Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe

And the birthday present? HA!.. Have you been talking to my son?

NO ...... but if you give me some contact info, I can.

Don't worry, I'll give you all the credit.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"What kind of place incentivizes employees by threatening humiliation?..." I used to work at a place that did more than humiliate the employees. They would send up to three "salespeople" into the same area to compete with each other so that often, when you would call a customer to make an appointment your "competition" was sitting in her office already. They would offer bonuses and then when it came time to pay they would say "we can't afford it" and pay less. They would also do things like make the boss's mistress your supervision. What slimeball industry did I work in? I'm sure you've guessed...HEALTH CARE!

plekto

Most peolpe would be surprized, though, at the higer-end dealerships.

Where I live(Los Angeles), the local Porsche dealer is crammed between the Jaguar and Audi dealerships. It's all glass-front commercial space - one big building or two - with the lots entirely in the back) - so it's literally 50-100 ft to the next dealership.

He says that he gets a large number of sales from people who are just looking - because it never occrurred to them to look at a Porsche. They started looking at an A4 and end up with a used Boxster(30K or so). Once upon a time, $30K for a car was insane, but the number of average peolpe who are coughing up that much for a V-6 commuter-box or a bare-bones luxury sedan is something like half of the buyers nowadays, or close to it. So he gladly takes people on test-drives - because as he said, "You can see it in their eyes - they are trying to figure how to get one after just a few minutes behind the wheel".

Now, the local Maserati dealership - they won't let you in the door or even *touch* the cars without an appointment. Totally different vibe.

user777

i bet even if you have an appointment you can't test drive a maserati...

who cares?

igor73

What are the pros and cons for the sales folk for a lot to be on a rotation vs. 1st to spot and call the customer?

Having visited several car lots from my perspective as a customer the rotation ones seem more laid back and friendly.

cobraboy1

When I sold mazdas and Chryslers in Jacksonville, NC that was the only way we did it. First come first serve was the order of the day, and I loved it. You were able to make more or less money that way than in a rotation. Competition was fierce but very comradly. We used to joke to each other about different ways to snag a customer, it was a ton of fun. The best part was that if you wanted to be lazy and spend half of the day sitting on your desk doing whatever, you could, but at the same time your paycheck would reflect that too.

I wish that they used the same system up here too. It was really laid back down there and a whole LOT of fun.

graphicguy

The Porsche store that KDFX is referring to is actually a relavitely small store. It's single story with a glass front. The building isn't luxurious or big...just a plain building. Don't know the median wage of the neighborhood, but there are certainly higher end neighborhoods within the city they could locate themselves. It's surrounded by little strip malls, but in a high traffic area. It must be successful, though. It's been there as long as I can remember.

The local Maserati dealership regularly advertises in the local paper. They don't tout their cars' "Italianess" (I can say that because I am of Italian decent....LOL), exclusivity, or performance. But, they do run the ads showing huge discounts, which I think is a little odd for a high end store. I've yet to see a Maserati on the road around here, though. That said, I live pretty far away from the dealership, too.

pletko....I'm with you, though. There was a time when I thought I'd never spend $20K for a car. Then that number became $30K...then it became $40K. I've already exceeded that threshhold. Who knows where I'll "put a stop to it". I've been sniffing around $50K cars recently.

I've only seen the King of Cars a couple of times. Most of the guys I noticed on the show are in their early 20s. That's probably a reflection on the owner, as it's my understanding he started in the car business when he was very young. It's never been clear to me how "Chop" was able to afford to buy the dealership, though. Any dealership costs multiples of millions to buy. I don't care how successful he was as a sales person coming up through the ranks, he must be operating on tons of borrowed money. Also, it's a Dodge dealership. It's got to be tough for any of the sales people to make much money as Dodges would be far down my list of cars/trucks I'd ever consider purchasing.

But, I guess given a choice of working an hourly wage for those guys, who probably have little in the way of experience or education, car sales may not be a bad paying gig.

BTW...Glengary Glen Ross is one of my favorite movies. It speaks more about desperation than it does sales.

madmanmoo

ROFL!!

I love that movie.

In my 4 years of experience in car sales, I've never had any "humiliating" incentives. However, there have been a couple of things that were noteworthy.

2 quick stories.

Saturday morning. I went to the back to use the bathroom. I'm reading the morning newspaper, minding my own business.
Suddenly, the door bangs open and a water hose snakes in and starts spewing water everywhere. I'm soaked and completely pissed off.

It took about an hour for me to cool off. :surprise:

2nd Story.

Some of my sales managers have been pretty creative with their bonus programs. One month we had something called "Bowl of Cash". We weren't told what the prize was going to be, but it was going to be a lot of fun and good money. (3 top winners with prizes going to the people who had the best gross and units for the month.)

Cut to the chase, it ended up that we were going to bowl for our bonuses. They took us out to lunch at a nice restaurant and then immediately after took us to the bowling alley. They gave us $10/point and that was our bonus. I only ended up bowling a 110. =(

Regardless, it was a lot of fun.

-Moo

madmanmoo

GG, Chop's father is a huge dealer in the area. He owns several stores and gave his son one. They run quite a few different brands and that's how he got the money.

As far as the brand, he "pimps" the majority of his rides. Remember the location of the dealership - Las Vegas. Wheels, ground effects, lowering...

From what I've read, he does have a lot of talent and has worked very hard for what he's earned. I think he would be a lot of fun to work for. He gets his guys pumped up about selling.

There is a different mentality in car sales too. The humiliation that people were talking about doesn't come across the same to the guys in the dealership. (I would guess.)

Remember, it's a bunch of guys having fun together. They make fun of each other and compete. It doesn't sound too unusual.

-Moo

qbrozen

so i watched a new episode last night. I see that he has a Rolls Royce Phantom this season .... interesting.

The frightening part of this episode was the selling of a "chopper edition" USED charger. It apparently was one of his personal cars, from the sounds of it. 24" bling rims, lowered, navigation, what have you. This shmuck came from a casino where he was "winning big" to reward himself. He was carrying casino chips! He paid ... drumroll ... $45K!!! Not only that ... $15k down and $611/mo!!! Unfortunately, they still haven't learned that when they list that info, they fail to give number of months. I sure as hell hope it wasn't 60 ... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

madmanmoo

The 611/month makes sense. $30,000 financed. 60 months. Approximately 8.25% interest rate.

Let's all do mathematics!

-Moo

graphicguy

moo....I'd be seriously PO'd if someone turned a hose on me during my......ummmm....private time. I wouldn't think it was funny and somebody would be looking at a serious posterior "whoopin" by the time I got to them.

You must have a lot more forgiveness in you than I do.

Inherited money.....that explains Chopper's success. But, as you say, I've also heard that he was very good when he was selling (doesn't neccessarily make him a good business person, though). I thought he was pretty young to have amassed the amount of money it would take to buy a car franchise. Then again, maybe I'm just jealous.

I just don't think I've got the demeanor to prowl the lot like Chop makes his people do. I like to be left alone to paw the iron in a dealership before I decide if/when to make an offer.

geo9

The local Rolls Royce and Bentley dealer as well as a
bunch more!

Check out this site for some of the "tricks" of the trade
at the Tobin dealers: http://www.choppercarsfraud.com/

madmanmoo

Ya, I was pissed. I don't stay angry too long though. They were just trying to play a joke and thankfully it was just water.

I just don't think I've got the demeanor to prowl the lot like Chop makes his people do.

I don't either. I've seen the way he makes his team leaders push the guys. I hate making people feel like they are being preyed on when they walk in the dealership.

I know the Lexus sales guys here in town are not allowed to talk to the customers until they come through the door. That means that they can walk the lot without any assistance.

-Moo

madmanmoo

What in the wide, wide world of sports is this? Why is that someone always pops up with claims of fraud and ne'er do wells when the accused is at the top of their game?

Someone wants some money!

-Moo

Edit. And someone is really crazy too.

qbrozen

i didn't realize rates had climbed so high. ouch!

i guess my days of considering $30k cars is over for the time being.

madmanmoo

Q, that's not to say that there aren't better rates out there. We have no idea what this guys credit rating was. 8.25% isn't a bad rate though. Interest has climbed.

-Moo

gogiboy

"I don't either. I've seen the way he makes his team leaders push the guys. I hate making people feel like they are being preyed on when they walk in the dealership."

I realize that Chop's outlandish pranks are designed to produce traffic in his store and make for interesting television--else why would we care. It's the same mindset at work in all of these contest shows. Few of us would watch KOC if it was simply an infomercial to move the latest product.

I'll give the guy credit for landing a show where he's the star and there are plenty of folks who want to be around celebrities no matter how minor. I wonder what number of potential buyers show up hoping they'll be included in one of the episodes. There has always been a level of crassness to the show and dealership and I'm okay with that. I do worry that making fun of obesity has become the last refuge of scoundrels. Would any of us tolerate the same type of demeaning contest directed against minorities, gays, or women?

Most interesting to me is that Chop himself is not a slight individual and obviously spends much more time behind the wheel than in a gym. Maybe he feels like his own "stoutness" allows him some latitude. I guess my attitude is to let he whose is without flaw (including character) cast the first aspersion.

Off my soap box now.

Gogiboy

volvomax

Well, people make fun of minorities, gays, women and fat people all the time.
Heck just watch whatever is on Comedy Central.

boomchek

I don't know if anyone has seen the movie Suckers. It's a comedy about a high pressure car lot. Pretty funny to me as I work in the biz and know it's not like that (at least where I work) but to the Average Joe it might be scary.

gogiboy

"Well, people make fun of minorities, gays, women and fat people all the time.
Heck just watch whatever is on Comedy Central."

True, but I'd argue that viewers tuning into Comedy Central should have an expectation that much of the comedy is edgy, in some cases offensive, and certainly not to everyone's taste.

KOC is ostensibly a look inside the world of auto sales. Admittedly, there is a theatricality about Towbin Chrysler/Dodge that puts in on one extreme of the car sales continuum. It seems to me that KOC's most humorous aspect is that it reinforces many of the negative stereotypes about car sales (shady practices at F & I, young men in ill-fitting suits bullying customers to buy product that they don't believe in themselves, etc, etc. That stereotype continues to be pervasive and creates much of the friction that fuels forums like this.

I'm sure everyone who appears on KOC signs some kind of waiver thus they get what they deserve--their 15 minutes of fame or infamy and, perhaps, a new car.

Gogiboy

madmanmoo

it reinforces many of the negative stereotypes about car sales (shady practices at F & I, young men in ill-fitting suits bullying customers to buy product that they don't believe in themselves

Funny, I didn't pick that attitude up at all from the guys in the dealership. In fact, though agressive in greeting, I think they conduct themselves very well. I don't know that I've heard anyone speaking ill of customers or seen any of the F & I process.

-Moo

explorerx4

but good practice.
i brought my explorer in for service today. it is a family owned ford only dealership.
they bought pizza for lunch for everyone working on saturday. with all the gloom and doom stories about ford, it surprised me, and reminded me why i buy/get service there.
the salesman i used to deal with retired. i remember him telling me that at some point, early 70's(?), things were slow. he said the owner lined up side jobs for the employees(maybe only sales) so they could put food on the table.

jlawrence01

KOC is ostensibly a look inside the world of auto sales. Admittedly, there is a theatricality about Towbin Chrysler/Dodge that puts in on one extreme of the car sales continuum. It seems to me that KOC's most humorous aspect is that it reinforces many of the negative stereotypes about car sales

I never watched the show as I don't have a TV unless I am in a hotel room. I have seen perhaps three episodes in the first two seasons.

I think that the principal treats his employees pretty well, although some of the contests are a bit over the top. He seems to give each of his employees opportunities to shine.

As for high pressure, yes at times. I mean, at some point, you have to have the customer make a decision to buy or not to buy.

cccompson

I've only seen part of one episode but it was revealing not so much about the dealer as customers. A woman was wanting to buy a used BMW 'vert priced at like 50K and she was a payment buyer with a trade of some sort. Although she had dad in tow it appeared that she never hit her number but bought anyway.

Yes, it happens hundred of times a day across the U.S. but it was still stunning to witness.

geo9

I wonder if they pull the same BS tactics at their
families Rolls Royce - Bentley dealer ?

gogiboy

"I've only seen part of one episode but it was revealing not so much about the dealer as customers. A woman was wanting to buy a used BMW 'vert priced at like 50K and she was a payment buyer with a trade of some sort. Although she had dad in tow it appeared that she never hit her number but bought anyway."

I remember that episode. They sold her father a used Infiniti G35 as well. I don't know that he ended up with a very good price either. The salesman obviously didn't think the woman could swing a $50K car and wanted dad to co sign for the loan. Turns out her FICO score was higher than dad's. She was financing a bundle. Both dad and daughter seemed happy and I'm sure the salesman was delighted. They struck me as atypical of the usual buyers who are upside down, buying on a whim or desperate to get out of a current vehicle no matter what.

My favorite was the guy who wanted to trade in a perfectly serviceable sedan for an older (used) Jaguar on the lot. I don't think he could swing it in the end. Talk about dodging a bullet.

Gogiboy

volvomax

King of Cars is entertainment, nothing more.
Like all "reality TV" it holds up a distorted mirror to what really goes on.

If you were to film a typical dealership you would be bored to tears.

psorter

Hey,

I was out looking at cars today on an closed dealer lot (Ford), looking at different Fusions among other cars, so I get home and I find a message on my answering machine, it's the dealer! He says he noticed I was interested in a Fusion and wanted me to contact him.

So how did this guy do it? I can only assume he was at the dealership, or he had access to cameras at the dealership and zoomed into my license plate and figured out who I was from that.

Well it was a neat trick I have to say.

imidazol97

I believe in our state only law enforcement is able ot use license plate records and then only for law enforcement. I believe there have been a few people who got in trouble for dipping into that info for personal use or sharing that info...

I'd be interested how he found you. Call him and ask?

cccompson

Hmmm...the store being closed does suggest possible security involvement and someone's improper use of state records. I'd be inclined to call the state AG's office or the local prosecutor tomorrow with an eye toward replicating this with another vehicle at another time.

corvette

It'd be easy to do that if someone got your plate # and you were an existing customer of the dealership, so they'd already have your plate # and phone number in their database. There may have been someone working inside that you didn't see. Depending on angle and distance, using a security camera to home in on someone's license plate would probably be too difficult to be worthwhile.

user777

thought the same thing. someone with access to records they shouldn't have, and if legitimate access to records, then misused. worth a little investigation and a strong warning.

kyfdx

..that they have cameras, facial recognition software.. and that you are wanted by the FBI and in their database..

That would be more interesting than the dealer having a friend at the DMV..

boomchek

We can figure out the customer's info from the VIN number if the car was serviced or sold at our location.

I'm guessing if you serviced your car there or bought it there then maybe they have a spot in the database for license plates as well and could have looked it up that way.

shasta67

I'm guessing if you serviced your car there or bought it there then maybe they have a spot in the database for license plates as well and could have looked it up that way.

If it were me they would have pretty much guaranteed that I would never set foot on their property, for any reason, ever again. I would consider it a major violation of my personal space and privacy.

boomchek

Well this is an odd situation, and I would be afraid to visit that dealer if they can track my every move (maybe they thought by phoning him that they're doing the customer a great service :confuse: )

But I think I am as anyone else here very curious to find out how they were able to figure out who the customer was.

A couple possibilities?:

He says he noticed I was interested in a Fusion and wanted me to contact him.

The Fusion browser sent an email, or card to Ford requesting more info on a Fusion, and it just so happenned that this dealer recieved the lead from Ford, and called him to follow up at around the same time the browser was looking at Fusions at that dealership.

The Fusion browser was a frequent visitor to that delaership for whatever reason and left his number at one time or another. Someone who dealt with him before or recognized him noticed he was there and gave him a call.

Or a third possibility that someone tracked him somehow.

Is there more to this story?

jmonroe

Well it was a neat trick I have to say.

I would have used the word “sneaky” not “neat”.

There have been several theories as to how the salesman could have gotten your phone number but I’m in the corner of those who said a camera was used. It would not be very difficult to have a couple of strategically placed cameras that could monitor an entire lot. This type of technology is almost common place for large retail establishments today.

A call to the state attorney general will let you know if this is legal. Not being an attorney, I would think that while it is permissible to have surveillance to monitor your premises, to call you as a result of this, borders on harassment.

Make an appointment with the salesman and once there, ask how they did it. I would want to look that guy, his sales manager and general manager in the eye and let them know why they weren’t going to get my business EVER.

jmonroe

lemko

I think the customers on King of Cars are far more interesting than the sales staff. I can't believe how financially self-destructive a lot of them are. A lot of them are already incredibly upside-down in their current ride and they want to exacerbate their problems by paying $700+ a month for something like a 2003 Durango! I won't be surprised if they'll be coming back to Chop to trade that Durango for some other blinged-out used SUV for $900+ a month!

psorter

"The Fusion browser sent an email, or card to Ford requesting more info on a Fusion"

No I never did that with any manufacturer

"The Fusion browser was a frequent visitor to that delaership for whatever reason and left his number at one time or another"

No, I only visited the dealership once or twice on Sunday when it was closed, just to browse

"Is there more to this story? "

Not that I can think of, other then the dealership was bought out, merged with, or was bought out by another dealership that did have my records.

I just assumed dealers had easy access to DMV records since they deal with them everyday....

dino001

It feels quite creepy, if you ask me. Red flags would fly all over. I would probably pick up a phone, call them, demand to speak to a manager and demand information how they came up with your phone number.

camarra

Why is it that salespeople ask for a copy of your license? My fiancee is in law enforcement, and they kind of gave him a hard time when he requested the copy back at the end of his test drive at a GMC dealer. I can understand wanting to see the hard copy of the license, of course. My fiancee wonders if the information is input into some kind of networked dealership computer to keep tabs on the customers who come in. The saleslady told him that she keeps the copies for the potential client's addresses.

british_rover

We have to have a copy of your License to sell you a car.

The DMV and the bank won't process the paperwork without it.

Getting it at the beginning of a test drive just makes it easier since we need to see your license anyway.

I don't have a problem giving it back at the end if they really want it but that normaly means you aren't buying a car.

I have never had anyone who wanted a license copy back actually buy a car. They all fade away never to return again.

user777

it's not the camera or cameras that are at issue. it's access to and use of DMV records. that's pretty verboten as far as i know. it's possible a lawyer would have legit access to DMV records, but using that access in this manner would constitute grounds for being dropped from the bar. if a friend at the DMV released the information, it would probably be grounds for job loss and possibly legal action.

the salesman/woman using ill-gotten information? i see possible legal action against him/her or the dealership unless they can prove some other method.

imidazol97

IIRC police officers have lost their job for getting information from DMV records for purposes not related to their law enforcement duties in Ohio.

Long ago records used to be available upon written request by anyone and payment to the BMV. But Bubba Clinton changed that when he because president because someone had been located by a person following her and he had found her information from her license plate on her car.

madmanmoo

Wow,

We sure have some conspiracy theorists on this board. Does anyone think it's possible that this gentleman had a "For Sale" sign on his car and someone took down a number?

I don't think there is a salesperson out there who sits on the lot on his days off and uses a security camera to track down customers who come by the lot. That seems so crazy as to be fantastic.

Guys, there are no UFO's and there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for how this guy got a phone call.

-Moo

madmanmoo

Also, while you're in the middle of your demanding.... make sure to demand the "best price" they have for the Fusion. Make sure that your they know that if your "demands" are not met, someone will pay at the dealership.

Make sure to look menacing and grim. I'm sure the entire dealership will crumble in front of you and give you all the information you "demanded".

Best of luck.

-Moo

user777

one of the most reasonable explainations IS access to DMV information. but i agree, it could be they have license information on file because the car was serviced there.

still it's weird and worth following up on.

everyone needs to be vigilant about access to personal information, specially when so much is at stake.

smittynyc

There might be more behind someone's asking to get a license copy back beyond mere flakiness -- if you've ever had your identity stolen, you tend to be a bit skittish about having a copy of your license sitting in a wastebasket somewhere.

Actually, that begs a question I always wanted to ask the sales folks -- what do your dealerships do to protect customers' identities?

One of the horrible Toyota dealerships I dealt with last December had a big locked central filing room with these huge red signs on the doors saying "No entry to customers or unauthorized staff".

My guess, though, is that isn't a proactive measure. When you have literally hundreds of "sales associates" and a high rate of turnover, I'm sure they got burned by a theft of customer data.

madmanmoo

IMO, I don't think that's reasonable. In over 4 years in the business, I have never heard of anyone doing this. I have never heard any discussion of anyone in the business ever doing this. It has never come up. Therefore, it doesn't seem reasonable to me.

This gentleman sent in an internet inquiry or had a number on his work truck.... something much, much different than a salesperson who moonlights as a private investigator and spy.



-Moo