well, i don't think it's the salesperson's job to be a pinch-accountant, nor a social worker.
i was just wondering though when you determine a person is reaching - what do you do? proceed? i mean some cases have got to be obvious and i presume you wouldn't be opportunistic. sometimes you just have to be straight with a customer, right?
stories of people financing for such long periods or leasing - i wonder what the heck happened to reason and why do we advertise, value, re-enforce and enable such bad choices?
is finding more appropriate rides for people in these cases rewarded at a dealership?
I think that kind of advice is the customer's accountant's job and not ours as to how much debt they have and what they should be or shouldn't be getting into.
Don't you think that a salesman has some moral responsibility to direct the customer into something that they can actually afford? You are reinforcing ny opinion that the salesman really doesn't have my best interest at heart.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't you think that a salesman has some moral responsibility to direct the customer into something that they can actually afford? You are reinforcing ny opinion that the salesman really doesn't have my best interest at heart.
When a customer comes in and says they have a budget of $XXXXX, then I try to work in that budget.
If they come in and say I want a 2007 Shinymobile, then I do my best to work out a deal for them and sell them the car.
I mean if the payments come out to something exhorbitant it is your job as a customer to say that it's too high or you can't afford it, or that you need to look for something cheaper.
I don't go blow my $10k credit card or line of credit on a wrist watch or diamond encrusted necklace because I know it doesn't make sense for me to do that even though I have the credit to do so.
I would think that most people that come in to a dealership have an idea of how much they want to spend on a car.
Maybe it works differently in high pressure dealerships where a person who comes in looking for a $10k car ends up driving a $600/month 60 month lease SUV. But even then the customer has the final say whether they'll take the deal or not.
When I have a customer who say they want $300/month car I will show them 5 different options and they can decide for themselves what they'd like to do. IF they can't affrod the $300/month payment in the first place then why are they out shopping for such a car? :confuse:
well, i don't think it's the salesperson's job to be a pinch-accountant, nor a social worker.
Absolutely. When I go to a car dealership to buy a car I'm hoping to be treated with honesty, but I'm not expecting them to have my financial or any other kind of welfare at heart.
Car dealers sell cars, financial advisors advise on finance, I don't expect one to provide the services of the other.
The only people I have ever expected to genuinely have my welfare at heart make a very short list, my parents, my wife..........and me!
This is one issue that I see as very clear cut. If I'm offered a Kia at $900 @ month for 60 months and I accept, then it's my responsibility and not that of the 'wicked' car dealer.
.....the salesman is trained to make a sale and do what s/he needs to get the sale. That may not be in the customers best interest.
Not meaning to be rude, but isn't that stating the obvious?
Doesn't every customer have a reasonable expectation that the car salesperson will not only be trained in product knowledge, but also in sales techniques aimed at retaining as much profit as possible?
Not just cars, but retail products of any kind. Isn't a salesperson supposed by definition to sell, rather just take an order?
The problem is that many sales people start out by saying: "I will work hard for you so as to get you the best deal". In truth, most are interested in the best deal for themselves: "$600 Lease for 60 months".
If you are a spade, you should not present yourself as a heart...
I told him he should be riding a bus and not a car for the next few years.
I give you credit for trying to be a financial advisor but from what you said below it didn't work.
He insisted on this car and went through with it.
After trying to help someone and you're ignored there isn't much more you can do for that person other than write up the order before he goes next door and that salesman eats your lunch.
Remember ......... you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Sounds like the guy in question just wanted to die of thirst and it wasn't your fault because you tried.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think what you may be trying to say is that the shopper also needs some training in order to level the playing field, so to speak. Perhaps these Forums help in that regard.
In terms of market, a sale doesn't occur unless it is in the interest of both parties.
Thanks, it's not often if ever, that I do that (advise someone against a purchase).
This story actually has more to it..
The guy was just 19, and his mom was there with him and she was also aware of his insurance situation ($8k a year).
His trade in was an old Prelude with no clutch sitting about 50 miles away from the dealership at his home. We actually sent out a wholesaler to check it out, and he put a bid on it and bought it for us (this was so the customer wouldn't have to tow it to us).
The Integra he bought from us also needed a new clutch, so we arranged to have one put in. At the time we had a big snowstorm and he wanted a courtesy car while he was waiting for the Integra. He was telling us that he had 3 accidents in the past year the last one totalling his mom's truck just a couple weeks before this purchase. We wouldn't give him a courtesy car because of that but we paid for his cab fare back to our dealership.
Anyways he gets his Integra with a brand new clutch. I follow up with him and he's bragging to me how great of a car it is and how he's driving 200km/h (120mph) on some city streets. :surprise:
About 2 weeks after that I get a call from him that the new clutch in the Integra he just bought from us is not working anymore. :confuse: We bring the car into our shop and they take it apart. Tunrs out he broke the actual clutch (I think it was the friction plate) in two.
He didn't want to pay for a new one, and the management took the situation over from there. However it was not in his favour with the driving record he had, the bragging about his speeding, and the Prelude he traded in with a fried clutch as well.
I'm with tidester on this one. You go to a doctor for medical advice. You go to a priest, rabbi, shaman, etc for spiritual advice. Why would anyone think that they should go to a car sales person for financial advice. Their job is to sell cars, not to get your financial ducks in a row.
Fortunately, we live in a free society. We're free to make decisions (both good and bad). It's up to us to make the best ones for our families and ourselves...not to expect a car salesperson/dealership to do that for us. We all live with our decisions, not the car salesperson.
the funny thing is all the information is out there for a buyer to truly be informed, and yet they aren't. that's no one's fault but that individual person's.
just like i wouldn't go to a financial advisor to buy a car, i wouldn't go to a car salesperson for financial advise.
just like i wouldn't go to a financial advisor to buy a car,
That would be a good first step. Do an analysis on your financial position before deciding what you are going to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on.
i wouldn't go to a car salesperson for financial advise.
But don't you think that a car sales person should have some responsibility to "hey you really cannot afford this, here is something else you can try"?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
While a financial advisor will not sell you a car they can look at you financial situation and say "this kind of car you can afford and this kind you cannot".
While a salesman doesn't set your budget and plan for your future they should have some moral responsibility not to sell more than they know a customer can afford.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
...I wonder what a car salesman would think of me if I drove onto their lot in a well-cared for 1988 Buick Park Avenue with some paint issues, but it is very clean inside and out and still holds a shine. I'm 41 years-old but look younger, am wearing a Tommy Hilfiger shirt, Dockers pants, Nikes, and a cheap Pulsar watch. It's a Saturday afternoon, so I might have slight stubble. The car I'm shopping for is either a new Buick Lucenre CXS or a Cadillac DTS. Do you think I'm for real or just somebody wasting your time?
"While a salesman doesn't set your budget and plan for your future they should have some moral responsibility not to sell more than they know a customer can afford"
To a certain extent, doesn't a F&I guy have to do this? What I mean is...if he repeatedly gets people approved for loans that are too lofty for them, and a large # of deals that he sets up turn into repos, won't the financial institutions eventually quit working with that dealership? Aren't their any consequences for dealerships that repeatedly set up loans for people that they can't afford, and default on?
But don't you think that a car sales person should have some responsibility to "hey you really cannot afford this, here is something else you can try"?
IMO, no. I would never expect a car salesman to look at what little financial information about me that he has access to and say antyhing like that.
I don't think any salesperson has any responsibility to tell me what I can / can't afford.
Assuming the customer doesn't clearly come across as having some kind of mental issue....and as long as they aren't falsifying any #s on my credit application, or doing anything illegal to get me approved for something I cannot afford, then I think I should have to take responsibility for my own actions.
and how do they determine what you can and can't afford? for all the salesperson knows, you could be coming into a lot of money, or like to keep your cash in your sock drawer. its not the salespersons responsibility to tell you what you can or cannot afford. you told them what you can/cannot afford when you came in and told the salesperson what you were interested in. if salespeople started asking qualifying questions, and really going through your financial records to determine what you could or couldn't afford, people would complain about that too. "who does this salesperson think he is, telling me what i can or cannot afford!"
its a no win situation for the salesperson...they are always the evil bad guys, no matter what they do.
Lemko - I think that I'm going to talk to you seriously based on the way you're dressed and the excellent condition of your car, but you're not going to get too much time unless you say something serious very quickly.
I'm going to start out with, "Nice Car - did you restore it?" and see how you react to that. While knowing darn well that it's too new to really be a restoration. It's very well maintained and that's a good sign. It takes money to keep a car in that condition. So: You have the money to take care of your car, and you're well dressed, so that's a positive . I'm thinking possible sale.
Note, however, if you were dressed in cut-offs and a T-shirt, I'd be thinking you're a time-waster out in your (please, don't take this wrong - ) aged uncle's car because you don't have one that runs.
My next statement is - "Gee that's a beauty, but I don't know what you'd get on a trade-in from our used car guys" Your answer here is the make or break response in my opinion
If you say. "Oh, I'm not trading her, she's just my weekend car", then we talk a little more.
If you say, "She's worth quite a lot to the right person or anything that suggests you're driving an older car 'cause you're stingy, it's adios and via con Buick. 'Cause that says to me, you're a candidate for another beautiful classic (read used) car and not a new Lucerene. I'll go for the next fish and let you wander the lot alone.
More so than I would ask someone pulling up in a 3 yr old Volvo, or bimmer, or Lexus.
Lets face it, appearances do matter. Maybe you have the wherewithall to buy a $50,000 car and just choose not to. That is fine. Most people driving older cars simply don't. Salespeople get stroked all the time. The good ones have the ability to determine if that is the case or not.
But don't you think that a car sales person should have some responsibility to "hey you really cannot afford this, here is something else you can try"?
No, it isn't. We are all adults. We should all know what we can and cannot afford. The salesperson isn't your father, or accountant. His job is just to make a deal that you and the dealership will accept.
Most people driving older cars simply don't[have the money].
I'd like to amplify that with one slight modification - even if they HAVE the money, I think they're more likely to buy another old car than a new one. Thriftyness habits are hard to break.
I plan to buy an '06 or '07 Solara convertible - maybe an SLE - in a month or so. I currently drive an '02 Honda CRV which I'm not going to be trading in. I will probably be showing up at the dealership in my work uniform of beat-up shoes, khaki pants and a turtleneck. I have a great financial picture, and will be paying at least half in cash. I'm not going to be washing the salt off my CRV or dressing up any differently to make a good impression on the salesperson. I wonder how quickly they'll come out to greet me??!!
just because we are adults doesn't mean we should be dealing for a car.
i'm reminded of the mentally disadvantaged indivdual in GA that was taken by a used car salesman last year and put into a vehicle with financing terms that would be impossible for the mere mortal.
it took a call to the local tv investigative news team to slap the owner of the lot up side the head. he made every legit salesman look bad.
that's preditory.
reminds me of those title loan places.
people are foolishly willing to think you're working for them, when you aren't. some other poster said you're trying to maximize your profits. edmunds readers know that.
hey, is a bestbuy salesman going to raise a flag when you're putting that 3K dollar widescreen on their rather solar temp credit card? probably not.
i see the point.
but, it's not like your advertising someone can get better financing than the terms you'll be providing. you really aren't in the business to do the best you can by your client are you? you are looking for the easy catch aren't you? and i don't buy the "i'm here to show you the car" line.
i've actually been turned down at dealerships because i was informed. go figure. i definitely knew more about the vehicles than most of the sales staff at two stores. they weren't in a position to show me anything. so they wouldn't sell to me even if i was throwing money at them.
all i was saying is it would be refreshing to hear stories of salespeople, the dealership management, or say the F&I guys actually saving a customer big $$$.
i liked the story of the integra purchaser being told that wasn't the car for him. i would have liked it even better if they just said no to the kid.
good gosh, leasing and turning cars, 60 and 72mo notes. i'm sure they make sense for someone, i just can't figure out who.
if they can't do it in 4, show them the door. :shades:
Have a 2003 Honda Civic EX just turned over 70,000 Do the trade-in values drop significantly when cars pass the 100,000 mile mark? Buyers more stand offish by cars that are just over a 100K than if it was 90K? It's paid for and nice not having car payments, but would like to get the most out of the trade-in. All required maint. done at dealer.
If you say, "She's worth quite a lot to the right person or anything that suggests you're driving an older car 'cause you're stingy, it's adios and via con Buick.
And then you miss out on the sale.
Three years ago, I stopped at one of the Chicagoland Lexus dealers (and had a signed purchase orders in my pocket). I could see at least a couple of salesman move away as I pulled up into the deive. The guy who "was stuck" with me had an easy sale and will be receiving another one soon.
Well, if you are REALLY worried about that, the may I suggest you work with the Fleet or Internet dept?
Fact is, you can get ignored no matter how you are dressed. I've been in plenty of stores, not just car dealers and have been ignored, and I dress pretty well. The flip side is that I used to go to the local chevy store to get parts for my vette , and I would get assaulted. I prefer to be ignored at car dealers.
i've actually been turned down at dealerships because i was informed. go figure. i definitely knew more about the vehicles than most of the sales staff at two stores. they weren't in a position to show me anything. so they wouldn't sell to me even if i was throwing money at them.
Oh, I am sure there is more to that story then you are letting on. Dealers don't let ego get in the way of a sale.
Nahh, i'm not really worried about that at all!! I know that I am going to buy, and what I plan to buy, and what I hope to pay. I have just thought this was an interesting conversation, and I also have felt a little weird about going in and test driving something (like that SLE, maybe) while I'm wearing sweatpants or not being all made up in advance. Like I'm not worthy of doing so, although my finances are no different whether I'm wearing a dress and heels or sweats!
Aren't their any consequences for dealerships that repeatedly set up loans for people that they can't afford, and default on?
I would think so but how many banks does the F&I guy work with? If its 2 dozen and he sets up one or two of these bad loans up a month on average any bank will get one bad one once every year or two. I don't think that would even raise an eyebrow at a bank.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I used to work at a restaurant as a server. A well dressed man and his wife (?) sat down and I asked them for drink orders. The gentleman tells me that he is a recovering alcoholic and that he is celebrating the anniversary of his quitting with just a couple of drinks.
What, as a server, are you supposed to do?
A lady purchased a used vehicle from me two weeks ago. She called back last week and said that she hated her new vehicle. What can we do? I told her what we could give back to her on a trade-in. She responds to me, what do you think I'm stupid? I told her she should hang onto it for awhile and not lose money on it.
Then I find out that she has gone to another salesperson and asked the same question. He ended up selling her a vehicle by showing more for the trade than it was worth.
I dropped the ball by trying to think about my customer's financial position.
As a salesperson, I don't think our job is to consult and advise too much on financials. People are going to do what they want regardless of the advice you give.
No, the dealerships are not forcing anyone to sign papers. There are no guns held to their heads, no threats of violence. We did not go to their houses and demand that they purchase a vehicle.
Our society acts so carebear sometimes. These are adults making adult decisions. We are paid to provide a service, not hold people's hands. It is the banks that make the final decision on whether or not to approve someone. This is not the dealership making those calls.
If a bank wants to take a high risk buyer over and over, that is their perogative. They know the risks and are being well compensated for that risk with the high interest they are yielding.
And this is where the #$@ begins. Awhile back the sales people here were talking about how they are the advocate for the buyer and that they work with them to get what it best for them, Now when it comes to this its "Your an adult, we are not your father".
Its either one or the other, you can't be both.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I guess then it's providing the service. Because the reality of the situation is that SOME of your salespeople do care about their customers. Some do have your best interests in mind.
My point is, at the end of the day, people will do what they want to do. I can care about people and work to find the best vehicle for them, but where does that end?
People do what they want to do. Since we can't be both, then I guess we'll just sell cars.
hey, is a bestbuy salesman going to raise a flag when you're putting that 3K dollar widescreen on their rather solar temp credit card?
Two points about that, first is that a best buy salesman most likely won't have the experience that most of the sales people on this forum have. Secondly buying a $3K TV is a little different that a $30K car. Finally IIRC Best Buy salesmen are salaried and they get paid the same if you buy or don't buy that TV.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
While I'm sure that there are salespeople (and not just autos) out there that will take into consideration a customer's financial position and try to help them make a prudent purchase, I have to believe that the shopper who expects this to happen have also responded to emails from Nigeria regarding the unfortunate death of someone who worked for Shell Oil that happens to share their last name. And "Barrister Urubu" is willing to let you in on a $25 million (US dollar) fund transfer if you'll be so kind as to supply a little personal financial information...
In a nutshell, I'm trying to teach my kids that whenever you receive an unfamiliar email, walk into a store, go to church, meet a politician, surf the net that someone is trying to separate you from your money. Some are worthy of your largesse, some are not. It is your money and life, if you make a mistake, it is your mistake and you will have to deal with it. If you choose to believe the F & I person that points out how low your montly paymenst will be with a 72 mo. note and you don't even know what the interest rate is or the opportunity cost here, well, you've now made a deal you deserve. Knowldedge is power, I'd like to think that people would have some kind of grip on reality when it comes to their finances. But, alas, there is one born every minute.
The good salespeople here I'm sure are the exception to the rule.
So, if you would just post your bank account #, ss # here, we can begin the $25 million (US Dollar) transfer. You can trust me, I'm more concerned with your financial well-being than trying to make as much money as I can...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
"People do what they want to do. Since we can't be both, then I guess we'll just sell cars"
I agree - at the end of the day, that's all you should do. If I come to you wanting a really expensive car, you should sell it to me. Grantide, I may have to stop contributing to all my retirement and savings accounts to be able to swing the payments on the car, but is it the salesman's job to tell me that I will most likely never be able to retire by blowing my money the way I do? - No.
Another thing a salesperson has to deal with is that different people have different priorities. If a 20 year old kid, still living at home, comes in and wants to buy a new blinged out Escalade, if he has the income to support the payments, the dealer should sell it to him. That kid (and his parents) may have no problem with him continuing to live at home, and the car may be the priority in his life. The same could be said with my first example of the retirement accounts...a 40 year old could put having a nice ride as the priority in his life, and just figures he will keep working forever in order to do so now (then pray he is able to work until death).
As I stated earlier - as long as the person is an adult, isn't displaying any obvious mental deficiencies, and the dealership isn't doing anything illegal to get a person qualified, they should sell them the car.
My job as a sales person is to find out what my customer wants and needs, what THEY (and the bank) want to pay, and fill that need better than my competition. The bank buys the deal, not the dealer. If bad credit is involved, the bank will want POI (proof of income), POR (proof of residence) and references before approving the loan. Also, banks will not approve a loan if loan to value is out of certain parameters. Don't blame the dealer for Repos, the bank approved and bought the loan.
I would reluctantly (after telling them I would only do that if they hammered the payments and did not let it go full term). If I didn't, the guy next door would.
No, the dealerships are not forcing anyone to sign papers.
but there are ways to get people to do things that they normally wouldn't do, and even make then think it was their ideal to boot.
We did not go to their houses and demand that they purchase a vehicle.
No but when they are at the dealership don't you try everything you can to make a sale if you think it is possible?
We are paid to provide a service,
No you are paid to sell cars, there is a big difference. And that difference can lead to unsavory characters doing things that are not excatly right since pay is determined by performance.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i never did a deal longer than 66 months. and in all honesty, if a person is looking to run a car into the ground (i would hope that takes longer than 5 years) what's the matter with a longer term to keep the payments down?
when i bought my car, i could have paid the 3 year term just as easily as the 5 year, but what if something happened, and i have less at my disposal per month towards the car, but im saddled with a $350 payment instead of a $275 payment? I was planning on keeping the car til it was paid off, then a few years longer while i saved up those payments towards my next car. why put myself in a position where i might get stuck with a higher payment just to finance over 3 years instead of 5? And the nicest part? I put enough down to never end up being upside down on that car (which i still have) even though i was hit once, and slipped on ice and rearranged my front end once...
but that's neither here nor there. salespeople sell cars, consumers buy cars, salespeople can make suggestions based on what a customer is saying they can afford, but in the end, its the consumers decision, and who am i to say no to them? I don't know all the circumstances, and if they are hellbent on buying something, it might as well be from me (when i was selling cars at least).
and if its obvious they can't afford a car, the banks wont go through with the loan. if people have the money, and just make poor financial decisions with it, why is that my problem? just like you don't care if salespeople make money, right?
it cuts both ways...you want us to care about a customers financial situation, but you don't care about our wallets or our families...
Comments
i was just wondering though when you determine a person is reaching - what do you do? proceed? i mean some cases have got to be obvious and i presume you wouldn't be opportunistic. sometimes you just have to be straight with a customer, right?
stories of people financing for such long periods or leasing - i wonder what the heck happened to reason and why do we advertise, value, re-enforce and enable such bad choices?
is finding more appropriate rides for people in these cases rewarded at a dealership?
Don't you think that a salesman has some moral responsibility to direct the customer into something that they can actually afford? You are reinforcing ny opinion that the salesman really doesn't have my best interest at heart.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
When a customer comes in and says they have a budget of $XXXXX, then I try to work in that budget.
If they come in and say I want a 2007 Shinymobile, then I do my best to work out a deal for them and sell them the car.
I mean if the payments come out to something exhorbitant it is your job as a customer to say that it's too high or you can't afford it, or that you need to look for something cheaper.
I don't go blow my $10k credit card or line of credit on a wrist watch or diamond encrusted necklace because I know it doesn't make sense for me to do that even though I have the credit to do so.
I would think that most people that come in to a dealership have an idea of how much they want to spend on a car.
Maybe it works differently in high pressure dealerships where a person who comes in looking for a $10k car ends up driving a $600/month 60 month lease SUV. But even then the customer has the final say whether they'll take the deal or not.
When I have a customer who say they want $300/month car I will show them 5 different options and they can decide for themselves what they'd like to do. IF they can't affrod the $300/month payment in the first place then why are they out shopping for such a car? :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Absolutely. When I go to a car dealership to buy a car I'm hoping to be treated with honesty, but I'm not expecting them to have my financial or any other kind of welfare at heart.
Car dealers sell cars, financial advisors advise on finance, I don't expect one to provide the services of the other.
The only people I have ever expected to genuinely have my welfare at heart make a very short list, my parents, my wife..........and me!
This is one issue that I see as very clear cut. If I'm offered a Kia at $900 @ month for 60 months and I accept, then it's my responsibility and not that of the 'wicked' car dealer.
You are responsible for your own actions and the salesperson has a moral responsibility to let you make your own decisions.
tidester, host
While that is true the salesman is trained to make a sale and do what s/he needs to get the sale. That may not be in the customers best interest.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not meaning to be rude, but isn't that stating the obvious?
Doesn't every customer have a reasonable expectation that the car salesperson will not only be trained in product knowledge, but also in sales techniques aimed at retaining as much profit as possible?
Not just cars, but retail products of any kind. Isn't a salesperson supposed by definition to sell, rather just take an order?
If you are a spade, you should not present yourself as a heart...
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I give you credit for trying to be a financial advisor but from what you said below it didn't work.
He insisted on this car and went through with it.
After trying to help someone and you're ignored there isn't much more you can do for that person other than write up the order before he goes next door and that salesman eats your lunch.
Remember ......... you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Sounds like the guy in question just wanted to die of thirst and it wasn't your fault because you tried.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think what you may be trying to say is that the shopper also needs some training in order to level the playing field, so to speak. Perhaps these Forums help in that regard.
In terms of market, a sale doesn't occur unless it is in the interest of both parties.
tidester, host
This story actually has more to it..
The guy was just 19, and his mom was there with him and she was also aware of his insurance situation ($8k a year).
His trade in was an old Prelude with no clutch sitting about 50 miles away from the dealership at his home. We actually sent out a wholesaler to check it out, and he put a bid on it and bought it for us (this was so the customer wouldn't have to tow it to us).
The Integra he bought from us also needed a new clutch, so we arranged to have one put in. At the time we had a big snowstorm and he wanted a courtesy car while he was waiting for the Integra. He was telling us that he had 3 accidents in the past year the last one totalling his mom's truck just a couple weeks before this purchase. We wouldn't give him a courtesy car because of that but we paid for his cab fare back to our dealership.
Anyways he gets his Integra with a brand new clutch. I follow up with him and he's bragging to me how great of a car it is and how he's driving 200km/h (120mph) on some city streets. :surprise:
About 2 weeks after that I get a call from him that the new clutch in the Integra he just bought from us is not working anymore. :confuse: We bring the car into our shop and they take it apart. Tunrs out he broke the actual clutch (I think it was the friction plate) in two.
He didn't want to pay for a new one, and the management took the situation over from there. However it was not in his favour with the driving record he had, the bragging about his speeding, and the Prelude he traded in with a fried clutch as well.
What was this guy thinking? :confuse: :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
You need a functioning brain to be capable of thinking.
Obviously his was dead and had been for some time. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Fortunately, we live in a free society. We're free to make decisions (both good and bad). It's up to us to make the best ones for our families and ourselves...not to expect a car salesperson/dealership to do that for us. We all live with our decisions, not the car salesperson.
Plus if the buyer was fully informed there would be no use for sales people, all you would need are order takers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
just like i wouldn't go to a financial advisor to buy a car, i wouldn't go to a car salesperson for financial advise.
-thene
That would be a good first step. Do an analysis on your financial position before deciding what you are going to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on.
i wouldn't go to a car salesperson for financial advise.
But don't you think that a car sales person should have some responsibility to "hey you really cannot afford this, here is something else you can try"?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
a financial advisor will not sell me a car. i dont go to his office to pick out what i want, do the paperwork, and take delivery.
likewise a salesperson will not help me set a budget, plan for my future, and tell me what i should invest my money in...
better?
While a financial advisor will not sell you a car they can look at you financial situation and say "this kind of car you can afford and this kind you cannot".
While a salesman doesn't set your budget and plan for your future they should have some moral responsibility not to sell more than they know a customer can afford.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
To a certain extent, doesn't a F&I guy have to do this? What I mean is...if he repeatedly gets people approved for loans that are too lofty for them, and a large # of deals that he sets up turn into repos, won't the financial institutions eventually quit working with that dealership? Aren't their any consequences for dealerships that repeatedly set up loans for people that they can't afford, and default on?
IMO, no. I would never expect a car salesman to look at what little financial information about me that he has access to and say antyhing like that.
Assuming the customer doesn't clearly come across as having some kind of mental issue....and as long as they aren't falsifying any #s on my credit application, or doing anything illegal to get me approved for something I cannot afford, then I think I should have to take responsibility for my own actions.
its a no win situation for the salesperson...they are always the evil bad guys, no matter what they do.
I think that I'm going to talk to you seriously based on the way you're dressed and the excellent condition of your car, but you're not going to get too much time unless you say something serious very quickly.
I'm going to start out with, "Nice Car - did you restore it?" and see how you react to that. While knowing darn well that it's too new to really be a restoration. It's very well maintained and that's a good sign. It takes money to keep a car in that condition. So: You have the money to take care of your car, and you're well dressed, so that's a positive . I'm thinking possible sale.
Note, however, if you were dressed in cut-offs and a T-shirt, I'd be thinking you're a time-waster out in your (please, don't take this wrong - ) aged uncle's car because you don't have one that runs.
My next statement is - "Gee that's a beauty, but I don't know what you'd get on a trade-in from our used car guys"
Your answer here is the make or break response in my opinion
If you say. "Oh, I'm not trading her, she's just my weekend car", then we talk a little more.
If you say, "She's worth quite a lot to the right person or anything that suggests you're driving an older car 'cause you're stingy, it's adios and via con Buick. 'Cause that says to me, you're a candidate for another beautiful classic (read used) car and not a new Lucerene. I'll go for the next fish and let you wander the lot alone.
Just my spin
More so than I would ask someone pulling up in a 3 yr old Volvo, or bimmer, or Lexus.
Lets face it, appearances do matter.
Maybe you have the wherewithall to buy a $50,000 car and just choose not to.
That is fine.
Most people driving older cars simply don't.
Salespeople get stroked all the time.
The good ones have the ability to determine if that is the case or not.
No, it isn't.
We are all adults. We should all know what we can and cannot afford.
The salesperson isn't your father, or accountant.
His job is just to make a deal that you and the dealership will accept.
I'd like to amplify that with one slight modification - even if they HAVE the money, I think they're more likely to buy another old car than a new one. Thriftyness habits are hard to break.
i'm reminded of the mentally disadvantaged indivdual in GA that was taken by a used car salesman last year and put into a vehicle with financing terms that would be impossible for the mere mortal.
it took a call to the local tv investigative news team to slap the owner of the lot up side the head. he made every legit salesman look bad.
that's preditory.
reminds me of those title loan places.
people are foolishly willing to think you're working for them, when you aren't. some other poster said you're trying to maximize your profits. edmunds readers know that.
hey, is a bestbuy salesman going to raise a flag when you're putting that 3K dollar widescreen on their rather solar temp credit card? probably not.
i see the point.
but, it's not like your advertising someone can get better financing than the terms you'll be providing. you really aren't in the business to do the best you can by your client are you? you are looking for the easy catch aren't you? and i don't buy the "i'm here to show you the car" line.
i've actually been turned down at dealerships because i was informed. go figure. i definitely knew more about the vehicles than most of the sales staff at two stores. they weren't in a position to show me anything. so they wouldn't sell to me even if i was throwing money at them.
all i was saying is it would be refreshing to hear stories of salespeople, the dealership management, or say the F&I guys actually saving a customer big $$$.
i liked the story of the integra purchaser being told that wasn't the car for him. i would have liked it even better if they just said no to the kid.
good gosh, leasing and turning cars, 60 and 72mo notes. i'm sure they make sense for someone, i just can't figure out who.
if they can't do it in 4, show them the door. :shades:
And then you miss out on the sale.
Three years ago, I stopped at one of the Chicagoland Lexus dealers (and had a signed purchase orders in my pocket). I could see at least a couple of salesman move away as I pulled up into the deive. The guy who "was stuck" with me had an easy sale and will be receiving another one soon.
Fact is, you can get ignored no matter how you are dressed.
I've been in plenty of stores, not just car dealers and have been ignored, and I dress pretty well.
The flip side is that I used to go to the local chevy store to get parts for my vette , and I would get assaulted.
I prefer to be ignored at car dealers.
Oh, I am sure there is more to that story then you are letting on.
Dealers don't let ego get in the way of a sale.
I would think so but how many banks does the F&I guy work with? If its 2 dozen and he sets up one or two of these bad loans up a month on average any bank will get one bad one once every year or two. I don't think that would even raise an eyebrow at a bank.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What, as a server, are you supposed to do?
A lady purchased a used vehicle from me two weeks ago. She called back last week and said that she hated her new vehicle. What can we do? I told her what we could give back to her on a trade-in. She responds to me, what do you think I'm stupid? I told her she should hang onto it for awhile and not lose money on it.
Then I find out that she has gone to another salesperson and asked the same question. He ended up selling her a vehicle by showing more for the trade than it was worth.
I dropped the ball by trying to think about my customer's financial position.
As a salesperson, I don't think our job is to consult and advise too much on financials. People are going to do what they want regardless of the advice you give.
-Moo
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Our society acts so carebear sometimes. These are adults making adult decisions. We are paid to provide a service, not hold people's hands. It is the banks that make the final decision on whether or not to approve someone. This is not the dealership making those calls.
If a bank wants to take a high risk buyer over and over, that is their perogative. They know the risks and are being well compensated for that risk with the high interest they are yielding.
-Moo
Its either one or the other, you can't be both.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My point is, at the end of the day, people will do what they want to do. I can care about people and work to find the best vehicle for them, but where does that end?
People do what they want to do. Since we can't be both, then I guess we'll just sell cars.
Seriously, snake, that's what we're paid to do.
-Moo
Two points about that, first is that a best buy salesman most likely won't have the experience that most of the sales people on this forum have. Secondly buying a $3K TV is a little different that a $30K car. Finally IIRC Best Buy salesmen are salaried and they get paid the same if you buy or don't buy that TV.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In a nutshell, I'm trying to teach my kids that whenever you receive an unfamiliar email, walk into a store, go to church, meet a politician, surf the net that someone is trying to separate you from your money. Some are worthy of your largesse, some are not. It is your money and life, if you make a mistake, it is your mistake and you will have to deal with it. If you choose to believe the F & I person that points out how low your montly paymenst will be with a 72 mo. note and you don't even know what the interest rate is or the opportunity cost here, well, you've now made a deal you deserve. Knowldedge is power, I'd like to think that people would have some kind of grip on reality when it comes to their finances. But, alas, there is one born every minute.
The good salespeople here I'm sure are the exception to the rule.
So, if you would just post your bank account #, ss # here, we can begin the $25 million (US Dollar) transfer. You can trust me, I'm more concerned with your financial well-being than trying to make as much money as I can...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Ever have someone stretch a loan out to 72 or even 84 months to afford the payment? Would you still sell that car to that guy/gal?
Granted there are times when you cannot tell, but there are other times when it is obvious.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree - at the end of the day, that's all you should do. If I come to you wanting a really expensive car, you should sell it to me. Grantide, I may have to stop contributing to all my retirement and savings accounts to be able to swing the payments on the car, but is it the salesman's job to tell me that I will most likely never be able to retire by blowing my money the way I do? - No.
Another thing a salesperson has to deal with is that different people have different priorities. If a 20 year old kid, still living at home, comes in and wants to buy a new blinged out Escalade, if he has the income to support the payments, the dealer should sell it to him. That kid (and his parents) may have no problem with him continuing to live at home, and the car may be the priority in his life. The same could be said with my first example of the retirement accounts...a 40 year old could put having a nice ride as the priority in his life, and just figures he will keep working forever in order to do so now (then pray he is able to work until death).
As I stated earlier - as long as the person is an adult, isn't displaying any obvious mental deficiencies, and the dealership isn't doing anything illegal to get a person qualified, they should sell them the car.
but there are ways to get people to do things that they normally wouldn't do, and even make then think it was their ideal to boot.
We did not go to their houses and demand that they purchase a vehicle.
No but when they are at the dealership don't you try everything you can to make a sale if you think it is possible?
We are paid to provide a service,
No you are paid to sell cars, there is a big difference. And that difference can lead to unsavory characters doing things that are not excatly right since pay is determined by performance.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
when i bought my car, i could have paid the 3 year term just as easily as the 5 year, but what if something happened, and i have less at my disposal per month towards the car, but im saddled with a $350 payment instead of a $275 payment? I was planning on keeping the car til it was paid off, then a few years longer while i saved up those payments towards my next car. why put myself in a position where i might get stuck with a higher payment just to finance over 3 years instead of 5? And the nicest part? I put enough down to never end up being upside down on that car (which i still have) even though i was hit once, and slipped on ice and rearranged my front end once...
but that's neither here nor there. salespeople sell cars, consumers buy cars, salespeople can make suggestions based on what a customer is saying they can afford, but in the end, its the consumers decision, and who am i to say no to them? I don't know all the circumstances, and if they are hellbent on buying something, it might as well be from me (when i was selling cars at least).
and if its obvious they can't afford a car, the banks wont go through with the loan. if people have the money, and just make poor financial decisions with it, why is that my problem? just like you don't care if salespeople make money, right?
it cuts both ways...you want us to care about a customers financial situation, but you don't care about our wallets or our families...
which is it snake?