Stories from the Sales Frontlines

tjc78

Cloth w/Nav on a Honda? That must be something the previous owner did (either added the Nav or deleted the leather). It usually goes EX, EX-L, EX-L w/Nav I believe.

jmonroe

I would like to know, just for my own peace of mind, where exactly the 05 XG350 is right now. If the dealer still has it on the back lot, it makes me think he has reason to believe he may end up fixing it for you.

OK, since you asked, but I really was going to get back to you guys with the last word on the busted XG350; honest.

After I bought the Subie, I no longer had a need for the XG350 and since the service manager had called a few days before we went to get the Subie on 11-26-11, I called him back on 11-30-11. He says right away, before I had a chance to tell him that I was going to get it off his lot, that he would lower his $3500 repair charge to drop a new Hyundai engine in it. His price would be $3000 even (before tax). He goes on to tell me that the new engine would have a 100K mile Hyundai warranty on it. I’m thinking to myself, why the hell would I trust a new Hyundai engine with a 100K mile warranty, when the first one that came with the car, wasn’t worth a s--- but I bit my tongue, which for me was a hard thing to do given what transpired. I told him I’d think about it so I wasn’t pushed to get it off his lot that day.

On Saturday 12-2-11, I’m thinking of selling it outright so I go into the used car lot at this mega store wanting to see how much they’ll give me for it as it sits. I’m told that since it’s a Hyundai I had to go over to the Hyundai store because they handle everything involving a Hyundai over there.

If you guys remember, when I was told that my car would not be fixed under warranty (before I appealed the claim denial), for the fun of it, I went into the showroom and talked to a salesman about trading it as it sat. He gets a price from the Hyundai used car manager of $2K. I said that would never be enough and the young salesman said that he could call the next morning to see if it would be worth more to a wholesaler, because $2K was all he could get from his Hyundai used car manager. I said OK do that and get back to me. He never did get back to me. Anyway, I’m now in this Hyundai used car manager’s office and I’m thinking that he’s not even going to give me $2K now because I told him I wasn’t going to buy a car from them but I figured that it was worth a shot. He said he heard about my car and he also said, just like the SM told the woman that works at our place, “reps can be a real PITA to work with”. He seemed to remember giving me a price of $2K and pulls out his paperwork on the offer to be sure he was right . I said again that price would not do the deal. He asked what I wanted and I said $2900. He said, “c’mon, you know I can’t do that. How about $2500”? I acted all hurt and started to get up and he said, “OK, $2800 but that’s it, no more because I don’t want you to have a bad taste about us over this”. I told him I’d think about it and get back to him on Monday (12-5-11).

I tell both sons, that if I’m willing to pay $3000 (before taxes of $210) I could probably get what it was worth before the engine died. Which was somewhere around $5800 to $6000. They both told me I was drunk because, as good as the car was, and it was in great shape body wise and everything else, people would be thinking ‘what else is about to go wrong with the car’? They both said they would not go anywhere near a car when someone told them “it is a great car but I had to put a new engine in it to sell it”. Since I found out that I could not pass on the factory warranty to a buyer, just having a new engine wasn’t a big enough plus as far as my sons were concerned. I told them that you could say that about any used car so I didn’t buy into argument. Although they both agreed that I'd be hard pressed to sell it for more than $2800 as it sat.

I told them it’s a moot point because I’m not going to fix it and sell it. I’m just going to sell it as it sits. Which I did last Monday (12-12-11). I reasoned that if I could get $5800 for it, which again they laughed at, I would be still be $210 in the hole.

$5800 – $3210 ($3000 to fix plus $210 taxes is $3210 which would be my total cost to fix it) = $2590 (apparent profit).

$2590 - $2800 (price I was getting for it as it sat) = minus $210

Obviously, if I had to sell it for anything less than $5800, I’d be losing even more money.

Of course all this is still not as good as getting them to fix it under warranty. Based on that, if I could get $5800 for it I’m in the hole $2000. I could fight this and if I was able to win that battle, which I was told by a lawyer it could cost me at least $500, without any guarantee of winning. Although he thought I had a pretty good case.

I guess it could be said that I chickened out and wasn’t willing to spend, who knows how much money, on principle to prove I was right. I now have to settle for any fun I may be able to get by trying to take sales away from Hyundai, if I can. As I said in a previous post I’m at one and counting.

jmonroe

fezo

It's a good thing I didn't hear about that Accord before I bought the Solara.

That Accord would be my type of car, but since it's not a convertible....

mako1a

why the hell would I trust a new Hyundai engine with a 100K mile warranty, when the first one that came with the car, wasn’t worth a s---

You couldn't have made me keep quiet with a gag order on that remark!

driver100

Does your son share your passion for BMW's?

Thanks for checking out pricing on the Yukon...I wouldn't have thought of that.
Surprised he saved that much, and I would guess in Canada those cars could be up to $2000 more.

He would love to have a BMW but that isn't likely. My son, wife and 4 kids live in a remote area of Vancouver Island. To visit them we would have to travel 2 hours down a gravel road with lots of holes. Big logging trucks come at you and you have to pull over to let them through. I call them, back to the earth people, they built their own house and he is very good mechanically, he keeps old vehicles running. One vehicle they stil have is a VW Wesfalla


The vehicle they sold was about a 1960 pick up truck with 4 doors that they converted to propane.

NOw our daughter and her husband are the opposite. She has my BMW X3 and he has a Lexus Hybrid SUV. They are the consumers and capitalists.

My son would love to have a BMW, but he would feel really funny driving it I think.

driver100

grinding in the opposite direction with their various techniques of saying "fixed pricing,"

I am sure they don't see it that way...they stick with their prices (ha ha).

When my son first met with the owner he said I know your brother and he is one of the biggest thieves around. I wouldn't have said that myself, but I know some are thinking they know where he gets it from. He did it in a joking way but underneath he was serious. He thinks that helped him, because it showed the owner he knew who he was dealing with, and he made him try a little harder to win back some respect for his family.

My son says he would have walked for sure if it was $1 more than $12k all in.

driver100

Says it looks like a small SUV

I think the X5 looks small in a picture because of the big windows and the chunky look of it...but it is enormous. If not as big as a Yukon it is pretty close. Probably has more safety features too, not to mention better handling to get you out of situations. I would be concerned about servicing since you don't have a dealer nearby. And, BMW has great extended warrantys...for about $2500 they'll give you 160k miles.

driver100

But getting squished is part of that feel of the road......

lol

driver100

$2590 - $2800 (price I was getting for it as it sat)

So did the dealer give you $2590 or $2800 for the car as it was? I am not clear about that and I have had a full day. Sorry, you wrote a really clear explanation but I am not sure what you ended up doing. Sounded like you weren't going to put an engine in and end up possibly with that amount if nobody asked why it had a new engine in it. :confuse:

explorerx4

Driver, So your son is a Hippie? Well good for him. He's his own man.
My sister likes to think she is a Hippie, but a stick on Peace Sign on your car just isn't 'walking the walk'.

driver100

Driver, So your son is a Hippie?

Yes, but he does follow his beliefs and he doesn't complain or "occupy" any where. He has real jobs but works at what he wants to. He got his millwright certificate so could make big bucks fixing machinery, but that kind of work is shift work or on call...which he doesn't want.

I go nuts if I visit them. It is so boring there. 2 hours along a logging road, then we park, call him, he picks us up in his little boat, and we go to their side of the river. Total population is 300, 150 live on each side of the river. No stores, no pizza, no real restaurants,. The B&B is a Bed and NO Breakfast place. So if we visit we meet them in town, they stay at a nice hotel with a pool and we can visit some beautiful towns.

Peace brother!

jmonroe

So did the dealer give you $2590 or $2800 for the car as it was?

I got $2800.

I am not clear about that and I have had a full day.

OK...based on that I'll give you partial credit for not understanding. :confuse:

I said $2590 - $2800 ($2500 minus $2800). That is a negative number so I would be losing $210 if I fixed it and sold it for $5800. That's why I took $2800 for it as it sat. Look at it again in the morning after your coffee. It will make perfect sense then.

jmonroe

jmonroe

but a stick on Peace Sign on your car just isn't 'walking the walk'

Well, it's better than half a peace sign and I'm not talking about the index finger either. :P

jmonroe

driver100

That's why I took $2800 for it as it sat.

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be clear before I replied. I think you did the best thing. I still think you didn't do too badly if you calculate the purchase price, less the $2800, and the cost of driving a year. It would have been nice to get the extra $3000 you should have had, and it is such a bad experience you wouldn't want to chance buying another Hyundai product, but, your cost per driving per year probably isn't too bad. So, you learned a valuable lesson and it did cost, but it could have been a lot worse.

driver100

What else would they say? Our system is between third and fifth?

Now, I heard another ad on the radio this morning...Mitsubishi says their AWD system is the "most advanced". That makes Audi, Suburu, Jaguar (I remembered it was Jaguar) and now Mitsu that say they have the best AWD system. I don't expect them to say their's is 4th or 5th best, but I don't think they should all say their's is the best.

But, like I say, proving what is best for each person is impossible, so they can get away with it.

sterlingdog

"So your son is a Hippie? Well good for him. He's his own man."

That philosophy comes with a long list of prices in this life.

Richard

sterlingdog

It's both interesting and strange how children turn out, regardless of who WE are as people. I was thinking about this the other day. Beyond the home environment, there are so many other factors that determine development---where they travel, who they meet, what they read, what they hear and see, who their teachers were, plus how they view their parents lives. Having children is like spinning the roulette wheel---we never know where the little ball will stop. I used to hear many parents say one of three things about their children: "But I tried so hard." (Maybe too hard), ""But I wanted him to be..." (Maybe it shouldn't have been what YOU wanted.), "I'm so proud of him." (And I am proud of YOU.) Whether planned or by accident, having a child is a real leap of faith---certainly one well worth taking.

Richard

sterlingdog

Well, I read your post with mixed emotions. On the one hand, I wanted you to fight them to the death. On the other hand, life is short and the painful experiences are best put to rest as soon as possible. We can all say what we would have done, but you had to base your decision on your needs, desires, and perspective. I'm glad that you have this behind you. When my students used to say, "Mr. Richard, this isn't fair.", I would reply with, "We aren't going to be able to attend the fair this year." It's all part of life. You can move on now and enjoy your new purchase.

Richard

fezo

One of my great treasures in life is that I heard both parents tell me who proud they were at the person I turned out today. Dad was pretty much dumbfounded.

They felt that way about all 5 of us and rightly so. Not a bum in the lot.

sterlingdog

"...but I don't think they should all say their's is the best."

Welcome to that free market place that we once discussed.

Richard

sterlingdog

If the others are like you, your parents were most fortunate. :shades:

Richard

driver100

It's both interesting and strange how children turn out, regardless of who WE are as people.

That is a ver interesting topic. We have 3 children and they are all completely different. There is the hippie - thank goodness he found a wife with the same values (just to give some idea, the kids weren't allowed plastic toys when younger - only wood), daughter is a child psychologist and her husband owns a communications company, and youngest lives the simple life...kind of a semi-hippie. And, my wife and I are small "c" conservatives who believe in a true free capitalistic enterprise system....because it is the only system that really works.

Try to figure that one out. But, yes, it is the influence of friends and experiences that bring us to where we are.

fezo

The others are a lot like me but more financially successful. This is largely because the health issues dogged me all my life and so I found a nice little niche that would let me earn my way and still be OK on various health matters. No complaints even though I would love one of driver's feel of the road mobiles....

verdugo

My pleasure!

jmonroe

Having children is like spinning the roulette wheel---we never know where the little ball will stop.

I guess you can say we were one of the lucky parents. The ball stopped just about where we wanted it to. Don’t get me wrong, our sons were not angels but everything considered, I can honestly say it wasn’t bad at all.

When they were young all I heard from parents of older kids was, “yeah, it’s easy when they are 2 or 3 or… (pick any age and insert it here) but when they are blankity blank it’s not so easy”. Well, I kept waiting for them to reach that troublesome age. I came to the conclusion that if they are taught right (my way was always right ), as they progressed in life, things didn’t just all of a sudden go off the deep end. At least it didn’t for us. Was it easy? NO…but it wasn’t insurmountable like I have heard some parents lament. I used my parent’s philosophy…little problems become big problems if they are ignored from the beginning.

Richard, being a teacher you might appreciate this:

When Son #1 was in grade school (I think it was 6 th grade), he brought home an interim report for the first 6 weeks. It wasn’t bad but we were both surprised because it wasn’t anything near as good as they were in previous years. Mrs. jmonroe called the school immediately and arranged to meet with his teacher (just so happened to be a male teacher). I would have gone too but I was going out of town the day that the teacher could meet with her so she went alone rather than waiting until the following week when I returned. She found out that the teacher thought he was trying to fit in with a new friend and adopted his lackadaisical ways about doing his homework and class participation. She flipped out. When he got home that day they had a little sit down and she set him straight. She called me to tell me what happened and I also talked to him when I got home. Problem solved; just like that.

FWIW, Mrs. j said the teacher was thrilled that she wanted to come to the school immediately because he said that until kids were about to fail he never heard from a lot of the parents.

Like I said we were lucky; it worked for us.

jmonroe

nyccarguy

Very well said Richard. I too can see through his typing how absolutely furious jmonroe is with Hyundai & the dealership regarding his wife's XG350. Luckily (or maybe not, just through his own brilliant financial planning), he didn't owe any money on the car, wasn't upside down on the car, could afford to have the car sit there while he did argue with them, he was able to move on & buy his wife another (much better IMHO) car.

Jomonroe also has a car his son (Son #2?) can use to go ice racing with over the winter when mrs. jmonroe isn't driving it during the inclement weather.

Like they say: "It could have been MUCH worse."

I'm proud of you for moving on.

nyccarguy

of 3 very young children (5, 2.5, & 2 weeks), I can say that I want my children to be happy. I'll won't push things on them in life if I see they have no interest.

stickguy

we worked under the theory that if they wanted to try something new, we would support it, but they had to commit to finishing out unless there was some significant extenuating circumstances.

so want to sign up for Band, or basketball, or softball? Sure, but you have to finish out the season before you can quit!

Sandman6472

And that was something mine were unable to do...ever! It's all I ever wanted, besides the words, "I love you", again something I never got. We never had the closure needed for true happiness, but they refused and didn't really care. It's a hard thing to realize that your folks could just cast you aside like mine did, all because they didn't approve of my life choices. I was the 1st with a full time job, 1st to get married & 1st to have kids but it wasn't enough for them. I felt sorry for them really...they loved themselves before their children...and money before themselves! Truly sad...but I had to let all that go because I am content and know that I did the right things in life...for me. And I am super proud of my kids and tell them I love them on a regular basis...I can give what I never got!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

robr2

As the Dad of a 15 YO and 12 YO all I can say is that I am proud of my kids. So far, they've made good decisions and have stuck with the committments they've made. I try to push them a bit to reach for the next rung because like all of us, we can get comfortable in our current state.

I will say though that my father-in-law once pulled me aside and told me how good I was with the kids. He noticed how I always stop whatever I'm doing when the kids ask for help. I don't follow the "not now" method of parenting.

jmonroe

And I am super proud of my kids and tell them I love them on a regular basis...I can give what I never got!

'sandy'...it takes a big person to do that.

jmonroe

fezo

Good man, Sandy. It's sad that people live like your folks did.

I'm not worried about what the kids become as long as they are happy with it.

Now when my older ones were younger people would tell me how girls are easier as little kids but that turns around come 6th or 7th grade. This I have found to be true. The younger ones are in fifth now I'm heading for it again.

I was, other than health issues, the easiest of the kids for my folks. Good thing. At one point my folks had 4 boys the oldest of which was 3. I was born two years after my older brother and 15 months later my mom had twins. Then she took 4 years off!

fezo

explorerx4

Having a 2 week old, plus 2 other young children, we are proud of you for being able to find your way here to make a post.

explorerx4

Obviously, Marney is the turkey.

robr2

Marney needs to get that stick out of her @#$ before someone pulls it out and hits over the head with it. Control issues you think??

driver100

Where not to go next Thanksgiving

I love those instructions from Marney. No B.S. there!
She'd make a good Minister of Defense, no one would argue with her.

driver100

No complaints even though I would love one of driver's feel of the road mobiles....

You never know. 16 years ago I was collecting unemployment insurance.
12 years ago I was driving a 1995 Jeep with 100k miles on it.
10 Years ago I was driving a base model Jeep Cherokee (not a limited)

I would never imagined I would be driving a BMW. Strange things happen in life. Also, I would say we were just as happy then as we are now. Everything was done on a smaller scale and we had to be happier doing simpler things, and we bought a fridge with 5 years no payments until the 5 years was up, but life was good.

And, one more thought, I enjoyed gettingmy new Jeeps just as much as I enjoyed getting the new 535. Of course, the 535 drives a lot better..

explorerx4

Did you see 'The Help'? Someone might make her a special pie.

fezo

You sound like you hit the jackpot. Too bad you are in Ontario. I could sell books just fine....

Given my medical immediate future I'm not expecting to suddenly earn that kind of money and anyone (other than Richard) who could have left me that didn't (some of that the result of the 2008 economic collapse - you couldn't have made that worse for our family - my brothers and I and my just about gone dad - if you were specifically trying to hit just us) so unless I hit on one of my small highly speculative investments (buying a lottery ticket when the pot gets huge) I'll stay about where I am. And you know what? That's fine. Everybody else in the family is healthy and I'll get through this.

Speaking of bad money situations - I've been paying my whole working life into the NJ state unemployment and disability insurance. When I had to retire I put in for disability. They now tell me that since I collect a pension that my employer paid into I make too much to qualify! That just cut my income in half. Fortunately in 13 months I'll turn 62 and can collect Social Security and things will be more or less back to where they were and in the interim I can juggle. It will give me something to do while laid up......

driver100

Did you see 'The Help'? Someone might make her a special pie.

Blah :sick:

tjc78

Did you see 'The Help'?

I enjoyed that movie. Sissy Spacek (sp?) was really funny in it. The scene with the pie is classic.

sterlingdog

"Did you see 'The Help'?"

Great movie, but best understood by those of us who grew up in the South. Though embellished to some degree, there is truth to the script. First, not everyone lived in an antibellum home, though there were 4 or 5 in each Southern town. Secondly, it is true that many children were raised by Black housekeepers. My wife certainly identified with the movie. She grew up in a home like that one, and was reared by just such a housekeeper. Though my wife's parents are dead now, the housekeeper is still living at age 96. My wife travels an hour and a half once a week to spend part of the day with her. "Ada" is a wonderful person. My wife's parents were too busy with political and social careers to give much time to my wife when she was a child. "Ada" was truly my wife's mom. When my wife was 10 years old, she put up a screaming fit at the train depot in Birmingham because they told "Ada" that she couldn't sit with my wife in the "White" train car. My wife went with her to the "Black" train car. Such were the late '40s in the South. People were shocked at our wedding. My wife had "Ada" brought in and seated in the family pew beside her mother. We wouldn't have had it any other way.

When "Ada" turned 90, my wife hosted a birthday party for her. Two hundred friends and family members attended---of all races. My wife did a tribute to her that brought tears to everyone's eyes. Each Christmas, "Ada" comes to our home for the family dinner. She has a place of honor at the head table. We've come a long way in the South during the last sixty years....but still not as far as we should.

Richard

roadburner

My parents tried hard, but they really had no clue how to deal with a child. As I grew older things got much better- with my Dad, at least. I tell people that when I have a parenting dilemma I always ask, "What would my late mother do?" Then I do the exact opposite and things always work out fine.

I must say that I'm very proud of my son; unlike many teenagers, he still enjoys spending time with me- car related events, movies, sports, and volunteering at church. I was very blessed to have a flexible work schedule so we spent a lot of time together when he was young. He loved going to the office with me(don't tell my wife how he sat next to the defendant at a felony hearing or about the time he struck up a conversation with a death row inmate).

sterlingdog

"Richard, being a teacher you might appreciate this."

I certainly do. Mrs. Jmonroe was a wise mother. As Barney used to say,"Nip in the bud." Some teachers used to dread parent conferences. I looked forward to them, and wished that more parents would come for one. Once a child realizes that their parents and teachers are on the same page, things can change pretty quickly.

To our younger fathers here, I can't stress enough how important it is these days to stay in touch with your children's schools. Talk to the teachers, principals, and school board members. Monitor homework; insist on seeing test papers; ask your children what they are studying, etc. As a former trainer of teachers, I can tell you that many are excellent; some are average; and a few shouldn't be in the classroom. Parents need to be actively involved in the schools. Attend ball games, concerts, PTA/PTO meetings, open houses, etc. Parental involvement keeps teachers and administrators on their toes. You can even make appointments to sit in on your child's classes. Assuring a good education for children is also part of the parent's responsibility. Don't just leave it up to the schools.

Richard

sterlingdog

It really warms my heart to read these wonderful posts from the fathers here. All of you are doing or have done such great things to insure that your children developed to their best potential. A little discipline, plus some freedom of choice are truly the keys to having a happy and successful child---along with expressions of love. These posts go to prove that it isn't just moms who raise the children. Fathers don't always receive the credit that they deserve. I'm proud of all of you.

Richard

roadburner

To our younger fathers here, I can't stress enough how important it is these days to stay in touch with your children's schools.

I agree 100%. That's what we did.

sterlingdog

"Sandy...it takes a big person to do that."

It also takes a big person to state it publically. I bet he is a wonderful father.

Richard

cdnpinhead

We've come a long way in the South during the last sixty years....but still not as far as we should.

Thanks for that post, Richard -- very nice.

My wife & I have seen only a few movies this year, but The Help was one of them.

28firefighter

All these posts have me excited, though not in a rush, to start my own family.

One step at a time though.