Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Absolutely. In addition to houses and cars, I have negotiated for antiques, new furniture, clothes, fresh produce, house painting, carpentry, electrical work, plumbing, window treatment materials and labor, landscaping, etc.
I think that the negotiation on the brick Georgian house at 4,000+ sq.ft. is one of my finest pieces of work. The owner started at $xxxK and, after two weeks, I had him down $120K. It is definitely a buyer's market. It probably helped that he had to buy his ex-wife a new condo and build his new wife a 7,000 sq.ft. mansion. I'm indebted to the ex-wife for doing the designer kitchen and remodeling the bathrooms before she caught her husband in bed with their neighbor's wife. That proved to be an expensive affair.
Richard
The space for a refrigerator isn't big enough for one of those french door specials or that's what I'd do next time. At least next time I'll get the pull out freezer on the bottom.
Going down to the SIL's tomorrow to, among other things, do laundry....
When we did the kitchen in January 2010 we gave it to Son #2. Just by coincidence the one that was in his basement (that came with his house) started to make some noise so that Amana is now in his basement. We bought it in December ’92 but that isn’t really that old for a fridge. The first one that we bought, a Hotpoint, when we bought our first house in ’69 was sold with our second house in ’92 when we moved to SC. The one my parents bought when they got married in 1940 out lived both of them. We just took it out of the basement and put it at the curb when my mother died in ’97. It still worked but neither I nor my two brothers wanted to deal with selling it. It was a Frigidaire and the badge said division of GM.
The Maytag fridge in our basement is still there and still has signs of the scratch but I got some appliance touch up paint so it’s not as bad as it was on the showroom floor but believe me no one would want it in their kitchen. However, it’s perfect for the basement.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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stopped at the local Ford dealer (a more old fashioned small local stand alone, more of a "mom and pop" operation). My neighbor even works there (thought he was a SM, might just be a sales guy now).
anyway, took the opportunity to scope out and drive an Edge, and experience the ecoboost engine. Both were very nice. Edge was roomy and comfortable, and drove well. Hard to get used to the big high hood though. But the engine was sweet. Did not feel like a 2.0l at all. Sounded good, pulled hard. And 21-30 mpg ratings on that relatively big heavy beast was impressive. Really looking forward to trying out the upcoming escape with the 1.6l version. A FWD one of those is probably going to be rated at more like 25/34? And should be plenty powerful.
the last 1.6l engine I had was I think my 1985 Colt (maybe that was a 1.5l, and my 1986 Mazda 323 was 1.6l?) In any case, the mazda was peppy. The colt was a dog.
Plan to take the wife out later to stop at Hyundai and Toyota to use those coupons. And buy dog food (right next to Hyundai dealer!)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
1) Ford dealer seemed to have a much larger stock than a year or 2 ago. Lot was pretty much full, and last time I wandered around there it was 1/2 empty.
2) CCB lives. While I was browsing on the showroom floor, I overheard a salesguy on speakerphone using the hyundai motor credit automated phone system to get a payoff amount. On a 2011 model. Saw it outside (UCM was checking it out) and it was a nice looking (if you like baby blue) Elantra 4 door. That they owed 15.7K on. And I am real curious how much they paid for it, and what the trade in offer was going to be!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Seems we are getting pretty good at picking up property in distress sales.
* We got one house at a really good price because the owner was 84 and he had a 36 year old girlfriend. He owned a condo, but he wanted to sell the house, his adult children were renting from him, because his new girlfriend insisted he buy a condo in Florida.
*The next house we got at a good price because the couple were separated and wanted to sell quickly. The real estate agent figured this out because there was only men's clothes in the closet....we learned the rest of the story later.
*Our current house was sold just when prices fell after the big bust in the USA. Prices here fell about 10% for awhile but have recovered and have gone about 10% higher. Although we got about 10% for the house we were selling, this one was worth more so we actually saved a lot more because of the dip.
*The house in Florida had to be sold quickly by the owner. She was carrying on with a husband who lives in the gated community. They decided to run off....they sure couldn't live in the community any more.
Always a good way to buy...take advantage of others misfortune.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Had to go way back to find that one. I don't want to get into a heated debate, but the subject came up with friends, so I just present it here as something to think about.
Fezo, if you were having your operation done in Canada, and you were a citizen of course, 100% of your medical expenses would be paid for.
The U.S.A. has the largest health expenditure per capita of any country. Cost in 2007 was about $7400. Cost in Canada about $3800, almost half.
I think this can be explained partly by the fact that since health care is regulated, doctors, hospitals etc can only charge a certain amount.
Not presenting this to argue. Just something to think about.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ok, thinking of the 2012 Acura tl. I see the tmv is listed as 33689 for a base. Then I look under incentives and see the is cash to dealer of 1750 on this.
As I have read that typical discount is in the area of 8%, I assume this that is how it came down from list to the TMV number.
Do I now deduct$1750 as a dealer offer starting point, or is this somehow built in?
Hate to start off negotiations looking real stupid.
Do I make them aware I saw the dealer to cash incentives to indicate where I came up wth my price?
Thank you for your input.
I was asking about his Subaru purchase, not the Hyundai.
anyway, drove a Highlander. Lots of features. Big. seemed barge like actually. Wife drove, and did not car for it. Felt trucky, and a bit ponderous. Neither one of us cared for it. also lousy MPG.
She did feel that the rav 4 was a good size. Did not like style of the rear door, but size wise was OK.
stopped at Honda. Pilot was too big, but she liked the CRV (just sat in, no drive). Again, size wise seemed good, and the "hondaness" felt comfortable to her.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Oh yeah, forgot the weirdest thing. They had a Camry SE on the floor. All loaded up. I liked it. A lot. Great seats (combo leather/microsuede). Didn't drive it though. did discuss with Wife the concept of getting a sedan for normal use, though that would mean either keeping the van as the 2nd car, or getting something useful as my next car.
25/35 MPG was very attractive. Plus cheaper than an SUV with close to the same goodies.
anyway, last stop was Hyundai. Drove a Santa Fe (which my wife liked from looking at the auto show brochure). THis one she really liked. Comfortable, right size, drove well, etc. She was particularly fond of the seat belt, since it didn't cut into her neck.
So if pushed to buy something right now, that is probably what she would pick.
I still want to see the new escape when it comes out soon. I have high hopes for that. And if I was to get the santa fe, most likely would wait until the new model showed up, and either go with that or try to snag a left over 2012 when they have to clear them out.
I actually like the more sedate, old fashioned styling on the santa fe (in and out). More practical, and not so overdone. Must be my old age talking.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
In addition to the Ford Escape you mentioned, the brand new Mazda CX-5, Chevy Equinox, Kia Sorrento, Subaru Outback and Subaru Forester, may be worth investigating, too. The vehicle class is loaded with great options these days. Have fun!
The equinox is a non starter to me. I also did not care much for the Sorrento. Do plan to look at the mazda at some point. Might check out the outback, but I don't think the forrester is going to be a player.
but you are right, lots of interesting options. And the Rav is not something I would consider now, but quite possibly a redesign could be.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Where have I hear that before?
You are as fickle as I am on such matters though I am making no money test driving. I don't know if that's a geography thing or what but no one is offering me deals to go test.
Fortunately my health insurance here will cover all the costs of actual medical treatment. The prescriptions will be an issue but as I understand they are an issue in Canada as well. I have separate prescription coverage (regular insurance takes care of it while I am in the hospital but after that it goes to the prescription plan). The prescription plan for retirees is nothing at all like the one when I was working. Much higher copays and we don't know that they'll cover a lot of expensive oddball drugs. They love to deny anything not in their mail order pharmacy. This will be an issue.
That said, I was on a $7,500 a month drug that the plan declined. When that happened the doctor's office applied to the company and got me the drug for free. Whew!
No idea where the Toyota offer came from. I haven't owned anything of theirs in 6 years, or been to a dealer in ages. So it showed up out of the blue, unless they somehow bought the info from Ford (or Subaru. I signed up there also, but they just sent a coupon for $250 off if I bought one).
will be interesting to see though if using a couple generates more. certainly hope so!
Oh, and my wife isn't as fickle. She will figure out what she wants fairly quickly (type of vehicle) and after that, has no trouble eliminating options and getting down to what she wants to buy.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My wife is ridiculously easy to car shop for. Just find out the things she really likes, stay away from brands that for one reason or other she doesn't trust and after that it's a piece of cake.
Unless I completely lose patience with the Grand Caravan it'll be a few years before we're in the market again, and if we're still Waverunner owners at that point, then we'll need something with more towing capacity.
I was a compact crossover owner, though, a CR-V that provided rock solid reliability and great gas mileage. The AWD system was just so-so, highway noise was high, and power above 40 MPH was pretty dismal. All those negatives were outweighed by the positives, though, and I look back fondly on that little ute.
If I were looking for an automatic, then the Outback would be at the top of my list followed by the Mazda. If a stick was an option, then the Forester would look pretty good, but I'm not a fan of the 4-speed auto in that model. Next year the Forester should get the CVT and make for a much better coupling to the 2.5 4-cylinder. The Outback should also get the revised 4-cylinder next year with a timing chain and MPG bump. 2013 will bring a couple of nice changes to the Subaru lineup.
it also helps to have nailed down the type/size category. really cuts down on the choices.
one thing that she loved about the hyundai (as in, a reason to pick it)? the seatbelt rode low enough that it did not cut into her neck. One of the only cars that worked for her in that way.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Details like that can make a HUGE impact on day-to-day satisfaction. No matter how a car handles or how rich it feels inside, if the seat belt constantly chafes your neck you're going to be unhappy. My buddy is just the opposite with a very tall upper body (he actually has an extra vertebrae), so 90% or more of the cars out there don't work for him because of low roof lines. My hockey skates were a similar deal; I have very narrow feet, and only one skate could be custom ordered to fit, so regardless of cost, style, and feel, that was the skate for me. It fit. That was enough.
I'll not be shopping for her for a long time (we are actually probably set for cars for us for quite a while). She isn't one that gets new car fever and since her car gets a lot of work miles she's perfectly happy in her Camry which I'll be surprised if it doesn't make 200K. No timing belt either!
Funny thing. My Solara has the factory nav . The other day when I start it before the map came up (which you have to agree to by touching a screen button EVERY time) it comes on and tells me I need an air filter and gives me the name and phone number of the dealer where it was originally purchased!
I can't imagine it's any problem on teh air filter (I haven't looked yet) so I'll go pick one up and put it in.
I will get her in to look at them though. We also aren't in any hurry, and aren't likely to do anything before the very end of this year (and depending on finances, April 2013!).
After seeing the Camry, I am starting to think that something like that might be a good idea. better mileage, cheaper (than a comparable compact SUV equipment wise).
the only real issue is the occasional time I need something to handle bulky cargo, and the 2x a year that we load up the van and travel. the trip to the shore I can fake by taking 2 cars, and my wife might just have to learn to pack light for Christmas!
or, I keep the van as the 2nd car (not that I want to), but I suppose I could also ditch that as planned, get a nice sedan (even a Bimmer!) and then make sure the car I get for myself (to replace the Volvo when it gets passed down) is some kind of wagon-style (little SUV, or what I really want, a small wagon).
so many decisions! and of course, if I expand the options, it will confuse the wife!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As I have read that typical discount is in the area of 8%, I assume this that is how it came down from list to the TMV number.
Edmunds TMV is the AVERAGE price that people pay in your area. If you put your area code in the box when you checked the TMV price then that price is the AVERAGE for your area. I have ALWAYS done better than the TMV price and by hundreds of dollars at least.Pretty close to a grand, twice.
Do I make them aware I saw the dealer to cash incentives to indicate where I came up wth my price?
The trunk money is money that the dealer may choose to share with you but I for one don’t care what he WANTS to do. If I see that trunk money is available I go after it and I don’t bother mentioning it either. He knows he has it and you know he has it so why talk about it; just get as much of it as you can. Be prepared to wait it out, it’s way early in the month so unless you have hot pants for this car, wait for a call back with a better offer.
You shouldn’t spend more than 30 minutes to get the deal you want and that is on the long side as far as I’m concerned. Do your homework and don’t make it harder than it is. The dealer wants to sell a car and you want to buy his car so when both of you are reasonable the sale should happen.
And do us a favor let us know how you did. You may employ a strategy that we would want to use in the future. Regardless of what the regulars say around here we don’t know everything.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
*Just this year alone in Florida, one fellow we know was golfing, and his hand went numb, dropped his club, couldn't move.
Took him to the hospital. Was there over night..it was a small stroke (called TMA or something). Bill was...for one night.....$12000. Fortunately he had insurance, but if he goes to Florida again, he won't be covered for that.
*One lady had heart problems. Insurance company put her on an executive jet and flew her back to Canada.....put her in a hospital here. Costs less than going into a hospital in U.S.
You are fortunate to have insurance. THere is no reason why a person in Canada can't go to have an annual check up by a doctor...there is no cost. Yet, in the U.S. many don't go because they don't want to pay for it.
The thing to think about is your health cost per capita is almost double. If it wasn't...I wouldn't even mention this.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Then a message will come up, "You are cheating...take car to dealer for air filter right now - none of those cheap filters allowed!"
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now you are talking!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Could someone answer cu503?
Just a guess, but, in my opinion, I would deduct the $1750 from $33689. Then I would start at 5 or 6% off of that price.
Or even better, go in, sit down with a salesman, and let him write up the possible order. You will get an idea of how honest he is by seeing if he takes off the $1750 on his own....and then see what kind of discount he offers after that.
If it was me, I would write down 5 or 6% below that.
You can also go on price you should pay, on Edmunds. If you don't know how ask...and someone will help I am sure.
Let us know how you do.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Invoice
- MSRP*2%
- $1,750
=Your offer
The 2% is supposedly the holdback, and given the low demand for Acura at present, I'd be asking for both the holdback and dealer incentive. I'd then allow for a little negotiation, like keeping their holdback, but I'd walk out of the dealership if I didn't get Invoice minus the $1,750.
That's just me. There are a bunch of negotiating tactics, but the most important tactic is being educated and knowing what you are and are not willing to pay.
-Ty
And on top of that, don't negotiate a price only to have them add on a "document fee" or "prep fee" at the end on top of the negotiated amount. In FL that's reported to be typically $699.
Here in Ohio the wording the dealers got into the state law says they "may" charge. Dealers try to tell you it's mandatory or they could be sued for charing one person and not another. Horse manure.
My last purchase they tried to include the doc fee with the tax and title at the end. I had been negotiating to add on only the title fee. I had the printout of the state law (ORC, Ohio Revised Code). It says the documentation fee is only for "time payment" sales. It's meant to be a cost recovery for handling the loan papers. The salesman knew he had a hot one when I whipped out my printoffs and I could interpret the true language.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Excellent point! I would also add to go in well armed knowing what your trade in is worth. Look this up on Edmunds for get used car value on line. You can see what one's like yours retail for and knock off $1500 or more depending on cost to pu it on sale.
What you really want to know is what they are charging for the new car (and you need to know what your target price is), what they will give you for the trade in (be well armed with a price in mind), and then what the difference will be, including taxes, dealer prep etc. Then if you are financing through the dealer I would look at those numbers very carefully, make sure what the interest rate is, term of the payments etc.
You can always take the copy of the invoice with you and let us know what the salesman has calculated.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree. Be sure to know values, but the end result, the bottom line for the check from your credit union or bank account is what is important. They manipulate trade-in values to make people think because they give a larger value it's a better deal. But they over-price (under-discount) the new car price.
On the bottom line thing, when the salesman pulled the $250 document fee after I had cleaerly negotiated for title costs only, I pulled out my copy of the ORC and with it some pages of Cobalts at a Chevy store farther away, he knew I could walk. OTOH, I was there with checkbook in hand, so the deal wouldn't be squashed by financing difficulties from them or a bank or CU. I had let him see that I had other similar vehicles on the ground and I had all Saturday afternoon to shop. I told him I'd allow a $50 to $100 cost and they could make the paper say whatever they want, but I didin't believe the crap that they could be sued therefore they had to charge everyone the extra fee.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
How about the VW Tiguan?
I never bought that argument either. If they could be sued for that, why couldn't they be sued for charging different prices for the actual cars?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As for annual physicals, I pay $20 co-pay and my insurance pays the rest. It's a good deal---and I select the physician that I want. I'm sure that you like the Canadian system, and I'm sure that it has its advantages. Still, our system also works well---plus, we definitely pay for those who have no insurance. In addition, our taxes aren't as high as yours because someone has to pay for Socialized medicine. That is fine if the people want to do that; I prefer not to.
Richard
This doesn't fit with the stories of people not being treated rapidly who would benefit because they are lower on priority list due to age, e.g.
My surgeon is a Canadian or originally from Canada, he's not been clear. He was dead against the socialized medicine of Obama. He talked about the case of his father being forced, in Canada, to live in a 4-man ward in a nursing facility even though he could have paid for a single room and each of his 4 children are professionals who would have helped him. But he was not allowed to have a higher level of care.
Also, why do we have so many people coming from Canada to the US for specialized medical care?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That was the thing. The U.S. has the largest health expenditure per capita in the world at $7400 per person. Next was Switerland at $4000.
I would prefer a free market system too, and I could understand why you prefer it.........but look what you are paying to have it. Cost for Canadians for health care was $3800 per person, and every one is covered.
Not argueing...just something to think about.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think Fezo would receive similar care in Canada.
There is a waiting list, but if people need something done it will be done immediately.
There are some specialized things that people need looked after, and they could go to a clinic or doctor who specializes in the U.S.
Very rare someone would be forced to be in a 4 person ward...unusual situation.
I am not saying our care or our situation is better. I am just saying, it is something to think about....the U.S. is the only civilized country without a medicare program, and the costs are almost double the next highest country. I am not pushing socialized medicine, and I am not necessarily a fan of Obama. It just came up in a conversation and I thought it was interesting.
By the way, car manufacturers like to locate in Canada because they don't have to pay for for medical insurance...that is a benefit of socialized medicine. Just thoughts...no comments necessary.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I like hearing and learning. Some of your information doesn't match what was being said here. The doctor mentioned varied waiting times based on age and likelihood of efficacy of the treatment for that person's condition. I'll ask hiim more when I make my annual pilgrimage.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Unless someone is considering expatriation , what is there to think about?
:confuse:
Heck, it's not like when they decided I needed the transplant that they set it right up. We're more than 6 months since that decision was made. I met a guy in the waiting room a couple of weeks ago and he got almost an immediate transplant because if they waited he'd have died. Things happen. For my eyes I can call my retina guy on no notice with a problem and he'll see me. Without that immediate need there's like a two month wait.
I do remember that the Canadian courts ruled that you can go around the system on your own dime. There are go around the system doctors. There are ones here as well - ones that will see you sooner, spend more time with you and such but you pay at time of visit and must present no paperwork for their office to complete.
Anyway, I plan to make $75 test-driving a Ford($50) and a Kia($25). If the salespersons ask what I'm looking to buy I'm going to tell them I want something RWD that packs at least 300 bhp, weighs under 3500 pounds, has three pedals, and won't have its warranty voided by a few non-competitive track weekends. In any event, I'm wishing/hoping/praying that BMW North America decides to import the M135i hatch:
If they do, I'll be the first to place an order.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I believe that you are right.....waiting times can vary, depending on age, situation, number of people needing treatment. Hip and knees are becoming populat these days so waiting times can take longer. The system is over utilized and is not perfect. Costs are soaring and the population is aging.
I was surprised that the US health care costs are so much more, and yet it covers fewer people. Not saying one system is better than the other.
Check the fact: Health care cost per capita 2010
I'm like you, just asking questions, trying to learn something.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, if I was an American, I would like to know why I pay almost double for medical care, and many people don't even have medical coverage. I am not sure socialized system is the better system, but paying twice as much isn't a great alternative.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Our system is not ideal. I would like to see a partial payment made for doctor or hospital visits, even a token amount so people don't see a doctor every week for minor things.
Just thoughts.....
And, Fezo, I am so glad you have insurance, but can you imagine if you didn't have insurance? You would have to come up with a few $100k.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's why we pay double.... the people without insurance coverage get their medical care for free...
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I'd be screwed if I did not have the insurance. I am sure I long ago passed the half a $100K cost and may have broken $100K and I'm not in the hospital yet! If you count the transfusions which are just biding time treatment they go for close to $1,500 a pop and I get a procrit shot every week at $1,800.
An old colleague had a brain aneurism while she was still working but then had to have a follow up after she retired. The follow up procedure cost $6K and the doctor's office had failed to tell her that in the interim they had dropped out of health insurance's network. When she said she didn't have a loose $6K around they said make an offer. She said $1K and they said fine.