Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50

"...us 40 hour a week working stiffs..."

As a government employee and union member I say RIGHT ON, BROTHER!

But....

As a self-employed business owner I say GET BACK TO CUBA, COMMIE! :mad:

People want it both ways, they want business people to hire employees and pay them well but they don't want the successful ones to get any reward for the capital they put at risk. :confuse:

gogiboy

"...the 5 might be too much luxury and be too soft for you. But, I love the fact that it is smooth and comfortable,..."

I don't know, that sounds antithetical to the "feel of the road" you oft promote as the minimal standard of Teutonic engineered excellence.

Gogiboy

roadburner

But, I love the fact that it is smooth and comfortable, but the steering and handling are amazing!

Too each his own; the new 5er is a total yawner for me(and my wife). I recently reviewed a Kia Optima Turbo in my newspaper column and concluded with this comment:

Be aware, that the Optima is not a sports sedan, but having said that I'd note that it is no less fun to drive than the new BMW 528i- which is certainly no sports sedan either.

abacomike

...thanks mike..

You are quite welcome, snake*. Sorry you couldn't get a membership. The only reason I can lavish on new cars so often is due to the USAA pricing, which in many cases is well below factory and dealer invoice. I was just lucky my Dad is a member and then I was able to become a member.

Hope your sister has good luck with that C Class she wants. Let me know of she is successful.

abacomike

...sure hope you can post soon...

Hi Fez! Just been quite ill so I was in the hospital. Just got home! Have se real problems withy immune system - SOUND FAMILIAR? Still facing lots more tests and immune globulin shots, but at least I'm out of that place and home now.

Thanks for asking. Congrats on Edmunds honors and your trip home. Hope you are doing well.

jmonroe

Do any of you guys remember getting a ballot sheet with one of your last dues statements? I didn’t see one in mine. If I did I would have voted for myself just in case ‘kirstie’ forgets to put a lock on further posts when we hit 99,999. Since ‘fez’ was the first to be recognized by The Edmunds Member Spotlight forum, I’m beginning to think I have a shot at receiving the100K Poster Pin.

‘fez’…do me a favor when you get a chance, after chasing the nurses around. Take a picture of your pin and post it here so I’ll have an idea of what to expect when I get my 100K Poster Pin.

All kidding aside, congratulations ‘fez’. I can’t imagine a more deserving person getting this honor. Continue to get well and congratulations again.

jmonroe

driver100

As a self-employed business owner I say GET BACK TO CUBA, COMMIE!

Right on brother...oh, that would be a fellow union member!

Quite often people with 40 hour a week jobs have a nice pension plan and quite often medical and dental plans etc. (not to mention being paid for sick days) and nice perks like being able to claim Unemployment Insurance if need be.

Entrepeneurs are on our own, we have to save for the future, we have to pay our own expenses, we don't have the safety net of unemployment insurance, and if we are sick we can't work.

The government owes us a few breaks so that when we risk it all and are successful, we pay back much more in taxes than what the government loses giving us a chance to grow our business.

driver100

...the 5 might be too much luxury and be too soft for you. But, I love the fact that it is smooth and comfortable,..."
I don't know, that sounds antithetical to the "feel of the road" you oft promote as the minimal standard of Teutonic engineered excellence.

Gogi, where have you been?

I don't think it is a contradiction if you think of it this way....the handling, that is steering has the same feel of the road....that is it is not loose, even though it is slightly lighter. The car rides smoother, but somehow, BMW has engineered the car to be somewhere between a 3 Series and a sloppy American car (I won't say Buick or Caddie because those have improved). And, if you really want a firmir ride and firmer steering, just put the car into Sport Mode with the push of a button. The car goes down about an inch, the steering and ride are as firm as a 3 series, and if you really want extra firm just push the button again and go into Sport+.

I used those all the time at first, but now I like the regular mode - comfort, it is the best of both worlds, smoother and slightly lighter steering, but still the same feel of the road feeling.

Hope that explains it.

Now, what have you been up to and have you caught up in all the posts?

jmonroe

Just been quite ill so I was in the hospital. Just got home! Have se real problems withy immune system

I was just thinking of you today and was about to ask where you were. I was afraid you were admitted since you haven’t been here for awhile but at least the proper treatment can start now for your immune system since it sounds like the shingles diagnosis was not correct.

This place is good therapy, huh?

Get well.

jmonroe

roadburner

The problem with the F10's steering is not the effort- it's the fact that it is totally devoid of feel. It does not tell me what the front tires are doing.

driver100

Be aware, that the Optima is not a sports sedan, but having said that I'd note that it is no less fun to drive than the new BMW 528i- which is certainly no sports sedan eithe

Can you get the Sport and Sport+ options on a 528? I think you have to go with a 535 to do that. I believe I did test a 528 and I thought it was boring too. Then the salesman said, I know what's wrong, you need the 535 with the M package and when I tried it, that won me over. Really, it makes a huge difference. Eco is really slow, but it does give you great mileage, comfort gives you the same ride as the 528, less firm steering than a 3 Series and softer ride. Sport is the same as a 3, probably slightly softer ride because of the longer wheelbase...not as choppy a ride on bad pavement but steering is about the same, Sport+ has much firmer steering than a 3 Series and the ride is firmir than a 3, but probably smoother feeling on choppy roads because of the longer wheelbase.

I thought you mentioned Sport and Sport+ in your original post. I don't see how, if you have those modes, you could find the car boring.

I liked the idea of the 528s 4 cylinder turbo engine so that was what I was expecting to buy when I went for a test drive. I was underwhelmed, so maybe we are in agreement if that's what we are comparing.

dino001

Questions of what is a legitimate cost of business are inevitable when when you tax work and income. Right now people (voters) and government bureaucrats always think they know better what is good for businessess, which of course makes lobbying necessary, which in turn creates meanders of perverse and idiotic incentives having nothing to do with increase of productivity and everything to do with who has better access and sounds more convincing that selling their stuff would create larger "multiplier" for jobs. I say abolish that crap altogether and tax consumption and some possessions (real estate).

fezo

You'll hate me for saying this but one of the perks with the recognition is a 50% reduction in dues.....

driver100

You are quite welcome, snake*.

Hey, you are back! I was worried about you but didn't want any one to be alarmed. I thought you would be back once things got sorted out.

Nice to have you back.....

fezo

Congrats on getting back home! Well, you can always get a new immune system but I don't recommend it unless you really need one. It gets you two miserable weeks (chemo) and one boring recovery. That said it works!

With any luck what they are doing will get you back to your old self!

roadburner

I thought you mentioned Sport and Sport+ in your original post. I don't see how, if you have those modes, you could find the car boring.

It just has the Sport mode, which converts the car from very boring to merely boring. :P

abacomike

...good place for therapy...

Yes, but it all depends upon what type of therapy you're talking about. LOL!!!

Yep, the welt on my abdomen was not shingles, but rather my immune system reacting to something, but they don't have any answers yet. The welt or "bollis" as they called it is typical of an insect bite, but I was not bitten by any insects. But my immune system reacted as if it was!

Immune globulin is one treatment but the biopsies and scrapings revealed nothing. Going in for more tests on Monday morning, which is what the doctors wanted. They wanted me to remain in the hospital over the weekend, but I promised I would do the tests Monday morning if they let me out today.

I've been trying to catch up on all the posts while I was away.

Good to be home - that's for sure!

driver100

I say abolish that crap altogether and tax consumption and some possessions

You have to allow for tax breaks for equipment and even employees if you want a capitalist system to work. The government is helping to launch a business which will pay back many times over if successful. It is hard enough to start a business from zero, you need some breaks to get things going.

Also, most businesses require more money being plowed back into the business if it is growing. I would guess most self employed people work for free for a few years and they work way more than 40 hours.....but the dividends come if successful, and the government benefits too.

Like I said, when i started the business I was collecting unemployment insurance. Now my taxes are as much as some people yearly income, and 15 people are paying taxes and buying things that keep other people employed. I don't know if I could have done it without the tax deductions, and I don't know if people would be motivated to do it if their ventures are too risky to even start.

abacomike

... get you back on your feet...

Thanks fezo*. Hopefully I can stay out of the hospital and still have all the tests and injections. Those immune globulin shots sure hurt a lot. My derrière is as tender as it can possibly be.

abacomike

...but didn't want to worry anyone...

Thanks, driver*, good to be back! I figure it will take me several hours to catch up on all the postings.

explorerx4

Fez, You will be fully recovered when you become a Yankee fan.
Since you are still recuperating, maybe your Yankee gene hasn't fully germinated yet.

fezo

:P

dino001

You did not undestand what I just wrote at all. Concept of taxing consumption and possessions makes tax breaks unnecessary. Tax breakes are invented in the world in which general productivity is taxed, but society (through its enlighted representatives) decides that some activities deserve to be taxed less than others (with great help of the lobbiests, of course). When there is no no income tax, there is no tax break. Activity is only be taxed on the receiving end (i.e. consumption, or in general, purchasing), or on possessions (real estate or alike). Then it is up to one with the money (or possession) to decide whether they want to make more money (make productive purchases), or spent in in a casino. Some will spend it in a casino, but there would be enough of greedy ones who would want more, especially if we don't tax fruit of their labor (income), only what they buy with it. Yes, machines or other productive items would be taxed at time of purchase, too, but their fruits would no longer taxed.

Taxing real estate (or other capital possessions) pushes the owners to reevaluate whether they are best to own it (e.g. they may or may not be able to afford it), or perhaps there is somebody, who would make a better use of their property (through lease of purchase), which in turn allows for more efficient allocation of capital.

Again, taxes are then simple and market decides which activity is "best" for society, not government and lobbiests.

stickguy

why do you need to know what the front tires are doing? This is what all the computers are for!

snakeweasel

I was responding to someone else who couldn't get membership into USAA. I am a vet and I am a member. However I am able to do just fine on my own in getting a good proce.

abacomike

… I am able to do just fine on my own...

I'm sorry, I thought you were inquiring for your sister. At least that is what I thought your post was about - but I have been known to make mistakes. Perhaps you were responding to another post and I misread it as your post. My apologies.

ronsteve

C’mon, do you really think us 40 hour a week working stiffs are going to believe that? If a car is needed for business it’s needed to transport things and people. Top of the line cars are an excess. And don’t tell me you’ll pay the difference, I’ve heard that proposed too. If I were in charge you’d get the grocery getter or you’d get NOTHING in tax breaks. If you want a luxo car, because you think it will get you more business, pay for all of it yourself with your increased sales.

My thought on vehicle tax breaks is that it should be capped. You get the grocery-getter (or more likely somewhere around the average-priced vehicle), write it off. You want a luxo car? You can write off the cost of the grocery-getter.

roadburner

why do you need to know what the front tires are doing? This is what all the computers are for!

I suppose you're right; what was I thinking???

imidazol97

I would enjoy reading one of your reviews of more normal vehicles for the rest of us. I have a feeling you would be more practical than many of the "test drivers" who write for magazines and some of the newspapers here.

driver100

your Yankee gene hasn't fully germinated yet.

Maybe the donor was a Yankee fan.

driver100

You did not undestand what I just wrote at all. Concept of taxing consumption and possessions makes tax breaks unnecessary

I am not positive, but I actually think I do understand what you mean. I believe you are talking about a consumption tax or in Canada we have GST, or Goods and Services tax. So for every item you buy (with some exceptions) and recently every service you pay for ( lawyer, accountant, mechanic) you pay an additional 5% to the federal government. Provinces have their own provincial tax which is usually between 5 and 8%.

This is a nice extra tax the government collects and the more money you have probably the more tax you will pay.

Governments need various streams of taxing these days and GST is a fairly new one, basically based on consumption.

Income tax is still the big one and businesses need to get breaks if you want businesses to reinvest and grow their business.

I am not sure if i understand, this is sure not something I am an expert on, I can only tell you from what I have observed, and my belief that creating jobs and by having prosperous small businesses, will we go forward financially.

Feel free to keep trying if I don't get it.

driver100

My thought on vehicle tax breaks is that it should be capped.

I don't know the rules in the US but in Canada the cost of a car was capped at $30000 when I got my first Jeep in 1995.

For some reason the rules changed and I don't think there is a limit. They probably found that some people actually need expensive cars for their work....in some businesses it is important to look prosperous, for example real estate sales person, mutual fund sales person. Some people need specialty caqrs like a truck. I needed a strong vehicle that could haul a ton, so it is difficult to limit the cost of the car. I think the government realized this and thought it won't matter that much in the big scheme of things any way, so just do it as a straight tax deduction. I shouldn't call it a break, that sounds like it is a gift...it is a deduction because the car is a necessary item to carry on your business.

If you drive up in an old Pontiac Aztec your chances of being successful aren't too good.

fezo

Maybe the donor was a Yankee fan.

Not a chance...

snakeweasel

I was responding to graphicguy, I was just quoting what he posted that I was responding to.

No need to be sorry, it happens in forums and part of the experience. Plus it keeps the post count up and hence our dues go down.

kyfdx

Hey now.. Let's not start taxing real estate.... I just bought some apartments...

And... regarding writing off luxury vehicles... there is a limit on how much you can depreciate a car for business.. I think the caps kick in around $25K-$30K MSRP.. However, you can write off as large a lease payment as you want.. Which explains why most of the expensive models are leased..

roadburner

I would enjoy reading one of your reviews of more normal vehicles for the rest of us. I have a feeling you would be more practical than many of the "test drivers" who write for magazines and some of the newspapers here.

Well, due to space constraints I usually just give a capsule summary. Here's the full text of the Optima review:

Kia Optima SX Turbo: The stylish Optima is aimed at the mid-sized sedan market, and pretty much hits its mark. It is handsome, relatively quick, and packed with features that were only found on the most expensive luxury cars a few years ago. Voice activated navigation, heated/cooled/seats, the SX has them all. I was especially impressed by the interior(Kia hired away one of Audi's chief designers and the result is evident here). EPA mileage is 22/34. Best of all, the Optima Turbo costs less than $31,000, and comes with Kia's 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. Be aware, that the Optima is not a sports sedan, but having said that I'd note that it is no less fun to drive than the new BMW 528i- which is certainly no sports sedan either.

And next month's look at a Cruze Eco:

Chevrolet Cruze Eco: A very nice little car. I sampled the six speed manual version and found it to be responsive and comfortable. The interior was attractive and appeared well designed and put together. The EPA mpg numbers are 28 city and 42 highway, and you can take one home for less than $20,000. It deserves serious consideration if you want a smaller car that is economical to drive yet doesn't feel cheap.

driver100

Well, due to space constraints I usually just give a capsule summary. Here's the full text of the Optima review:

Those reviews are excellent. Clear and concise and the points we really need to know. I do get more out of your reviews than I do out of a lot of the ones I read.

Maybe you could list all the cars you reviewed, and then print them for us if someone wants to look at it. For example, I'd be curious about your thoughts on a Passat and a Fusion, although it is unlikely you have reviewed them, the Passat at least-it kind of gets forgotten.

driver100

Hey now.. Let's not start taxing real estate.... I just bought some apartments...

Apartments for investments? Probably a good time to do that.

Taxing real estate would really slow down the economy....it's hard enough to sell property. And, if you are buying apartments as investments you need tax deductions to cover your expenses, or it just wouldn't be a viable investment.

However, you can write off as large a lease payment as you want.. Which explains why most of the expensive models are leased..

That's the way it was here too. But, I guess the government realized whether you lease or own you should be able to claim a car if you use it for business. So, you get the same tax deduction whether you own or lease, and I believe they removed the cieling on the cost of the car.

If we think about it, lets say a financial guy (like the guys in Margin Call that I watched last night, and was a fictional account of the big bank meltdown) are making a few $100,000 a year need a car for business, why should they be capped at buying a Yugo. They need to drive Jaguars and Ferraris to maintain their image.

oldfarmer50

"...I just bought some apartments..."

Businessman side: Good for you, I hope you are successful.

Union guy side : greedy capitalist! You should rent them out at cost! :mad:

gogiboy

RB--

I'm expecting your review of the Scion fr-s soon since I know that it hits at least a few of your sweet spots (rear wheel drive, under $25K). Even the Toyo/Scion dealership in my decidedly small town of 45,000 has one on the lot and it's on the lot and they're allowing test drives unlike a lot of new sporty cars. The kid at the local convenience store has been lusting after one (he's been bending my wife's ear for months) and they let him test drive it even though he is about as far from being able to purchase that car as one can get.

It's not a bad looking car from the exterior, but the interior is decidedly low-rent if you ask me--pretty spartan with a lot of cheap materials. I much prefer my 20 year old MR2. Looks like the interior was where some major corners were cut to keep costs down. Not really my cup of tea and who knows how it will fare against the lower end Mustangs and Camaros--or are those even the buyers who will cross-shop? Maybe Scion/Subaru hope to get market from Mazda(speed), VW GTI, Civic SI and that crowd although those are all front wheel drive cars.

Does the fact that it's been there for almost 3 weeks and still hasn't sold mean anything? It's black so I wouldn't think the color is awful although it's bloody hot here.

Gogiboy

roadburner

Those reviews are excellent. Clear and concise and the points we really need to know. I do get more out of your reviews than I do out of a lot of the ones I read.

Thanks for the kind words; I'll keep posting the evaluations. I don't write all that many, but I hope to increase that number in the future.

roadburner

I'm expecting your review of the Scion fr-s soon since I know that it hits at least a few of your sweet spots (rear wheel drive, under $25K).

I'll try my best...

roadburner

I don't think that the new 5er is a bad car; I just prefer a harder edge in my cars. I think that the new 3 Series would be perfect for me- at least in 328i M Sport guise.

More observations on the 5er:
Start/Stop doesn't bother me all that much.
Eco Pro mode is awkward around town. It upshifts so early the motor is almost always lugging.
Aside from Eco Pro, the automatic box is excellent.
Bravo for including an oil temperature gauge- especially since it doesn't appear to be buffered.
The interior is much more attractive and functional compared to its predecessor.
Handling is quite good, but Munich has built in an extra layer of isolation.
You can't appreciate how good the current iDrive interface works if you haven't experienced each previous incarnation; the first couple of generations were just abysmal.

To me I think BMW has moved each series up the company's food chain; the 3 is now sized and performs like the 5 of a decade ago while the new 5 now has 7 Series levels of refinement and comfort. Which goes a long way towards explaining my preferences...

driver100

3 is now sized and performs like the 5 of a decade ago while the new 5 now has 7 Series levels of refinement and comfort.

Once again, I think your comments are right on. One thing is I would never use Eco Pro in the city, it is just to lame, it is good for cruising on the highway, and it will give you better mileage but by sacrificing power.

I'm not crazy about the stop/start but, I think it does make a big difference for gas mileage, especially for long lights or if a train is going by.

I am pretty sure in Canada you can't get the various modes unless you get a 335. It was almost a year ago when I tested the 528 without the different driving modes, and my impression was the same....might as well be driving a sofa.

Actually, you may be surprised if you drive the new 3 Series, steering is lighter than previous models, and the ride is a bit softer, so what you said about a 3 becoming a 5 is even truer. I am pretty sure I read that as the population is aging, and BMW wants to increase market share, they are trying to cater to a larger percentage of the population, but they can't lose the things they do best. It's a hard act to do, and although there are compromises, I think you do get used to them.

driver100

Union guy side : greedy capitalist! You should rent them out at cost!

lol, but too true!

stickguy

here's a nice looking 3 series, with the correct number of pedals.

shortage of details and pictures in the ad of course.

http://www.millersubaru.com/used/BMW/2008-BMW-328-bf44aedd0a0a000200bb5aa9f04839- ce.htm

oldfarmer50

I know this is a dumb question but what does the "i" stand for? I get "x" for AWD but the "i" always puzzled me. :confuse:

stickguy

I thought it originally (in the old days) indicated fuel injection. Now, damned if I know!

fezo

I think it still stands for fuel injection which makes it kind of silly at this point.

stickguy

looks like you can get a pretty good price on V6 outbacks. Just checking good old Fitz, a 3.6r limited with moonroof package, MSRP $34,115, super secret internet email price of ~$30,800. Lot of car for the money, and equipment wise, pretty darned equal to the Acura. but way cheaper.

Now, will the wife like it?