Stories from the Sales Frontlines

robr2

But do you ventilate?

If you are a man of a certain age, you most definitely do!

jmonroe

I was looking over the invoice for my 535Xi and noticed it had ventilated seats.

I gather you don’t have cooling seats in your 3 Series which I thought you would have had. This might explain why I have seen a few car rags comparing the Genny to more upscale cars like your soon to be 5 Series and the MB E Class. I personally think that is a real stretch but it must make some owners feel good about making their purchase. The thing Hyundai can’t escape with the Genny is that H on the trunk that comes as standard equipment.

As I have mentioned before, I visited my brother recently who lives in Delray Beach Florida and his wife now has her second Genny. She had an ’09 but was given a screamer lease deal to turn it in for the ’11 that she now has. One of the conditions of sale for the ’11 was that she wanted the “Wing” emblems put on the trunk and hood just like she had with her ’09. The salesman said that wasn’t a problem and he didn’t know why they weren’t already on the car because that is standard for how they go out the door at their dealership. He assumed it was because it just came off the truck and all they had time to do was the pre-inspection to sell it that night but told her to bring it in first thing in the morning and they would be put on. I saw quite a few Genny’s in all the parking lots down there and I didn’t see one of them that had the standard Hyundai H on the trunk. Since her dealer couldn’t have sold all of them that seems to be the way they are sold down there.

When my SIL got her ’09, the first time they drove to the club, a couple people asked, “is that a Bentley you have now”? :confuse: They were the first in their community to get a Genny. Now there are about 6 of them and of course they all have the Wings. Perception is everything.

jmonroe

tjc78

I declined having the wings put on mine. I wasn't trying to pretend that car was something that it wasn't. On the Genesis specific boards there was a quite a debate about the wings. Some owners went as far as ordering the airbag cover, the key fob, and the "BH380" emblems to totally mimic how the car looks in Korea. We don't live in Korea and in the US the Genesis is a Hyundai.

verdugo

Now, I it seems pretty silly to sit and crank down a window. Once you get used to something, it is hard to go back.

I bet everybody here in this forum understands the motion to rolldown a window. You know, you pull alongside a car and you do the window rolldown motion with your hand so they roll down the window and you can ask a question. Kids now won't get that motion.

gogiboy

Driver--

I highly recommend Devil in the White City. It's part architectural and Chicago history and part murder and mayhem in the form of antagonist, H.H. Holmes (Mudgett). Lots of great info about the Chicago Exposition, architect Burnham (a titan of 19th century US architecture) and Olmstead (designer of Central Park).

Mudgett is the US equivalent to Jack The Ripper yet virtually no one has heard of him (he's certainly every bit as awful as John Wayne Gacy and likely killed a lot more people). He attended U of MI medical school in the 1880s before embarking on his heinous crime spree. My father told me he found Mudgett's picture in one of the class photos that hang in the U of M hospital. It seems U of M medical school attracts some real oddballs as there was a fellow in the class just before my father's named Jack Kevorkian.

I'm surprised that the book hasn't been made into a movie since it has all the ingredients for a typical Hollywood potboiler.

Gogiboy

jmonroe

You know, you pull alongside a car and you do the window rolldown motion with your hand so they roll down the window and you can ask a question. Kids now won't get that motion.

Another bit of the old times that the kids today don’t appreciate is having to send your film to the drug store to have it made into pictures. And in the really old days, like I remember, having to wait about a week to get them. I have to laugh today when a picture is taken by a digital camera or cell phone and my grandsons quickly come out of their pose, rush to the device and say, “let me see it…let me see it…blow it up”.

Car thing: My first new car was a 1966 Bonneville 2 door hardtop (a real boat), MSRP $4007 and that included $120 for the power windows option which at the time I didn’t want because they were pretty unreliable back then. I solved that problem by trading it in for a ’68 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Custom, 2 door hardtop with a 455 CID engine and black vinyl top. IIRC that car had an MSRP of a little over $4500 and it didn’t have power windows. That was the last time I traded a car that was only 2 years old.

jmonroe

kyfdx

My mother bought a new '67 Bonneville 2-door hardtop... That thing was like a spaceship in '67.. You never see them, now...

I think hers was right around $4400...

jmonroe

That thing was like a spaceship in '67..

You're right about it being huge. I'd hate to be buyig gas for that thing today. I didn't even like it then.

You never see them, now...

Here is one just like the '66 that I had. Dark metalic Blue. Mine had a light Blue cloth interior. I have to admit it did look good but man...what a pain to give that beauty a wax job.



jmonroe

driver100

It's my understanding there is a 'pizo-electric' device that generates cooling, with a fan.

Thanks for getting back...from what I can figure out their is a fan that helps the air circulate.

One time I went through a car wash in my 1981 Olds Cutlass, and I was doing my paper work, but didn't notice the power window was down. Water came shooting in and the window wouldn't go up until I turned the ignition on. By the time I got the window up I was soaked...I was wearing a jacket and tie.

My next customer was about an hour away, and I had to drive leaning forward so my back would dry off, the air conditioner on full blast.

I think ventilated seats would have been a big help.

driver100

I highly recommend Devil in the White City. I'm surprised that the book hasn't been made into a movie since it has all the ingredients for a typical Hollywood potboiler.

This is the first book I have read on a Kindle...not bad, I still like a book better, but this has got some advantages, especially the large size print.

I have read 10% of the book so far (it keeps track at the bottom of the page) but the book is very exciting and well written. It is what we call in the business, Faction, a true story that reads like fiction.

The book is ranked at about number 200 on Amazon which is incredible for a book almost 10 years old! We are off on business to Chicago on Wednesday so it is always interesting to read a book about where you are going.

So far, it is a really good story and my friend who recommended it really raved about it.

We were in Pompeii on our trip and the next day we saw the book Pompeii by Robert Harris. It is also a fictional story based on 2 days before the volcano in 79 AD and the day after. It was really a good story too. The main character is a government employee responsible for looking after the aquaducts. Lots of payoffs and corruption in government even way back then....some things never change.

driver100

I gather you don’t have cooling seats in your 3 Series which I thought you would have had.

I am not sure they had cooled seats on 2008 cars. I am not sure it is offered on a 3 Series even now. It is more of at least a 5 Series thing...people who are looking more for comfort than just the driving experience. I think you have to be over 55 to get that option.

I am looking forward to having those cooled seats. I'll probably have mine on full cold, and my wife will have hers on full heat.

kyfdx

I was around 8 or 9 when my mother purchased hers... Looked like this one (same color, too, but with white leather interior)

driver100

Looked like this one (same color, too, but with white leather interior)

Those are beautiful cars. I like the long hoods....but, they sure don't make them like they used to. Now they have to be all rounded and made to be practical with more passenger room and little overhang.

That's when a car was a car!

fezo

Gee, we just had a 67 Tempest wagon. You could tell it was from the same designer. Back when a Pontiac was a Pontiac.

driver100

we just had a 67 Tempest wagon.

They were nice too! I liked when cars changed their styling every year.


I think I got one;

gogiboy

"We were in Pompeii on our trip and the next day we saw the book Pompeii by Robert Harris. It is also a fictional story based on 2 days before the volcano in 79 AD and the day after."

Driver--

I read that book too when it came out. We must have similar tastes--at least to some degree. I think you'll find that Devil is a much better book overall than Pompeii. Haven't read anything else by either offer, but am aware of Larsen's "factional" book set on a ship.

When I was in college I took a course that was entirely devoted to Pompeii. There was a time I could name most of the major roads, streets (via dell'abbondanza is the only one can now recall now 32 years later) and buildings even though I've never been to the city. My instructor traveled there regularly and often wrote about the graffiti found on site.

When I ask my college students what they read and/or are reading more than 80% just give me a blank stare (I don't count Facebook, Twitter and Wikipedia as reading).

Gogiboy

driver100

When I ask my college students what they read and/or are reading more than 80% just give me a blank stare

Being in the book business, I would say only about 5% of the population read books on a regular basis. So, your students are pretty average. One thing I believe is if you read good books, you should never get bored.

Now they have movies on airplanes, but even that gets pretty boring after one or two of those. I don't know how people fly for any length of time without a book.

I agree, Pompeii wasn't at the top of my lists as far as great story, but I liked it because you got a sense of what it must have been like living there at that time. There was grafitti, and a big brothel, and what amazed me was there were shops. Some sold bread, some were little restaurants where you could buy a sandwich or soup (they had counters with a big hole for the soup.

Also, they talked in ways like we would, with jargon and jokes. When you see a movie like the 10 Commandments, Spartacus, Ben Hur, you think they talked like bad actors. To explain it, I say to people, imagine if you...the same person you are right now, was living in Pompeii in 79AD, you would basically be the same person as you are now.

That city is huge, so it wouldn't be easy learning all those streets. You would love to see it in person.

Devil in White City is a much better book...now I am going to go and read it for awhile.

fezo

That's a bit heftier than ours but you've got it! Ours had a six cylinder in it and thus no scoop and the dash had one or two fewer gauge clusters (no clock, etc) and no fake wood - but that's the car.

It did the old GM thing which it ran badly for longer than a lot of cars would run at all. Always a soft spot in my heart for them but there would be a soft spot in my head if I bought one.

driver100

two fewer gauge clusters (no clock, etc) and no fake wood -

That fake wood looks really fake.....and that steering wheel looks really uncomfortable. But, it had a pretty nice interior in it's day.

jmonroe

That fake wood looks really fake.....

'driver'...The 66' Bonneville had a real piece of thin Walnut where the gauge cluster was. I'm pretty sure there were 3 gauges to the right of the driver and they were slanted toward the driver just a little. You're pretty good at searching this stuff, so you'd have a better chance of finding it than me.

'kyfdx'... Are you sure your mothers '67 Bonny had leather or was it vinyl? I didn't know they had leather back then in anything other than Caddys, Lincolns, etc. No big deal but now you have me wondering about that.

jmonroe

driver100

The 66' Bonneville had a real piece of thin Walnut where the gauge cluster was. I'm pretty sure there were 3 gauges to the right of the driver and they were slanted toward the driver just a little.

Is this kind of what you remember?




One 66 Bonny that was for sale said this:
Power seats, power locks, power windows, air conditioning and real burled oak wood dashboard.
Guess it was real wood!!!!

roadburner

My 1967 Riviera had real wood on the dash and console. Compared to my 1974 Monte Carlo it was obvious that GM was beginning to emphasize cost cutting at the expense of quality. Intake manifold fittings that were brass on the Riv were pot metal on the Monte. The Buick had grills behind the hidden headlamps that were of a much better quality than the exterior grill on the Chevy, etc., etc....

driver100

Compared to my 1974 Monte Carlo it was obvious that GM was beginning to emphasize cost cutting at the expense of quality.

Maybe they were trying to save the Rainforest?

That was my impression too, 60s GMs were pretty tough, by the 70s the emphasis was on cost cutting.

tjc78

That 66 Bonnie has a fantastic dash. GM really had "it" in the 60s. As for the 70s, well I do like some of the cars but in general the 60s were a much better automotive time, especially for the big 3.

driver100

That 66 Bonnie has a fantastic dash. GM really had "it" in the 60s.

In the 60s I had one friend who's family always got Pontiacs, and one that got Chevies. We always had Fords or Mercuries. I had to try to argue that the Fords looked better and the interiors were nicer.....they almost never were. Maybe that's where I learned to be so arguementative! :P

The 65 Ford was a real breakthrough car though. It felt heavier and more solid than a comprable 65 Chevrolet. I had a used 65 Ford later in life, and a friend who had a 65 Chev borrowed the Ford and he even said it was a really solid car.

But GM sure won in the styling department in the 60s and 70s.

fezo

In the 60s GM really had teh touch on power steering - just enough; not too much. With Ford you either had no power steering which would build some serious muscle turning at low speeds or way too much assist where a sneeze could send you off the road. Chrysler was in between but closer to GM.

Even our 67 Tempest and 66 Biscayne had very attractive elements to them. Nie looking cars before four teenage boys neat the hell out of them.

driver100

With Ford you either had no power steering which would build some serious muscle turning at low speeds or way

My 65 Ford didn't have power steering and it was a good way to build up muscles in the arms. From about drove 1966 to 1969 I drove taxis while I was going to teachers college (Which reminds me, where is Richard?) and most taxi owners preferred Fords for some reason. Very few GMs, but most were Fords with Plymouth and Dodges a close second. One thing I hated about the Fords was when they got older, you had to push the gear shift up in one hand, and turn the key with the other.

The owners would use a roll of toilet paper as an oil filter, anything to save a buck. Tires were often mismatched. I was probably taking my life in my hands in many more ways than one. :sick:

oldfarmer50

"...The 65 Ford was a real breakthrough car..."

My father had one just like this:

http://www.musclecarcalendar.com/MyGarage/Carls65Galaxie/CG3.jpg

Same color. I liked the tail lights and the style was much more modern than the 64. Had a 351cid if I remember correctly, pretty fast but like all Fords of the era, the tranny was junk. :lemon:

kyfdx

'kyfdx'... Are you sure your mothers '67 Bonny had leather or was it vinyl? I didn't know they had leather back then in anything other than Caddys, Lincolns, etc. No big deal but now you have me wondering about that.

I couldn't swear that it was leather.. I know her next couple of Lincolns after that had white leather... If they offered leather, I'm sure she had it.. That was the second car that I have memory of her having... light blue '62 Star Chief before that....

I know it was white on white...

jmonroe

Is this kind of what you remember?

That's it, thanks for finding it. I knew you could do it.

I only had the power windows, no power door locks, no air conditioning and it didn't have bucket seats with the console (damn, maybe I had a stripper and didn't know it ). It also had medium blue cloth seats that eveyone seemed to like, even the girl I was dating at the time. She had a '66 Caprice and I thought the interior of that car was pretty darn nice.

I see where that one seller said burled OAK but I seem to remember mine had Walnut but I guess I could be wrong about that but I knew it was real wood.

Thanks again for finding it.

jmonroe

driver100

My father had one just like this:
http://www.musclecarcalendar.com/MyGarage/Carls65Galaxie/CG3.jpg
Same color. I liked the tail lights and the style was much more modern than the 64.

My father had a 65 4 door sedan. I talked him into getting a 64 Galaxie 500 with bucket seats. He travelled for business, but he hated the bucket seats.
So he traded it in on the 65. Iliked the back lights on the 65s too....I liked that Fords always had big huge back lights during that time...the 65s were especially nice.

driver100

even the girl I was dating at the time. She had a '66 Caprice and I thought the interior of that car was pretty darn nice.

I never dated any girl who actually owned a really nice car....what's your secret? Ah, on second thought, this is a family channel.

Too bad you didn't have the console, that made those cars even better. If I remember correctly, they were sloped down toward the driver....really nice!

oldfarmer50

"...I never dated a girl who actually owned a really nice car..."

The wife owned a 1969 Camaro when I met her. Traded it in on a 1974 Charger just before we got married.

I know a keeper when I see one.

driver100

The wife owned a 1969 Camaro when I met her. Traded it in on a 1974 Charger just before we got married.

Ah, married her for her good taste in cars! :P

kpl1228

Hi all:
I'm a rookie at this, so bear with me. I have a very limited amount to spend on a car. I found a great deal on a new sedan online, and i want it. BAD. It is 300 miles away, and no one else locally is doing a deal even close to this (last 2011 on the lot of this model, etc). I don't have good credit, and I lucked out by getting it approved through my job. In short, I really am not haggling, I can spend "this much" out the door and that's it. I'm basically broke right now.
I called today, to try to get this car down in price. He won't budge. he could care less about my situation: he says there's been a bunch of hits on the website so he knows it'll sell (but it hasn't sold in weeks). For me to get this done today, it will involve a cheap one-way plane ticket and a train ride. All worth it for this deal. He may be telling the truth, but i doubt it. The guy's a yep and nope guy. Can I just call the sales manager and try to get him to budge on the deal a little more? Or if i go around this sales guy, am I dead in the water?

jmonroe

I never dated any girl who actually owned a really nice car....what's your secret?

I went to grade school with this girl through 8 th grade. Then my family moved to the suburbs after that and I never saw her again until I was talked into going to a dance one night. Got to talking and the next thing I knew we were dating. Funny thing about that dance, I met quite a few guys and gals that I went to grade school with. Guess who else I also met at that dance. Yeah, you’re right and believe it or not I even knew her because she lived 2 doors up the street from a cousin of mine but we didn’t go to grade school together because we were in different school districts.

Another believe it or not; Mrs. j didn’t even have a drivers license until we moved to our first house in the suburb, after living in an apartment in the Burgh, for the first 2 years we were married. And still another believe it or not, even though she got a late start at driving she knows how to drive better than I do, just ask her. :surprise:

jmonroe

tjc78

You could certainly try going direct to a manager, it wouldn't hurt, but it seems as if the dealership is trying to move a unit on it's website at a rock bottom price.

How far apart are you from the dealer's asking price? Does their website price reflect some sort of crazy rebate you may not qualify for? For example, there may be a rebate that only applies using the manufacturer's financing.

tjc78

(Which reminds me, where is Richard?

He hasn't posted since before my new car story on the 12th. I hope all is well with him.

jmonroe

I'm a rookie at this, so bear with me.

I don't have good credit, and I lucked out by getting it approved through my job.

We have heard this a few times on this forum and the best advice I can give you is to get out of debt before buying a new car. I know this isn’t what you want to hear but that is the best advice I can give you. To get a plane ticket and then a train, that deal would have to be really out of sight. Could it actually be that good or are you in love with the idea of getting a new car? But even if it were I’d wait.

jmonroe

kpl1228

no there's no crazy rebate. My concern is that I'll tick the sales guy off, if the sales manager's his buddy and tells him, and then they won't deal with me at all. The car is 16K, I have 15K, and there is a loyalty program through the dealer that will take an additional $500 off if I have another car in my driveway of that make. I do not, but it seems to hint at some wiggle room available. I called the sales guy back and mentioned this, and he said "do you have that car?" I said no, and he said, well then no deal. he said "i'm not desperate to sell this car at all: it'll sell what I'm asking for it." he says they are at rock bottom, and i KIND OF believe him when he says it, but maybe there is some way to get it down. not trying to be a jerk; just trying to pull this off down to the penny. I'm capped at a certain amt. and thats it.

tjc78

I do not, but it seems to hint at some wiggle room available

This is exactly what I was talking about.... there is a manufacturer rebate you are not eligible for. That 500 is not coming from the dealer. It is not "wiggle room". If the dealer is down at invoice minus all eligible rebates you aren't going to get much better.

The car is 16K, I have 15K,

So let me get this straight: The dealer has it advertised for 16K (including the $500 rebate you aren't eligible for?) so basically you are $1500 apart. I don't see it happening especially if the dealer has already mentioned "rock bottom" Add all this up plus the fact that you have to spend a plain ticket and train ride to get there and it seems to me you should be shopping local for a different unit.

I'd be happy to check out this unit to look at the details if you point me to the website where it is listed.

kpl1228

Plane ticket's about 100 bucks on Expedia, train tickets 10 bucks...no big deal there. No, we are $1000 apart----it does NOT include the mysterious $500 rebate. And the way the dealer said it implied that it was something the dealership did, NOT the car company.

tjc78

All you can do is attempt to get a SM on the phone and explain you will buy the car today for 15K OTD with your own financing. You have nothing to lose but 5 minutes on the phone. It sounds like you are trying to negotiate on a car that has no more room.

Did you check out here on Edmunds what the invoice is and how close the dealer is to it?

mako1a

He won't budge. he could care less about my situation

Think about if you were selling and some poor [non-permissible content removed] wanted to pay you less just because he didn't have the resources. Would you care?

Bypassing the salesman is not going to change anything. The new car manager has final say and is probably directing the salesman.

Before you get on a plane, make sure you have everything in writing, down to the final penny.

The best thing you have going for you is your limited money supply. You couldn't overspend if you wanted to. This will ultimately work in your favor.

kpl1228

Invoice is very close to what it is----no wiggle room. And the rebate is from the manufacturer.

tjc78

OK, well in any case let us know how you make out and ask any questions you have. There are a bunch of knowledgeable people who post on this board.

jmonroe

Think about if you were selling and…

Before you get on a plane, make sure you have everything in writing, down to the final penny.

I prefer to think of it as how many times have we heard “oh, the girl in the office should have noted that the price quoted doesn’t include the doc fee, the wax fee, the fabric protection fee, the …”. Then we hear, “since I was all ready here and had all this invested, what else could I do”?

If I had very limited funds I wouldn’t be buying any tickets to chase anything that wasn’t in my neighborhood.

Nope, not for me.

jmonroe

mako1a

chase anything that wasn’t in my neighborhood.

I'm trying to figure out where you live. Must be near Monroeville

as the turnpike you talk about doesn't go near Pgh. Or is it Cranberry

with the extra toll exits. Are you in Oakland, Highland Park? You keep

saying you live in Pittsburgh, but it's a long drive thru construction

zones to the PaTpk.

[Deleted User]

Hello kpl1228. It sounds like you're dead set on this particular vehicle and I'm betting the sales person senses your anxiety, which may explain his resistance to deal on the price. Or the advertised price may actually be rock bottom. In either case, you really have only two options to get that specfic sedan. First, deal with the sales guy, which you've already tried and isn't working for you. Second, deal with someone else. If the sales guy won't deal, then your only other option is to try someone different at the dealership. At this point, you have nothing to lose. Try the fleet manager or the SM.

Others have already mentioned it, but personally I'd walk away from a deal that stretched my finances so tight. If you absolutely need a vehicle right now and don't have a car to limp you along until you're in a better spot financially, then seek one out that more easily fits your budget. You mentioned $15,000. At that range a used car certainly makes sense, or something new like a Sonic or Versa. If you haven't already, price out the changes to your insurance, yearly taxes/fees, fuel, etc... to be certain you'll be able to afford the loan and extras . Nothing takes the luster off a new vehicle like the stress over how to cover payments.

Good luck and I hope it all works out for the best.

verdugo

If I had very limited funds I wouldn’t be buying any tickets to chase anything that wasn’t in my neighborhood.

I'm with monroe on this. There are very good used cars for $15k. I'd actually buy one that is around $12k or $13k and set the other $3/$2k in my "just in case" fund.

Best of luck to the OP.