haven't done a lease on a SC Range Rover this quarter, the only one we have sold was for cash, but I would guess they would lease at close to $2,000 a month with about 2,500 dollars down.
We only sold it when a family friend expressed interest.
In any case, I appreciate all the help!
Thanks,
Mike
I agree but when you want to impress it's gonna cost ya. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
For many it's a business write off, and it makes more sense to lease something that high end because of the heavy depreciation.
Besides most people who have high end cars (I'm assuming)want the newest and best thing, so it doesn't make sense to them to finance and keep a $150k car for 10 to 15 years.
Would you agree british rover?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Of course, she wanted a Subaru like mine, and didn't realize until today that I drive an Outback.
btw, my first house, purchased back in 1974, cost $19,000 and it about killed me to pay a few grand more than that for my minivan 7 years ago. :shades:
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
He paid $88,234 For his M5 and received a 750.00 discount with $5000 down. For 39 months @ 10k miles a year.
We do see alot of people buying less expensive Volvo's who have $30k in credit card debt, 2 big car payments, a mortgage and debt to income issues.
Since when does the fact that a car is clean or dirty affect its book value?
"Rough" book means the car has mechanical or body issues(like accident damage). That doesn't change if the car has been washed!
IF your U/C manager is really paying more just because a car has been washed, he is an idiot who is burying you in trades.
That is hardly worth the effort isn't it?
However a spotless car does have better impression than a filthy one no matter how you look at it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
If a trade is really filthy and the interior looks like a cafeteria on wheels or reeks of Basset Hound, the person appraising it is going to be immediatly turned off.
If the car looks fresh and spotless it can certainly affect the number that get's put on it.
I have taken in trades that were so filthy inside or smelled so bad I could barely park them afterwards.
That's just me, though.
Why would you bother with a down payment on a leas like that? It can hardly be to reduce the monthly payment - $2000 a month or $2100, what's the difference?
The interior was covered with thick dog hair. The dog(s)had chewed the seat belts in two. They had chewed the center console completly off, chewed the steering wheel cover and the dashboard. That car SMELLED SO BAD of dog that a person could hardly walk by it even with the windows up. Besides the dog hair, the floor was a foot deep in paper cups, Mc Donalds wrappers and TRASH.
The exterior was so dirty it was impossible to tell what color the car was.
And, get this...the lady traded it for a new Pilot and her salesperson said she spent a half hour microscopically examining the new Pilot making sure it didn't have the tinest blemish or scratch!
That was last summer. I wonder what it looks/smells like now?
If Land Rover is not waiving security deposits at the time of the lease then you will have to put 4,500 dollars down as the security deposit is equal to the lease payment rounded up to the next 50 dollars.
"I'm so glad that you found the vehicle that I really wanted, because you are never supposed to tell the sales person what you really want."
?????? Huh?
I just don't get that philosophy
" Ah...I have a neighbor who wants it"
" Ah...I think I'm just going to keep it"
" Ah..I don't want to talk about that now"