We had a fax-scam a couple of months ago. Our parts man got a request for 20 fuel pumps-all for a '97 Cavalier. The guy said we were to split the cost between two credit cards and his courier would pick them up. My parts guy was so happy he was making a $4500 sale he couldn't see the red flags (and they were a-wavin'). After several e-mails requesting information, he made me run the credit card numbers several times (rejected: address not a match, bogus CVV2 codes, I mighta punched in the numbers wrong a few times, too . The goofball finally gave up and did not reply to my parts man's last e-mail.
BTW, are you guys in Chi Town starting to get winter yet?
its already been here, early december temps were 20 degrees below normal. I think from here on out we will be having normal, or below normal, temps. Its supposed to snow tonight.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not to be a jerk, but you can't mean "suffrage." That would mean he's fighting for the Corvettes' right to vote. Maybe "League for the Prevention of Corvette Suffering" would be more appropriate.
That said, I agree. I've never seen such an emotional buyer keep his emotions from causing him to swallow a loss on a dream car.
We don't usually get snow from your way -- it gets wrung out by the Blue Ridge Mountains.
When we get walloped (which hasn't happened since the Blizzard of '96), we get cold air from your neck of the woods combined with a storm that moves up the east coast from the Gulf.
Anyway, it seems unlikely that Vette in Wytheville (not too far from me) will see much snow this winter.
December 20-22 -- 26" of snow December 28-29 -- 16" of snow January 5 -- 8" of snow January 12 -- 8" of snow predicted in Denver (we usually get more here) with high temps of 10 on Friday and 9 on Saturday
I've shoveled, literally, a ton of snow. My left arm is starting to look like Popeye's. Thankfully, I have a hot tub in the backyard I can use when I get too sore.
I really don't want to hear about 70 degree days and wearing short sleeve shirts and roller blading.
You know, I have to admit that I've been thinking about our poor car dealers these last few weeks.
I mean, I only have to shovel out my driveway .. these guys have to shovel out their entire inventory.
I can imagine John and Jane Doe showing up on the lot - assuming that it's even open - and asking to test drive the white one.
"Wait, they're all white!"
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
But, a question to the esteemed sales folks here .. how long does it take to make all your inventory available after a snow storm? One day? Two? More? Or do you do it on an 'as needed' basis, only digging out cars that prospects want to see?
Local dealers cram as many vehicles into the service area and showroom as they can to leave the main lot open for plowing. Then they shift whatever vehicles left outside into that area for plowing. Then shift everything back.
I'm sure the sales people help out. Heck, if there is that much snow they aren't going to be selling anyways.
Where's the scam? I don't get it. From what I read, he wants to give you a bunch of money on a credit card. He would still need to sign all paperwork for purchase of the car before you guys shipped the vehicle to him.
You run the CC immediately and it will tell you if it is valid or not. Their credit will be run before you deliver a vehicle to them. If their credit checks out, you just need to secure the financing. All paperwork would be signed and taken care of before you deliver a vehicle. I'm really not sure how this could be a very effective scam.
To me, it really sounds as if someone wanted to purchase a vehicle and someone with an overactive imagination decided to queer the deal. Unless I'm overlooking something.
Your overlooking the entire scam....Your line of thinking is exactly what they want.
The scam isnt to get the car..but the payment for shipping. They use a credit card that is still valid when we run it. (credit cards that have been copied or numbers stolen). The real credit card owners don't know their numbers are in the hands of crooks.....then we send funds to the shipper (who isnt really a shipper) and they have the shipping money....the credit card comes back a week later as a phoney and the bank charges us back...They only need a couple a week to make a pretty good living.
We get credit card requests for 300 spark plugs to be shipped to algeria once a week also...similar scam
Guy was selling his three year old Mercedes. Buyer comes by for test drive. Loves the car, but says he wants his wife to see it.
They come by the next day...wife says she loves it. Buyer tells seller he will come by Friday with a certified bank check. On Friday, buyer calls and says he had to take his child to the hospital, but if it's alright he will come by Sunday with the certified check.
By this time, the buyer and his "wife" had established rapport with the seller...and, of course, the seller had sympathy for the sick child and said it was fine for Sunday. Buyer comes Sunday...hands seller the certified check....and drives off with the Mercedes.
That's right... the "certified bank check" which the seller couldn't verify with the bank 'cause it was a Sunday... was a fake.
That's not too hard to believe. Someone tried to buy a used car from me with a "certified bank check" and I nearly fell for it. Luckily, something seemed fishy to me and I barely caught it at the last moment. Apparently, it's easy to get official payment methods that are really just fakes.
it seems it's extremely easy to fake a certified and personal checks. heck even cash. doing a private sale requires caution when accepting payment from the buyer.
i'm sure the sales staff at dealerships have similar issues. is the finance guy doing all that verification work, or does the salesperson or someone else have to?
Guy I worked with was selling an Anniversay Trans Am with low, low miles. He wouldn't take anything other than cash, and they had to come during banking hours so the cash could be checked at the local bank.
Audi, sorry I'm being dense, but how would they be able to cash in on shipping? Why would the buyer be paid for shipping? He puts his downpayment on the credit card and then you will include shipping in the total deal.
I'm assuming that you're saying they picked out the shipper...
If that's so, then that seems to me to be a pretty lame scam.
They call the business on the TDD line.. This elicits a sympathetic response. Who doesn't want to help a disabled person?
They order merchandise on a stolen credit card.. They call a shipping company to come pick it up.. Charging a new account number that has payment "guaranteed" by another stolen credit card. They have it shipped air freight, so it arrives in a few days.. By the time the fraud is discovered, it it too late to stop shipment or recover the merchandise.
The credit card company charges back the selling company and the shipping company.. Both lose out..
Sometimes, they have a "helper" in the USA, who receives the packages, then re-ships them overseas (Nigeria is really big for this). That way, the business isn't alerted to an international shipment. Usually, the helper is solicited in a work-from-home scam, or it is a lonely hearts situation.
This happens thousands of times every day.. A big, big problem.
When I worked for UPS we had a lot of problems with this. I didn't deal with it too much directly as I was inside hub operations managment but I had to sit through a few presentations on it. A buddy of mine was the security director for our hub and he had mentioned it a few times as well.
You're not being dense, Moo, you're just not thinking like a crook.
Audi thinks he's been paid (via credit card), so he sends a (good) check to the shipper. A week or so later, the bank bounces the c/card charge back. Meanwhile, the shipper has cashed the check and run. The shipper is the scammer. That, or the scenario is as Kyfdx explained.
You're right, it's a lame scam. As Audi said, though, it only has to work a few times. If it doesn't work, they'll try something else.
My scammer would have gotten away with his trick if I hadn't been a pain in the rear asking for more information.
Ahha.... now it's clear to me. I just wasn't able to put all the pieces together as to how that would profit the scammer easily. Thanks for the explanation.
My wife's lease on her Explorer is up in a few months, so we went out to check out some new cars. After visiting a few dealers and "kicking the tires", she fell in love with a Saturn Outlook.
Side note: Isell, I know you hate it when people shop more than a month in advance. However, after my wife bought a couple dud cars in a row because she didn't shop around enough, I insisted she "play the field" this time. And, we happened to have a rare day off together minus our two children (infant + 2 YO). OK, back to the story.
Now, I hadn't gone inside a Saturn dealer before, but there was something "not right" about the place. Maybe if Ben & Jerry's sold cars, it would be kind of like this place.
1. They used an "up" system, but it was brilliantly done. The salesman who is "up" actually sits at a front desk that is about 8 feet directly across from the front doors. This person poses as a receptionist, welcoming you to Saturn and "is this your first visit" (as opposed to, "hey, you workin with someone already?"). Since we hadn't been there before, the 'receptionist' put on a giant cape that said "WORLD'S FRIENDLIEST SALESMAN" and got up to greet us (kidding, kidding).
2. Unlike any other car dealer I've ever visited, he addressed my wife first, shoving me to the background. I think this secretly delighted her. This probably isn't as odd as I'm thinking, considering I know zero dudes who drive Saturns. Even the men they use in their advertising come across as either gay or card carrying members of the Promise Keepers.
3. While they were discussing the Outlook vs. the Relay, the strangeness of the setting sort of got to me. There was a big sign like the type you'd use in a wedding hall to list which wedding parties were in which room. It said, "Congratulations Mike and Susan on your new Saturn!". I'm not sure who Mike and Susan are, but when they show up to pick up their new Saturn, I have to wonder how mortified they are going to be. If my wife buys an Outlook, I'm going to tell them my name is "Father Guido Sarducci, and as an Italian priest I would like to be addressed by my full title and name".
Oh, and the focal point of the showroom was a gigantic popcorn machine, like the kind you'd see in any movie theater bearing more than 12 screens. The cars were off to the side.
4. The test drive. The salesman was truly helpful, only talking when we asked him a specific question. Towards the end of the drive, he started singing Auld Lange Syne or whatever that NYE song is. At that point, I sort of expected it. If this guy wasn't selling cars, I would have pegged him as an interior decorator.
The Outlook is an amazing car, by the way. If this car (along with its GMC and Buick brothers) doesn't save GM, nothing will. It drove like a luxury car. The Relay was a piece of crap, but I sort of expected that.
After test driving a couple other cars/dealers, it's pretty clear that she's completely infatuated with the Outlook.
Well, where I work, we the sales people, move all the cars, plow and scrap the ice and crap off. Depending on how much snow, it can take 2hrs to 10 hrs. It sucks!
Sounds like a normal Saturn experience. Happy, happy, joy, joy, welcome the the cult err family.
When my brother and his wife bought an SL2 years ago, it was in the showroom ready to go and they drove it out of the building. They still get cards to this day.
"Dealers aren't stupid. If their investment was in danger by being outside guess what, it wouldn't be outside."
You'd think that was true, but you'd be mistaken. I think it was Bolivar (sorry if I got that wrong) that told me that the Honda dealer in Bartlesville (OK) enclosed their entire lot in a substantial indoor building because of a prior hail damage claim. Makes sense to me because we get PLENTY of hail storms here in okieland. Strangely though, not one other Honda or other dealer--even luxury brands-- in the greater Tulsa area has followed suit. Maybe they all stash the best stuff in the service bays! If they were really smart they would locate their stock underground to avoid those terrible twisters...nah, easier to collect the insurance settlement.
I applaud the guy who messed with the scammer. Good for him.
I received a fax at our dealership similar to that a few years ago where some body was looking for used Civics for his client somewhere in Africa. We never bothered responding anyways.
...the Honda dealer in Bartlesville (OK) enclosed their entire lot in a substantial indoor building because of a prior hail damage claim.
I guess it all comes to a cost justification analysis.
The only dealer around Boston that I know of that has it's inventory indoors is one of the Herb Chambers Mercedes dealerships close to Boston. It's basically a parking garage and it has a helipad on top for his commuter vehicle and a spot for his MacLaren. Not bad for a former copier salesperson from Hartford.
Most dealers do just that. If they get word of a bad storm coming the valuable stuff goes into the shop. To spend millions on a parking garage because of one hail claim is silly.
Yeah with the small amount of inventory we have I think we could get our entire new car inventory under cover by using the shop, showroom and detail bays.
We have a large covered drive through that could handle at least three cars as well.
Comments
I agree but the poster said he ain't gonna do that.
Now what?
Oh yeah, continue to drive by, in anguish, watching it suffer while being snow bound.
Me thinks he really doesn't care as much as he says he does. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It was 70 degrees on SAT.
We had a fax-scam a couple of months ago. Our parts man got a request for 20 fuel pumps-all for a '97 Cavalier. The guy said we were to split the cost between two credit cards and his courier would pick them up. My parts guy was so happy he was making a $4500 sale he couldn't see the red flags (and they were a-wavin'). After several e-mails requesting information, he made me run the credit card numbers several times (rejected: address not a match, bogus CVV2 codes, I mighta punched in the numbers wrong a few times, too
GG
Just wait, Its going to be here soon, that means its will be your way soon enough.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thanks 'snake', I didn't have the heart to tell him.
BTW, are you guys in Chi Town starting to get winter yet?
It's been like April here in the Burgh, can't last too long.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
its already been here, early december temps were 20 degrees below normal. I think from here on out we will be having normal, or below normal, temps. Its supposed to snow tonight.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That said, I agree. I've never seen such an emotional buyer keep his emotions from causing him to swallow a loss on a dream car.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Corvettes
It was over 70 degrees on Saturday and that caused a rather unique problem that I won't get into now because it is still ongoing.
When we get walloped (which hasn't happened since the Blizzard of '96), we get cold air from your neck of the woods combined with a storm that moves up the east coast from the Gulf.
Anyway, it seems unlikely that Vette in Wytheville (not too far from me) will see much snow this winter.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I put my winter tires on the first of December. I don't know why, I just did. Haven't needed them at all here in central PA either.
Maybe I'll take my snow-blower for a walk tomorrow. :P
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Indeed I can and did.
tidester, host
:mad:
To recap:
December 20-22 -- 26" of snow
December 28-29 -- 16" of snow
January 5 -- 8" of snow
January 12 -- 8" of snow predicted in Denver (we usually get more here) with high temps of 10 on Friday and 9 on Saturday
I've shoveled, literally, a ton of snow. My left arm is starting to look like Popeye's. Thankfully, I have a hot tub in the backyard I can use when I get too sore.
I really don't want to hear about 70 degree days and wearing short sleeve shirts and roller blading.
:sick:
Now back to sales talk.
I mean, I only have to shovel out my driveway .. these guys have to shovel out their entire inventory.
I can imagine John and Jane Doe showing up on the lot - assuming that it's even open - and asking to test drive the white one.
"Wait, they're all white!"
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
But, a question to the esteemed sales folks here .. how long does it take to make all your inventory available after a snow storm? One day? Two? More? Or do you do it on an 'as needed' basis, only digging out cars that prospects want to see?
This winter the sales guy chipped in, but with ourlot of 120 plus cars we managed to uncover most of them from snow in one full day.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'm sure the sales people help out. Heck, if there is that much snow they aren't going to be selling anyways.
-Moo
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
To me, it really sounds as if someone wanted to purchase a vehicle and someone with an overactive imagination decided to queer the deal. Unless I'm overlooking something.
-Moo
The scam isnt to get the car..but the payment for shipping. They use a credit card that is still valid when we run it. (credit cards that have been copied or numbers stolen). The real credit card owners don't know their numbers are in the hands of crooks.....then we send funds to the shipper (who isnt really a shipper) and they have the shipping money....the credit card comes back a week later as a phoney and the bank charges us back...They only need a couple a week to make a pretty good living.
We get credit card requests for 300 spark plugs to be shipped to algeria once a week also...similar scam
Guy was selling his three year old Mercedes. Buyer comes by for test drive. Loves the car, but says he wants his wife to see it.
They come by the next day...wife says she loves it. Buyer tells seller he will come by Friday with a certified bank check. On Friday, buyer calls and says he had to take his child to the hospital, but if it's alright he will come by Sunday with the certified check.
By this time, the buyer and his "wife" had established rapport with the seller...and, of course, the seller had sympathy for the sick child and said it was fine for Sunday. Buyer comes Sunday...hands seller the certified check....and drives off with the Mercedes.
That's right... the "certified bank check" which the seller couldn't verify with the bank 'cause it was a Sunday... was a fake.
i'm sure the sales staff at dealerships have similar issues. is the finance guy doing all that verification work, or does the salesperson or someone else have to?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Lets see S N O W yep, you’re right it is a four letter word and that’s the way the rest of us spell it.
You guys in Louisiana are pretty sharp, you at least know not to live in SNOW country.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm assuming that you're saying they picked out the shipper...
If that's so, then that seems to me to be a pretty lame scam.
-Moo
They call the business on the TDD line.. This elicits a sympathetic response. Who doesn't want to help a disabled person?
They order merchandise on a stolen credit card.. They call a shipping company to come pick it up.. Charging a new account number that has payment "guaranteed" by another stolen credit card. They have it shipped air freight, so it arrives in a few days.. By the time the fraud is discovered, it it too late to stop shipment or recover the merchandise.
The credit card company charges back the selling company and the shipping company.. Both lose out..
Sometimes, they have a "helper" in the USA, who receives the packages, then re-ships them overseas (Nigeria is really big for this). That way, the business isn't alerted to an international shipment. Usually, the helper is solicited in a work-from-home scam, or it is a lonely hearts situation.
This happens thousands of times every day.. A big, big problem.
regards,
kyfdx
not the host here
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Audi thinks he's been paid (via credit card), so he sends a (good) check to the shipper. A week or so later, the bank bounces the c/card charge back. Meanwhile, the shipper has cashed the check and run. The shipper is the scammer.
That, or the scenario is as Kyfdx explained.
You're right, it's a lame scam. As Audi said, though, it only has to work a few times. If it doesn't work, they'll try something else.
My scammer would have gotten away with his trick if I hadn't been a pain in the rear asking for more information.
-Moo
Side note: Isell, I know you hate it when people shop more than a month in advance. However, after my wife bought a couple dud cars in a row because she didn't shop around enough, I insisted she "play the field" this time. And, we happened to have a rare day off together minus our two children (infant + 2 YO). OK, back to the story.
Now, I hadn't gone inside a Saturn dealer before, but there was something "not right" about the place. Maybe if Ben & Jerry's sold cars, it would be kind of like this place.
1. They used an "up" system, but it was brilliantly done. The salesman who is "up" actually sits at a front desk that is about 8 feet directly across from the front doors. This person poses as a receptionist, welcoming you to Saturn and "is this your first visit" (as opposed to, "hey, you workin with someone already?"). Since we hadn't been there before, the 'receptionist' put on a giant cape that said "WORLD'S FRIENDLIEST SALESMAN" and got up to greet us (kidding, kidding).
2. Unlike any other car dealer I've ever visited, he addressed my wife first, shoving me to the background. I think this secretly delighted her. This probably isn't as odd as I'm thinking, considering I know zero dudes who drive Saturns. Even the men they use in their advertising come across as either gay or card carrying members of the Promise Keepers.
3. While they were discussing the Outlook vs. the Relay, the strangeness of the setting sort of got to me. There was a big sign like the type you'd use in a wedding hall to list which wedding parties were in which room. It said, "Congratulations Mike and Susan on your new Saturn!". I'm not sure who Mike and Susan are, but when they show up to pick up their new Saturn, I have to wonder how mortified they are going to be. If my wife buys an Outlook, I'm going to tell them my name is "Father Guido Sarducci, and as an Italian priest I would like to be addressed by my full title and name".
Oh, and the focal point of the showroom was a gigantic popcorn machine, like the kind you'd see in any movie theater bearing more than 12 screens. The cars were off to the side.
4. The test drive. The salesman was truly helpful, only talking when we asked him a specific question. Towards the end of the drive, he started singing Auld Lange Syne or whatever that NYE song is. At that point, I sort of expected it. If this guy wasn't selling cars, I would have pegged him as an interior decorator.
The Outlook is an amazing car, by the way. If this car (along with its GMC and Buick brothers) doesn't save GM, nothing will. It drove like a luxury car. The Relay was a piece of crap, but I sort of expected that.
After test driving a couple other cars/dealers, it's pretty clear that she's completely infatuated with the Outlook.
I can't WAIT to see what happens at delivery.
check scam
When my brother and his wife bought an SL2 years ago, it was in the showroom ready to go and they drove it out of the building. They still get cards to this day.
You'd think that was true, but you'd be mistaken. I think it was Bolivar (sorry if I got that wrong) that told me that the Honda dealer in Bartlesville (OK) enclosed their entire lot in a substantial indoor building because of a prior hail damage claim. Makes sense to me because we get PLENTY of hail storms here in okieland. Strangely though, not one other Honda or other dealer--even luxury brands-- in the greater Tulsa area has followed suit. Maybe they all stash the best stuff in the service bays! If they were really smart they would locate their stock underground to avoid those terrible twisters...nah, easier to collect the insurance settlement.
Gogiboy
You're my kinda guy, for whatever that's worth.
This is only one of the reasons I've never considered Saturn & have directed some in my family away from the brand/marque.
Thanks again!
I applaud the guy who messed with the scammer. Good for him.
I received a fax at our dealership similar to that a few years ago where some body was looking for used Civics for his client somewhere in Africa. We never bothered responding anyways.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I guess it all comes to a cost justification analysis.
The only dealer around Boston that I know of that has it's inventory indoors is one of the Herb Chambers Mercedes dealerships close to Boston. It's basically a parking garage and it has a helipad on top for his commuter vehicle and a spot for his MacLaren. Not bad for a former copier salesperson from Hartford.
If they get word of a bad storm coming the valuable stuff goes into the shop.
To spend millions on a parking garage because of one hail claim is silly.
We have a large covered drive through that could handle at least three cars as well.
You missed a perfectly good opportunity to say "porte cochere." :P