Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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This Cayenne is the first German vehicle they've owned in a long time that they will actually have to PAY for the service. Their previous 2002 Audi A6 3.0 Quattro, 2004 BMW X5 3.0i, 2005 BMW 530i, 2007 BMW X5 3.0si, & 2008 BMW 328xi all included scheduled maintenace for the 1st 4 years/ 50,000 miles.
The dealer where they bought the Cayenne recently constructed a new, MECCA Porsche Dealership. When they 1st serviced the Cayenne, the service department was located at the old dealership and prices were high, but not completely outrageous for the area (North Jersey). Last week they brought the Cayenne in for an oil service because the light on the dash came on.
The service department is now part of the MECCA dealership. My Dad gets a call from the service advisor they've been working with since they bought the Cayenne. She says she thinks the car needs an alignment and a tire rotation. My Dad thinks to himself: "Funny, I thought its been driving perfect." as he's had lots of seat time driving the Cayenne over the last 3-4 weekends. He says: "How much?"
SA tells him: "$350 for the alignment & $145 for the tire rotation."
My Dad politely tells the SA to hold on. Then, as only my Dad can, screams for me.
I come running from the back of the store. "Yeah Dad, what's up?"
Dad: "Uh, the woman at the Porsche dealership is on the phone. Seh's telling me the Cayenne needs a $350 alignment & a $145 tire rotation. I've been driving the Porsche a lot lately and it seems perfect to me."
Me: "So just tell her not to do those things."
We got the bill for the oil service: $538 including tax!
That's the last time we're going there for service, unless its warranty work.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I'll cut you a deal. Bring the Cayenne to me and I'll rotate the tires for $100!!
538 including tax
Wow, just wow. How do they justify that?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I think it was worth it to drive 30 miles to save $1000, even just for the principle of it all. Just do what you are going to do, go to your closest dealer for service work.
I drove about 40 minutes, well 25 minutes further to save about $5000. I will try to take it to my new dealer if it needs service work, just because I don't want to explain anything at my old dealer, and they might spit in my gas tank or something!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
OMG! The alignment and tire rotation are bad enough but the oil change is totally ridiculous. We are talking about a car thet is around one year old and only has 34000 miles.
And people wonder why I like the 4 year bumper to bumper including all servicing on the BMW.....NO SURPRISES!
I thought that the Porshe company would spring for service for at least 3 years. Even VW is doing that these days.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Me: "So just tell her not to do those things."
We got the bill for the oil service: $538 including tax!
Holy smokes! :mad:
I was feeling stung by $8/quart synthetic 0W-20 oil for my Subaru, but now not so much. Perspective is everything. I agree, time to find somewhere new.
Well, finally got some test results back from the Dermatologist and my primary care physician. The chest X-ray he had me take this morning came back positive for pneumonia! The blood tests I took on Monday came back positive for immune deficiencies. Definitely not shingles or any other herpes viral infections, thank goodness! Just low immune system stuff which he did not elaborate on - said he would discuss it with me on Monday. Good grief, this stuff just doesn't end! That large welt on the left side of my abdomen is still there and from what the doctors said, it was a reaction to the viral infection I contracted.
He ordered levoflaxacin (levoquin) for the pneumonia and some other stuff. He said he thought seriously about putting me back into the hospital, but said that if I don't have a fever, which I don't, I could stay at home and recouperate. He told me if a fever develops, I had to go to the hospital immediately.
Once this is solved, I have to go through some extensive tests regarding my immune system. Who knows what else they'll find.
Needless to say, I'm quite distressed as well as depressed over the above. And I still have to take care of my ailing father. I'm going to get some caretaker help starting tomorrow to relieve me of that responsibility. Once I feel a little better, I'll cancel the caretaker assistance.
So...that's the story. Life is just a bowl of cherries!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
It's pretty frugal, considering how big and heavy the F10 is; according to the OBC I averaged 25-30 mpg while I had it. I'd say that the engine and tranny are optimized to work together- although if forced to speculate I'd say the multiple ratios of the autobox do a good job keeping the engine in its most efficient rpm range.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Wow; my BMW dealer charged $116 to perform an alignment on the X3- and it has needed just two in 136,000 miles.
We got the bill for the oil service: $538 including tax!
That's extremely short-sighted of the dealer. It costs them service work and very possible new/used car sales down the road. My dealer charges less than $100 for an Oil Service, and less than $250 for an Inspection I.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
We're all in your corner, Mike!
Thanks *roadburner. I'm doing the same thing!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Thanks *fezo. Hope you are improving nicely, as well!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Thanks for giving us an update. It's a good sign that they can figure out what it is to some degree. Rest up and we are all hoping for the best.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nice to hear from you too! Are you a
free turkeyerr, I mean are you out this weekend?2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My guess is everything helps a bit...8 speed transmission probably has something to do with better gas mileage. Automatic shut off and start up seems to make a difference for me, when used wisely.
Just a guess but I think BMW doesn't want to go the hybrid route, so they are trying to maximize mileage while keeping up the basic reasons people buy their cars.
But really, to find out more read almost any review of the new 328 or 528.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Have a great weekend!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That Alpina looks really nice as a wagon. I have seen a few in the dealer showroom but have never seen one on the road...although you would have to look carefully to notice it isn't a regular 5 or 7 Series BMW.
That is incredible gas mileage too....I am glad you converted British gallons to American gallons.
Is there a problem any where in the U.S. trying to get fuel for a diesel engine?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I like that 5-series, too. Too expensive for my wallet, but would be nice to have it available.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Happy Fathers' Day!
No, that is true. There used to be one in my neighborhood, it was about a 2008 and it did look nice. Not too much demand I would think for a luxury wagon....like it isn't going to get used to haul paint around or something.
I think what I meant to say was just had not seen any Alpinas of any type on the road, though they may be disguised as BMWs since they look so similar....you would really have to study it to see that it isn't a BMW 5 or 7 Series. I wonder if BMW has a 740 wagon? Now that would be something for the working guy. Though, there are probably a lot of painters and plumbers that could afford it. We once had an excellent semi-retired painter and he had an older, 10 year old Mercedes wagon. I think he kept working to keep his car going.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Actually, I'm only about 3 miles from the Atlantic. But I never go into the ocean - between the pollution and the sharks, it's enough to keep all but the tourists away. Thanks for your wishes, as well as everyone else's. I am going to rest in bed for at least a couple of days and, for once, do what my doctor says I should do. It takes 3+ days for the antibiotics to begin working.
So, as for your suggestion about an ocean dip, I'll pass for the above reasons.
HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO YOU, TOO!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Across the pond Alpinas are available from virtually every authorized BMW dealer. In the US we've only received three cars through official channels- the current and previous generation B7 and the Z8 Alpina Roadster. I had a 2008 B7 press loaner for a couple of weeks and I loved it. It was insanely fast and handled incredibly well yet the ride was still smooth and comfortable. So comfortable in fact, that I drove it from Fort Worth TX to Louisville KY in less than one day.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
No problem finding it, but the pumps are sometimes dirty and smelly.
Diesel is much easier to find than non-ethanol gas (which I use in all my small engines).
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I need that Alpina. My birthday's coming up in January.....
I posted this over in my topic but good for this crowd as well. Grandpa's advice.
We went to see our salesman at BMW armed with the Black Book value of our trade in which was $21000 for the low, up to $24,800 for perfect, which ours is and with 38000 miles.
For some reason my wife wants that home link feature (garage door opener on the mirror) so on the BMW you have to get the navigation, rear camera package which costs $4500. And the worst part was they would only give us $20,000 for the trade in. This got me because they could put it in the BMW auction and they could buy a similar car for that price! What a scam that is.
So, I thought we would check out an Audi just to see what they would give as a trade in, and to see if the home link was optional or at least included. With the A4 Premium the home link was included, so was the GPS and rear camera and Harmon Kardin sound system. It drove as well as the bmw (I am sure it doesn't have the same power or dynamics but this is my wife's car, rarely goes on the highway), and the gears actually shifted smoother, and the sight lines are better.....my wife could adjust the seat really high, and the dash is all lower and the hood is low. Side and rear vision is excellent too.
If we chose the BMW 335 which we were leaning toward, the difference after taxes and all costs would be $41,500. If we chose a 328 which we probably would do to make it more reasonable, the bottom line difference was $36000.
The difference with the A4 was $25000! The sales man who was the manager said our trade in was perfect and he would give us $24000 for it, he will do nothing to it and sell it for a minimum of $25000 and make $1000 easily. He took off 3% on the Audi and I asked for 4% and got it. He was a great salesman, honest and up front about it.
When we got home we had a message from the BMW salesman saying he talked to his guys and could do a bit better. By the way, I said when we were there I would buy the 335 for $40000 difference, so they really lost a sale. He was disappointed, they lost a sale they should have had.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
now to be clear, is this to replace the BMW and stay in Canada, but you are still getting the Passat for Florida?
Just want to make sure that Fezo knows what to scam after.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Hope Mrs. Driver enjoys her new Audi. When I saw your post, I was surprised that you acted so quickly. Are you still going for the Passat here in Floida?
Audi A4 has reasonable ratings so you made a good decision.
Best of luck with your new car!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I really like the Subaru, and think it would be a an excellent, prudent choice.
But, she still has a fixation on the RDX, which costs quite a bit more. Pulling out all the stops (" I have to keep this for 10 years until I am 60, and might die by then". "I may never have another chance to get something nice". "I never do anything nice for myself".)
well, that last part is true. Can't really say she ever spends and real money on anything for her, though I did get top of the line minivans the last couple of times!
I did do a spreadsheet earlier to lay out the financial hit of each of the options (pretty much down to the Outback and RDX, with the Santa Fe an unknown dark horse).
But I have a feeling I am going to have to scrape up the cash to buy her the RDX. Though at least I will benefit, since we can take that anytime we are together (usually that is my car now).90
Just don't tell her. I still have hope I can convince her that she really wants the Outback instead!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Thanks on the congratulations. Yes, you have it exactly right, this car is my wife's car to be used in Canada. The Passat hasn't been ordered yet, but should be ordered in another month or two, and it is to stay and be used in Florida. Yes, Fezo will have to put in his orders. Or he can buy a 2008 335 manual, perfect condition, 38k miles on it, for $25000 from the dealer. Nah, what am I thinking....pay for it..................
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Audi A4 has reasonable ratings so you made a good decision.
It was a quick decision. We got an early start to look at BMWs this morning, thinking if the price was right we would proceed. We were leaning toward the 335 but the 328 would be suitable. I said we would buy it for $40k all in, difference between new and trade.
They got to $41500 but wouldn't budge. We said we wanted to think about it. I told the salesman he was very fair and he did everything he could from his end, but the trade in didn't seem right to me because I looked up the Canadian price on the internet....that is because of the training I got from the guys here (and Kirstie too). I wouldn't have done that if you guys hadn't mentioned that, it also worked for me when I got the 535.
When we left we were going right by the Audi dealer on the way home so I just wanted to see how it would work out. That $20k for the trade in sounded like the usual scam used by car people (sorry Mike). You know, if you have a V8 they only want 6s, if you bring in a 6, they have customers who want an 8. We liked the way the Audi drove too. The clutch in the BMW didn't engage until it was in the last 25% of the way going up. The Audi was perfect.
I think if the price was the same I would take the BMW because we have had them and liked them. I think for $4k more I might still take the BMW.
But for $11k difference for the 328 and $16000 for the 335, it just doesn't make sense. But, I think if they were both priced the same, I would say I preferred the Audi. I like the interior more, the shifting, the vision, no RFTs,
and the AWD system is supposed to be better in snow.
The $11000 difference is just a great bonus. And, most important, my wife loves it!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When we were going to get the BMW my wife kept saying she has a 335 and she doesn't want to move down to a 328. I was trying to convince her the 328 was good enough for her needs. Then I learned, I think that just made her dig in deeper.
So, I said to myself, self, let her make all the decisions. I will answer only if directly asked. When she saw how much more the 335 is...about 5 or $6k more, she was ready to go with the 328 because it was a lot more for car she wouldn't really be able to use to the max any way.
When we heard how much less the Audi was I still didn't say anything, I had to let her make the decision. I don't know if your situation would be the same, but it was a huge help in my case......I had to let her make the decisions.....and I think the financials are important to wive's too. Guys tend to be cheaper about buying things, but women can have a practical side too.
If this helps someone good...because I am not sure what I am doing. We left at 10 am, got out of BMW at 2 pm, and were at Audi from 2:30 to 5:30 with no lunch. I am ready to collapse!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You won't go wrong with an Audi. They are beautifully designed cars. You can get into the FWD vs. RWD debate (and will when roadburner shows up) but really nice cars. A friend of mine with WAY more money than I'll ever have leases an A8 every two years.
When we were discussing yesterday, I asked which one did she like better, without regard to price. The RDX won (she has it in her head). So, I asked how much extra is she willing to pay for it!
It is a nice car. And I have no doubt that it is a speeding ticket waiting to happen. And while the RDX was nice, I actually really do like the Subaru. That is without taking into account cheaper up front, better MPG, and regular gas. And I would bet cheaper insurance.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My wife and I went to the Audi dealer to look at a couple of pre-owned Audi A4Qs(we had even called ahead and set up an appointment). My wife and I had already decided to buy one if we could get $14,000 for our car and if they would come down $500-$1,000 from their asking price-which was full NADA retail. After the test drive, it took them nearly one hour to appraise our car and work up a deal(I had already told them we would buy within the week if the numbers were right). They came back with $12,500($1,000 under the auction price) for our car and their full asking price for their A4-a BRIGHT green lease return which had been sitting on their lot for at least six weeks. After all this the guy has the nerve to say: "Our used car manager is out. When he gets back next week maybe he can get you some more for your trade and maybe I can get a little off the A4." We went back to our BMW dealer(who made a $15,000 buy offer on our trade) and bought a CPO 528i the following day. When the Audi salesman called to follow up I let him know that we would have bought the A4 that day if they hadn't jerked us around and then tried to gig us on the trade. And the Kermit Green A4 sat on the lot for at least another three weeks...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Happy Fathers Day to all the dads!!!!!!!!!!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Thanks for the update. Now that they know what the problem is, they can get you fixed up faster. We're all pulling for you.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That is the most insane price I have ever heard for an oil change regardless of the car. Did your Dad at least ask why it was so HIGH? I would have liked to hear that answer.
I could do it for much less but you couldn’t trust me to enter the right mileage on the oil log sheet.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
They did offer water, juice, coffe and Dads Cookies. I had a package of those and lost 1/2 a pound for the day, so it wasn't all bad.
The Audi is AWD so I am not sure if that affects it. The Passat is FWD and though it has pretty good steering, there is that bit of a pull feeling when accelerating. It is a bit firm but not a natural firm when cornering. The Audi drives like a RWD car. Maybe the bias is to be in FWD mode until the AWD kicks in, but to me, the steering was as good as the BMW.
The Audi salesman said he was going to work on me to get an A6 next time instead of a 535. I wouldn't consider an A8, too much car for my needs and too much trouble lining it up just right to fit in the garage. I said to my wife, I don't think I could go back to a 3 Series after having the 5er, but I was very comfortable with the A4.
BMW probably is the leader in performance engineering. But, the Audi has the things most people are looking for and packages it nicely. And because of the way they simplify the ordering, the price seems to work better.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That is the most insane price I have ever heard for an oil change regardless of the car.
Your oil change was more insane....$3500!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Funny roadburner, your experience was the same but in reverse. When we got to the Audi dealership all the salesman were busy. We waited for about half an hour. It wasn't there fault, it is nice they are selling cars. BUt, I was hungry and just about ready to say it has been a long day, lets eat and come back later in the week.
Just then the used car salesman was free. He was perfect, a sharp young guy, mid 30s, said he was in this dealership in a high income area, and he was dealing with business people who knew how things work. He was smart to send us out in the 2011 coupe because we could see how the manual worked. Then we went out in a 4 door automatic. And, he was smart to let us go out on our own. When we went out the second time he checked out our trade in. It all worked out and he couldn't have been better....telling us bmw are excellent cars, but he gave us what he thought were the advantages of the Audi.
If we made a list of the things we liked on each car the Audi would have come out ahead, basically the way the clutch worked, interior trim, seats go very high, comfort. I think bmw might have a little better exterior styling, and the biggest points, 4 year bumper to bumper warranty, and it is a known. And thats not counting that whopping difference in price!
I wonder what percentage of sales are lost because of sloppy salesmanship. It makes no sense....in your case they are left with a sick green Audi and in my case bmw lost a sale over $1500 that they could have easily had if they gave me a realistic amount for the trade in.
If I was to advise anyone, I would say, know what your trade in is worth and stick to it. I think this Audi auction scam will be used more and more. They know they have to discount the new car to compete, but few people know what their trade in is really worth.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Exactly. I always negotiate an OTD price, but I know what my trade is worth and I know what I'm willing to pay for the new car+ tax.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I must have missed that in an earlier post. I'll go back and look for it.
>They know they have to discount the new car to compete, but few people know what their trade in is really worth.
Long ago I said on this forum that many people get cheated on their trade-in value. I was roundly critized. Several people said the same thing later. There are so many tricks about how the dealer can slide in more payment to them, many people are baby seals at the slaughter.
The best ability is to be able to walk away. I still treasure the phone call from the salesman who wouldn't price a new Oldsmobile trading in mine without a signed purchase order with the trade-in value blank so the used manager would price my trade-in. Outrageous. He interupted me at work 3 days later to tell me he was still interested. I said to him what the xhll did he think I was there for on Monday evening. I told him I already ordered my new car at another dealer. Pregnant pause on the other end.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
LOL Fezo is so easy to please.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Payments are a great way to scam the unwary. We buy our cars using our business line of credit. We pay interest of prime plus half. Our Audi salesman said, he knows the trade in BMW could be worth $30000 but not too many people can come up with that even though it is a fair price. People would rather buy a new car that they can get financing on at special rates. That tells me something right off....if you are making payments you have to be even more careful.
trading in mine without a signed purchase order with the trade-in value blank
That would be the sign to start walking. If they are that uscrupulous then how can you trust them after that.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes, he's a good customer...will take anything that comes his way!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
All that money spent and the dealer wouldn't even throw in a bag of peanuts to eat?
The last time I spent the kind of money you paid for that car, it came with a kitchen so my wife could make me lunch. It had 3 bedrooms and a lawn too. :P
Congrats on being able to afford it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible