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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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That would probably suit me a little better. I prefer not to feel everything about the road, but still have good control.
But what I like, is that you and the distaff member of your family were willing to try different cars. And you found something that you loved. An open mind has gone a long way for you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ahh, maybe it is normal. Maybe there is a logical reason it is that way. It was more of an issue for my wife than for me, I just thought as you found out, I will get used to it.
The problem is, it makes the engine race, because you are pressing down on the gas, but the clutch doesn't respond for awhile. Maybe they are trying to dissuade you from getting a manual. That might make sense. They charge you the same for 2012 or 2013 if you get a manual or an automatic. Audi gives you a $1000 break. Also, my beautiful 2008 328 Cabriolet took a while for them to sell, the used car salesman said lots of people loved the car, they just passed it up when they saw it was a manual.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I appreciate the points you made. Just remember though, we both noticed it....she is more of a perfectionist than I am so I allow for a lot more if it isn't quite right. But, more important, we both found the Audi was perfect. And my previous 328 was never a problem....I truly have never noticed that problem in any other car.
But, maybe it is a natural thing in a new car, and we are getting lazier, or more particular.
If any one else has an opinion I would be glad to hear it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks for the wishes and I am glad you commented, those thoughts are meaningful for me. They didn't have an A4 manual to test drive so we had to drive the coupe to see how the manual handled....I didn't check but I guess it must have been an A5. We were so surprised at the way it handled...what you said is exactly what we thought...fun and sporty and not too harsh.
That reliability is good to know too. I like the Audi extended warranty program, because you can take it out as long as you do it before the 48k miles or 4 years are up. I would never buy an EW until the warranty was up...I have no idea if I want to keep the car that long.
One friend bought an EW for $1800 for a Fusion when he bought the car. He put more miles on it than the warranty was good for within the first 3 years. He spent $1800 for nothing.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks GG. We enjoyed driving it so much we are really excited about getting it. Unfortunately, it won't be in until late August or early September
My wife says another bmw would have been nice, but not as exciting as an all together different car. I am so glad she is really looking forward to it. She appreciates a good car and has always worked hard to get the things she wants.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thank you for the information, I couldn't go to a better authority on this matter. I have driven a lot of manuals, most pretty crappy cars, but, I have never had a clutch that just didn't seem to feel right.
I'll take that as the difinitive answer, and thanks to every one for your comments and thoughts.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0a892/14273!keywords=#MSG14273
To be fair, I would have bought the bmw 335 if they took my offer, which I think was fair. I wanted $3500 more for my trade, but in the end if they reduced what I would pay by $1500 I would have bought the BMW.
When they didn't take my offer because they could buy a similar 2008 335 for $20000 at the BMW auction we just decided to see what the Audi dealer would say about the trade in. We tried it and liked it, the fact it was a lot less money was a great bonus.
I would agree though, it is a smart idea to test something out of your own comfort zone...you just never know.
The Audi is less firm, more comfortable, softer ride, but it still has the feel of the road. It is a good compromise for people looking for a car for more mature drivers. You definitely feel like you are engaged in the driving experience, just doing it with a bit more comfort.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Use it well.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0a892/14273!keywords=#MSG14273
Great car...and great transaction!
If any one is checking that page on luxo cars......go down a ways to see actual pictures of that beauty.
One thing I really like is that flat bottom steering wheel. They put it in the S-Line model as well, unfortunately it won't be in our Premium Plus model.
Great car....doesn't get much better than that!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That is good to know! Much appreciated comment.
I wish the flat bottom steering wheel was an option.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If that was my school bus I would say the clutch is out of adjustment. The only other manual I have experience with is in my van which starts to engage 1/3 to half way up.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Is your van a bmw?
From what roadburner says clutches should engage from the bottom, and both of our standard cars do that, and the Audi certainly did that. I don't think it is a normal BMW problem....I think that car needed an adjustment.
If anyone is interested in what that flat steering wheel is like, this is how it looks.....I'd love for them to put one in our A4 - comes with R8 and S-Line model.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Wow, that is a stunner. I expect to not get the complete truth when talking to most car salesmen but that does make his answer complete BE!
Wouldn't it be better if he said, "Maybe if the clutch isn't operating correctly that particular car needs an adjustment...if you buy it and you don't like it we will make sure it will be satisfactory". Although I really like this particular salesman, I don't think I can trust him 100% any more because of his answer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
So, my point is these internal auctions really work against the consumer. The dealer can easily use it as a tool to offer you a lower price. Even more reason to go in well armed, or at least compare a few dealers before going in.
Once again, is it unethical? No, some would say all is fair in love and war. I think it is a slimey, deceitful act, that is just another tool dealers will use to boost their bottom line. The lesson I learned is go in well armed....and another trick might be to change brands when it is time for a new car.......that puts you in a stronger bargaining position.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The last time I traded a car was 1999. The auction game always rubbed me wrong since they only reviewed scant detail on the vehicles recently sold. Condition and service history were unknown. Auctions allow for little inspection, creating risk, but a trade-in permits a thorough examination of the vehicle and its service records. With less risk on a trade-in, why should the numbers be the same between the two?
So, since I keep my vehicles in pristine condition, I have little trouble selling them on my own. Yes, I know there's tax implications, but dealers are out to profit many thousands on a trade-in, and the tax benefits never come close to bridging the difference between a trade evaluation and what I can sell it for on my own.
We're about to undertake some dramatic life changes involving a move to Colorado for work, and with it selling one of our three vehicles, a VW Jetta Wagon. I haven't even decided to sell it, but 4 people have all asked to be first in line. The question is, do I trust a VW to not sour a relationship with a friend (probably not) :P
That gave me an idea! I know it is unlikely, but I emailed the sales manager to see if Audi would consider putting an S-Line steering wheel in our car as an option. They might be able to do it at the factory.
Although, I like the S-Line, it costs a lot more, but the seats are highly bolstered making getting in and out a lot more difficult, and it has summer high performance tires so they have to be changed in the winter. Personally, not what I want to do.
If they don't do it I might consider going that route...doing it from an indie shop, but I don't know if it is worth the risk playing around with airbags.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you can do it and want to do it ty then I am all for it. On a $24000 car I would need a minimum of $27000 for it, and that is getting close to the lot price, possibly with a warranty. Then, there is all the paperwork, test drives, dealing with flakes and time wasters, and the biggest problem.....timing.
That Jetta wagon sounds nice.....I love the styling of those....the design is a great one for making a nice looking wagon. I agree though, nothing could ruin a friendship faster than selling a car that acts up right after you sell it. I wouldn't be as concerned if it was a Toyota or Lexus.
Good luck with the move to Colorodo....sounds like it should be quite an adventure.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I would have been the first to walk away. When I was looking for used cars, years ago, if I looked in the window and saw three pedals I was on to the next car. I did my share of driving a stick way back, not anymore. There will never be a three pedal machine in my garage.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
There is something wrong here. I live in PA and drove to Ohio to get my last 2 cars (Genny in ’09 and Subie in ’12). You live in Ohio and drive to Illinois to get your car. I guess cars are greener across the border going west.
Congrats on getting that nice car. It looks and sounds like it was worth the trip.
Enjoy and keep the revs down for another 300 miles or so like that’s going to happen. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The VW has been my around-town ride, a project vehicle I picked up after the previous owner couldn't solve an electrical gremlin (SHOCKER; on a VW no less
Thanks with the well wishes. It was a tough decision as I truly love all that Utah has to offer, but the promotion was generous and my wife and daughter are supportive. So, off we go to experience new adventures. The first may be a wildfire. You know that mountain wildfire that's been reported in the news for two weeks? Yeah, that's our new home, or at least very close to it. We'll have to add "smoke damage" to the inspection list when home shopping.
I’m not so sure I’d like that wheel but it sounds as though I like everything else about those cars. So, if I was in that market it wouldn’t matter.
Since you like the flat bottom, you’d have been giddy with some of the Chrysler products back in the 50’s (I think) maybe early 60’s. They were rectangular with rounded corners. However, that design never caught on.
Now go out on the internet and find a pic of one. I know they existed.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
TY....no matter what car I've tried to trade, it's always either going to auction, traded away to another dealer, is the wrong color, has the wrong options, sits too high, or sits too low, isn't very popular, etc, etc.
I can't figure out where the used cars are coming from that sits on a new dealer's lot if none of the cars I've tried to trade fits in with their "ideal" used car.
I think I know the mixed feelings you and the family probably went through about making the move. We moved to SC in March ’92 and moved back to the Burgh in July ’97. It was easier for us, I guess. Son #1 had already finished at Penn State and Son # 2 was finishing his sophomore year at Penn State. Still we anguished about the move. Those offers can be pretty good when they want them to be. Like car shopping I didn’t bite on the first one but then they wore me down.
Good luck and let us know how you like it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My, my, aren't we the snob. :P
I would think clutch engagement works the same way in both BMWs and school buses. Neither should have to be let out all the way before they catch.
Once, on the bus the clutch was so out of wack that even when the pedal was fully let out it slipped as I drove. The mechanic crawled under the bus and within 5 minutes he has adjusted it so it worked properly. I always wanted to
ask him if you could do that with a car."
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ah come on....you could probably use the exercise.
That's one thing my wife never worries about, is resale value. If she liked it, she would buy a one bedroom house and would never worry about that it would be almost impossible to sell one day.
She wants things exactly as she likes them, and will deal with it when the time comes. I would rather look to the future and compromise...one reason I got a 535 instead of a 550 is because a 550 would probably be a hard car to get rid of in 4 or 5 years from now.
There is no right or wrong answer, just depends on your philosophy of life.
But, you should try a manual, 6 speeds are a lot of fun, you may actually like it. It made the Audi a real blast to drive.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, since you asked:
And yes, I remember those square steering wheels...it was offered as an option. I think the flat spot on the bottome wouldn't affect turning at all, and it gives more room for sliding in and out.
Since you are a DIYer, I thought you were going to explain some way I could use a vice grip and a hammer and wrench to convert a round steering wheel into one with a flat spot....kinda like Red Green.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
ask him if you could do that with a car."
I am not very mechanical, but I think the answer is probably no...otherwise it would only cost about $25 to repair a clutch. I am sure it will be closer to $500 at the bmw shop.
Actually, it wasn't that snobbish to ask if your van was a bmw. I was just reading that Mercedes is becoming a big seller of vans in North America.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I knew you could do it.
Since you are a DIYer, I thought you were going to explain some way I could use a vice grip and a hammer and wrench to convert a round steering wheel into one with a flat spot....kinda like Red Green.
Vice grips and hammers are way over rated. When you want to change the shape of a steering wheel I’d go with a hack saw and duct tape with a nice color and texture for grip. :P
As for trying a stick, no it’s not for me. I know how they operate and I try to stay clear of them. Like when Son #1 bought his ’95 Trans Am track car in the spring of ’09. He had to work on me for a few days before I relented. Finally, I drove it for a few miles and it brought back all the memories I wanted to forget. The car was fast and shifted nicely and that’s why he wanted it. He was satisfied I drove it, I wasn’t and that was the last time I drove it.
About 2 years ago he replaced the original clutch and fly wheel with some upgraded competition brand. He wanted me to drive it to compare it to the stock version. I got out of that by saying I couldn’t remember how the original was so I’d be a poor judge of the upgrade. I just don’t like them.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What some people won't do to get their hands on a bmw.......
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They're always higher on the new side, and low ball on the trade side. Plus, they really don't like the way I buy vehicles (one offer).
Truth told, I can see me buying in Chicago again when/if the need arises. They have a lot more dealerships of any particular brand I'd want. They seem to be much more competitive, not only on price, but customer service, too.
There was a $4K swing in the deal the GF and I made in Chicago vs what we could have done locally. That was well worth our trip, and the effort we made.
GF noticed a minor glitch in the stereo on the S4. It's supposed to be able to record CDs onto it's hard drive. To me, no big deal as I stream from my iPhone most of the time with my tunes, or Pandora. That part works great.
She took the S4 to the Audi dealer closest to our home. They said they would have to get permission to fix it since it was expensive to fix. Huh? It's brand new. It's under warranty. They need permission to fix it?
Again, this is just another example of why we don't support the local dealer group.
When I lived in Toronto many years ago I had a theory and it went like this;
Buy new cars in a big city where there is fierce competition amonst dealers.
Buy used cars in a smaller town where the cars aren't driven as hard, and where cars don't sell as quickly....therefore they are less expensive. I also think a small town dealer has to sell good used cars or word will spread quickly, whereas in the big city there are always new potential customers and not as much loyalty to a dealer.
I am not sure if it is a fact, but I have found it works that way.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Again, this is just another example of why we don't support the local dealer group.
It sounds like your local Audi dealership is a snake just like my local Hyundai dealership. I’m still convinced that if I took the XG350 that blew up to the guy across town, where I bought the ’06 Sonata LX that was traded for the Genny, they would not have found a reason to get out of a warranty engine replacement. They have a much better reputation, I know that for sure. The main reason why I go to this local snake is because they are just so convenient. When the XG350 blew up, the local guy was not even 2 miles away from the gas station that Mrs. j limped in to when she heard the noise from the rod going through the block.
As for fixing the stereo, it should be a box swap under warranty like you said, no questions asked. FWIW, it took my local guy two tries to “fix” the stereo in the Genny. What they did the first time was turn it on and it worked even though I told them that it would probably work when they tried it because I knew it was an intermittent problem. The next time I took it to them right from work when it was not working and I didn’t shut it off so they could see the problem for themselves vs. the ole garbage statement on the service sheet, “could not duplicate the customers problem”. Well no shxx, I told you that when I dropped it off. The second time they replaced the unit and guess what problem solved.
Sometimes I think that dealers try to get out of doing warranty work because that might be a negative reflection on them from the company and maybe they will lose some kind of a bonus or other preferential treatment.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I appreciate the moral support, and I'll be sure to post an update after the move. I'm expecting a land filled with Subaru Outbacks like we find in Utah (good in the snow and popular around campuses).
Not a theory, *driver, but a fact! Here in Southeast Florida (home of AutoNation's National Headquarters in Ft. Lauderdale area), we have the biggest dealers in the country for Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Volkswagen, Audi, to name a few. Snowbirds from up north always buy their cars in the above brands down here because you can get the best deals from #1 dealerships at the end of the month when they are trying to meet quotas and remain in first place for their brand.
We also have lots of #2 dealerships trying to be #1 where you get fantastic deals, as well. I bought my Lexus GS350 at invoice at the end of the month from a dealership trying to get to #1. The deal was better than from the #1 close to home.
I can understand why people will travel several hundred miles to save thousands in Chicago - a huge marketplace for new cars (used to live there). So whenever you want to get the best pricing on a new vehicle, go to the biggest dealerships at the end of the month where volume is more important!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Case in point, my BMW dealer, Jake Sweeney, has been exemplary. I know some on these boards don't like them. But, for me, they've been wonderful. When I first bought my BMW, it had a slick iPhone interface using BMW specific apps. It was an option on my MSRP sticker....that was a separate charge.
Well, as this turned out, the BMW Apps weren't quite ready for prime time. In addition, downloading them, locked up my phone.
What did my dealer do? Instead of waiting on some explanation from BMW, they issued me a check, not only for the option, but to buy a new iPhone (which isn't cheap when you're not renewing a contract). They said they'd deal with BMW for reimbursement.
THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!
Whenever I'm passing by, if they're not busy, they'll hand wash my car for me, whether I'm there for service or not.
It's these little things that make for repeat customers. The local Audi dealer (Joseph Auto Group) who also owns Chevy, Infiniti, Cadillac, etc local stores, have always been difficult to deal with. High bucks for their new cars, low balls on my used trades (and I keep them pristine....I don't trade junk). Their service is mediocre, at best. That's why I've never been able to make a deal with them.
The Chicago dealers? They were clammoring to be able to earn my business. The local Audi place.....not at all. Even their selection was puny.
Don't know if I'll ever buy a car in South Florida, but makes perfect sense that the competition would be more akin to what I found in Chicago.
Why is it that people think that every other car in Colorado is a Subaru?
On my block (starter homes priced around $200K), here are the cars at the houses around me:
Hyundai Sonata
Chrysler 300
Dodge Ram 2500
Honda Accord
Pontiac Grand Am
Honda Civic
Honda Pilot
Mazda Miata
Jeep Grand Cherokee
AFAIK, there is only one Subaru on the block (Forester). And I live at 6200' elevation.
Ty, where in Colorado are you headed?
I agree that customer service plays a major role on repeat customer purchases, however there is a point of diminishing returns. Great customer service takes a back seat to pricing when one can save thousands at a competing dealership across town. One must weigh the pro's and con's of cost vs. service, which I know you agree with.
Would I buy another Lexus from the same dealership even though the service department sucks? Probably not! But if I could save two or three thousand dollars by going back to that same dealership? Maybe, but to me, being honest and up front with me as a customer is more important than cost - but not to all consumers.
My philosophy is simple - if you are happy with your dealership you should stay at that dealership, unless there is good reason to end that relationship. Whether I will purchase another Lexus is questionable - it all depends on what the 2014/15 Mercedes looks like and what it has to offer. Same is true for BMW and Audi.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I've been happy with dealers who also provided the best price. I've been disappointed with dealers who insist on the highest prices paid.
In your example, you decided to change it up a bit from your normal Benz experience by going to Lexus. You are/were disappointed (somewhat)....but mostly with the dealership.
I think most, if not all, of us are willing to understand that these are complex mechanical, electrical, technological products we're driving around. There's bound to be issues.
What separates the good dealer from the mediocre dealership is how they handle those issues.
In my estimation, a good deal on the purchasing end is just the beginning. I would think those dealerships not only wants you to come back to buy again, but that you'll get your service work done there, too. Falling down on warranty work, and being adversarial and/or non-competitive in the purchase process is the absolute wrong way to do that.
Curious to see the delta between you big spenders and cheapskates.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
I would definitely try the Audi. I have trouble recommending any car because every one looks for different things that are important to them.
My wife said she liked the A4 more than the 3 Series for these reasons;
*The clutch worked perfectly,
*For reverse on the manual you have to push down on the shifter-less chance of a mistake.
*The seats go up higher than any car she has been in
*The windows are large and the sight lines are much better
*She likes the interior more, though simpler that is the style she prefers,
*The garage door opener comes with that model, you don't have to buy $3500 worth of options she doesn't need to get the opener,
*Seats are more comfortable,
*Has normal tires, not RFTs.
Saving $11000 over the 328 and $16000 over the 335 which I put an offer on is just a nice bonus.
I don't recommend the A4 is the car for ever one, but, I would say if you are looking for a car in that market, it is worth checking. And, although I think my 5er is as good as a car can be (for me), I will be testing an A6 and A4 before I would get another 5er.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Using $5,000 as a spread just wouldn't make sense to me, given that the used vehicle isn't offering that big depreciation factor as an impetus to buy.
$7,500 spread? I'd have to think about that one. It depends on the car, I suppose.
You're right about one thing, used car prices are strong right now. You may have to keep reminding the dealer you're wanting to trade with about that fact. Your used car trade should be worth more to them than it perhaps was 4-5 years ago.
You have an interesting conundrum ti! My opinions about trucks would not be of any value to you, though I read both posts and I understand your assessment of the trucks you are considering.
I don't know if U.S. News rankings would help;
truck rankings
On the question about new vs used. I tend to prefer new because I think that you don't save a lot buying used when you factor in the best miles have been driven by someone else. If you average out your cost of ownership over 4, 5 6 or 10 years I don't think it costs much more to drive a new vehicle. Having said that, I think in my mind, that if you can get a very good used vehicle at a good price, it is definitely worth considering.
I place the life of a vehicle as maybe 100000 miles. So, when I see a car with 30000 miles on it (1/3 of it's life is used up-the best part by the way), but they are selling it for 20% or 25% lower than what a new one costs, I think it is definitely better to buy new. I use that as my guideline....the used car has to give me a quality of life and value, that is equivalent to the cost of buying new.
Personally, I have never been sorry that I bought a new car over a used car, and for many years that really meant stretching the family budget to be able to do it. I like the peace of mind of new. I have more options because I can keep it longer or trade it in sooner if I prefer. New will be worth more at trade in time so you will have less difference to pay next time.
Those are just my views, and I am sure there will be people who will make the case used is better.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250