Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

michaelll - Your ride is just fine. I see them on the road and could really live in one, but it does give up a lot of usable room to achieve that. You'll never use that extra room do no problem. If I went that route I might have to do a CRV for the space.

That said, I am still hunting on a Solara convertible and while it is roomy for a convertible it won't hold anything near what your Mazda will.

I have to get a hold of Bill and just for the heck of it take a trip up there as long as he isn't insanely busy.... The right deal could work. More likely I'll wait until after the transplant but I could be persuaded.....

jmonroe

I bet it would match the color of her new dining room

That I could have handled. We’re into bathroom redos this month, much worse.

jmonroe

explorerx4

I drove a 550i GT a couple of weekends ago.
The color makes a big difference in how it looks.
It was Dark Gray with sport package wheels and
was #2 on the for being noticed in. #1 was the X6.

explorerx4

My '11 Explorer is much larger dimensionally than the '02.
Supposedly, the interior volume is about the same.
To hold the following items, I had to fold down the 2nd row center seat in the '02: 6 foot folding table, collapsed 101 canopy, a cooler, and 2 folding chairs.
I did not have to fold down any part of the second row in the '11 to carry the same items.

fezo

Wow. That's pretty impressive. One of my pet peeves with the old Explorers is that they seemed smaller on the inside than on the outside. That seems to haev been fixed.

I'm still debating on the van...

driver100

I'm still debating on the van...

You mean, which one is going to get left to you first?

driver100

It was Dark Gray with sport package wheels and
was #2 on the for being noticed in. #1 was the X6

Maybe color would make a difference. I just don't see the point to it....they have taken a nice looking car and put a big back end on it to hold more stuff. For me, a 5 Series car looks better, and if I want a vehicle that can hold alot I would get an X3 or X5. Why get a nice car that looks like it was injected with steroids?

Disclaimer: Those comments are solely the comments of this particular poster. It is not the opinion of Edmunds or other posters who take part in the discussions. It is not based on any facts, or surveys or professional reviewer, only the express opinions of Driver101.

explorerx4

A 'mini' van has much more interior room than any Explorer.
My '02 is shorter than any Accord that has been sold in many years.
I was just pointing out that the shape of the available space can make a difference.

explorerx4

Driver, I agree pretty much agree with you.
I was prepared to dislike the 5 GT, I just liked it better than I thought I would.
Since I am not planning to buy a BMW, I asked to drive one that was not likely to be requested by someone who could be a real prospective customer.
BTW, one of my BIL's just bought a pre owned 5 and picked it up on Saturday.

oldfarmer50

"...I am still hunting on a Solara convertible..."

What happened to the Mazda3 hatchback? You mean I have to start looking for you all over again? :sick:

You could get a Sebring like richard64's for half the price.

driver100

BTW, one of my BIL's just bought a pre owned 5 and picked it up on Saturday.

You reminded me mine is coming later in November. Now, I am getting excited. We just finalized the home in Florida. Now, I am looking forward to the big drive, about 1800 miles, we will do the first nice day after Christmas.
The 535 should make a great car for the big trip.

We are going to Florida in November to close the deal and get the key etc. We are flying from a new airport in Niagara Falls NY to Lakeland Florida on Direct Air. $360 for 2 return. Going out of Toronto would have cost $1200!

nyccarguy

A furniture sales story. I figured I'd post because I tried to use graphicguy's negotiating method to buy something that Richard digs.

I've been telling my wife since we got married (10/23/2004) that she cannot have a china cabinet. We just don't have the funds. So she's always got her eye out. She found a gorgeous Ethan Allen China Cabinet on Craig's List.

The people were regretfully selling it because they moved into a new home that had lots of "built-ins.". Asking price was $1800.

I said to her: "You want it? Offer $1000. No more."

She emailed the seller asking different questions about the China Cabinet. She offers $1000.

My wife calls me the next day at work & tells me they countered with $1600. She says she'll come up to $1200.

Me: "What? I told you not a dollar more than $1000. Not a penny more than the $1200. I'm serious."

The woman emails her back and gives her the old "Let's split the difference & make it $1400, ok?"

I jump on her laptop & start writing: Dear Colleen, I appreciate your time. Your China Cabinet is beautiful, but I cannot spend more than $1200. Please let me know if you change your mind. Good luck with your sale...

She replied a day later saying that her & her husband didn't want to end this over $200. AKA, they didn't have another buyer.

So for $1200 I got a gorgeous China Cabinet that probably retailed for around $3K.

venture

we will do the first nice day after Christmas.

So that would be sometime in April? :shades:

venture

Took the new Regal on a short road trip of about 400 miles early last week. I had to go to Erie, PA from here in central PA.

The Buick handled it flawlessly. I am now used to the car after struggling with it for a few weeks although I still get in and leave the key in my pocket sometimes. :mad: It averaged 30 mpg driving at around 70 mph. I didn't have to stop for gas at all. As a matter of fact it still had about a quarter of a tank when I got home.

One semi-interesting observation. Since I decided to slow down ala Richard, I passed a few cars & trucks, and many passed me while heading north on I-79; mostly in clumps. Most of the cars that passed me had Ontario plates and most of them were white.

On the way home I passed one car with Ontario plates. It was white. :confuse:

[Deleted User]

Great discussion on wagons and minivans. Personally I'm a fan of the Jetta Sportwagen (Golf Estate to you Canucks) with manual transmission and TDI motor, but VW is struggling with durability of the new common rail TDI and I won't take the risk until they find a fix. Great car otherwise. How can you complain about a fun-to-drive vehicle with 33 cu/ft cargo (67 with seats down), 42 mpg highway, and a $26,000 price tag? Add AWD and it would kill most SUVs in practicality and driving dynamics. Need something larger? Then minivans are untouched in volume versus price tag and mpg, plus better handling. I think it's mostly the image that's killing the two categories in the US. The "mommy-mobile" stigma. Personally I find the new CUVs the more common mommy-mobile now and when I see a wagon I think to myself it's a mighty wise person behind the wheel. I'd love to see more practical wagon options here, especially after spending a little time in Europe experiencing how great some of the vehicles are that we're not allowed to purchase.

bolivar

Did that come with a clean Carfax?

driver100

Most of the cars that passed me had Ontario plates and most of them were white.

That wasn't me speeding. All the charges were dropped, I deny the whole thing.

On Sunday we were on the 401 which is our main highway to get to Windsor and across the border to the USA. I was surprised to see so many motor homes and trailers heading to the border and on to Florida. I guess a lot of people start to leave in mid October...not much point in being here after that.

I have made a point of not speeding, trying to stop at all amber lights when possible, not getting upset at rude drivers. I find it is more enjoyable and stress free, if you just enjoy the ride.

Good news you are enjoying your car so much

driver100

but I cannot spend more than $1200. Please let me know if you change your mind. Good luck with your sale...

I love that sentence...it is polite, puts a limit on the price, and leaves the door open. And, most important, doesn't make the seller feel cornered.

It is brilliant!

Of course, you have to wonder if you could have got it for $1000. But, it seems like a fair price all around and if you held out you might have lost it.

Good sales story.

driver100

So that would be sometime in April?

I think you actually get more snow than we do. Once I was in Pennsylvania in December and I was stuck in about 2 feet of snow. Some nice people helped me out. When they saw my Ontario license plate they said, ah, you must be used to this coming from Canada. I said, I never saw so much freakin snow in all my life!

driver100

I'd love to see more practical wagon options here, especially after spending a little time in Europe experiencing how great some of the vehicles are that we're not allowed to purchase.

Your comments are right on....wagons are much more practical than SUVs. When you are paying around $10 a gallon for gas, you tend to be more practical.

I like SUVs, but I prefer the driving dynamics of a car, and so I would prefer a wagon over a car these days. I know some people need SUVs....I carried around books in the early days and nothing is heavier than books, except vinyl records) and only an SUV could carry that weight. But most people could get by with a wagon.

I think that Jetta TDI sounds like a great car for $28k.

jmonroe

A 'mini' van has much more interior room than any Explorer.
My '02 is shorter than any Accord that has been sold in many years.
I was just pointing out that the shape of the available space can make a difference.

You just pointed out typical marketing lingo when they talk about "volume". However, in your case it was to your benefit in how your ’11 Explorer is shaped even though your ’02 had the same volume.

It’s usable volume for what you’re hauling that counts. A cubic foot can be configured many ways. It could be 1 inch high by 1 foot wide by 12 feet long but who could put that to good use anywhere unless your cargo is snakes? An example we have all faced is when we get a new refrigerator, we can’t stuff it the same way. I’d like to get my hands on the guy that designed these 3 door French style refrigerators. When we did the kitchen redo in January 2010, Mrs. jmonroe wanted one of those thingies and since it’s her kitchen she called the shots. The thing that gets me is while it is a 27 cubic footer compared to our old 21 cubic foot job it doesn’t seem to have any more fridge space than the old one. I guess the freezer is bigger and it’s harder to use but that ain’t my real gripe. It’s the doors on the fridge section. For my whole life until now all I had to do was open 1 door and I saw everything. Now I have to open 2 doors to find things. :mad: Although it is good arm exercise.

You’re right about minivans too. When Son #2 saw how much better his older brothers minivan could handle almost anything, including people, he said when it’s was time to get rid of his ’02 Explorer it was going to be replaced with a minivan. That’s why he bought an ’09 Sedona that he went to Cincy to get. I told that tale this past Spring. Son # 2 now says, “I don’t know how I put up with that SUV as long as I did”. Even his wife likes it so much more. The down side will be this coming winter when they don’t have a 4 wheel drive vehicle but now that I think about it I think he still has the Explorer. I’ll have to check on that.

jmonroe

dino001

The SUV sales phenomenon is to me another sign of "people don't know what's good". Minivans are superior family vehicles in every single category that has to do with family. What they lose is looks, image, and sitting position, and even those are case-by-case. From things that are important (economically) they lose to small SUVs on gas mileage and bit of handling, (but offer almost double space in return. It is quite simply most efficient vehicle for family that is 2+3 or larger and top-tier choice for even those smaller families (e.g. with infants). Yet, every time you mention a minivan to people below 40, they burst to tears. They image hit seems to them so unbearable that they'd rather buy something with less mileage, capacity, worse handling, just to stay on the "cool" side. I just witnessed that in last months. Couple with three kids and infant. You'd think Odyssey or Grand Caravan would be obvious choices. They even made couple of circles around it. But no - it had to be Escalade. From what I understand it was actually wife's choice. The price was quite good, from what I heard, but man, really? BTW, they're broke, but that's a different conversation altogether. Go figure ... :confuse: :sick:

venture

I have made a point of not speeding, trying to stop at all amber lights when possible, not getting upset at rude drivers.

Me too. The rude driver thingy - my Dad always said to never argue with an idiot. He was right. Someone (I don't remember who) said, "They don't want to be changed anyway". Truer words were never spoken.

nyccarguy

With a 5 year old son, 2.5 year old son, & daughter to be on the way somewhere around December 4th, we bought a 2011 Honda Pilot in May. I'll be the first to admit that there is NO WAY I was going to even THINK of looking at the Oddysey. Comfortable, very well laid out interior, the Touring Model has the 6 speed automatic rated at like 27 mpg highway. Talk to anybody who owns a Minvan and they absolutely LOVE IT!

There is one option the Oddysey doesn't offer - 4WD.

We had a very rough winter last year in Southwestern Connecticut (our 1st New England winter). They don't salt the roads near where I live due to the fact that many have well water. They don't plow anywhere nearly as well as they do in NY (where we lived all our lives).

jmonroe

But no - it had to be Escalade. From what I understand it was actually wife's choice. The price was quite good, from what I heard, but man, really? BTW, they're broke, but that's a different conversation altogether. Go figure ...

I’ll get into that conversation. I don’t have to “figure” much of anything. You said “Escalade”. Not many people can actually afford those but I see tons of them on the road. I’m sure the majority are leased but still not many can even afford that. If you want a “hey look at me” vehicle that would be a good way to say it. For me, this answers the question of why people are so far in debt today that they have almost no hope of getting out of it.

Years ago a guy that worked for me ask me for some financial advice when he was about to buy a brand new Oldsmobile that I knew, and he did too, that he couldn’t afford. I said, “buy something used and save up some money so your payments won’t be so high. Then in a couple years you’ll be able to buy a new car”. I then said, “believe it or not, there is such a thing as life without car payments”. His reply was, “yeah but who wants to drive around in a 3 year old car”. At the time I had a 5 year old car that I bought used when it was 3 years old but it was paid for. You guessed it, he bought the new Oldsmobile. That guy is still in debt today and this tale was from back in the mid 80s.

It seem like some people would rather go down swinging than taking a pitch or two. :sick:

jmonroe

dino001

I live in Tampa Bay. No snow of any kind. Big rains in summer, so once-twice a year big raised suspension on SUV pays itself off, when you can plow through a few ponds instead of awful and life-ruining inconvenience of driving around it. BWT, minivans are still a bit higher than cars, so the threshold of that terrible inconvenience is higher.

Don't get me wrong - people can want want they want, I've got no problem with choices had and choices made. It doesn't even really bother me that people make "wrong' (in my opinion, anyway) choices. Their business, their money (or their bank's). I'm just baffled that otherwise intelligent and skillful people make such choices, or in other words, somebody can be thorough and very particular in their profession, but then they go out have have no clue how to evaluate other aspects of their life, from finances, to vehicle choices.

BTW, the Escalade was used, so was the Odyssey they were first talking about (so they were at least reasonable at the starting point). It really was all about looks and image for them - I cannot see any other explanation.

[Deleted User]

I'm afraid I was part of the problem for awhile. I judged minivans harshly and unfairly until the birth of my daughter, adding to our family of two aging golden retrievers. We hunted for an SUV to fill our needs, but kept coming to the conclusion we needed space, practicality, and the ability for our pups to easily step up into the vehicle. The minivan won and I swallowed a bitter pill. Our AWD Grand Caravan has served our needs marvelously and I don't regret the purchase. The thing is so dang practical I hate to part with it, and it looks we've decided to keep it even longer than expected.

[Deleted User]

The Golf TDI handles a tad better than the Jetta Sportwagen TDI due to a sportier suspension, but choosing the Jetta with its standard suspension is a small sacrifice for more than doubling cargo volume. We were pretty set on the wagon until a little Google homework turned up some teething issues on the new CR TDI motor. If you're interested, look up high pressure fuel pump (HPFP) failures, iced up intercoolers, and blown turbos. Not pretty. The examples I drove in Europe were exemplary, but apparently our weather and abysmal diesel lubricity quality are creating some problems. Hopefully they get it worked out soon and make the platform truly great. The Chevy Cruze Eco is also a great drive for the MPG-conscious driver, and I hear they'll be releasing their world diesel motor in the US next year. Very tempting.

stickguy

minivans (not so mini though!) are the most practical. We have been doing the MV thing since '95 when my 2nd kid was born.

at this point, my wife is tired of piloting one, and we really can live without such a big box. I don't have an issue with a van per se to replace it, but I really want something smaller.

A Mazda 5 is actually a nice package. Really ugly though, and the wife I think doesn't want sliding doors (practical, but still too minivanish!). So, a comparable sized "CUV" is most likely. I like the looks of the C-maxx, which appears to be about a mazda 5 with normal opening rear doors.

houdini1

I bought my 2006 Lexus LS used in 2008. Paid cash. The darn thing now has about 65,000 miles on it and still drives great, never had a problem.

I occasionally get the bug and look at something else, etc. but haven't found anything that I like any better. If I had to buy something it would be a new v6 Genny.

mako1a

houdini, I think you, jmonroe, driver, fezo and myself are all that's left of the old guys. These guys talking about minivans and kids seats are the young people that have taken over here.

It had to happen sooner or later as they tired of our tried and true methods. This new overschooled, underemployed enviroment has changed car buying.

Good! Now maybe I can get a good deal on a nice luxury car with 350 HP and no room for kids. Automatic Transmission too, since the younger generation seems to want to go back to shifting gears, manual steering and mechanical brakes.

jmonroe

If I had to buy something it would be a new v6 Genny.

If you're serious let me say to you what Son #1 said to me when I said if I buy one I'll probably get the V6. He said and I can still hear him saying it today, "don't go half way get the V8 that's the one that's getting all the good reviews". For the price difference I went with the V8 and I'm not sorry one bit.

When I visited my brother and SIL in Florida a few weeks ago, I drove her '11 V6 with tech package several times just to see how it drove. I will admit that in the flat lands of Florida you don't need an 8 but I could tell a world of difference in the power. I'm spoiled now and if I were to buy another one it would be the 429 HP R-Spec model. Maybe 'imbrentwood' would let me steal one from his dealership in Joysey. :shades:

jmonroe

explorerx4

AWD minivans get 14/15 mpg. Same as an SUV, but don't have the ground clearance.

fezo

Way back when we bought our first minivan (the highly regrettable Windstall) they hadn't yet developed the mommymobile status but we did check out an Explorer at the same time. We were stunned at how little room it had compared to the Windstall, that it had abysmal gas mileage numbers and made no attempt to drive like anything but a truck.

Things have changed on that front but minivans still win hands down unless you need the 4WD - and even then such things exist.

After the Windstall I got that 00 Accord which did everything we needed for two kids. When we went to 4 kids we ended up back in the minivan - we're on Ody #2) but will soon go back to regular cars. I still way prefer the way cars handle.

oldfarmer50

"...We are going to Florida in November..."

Funny, so am I. If you see some scruffy fellow eyeing your BMW don't call the police.

oldfarmer50

"...I live in Tampa Bay..."

Beautiful area. We vacation in Largo. I have a few old co-workers that have settled in Hudson or Spring Hill.

Can you reccomend a few nice areas across the bay? I'm seriously thinking of moving to the area when one of my rich Edmunds buddies buys my place in NY.

oldfarmer50

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/2656746993.html

Should I call a dermatologist or an exterminator? :confuse:

[Deleted User]

There's only one AWD minivan left on the market, the Sienna, which is rated 17/23. I rented one several years ago and cruised on the highway with an average of just under 30 mpg (made me envious). Our Grand Caravan AWD, one of the last GCs produced, realistically averages around 16/17 in town and low to mid twenties on the highway.

Now don't get me wrong, if you're towing or need the ground clearance, then a traditional SUV make total sense. Any guesses on how many SUV buyers go off road or use the ground clearance? I don't know, but I'm guessing it's pretty low. Our van has had enough clearance for Utah winters, launching Waverunners, and navigating rutted dirt roads. And there aren't many traditional SUVs left.

The CUVs have certainly taken the market by storm. Some have pretty low clearance (CX-9), some very decent (Pilot). There's a lot of variety in that category. From our shopping experience in the midsize class their gas mileage has resembled an AWD minivan.

verdugo

That I could have handled. We’re into bathroom redos this month, much worse.

Ouch. Good luck and hope the hit is not too big.

fezo

CUVs are certainly proof that folks will go to any length to not call something a wagon....

explorerx4

In my world, the 'traditional SUV' was superior to just about anything else in winter driving.
Of course there were drivers who thought an SUV was invincible and suffered for it.
AWD systems have become pretty sophisticated, so I was willing to put my money down on the '11 Explorer.
I still have the '02 if I feel I need it.

[Deleted User]

Well, maybe not quite that far. Do I want a manual tranny? Yes. Diesel motor? Absolutely. Manual steering and mechanical brakes? No, I'll be happy to keep power assist, but I would like to reverse the drive-by-wire trend (lag time and disconnected feeling).

Unlike my own preference for a more utilitarian option, I think the younger generation is seeking deeper and broader application of technology in vehicles. Internet connectivity, more electronic driving nannies, integrated GPS in even basic models, etc...

It's a good thing there are so many manufacturers out there. We all want something different.

[Deleted User]

I hear ya'. Typically during the first few winter storms around here our freeway shoulders and medians are littered with CUV/SUV drivers who over estimate the capabilities of their vehicles. I drive my AWD like it's FWD. The AWD just makes for an added bonus to help me in unpredictable situations. Just because AWD/4WD gets you going faster doesn't mean it helps you brake any better

tjc78

No, I'll be happy to keep power assist, but I would like to reverse the drive-by-wire trend (lag time and disconnected feeling).

Drive by wire isn't going anywhere. They need it for the stability control systems and to maximize fuel economy.

I've had three different cars with it and never felt any lag.

robr2

We had a very rough winter last year in Southwestern Connecticut (our 1st New England winter).

You live in Fairfield - that's not New England!

:P

[Deleted User]

I'd like to get your input on a recent event that took place in Utah. A 17-year-old pulled out from her high school parking lot and was broadsided by a truck, killing her. The truck had an aftermarket lift kit and oversized tires, raising the frame substantially from the manufacture's specs and enough to clear the side-impact beams on the 17-year-old's coupe door. The truck caught the top part of the door, so really, only the coupe's door glass and roof provided any protection.

Around here lifted trucks with oversize tires are quite common, and mostly a fashion statement. Even with my Journey CUV their frames would likely be higher than any of the built-in safety features like impact beams and crush zones.

If a modified truck causes more trauma to a vehicle's occupants in an accident due to the modifications, is the truck owner responsible? What if the driver of the truck didn't cause the accident? Or is vehicle modification a protected right, and subsequent implications are just part of life?

explorerx4

I've been through snow storms where I have literally driven around hundreds of cars/vans. 4WD/AWD just takes a lot of the drama out of getting for where you start out to where to you want to get to.

houdini1

Those huge tires and lifting are fine for off roading, rock climbing, driving across rivers, etc. But IMO you should not be able to drive a vehicle like that on public roads. Just too dangerous to other people.

explorerx4

Someone pulls into the travel lane without regard to the vehicles with the right of way and unfortunately dies.
The fault lies with the crossing/merging driver.
Here in CT, there are numerous 18 wheelers on the roads.
They dwarf any jacked up pickup truck/SUV.

snakeweasel

87,000 moles? Well thats one thing you can say for Hyundais, they are roomy.

My mom liked birds and had bird feeders in her yard. To keep the squrilles away from the feeders she put out corn for them. She kept the corn in her truck. One day she found a whole bunch of corn kernals hidden under a floor mat. We discoverd a vole living in her car harvisting the corn.