Stories from the Sales Frontlines

boomchek

I went to their website (Luxury Institute), and to sign up and participate in their surveys you have to pay $250 annual membership.

Anyways J, I hope you're not paying them for the "privelege" of belonging to a Luxury Institute, or if you are I hope you're getting some freebies out of it.

cdnpinhead

Good job you don't deal with Mark (of Audi fame) very often, if at all.

He can definitely write (as in properly), and generates thought-provoking well-reasoned posts that occasionally run to two, because he exceeds the character limit.

An exception, I'll admit.

corvette

$250 to be able to participate in some surveys? Any other "perks" of membership?

kyfdx

I think CR sent me a dollar to take their survey, last time.

jlawrence01

went to their website (Luxury Institute), and to sign up and participate in their surveys you have to pay $250 annual membership.

You think that I would PAY to take a survey? NOT IN MY LIFETIME!

boomchek

No I didn't think so, just checking

I can't see any other rational human being doing that either. Unless they get some membership card and show off to their friends, how they belong to the "Luxury Institute"

:P

british_rover

All of the members are GM board members...

conspiracy theory

mazda6iguy

I was just wondering - when it comes time to trade in my car, will the fact that I can provide every scrap of paper concerning all trips to the dealer for service and oil changes, etc documented and can provide a folder of evidence add anything to the value? Or does that only count in a private sale. Any work that was performed on the car is documented. Or am I wasting file space keeping this info?

lrguy44

I think it depends on the car. It definitely pays dividends on a high end vehicle. In fact, most brokers will ask if records are available when bidding a car. I'm not so sure it means much on a Chevy or Ford.

andres3

When I visited the dealership they didn't try to get me to do a test drive, only saying, before you buy something else, come back and drive our car first before you buy there's and there will be no comparison. To me, it was like they thought I wasn't a serious buyer who could afford their product, because all the other dealerships would push test drives even when I told them I was just there to "look" for now. If BMW is all about the driving experience, I would think they'd be itching at the chance to get you to drive one.

boomchek

Sometimes that happens to me (as a salesman), where from the way the customer acts, and depending what he says I assume he is just browsing and don't offer a test drive.

I see your point but then again if you wanted to test drive something you should have said so, as we're not mind readers.

jmonroe

conspiracy theory

'rover'.............you're going to have to knock that off right now!!!

We have a guy in the biz that is already afraid of this kind of talk (post 7820).

Do you want to be responsible for scaring him away permanently?

jmonroe

bolivar

I think when the lot boy starts to clean up the car, everything inside except owners manuals will be tossed in the trash.

Some other sale personnel on here have also said this. Especially since dealers are now afraid of liability issues if someone used personal info on receipts left in a auto they re-sold.

So, for trade-in value, I would think the overall condition, milage, model, color, etc is all that will effect the trade-in value of a car.

boomchek

Don't leave the service records IN the car. Show them to the saleperson, and once the time comes to pick up your new vehicle, and leave your old one behind, hand those records TO the salesperson, instead of leaving them in the car.

Lot guys usually clean everything out, but the owner's manuals stay.

The only way I see a lot boy throwing everything out is if the service records are littered all over the floor or trunk of the car.

british_rover

Nah you got it backwards. Because the driving experience of a BMW is so spectacular they tend to be laid back about it. They don't need to be pushy because they are a high end dealership and because the drive is SO good.

If I have someone that comes in and is just browsing and gives me no hints that they are beyond the browsing stage I won't offer a test drive. If they give me some hints I might offer a test drive but I won't be pushy about it.

We try not to be pushy.

boomchek

I don't understand, if people want something why don't they ask for it if it hasn't been offered to them. :confuse:

british_rover

Hehe I can tell you aren't married...

People want to be served. This is even more true at the high end level. They want to have something offered up to them and they want to be asked.

There is a close by local restaurant that I go to sometimes and the food is ok and the drinks are so so but I still go there.

I could make food myself that is just as good at home and I could make much better drinks but I still go there. I go there because the service is good and I like the way I am treated. Sometimes I just want to sit down and have people bring me things.

tayl0rd

I don't understand, if people want something why don't they ask for it if it hasn't been offered to them.

Because a lot of the time all we want is just a test drive. We don't want to have an agonizing, phony conversation; we aren't fishing buddies. We don't like handing over personal information for nothing more than a test drive. We don't want to hear a sales pitch. We just want to drive. And even more than that, sometimes we just don't want a salesperson in the car with us, especially when he/she won't SHUT UP. And most of the time we feel like going through all of that isn't worth what usually amounts to nothing more than a drive around the parking lot.

Odometer reading 12.6 miles
Salesman: "I have to pull it off the lot. Okay, take this first right. Now take this right. Take that right turn coming up. Now make a right turn into the lot and you can pull up to the front."
Odometer reading 13.2 miles

Salesman: Great car, huh?
Customer: I couldn't tell ya. The drive was too short.
Salesman: Well, we don't like to put too many miles on the cars.
Salesman: You wanna talk numbers?
Customer: No. (grudgingly thanks the salesman and leaves)

lrguy44

We don't want to have an agonizing, phony conversation; we aren't fishing buddies.

It sounds to me if you don't want the knowledge and experience a salesperson can offer, you should just rent the car for a weekend. Then you could put as many miles as you wish on the car in silence.

british_rover

I agree I am not putting a guy that just walked in off the street that is a complete stranger to me in any car I don't car what its value is.

If you want to take a test drive by yourself on a dealer plate with a loaner agreemant then you are going to have to build a little bit of a relationship with the salesman.

We don't give out cars to people we are not a rental agency.

I have given cars out to people to use for the day or to take overnight but I am not doing that for some random person.

lrguy44

There was a guy in this area who would do a couple of test drives, then walk on the lot and ask to take a car for a few hours. He would then disappear with the car. The vehicle would be found a few weeks later parked near a dealer that he had just pulled the same scam on. And people who we just met, who want no part of us as salesmen, want us to put them in a car alone overnight?

mac24

The vehicle would be found a few weeks later parked near a dealer that he had just pulled the same scam on.

LOL, sounds like a road trip economy style. I wonder how far he got?

lrguy44

You might say he eventually "got up the river".

volvomax

If its a 5 yr old Honda, doesn't mean too much.
If its a 3 yr old Bimmer, means alot.

volvomax

BMW dealers are different.
They know they have a desireable product.
They know that if you are serious you will ask to drive the car.
They also get alot of strokes, so I am sure they are gunshy about offering a test drive to someone they don't get a good vibe off of.

kyfdx

Hey... I'll be in Phoenix the first week of April..

Would you mind if I took a 5-day test drive? :surprise:

tayl0rd

If we could rent them, some of us would. But you have to remember, most of the stuff that rental companies have are just econoboxes or low end cars. I don't think there's anyplace in my neck of the woods that rents Mercedes/BMW/Audi, etc. To be fair to one of the Mercedes dealerships here, they will toss you a key and send you on your way for as long as you want.

lrguy44

I know for a fact that Hertz and Enterprise here have Mercedes, Land Rover, etc. available. My test drive is about 25 minutes and includes mountain grades, bad road, highway, and curvy city. If we have built a mutual trust and I know more of who you are, I will loan out a car. But I guarantee that you will not get a $50-90k car until you have driven with a salesman and I have verified address and insurance information.

british_rover

I will second all of that.

I have a couple of different routes I use depending on the vehicle and the customer. The long one is 25 minutes long and includes everything. The shortest one is about 10-15 minutes long.

graphicguy

I think it depends on how the salesperson "sizes" up how serious you are about buying.

I know both BMW dealerships around me can't wait to get you behind the wheel of their cars for a test drive. But, they knew I was serious from the "get go" in telling them I was in the market, now. I also told them that Lexus was on my list, too. They had no qualms whatsoever about tossing me the keys to their iron and said "see for yourself if our cars drive better". They were right, and I bought.

That said, I'm a "40-something"....probably right smack in the middle of their demographic.

lokki

Do you look at what the guy drives in to the lot?

And (dare I ask it?) do you form a surface impression from his haircut, shave, clothes and wristwatch?

Any of those play into handing me a set of keys for a lone-wolf test drive? :confuse:

wlbrown9

Ah, but if you take it to the dealer for all the service then it will be in their computer anyway... Now if you take it a different brand dealer to trade, then they will probably not have access to the other brand service records. You might even be able to get a printout of all these services (from each if you used say dealer, Jiffy Lube, VIOC, Wal-Mart etc) and have the condensed version instead of all the separate records. BTW, take a look and let us know how many have faded out...those thermal receipts go pretty fast while normal print receipts may last longer.

bmw3434

Of course I look at what he drives on the lot and how things appear! Is it bad to judge ... sure. But, I have $30K to $80K vehicles sitting out on the lot so I have to be careful.
As far as pushing for a test drive, I always ask if someone would like to drive. I don't go ahead and assume they want to or make them by closing them in and all the other bs we're taught in "sales school."
Yeah the drive of the BMW sets it apart from many other cars, and that is what typically sells the car. It certainly isn't price.

imidazol97

>I'll be in Phoenix the first week of April..

With the Ohio weather this week would have been a better time to fo to Phoenix!

kyfdx

Yeah.. if the schedule was flexible... but, then again, it might be cold at the Grand Canyon!!

volvomax

Sure!
However, we have a $50,000 non refundable deposit

kyfdx

Dang!! I'll have to get back to you... I'm sure that won't be a problem... (Alamo, here I come..lol).

volvomax

Sad to say it, but yes we do.

If you pull into abimmer lot in a 10 yr old Accord, and you are in jeans and a t-shirt and are wearing a timex, it going to be hard to persuade a BMW salesman to just let you go on a drive by yourself.

A salesperson has to determine 3 things pretty quickly. Needs, wants and ability to pay.
The last being to most crucial.
A good salesperson will ask you questions to determine your ability to pay, if they get the right answers then an unaccompanied test drive is easier to arrange.

boomchek

Because a lot of the time all we want is just a test drive. We don't want to have an agonizing, phony conversation; we aren't fishing buddies

To be honest, if someone comes in and the first things out of their mouth is that they want to test drive something, I will ask questions, and lots of them. Like if they're familiar with the models, the pricing, and what other cars they're looking at. Granted some buyers here know exactly what they want, and through qualifying if they seem like they know what they want I'll let them take a car out by themselves.

But MANY times customers who come in and just ask for a test drive, are there either for a joyride, or they're not sure what car they want, especially when they want to drive three or four different models.

By asking questions I can help them rule out one or two cars and save their time and mine. (Example, Element has only 4 seats, not 5, so if it doesn't work for a customer why drive them in it; or towing capacity is less than their requirement, so why test drive the car).

Therefore I'd like to get at least a little bit of info from you as to what you're looking for and if you want to test drive something that's not a problem, I just need to know why.

snakeweasel

If we could rent them, some of us would.

There are places in almost every major city that will rent just about any car.

Got $1,500 you can rent a Lamborghini Gallardo for a day with 50 free miles ($2.75/mile after that). :shades:

snakeweasel

If you pull into abimmer lot in a 10 yr old Accord,

Just remember that guy ten years ago might have only been able to afford an Accord and now with his business taking off he is worth millions and now wants to treat himself to a luxury car after sacrificing in order to build his business. Remember that Sam Walton drove an old pickup truck.

guss

Remember that Sam Walton drove an old pickup truck.

And to my knowledge , he never traded it on a BMW.

Frugal people tend to stay frugal.

thenebean

there are two points i want to make about this...

1) everyone wants an extended test drive, but no one wants to buy the car with the test drive miles. you think a dealer is going to continuously rack up miles on his new cars because people want to drive them without any serious interest?

2) salespeople pre qualify because its their paycheck on the line. sure, they can occasionally find the one guy/gal who has a boat load of money, but dresses like an average joe. how often does that really happen? if salespeople got paid to be nice to everyone and show them cars regardless of their intent to buy, well then they'd be all for it. but their pay comes from people who buy, and the more time they spend with people who just want to lollygag and joyride, the less money they make. simple as that.

just my 2 cents...

-thene

graphicguy

Then, my theory about not wanting a test drive, no matter the sales person's insistence, is valid.

For a while there, the salespeople here insisted that it was neccessary.

Which one is it?

cobraboy1

I will third all of that.

I also have a few different routes, and it all depends on my perception of the customer. The shortest is 15 minutes the longest is 30 minutes. I will give test drives to people by themselves, but I have to have some sort of a relationship with the customer or we have to be really busy.

I once had a young couple in their early 20s come into our dealership saying they had signed up for a 48hr test drive in a Chrysler 300C! (And this is back when they had just come out!!!)

cobraboy1

I completely agree, as a salesperson you can't just send everybody who walks in the door on a test drive. If the only thing that they want to do is drive a different vehicle around for 10 or 20 miles, depending on where you go that could be as much as 30 minutes of time that is not making me any money. Because their paychecks depend on people buying vehicles, we really can't afford to let a bunch of people take up 30 minutes of our time when we could be spending that with some one who is seriously looking to make a vehicle purchase. Our showroom is big enough that if you are just killing some time or window shopping, we have enough space to put one of every type of model line on the floor so that the casual observer can look at them at their leisure. I have no problem what-so-ever answering questions to those people on the floor. That is what we are here for.

I reference to the second question. As sales we are taught to NOT prejudge anything that pulls onto the lot or the way that someone is dressing/driving. But as others have said you need to be able to answer some questions right away. And ther are ways to ask those questions in a friendly way to determine eligibility. Some of the things to look for are what they drive and how they dress, especially on lots like Bimmer, Benz, Volvo, Jaguar, and to a degree Caddilac and Licoln. Yes there are people who will drive up in a 17 yr old sebring and buy a Pacifica in cash, but like some have already said that is few and far in between

graphicguy

I once had a young couple in their early 20s come into our dealership saying they had signed up for a 48hr test drive in a Chrysler 300C! (And this is back when they had just come out!!!)

Well....if Chrysler said they could take a car out for 48 hours with no commitment, why wouldn't they take advantage of it?

Usually, when I get these types of offers in the mail (like a $50 debit card for a test drive, or an offer to test drive a car for a "no commitment" extended period of time, etc), I just take the form in and have the dealer sign it with no test drive.

But, if a manufacturer is trying to put someone's butt in their cars, and they make an offer, I don't see an issue.

user777

oh yeah, there are those that drive very fancy cars and dress to the 9s, but are burried in credit / debt. perhaps they lease or perhaps they are looking for 60mo loans.

ha.

i wager the guy or gal driving the 10yr old accord is in the better position to buy the bimmer, benz or volvo.

but they're probably shopping for another accord. :shades:

lrguy44

We have people walk in here all the time in tattered jeans and old boots who write $50-$100k checks. But instead of a 10 year old Volvo, they usually drive up in a 2-3 year old LR, BMW, MB, etc. But the first thing you learn is do not judge a book by it's cover. Also, it's a fact that women are the decision makers more often then men.

perna

1) everyone wants an extended test drive, but no one wants to buy the car with the test drive miles.

THIS is what I don't understand. Every single test drive I've ever went on (25 or so) has been on a brand new car with less than 100 miles on it.

Why doesn't the dealer set aside a car of every model to be used exclusively for test drives? It seems like this would save a ton of miles from people beating up on new cars.

Ironically, the last new car I bought had 320 miles on it. It was the "other" car in a DX from Wisconsin to Michigan.