Sounds like the dealer had a change of heart. It is a shame that they chose to act this way, but it does happen. I'd find another Honda dealer, or go look at another brand of car.
sorry to hear about your troubles. i can imagine its truly frustrating. i wouldn't let this one experience turn you off from honda however, because that is an unfair judgement. not every honda dealer everywhere is going to do these things. if you really like the CR-V, just find a different honda dealer to work with. they are popular vehicles apparently, so your best bet might be to order one, especially if you arent in a rush.
It happens all the time where people put deposits on cars (new and used) and sit on them....
True, but that's not what was being claimed. They didn't claim a deposit had been made, they basically said "somebody's down here ready to sign, but you still have a chance"
I think there is a lot of assumptions at play in this situation
Ha, exactly. That's why I came on here to see where the various assumptions stand
well, right now you are at, or maybe below (depending on features of car) edmunds price. $21K seems a little low, and maybe the dealer won't take you seriously b/c you haven't given a serious offer. maybe they thought your offer was rediculus so they made an equally rediculus offer of another $300 off. Wholesale should be around $21 for the car (again depending on features), but they might be bringing in more money than that at auctions in your area.
Ha, see, these are the assumptions/info I was trying to see were accurate. The price I was told for wholesale for the car was about $19-20k. Like I said, I know my offer was low, but when I'm under the impression that it will fetch that price at auction, I'm not going to offer an exorbitant amount. I appreciate the info.
if your research says car should be worth 19-21K, and if you still want the car, i think it reasonable to make another offer. be prepared with, i will buy the car right now. here's my best offer - and give it to them.
if the salesperson isn't engaged then so be it. move on.
what is an exorbitant amount for the vehicle? it's value is it's value - subjective and everything. what is the value to you?
however, asking you to pay 2K for the certification? no no thanks. i think that is a super scam myself. i personally don't find that worth much value-wise. i'm sure they are marking it up because they pre-pended the vehicle with the word "certified". if it wasn't a certified vehicle, what would it be worth?
i'm sure on any used vehicle, they'd have to make sure the basic systems are in good working order.
now, did they put a lot into the car? whos to know? however, you have no idea what they paid for the car.
Sounds like this bimmer salesgirl isn't all that good though.
Actually, I don't mind the salesgirl at all. Very friendly and personable. I kinda get the feeling she really wants to get the sale done, but the people behind her are the ones holding it up and are the ones pushing these tactics on her. Then again, she could be good at giving me that impression.
now, did they put a lot into the car? whos to know? however, you have no idea what they paid for the car.
From what I'm reasonably sure of, they did the 30k maintanence and put new tires on it. 30k doesn't really count (and IMO, most of the cert process) because this is all work that's covered up to 50k miles.
But no, I have no idea what they paid for/gave in as trade value for the car.
i actually had a customer come in and look at a car they liked. they just wanted to see one more car, but they were really interested in the one that i had. i let them go, and they said they'd call back later that afternoon. Well, after they left, another person came in on that same car (another salesperson had them). I called and told them that someone else was there looking at the car, and if they wanted to put a deposit on the car so they had first right of refusal. they said no, they are sure it will be there when they get back.
well they come back a few hours later, and the car they wanted was gone. i did my part, gave them a shot to secure it...but they didn't want to. turns out, they didn't like the other car they went to look at either, so now they were back at square one....
thats how it works sometimes. maybe there was someone seriously looking at the car, and she knew you were interested, and didn't want to see you lose out. turns out that in your case the guy didn't buy...but if he had?
The bottom line here is basically you're just dealing with an unethical dealership.1,000 miles in a month should not even be an issue and the idea it drops the value of a $1,500 trade in half is ludicrous. My thoughts without even knowing the Dealer are that this is not the first time they have used these kind of tactics.
I wouldn't let it ruffle your feathers. Just keep touching bases with the saleslady. Keep on making offers. If they truly can't sell the vehicle lower, than they won't.
Thanks. I've been keeping touch with her, and sent another offer today a little higher.. $22,500. We'll see where it goes and thanks for the reply
...asking you to pay 2K for the certification? ... i think that is a super scam myself. i personally don't find that worth much value-wise. i'm sure they are marking it up because they pre-pended the vehicle with the word "certified". if it wasn't a certified vehicle, what would it be worth?
The BMW CPO warranty is something that I personally like a lot. BMW's can be really expensive to repair if not under warranty.
Yes, you're essentially paying for an extended warranty up front but it's good out to 7 years or 100K miles, and it includes free roadside assistance and - at my dealership - a free loaner.
Yes, you could probably buy your own warranty for a little less, but this one has two special virtues to me:
1. It's no hassle through the dealership. 2. When you go to sell the car, a. you can have all the little nitnoid stuff fixed for small investment b. you tell the next buyer they don't have to worry as - sure, it's got 60K on it, but it's still under warranty.
I think that's worth a pretty good penny on a BMW. $2K? Maybe not but I think it's worth more than an aftermarket warranty that delivers the same service based on the things I'v mentioned above. What would that cost?
I think that's worth a pretty good penny on a BMW. $2K? Maybe not but I think it's worth more than an aftermarket warranty that delivers the same service based on the things I'v mentioned above. What would that cost?
I agree on the "liking" of the BMW warranty. The what would it cost question is a little difficult to answer though. The CPO warranty is not 7, it's 6 years, meaning it only adds 2 additional years onto the original 4yr/50k. I'd have to drive the car pretty hard to get 50k in 2 years. I looked up what a 3rd party extended warranty would be at warranty direct and it's about $2300. BUT, that's an additional FOUR years, not two.
You have to be careful w/ aftermarket warranties on expensiv cars. Most of them want to use aftermarket parts, or want to send an adjuster to look into the claim. CPO warranties are more user friendly, and you usually get a special APR to go with them.
well i haven't sold cars in over a year now, so its not me
but hey, i had a very good chance to sell that car, and i didn't want the other salesperson to sell it out from under my customers...thats probably what it came down to...i mean, she IS there to make money, right?
user77....my issue with thumper stereos isn't the fact that they exist, or even the amount of money they cost. It's the mere fact that not everyone wants to hear them going down the street. I don't have any issues to what you listen to in your car, just don't assume everyone else wants to listen to it, too.
I'm probably stereotyping my son, but I won't be contributing to his "thumper" grail quest (his grandmother might be another story, however).
As a fellow car enthusiast who is not in the business, I don't see much of any fault with the dealer or the salesperson, other than the questionable "Hurry -- We've got another customer looking to buy this car!" tactic.
I just purchased a Certified '05 325Ci coupe with 29K miles. It has the sports package, leather, and xenons; but it also has manual seat adjustments. The final negotiated price was about $25.5K. For that price, I considered myself extremely fortunate. I honestly believe they wouldn't have sold it for $25.0K (at that time), even if I held my ground firmly and walked away -- which I did on my first visit.
As Volvomax says, there is value to the CPO warranty that I would never equate with a 3rd-party warranty. I personally think the BMW CPO warranty is worth at least $2K, but I understand this is a subjective issue. For yourself, this warranty will likely apply for only two years (unless you exceed 50K miles on the odometer before the car reaches its 4th birthday). For me, I'll reach 50K miles well before my car is 3-1/2, which means my CPO coverage may last almost three years or so. In either case, BMW repairs can be very expensive at times, and BMWs are not known for being bullet-proof during years 5 and beyond.
Any car that just went thru the BMW Certification process should have been thoroughly inspected. (Because BMW USA provides this warranty coverage, I'm guessing they aren't very fond of dealers missing defects during their inspection process!) This inspection can lead to new tires, possibly even a brake service. You might ask to see a record of the certification process for that particular car.
I had a 3rd party warranty on an RX-7 about 15 years ago, and it was a pain waiting and wondering if repairs would be authorized. Before my extended warranty had expired, the company was out of business.
By the way, $800 for the extended maintenance contract seems like a killer deal. I would not call $800 the going rate. I think $945 is the cheapest I've seen this contract since the price increase last year. I'm paying $995 thru my local dealer.
1) Does that Honda dealer have a web site, with a contact link directly to the General Manager? If so, you might want to inform him of the shoddy treatment you received. This worked for me once.
well, i'm thinking the cert is something you are paying for so it better walk on water for 2K.
i'd like to see the sheet on what they did on the car and what they checked.
on top of the approx 2K to be cert, they are asking for what? another .8K to extend it out. in my opinion, all combined, that's pretty steep for something that is probably full of exclusions.
if it is comprehensive and if the dealerships make good on it, it might be valuable. however, i'm thinking putting 3K in the bank is a better deal ultimately. i mean, if the car is as good as they say.
i just think certification programs in general are dubious.
"on top of the approx 2K to be cert, they are asking for what? another .8K to extend it out. in my opinion, all combined, that's pretty steep for something that is probably full of exclusions"
Whoa, Nelly! I think there's a misunderstanding here.
Any BMW Certificied vehicle automatically includes extended warranty coverage of up to 6yrs/100K miles. The $800+ you referenced is for extending the free maintenance program for that same 6yr/100K period. This covers the 60K & 90K mile services, all brake services, oil changes, belts, fluids, etc.
There are no special exclusions on the extended maintenance. The same maintenance is provided as during the first 4yrs/50K miles. However, there are some exclusions on the extended (certified) warranty coverage.
I agree some certications are dubious. Some offer very little -- maybe an extra year or two of drivetrain coverage. Some offer more, but don't allow the warranty coverage to be transferred to another buyer, such as a friend encountered with his Lexus.
I did indeed contact the General Manager, both by phone and email (I detailed my complaint, stuck to the facts as I knew them and tried to keep the steam to a minimum)and her silence has been deafening...maybe that's why they only have six CRVs at a time on their lot. I can't imagine their CSI index is very good.
No, I have not really checked out the RAV4, but I'll give it a look now that my husband wants absolutely nothing to do with Honda. Maybe he'll feel differently in a few months. I'm sure there are some very professional sales people out there that want to sell cars and want you to be their loyal customer over your lifetime. I just keep bumping into the bad ones who promise anything to hook you, get your out of the market and then try to pressure you at the end of a long wait and a big deposit. Ugh.
Sorry to hear it. OTOH, Honda makes dreadful small SUVs. That is to say they are mechanically excellent and all, but they are as soulless and bland as the Ford and Crhysler offerings.
The new Rav-4, otoh, is a much better option, IMO. Go check it out for sure!
It's essentially a 3/4 size 4-Runner, with all of the same features. And it has an optional 3rd row seat for those rare times when you might need it. It also has all of the off-road assist modes and such - it's quit capable in bad weather. It's definately a notch above the CRV.
I generally don't like Totoya for thei blandness and poor pricing, but the Rav-4 makes even me start having happy thoughts
I was told today it's now out to end of April in the south metro Boston area. Yikes, somebody call the fire department, the CRV is smokin'--but I am going to test the RAV 4. Just to keep busy.
Of any of the small SUV's in the market, I would have to say the RAV4 is the most competition. There are certainly things to like on both. Can't hurt to check it out. I think they work on their prices a whole lot more than we do too.
When a deal is a pre-sale......I'm assuming the salesman doesn't get a commission until the car is delivered months later and the paperwork all signed, correct? Does doing a factory order or pre-sale help at all a salesmans current month situation, or is it just giving him/her a headstart in those future months?
I think that of the Rav-4....you have seen/sat in/driven the new CR-V right? I think it was very well made....great fit and finish....as well as handled much better than the RAV-4...plus it had plenty of space.
Yeah, I just don't liek what Honda does with their cars for the most part. They are too plasticy and jellybean-ish. Too much like... like a Citizen watch.
Now, they keep excellent time and such, but most of them have no real bling or extra fanciness that you get with, say, a Seiko. Both are made in Japan, this is the closest I can come to explain this. In general, Toyota makes slightly better stuff than Honda when it comes to look and feel, despite the engines being virtually identical in reliability. Likewise, Seiko is usually seen as a tiny step up from a Citizen.
The fact is that Toyota has always made the fourth best trucks and SUVs on the planet, after Jeep, GM, and Ford. Honda isn't even in the same part of the list - somewhere down in "the others" section - and it shows if you actually take a Rav-4 into bad weather or even a gravel road. Toyota puts a little real SUV/truck into the Rav-4 where it counts.
Plus, the Rav-4 has a nice JBL speaker option - nice subwoofer. Definately the best soundsystem in its class.
Is it possible to trade a car in at the time of placing a factory order?
I know this sounds very unusual, but this was an initial plan of mine shortly before our son was born. We had 3 vehicles, and my ultimate goal was to get down to 2 cars. I also wanted to maximize my trade-in value. Thus, I was planning to give up the car immediately, as soon as we placed the order. My plan was to sell our weekend beater when the factory order finally arrived.
We didn't go thru with this because a sales manager ended up vetoing the Fleet guy's discounted price on the factory order. To paraphrase, he said something like, "We don't discount factory orders the way we do cars sitting on our lot!" After having already spent a week talking to the Fleet Sales guy, I was very frustrated the way this played out. I didn't visit that dealership again.
Just my opinion, but I think you've got your heart set on this particular BMW, and the dealer knows it! So he/she is just going to wait it out until you finally give in.
Unless of course, you don't. I'd say to start looking for other fish in the sea if you refuse to pay what you feel is an inflated price.
1) The BMW dealer pays BMWNA about $1300 to certify a car (for the warranty)... in addition, they must make certain the car is brought up to CPO standards.. doing the maintenance costs them nothing, as BMWNA already covers that. But, if it needs tires (new tires are usually required), reconditioning, etc, etc, then that is out of the dealer's pocket. I think the $2000 value someone put on it is pretty close. In fact, BMWNA will sell the same warranty to an original owner for around $2250. $800 for the maintenance is an absolute steal.
2) If you are looking at a 3.5yr old car with 40K miles, and you only drive 10K/yr, then the warranty/maintenance may not be worth the expense... But, if you are looking at a 3yr old car with 45K, and you drive 15K/yr, then the warranty/maintenance will be good for an extra 40K miles, and will probably pay off.
2A) When you are looking at a single used unit on a lot, no matter what the car is worth in the real world, they may not sell it for that.. A dealer will always tell you that your trade is worth what it is worth, and what you owe on it doesn't matter... but, they won't sell you their car for market value, because "we have more than that into it". Actually, dealers are just people, too.. They let ego and sunk costs affect their decisions, just like buyers do..
You may never be able to buy that car for what it is worth.. Plenty of fish in the sea, though...
Heh, I'm 22 and I have subs in my car. Its great for those few days when you want to turn it up and feel the vibes. Most of the time i use it at a resonable level, but who knows what your son has in mind. But it all depends on your son's driving record, his ability to drive and listen at the same time in a safe manner.
If your against the stereo for sound reasons, then there's nothing wrong with that. I can see why people would hate to have me pull up behind them at a red light. Also, it can be a safety issue.
If your against the stereo for cost reasons, Id HIGHLY recommend you force your son to do research online for pricing and learn to how to install it on his own. That way he can maintain it and then know how to fix things instead of simply driving to circuit city and paying them $$ everytime something happens. In my case, I installed $3k worth of components [retail value] for only about $1k. Installation fees at electronic stores can be ugly.
It is possible to trade in and leave a car at the time of placing a factory order if the factory order is some time away.
Doesn't happen too often but it is doable. In some cases we will hold the car until the new one arrives, and then sell it, and other times if it takes too long we will put it up for sale.
We had a customer trade in a 2005 Odyssey for an 2008 model early last year. That's almost two years beofre the purchase! :surprise:
They went travelling for about two years and didn't want to leave the vehicle behind or be bothered with selling it.
I have never had this happen. My managers are not interested in putting a number on a trade that we won't be able to sell for 3 months (or however long it takes to get the factory order).
They won't sell it because the deal isn't completely done.
Perhaps you can use the extra time while the factory order comes in to try and sell on your own or check with Carmax to see how much they will give you.
Take a look at the 07 Mitsubishi Outlander as well. Very nice features for the price. I am still trying to decide between the 07 CRV/ 07 Outlander/ 07 Santa Fe. CRV is very close to being out of it due to availability and price (as you have had issues with as well).
How about an Acura RDX? If you're looking to lease, they have a pretty strong lease right now. Also, since they are not as hot as the CR-V's, you may be able to get a well equipped one for a great price.
Same vehicle, just with a lot more luxury features and power seats!!
May I chime in here? I just purchased a 2007 Santa Fe Limited, AWD with just the standard equipment(well furnished) after researching the postings on the internet for the crv, rav outlander, and all the other 'small suvs'. IMO, Hyundai gives you the most for your money... vehicle and warranty. I don't know where you people are located, but if you want to get a great deal, go to Lia Hyundai of Hartford, CT for very friendly, professional personnel that will go the extra mile to get what you want if it isn't on the lot... they searched two months for me! Oh, and by the way, mention that PPB, the Dark Red Cherry guy, recommended them and they will throw in an extra goodie or two.
Curious about something I ran across while car shopping, and hoping some of the industry guys/gals here can shed some light on.
I've just started the process of looking for a replacement for our '00 Maxima SE, and have visited a number of delears. In each case, I made sure to let them know I was just looking, just wanted to see the car, get some info. and a brochure, and was weeks away from buying. Didn't even want a test drive yet. Got helpful, good responses all around (except for one presistent, hard sales attempt-grrr).
As part of the sales people's usual fact-finding questions (which were all perfectly reasonable and expected) - e.g. when were you looking to buy, etc, a couple sales guys wanted to know not just *if* I was trading in (I said I hadn't decided yet but it wasn't critical), but wanted a zillion details - make, model, exact mileage, condition, options, etc. and both wanted to get it inspected there and then, and really pressed me on it.
I can understand if I was ready to buy (or was close to), *and* I had indicated I wanted to trade in, and/or the trade in value was important. Here, none of that was true -they knew I was just kicking the tires, so I don't understand their insistence.
I turned them down since I just wanted to get in and out quickly, and the car needs to be cleaned up. They were clearly unhappy (and so was I by that point). What gives? We sure didn't talk numbers at all, so why the focus on the (very hypothetical) trade???
Getting the car inspected gives them lots of time to "work on you" and even take your car "hostage", if they think it might help. I'm not saying all of them would, just that as long as the car is being inspected, they have their window of opportunity to sell you "today".
Since when did 60 month financing become too long??? ...I was thinking that was pretty much the standard these days for mainstream America. I agree that going longer than 60 months is a bit excessive though and leaves one hopelessly buried in a vehicle. I personally would rather pay a little more in interest and spread my payments out over 60 months and direct more of my income towards 401K's, college savings, rainy day savings accounts, etc. than be saddled with a super high car payment.
Every decision can not be purely broken down to dollars and cents. How can you justify spending thousands to chase little white balls across pretty grass?...I don't think you can. How can you justify spending thousands on an ATV and hunting gear to go chase deer through the woods?... I don't think you can. Different strokes for different folks.
Dealers, what percentage of your clients pay cash/finance 24mos/36/48/60/72/84???? I suspect that it varies by make and relative wealth of the demographic area.
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As far as a salesman having any moral obligation to steer someone away from what might be a poor vehicle purchase decision:
I find it difficult to believe that ANYONE trying to SELL me ANYTHING truly has my best interest at heart; it is a conflict of interest from the beginning. My stock broker's true interest is to send his kid to college, not mine. My mortgage broker's intention is to find the mortgage product that will pay him the most commission, not to sign me up with a mortgage rate at the par rate. My life insurance agent is not going to tell me that the company down the street has cheaper rates and a product better suited to my needs. It is my job to seek out this sort of information. If I fall and bump my head, and decide to suspend 401k contributions, college savings, and eat bologna to put a 7 series BMW in the garage, it is my perogative....not the dealers responsibility to (politely) steer me to a used Avalon.
Aaahhhh, that makes sense - don't know why I didn't think of that. Totally foolish of them - it would've been a complete waste of their time - which I thought I'd made clear to them, since I wasn't even close to buying yet.
Overall, it was easy to tell the newbies from the experienced sales guys. The experienced ones immediately knew what I wanted and gave it to me in a prompt and pleasant fashion - and they didn't waste both our times trying to get me to buy right then and there.
The new ones, however, usually ignored what I said, and started on auto-pilot with canned spiels (that they were no doubt told they had to use) - "Hi, my name is X and I am here to give you...." One of them literally tried to order me around - taking my arm, moving me around the vehicle saying "please stand here while I explain this [unimportant to me!] feature to you, now please stand here..." The poor guy didn't know what to do when I politely stopped him, thanked him for the information, and said I'd be back if we narrowed down the choice to this model. He was literally frozen in mid-spiel, at a loss what to do. :P Another one had obviously been told he should use my name at every possible opportuntity - he must have used it in every single sentence, sometimes multiple times - afterwords, I'd wish I'd kept count
Anyway, I really prefer dealing with experienced sales people - with them they're happy to cut to the chase if you want, give you the info. you need, and then see if there's a deal to be done. All (or most!) of the BS is avoided.
Goodness, I couldn't let this pass. Toyota has made the best small trucks for over 20 years (and yes, I have owned many - Toyota, Nissan, Ford/Mazda, Isuzu). But when it comes to cars, Toyota is sooooo vanilla - I will take a Honda anyday. And most people looking at small SUVs are really wanting a very tall car, not a truck.
I say give me a '78 Land Cruiser anyday, 'cause I like trucks!
Comments
It is a shame that they chose to act this way, but it does happen.
I'd find another Honda dealer, or go look at another brand of car.
sorry to hear about your troubles. i can imagine its truly frustrating. i wouldn't let this one experience turn you off from honda however, because that is an unfair judgement. not every honda dealer everywhere is going to do these things. if you really like the CR-V, just find a different honda dealer to work with. they are popular vehicles apparently, so your best bet might be to order one, especially if you arent in a rush.
anyways, best of luck to you!
-thene
True, but that's not what was being claimed. They didn't claim a deposit had been made, they basically said "somebody's down here ready to sign, but you still have a chance"
I think there is a lot of assumptions at play in this situation
Ha, exactly. That's why I came on here to see where the various assumptions stand
1). ask your 21 year old what his hearing is worth now.
2). ask your 21 year old what his hearing will be worth later.
if responses to 1 or 2 don't help him see the light, you have my permission to smack him upside the head. :shades:
tough love hurts... so be prepared for more than one smacking. :surprise:
if the salesperson isn't engaged then so be it. move on.
what is an exorbitant amount for the vehicle? it's value is it's value - subjective and everything. what is the value to you?
however, asking you to pay 2K for the certification? no no thanks. i think that is a super scam myself. i personally don't find that worth much value-wise. i'm sure they are marking it up because they pre-pended the vehicle with the word "certified". if it wasn't a certified vehicle, what would it be worth?
i'm sure on any used vehicle, they'd have to make sure the basic systems are in good working order.
now, did they put a lot into the car? whos to know? however, you have no idea what they paid for the car.
Actually, I don't mind the salesgirl at all. Very friendly and personable. I kinda get the feeling she really wants to get the sale done, but the people behind her are the ones holding it up and are the ones pushing these tactics on her. Then again, she could be good at giving me that impression.
From what I'm reasonably sure of, they did the 30k maintanence and put new tires on it. 30k doesn't really count (and IMO, most of the cert process) because this is all work that's covered up to 50k miles.
But no, I have no idea what they paid for/gave in as trade value for the car.
well they come back a few hours later, and the car they wanted was gone. i did my part, gave them a shot to secure it...but they didn't want to. turns out, they didn't like the other car they went to look at either, so now they were back at square one....
thats how it works sometimes. maybe there was someone seriously looking at the car, and she knew you were interested, and didn't want to see you lose out. turns out that in your case the guy didn't buy...but if he had?
anyways, my two cents,
-thene
Thanks. I've been keeping touch with her, and sent another offer today a little higher.. $22,500. We'll see where it goes and thanks for the reply
The BMW CPO warranty is something that I personally like a lot. BMW's can be really expensive to repair if not under warranty.
Yes, you're essentially paying for an extended warranty up front but it's good out to 7 years or 100K miles, and it includes free roadside assistance and - at my dealership - a free loaner.
Yes, you could probably buy your own warranty for a little less, but this one has two special virtues to me:
1. It's no hassle through the dealership.
2. When you go to sell the car,
a. you can have all the little nitnoid stuff fixed for small investment
b. you tell the next buyer they don't have to worry as - sure, it's got 60K on it, but it's still under warranty.
I think that's worth a pretty good penny on a BMW. $2K? Maybe not but I think it's worth more than an aftermarket warranty that delivers the same service based on the things I'v mentioned above. What would that cost?
I agree on the "liking" of the BMW warranty. The what would it cost question is a little difficult to answer though. The CPO warranty is not 7, it's 6 years, meaning it only adds 2 additional years onto the original 4yr/50k. I'd have to drive the car pretty hard to get 50k in 2 years. I looked up what a 3rd party extended warranty would be at warranty direct and it's about $2300. BUT, that's an additional FOUR years, not two.
Most of them want to use aftermarket parts, or want to send an adjuster to look into the claim.
CPO warranties are more user friendly, and you usually get a special APR to go with them.
but hey, i had a very good chance to sell that car, and i didn't want the other salesperson to sell it out from under my customers...thats probably what it came down to...i mean, she IS there to make money, right?
-thene
I'm probably stereotyping my son, but I won't be contributing to his "thumper" grail quest (his grandmother might be another story, however).
I just purchased a Certified '05 325Ci coupe with 29K miles. It has the sports package, leather, and xenons; but it also has manual seat adjustments. The final negotiated price was about $25.5K. For that price, I considered myself extremely fortunate. I honestly believe they wouldn't have sold it for $25.0K (at that time), even if I held my ground firmly and walked away -- which I did on my first visit.
As Volvomax says, there is value to the CPO warranty that I would never equate with a 3rd-party warranty. I personally think the BMW CPO warranty is worth at least $2K, but I understand this is a subjective issue. For yourself, this warranty will likely apply for only two years (unless you exceed 50K miles on the odometer before the car reaches its 4th birthday). For me, I'll reach 50K miles well before my car is 3-1/2, which means my CPO coverage may last almost three years or so. In either case, BMW repairs can be very expensive at times, and BMWs are not known for being bullet-proof during years 5 and beyond.
Any car that just went thru the BMW Certification process should have been thoroughly inspected. (Because BMW USA provides this warranty coverage, I'm guessing they aren't very fond of dealers missing defects during their inspection process!) This inspection can lead to new tires, possibly even a brake service. You might ask to see a record of the certification process for that particular car.
I had a 3rd party warranty on an RX-7 about 15 years ago, and it was a pain waiting and wondering if repairs would be authorized. Before my extended warranty had expired, the company was out of business.
By the way, $800 for the extended maintenance contract seems like a killer deal. I would not call $800 the going rate. I think $945 is the cheapest I've seen this contract since the price increase last year. I'm paying $995 thru my local dealer.
Hope this helps!
2) Have you checked out the new RAV4?
i'd like to see the sheet on what they did on the car and what they checked.
on top of the approx 2K to be cert, they are asking for what? another .8K to extend it out. in my opinion, all combined, that's pretty steep for something that is probably full of exclusions.
if it is comprehensive and if the dealerships make good on it, it might be valuable. however, i'm thinking putting 3K in the bank is a better deal ultimately. i mean, if the car is as good as they say.
i just think certification programs in general are dubious.
Whoa, Nelly! I think there's a misunderstanding here.
Any BMW Certificied vehicle automatically includes extended warranty coverage of up to 6yrs/100K miles. The $800+ you referenced is for extending the free maintenance program for that same 6yr/100K period. This covers the 60K & 90K mile services, all brake services, oil changes, belts, fluids, etc.
There are no special exclusions on the extended maintenance. The same maintenance is provided as during the first 4yrs/50K miles. However, there are some exclusions on the extended (certified) warranty coverage.
I agree some certications are dubious. Some offer very little -- maybe an extra year or two of drivetrain coverage. Some offer more, but don't allow the warranty coverage to be transferred to another buyer, such as a friend encountered with his Lexus.
This program, imo, ain't bad.
No, I have not really checked out the RAV4, but I'll give it a look now that my husband wants absolutely nothing to do with Honda. Maybe he'll feel differently in a few months. I'm sure there are some very professional sales people out there that want to sell cars and want you to be their loyal customer over your lifetime. I just keep bumping into the bad ones who promise anything to hook you, get your out of the market and then try to pressure you at the end of a long wait and a big deposit. Ugh.
The new Rav-4, otoh, is a much better option, IMO. Go check it out for sure!
It's essentially a 3/4 size 4-Runner, with all of the same features. And it has an optional 3rd row seat for those rare times when you might need it. It also has all of the off-road assist modes and such - it's quit capable in bad weather. It's definately a notch above the CRV.
I generally don't like Totoya for thei blandness and poor pricing, but the Rav-4 makes even me start having happy thoughts
They do?
Maybe that explains why in most cases our 2007 CRV's are pre-sold before they even arrive!
We're presold through the end of March and it's starting to push out further. Just presold another today.
-Moo
-Moo
Just my opinion though!
Now, they keep excellent time and such, but most of them have no real bling or extra fanciness that you get with, say, a Seiko. Both are made in Japan, this is the closest I can come to explain this. In general, Toyota makes slightly better stuff than Honda when it comes to look and feel, despite the engines being virtually identical in reliability. Likewise, Seiko is usually seen as a tiny step up from a Citizen.
The fact is that Toyota has always made the fourth best trucks and SUVs on the planet, after Jeep, GM, and Ford. Honda isn't even in the same part of the list - somewhere down in "the others" section - and it shows if you actually take a Rav-4 into bad weather or even a gravel road. Toyota puts a little real SUV/truck into the Rav-4 where it counts.
Plus, the Rav-4 has a nice JBL speaker option - nice subwoofer. Definately the best soundsystem in its class.
Is it possible to trade a car in at the time of placing a factory order?
I know this sounds very unusual, but this was an initial plan of mine shortly before our son was born. We had 3 vehicles, and my ultimate goal was to get down to 2 cars. I also wanted to maximize my trade-in value. Thus, I was planning to give up the car immediately, as soon as we placed the order. My plan was to sell our weekend beater when the factory order finally arrived.
We didn't go thru with this because a sales manager ended up vetoing the Fleet guy's discounted price on the factory order. To paraphrase, he said something like, "We don't discount factory orders the way we do cars sitting on our lot!" After having already spent a week talking to the Fleet Sales guy, I was very frustrated the way this played out. I didn't visit that dealership again.
Unless of course, you don't. I'd say to start looking for other fish in the sea if you refuse to pay what you feel is an inflated price.
2) If you are looking at a 3.5yr old car with 40K miles, and you only drive 10K/yr, then the warranty/maintenance may not be worth the expense... But, if you are looking at a 3yr old car with 45K, and you drive 15K/yr, then the warranty/maintenance will be good for an extra 40K miles, and will probably pay off.
2A) When you are looking at a single used unit on a lot, no matter what the car is worth in the real world, they may not sell it for that.. A dealer will always tell you that your trade is worth what it is worth, and what you owe on it doesn't matter... but, they won't sell you their car for market value, because "we have more than that into it". Actually, dealers are just people, too.. They let ego and sunk costs affect their decisions, just like buyers do..
You may never be able to buy that car for what it is worth.. Plenty of fish in the sea, though...
regards,
kyfdx
(not the host here)
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If your against the stereo for sound reasons, then there's nothing wrong with that. I can see why people would hate to have me pull up behind them at a red light. Also, it can be a safety issue.
If your against the stereo for cost reasons, Id HIGHLY recommend you force your son to do research online for pricing and learn to how to install it on his own. That way he can maintain it and then know how to fix things instead of simply driving to circuit city and paying them $$ everytime something happens. In my case, I installed $3k worth of components [retail value] for only about $1k. Installation fees at electronic stores can be ugly.
Doesn't happen too often but it is doable. In some cases we will hold the car until the new one arrives, and then sell it, and other times if it takes too long we will put it up for sale.
We had a customer trade in a 2005 Odyssey for an 2008 model early last year. That's almost two years beofre the purchase! :surprise:
They went travelling for about two years and didn't want to leave the vehicle behind or be bothered with selling it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have never had this happen. My managers are not interested in putting a number on a trade that we won't be able to sell for 3 months (or however long it takes to get the factory order).
They won't sell it because the deal isn't completely done.
Perhaps you can use the extra time while the factory order comes in to try and sell on your own or check with Carmax to see how much they will give you.
There are always options.
-Moo
Same vehicle, just with a lot more luxury features and power seats!!
-Moo
I just purchased a 2007 Santa Fe Limited, AWD with just the standard equipment(well furnished) after researching the postings on the internet for the crv, rav outlander, and all the other 'small suvs'.
IMO, Hyundai gives you the most for your money... vehicle and warranty.
I don't know where you people are located, but if you want to get a great deal, go to Lia Hyundai of Hartford, CT for very friendly, professional personnel that will go the extra mile to get what you want if it isn't on the lot... they searched two months for me!
Oh, and by the way, mention that PPB, the Dark Red Cherry guy, recommended them and they will throw in an extra goodie or two.
I'm confused, is the extended maintenance free or $800+, can it really be both? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've just started the process of looking for a replacement for our '00 Maxima SE, and have visited a number of delears. In each case, I made sure to let them know I was just looking, just wanted to see the car, get some info. and a brochure, and was weeks away from buying. Didn't even want a test drive yet. Got helpful, good responses all around (except for one presistent, hard sales attempt-grrr).
As part of the sales people's usual fact-finding questions (which were all perfectly reasonable and expected) - e.g. when were you looking to buy, etc, a couple sales guys wanted to know not just *if* I was trading in (I said I hadn't decided yet but it wasn't critical), but wanted a zillion details - make, model, exact mileage, condition, options, etc. and both wanted to get it inspected there and then, and really pressed me on it.
I can understand if I was ready to buy (or was close to), *and* I had indicated I wanted to trade in, and/or the trade in value was important. Here, none of that was true -they knew I was just kicking the tires, so I don't understand their insistence.
I turned them down since I just wanted to get in and out quickly, and the car needs to be cleaned up. They were clearly unhappy (and so was I by that point). What gives? We sure didn't talk numbers at all, so why the focus on the (very hypothetical) trade???
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Every decision can not be purely broken down to dollars and cents. How can you justify spending thousands to chase little white balls across pretty grass?...I don't think you can. How can you justify spending thousands on an ATV and hunting gear to go chase deer through the woods?... I don't think you can. Different strokes for different folks.
Dealers, what percentage of your clients pay cash/finance 24mos/36/48/60/72/84???? I suspect that it varies by make and relative wealth of the demographic area.
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As far as a salesman having any moral obligation to steer someone away from what might be a poor vehicle purchase decision:
I find it difficult to believe that ANYONE trying to SELL me ANYTHING truly has my best interest at heart; it is a conflict of interest from the beginning. My stock broker's true interest is to send his kid to college, not mine. My mortgage broker's intention is to find the mortgage product that will pay him the most commission, not to sign me up with a mortgage rate at the par rate. My life insurance agent is not going to tell me that the company down the street has cheaper rates and a product better suited to my needs. It is my job to seek out this sort of information. If I fall and bump my head, and decide to suspend 401k contributions, college savings, and eat bologna to put a 7 series BMW in the garage, it is my perogative....not the dealers responsibility to (politely) steer me to a used Avalon.
Overall, it was easy to tell the newbies from the experienced sales guys. The experienced ones immediately knew what I wanted and gave it to me in a prompt and pleasant fashion - and they didn't waste both our times trying to get me to buy right then and there.
The new ones, however, usually ignored what I said, and started on auto-pilot with canned spiels (that they were no doubt told they had to use) - "Hi, my name is X and I am here to give you...." One of them literally tried to order me around - taking my arm, moving me around the vehicle saying "please stand here while I explain this [unimportant to me!] feature to you, now please stand here..." The poor guy didn't know what to do when I politely stopped him, thanked him for the information, and said I'd be back if we narrowed down the choice to this model. He was literally frozen in mid-spiel, at a loss what to do. :P Another one had obviously been told he should use my name at every possible opportuntity - he must have used it in every single sentence, sometimes multiple times - afterwords, I'd wish I'd kept count
Anyway, I really prefer dealing with experienced sales people - with them they're happy to cut to the chase if you want, give you the info. you need, and then see if there's a deal to be done. All (or most!) of the BS is avoided.
I say give me a '78 Land Cruiser anyday, 'cause I like trucks!
-Moo
These hold their value so well, it's ridiculous. '78 Landcruiser is probably still worth $10k. I'd take one too!
-Moo