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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Don't worry about Richard. He'll come in his own time. Once he sees I've got a Solara he'll leave again......
BTW I don't think whoever (pardon my brain) about the wrestling a pig was implying you're a pig. A little oversensitivity there. Another way the idea has been stated is that in antelligent person should never argue with an idiot because some people won't know who is who....
I agree 100%. A difference of opinion is nothing......it's one reason people have a conversation, to draw out opinions so you can formulate your own.
I just read where successful companies like people to have dissenting opinions...it leads to more thoughts and ideas.
Your thoughts are very sensible and realistic. The world would be a better place if we can realize people do have different views and opinions....it isn't a big deal.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks, now I feel much better. I guess I'd rather be an idiot than a pig....though pigs are supposed to be pretty smart.
Thanks for the offer on driving the car back......I'll keep that in mind.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Just don't commit any major crimes as they can track your movements with it.
Forget that I said that. I'm just jealous that fezo has a new convertible. I'd KILL to have one.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I would bet you that if we all got together to hang out for a day that one would understand a lot more about where each of us is coming from. One observation of mine is that people with different political views can discuss politics pretty rationally in person and not so much online. Inflections and nuance - not to mention plain old humor - is often lost in the typed word.
When the very first ones came out the tracked down a couple of guys who killed a former high ranking Republican - he'd been their nominee for governor one year - and then stole his car. They were able to follow the EZPass and nailed the buggers.
But they still have to go through all the standard procedures of getting a warrant to access the information.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I knew that.........I was just having fun with it. I agree, talking in person can make a big difference in most cases, in some cases it could be worse.
If we all thought exactly the same, it would be even more boring around here, not to mention the world. lol
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No problem from me. One downside about humor I have noticed is this;
When it is funny it works well, unfortunately it can backfire and it comes out really bad. When people try humor and miss, I always allow some slack, because I think it is good that they try...humor makes us all feel better...but, if it misses, it's best just to move on and try again some other time. I wouldn't want to discourage people from making a humorous comment.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Here is a summary of the article which was in the Canadian National newspaper, The Globe and Mail;
Success! VW seems to have nailed it.
“VW has positioned AND priced the Jetta to be more of a mass appeal vehicle and are having considerable success with this strategy,” says Dennis DesRosiers of DesRosiers Automotive Consultants in a note to clients.
The Jetta is now Canada’s sixth best-selling passenger car after being juiced by a healthy dose of sales sweeteners in September. Jetta sales last month were up a stunning 177 per cent and have exploded on the year by an unheard of 153.3 per cent.
Clichéd as it is, size matters – as in a bigger Jetta. Price, too, of course. Want a best-seller in Canada? Give the middle class customer a bigger Jetta for less money, and watch cars sail out of dealer showrooms.
At least for now. But I would argue this strategy has a limited shelf life.
I suspect a lot of Jetta buyers think they are getting a European small sedan at a discount. They’re not. This Jetta was designed specifically for North American buyers and it’s assembled in Mexico.
No one should fault VW for reading the market and reacting in a way that has boosted Jetta sales one and a half times. But there is at least the possibility of owners realizing too late that they are driving a VW that’s bigger, but has less content – and designed for the Americas, not for Europe – and finding disappointment in that.
The new Passat is another made-in-and-designed-for-the-Americas model, not the smaller and better-equipped European Passat.
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That probably explains quite a bit.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I had to get back to this post because of what we discussed tonight over dinner.
You probably said that because you know that Mrs. j was interested in a bath redo. Well, that may not take place now because, for among other reasons, she’s not so sure that taking out the wall and going into the 4 th bedroom is such a good idea because we’d be making a 3 bedroom house out of a 4 bedroom house. Not the brightest thing to do real estate wise but not a death knell in our hood. While it would have been a real knockout master bath it would have laid me out.
BTW - I had a lot of hang out time in the Hyundai showroom where they had a Genny coupe, a Sonata, an Accent and two Equuses (Equui?). Just amazing. You have a $16K car sitting nest to a $65K car. Don't see that anywhere else. The Equus is really nicely done.
If you heard Son #1 talk about this it’s not amazing it’s STUPID. At least that’s what he said when I was first interested in the Genny in ’09. He said Hyundai should have created an upscale division to get away from the Hyundai name just like Honda, Toyota and Nissan did when they went up scale. His words were something like, “do you think most people who are interested in a $40K car wants to walk into a showroom where there are $15K cars? I don’t think so and Hyundai should know this if they are truly trying to get into the up scale market. Why do you think the others guys didn’t do it. I’ll tell you why, they knew better and were serious. That doesn’t mean that the Genesis can’t compete with the others car wise, because from what I’ve read about that car it can. You just have to go about it the right way and the right way is with a different sign hanging out front”.
He said this before there was a $65K Equss. That has to make it an even tougher sell. When I mentioned this to a salesman that came over to me, when I was looking at an Equss when the Genny was in the shop because of the audio amplifier problem in March of this year, the salesman said, “we’re not interested in the buyers who have to have a badge. We’re after the buyer who can appreciate value”. I said, “good luck”. He then said, “Hyundai was a little concerned about that when the Equss was being considered for sale in the US but our sales so far have been well ahead of the projections”. I said, “you’ll have to have more than a month or two of good sales to feel good about a new model”.
Now, having said all that, with the bath redo almost dead I might be able to consider getting an Equss and the Genny could available sooner than expected. If I can do this and still have limbs to enjoy the car, it will be the most amazing feat that I have ever pulled off.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Regarding the Hyundai Eqqus (sp?). Who are they targeting here? Lexus LS buyers? MB S-Class buyers? I'm not saying it isn't a nice car. My parents both drive vehicles in that compete price wise with this Hyundai. There are not badge hounds at all. I can tell you there is NO WAY they'd even set foot in a Hyundai dealership.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
We need Richard to point out a "They're" is needed instead of "They are".
However, I digress.
Nyc, I think you are right that most Luxury car buyers aren't going to shop down to save a few dollars....they like what they have and are willing to pay for it. Maybe Hyundai is aiming for the up and coming person who can't put out the big bucks for the luxo car, but wants to get into that market....and that's pretty much a wide open field...not too many cars in that category.
Also, bringing the Eqqus to your home kind of solves the problem of being in the showroom with lesser vehicles.
I have to think the Eqqus is not for a Mercedes owner who is trying to save a few bucks, it's for someone going the other way....my guess!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That sounds like the definition of “contradiction”. An explanation would help here.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Second, we visited the dealership last night to visit with our sales rep, Pete, in person after our purchase over the phone. He was with a customer at the time we arrived, so my wife, daughter, and I entertained ourselves looking at the STI and Legacy on the showroom floor. We put my 7-year-old in the driver seat of each and managed to configure the seats so she could just reach the pedals and hold onto the steering wheel. I even taught her how to clutch-gear-release with the STI :shades: Makes a daddy proud
When Pete finished with his customer, we went through all the paperwork and determined exactly what the Limited trim includes and what it does not. The one option I couldn't figure out from my Internet research was the auto-dimming mirror. We learned the standard Limited mirror is manual, and also doesn't include Homelink or a compass. Those are things we want, so they checked the order status online and learned we're still within the window to make options changed, and we chose to add the combined auto-dimming/compass/Homelink mirror to the build. It saves $100 to do it before assembly, which is nice. Price was about $250 to make the addition and we were more than happy to do so.
Pete's been great to work with. Though it was getting late he was enthusiastic about our purchase and spent the time to educate us on all the options for which we can apply our $500 Subaru accessories money. Truly, a genuinely helpful person. He just returned from a multi-day Subaru training event at the local Larry Miller Raceway. There they learned all about the new Impreza and drove it side-by-side against the competition in low friction environments, down drag strips, and in aggressive corning. He's enthused about the new ride, obviously, and showed off all his pictures from the event. They even set up a college apartment, then broke it down and stuffed it into the 5-door hatch. Pretty cool.
-Ty
Interesting observations about the VW engines. VW is a company that has a lot going for it, increasing sales, the ability to use crossover parts and resources for all their lines including Audi. They plan on being #1 in car sales....but they can't quite seem to get their act together.
From the article I quoted I would love to know the differences the American and US versions differ on;
But there is at least the possibility of owners realizing too late that they are driving a VW that’s bigger, but has less content – and designed for the Americas, not for Europe – and finding disappointment in that.
At the risk of upsetting a few people, I wonder what those differences are, and why Americans expect less from their cars. Conversely, it might help explain why many people buy luxury European brands.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What VW has cut out are things like independent suspensions, soft touch plastics in places where it doesn't matter, hood struts, et al. They've also make the cars bigger to meet American expectations. Most importantly they are manufacturing in Mexico and the US which eliminates the disadvantage of the Euro penalty.
The traditional VW dash stokers are up in arms but VW must be doing something right. Sales are up.
Not really badge hounds, they probably wouldn't like to be around those type of people. That makes them people hounds I guess.
BMW has oficially completely departed from its original displacement-based model designations. It's been in the works for quite a while, but the turbos are now oficially in the entire lineups and designations are no representing power, not displacement.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I am sure you are right. There isn't too much information available about the 2012 3 Series. I got my information from a Canadian newspaper. The article I read before said the 328 would become the 4 cylinder, this article called it a 320 - the first time I saw that used.
Smaller engines and smaller cars sell much better in Canada, so maybe BMW thinks it just won't work in the USA. It should be a big hit up here, where gas is about $5 a gallon!
Everyone says the new 3 Series will be a radical change. From the picture they showed I couldn't see any difference between the 2012 and the 2011.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What a man! We are not worthy....
Great to hear that.
I'm hoping VW gets serious about reliability and dealer attitude. Really if just those two issues were resolved I'd probably buy nothing else. If they made a Passat convertible it would be in my driveway right now.
Thanks for mentioning the changes the North American version will have...or should I say not have. Making the Jettas in Mexico should lead to big savings. I still wonder though why Americans are buying up Jettas in big numbers when Europeans probably wouldn't accept those cost cutting methods. I understand Americans wanting a larger car, I just don't know why they are willing to accept an inferior car. I think for most people in North America size and cost is way more important than quality and ambiance.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Really true. My brother said he would never get another VW after his Rabbit experience in the 80s. But, he got a Jetta about 3 years ago. Quite a few problems, one that kept happening was the rubber moulding around the back door wouldn't stay stuck on. It took weeks for new parts to come in. In the meantime, the dealer could care less.
He traded in the Jetta after 2 years. I think this time, he really won't be getting another VW.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, at least you knew something was wrong. All he needed was "they" in place of "there". "They're and "they are" mean the same thing.
Keep trying, I know those Canadian rules are tough !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Don't you have the X1?
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Yes, we do have the X1 and that is the 4 cylinder engine that will be used in the 328 models if I understand correctly. This seemed to sum it up pretty well;
We should continue to get the 335i, powered by a twin-scroll turbo 3-liter inline six-cylinder engine. The 328i gets the biggest change, featuring BMW's new twin-scroll turbo 2-liter, four-cylinder engine. Making 245 horsepower, that smaller engine gets the 328i to 62 mph in 5.9 seconds.
BMW will make its eight-speed automatic transmission available in the 3 Series, along with its six-speed manual. An idle-stop feature shuts down the engine at traffic stops, helping to save gas. BMW also adds an Eco Pro setting to the drive modes that is designed to maximize fuel economy.
For cabin tech, BMW announced an array of new driver assistance features, such as a full-color head-up display, which would not only show navigation and current vehicle speed, but can also indicate the speed limit on the current road, and whether passing is allowed. Other features will include adaptive cruise control, lane-departure warnings, and surround-view cameras to help prevent parking lot dings
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2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes houdini, you are correct, either way would have worked. BTW Not really a Canadian thing, those two fixes would have worked on both sides of the border.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree though about engines. With their world wide reach, can't they find a better 4 cyl to bring here? Not that I am in the market for a "big" mid size car like the Passat, but if I was, the 2.5l 5 might be enough to turn me off. At least offer the 2.0T as an option.
also, haven't they been making Jettas in Mexico for a long time? Or was that just Golfs?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Totally agree about the Passat needing the 2.0T.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
click here
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Much appreciated...you know how I like to have the last word.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
base, premium (big motor) and efficiency (TDI vs. hybrids).
Passat swept the field. And it was largely it's German-ness that did it (ride, handling, interior style).
And shocking to me, the I-5 was very good on gas, right up there with the Camry I4, and better than the Sonata I think. They even praised it for smoothness, but it was kind of slow.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Am loving the Solara!
Maybe I'll try a tank of premium to see if I notice any difference but the car is plenty quick for my driving just as it is.
I'm shocked about the 2.5 efficiency. I put a thousand miles on a rental Golf with the 2.5 driving the rural areas of Virginia and Pennsylvania and couldn't break 30 mpg. The engine was a pig on gas and slow on hustle. It's strange they've been able to take the same motor and put it in a full-size vehicle (volume) and get better fuel economy. Of course, they did the same with the diesel, getting better economy with the Passat than the much smaller Golf.
We currently have a 2004 Sienna LE with 83K miles that we would be looking to trade. From all the research I have done and offers from competing dealers, I know the car is worth somewhere between 8 - 9 K on trade. We bought it used and owe approximately 5K on it.
The salesman and a business manager do the dance with the car and the business manager hands me the keys and says, "that's a nice, clean car". Fast forward a few minutes and the sales man comes back and shoots me a price of $6500 for my sienna. I nicely tell him that's not happening and that Dealer B who I visited last weekend offered $8500. The salesman gives me a stunned look and goes back to the business manager who then comes back to me and says, "well that's what the computer is telling me this is what the market says it is" and "well, what are you looking for?" Told him no less than 8K. Tells me he would have to clear that with his GM but, if he could do 8K could we sign the papers today? I tell him I want to sleep on anything we talk about today.
He then asks me why I want AWD and proceeds to extol the virtues of the FWD LE. The AWD would be significantly more (which I figured). We're not married to the AWD and we would consider the FWD if the deal was right. I asked him for pricing on a FWD LE with tax included in the payment. The business manager then asks me why I would not want to pay the tax upfront. I told him on every car I have leased new (5 total) I have NEVER paid the tax upfront because if something catastrophic happens to the car, I'm out the $. He looks at me like it's the craziest thing he's ever heard. He then proceeds to tell me that I have probably paid around $500 more each on all the previous leases by doing that. Said that I have paid interest on the sales tax. NEVER did I pay more than the 8.625% state sales tax per month on any lease payment spanning 5 previous vehicles. I challenged him on the claim, but did not argue. Is the guy correct? Am I wrong that I'm sure that the added tax on the base payment was a straight 8.625% (NY State tax)? ie 299 payment + tax was 324?
At this point, I'm ready to get up and leave. They never told me the sale price, the residual, or MF. Just want to shoot a payment. He offers to run the price with and without Tax for me. Comes back and tells me that woth my trade and $1800 in tax up front my payment would be $289. With tax in the payment would be $349 + my trade. A spread of $60 a month in taxes.
My calculations come out to $289 + 8.625% = $313.93. Ways away from $349
I walked and won't be back.
Off to check on the odyssey next. Maybe I'll have better luck with honda.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Payment was $412/mo including tax for 36 months & 15K per year allowed.
Monday was a new month & VW was pushing financing instead of leasing. Payment ballooned from $412 to $447.
The people could not have been nicer. Manager asked if I wanted to finance or take a 4 year lease. I flat out told him NO WAY I was going to lease a VW that would be out of warranty before I turned it in.
You all know that this story does have a very happy ending. For an extra $25/month we leased our beloved, Montego Blue, 2007 BMW X3. I miss our X3 & cannot wait to have another BMW in our stable again!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I think, as somebody living half of their life here and other (earlier) part across the Pond, I can attempt an answer. I think it is accurate to say that Americans (in general) expect less (overall in quality, finish, ride, etc.) from their cars. However, they also expect to pay even less - in other words, dollar-for-dollar they actually get MORE, but because they pay about two-thirds or half of the prices in other markets, they learned to accept lower quality threshold. This is actually the case not only for cars, but also for many electronic items and other consumer products. The market is split into popular and luxury segments with very little in between. Popular segment tends to have very fierce competition and is driver by price much stronger than say in Europe. It is probably due to size of the market that even small savings in content to meet the price target translate to large savings in scale. European markets are more local (French , English, or German markets are all separate hence have separate strategies and often slightly different products), which limits scale of savings.
Average European buys probably half of the cars an average American does, spends more on it both in dollars and even more in terms of their salary. So a purchase is a very big deal, something they can't afford to get wrong. We have a saying in Polish that poor person can't afford a cheap stuff. On the other hand, in America, the car has to be cheap, large, and have certain ammenities (power doors, cruise control, AT, etc.). Today, gas mileage is another (new) variable. The rest is negotiable. It translates to vehicles like base Accord or Camry that are large, have good gas mileage, are reliable, but drive like crap and have trully cheap interiors. You simply can't have it all for 20-25K, so you get what is important to the people at the moment.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
and hey, not everyone here wants size of quality, or even big. I think my 2005 accord is big enough (actually bigger than I need). My next car will for sure be smaller, and I consider the new model to be a barge.
Then again we have people like Lemko and Andre that probably consider a new accord to be a subcompact...
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yeah, we've noticed...even when you're wrong.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I just checked the trade in value on Kelly Blue Book 2004 Sienna Blue Book and average trade in price was $8500.
If Dealer B offered $8500 then Dealer A is probably going to say, why didn't you trade in there? I'd be cusrious to know too.
They never told me the sale price, the residual, or MF. Just want to shoot a payment. He offers to run the price with and without Tax for me.
It doesn't make much sense to me to pay the tax up front. You are leasing to make your initial payment as low as possible, and you just pay tax on whatever your monthly payment is. If using the car for business this would just be more difficult to calculate for tax purposes.
It sounds like this dealer relies on people who just want to make the lowest monthly payment possible...they don't care about cost of the new car or what their trade is worth.
What I am concerned about is you have a used Sienna that you bought used and you still owe $5000 on it, but want to lease a new Sienna. It would be nice to pay off a used vehicle before you think about trading it in.
Then you would have a nice downpayment to put down to own a new one, or have some savings in case you need it for the lease, if something goes wrong.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250