Because the reality of the situation is that SOME of your salespeople do care about their customers.
The reality of the situation is that someone else signs their checks in a pay is determined by performance (i.e. commission) environment. That means their main interest lies elsewhere.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wouldn't at all and thats the reason I got out of commission sales. Sure the guy next door might do the sale, but I don't see the guy next door in the mirror when I shave.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
but there are ways to get people to do things that they normally wouldn't do, and even make then think it was their ideal to boot.
Care to share some of those?
No but when they are at the dealership don't you try everything you can to make a sale if you think it is possible?
Yes....that's what I'm paid to do. They are going to be purchasing a vehicle from someone, why shouldn't it be me?
No you are paid to sell cars, there is a big difference.
Why is customer service tied into our payplan then? Why is it so important for our dealership to earn the President's Award? This award is given to dealerships who have risen above the average dealer and shown excellent customer service both during and after the sale.
and in all honesty, if a person is looking to run a car into the ground (i would hope that takes longer than 5 years) what's the matter with a longer term to keep the payments down?
Few things, first of all it takes that much longer to get a positive equity on the car. 5 years is a long time and many things can happen. Secondly there is a cost benefit ratio that doesn't work out to well. Case in point extending the payments out from 60 to 72 months only decreases the payments by about 15% but increases the total interest paid by over 21% under the same interest rates. But the interest rates tend to go up extending it that long.
it cuts both ways...you want us to care about a customers financial situation, but you don't care about our wallets or our families...
I never said I don't care about your wallets or your families so please don't put words in my mouth. It is possible to do the right thing and make a salary. Or don't you believe that?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
No not here and now. But to tell you magicians do it all the time its called a force. and these things are practiced by cults all the time.
I'm paid to do both.
If you sell no cars how much will you get paid? If you are the typical sales person the answer will be nothing. If you get nothing for providing a service and not selling cars then you don't get paid for both.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
like i said, never was in a negative equity situation in my car and i've had a few boo-boos with it too. extending my payments out to 5 years made sense for me. im ok with paying a little more in interest over the term of the loan then being worried about being saddled with a higher monthly payment if i took the shorter term if something happened to my work situation, etc. so to me, i don't see a negative with extending the term...
Sanke, you are wayyyy off on this one. We don't go to people's houses soliciting for car sales. People come to us. If I tell a customer "Sorry, I can't sell you this car, I don't believe you can afford it" the only person who will lose on that is me. The customer WILL go to someone who will sell them a car. When I sit accross from someone, I assume that they have done their homework, that they know what they can afford. In other words, I treat them like adults who can make up their own minds. Some people want to lease, some want to buy. Some are payment conscious. We all have our preferred way of buying cars. None of them are always wrong and none are always right.
The left cheek - You're selling to people who apparently can't afford it! You !@%$!%'s !
Now the right cheek - You're making judgments about whether or not people look like they can afford the car! You !@%$!%'s !
So: are salesmen supposed to expect that everyone no matter how poor they look or what they drive can afford a new Hummer with 29 inch rims, or are they supposed to refuse to sell anything but Civic's with the sackcloth interiors?
Oh, wait, I understand. They're supposed to spend an hour talking and finding out the financial position of the buyer and THEN refusing to sell him or her anything but the Civic.
Silly me. That's why they're called sales counselors! Just like the High school counselor I had who told me I'd never get into college.
But to tell you magicians do it all the time its called a force. and these things are practiced by cults all the time.
Did this sound better in your head than on paper? What are you trying to say?
If you get nothing for providing a service and not selling cars then you don't get paid for both.
This just reinforces what I said before. Bottom line, we're supposed to sell cars. If we can't do that, then we shouldn't be in the business. In addition to selling cars, we need to provide excellent service. If we don't, we're canned.
Lokki, you are definitely my new favorite poster. Jipster had better get on the ball, I'm starting to only be interested in your posts now.
Snake just likes to get some action going. I don't think he believes most of the things he says. But I don't want to put words in his mouth. He doesn't like that.
like i said, never was in a negative equity situation in my car and i've had a few boo-boos with it too.
Yeah but those who stretch out payments to make them small enough to afford usually don't have much to put down so they are negative to start off with and it takes some time to dig out, especially with a 6 year or longer note.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am saying that there are ways to get people do do what you want them to do. Simple enough?
Bottom line, we're supposed to sell cars.
yes and that is and only is what you are being paid for. As long as your paycheck is performance based on selling cars you cannot have my best interests at heart.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
good for them...didn't this start with you asking me if i had ever done that for someone when i sold cars? i hadn't, but to bring this full circle - its not the salesperson's job to give financial advise to a potential customer. we sell cars. if you cant afford it, the bank won't approve you. if you buy, and it wasn't a smart fiscal decision, thats not the salesperson's fault. in the end, regardless of voodoo magic or cult stuff or anything else, a deal is done because both sides agree, including the customer. that's it.
people always want to blame someone else for their own shortcomings...its about time people take responsiblity for their OWN actions, and not blame someone else for them...
But don't you think you have some type of obligation if you know that it is a stretch for the customer to try to get them into something more affordable?
if you cant afford it, the bank won't approve you.
Lets be honest, how many times did a bank approve someone you thought would never get the loan? I saw that many times.
if you buy, and it wasn't a smart fiscal decision, thats not the salesperson's fault.
Well I am glad you can distance yourself like that and if it makes you sleep better at night good for you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
yes and that is and only is what you are being paid for.
Umm, no. That's not all that I get paid for. Our CSI scores are tied into our paycheck. That's part of how we get paid. So, for good or bad reasons, your great experience is near and dear to my heart.
If I continually have people giving poor customer service scores, then I won't have a job anymore.
as far as obligation, i would have no problem suggesting a different course of action, but im not going to refuse to sell a car, or force someone into it.
there were plenty of times that i did a deal knowing that the bank wouldn't approve, and of course, the bank didn't approve. it was rare when someone who shouldn't have been approved got approved...in my experience anyways...
and as far as how i sleep at night? i sleep fine. its not anyone elses responsiblity (except maybe my hubby or parents) to make sure i am doing what is fiscally responsible for me. i have enough to look after than to worry about whether other people are being fiscally responsible. that is not my business.
as sad as it is to think about, our economy relies on the fiscally irresponsible...
Local jewelery store clerk is not obligated to second-guess his/her customer buying $10K ring and putting it on the plastic. She/he has a clear obligation to the store to sell the ring and to customer to show them the offering and fit it to given sale parameters. That's all.
So what is the difference with a car salesman? None, except if they facilitate financing. When they get authorized to run customer's credit score and income/obligations assessment, they take possession of intimate knowledge of customer's finances and act as a loan broker. This substantially changes the set of obligation to the customer and implicitly establishes much greater trust that between sales person and the paying customer.
I think that's where the problem is, i.e. sales people not appreciating the implicit trust that is assumed when they act as loan brokers, thus much higher obligation that can be contradictory to their sales obligation. Moreover, it in fact trumps the sales obligation, which is not realized by most of them, hence many conflicts.
nope. there really isn't more to the story, unless being educated and asking for a vehicle prior to being bumped with extras ticked them off. or maybe it was suggesting that their lot had 77 vehicles of the type i was interested in, when he claimed they only had the four which were out at the road.
dealers and poor salespeople can and do let stupidity and ego get in the way of doing a deal.
trade value drops with every mile added to the car (what is significant to you may not be to me). its hard to finance anything with over 90k miles, and getting pretty hard with anything over 80k miles so yes, the trade price does drop as the car is a little harder to sell if it can't be financed.
edmunds is showing a civic ex dropping in trade value by $500 (all other things being equal) when the car goes from 70k miles to 80k miles. edmunds then shows a $200 deduct for every 10k miles after that.
i never did a deal longer than 66 months. and in all honesty, if a person is looking to run a car into the ground (i would hope that takes longer than 5 years) what's the matter with a longer term to keep the payments down?
you know the answer to that question.
if they are looking at a vehicle they can't do in 4, it's too much for them. you're just enabling and re-inforcing poor behavior.
what service are you REALLY providing your client?
Just because you think that 4 years is the best loan time, why should that be the same for everyone else? I don't understand why it is such an issue with you folks.
Purpose of this is twofold.. First to express my dismay with dealer tactics, second to get a little advice from the resident salesreps in here since similiar stories seem to get lost quickly in other forums.
Looking at a CPO 2004 BMW 325i right now. 30k miles, also looking at the BMW maintanence extension to 100k. Car has been on the lot since late November, original sticker was $24989. Test drove it and took some time to test drive some other cars (and a bunch of personal stuff came up). Came back in late January, sticker price now $23989. Sales rep told me that because car had been on lot for awhile, would probably be going to auction soon. With this info, I offered $21k for the car. Of course, dealer acted like I trying to steal from the dealership. Quoted TMV (joke), said my offer was below wholesale (which it's not unless I'm getting bad info) and they'd get more from auction (doubtful). Said they'd come down $300, but anything more and they'd be losing money on the car. Also said they'd sell the maintanence extension for $800 (normally $1300...but through research I've found this is pretty much the going rate with negotiation). That negotiation was over the last few days of January. Couple days pass and I have the sales rep calling me before she goes on vacation early February. Of course some couple she's working with is at the dealership and has signed a purchase order for the car, but there's new 4.9% financing and this couple hasn't done any credit apps yet, so car might still be available if I hurry on in. Uh-huh, dealerships always fill out purchase orders before figuring out how payment will be made :lemon: . Of course, a week later, car is still on the lot, now at their "rock bottom" price of $300 less, $23689.
Now, all this talk about acting like adults. I expect to be treated like an adult. I understand that everybody wants to make the most money they can. But please, don't give me this act where I'm robbing the dealer blind. My offer wasn't absurd. Was it a little low? Sure, but the car has been on the lot for 3 months too. And then to pull the "somebody else is looking, but if you have a chance if you come down RIGHT NOW" garbage? Please.
I will say though, this waiting is killing me. I really want the car, but I would like it at a price that's more of a compromise between my offer and their asking price, not $300 less. So, salespeople.... am I being absurd? Is there anything I can say or do to speed this process along, other than giving in to their price? I feel like if I concede and make an offer now (2 weeks later) that it will give them the confidence that I will eventually pay their price. My rock bottom price is obviously higher than my offer. I want to avoid being the jerk customer, but I also don't want to be the rube who gives them exactly what they want.
I have an Acura dealer story too, but I'll save that for later
They might have more in the vehicle than they should. If it is sitting on their lot forever, I can completely understand what you're saying. You would think that they would have more room.
I wouldn't let it ruffle your feathers. Just keep touching bases with the saleslady. Keep on making offers. If they truly can't sell the vehicle lower, than they won't. Actually, just offer them exactly what you want to pay. If they can't do it, then move on and find another one. There are a lot of vehicles out there!
Also, find a salesperson you like. They can provide a service of being nice and treating you like an adult!
And, a couple of you have already put this out, manmanmoo and lokki, I think.
The problem isn't the salespeople, they are doing what their job description says - sell cars. (And we aren't discussing 'techniques' of sales, which is another discussion.)
Part of the problem is the buyers, because they are stupid. At least, stupid about buying cars. And other stuff.
The problem lands on the institution approving and providing the loan. This is where people should be stopped making 'questionable' purchases. And don't give me the 'If they don't do it, the bank down the road will do it.', because the problem then lands on that bank down the road.
And the problem then becomes MY problem. Because, when I want a loan from that bank or give the bank my cash for a Certificate of Deposit, it costs me another +1% for the loan or -1% less on the CD, to cover the bad loans given to the 'questionable' people.
And the bank operating like this has brought the US to the lowest rate of savings for the nation since the Great Depression.
And the banks are the force behind giving that person the credit card with the $10k limit which they use in Best Buy for the $4,500 plasma screen TV and the $150 Monster HDMI cables (must have these to obtain the very 'best' picture - ha!) and the $2,000 Home Theater Entertainment System (another $300 of Monster cables here) and the $1,500 stand to sit all this on. Only comes to about $200 a month minium payment on the card, which means it will take 12 years to pay off, and cost $32,000.... Made up number. No idea what this would really be.... But you get the idea.
I think there is a lot of assumptions at play in this situation, and that's why they haven't sold you the car yet:
they'd come down $300, but anything more and they'd be losing money on
Nobody except the dealer knows what they paid for the car. Plus if they certified it, detailed it, tuned it up, and maybe did some body work on it then the car stands them more than TMV, or whatever wholesale number you may be quoting them.
It's hard to tell what they will get at the auction, but they probably think they can get more than your offer, and that's why they are holding out.
Uh-huh, dealerships always fill out purchase orders before figuring out how payment will be made
It happens all the time where people put deposits on cars (new and used) and sit on them for a few weeks while they arrange their own financing and so on. Many times when we have sitautions like this we will do a back up deal, so if the first buyer cancels or backs out the next buyer will get the car. If the first buyer goes ahead, then the back up deal is canceled and deposit refunded.
So if your offer is not good enough then you will either have to pay more or look for another car. And just because the car has been sitting there 3 months they moight rather wait for the right buyer at the right price rather than losing $1k-$2k on it.
good post about not counting on the watch. i don't wear one. my computer has a clock, so does my car, and my wireless phone, too. i was worried i'd be relegated to the 'bhph' lots. :P
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Can you sales pros help me understand what happened to me when I went to pick up my Honda CRV yesterday? I came home empty handed and mystified.
4 weeks ago I went into a dealership and test drove a car. We wrote a sales agreement for a 2007 CRV EX-L 2WD and left a hefty deposit. They gave us a low but decent amount on our trade-in. They told us two weeks, no problem. We know supply is tight, tight, tight but they said not to worry. As we were leaving, the sales manager came in and asked us if we would consider the same car with 4WD? We verbally batted numbers back and forth, agreed on a price range, colors, etc. 4 weeks later, we are called and told to come pick up our car. We show up a few days later with a cashier's check and our trade-in clean. Another sales manager goes out to look at the trade, comes in and before we're in our seats tells us the price has gone up another 750 and that our trade is is now worth half of what was offered a month ago. The original sales manager treats my husband like he's some skanky ghost he's never seen before. He said they were never going to be able to get the 2WD and he only had 4WDs. He would not negotiate. He told us his costs had gone up in the mean time and he had to pass them on to us. We asked about the sales agreement and he simply wouldn't speak. Both of them looked uncomfortable and almost sick. We were stunned, got up :confuse: and left.
What were they thinking? Is this a common tactic? What should we have done? Why bother with a sales agreement if it's one-sided? Why chase off a customer ready to pay in cash? We did a fair deal, they made some money and we felt good so why would they drop us?
The thought of going to another dealer and going through all this nonsense again is making me sick to my stomach. Any advice is appreciated. :confuse:
Well just go to another Honda dealer (or Toyota/Subaru dealer if that's the only Honda dealer around). Select a CRV or Rav4/Forester on the lot and negotiate. It's much easier.
Wow, that shouldn't have happenned unless they made a mistake in the first place on your trade, and didn't want to say or do anything until you came in to pick up your car.
I mean the only reason that I can see us doing that is if the trade in suffered a huge accident from the time of appraisal to the time of delivery.
As per the cost of the CRV, I can't see it jumping that much. Our prices did go up on some cars as of Jan 1st but not that much.
Anyways I think if any figures were going to change they should have called you before hand and informed you of that.
Is there more to this story than what's written there? And I hope you got your deposit back.
I guess I can consider myself lucky after that horror story you experienced.
I stopped at my local Honda dealer to look at a CRV for my wife right before Christmas. I asked in here if I was "profiled" because the salesman didn't seem interested in me. I was wearing ratty jeans and a sweatshirt because I was on my way to work on a new building we are building at a baseball field, but I was driving my '05 BMW and figured the sales dude knew I could certainly afford it.
Someone here in this forum said I was ignored because I wasn't a serious buyer. How they figured that out is anyone's guess.
A few weeks later an '07 Forester was sitting in my driveway and the wife couldn't be happier.
One thing I have to ask is was there a significant change in your trade in? Did you take a cross country trip in it? Did you have an accident or did a mechanical problem suddenly turn up? If so I can see that making a difference in your trade in.
As for the increase in costs don't buy it. The dealership made a deal and should take the hit on that.
If the laws in your state state that a contract is created with a signed sales agreement (and I do think it does) then you can take them to court and enforce the contract. You could threaten them with that and see what happens.
But in reality I would just not go through the trouble and look someplace else.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
drolly....as others have said, the dealership's motivation to sell any vehicle is based on the profit expectations they have on the unit. You don't know how much the dealer has in the car, nor what profit level they need to hit. If they're willing to take it to auction, my guess is they believe they can get more money from it than what you're offering.
If you want the car as badly as you say, I suppose you can play the waiting game. But be prepared to lose a deal. The car biz is pretty much predicated on "buy it now". Once you walk out of the dealership with no deal the first go round, they know the likelihood of you buying from them drops dramatically. Either look for another car, somewhere else....or continue to insist on sticking to your number (which obviously didn't get the deal done).
I relayed an incidence a while ago about a new '05 Mustang GT I had bought a couple of years ago. Nothing wrong with the car, but because of a bunch of different curcumstances, it ended up at the original selling dealership as a trade. It looks no different than the day I drove it off the lot, new. Probably got less than 10K miles on it. It's been sitting on their used lot for many, many months now. The dealer clearly put too much money into it when they bought it back as a trade.
I've talked to the GM of the dealership several times. It's snowing here (and has been for a few weeks). That car isn't going to move anywhere. GM says he's willing to wait until Spring, when the market is better for the car....rather than take a loss on it, now.
Bottom line, you want that BMW? The dealer doesn't like your offer, as shown by their rejection of it. Either up your offer, or move on. In your case, waiting isn't benefitting the dealer, nor you.
thene.....you're absolutely right. Everybody wants to blame someone else. Personally, I think it's ludicrous to finance a car anything past 48 months. I might be able to see a 60 month note if the car is of the high buck variety....or, if the manufacturer is offering some crazy finance deal.
I don't blame the salespeople or the dealership for allowing 72 month financing. Matter of fact, I'd be a bit insulted if a salesperson said to me..."Mr GG, I don't think you can afford the car you're looking at. Please look at something else". Go ahead. Blame the dealership because you're still upside down after 4 years of a 6 year loan. The customer signed the papers agreeing to it, though.
That's true of a lot of things, though. My son's 21st b-day is coming up. HE wants to put about $700 worth of amps and "thumper" woofers in his car as his b-day present. He drives a Hyundai. I told him the stereo would be worth more than the car is. I refuse to be a party to that. Matter of fact, I hate the nasty "thumper" stereos in any car. Told him, financially, that stereo makes no sense....and it won't be a present he gets from me. But, I can see him going to Circuit City and asking them to "hook him up" with a thumper. I'm certain they'd be more than happy to install one for him.
I think 60 month financing is OK for today's vehicles, as they last longer. There are conditions, though: the owner needs to stay with the car for that period or beyond the amortization, some decent down (10-20%) would not hurt and low interest is a must.
Probability of a major repair out of warranty is pretty low, plus one could buy an extended one just as a piece of mind - of ocurse subject to one's priorities and risk management habits.
The problem? Most people do not satisfy these conditions: they trade after couple of years, they don't maintain their cars, thus run into repairs too early, they put nothing down and pay high interest.
thanks gg! thing is, if i go and buy a car that i cannot afford, and down the road i finally realize it, im not gonna blame the salesperson for selling it to me. i was the idiot who walked in and bought it in the first place. simple as that. if you cant take responsiblity for your own actions, well then...i don't know what to tell you!
either way, going back to the length of term - i personally think if you plan on keeping the car longer than the term length, then its fine. if you don't put much down, definitely get gap insurance. if you like to change cars like you change underwear, well thats a different story...
No, I seriously doubt it. I'm sure there is a stipulation on their trade evaluation sheet. Their offer on the trade is probably only good for a week or two. I doubt if they even have a signed buyer's order with the numbers.
Just move on and don't do business with the dealership. I'm sure there is another Honda dealership around and you won't have to have a bad feeling about the transaction.
If you have waited this long, then you can wait a little more. We're presold on EX-L CR-V's through March.
There is indeed a note on the agreement that says "subject to reappraisal" and there are numbers filled in for everything, including the trade-in allowance. Their objection was that we had put 1000 miles on the van in four weeks and that reduced the trade from 1500 to 750. I didn't realize we were expected to park our car while we waited a month or more for them to get our car. Because it was a locate,there's no stock number or vin number on the agreement but everything else is filled in
I am inclined to agree with you, madmanmoo, to make sure I get my deposit credited back to my card (they said they would but why should I believe them?) and move on to another dealer or another make/model. My van drives great and at this point I can wait another year. I just thought the whole thing seemed weird and it really turned me off on Hondas. If they are this squirrely in sales what nightmares were waiting for me from the service manager? It was good lesson that a sales agreement and a deposit are meaningless to a dealer and they can squirm out of it when it is profitable. Thanks everybody for your insight.
If you really want the car just keep working. Sounds like this bimmer salesgirl isn't all that good though. Dealers hate losing money on used cars, so I am sure that the u/c manager believes someone will come along and pay him what he wants. If that doesn't happen and the car gets older, esp this month with a book change coming March 1st, you should be able to get it for less.
The credit card deposit won't be an issue for you. If they don't credit it back, then just call your credit card company and explain the issue. They should take care of it from there.
I'm a little surprise at the drop in trade numbers. How many total miles are on there?
Don't let this turn you off on Hondas. It has nothing to do with the product. It has everything to do with the dealership you're going with.
I had a horrible experience with a particular franchise who cleaned my carpets. I won't use those particular people again, but I'll probably use the product. Don't confuse the two.
It was good lesson that a sales agreement and a deposit are meaningless to a dealer and they can squirm out of it when it is profitable.
Again, I wouldn't go too far with that. Another option you had is to pull the trade and then sell it on your own. Pay the original price on the new vehicle but don't worry about what they will give you on your vehicle. Go to Carmax even, see what they will give you.
There are all kinds of options for you to make this a positive experience. There are good and bad everywhere. Find the good folks! You've found a great product!
Comments
The reality of the situation is that someone else signs their checks in a pay is determined by performance (i.e. commission) environment. That means their main interest lies elsewhere.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wouldn't at all and thats the reason I got out of commission sales. Sure the guy next door might do the sale, but I don't see the guy next door in the mirror when I shave.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Care to share some of those?
No but when they are at the dealership don't you try everything you can to make a sale if you think it is possible?
Yes....that's what I'm paid to do. They are going to be purchasing a vehicle from someone, why shouldn't it be me?
No you are paid to sell cars, there is a big difference.
Why is customer service tied into our payplan then? Why is it so important for our dealership to earn the President's Award? This award is given to dealerships who have risen above the average dealer and shown excellent customer service both during and after the sale.
I'm paid to do both.
-Moo
Few things, first of all it takes that much longer to get a positive equity on the car. 5 years is a long time and many things can happen. Secondly there is a cost benefit ratio that doesn't work out to well. Case in point extending the payments out from 60 to 72 months only decreases the payments by about 15% but increases the total interest paid by over 21% under the same interest rates. But the interest rates tend to go up extending it that long.
it cuts both ways...you want us to care about a customers financial situation, but you don't care about our wallets or our families...
I never said I don't care about your wallets or your families so please don't put words in my mouth. It is possible to do the right thing and make a salary. Or don't you believe that?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
No not here and now. But to tell you magicians do it all the time its called a force. and these things are practiced by cults all the time.
I'm paid to do both.
If you sell no cars how much will you get paid? If you are the typical sales person the answer will be nothing. If you get nothing for providing a service and not selling cars then you don't get paid for both.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We don't go to people's houses soliciting for car sales.
People come to us.
If I tell a customer "Sorry, I can't sell you this car, I don't believe you can afford it" the only person who will lose on that is me.
The customer WILL go to someone who will sell them a car.
When I sit accross from someone, I assume that they have done their homework, that they know what they can afford.
In other words, I treat them like adults who can make up their own minds.
Some people want to lease, some want to buy. Some are payment conscious.
We all have our preferred way of buying cars. None of them are always wrong and none are always right.
Now the right cheek - You're making judgments about whether or not people look like they can afford the car! You !@%$!%'s !
So: are salesmen supposed to expect that everyone no matter how poor they look or what they drive can afford a new Hummer with 29 inch rims, or are they supposed to refuse to sell anything but Civic's with the sackcloth interiors?
Oh, wait, I understand. They're supposed to spend an hour talking and finding out the financial position of the buyer and THEN refusing to sell him or her anything but the Civic.
Silly me. That's why they're called sales counselors! Just like the High school counselor I had who told me I'd never get into college.
Did this sound better in your head than on paper? What are you trying to say?
If you get nothing for providing a service and not selling cars then you don't get paid for both.
This just reinforces what I said before. Bottom line, we're supposed to sell cars. If we can't do that, then we shouldn't be in the business. In addition to selling cars, we need to provide excellent service. If we don't, we're canned.
-Moo
Snake just likes to get some action going. I don't think he believes most of the things he says. But I don't want to put words in his mouth. He doesn't like that.
-Moo
Yeah but those who stretch out payments to make them small enough to afford usually don't have much to put down so they are negative to start off with and it takes some time to dig out, especially with a 6 year or longer note.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am saying that there are ways to get people do do what you want them to do. Simple enough?
Bottom line, we're supposed to sell cars.
yes and that is and only is what you are being paid for. As long as your paycheck is performance based on selling cars you cannot have my best interests at heart.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Actually from my experience in sales I know what I say is true.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
people always want to blame someone else for their own shortcomings...its about time people take responsiblity for their OWN actions, and not blame someone else for them...
anyways, my two cents...
as always,
thene
But don't you think you have some type of obligation if you know that it is a stretch for the customer to try to get them into something more affordable?
if you cant afford it, the bank won't approve you.
Lets be honest, how many times did a bank approve someone you thought would never get the loan? I saw that many times.
if you buy, and it wasn't a smart fiscal decision, thats not the salesperson's fault.
Well I am glad you can distance yourself like that and if it makes you sleep better at night good for you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Umm, no. That's not all that I get paid for. Our CSI scores are tied into our paycheck. That's part of how we get paid. So, for good or bad reasons, your great experience is near and dear to my heart.
If I continually have people giving poor customer service scores, then I won't have a job anymore.
-Moo
there were plenty of times that i did a deal knowing that the bank wouldn't approve, and of course, the bank didn't approve. it was rare when someone who shouldn't have been approved got approved...in my experience anyways...
and as far as how i sleep at night? i sleep fine. its not anyone elses responsiblity (except maybe my hubby or parents) to make sure i am doing what is fiscally responsible for me. i have enough to look after than to worry about whether other people are being fiscally responsible. that is not my business.
as sad as it is to think about, our economy relies on the fiscally irresponsible...
-thene
So what is the difference with a car salesman? None, except if they facilitate financing. When they get authorized to run customer's credit score and income/obligations assessment, they take possession of intimate knowledge of customer's finances and act as a loan broker. This substantially changes the set of obligation to the customer and implicitly establishes much greater trust that between sales person and the paying customer.
I think that's where the problem is, i.e. sales people not appreciating the implicit trust that is assumed when they act as loan brokers, thus much higher obligation that can be contradictory to their sales obligation. Moreover, it in fact trumps the sales obligation, which is not realized by most of them, hence many conflicts.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
LOW monthly payments on new 07 Flashmobiles...........
Only to squint at the buried fine print and noting
the 66 month payment plan............
My take is - yes and YES but the effect is not as bad with a Civic.
dealers and poor salespeople can and do let stupidity and ego get in the way of doing a deal.
edmunds is showing a civic ex dropping in trade value by $500 (all other things being equal) when the car goes from 70k miles to 80k miles. edmunds then shows a $200 deduct for every 10k miles after that.
you know the answer to that question.
if they are looking at a vehicle they can't do in 4, it's too much for them. you're just enabling and re-inforcing poor behavior.
what service are you REALLY providing your client?
-Moo
Looking at a CPO 2004 BMW 325i right now. 30k miles, also looking at the BMW maintanence extension to 100k. Car has been on the lot since late November, original sticker was $24989. Test drove it and took some time to test drive some other cars (and a bunch of personal stuff came up). Came back in late January, sticker price now $23989. Sales rep told me that because car had been on lot for awhile, would probably be going to auction soon. With this info, I offered $21k for the car. Of course, dealer acted like I trying to steal from the dealership. Quoted TMV (joke), said my offer was below wholesale (which it's not unless I'm getting bad info) and they'd get more from auction (doubtful). Said they'd come down $300, but anything more and they'd be losing money on the car. Also said they'd sell the maintanence extension for $800 (normally $1300...but through research I've found this is pretty much the going rate with negotiation). That negotiation was over the last few days of January. Couple days pass and I have the sales rep calling me before she goes on vacation early February. Of course some couple she's working with is at the dealership and has signed a purchase order for the car, but there's new 4.9% financing and this couple hasn't done any credit apps yet, so car might still be available if I hurry on in. Uh-huh, dealerships always fill out purchase orders before figuring out how payment will be made :lemon: . Of course, a week later, car is still on the lot, now at their "rock bottom" price of $300 less, $23689.
Now, all this talk about acting like adults. I expect to be treated like an adult. I understand that everybody wants to make the most money they can. But please, don't give me this act where I'm robbing the dealer blind. My offer wasn't absurd. Was it a little low? Sure, but the car has been on the lot for 3 months too. And then to pull the "somebody else is looking, but if you have a chance if you come down RIGHT NOW" garbage? Please.
I will say though, this waiting is killing me. I really want the car, but I would like it at a price that's more of a compromise between my offer and their asking price, not $300 less. So, salespeople.... am I being absurd? Is there anything I can say or do to speed this process along, other than giving in to their price? I feel like if I concede and make an offer now (2 weeks later) that it will give them the confidence that I will eventually pay their price. My rock bottom price is obviously higher than my offer. I want to avoid being the jerk customer, but I also don't want to be the rube who gives them exactly what they want.
I have an Acura dealer story too, but I'll save that for later
I wouldn't let it ruffle your feathers. Just keep touching bases with the saleslady. Keep on making offers. If they truly can't sell the vehicle lower, than they won't. Actually, just offer them exactly what you want to pay. If they can't do it, then move on and find another one. There are a lot of vehicles out there!
Also, find a salesperson you like. They can provide a service of being nice and treating you like an adult!
-Moo
And, a couple of you have already put this out, manmanmoo and lokki, I think.
The problem isn't the salespeople, they are doing what their job description says - sell cars. (And we aren't discussing 'techniques' of sales, which is another discussion.)
Part of the problem is the buyers, because they are stupid. At least, stupid about buying cars. And other stuff.
The problem lands on the institution approving and providing the loan. This is where people should be stopped making 'questionable' purchases. And don't give me the 'If they don't do it, the bank down the road will do it.', because the problem then lands on that bank down the road.
And the problem then becomes MY problem. Because, when I want a loan from that bank or give the bank my cash for a Certificate of Deposit, it costs me another +1% for the loan or -1% less on the CD, to cover the bad loans given to the 'questionable' people.
And the bank operating like this has brought the US to the lowest rate of savings for the nation since the Great Depression.
And the banks are the force behind giving that person the credit card with the $10k limit which they use in Best Buy for the $4,500 plasma screen TV and the $150 Monster HDMI cables (must have these to obtain the very 'best' picture - ha!) and the $2,000 Home Theater Entertainment System (another $300 of Monster cables here) and the $1,500 stand to sit all this on. Only comes to about $200 a month minium payment on the card, which means it will take 12 years to pay off, and cost $32,000.... Made up number. No idea what this would really be.... But you get the idea.
they are charging you what 2K or so for being certified? ha.
maybe i'd toss one final value at them. maybe not.
they'd come down $300, but anything more and they'd be losing money on
Nobody except the dealer knows what they paid for the car. Plus if they certified it, detailed it, tuned it up, and maybe did some body work on it then the car stands them more than TMV, or whatever wholesale number you may be quoting them.
It's hard to tell what they will get at the auction, but they probably think they can get more than your offer, and that's why they are holding out.
Uh-huh, dealerships always fill out purchase orders before figuring out how payment will be made
It happens all the time where people put deposits on cars (new and used) and sit on them for a few weeks while they arrange their own financing and so on. Many times when we have sitautions like this we will do a back up deal, so if the first buyer cancels or backs out the next buyer will get the car. If the first buyer goes ahead, then the back up deal is canceled and deposit refunded.
So if your offer is not good enough then you will either have to pay more or look for another car. And just because the car has been sitting there 3 months they moight rather wait for the right buyer at the right price rather than losing $1k-$2k on it.
Hope this helps.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
i was worried i'd be relegated to the 'bhph' lots. :P
4 weeks ago I went into a dealership and test drove a car. We wrote a sales agreement for a 2007 CRV EX-L 2WD and left a hefty deposit. They gave us a low but decent amount on our trade-in. They told us two weeks, no problem. We know supply is tight, tight, tight but they said not to worry. As we were leaving, the sales manager came in and asked us if we would consider the same car with 4WD? We verbally batted numbers back and forth, agreed on a price range, colors, etc. 4 weeks later, we are called and told to come pick up our car. We show up a few days later with a cashier's check and our trade-in clean. Another sales manager goes out to look at the trade, comes in and before we're in our seats tells us the price has gone up another 750 and that our trade is is now worth half of what was offered a month ago. The original sales manager treats my husband like he's some skanky ghost he's never seen before. He said they were never going to be able to get the 2WD and he only had 4WDs. He would not negotiate. He told us his costs had gone up in the mean time and he had to pass them on to us. We asked about the sales agreement and he simply wouldn't speak. Both of them looked uncomfortable and almost sick. We were stunned, got up :confuse: and left.
What were they thinking? Is this a common tactic? What should we have done? Why bother with a sales agreement if it's one-sided? Why chase off a customer ready to pay in cash? We did a fair deal, they made some money and we felt good so why would they drop us?
The thought of going to another dealer and going through all this nonsense again is making me sick to my stomach. Any advice is appreciated. :confuse:
Got 2 HDMI cables from ebay, less than $17, including shipping.
I mean the only reason that I can see us doing that is if the trade in suffered a huge accident from the time of appraisal to the time of delivery.
As per the cost of the CRV, I can't see it jumping that much. Our prices did go up on some cars as of Jan 1st but not that much.
Anyways I think if any figures were going to change they should have called you before hand and informed you of that.
Is there more to this story than what's written there? And I hope you got your deposit back.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I stopped at my local Honda dealer to look at a CRV for my wife right before Christmas. I asked in here if I was "profiled" because the salesman didn't seem interested in me. I was wearing ratty jeans and a sweatshirt because I was on my way to work on a new building we are building at a baseball field, but I was driving my '05 BMW and figured the sales dude knew I could certainly afford it.
Someone here in this forum said I was ignored because I wasn't a serious buyer. How they figured that out is anyone's guess.
A few weeks later an '07 Forester was sitting in my driveway and the wife couldn't be happier.
Go somewhere else and don't drive yourself crazy.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
As for the increase in costs don't buy it. The dealership made a deal and should take the hit on that.
If the laws in your state state that a contract is created with a signed sales agreement (and I do think it does) then you can take them to court and enforce the contract. You could threaten them with that and see what happens.
But in reality I would just not go through the trouble and look someplace else.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you want the car as badly as you say, I suppose you can play the waiting game. But be prepared to lose a deal. The car biz is pretty much predicated on "buy it now". Once you walk out of the dealership with no deal the first go round, they know the likelihood of you buying from them drops dramatically. Either look for another car, somewhere else....or continue to insist on sticking to your number (which obviously didn't get the deal done).
I relayed an incidence a while ago about a new '05 Mustang GT I had bought a couple of years ago. Nothing wrong with the car, but because of a bunch of different curcumstances, it ended up at the original selling dealership as a trade. It looks no different than the day I drove it off the lot, new. Probably got less than 10K miles on it. It's been sitting on their used lot for many, many months now. The dealer clearly put too much money into it when they bought it back as a trade.
I've talked to the GM of the dealership several times. It's snowing here (and has been for a few weeks). That car isn't going to move anywhere. GM says he's willing to wait until Spring, when the market is better for the car....rather than take a loss on it, now.
Bottom line, you want that BMW? The dealer doesn't like your offer, as shown by their rejection of it. Either up your offer, or move on. In your case, waiting isn't benefitting the dealer, nor you.
I don't blame the salespeople or the dealership for allowing 72 month financing. Matter of fact, I'd be a bit insulted if a salesperson said to me..."Mr GG, I don't think you can afford the car you're looking at. Please look at something else". Go ahead. Blame the dealership because you're still upside down after 4 years of a 6 year loan. The customer signed the papers agreeing to it, though.
That's true of a lot of things, though. My son's 21st b-day is coming up. HE wants to put about $700 worth of amps and "thumper" woofers in his car as his b-day present. He drives a Hyundai. I told him the stereo would be worth more than the car is. I refuse to be a party to that. Matter of fact, I hate the nasty "thumper" stereos in any car. Told him, financially, that stereo makes no sense....and it won't be a present he gets from me. But, I can see him going to Circuit City and asking them to "hook him up" with a thumper. I'm certain they'd be more than happy to install one for him.
Probability of a major repair out of warranty is pretty low, plus one could buy an extended one just as a piece of mind - of ocurse subject to one's priorities and risk management habits.
The problem? Most people do not satisfy these conditions: they trade after couple of years, they don't maintain their cars, thus run into repairs too early, they put nothing down and pay high interest.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
either way, going back to the length of term - i personally think if you plan on keeping the car longer than the term length, then its fine. if you don't put much down, definitely get gap insurance. if you like to change cars like you change underwear, well thats a different story...
my two cents...
-thene
They were advertising Hummers here in Dallas this morning, and it didn't sound like there was any fire sale going on from the ad I heard anyhow.
They will honor their previous sales agreement after the States Attorney Generals Office gives them a call.
They will very quickly reverse their poor decision process.
Just move on and don't do business with the dealership. I'm sure there is another Honda dealership around and you won't have to have a bad feeling about the transaction.
If you have waited this long, then you can wait a little more. We're presold on EX-L CR-V's through March.
-Moo
I am inclined to agree with you, madmanmoo, to make sure I get my deposit credited back to my card (they said they would but why should I believe them?) and move on to another dealer or another make/model. My van drives great and at this point I can wait another year. I just thought the whole thing seemed weird and it really turned me off on Hondas. If they are this squirrely in sales what nightmares were waiting for me from the service manager? It was good lesson that a sales agreement and a deposit are meaningless to a dealer and they can squirm out of it when it is profitable. Thanks everybody for your insight.
Sounds like this bimmer salesgirl isn't all that good though.
Dealers hate losing money on used cars, so I am sure that the u/c manager believes someone will come along and pay him what he wants.
If that doesn't happen and the car gets older, esp this month with a book change coming March 1st, you should be able to get it for less.
I'm a little surprise at the drop in trade numbers. How many total miles are on there?
Don't let this turn you off on Hondas. It has nothing to do with the product. It has everything to do with the dealership you're going with.
I had a horrible experience with a particular franchise who cleaned my carpets. I won't use those particular people again, but I'll probably use the product. Don't confuse the two.
It was good lesson that a sales agreement and a deposit are meaningless to a dealer and they can squirm out of it when it is profitable.
Again, I wouldn't go too far with that. Another option you had is to pull the trade and then sell it on your own. Pay the original price on the new vehicle but don't worry about what they will give you on your vehicle. Go to Carmax even, see what they will give you.
There are all kinds of options for you to make this a positive experience. There are good and bad everywhere. Find the good folks! You've found a great product!
-Moo
Most of them have built in clauses for exactly this reason.
Plus, no goods or money exchanged hands.