Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe

Well Jmonroe, I think I have regaled you and others with my never-ending body saga--a once a year event for me. My cursed Mazda3.

Well, no one can say you haven’t had your share of events. If anyone should feel paranoid about what 2013 will bring…it’s you alright. Talk about keeping your head on a swivel.

2011--$3500 damage when some dipstick backs into my car with huge truck. Attached trailer hitch crushes rear hatch and ruins back bumper cover. Hit and run.

My insurance pays

I’m curious about this one. Didn’t you have to pay the deductible and suffer a charged accident occurrence? That’s what would have happened to me and it would have cost me $500 (my deductible) but I would have made the claim. All $3500 out of my pocket so that the insurance company was not involved is not why I carry insurance.

Now you all know why I spend so much time bicycling everywhere.

Yeah, but you must have gotten lost for months because we haven’t heard from you. Maybe you’ve been lurking (like the ‘jipster’) and know what’s been going on in here. If not, way too much to recap.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...give it to Fezo..."

Dog poop, spilled drinks, buggy crashes, etc..."

Are you kidding? Fezo has standards, he won't take just any old hooptie.

snakeweasel

I was thinking something Amish as well.

I was thinking something more along this line:

abacomike

I just saw an ad on television about the new BMW 6 series grande coupe (4 door vehicle). I guess BMW wants to compete with the Mercedes CLS 550, which Benz also calls a coupe! When I'm feeling better, I think I'll go over and take a look at it. If it's anything like the CLS 550, it really will be kind of small inside.

Has anyone else seen that same ad?

driver100

an ad on television about the new BMW 6 series grande coupe (4 door vehicle).

It looks pretty nice to me. Maybe my wife will take my 535 and she will let me get one of those. Seems that the inside will be at least as large as a 5 Series since it is built on the same frame.




Read more at Edmunds:
2013 BMW 640

I always look at these comments,
Pros
Powerful engines; cutting-edge technology; seductive style.

Cons
Pricier than rivals, including BMW's larger, more practical 740i sedan.

But, I think that is meaningless, not every one wants the bulk of a 740,
so to me the fact it is smaller is a positive feature....to each his own.

All the comments seem pretty positive but starting price is supposed to be around $76000!

driver100

Someone asked this a few days ago and I don't know if an answer was given. It came from injection as in fuel injection but these days doesn't mean much as all models have fuel injection.

The numbers 328, 335, 528, 535, 550 etc are just model numbers now. These numbers used to indicate engine size, but they don't any more...engine sizes can be the same but power may vary. All 1 Series are based on the same frame, 3s, 5s, 6s,7s all get larger as you progress up the scale, so the numbers still give you an idea of the size of each model.

Hope that helps.

dino001

The two last digits are not engine size anymore, but they do indicate power, as the higher the number, the higher the power. My understanding in their corporate cool-aid mumbo-jumbo it basically indicates the displacement of some kind of comparison benchmark naturally aspirated engine from the past.

abacomike

starting price is supposed to be around $76,000!

That is pretty "high on the hog" pricing for BMW. The Benz CLS550 starts at around $74,000, but by the time you add some "goodies" it gets to about $78,000 to $80,000. Benz has tried over and over to develop interest in this car, but has failed dismally in getting demand up. I have heard that if sales do not "awaken" soon, they may drop the line. That's why I am surprised BMW entered into this market niche.

The 5 series tops off at close to $69,000 give or take a few bucks. In terms of size, performance and pricing, why would someone move up to a 6 series if the 550i is so close in terms of size and performance and spend $10K+++ more for something similar? That's what Benz had to deal with when you consider the E550 has the same engine and is even more comfortable than their CLS.

Obviously, their market testing suggested the addition of a 4 door sedan in the 6 series. With the addition of the 740i (7 series with the turbo 6) the offerings are getting so close to each other.

My GS350 is darn close to the way the LS460 will look and in terms of pricing Lexus made sure there is still a $12K differential. Even the new ES will have the new spindle front end like the rest of the 2013 line.

It just seems like the manufacturers of the luxury sport lines are not differentiating their models like they used to. Just look at the Infiniti G37 sedan and the M37 sedan. They are beginning to look like twins.

I'm no expert on design and marketing, but if they continue to lessen the differences between their lower priced and smaller sized entries and their larger and more expensive entries, the populous will eventually begin to question purchasing the top of the line vehicle and move more toward the middle line vehicles. As an example, choosing a 5 series over a 6 series, or an E350 over a CLS, or a GS350 or ES 350 over an LS460.

Only time will tell.

dino001

Upscale customer places high value on individuality. The idea of cars like CLS or 4-door 6-series is not to sell a lot, but to get 90% of already used components into fresh-looking sheetmetal and entice those who want something different. Those very same people will be willing to pay a bit extra for that uniqueness, even if it "doesn't make sense" by some accounting standards per pound of metal or per cubic foot of room.
The general trend is: a few volume models and a lot of derivatives that seem just like their siblings, but have something different and a bit confusing in them. Nobody really knows why would anybody want X6, 4-door 6-series or A7, but some people buy them exactly because nobody else has them.

driver100

Choosing a car in this market is very subjective. While I admire MB for creating an interesting new design with the CLS550, I just wouldn't want one for myself....I don't like those small windows, looks like a chopped hot rod.


I think there is a fine line between whether people would pay more for a 640 than say a 550. The people buying the 6er will buy it because they can. They are probably looking for something that will be very unique, maybe even something flashier than what their neighbor has.

It won't be a big seller but the current 6 two door is not a huge seller. I think BMW figures a 4 door is going to sell more than a 2 door, the boomers are retiring and many are coming into inheritance money. There will be lots of executives with money retiring over the next few years, and though there is lots of doom and gloom with the economy, things usually turn around, and we are due for some good news sometime soon.

driver100

The idea of cars like CLS or 4-door 6-series is not to sell a lot, but to get 90% of already used components into fresh-looking sheetmetal

Great answer....right on. Good answer on the bmw numbering system too!
If I had read this first I wouldn't have posted the post after yours....

dino001

Of course, there is a bit more and whole lot more. There is long and documented history of mispriced models in all manufacturer's. When introducing something new and strange, caution is always a good idea. I remember first M-class Benz being priced really attractively, same with first X3 and X5. Or when Lexus came first to the market, it had a killer price. At that time sale was more important than immediate profit, mostly because they did have high hopes for the long term model line - and they were right. When those caught on, prices of next generations climbed quite dramatically, well beyond the incremental improvements of the actual vehicles.

However, niche vehicles that are intended to remain such do not follow that pattern - they usually start overpriced and work their appeal from the top down, if at all. I don't think BMW hope they will sell a lot of four door 640 - in fact would not be suprised if they thought they'd sell even fewer than coupes/convertibles. The price tells me that you may not even see many of those on your local dealer's lot, if at all.

But, what do I know... I thought Audi A3 was doomed from a start, also due to pricing. I still think 4-cylinder 528 and 328 were terrible ideas, even if they have more power and better mileage than previous naturally aspirated 6-cylinder engines (like one inside of my wagon's hood) ... Last data from BMW seems to be proving me wrong - people don't care, or to be precise - most people buying those cars don't care; they probably don't even know what a cylinder is (is it an old fashioned black hat?) and how many of those you need/want in a car...

driver100

I still think 4-cylinder 528 and 328 were terrible ideas

I think the idea of going to a 4 cylinder engine in 328 and 528s was a very gutsy move. Oil prices are down for now, but they will go up at some point. Some people (like my wife) probably won't settle for a 328, but I think a lot of people will love the idea of driving an eco-friendly BMW, that will mean prestige with no guilt driving.

Turbo engines can make up for a loss of normal horsepower very easily. Besides, the government is going to demand better gas mileage as we proceed into the future. I guess I tried the 528 and was underwhelmed, so I had to go with a 535. But, like you said, most people don't really care, as long as they are driving a bimmer.

nyccarguy

I had a 2000 Saab 9-3 that I leased & loved driving a 4 cyl turbo car (the torque steer, not so much). It would be great in a RWD BMW, but I don't like what I've been reading about electric power steering in the new F30s.

I know it's an old school way of thinking, but I just don't know about dropping $40K plus on a 4 cyl car. Especially since the inline 6 in my 328xi is so smooth & powerful, not to mention the brilliant steering feedback.

abacomike

...but I don't like what I've been reading about electric power steering

I haven't read much about electronic power steering vs. conventional hydraulic power steering, however my new GS350 has electric power steering and I really don't notice any difference. The steering stiffens up the fast you go and loosens up when at low speeds, just like variable power steering does with hydraulics. I even think my E350 Benz had electronic power steering.

I will try to look up some details on that - what have you heard, nycarguy*?

As for a 4 cylinder engine, I had a 1987 Porsche 944 turbo - 4 cylindars with turbo, of course. It was fast - very fast. I also had a 1988 Audi 5000CE which had a 5 cylindar engine wiht a turbo. Also, very fast. As for fuel economy, I really don't remember what I got on those cars, but I don't think it was very much.

Today's 4 cylindar engines, especially with turbo, perform quite well - but I don't think I would own one in a mid-sized car like a 5 series or an E350, or even a GS350. 4 cylindar engines, from what I have read, have very low torque - so driving a 4000 pound car with a 4 cylindar engine would not be my cup of tea, so to speak.

abacomike

When introducing something new and strange, caution is always a good idea

I agree, Dino*! I had the same odd reaction when I first saw the Porsche 4 door sedan - I believe it's called a Pantera. I still shake my head when I see one on the road - it might be a great car but there are so many other "better" cars out there in the marketplace at lower pricing and high ratings. The Porsche Pantera, BMW 6 series 4 door sedan and the Mercedes CLS550 all seem to be in the same market niche. Sort of like a 4 door coupe - very small on the inside with head room made for people under 6 foot tall. I tried sitting in a CLS 550 last fall and my head hit the roof even with the seat down most of the way. I am 6'2' and found the E350 roomier.

I would expect I would have the same problem in the Bimmer and the Porsche.

I also checked out he the XJ sedan, also very tight in terms of roominess and comfort as well as height.

There is no doubt that there is something out there in the marketplace for just about every human being's wants and desires. The new 6 series bimmer 4 door coupe is just another means of meeting some of the populous's desires. But I am with you - I am always leary of cars like this.

I was quite brave buying the new GS350 - first year for a model change - something I rarely do. Luckily, that steering vibration is now gone after they finally balanced the wheels properly this last time. It took them 3 times - a guess 3's a charm!!!!

stickguy

I don't know why some people get so hung up on a # instead of results (such as performance).

Besides, if you stripped the badges, odds are the vast majority of car buyers would have no clue how many cylinders, and if fact probably will never open the hood!

I have recently driven the Ford Ecoboost 4 cyl engines (1.6l in an Escape, and 2.0 in an Edge) and IMO they work fine. Sound good, pull hard. And I was amazed that the 1.6 performed as well as it did.

I was explaining some of the engine stuff (size and tech) to my wife, and got a blank stare. Same as when I tried to explain the CVT in the Subaru she was driving!

fezo

I was explaining some of the engine stuff (size and tech) to my wife, and got a blank stare.

Ah! The dog stare! I know that one!

gogiboy

"Porsche 4 door sedan - I believe it's called a Pantera."

Mike--

I think you mean "panamera". Pantera was a car built in the early 70s until? by De Tomaso and was imported by Ford. Don't know much about them except that they looked very futuristic for the early 70s. I used to bicycle past a small import dealership that sold them in Ann Arbor, MI for a couple of years. Can't remember seeing any of the road, though.

Gogiboy

driver100

I don't know why some people get so hung up on a # instead of results (such as performance).

I agree...the new 4 cylinder 328 has a faster 0 to 60 than the 6 cylinder had.

A Ford Fusion rental car had a 4 cylinder and I had to pop the hood to actually see if it had a 4 or a 6.

At one time most of us would have wanted an 8 cylinder but we are ok with a 6. Next we'll be ok with a 4, but won't want a 2!

One thing about "dog stare", what in the world are they thinking about?

stickguy

who thinking, the dog or your wife?

the dog is just wondering if you are going to give him food, scratch his stomach, or throw the tennis ball (well, at least me Lab is) as best as i can figure.

The wife, that is probably "and you think I care about this why?"

jwm40517

Speaking of stripped badges, if you removed the maker's logos from nearly all cars from Japan & Mercedes & VW you could not find 1 person in 100 that could place the correct badges on the cars from a rear or 3/4 view.

I was behind a Hyundai & Mercedes at a light yesterday and was amazed at how much they looked alike. A few years ago you could identify a Mercedes from a distance & any angle. New VW looks like it could be from Japan also. It just seems odd that German & other makers seem to doing away with their distinctive looks and are trying to look Japanese. Maybe they should all merge and just have sedans that say 2 Dr or 4 Dr on the trunk.

nyccarguy

I have experience driving a car with Electric Power Steering (my 2010 Acura TSX). There is just ZERO communication or feedback through the steering wheel.

One of the few times it actually snowed last winter (due to the fact I bought a 4WD Pilot), I drove my Acura to work. The ONLY way I knew the front wheels had lost traction was because the stability control light kept flickering.

nyccarguy

I have no problem with 4 cyl cars. I currently own 1 (up until this past March I owned 2). I don't doubt their performance advantages, especially when turbocharged (less weight over the nose, less weight overall). I agree with you that MOST buyers won't even know they're driving a Turbo 4 cyl. There are some naturally aspirated 6 cyl motors out there that are complete slugs (Lexus IS250). There's just got to be a point where that 4 cyl turbo is THAT GOOD to be in a $45K, $50K, & $60K vehicle.

Just like BMW and Audi with their 740i & A8 3.0T cars respectively. The BMW is powered by the N55 Twin Scroll Turbo Inline 6, as opposed to the Twin Turbo V8 of the 750i. The A8 is powered by a Supercharged V6, as opposed to a naturally aspirated V8 in the A8 4.2. When you are spending $80 something thousand PLUS on a Flagship from a German Marquee, even being an enthusiast, are you really going to get a 6 cyl powered car? Or are you going to say , "I've made it, no more compromises, screw the 6, gimme the 8?"

roadburner

I currently own two 4 cyl BMWs, and just I spent several days driving an F10 528i with the N20 engine. In my opinion the average driver won't notice much difference. The four isn't quite as smooth as the inline six -what is?- but it provides strong performance and remarkable fuel economy.

tjc78

I have experience driving a car with Electric Power Steering (my 2010 Acura TSX). There is just ZERO communication or feedback through the steering wheel.


IDK I think it has to do with car IMHO. My Fiance's Elantra has EPS and it does lack communication, but I really just think it is the way the car is designed.

Now OTOH my 09 Genesis V6 had normal steering and you certainly knew what the front wheels were doing. The V8 Genesis (that I drove on several occasions as loaners) had EPS and I couldn't tell any difference between the two.

JMonroe, how do you feel about the steering in your V8 Genesis?

abacomike

There is just zero feedback through the steering wheel...

Hmmm...I sure had lots of steering wheel feedback on this GS350 two weeks ago - due to wheel imbalance. Now, I don't get the vibration any longer since they properly balanced the wheels, but I sure do feel the differences in road surfaces, especially on the Florida Turnpike.

But I will admit that the Mercedes E350 I just traded in had a better road feel and response than this new GS350. But I had different tires on the Benz. They were z rated summer tires and low profiles compared to these which are v rated and are all-seasons.

robr2

All 1 Series are based on the same frame...

Tsk tsk tsk - they're called platforms today.

driver100

Tsk tsk tsk - they're called platforms today.

Right...I was thinking of the word and had a senior moment...I've been having a lot of them lately.

tjc78

It's ok pop a Geritol and have a glass of Ensure. You'll be fine! :P :P

driver100

The four isn't quite as smooth as the inline six

I have been checking out a few reviews lately and although all the reviewers had reservations about BMW going to 4s, they all ended up having very positive comments. The engine is faster, performance is better, lighter front end for better handling, and about a whopping 20% better gas mileage.

There are some engineering tricks used, such as electronic power steering which cuts weight, and using an 8 speed transmission.

This is the future. People were skeptical about 6 cylinders replacing 8 but it was done. The 4 will be the engine of choice for most people.

imidazol97

> I don't get the vibration any longer since they properly balanced the wheels,

I must have missed if you posted earlier about what they did to fix the vibration. So it was indeed just the tires needing a proper balancing?

tjc78

As I may have mentioned, I'm getting married later this year.

We have had to do lots of planning, purchasing, etc. My Fiance has certianly done more than I, but I think that is the norm.

Here are some examples of pure frustration:

Flowers:
Mom had a "friend" who wanted to do the flowers. She was going to save us money (so she claimed). Quote: 6K!! :surprise:
After the paramedics brought me back to life, I kindly said "we will think about it" and later in the car I said HECK NO!

Ended up at a local shop who will be doing more stuff for less than half!

Limo:
I guess the Limo business in South Jersey is booming. They either are nasty, booked, or don't call you back. I finally found a nice outfit who told me to come to their place and look over our options. We have a big party so we need an SUV type limo and they had exactly what we wanted.

Venue:
We "fired" our consultant at the venue since she didn't call us back, and was out and out nasty to my Fiance. This was at the manager's advice since he was the one who took both messages. The new woman is so nice and accomodating.

Invitations:
I screwed up and told my Fiance the wrong amount. I had to call back after they were produced and pull teeth to get a decent price to run another 25. Buying extra on one order is virtually nothing additional, but to do it after the fact is full price. I sweet talked them into running another batch at half off.

I'll tell you one thing, I'll buy 5 cars before trying to plan all this stuff. Most has been pretty smooth but wow! Oh, and we just got a letter from the Priest who was marrying us and he is moving parishes. Great.

abacomike

So it was just the tires needing proper balancing

Yes! It took them 3 tries, but finally nailed the problem - off 34 grams. It was their balancing machine that was the problem.

stickguy

If you need my address, just let me know!

Weddings are a giant racket/scam. I am big on theme weddings. Which is another way of saying low budget. And you know what? do something funky but cheap, and everyone remembers it. Do a standard 40K/big hall extravaganza, and it just seems like every other wedding.

I'm also a big fan of the Vegas Elvis wedding chapel. If I got married again (not happening!) that would be the way to go. Then you can throw a nice party for everyone that missed it.

And get with the modern age. Paper invites? Facebook event!

mako1a

tjc, funny how you posted this on my 29th anniversary. My wife and I got married on the new deck of our house the day after I hammered in the final nail. Her sister was the photographer, her parents and mine were just as thrilled to be there as in a fancy hall. Total cost was about $400.

driver100

It's ok pop a Geritol and have a glass of Ensure. You'll be fine!

Thanks for the tip....why did I need to know that :confuse: :P

jmonroe

Mike…Did I miss a post where you explained (if you wanted to) what your doctors are doing about you immune system hiccup? I guess the good thing is that you're back here posting.

Luckily, that steering vibration is now gone after they finally balanced the wheels properly this last time. It took them 3 times - a guess 3's a charm!!!!

No it’s not the ole 3rd times the charm thing. You unfortunately had two dopes that tried it the first two times. The spin balancers today and for the last 2 decades are almost foolproof if you follow the manufactures instructions and don’t try to cheat your way through it; like not spinning the tire again after the weights are put on (today they are glued on). Not doing a final spin check is about the only way you can screw up a balance job today. It almost happened to me twice but I asked that the check spin be done. Both of the so called tire mechanics said, “I do this all day. I know it’s right”. I asked that they humor me anyway and darn, if they weren’t out of balance BOTH TIMES. It’s kind of surprising that even with the rep involved they couldn’t get it right the first time. Makes me wonder what kind of a service dept. your dealer has. Lexus should be a LOT better than what you’ve experienced so far.

jmonroe

driver100

Oh, and we just got a letter from the Priest who was marrying us and he is moving parishes.

Have you considered eloping?

The worst wedding I went to must have cost about $300,000. It was in a castle, they had appetizer stations one for every kind of food possible, Chinese, Indian, Mexican etc. They had a 10 piece orchestra and flowers on each table had to cost about $1000, and there were about 30 tables. The music was so loud and was only of interest to any one under 25 years old....all the people older than that had to go outside to talk.

I have been to much nicer weddings that cost less than $5000. I have learned, it isn't the cost that makes a wedding, it is the ambience.

jmonroe

The V8 Genesis (that I drove on several occasions as loaners) had EPS and I couldn't tell any difference between the two.

JMonroe, how do you feel about the steering in your V8 Genesis?

I agree. If you didn’t look under the hood or read the specs for the car you wouldn’t know what type of PS it had. If I were a real performance track type that might not be the case. A little surprising thing is that when Son #1 (a real performance minded type) drove the car home from Ohio after I bought it, commented that the reviews he read about the car are what he also thought about how it felt and drove. It’s a pretty good combination of the two. Not too cushy and not too stiff. Mrs. j is warming up to it but she still prefers a soft ride. The Legacy is not as soft as the XG350 but for some reason she like it better.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Yes! It took them 3 tries, but finally nailed the problem - off 34 grams. It was their balancing machine that was the problem.

I read this post after I made post 80256. It’s possible that it was the balancing machine but I really don’t believe that. After all, if you were the service dept would you admit that your guys didn’t know what they were doing? It’s a lot easier to blame the machine. And lets say it was the machine, they are supposed to have it calibrated on a prescribed schedule which they probably didn’t do. Anyway, I thought you said they drove the car and didn’t feel that there was anything wrong.

I don’t buy it.

jmonroe

abacomike

...I don't buy it!

They said "...they felt nothing..." but when I looked over the final paperwork and compared it with the prior 2 service visits, it showed the out of balance front left wheel/tire and the amount it was off. So, they FELT NOTHING AFTER THEY REBALANCED the wheels again. It's obvious I was lied to!!! No, I won't be going back to them for service - there are 2 other dealerships closer to me which I will use instead!!!

The service manager told me after I called him back, that the wheels/tires were not properly balanced. When I asked him why I was not told the truth, he hemmed an hawed! Never should have bought the car so far from home to save $1000 bucks. Should have gotten the car at the dealership 2 miles from my house.

tjc78

Weddings are a giant racket/scam

I hear you!!!! The first thing any vendor asks "Is this for a Wedding" In other words let me jack up the price 25%.

And get with the modern age. Paper invites? Facebook event

My Fiance and I are probably the only people under 40 that don't have Facebook. I hate it, and want nothing to do with it. She feels the same.

Driver,
The Geritol comment was my bad attempt at an old person joke..... :surprise:

Our wedding will be no 300K event (that is for sure!!). We are trying our best to make it formal while being a blast for everyone. The one thing I insisted on was awesome food. Someone who was recently at our venue just raved about it..... fingers crossed.

Mako,
If my Fiance would have gone for a house wedding, I would be building the deck as we speak! Happy Anniversary.

imidazol97

> “I do this all day. I know it’s right”. I asked that they humor me anyway and darn, if they weren’t out of balance BOTH TIMES....Makes me wonder what kind of a service dept. your dealer has

Exactly what I was thinking when it did turn out to be the balancing. I've had trouble with my local tire company using the Roadforce balancing. Some techs use a high blind setting so the machine is tolerant of minor imbalance and shows a "zero" on the screen and the wheel hurries back to the customer car. Oddly, when the manager is involved in my visit, the balancing turns out much better. I leave if he's not there after the one visit where I had read the balancer operations manual online and told the regular service writer I wanted the setting on maximum sensitivity. He looked at me with his head twisted up llike I was crazy. But I got a correct balance.

You've got to know what's happeneing with these folks, otherwise they're like our local Sears store--a junk shop just sellin' and sellin'.

tjc78

It’s a pretty good combination of the two. Not too cushy and not too stiff.

I always thought that was a big part of the problem. I would have preferred one extreme or the other. I felt the suspension had too much "compromise" and suffered from it.

Nevertheless, have owned one I can tell you that Hyundai did build an impressive vehicle in every respect (other than my opinion on the suspension). It still remains a relative bargain in the marketplace IMHO.

nyccarguy

You said you've got a 2013 (4 cyl) 528i as a loaner, right? I have no doubt it is faster than an identical 2012 F10 (6 cyl) 528i, but how much more fuel efficient is it? How much of this increased efficiency can be attributed to the 4 cyl turbo engine and how much can be attributed to the wide spaced ratios (5,6,7,8) of the new 8 speed automatic?

jmonroe

Never should have bought the car so far from home to save $1000 bucks. Should have gotten the car at the dealership 2 miles from my house.

I don’t know how far “so far” is for you but to save $1000 I’d drive a fair distance. I’ve done it twice already; to Ohio. Although a lot of that was to get what I wanted. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in the poor house but I’d like to be in the position where $1000 is not worth giving up some convenience. You more than most know that you can take your car to any authorized dealer for service. It’s nice that you have a Lexus dealer right around the corner that you can go to from now on. With what you got from the dealership where you bought, how much worse can they be?

jmonroe

dino001

I think influence of where one buys a car over quality of service is overblown. By second or third visit in a dealership, they'll likely treat the customer as "regular", i.e. all privileges of a customer (if there really are any) will apply. I experienced it first hand with my Subaru. They were all so happy to take my money that it did not matter if I bought the car there. Salespeople will give you this picture of a royalty treatment at service bay, if you buy it there, but if they are really honest and you ask right questions, you learn that loaners are still available, warranty claims just the same, etc. So if the service dept sucks, it sucks for all and if it is a good one, it is good for all as well. So I buy where it's cheaper and service where I believe it's better (including pricing of course).

BTW, judging by ridiculous pricing (I looked at their price sheets) at my BMW dealer, I don't think I'll be doing anything more than what's paid by the manufacturer. I don't mind something like 20-30% premium over non-branded garage, but 150%-200% ( nearly tripple price) premium is not even close. $200 for wheel alignments or throttle body cleaning, same for oil change. It simply looks like $200 is their price increment ($200-$400-$600, etc.). I understand they have higher costs, but a lot of it is fluff than may be important for some CEO guy (or more importantly his trophy wife), but I can easily live without.

driver100

I have no doubt it is faster than an identical 2012 F10 (6 cyl) 528i, but how much more fuel efficient is it?

I hope Roadburner gets back to you on that, but in the meantime, just in case he doesn't see your questions...the short answer off the top of my head relying on memory which isn't great these days;
*The 328 4 cyl was actually one second faster than the previous 6 cyl engine 0 to 60.
*The 8 speed transmission has a lot to do with it, as does making the car lighter and using other techniques.
*This is rough but I seem to recall mileage is about 10 to20% better. Seems to me 33 mpg on the new, and 28 or 26 on the previous.
All that can be checked by reading the reviews. I have read so many I forget the exact numbers.
I just don't have the time today to get you exact numbers, but just look up the reviews, I find they are all very positive for the new 4 cylinder engines.

abacomike

How much worse can they be?...

Actually, they are the top selling Lexus dealer in the world (the one that is about a mile or so away) and have a great service department. But, when I priced the new car, they were $1000 more including my trade. The 2012 E350 I traded is where the problem was. They were only giving me 51K while the other dealer gave me $52K and invoice for the GS350. The dealer I bought the car at is 37 miles each way, but all turnpike driving - I live right off the Florida Turnpike and they are in Pembroke Pines, just off I-75. So in terms of the, the drive is easy.

But I won't take the car back to them again - not with all their deception at service. They just didn't want to admit that they blew the first two wheel balancing efforts. I know they got it right the last time only because Lexus Zone was involved to supervise everything.

Lexus was very sensitive to my complaints (manufacturer, not dealer) because the want to make sure this newly redesigned GS350 is well received in the marketplace. Remember, they almost discontinued the GS but decided to totally revamp the exterior and interior to give new life to this model.

I haven't seen any others on the road as yet, but I know the FSport is very popular. I just didn't like the interior of the FSport - all aluminum trim in place of wood. Very cheap looking.

So, I will start using my local dealership for my servicing needs after the negative experiences at my selling dealership.