might have to accidentally drive by the dealer and accidentally turn in... Never know what will happen if she tries one out!
I think it would be an excellent idea to take a no obligation test drive. When I drove my first BMW I couldn't believe the difference...compared to any car I had ever driven.
I always say it can't hurt to just try it....at least you will know whether it is worth considering or whether you should cross it off your list of possibles.
Yeah, those must have come from Edmunds fans. Hard to explain that huge difference between Edmunds and KBB values. I see people asking KBB for these old beaters and the ad keeps getting reposted over and over for months. Something wrong there.
Good call from you and explorerx4 on the repainting. I would have missed that. Those SHO Taurus models are becoming rare. That's the only reason it caught my interest. The car style by itself is pretty ugly.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Last night I noticed that one of the rear A/C ducts in the center console was broken. I called my service adviser and asked him if he thought it could be covered under warranty. His reply? "No problem; I'll go ahead and order the parts. That way we can install it when you bring the car in for its next regular service."
With that type of service and your love for BMW’s in general you’d have to be put on trial, in a county out of your jurisdiction, if you bought anything anywhere else.
Continued good luck with that guy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I looked at a couple of SHOs and the license plate bracket was painted to match the car like the one you posted, so it may have not been repainted.
It looks like it wasn't that taken care of, but.... and a big plus on SHOs is it appears original. Many of these are modded out and driven hard.
IMHO if you want an SHO the 92-95 models are much better. The 96+ models had an issue with the cam sprockets not staying on the camshafts. The fix is to tear down the engine and reinforce this with a weld. I wouldn't buy a 96+ unless this has been done to the engine. If the cam separates the valves don't open, pistons hit the valves and the engine can be ruined.
I wanted to congratulate you on that beautiful red BMW. The color combination is excellent. Though I really liked the design of the Countryman Mini, I have to say that you purchased a much better vehicle in terms of quality and performance (Yes, Driver it is me saying that.). You have always enjoyed the BMW line of cars, and both you and your wife will enjoy the years of driving this new one. It speaks well of you both that you took your time in making this important decision.
I think that treatment from dealers is a definite factor in our decisions. For example, after your wife called regarding the return of the Mini, it was ridiculous for the dealer to quote a new price that was $300 higher than the original price. Having been purchased, even briefly by another party, would indicate to me that a reduction in price would have been in order---at least $500 to $1,000 off the original quote. Regardless of time or treatment of the car by the new owner, the fact that it was purchased made it even more used.
As you may recall, it was treatment by a dealer that brought me to this site some years ago. I really liked the Toyota convertible (same color combination as your new one) but his treatment of what happened to me was unethical and insulting. Because of the experience, it has made me feel that I would never want to purchase a Toyota for as long as I live. It's unfortunate, but these things do leave a lasting impression.
GG, I read about your experience not only with interest, but with compassion and empathy for what you've been going through in that situation. As I read of your plight, I could begin to feel my stomach churning and a feeling of anger emerging. Once you have been in a similar situation, you just hate for it to happen to someone else. I felt the same way when Jmonroe went through his ordeal. I do hope that your meeting today goes well and that you receive some satisfaction from this ordeal. Though I realize that it is taking some time and expense on your part to attend this meeting, I really admire your effort to hold this company to some level of responsibility.
Regardless of the outcome of the meeting, I want you to move forward after this and just close out the issue. Life is so short and once you have done your best to solve a problem, you just have to back away and cut your losses as best as you can. It's a little like this old house that we loved and purchased. I hate that it needs the new roof and the new plumbing line, but I have solved the problem to the best of my ability. Once done, life will be better and we will enjoy the place. I don't feel that the previous owner was quite ethical in his disclosures of the house, and I don't feel that the inspectors did their best job. Still, I try to look on the bright side. I have the money to rectify the issues, and the problems do have solutions.
Best of luck and let us know how the meeting went.
Oldfarmer, it is amazing what a steam clean of the engine and some new paint can do to cover up the defects in a car. I think that the floor mats and the tag frame tell a story of a life of horror and many dark hours on lonely dirt roads.
I have the money to rectify the issues, and the problems do have solutions.
That's been my method of correcting problems for years. Throw enough money at it and any problem will vanish. New trumps old, Happy trumps sad, where there's a bankroll, there's a solution
been way too much talk of new cars lately. It is bumming me out, since we are on hold for at least a few months.
so as a diversion, we are moving ahead with out hall bathroom redo (the only part of the house that has not been done, and man, you can tell!). Went out today to pick out stuff for it. Settled on all the bath parts/pieces, and that actually came out cheaper than what we initially speced out. I was shocked.
then, swung by the stone shop we got all our granite at last year to see if they had the specific stone my daughter wanted (she is designing "her" bathroom, and doing a fine job at it). Turns out, they had some in the remnant yard (only need a 2x5 slab). And even better, they had a leftover the right size, at my favorite price:
Free! yes, tagged as Free Stone. of course, you still pay for template/fabrication/installation, but all that only came to a tick over $500. Free because it was already fabricated with edges, etc. and they just want to move it out. Thankfully they can cut a rectangle big enough out of the middle.
so, that is on hold, the bath place has the order pending (tub, vanity, toilet, and all the faucet stuff), and the granite is on hold. Now, just need the contractor to give me the labor quote to do the work, and if that comes in where I expect, we will give it the go sign, and with any luck should pretty much be done by labor day.
perfect timing, because that is right around when the Hyundai my wife is waiting for should arrive, so we can see what is left in the budget, and order what she wants.
I'm often struck by how similar our tastes are in so many areas--maybe it's an age thing since I'm close to you at 55. I too nearly bought a MS3, but opted for the less potent Mazda3 instead.
Like you and Richard I have been smitten by the new Countryman. However, I think you made the right decision given your long track record with BMW, your good working relationship with your dealer and service tech and your obvious love of the brand. Furthermore, Edmunds and other sites are rife with owner complaints about the 2011 and 2012 Countrymans--mostly minor stuff, but made more frustrating because parts are not in stock, which keeps owners waiting for weeks, sometimes months while parts are sent from Germany.
I think I'd be more tempted to get one in a year or two if they work out the kinks, if parts seem in generous supply stateside and only if the dealers have a major attitude adjustment. It's a cool sort of niche car, but that can be both a positive and a negative. Like you, I'd also like to see how they age--if even over three-five years.
Eight years... no cars. One month.. two new cars. The circle is now complete. :P
After contimplating buying a new 2012 Honda Accord lease, the old (frugal) jipster returned just in time, darn it. I bought a one owner 2007 Kia Optima LX with 74,000 miles. No way I'd ever think I'd have a Hyundai and Kia in my driveway. How times have changed.
The private party seller had car listed at $6,950, quoting Kelley Blue Book, and saying he had discounted it already, from $7,950 due to some chips in paint and superficial scratches. I can take care of that. I did the "Edmunds Host" speil about how Edmunds uses true market value prices that are more accurate than the propaganda machine that KBB is.
Edmunds was at $6,500 (clean condition), so I got seller to lower his price to $6,250. A potential savings of $700. So, Edmunds helped me get a better deal! (Now if that testimonial don't get me lower monthly dues, a free t-shirt, or maybe a free dinner with my favorite hostess with the mostest... Kirstie, ... then I don't know what will)
Private seller with records, had done the 30k and 60k mile service at Kia. Very difficult to find 5-6 year old cars with decent mileage on them. The 2007 Kia Optima is the newly designed model. I believe has the same engine as the 4 cyl Sonata, same platform. Reliability ratings were good. Performance ratings were good. Safty ratings excellent. Ride is comfortable, gas mileage 24 city/32 hwy... much better.Certainly doesnt measure up to class leaders Accord, Altima or Camry. But, a lot of car for the money.
Anyhow, guess I'll have another 2 stories for you guys in about 8 years. Tally Ho! :P
we bought our 2 hondas (both 2005s) in December 2004 and Dec. 2005. One was replaced earlier this year, and with any luck, the other will go by Christmas. I have bought a lot of cars right before Christmas for some reason.
been way too much talk of new cars lately. It is bumming me out
stick, you're obviously younger than us old geezers that pinched pennies for years to get where we are. I drove that same Olds Cutlass 4 door with electrical tape over the orange check engine light for many years.
Finally was able to trade it for a Cadillac (still used) and make all those poor days seem like there was light at the end of the tunnel when the dealer made a $400 mistake in my favor and wouldn't listen when I told him about it.
We lived thru the Jimmy Carter days of high inflation, 20% interest, and groceries doubling in price monthly. We learned from it. And now before it happens again on an even larger scale, we're spending while our retirement dough still has some buying power.
gas mileage 24 city/32 hwy... much better.Certainly doesnt measure up to class leaders Accord, Altima or Camry
Reliability, and safety are excellent so a little lower gas mileage is not a big deal. You got what sounds like a great deal....just over $6K for a car that should give you many years of good service.
OK, big spender, looks like you have gotten over the $30K shock! You're on a roll.
Best of luck, sounds like a nice clean car and great transportation for the price.
That's quite a spread on such a new car. I ran my 2008 through both recently and they came within $100. Usually spreads like that only show up on older cars. Interesting. I wonder how many sellers have waited months without selling by insisting on KBB values.
Oh, I have to ask, did you leave the seller in tears after hitting him with "The Jipst Method"?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well, we are home now and it was nice to get into the 535 once again - after driving the Impala. Believe me, it's not just about the badge. Even my wife notices the difference from the passenger seat. For example, the seats are tilted forward in the Impala (and her purse falls forward onto the floor), seats are shorter in Impala, she can't see the hood at all in the Impala and if she can't see where the hood is she definitely wouldn't buy it. The seating position isn't quite right, steering wheel sticks out a long way from instruments.
Also, the controls for heat and wipers, lights, a/c etc were similar to the ones on my 1992 Cavalier, not much progress. They tried to modernize it a bit with white on black speedometer etc., but, it just isn't quite up to date.
Anxious to hear how GG did with the Audi :confuse:
"We lived thru the Jimmy Carter days of high inflation, 20% interest, and groceries doubling in price monthly. We learned from it."
Mako--
In anyone's wildest dreams in 79, 80, 81 would an interest rate of 4% on a home loan have been thinkable? Now I see that a 15 year fixed is 2.75%. Simply amazing! Even car loans from credit unions are under 2%.
That's certainly one big difference between the current recession and that recession. The flip side is no one can make any money on traditional savings vehicles either. Definitely a good time to have a job.
Ya know I'm thinking just how much nicer my car would look with a proper wax job - and I'm only a days drive from Pittsburgh.......
If you put the top up on the Solara you’ll cut down the drag and you should be able to cut that time in half. Going home after the wax job you can leave the top down because the drag will no longer be a factor. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Close in age? I'm 55 too! If the Mini dealer was a part of the same dealer group as the BMW dealer we probably would have gone with a Countryman- we could have even chosen our BMW salesperson to make the deal. My Mazda had some annoying teething issues for the first 60,000 or so miles but it has been totally reliable over the last 44,000 miles. It's actually worked its way back into my good graces. The local dealers are all but hopeless, and that's my only issue with the car- and it's not really the car's fault.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Thanks stickguy, olderfarmer, jmonroe, driver and stickguy.
Yes, Hopefully my shopping days are over for at least the next 3 years. I suppose if I drive the car for 3 years, then if I decide to sell I may get around 3 grand out of it.
Farmer, the spread is just a little off from what I reported. KBB has the 2007 Optima at $7,786 and Edmunds at $6,603. I wish I could have seen a tear or two from the seller, would have reminded me of the good ole days when the jipster was in his prime. He seemed pretty happy when I handed him that certified check. :sick:
jmonroe, heart palpatations not as bad with this car, though if I had a EKG the other day I'm sure it would be a little off from normal. Not looking forward to waxing all that metal on the two new cars.
gg, yeah, I may have to make a brief apparance at the CCBA club. This 4 week buying spree may be hard to top. :P
I stopped at the Kia store the other day to pick up some touch up paint. I picked up Kia's maintenance guide for their new car buyers. WOW, and you thought the requirements for Hyundais extended powertrain warranty was bad. This is Hannibal Lector horrible. Listen (read) to this: 3,000 mile oil changes, rotate tires every 6,000 miles,, engine oil flush every 12,000 miles, rotate and balance all tires every 12k miles..., transmission service, spark plugs wiper, cabin air filter, front end alignment every 30,000 miles. All of that with the various inspections.
Prices for above: 3k miles service is $27... 6k miles srvice is $64... 9k mile service is $27... 12k mile service is $139... 15k mile service $100... 18k mile service is $64...24k mile service is $139... and their 30k mile service is $389. Their 60k mile srvice recommendation goes for a meager $499 (Only $799 is you get timing belt replaced)
On bottom of every page is "Recommendations for local conditions and climate". Which pretty much means if you don't follow the severe service and Kia service recommendation, any warranty claims may be denied.
This Kia Store Group is pretty slick. They own every Kia store within a hundred mile radius of Louisville. They run t.v and radio ads almost nonstop. $600 advertising fee tacked on to every new car purchase. They use to run that $1,400 security system scam on every new car (Kia saleman I talked to quit because he said the system only cost them $200 and ethically he just couldnt do it) .
When I asked the guy I bought my Kia from why he paid $$800 for the 60k mile servicey, he replied, "because Kia wont honor my warranty if I don't". Pretty sad.
Don't know legally if the Kia store could deny any warranty claim based on buyer not following the servere service recommendation schedule or their recommendation. The criteria is so vague. i.e Anyone driving in cold or hot and humid climates are to follow the severe schedule. That would cover about 90% of the population wouldnt it?
This is the kind of story that should be on 60 minutes! A big ripoff if you ask me.
edited: I added it all up. It's $3,004 to follow Kia's maintenance guide for 90k miles. Yeah, you need the oil changes, maybe some of that other stuff if dirty. But requiring engine oil flushes, alignments, rotatle and balance? On the plus side, they do have free shuttle service and early bird drop off. :sick:
We lived thru the Jimmy Carter days of high inflation, 20% interest, and groceries doubling in price monthly.
Doubling monthly? Really? Do you even know what it means? Obviously you don't so here it is: 2100% per year, i.e. everything rises 22 times in one year. It was bad, I'm sure, but there is no reason to use hyperbole, real situation is bad enough.
I actually lived through couple of years of triple digit inflation (I was a kid, but still remember) in my old country and believe me - Carter's time would look like sea of calm, stability and responsibility in comparison. And even that was not "doubling monthly".
This is the kind of story that should be on 60 minutes! A big ripoff if you ask me.
That would make a good subject for 60 Minutes, because it sounds like a complete scam. I am glad you took the time to list the costs and conditions, and even added it up.
It's really weird, they tell you to service the car one way if you just buy the car, but, you have to do all that extra service if you want the warranty to be extended. If warranties are that convoluted, I just wouldn't bother with them.
Audi has some kind of warranty on the motor oil...you get something like $1300 worth of work done for $760. I think you would have to get an oil change every month to come out ahead on that one. We signed all the papers after 5 pm closing time, so we said we'll hear about it when we pick up the car....I think you have convinced me to just avoid any warranties...I will take my chances, and fall on my sword if I have to.
It's the dealerships listing for recommended services, not corporates.
Of course, the dealer is counting on the customer NOT to know that.
I remember laughing at a Honda dealer's claim that I shouldn't pay attention to the maintenance schedule for my Accord in the owner's manual, because "Honda didn't even write that." But after spending unnecessary minutes trying to figure out how to change a headlight bulb in my Volvo only to find out it's not set up like it's depicted in the manual, I'm not so sure anymore.
"...pretty happy when I handed him that certified check..."
Where did you do the actual funds transfer, did you go to his house, a bank or some other location?
In days gone by people had no trouble with checks, particularly certified checks but today scammers can print stuff on the computer that even fools the bank. Later when it bounces the bank charges your account and you're screwed.
I guess the only way to avoid all scams is to deal in cash (which has it's own problems) or go to the buyer's bank and watch him get the check from own account.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But if inflation was 21% you were actually losing money. It's only the gain relative to inflation that matters.
I know a guy who bought 30 year treasury bills which in 1979 paid something like 18% interest. He held on to them long after inflation declined and made a killing over the years. At the time people thought he was nuts.
We were saving for a house back then and inflation was so bad that every time we saved up an additional $1000, housing prices would go up $2000. Very frustrating. That was what lead us to build our house ourselves rather than buy in a development. Banks back then wouldn't even give you an application let alone a mortgage.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
jipster....those service requirements are a huge ripoff. Definitely a topic that some entity would/should investigate. Maybe one of those "investigative reporter" depts that local news agencies sometimes use?
OK...the outcome of the Audi S4 debacle.
Drove to Chicago from Cincinnati Friday after work. Got there about 10:30 p.m....tired. Checked into the hotel, went to their bar, had a couple of beers and chicken wings, and was done for the night. Nothing like eating, and drinking alone on a Friday night, in a city I don't live in, knowing no one. How sad is that?
Next morning, up early, did a little 1.5 mile brisk walk to the nearest Starbucks to get properly caffeinated to prepare for the upcoming session. Back to the hotel, shower, pack. Checked the S4's MPG for grins for the trip (probably went 80 MPH on the highway)....27.6 MPG. Can't complain about that.
Audi store opens at 9:30 a.m. VP says he'll meet me first thing at the store.
9:30 comes and I'm sitting in their parking lot as they open their doors. I get out, am greeted by the GM and another gentleman. We shake hands, the new person is introduced. As you probably guessed, he's the Autonation VP.
We enter into the conference room. Clearly, there was a meeting (sales?) earlier as there was a platter half full of donuts, and an empty coffee pot on the table...."want a donut"?
"I'm good, thanks!"
VP goes first...."so, I know what you've told me regarding your car. I've talked to Customer Service at Audi, and have talked to the dealerships where you live."
He reviewed what he'd learned from them. Of course, they aren't going to admit to any untoward handling of my situation. And, they certainly had a different version of the truth (OK, they had very little in the way of truth in their version of events as they unfolded with my GF and I).
My turn..... (paraphrasing)
"I've driven over 1,000 miles to buy this car, and to come here to talk to you. So, I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not going to regurgitate all that I've reported, to your dealership, the dealerships at home, nor with Audi Corporate. I've relayed the events at least a dozen times between talking to dealer personnel, Audi corporate personnel, and to admin people trying to get to people who could do something about my situation. Bottom line, the Audi dealerships at home failed miserably, Audi corporate failed miserably, and I'm really tired of being treated like I need to be minimized as an Audi customer."
VP...."I didn't come here to be confrontational with you. I certainly understand your frustration. We can rehash everything and you can tell me your side of the story. But, I'm here to make a happy customer. What is it you want?"
GG..."the way I see this, no matter what happens here, I still have to go back home in something. And, I still have to get whatever vehicle I end up in serviced back at home. So, I've had great success with BMWs. I hear Mercedes has a great rep for their reliability. Still, I really liked the combination of performance, luxury and handling of the S4."
VP...."I have a choice of brands that Autonation carries. I drive an A6. I love Audis. I can tell you your situation is certainly the very rare exception and not the rule. I have a proposal. You like the S4. What if we just swap it out for you?"
GG-"meaning?"
VP-"Let's see what they have here, in stock....see if we can do a swap?"
He gets the stock report. They have 2-2012s and 1-2013. One of the 2012s is a demo. The 2013 is white. I have 3 colors (sometimes 4, if I'm in a blue mood)...white, black, red. Call the GF. She said she likes white, too.
GG..."let's see the white one".
They have it brought around, open it up. I test the electronics. Look at the wheels.....take it for a brief trip around the block. Everything seems right.
I come back, the VP asks..."if I include Audi Care (Audi's maintenance program...that offers many more oil changes than BMW's paid maintenance does) and do an even swap, would you be happy?"
GG-no money out of my pocket? A real even swap?"
VP-"Yes"
GG-"what about service. I still have to have it serviced back at the dealerships back home."
VP-"let me contact the Audi Service VP. He and I have known each other for awhile. He'll make sure you're taken care of."
GG-"I can live with that".
This is the way this should have gone from the beginning. Kudos to Westmont Audi and Autonation. Stand up people who really do care about customer service. The rest of this "stuff" at my local dealers was totally unnecessary. It did little more than to swear off buying anything from any of their dealerships (including Audi). For those who care, the "bad guys" are Audi Connection (Joseph Auto Group) and Beechmont Audi (don't know who owns them).
Got home. GF is happy. I'm tired, but glad there was a positive resolution.
Now, the GF is getting to really like driving the 335i. I can drive the S4 for awhile. Works for me.
Very glad this all worked out for you, GG. It is nice to see that your selling dealer stepped up to the plate and made it right without any hassle. I can think of worse cars to be "stuck" driving for the time being!
Best of luck, again!
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
I think the Audi thing is completely different - first, if it is anything like BMW, the car tells you when change the oil, so they can't scam you into severe schedule crap if you don't have severe driving. Second, it is not warranty, but prepaid service and it is Audi-endorsed, I believe, which means it is equivalent of BMW's "free" (included in price) maintenance service for 4 years. Last, I believe, if you lease it actually raises the residual (or lowers money factor, one of those two), so you get some money back in form of a discount on the financial side, if you lease.
I may be wrong about these points, it is what I read on Audi discussion groups some time ago - the deal may have changed and it may not be what you've purchased. The price "savings" on schedule are of course in assumption of dealer prices, which as we all know are outrageous for German lux brands, but if you intended to do it there, it could be a real save.
Congrats, GG. I must say, it just sounds like the transmission job on my former 2003 WRX - no admitting error (so statistics still intact), but taking care of the issue at hand. The only sad thing is, there will be a poor sap after you buying your former car, now used, probably certified (with no fixes, of course) and he will have to deal with that. But that is not your problem anymore, or perhaps it will turn different, like some kind of dealer trade and another service dept. would actually take care car of it - who knows, miracles happen.
Glad you were able to get this issue resolved. The logical side of your brain says there is no reason that there was so much resistance. Maybe it was due to dealer/manufacturer politics. One thing that struck me was that one of the dealers said it was to expensive for them to fix. Maybe there is some sort of metric that would have hit them too hard, so the only way to resolve it was to get it bumped up from the local level. I think your GF has a new hero!
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
A while back Michael Connolly was mentioned as a good author. I bought and read about 10 of them in January/February. Going on vacation in a couple of weeks and will need about 5 books. Any recommendations? I'm open to good fiction.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Comments
Isn't the $3k payment the same as $3k down?
The diffenrence in price is mostly the interest on $3K for 3 years....I think :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sorry,Ii didn't see the SHO part. That would make a difference. I still think it sounds like it would be costly to maintain that car.
Anyway, I prefer the previous SHO.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think it would be an excellent idea to take a no obligation test drive. When I drove my first BMW I couldn't believe the difference...compared to any car I had ever driven.
I always say it can't hurt to just try it....at least you will know whether it is worth considering or whether you should cross it off your list of possibles.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good deal!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yeah, those must have come from Edmunds fans. Hard to explain that huge difference between Edmunds and KBB values. I see people asking KBB for these old beaters and the ad keeps getting reposted over and over for months. Something wrong there.
Good call from you and explorerx4 on the repainting. I would have missed that.
Those SHO Taurus models are becoming rare. That's the only reason it caught my interest. The car style by itself is pretty ugly.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
With that type of service and your love for BMW’s in general you’d have to be put on trial, in a county out of your jurisdiction, if you bought anything anywhere else.
Continued good luck with that guy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It looks like it wasn't that taken care of, but.... and a big plus on SHOs is it appears original. Many of these are modded out and driven hard.
IMHO if you want an SHO the 92-95 models are much better. The 96+ models had an issue with the cam sprockets not staying on the camshafts. The fix is to tear down the engine and reinforce this with a weld. I wouldn't buy a 96+ unless this has been done to the engine. If the cam separates the valves don't open, pistons hit the valves and the engine can be ruined.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
You might accidentally take one to the chin.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think that treatment from dealers is a definite factor in our decisions. For example, after your wife called regarding the return of the Mini, it was ridiculous for the dealer to quote a new price that was $300 higher than the original price. Having been purchased, even briefly by another party, would indicate to me that a reduction in price would have been in order---at least $500 to $1,000 off the original quote. Regardless of time or treatment of the car by the new owner, the fact that it was purchased made it even more used.
As you may recall, it was treatment by a dealer that brought me to this site some years ago. I really liked the Toyota convertible (same color combination as your new one) but his treatment of what happened to me was unethical and insulting. Because of the experience, it has made me feel that I would never want to purchase a Toyota for as long as I live. It's unfortunate, but these things do leave a lasting impression.
Enjoy your new ride. I'm happy for you both.
Richard
Regardless of the outcome of the meeting, I want you to move forward after this and just close out the issue. Life is so short and once you have done your best to solve a problem, you just have to back away and cut your losses as best as you can. It's a little like this old house that we loved and purchased. I hate that it needs the new roof and the new plumbing line, but I have solved the problem to the best of my ability. Once done, life will be better and we will enjoy the place. I don't feel that the previous owner was quite ethical in his disclosures of the house, and I don't feel that the inspectors did their best job. Still, I try to look on the bright side. I have the money to rectify the issues, and the problems do have solutions.
Best of luck and let us know how the meeting went.
Richard
Richard
That's been my method of correcting problems for years.
Throw enough money at it and any problem will vanish.
New trumps old, Happy trumps sad, where there's a bankroll, there's a solution
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
so as a diversion, we are moving ahead with out hall bathroom redo (the only part of the house that has not been done, and man, you can tell!). Went out today to pick out stuff for it. Settled on all the bath parts/pieces, and that actually came out cheaper than what we initially speced out. I was shocked.
then, swung by the stone shop we got all our granite at last year to see if they had the specific stone my daughter wanted (she is designing "her" bathroom, and doing a fine job at it). Turns out, they had some in the remnant yard (only need a 2x5 slab). And even better, they had a leftover the right size, at my favorite price:
Free! yes, tagged as Free Stone. of course, you still pay for template/fabrication/installation, but all that only came to a tick over $500. Free because it was already fabricated with edges, etc. and they just want to move it out. Thankfully they can cut a rectangle big enough out of the middle.
so, that is on hold, the bath place has the order pending (tub, vanity, toilet, and all the faucet stuff), and the granite is on hold. Now, just need the contractor to give me the labor quote to do the work, and if that comes in where I expect, we will give it the go sign, and with any luck should pretty much be done by labor day.
perfect timing, because that is right around when the Hyundai my wife is waiting for should arrive, so we can see what is left in the budget, and order what she wants.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm often struck by how similar our tastes are in so many areas--maybe it's an age thing since I'm close to you at 55. I too nearly bought a MS3, but opted for the less potent Mazda3 instead.
Like you and Richard I have been smitten by the new Countryman. However, I think you made the right decision given your long track record with BMW, your good working relationship with your dealer and service tech and your obvious love of the brand. Furthermore, Edmunds and other sites are rife with owner complaints about the 2011 and 2012 Countrymans--mostly minor stuff, but made more frustrating because parts are not in stock, which keeps owners waiting for weeks, sometimes months while parts are sent from Germany.
I think I'd be more tempted to get one in a year or two if they work out the kinks, if parts seem in generous supply stateside and only if the dealers have a major attitude adjustment. It's a cool sort of niche car, but that can be both a positive and a negative. Like you, I'd also like to see how they age--if even over three-five years.
Gogiboy
Eight years... no cars. One month.. two new cars. The circle is now complete. :P
After contimplating buying a new 2012 Honda Accord lease, the old (frugal) jipster returned just in time, darn it. I bought a one owner 2007 Kia Optima LX with 74,000 miles. No way I'd ever think I'd have a Hyundai and Kia in my driveway. How times have changed.
The private party seller had car listed at $6,950, quoting Kelley Blue Book, and saying he had discounted it already, from $7,950 due to some chips in paint and superficial scratches. I can take care of that. I did the "Edmunds Host" speil about how Edmunds uses true market value prices that are more accurate than the propaganda machine that KBB is.
Edmunds was at $6,500 (clean condition), so I got seller to lower his price to $6,250. A potential savings of $700. So, Edmunds helped me get a better deal! (Now if that testimonial don't get me lower monthly dues, a free t-shirt, or maybe a free dinner with my favorite hostess with the mostest... Kirstie,
Private seller with records, had done the 30k and 60k mile service at Kia. Very difficult to find 5-6 year old cars with decent mileage on them. The 2007 Kia Optima is the newly designed model. I believe has the same engine as the 4 cyl Sonata, same platform. Reliability ratings were good. Performance ratings were good. Safty ratings excellent. Ride is comfortable, gas mileage 24 city/32 hwy... much better.Certainly doesnt measure up to class leaders Accord, Altima or Camry. But, a lot of car for the money.
Anyhow, guess I'll have another 2 stories for you guys in about 8 years. Tally Ho! :P
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
we bought our 2 hondas (both 2005s) in December 2004 and Dec. 2005. One was replaced earlier this year, and with any luck, the other will go by Christmas. I have bought a lot of cars right before Christmas for some reason.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
stick, you're obviously younger than us old geezers that pinched pennies for years to get where we are. I drove that same Olds Cutlass 4 door with electrical tape over the orange check engine light for many years.
Finally was able to trade it for a Cadillac (still used) and make all those poor days seem like there was light at the end of the tunnel when the dealer made a $400 mistake in my favor and wouldn't listen when I told him about it.
We lived thru the Jimmy Carter days of high inflation, 20% interest, and groceries doubling in price monthly. We learned from it. And now before it happens again on an even larger scale, we're spending while our retirement dough still has some buying power.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Reliability, and safety are excellent so a little lower gas mileage is not a big deal. You got what sounds like a great deal....just over $6K for a car that should give you many years of good service.
OK, big spender, looks like you have gotten over the $30K shock!
You're on a roll.
Best of luck, sounds like a nice clean car and great transportation for the price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
LOL that sounds like my autobiography!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's quite a spread on such a new car. I ran my 2008 through both recently and they came within $100. Usually spreads like that only show up on older cars. Interesting. I wonder how many sellers have waited months without selling by insisting on KBB values.
Oh, I have to ask, did you leave the seller in tears after hitting him with "The Jipst Method"?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ha ha I had an Olds 88 that I did the same thing on. I suspect that Oldsmobiles came from the factory with that light on. :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Whatever happened to you? It doesn’t sound like those heart palpitations from buying the Veracruz were all that bad, huh?
Congrats. I sure wouldn’t want your car wax bill. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Believe me, it's not just about the badge. Even my wife notices the difference from the passenger seat. For example, the seats are tilted forward in the Impala (and her purse falls forward onto the floor), seats are shorter in Impala, she can't see the hood at all in the Impala and if she can't see where the hood is she definitely wouldn't buy it. The seating position isn't quite right, steering wheel sticks out a long way from instruments.
Also, the controls for heat and wipers, lights, a/c etc were similar to the ones on my 1992 Cavalier, not much progress. They tried to modernize it a bit with white on black speedometer etc., but, it just isn't quite up to date.
Anxious to hear how GG did with the Audi :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Driver....just got back. Should post an update later today. Got to catch much needed R&R for a couple of hours.
RB.....you are so right about having good dealer support on your vehicle. That makes all the differece in the world.
Jipster.....oh yeah....pretty soon you'll be a member of CCBA. Congrats!
Looking forward to reading your update later.
Mako--
In anyone's wildest dreams in 79, 80, 81 would an interest rate of 4% on a home loan have been thinkable? Now I see that a 15 year fixed is 2.75%. Simply amazing! Even car loans from credit unions are under 2%.
That's certainly one big difference between the current recession and that recession. The flip side is no one can make any money on traditional savings vehicles either. Definitely a good time to have a job.
Gogiboy
If you put the top up on the Solara you’ll cut down the drag and you should be able to cut that time in half. Going home after the wax job you can leave the top down because the drag will no longer be a factor. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If the Mini dealer was a part of the same dealer group as the BMW dealer we probably would have gone with a Countryman- we could have even chosen our BMW salesperson to make the deal.
My Mazda had some annoying teething issues for the first 60,000 or so miles but it has been totally reliable over the last 44,000 miles. It's actually worked its way back into my good graces. The local dealers are all but hopeless, and that's my only issue with the car- and it's not really the car's fault.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Yes, Hopefully my shopping days are over for at least the next 3 years. I suppose if I drive the car for 3 years, then if I decide to sell I may get around 3 grand out of it.
Farmer, the spread is just a little off from what I reported. KBB has the 2007 Optima at $7,786 and Edmunds at $6,603. I wish I could have seen a tear or two from the seller, would have reminded me of the good ole days when the jipster was in his prime. He seemed pretty happy when I handed him that certified check. :sick:
jmonroe, heart palpatations not as bad with this car, though if I had a EKG the other day I'm sure it would be a little off from normal. Not looking forward to waxing all that metal on the two new cars.
gg, yeah, I may have to make a brief apparance at the CCBA club. This 4 week buying spree may be hard to top. :P
Prices for above: 3k miles service is $27... 6k miles srvice is $64... 9k mile service is $27... 12k mile service is $139... 15k mile service $100... 18k mile service is $64...24k mile service is $139... and their 30k mile service is $389. Their 60k mile srvice recommendation goes for a meager $499 (Only $799 is you get timing belt replaced)
On bottom of every page is "Recommendations for local conditions and climate". Which pretty much means if you don't follow the severe service and Kia service recommendation, any warranty claims may be denied.
This Kia Store Group is pretty slick. They own every Kia store within a hundred mile radius of Louisville. They run t.v and radio ads almost nonstop. $600 advertising fee tacked on to every new car purchase. They use to run that $1,400 security system scam on every new car (Kia saleman I talked to quit because he said the system only cost them $200 and ethically he just couldnt do it) .
When I asked the guy I bought my Kia from why he paid $$800 for the 60k mile servicey, he replied, "because Kia wont honor my warranty if I don't". Pretty sad.
Don't know legally if the Kia store could deny any warranty claim based on buyer not following the servere service recommendation schedule or their recommendation. The criteria is so vague. i.e Anyone driving in cold or hot and humid climates are to follow the severe schedule. That would cover about 90% of the population wouldnt it?
This is the kind of story that should be on 60 minutes! A big ripoff if you ask me.
edited: I added it all up. It's $3,004 to follow Kia's maintenance guide for 90k miles. Yeah, you need the oil changes, maybe some of that other stuff if dirty. But requiring engine oil flushes, alignments, rotatle and balance? On the plus side, they do have free shuttle service and early bird drop off. :sick:
Is that the company's listing for the corporate warranty or the store's listing for their warranty?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Doubling monthly? Really? Do you even know what it means? Obviously you don't so here it is: 2100% per year, i.e. everything rises 22 times in one year. It was bad, I'm sure, but there is no reason to use hyperbole, real situation is bad enough.
I actually lived through couple of years of triple digit inflation (I was a kid, but still remember) in my old country and believe me - Carter's time would look like sea of calm, stability and responsibility in comparison. And even that was not "doubling monthly".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It was nice earning 15% on a money market account, though...
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That would make a good subject for 60 Minutes, because it sounds like a complete scam. I am glad you took the time to list the costs and conditions, and even added it up.
It's really weird, they tell you to service the car one way if you just buy the car, but, you have to do all that extra service if you want the warranty to be extended. If warranties are that convoluted, I just wouldn't bother with them.
Audi has some kind of warranty on the motor oil...you get something like $1300 worth of work done for $760. I think you would have to get an oil change every month to come out ahead on that one. We signed all the papers after 5 pm closing time, so we said we'll hear about it when we pick up the car....I think you have convinced me to just avoid any warranties...I will take my chances, and fall on my sword if I have to.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And, I was just wondering where are hosts have been, haven't heard from you guys for awhile....glad your still checking our work.
In those days of 15% interest I didn't have any money...now, that I saved I can't live off my savings
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You're too young to worry about living off of savings!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Of course, the dealer is counting on the customer NOT to know that.
I remember laughing at a Honda dealer's claim that I shouldn't pay attention to the maintenance schedule for my Accord in the owner's manual, because "Honda didn't even write that." But after spending unnecessary minutes trying to figure out how to change a headlight bulb in my Volvo only to find out it's not set up like it's depicted in the manual, I'm not so sure anymore.
Where did you do the actual funds transfer, did you go to his house, a bank or some other location?
In days gone by people had no trouble with checks, particularly certified checks but today scammers can print stuff on the computer that even fools the bank. Later when it bounces the bank charges your account and you're screwed.
I guess the only way to avoid all scams is to deal in cash (which has it's own problems) or go to the buyer's bank and watch him get the check from own account.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But if inflation was 21% you were actually losing money. It's only the gain relative to inflation that matters.
I know a guy who bought 30 year treasury bills which in 1979 paid something like 18% interest. He held on to them long after inflation declined and made a killing over the years. At the time people thought he was nuts.
We were saving for a house back then and inflation was so bad that every time we saved up an additional $1000, housing prices would go up $2000. Very frustrating. That was what lead us to build our house ourselves rather than buy in a development. Banks back then wouldn't even give you an application let alone a mortgage.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
OK...the outcome of the Audi S4 debacle.
Drove to Chicago from Cincinnati Friday after work. Got there about 10:30 p.m....tired. Checked into the hotel, went to their bar, had a couple of beers and chicken wings, and was done for the night. Nothing like eating, and drinking alone on a Friday night, in a city I don't live in, knowing no one. How sad is that?
Next morning, up early, did a little 1.5 mile brisk walk to the nearest Starbucks to get properly caffeinated to prepare for the upcoming session. Back to the hotel, shower, pack. Checked the S4's MPG for grins for the trip (probably went 80 MPH on the highway)....27.6 MPG. Can't complain about that.
Audi store opens at 9:30 a.m. VP says he'll meet me first thing at the store.
9:30 comes and I'm sitting in their parking lot as they open their doors. I get out, am greeted by the GM and another gentleman. We shake hands, the new person is introduced. As you probably guessed, he's the Autonation VP.
We enter into the conference room. Clearly, there was a meeting (sales?) earlier as there was a platter half full of donuts, and an empty coffee pot on the table...."want a donut"?
"I'm good, thanks!"
VP goes first...."so, I know what you've told me regarding your car. I've talked to Customer Service at Audi, and have talked to the dealerships where you live."
He reviewed what he'd learned from them. Of course, they aren't going to admit to any untoward handling of my situation. And, they certainly had a different version of the truth (OK, they had very little in the way of truth in their version of events as they unfolded with my GF and I).
My turn..... (paraphrasing)
"I've driven over 1,000 miles to buy this car, and to come here to talk to you. So, I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not going to regurgitate all that I've reported, to your dealership, the dealerships at home, nor with Audi Corporate. I've relayed the events at least a dozen times between talking to dealer personnel, Audi corporate personnel, and to admin people trying to get to people who could do something about my situation. Bottom line, the Audi dealerships at home failed miserably, Audi corporate failed miserably, and I'm really tired of being treated like I need to be minimized as an Audi customer."
VP...."I didn't come here to be confrontational with you. I certainly understand your frustration. We can rehash everything and you can tell me your side of the story. But, I'm here to make a happy customer. What is it you want?"
GG..."the way I see this, no matter what happens here, I still have to go back home in something. And, I still have to get whatever vehicle I end up in serviced back at home. So, I've had great success with BMWs. I hear Mercedes has a great rep for their reliability. Still, I really liked the combination of performance, luxury and handling of the S4."
VP...."I have a choice of brands that Autonation carries. I drive an A6. I love Audis. I can tell you your situation is certainly the very rare exception and not the rule. I have a proposal. You like the S4. What if we just swap it out for you?"
GG-"meaning?"
VP-"Let's see what they have here, in stock....see if we can do a swap?"
He gets the stock report. They have 2-2012s and 1-2013. One of the 2012s is a demo. The 2013 is white. I have 3 colors (sometimes 4, if I'm in a blue mood)...white, black, red. Call the GF. She said she likes white, too.
GG..."let's see the white one".
They have it brought around, open it up. I test the electronics. Look at the wheels.....take it for a brief trip around the block. Everything seems right.
I come back, the VP asks..."if I include Audi Care (Audi's maintenance program...that offers many more oil changes than BMW's paid maintenance does) and do an even swap, would you be happy?"
GG-no money out of my pocket? A real even swap?"
VP-"Yes"
GG-"what about service. I still have to have it serviced back at the dealerships back home."
VP-"let me contact the Audi Service VP. He and I have known each other for awhile. He'll make sure you're taken care of."
GG-"I can live with that".
This is the way this should have gone from the beginning. Kudos to Westmont Audi and Autonation. Stand up people who really do care about customer service. The rest of this "stuff" at my local dealers was totally unnecessary. It did little more than to swear off buying anything from any of their dealerships (including Audi). For those who care, the "bad guys" are Audi Connection (Joseph Auto Group) and Beechmont Audi (don't know who owns them).
Got home. GF is happy. I'm tired, but glad there was a positive resolution.
Now, the GF is getting to really like driving the 335i. I can drive the S4 for awhile. Works for me.
You told the story very well also.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Best of luck, again!
I may be wrong about these points, it is what I read on Audi discussion groups some time ago - the deal may have changed and it may not be what you've purchased. The price "savings" on schedule are of course in assumption of dealer prices, which as we all know are outrageous for German lux brands, but if you intended to do it there, it could be a real save.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
VP-"Yes"
That is real customer service. When a dealer wants to help they can and you got help; I didn’t. This sounds like the best outcome possible.
GG-"what about service. I still have to have it serviced back at the dealerships back home."
VP-"let me contact the Audi Service VP. He and I have known each other for awhile. He'll make sure you're taken care of."
Hopefully he can help you with this also.
Happy that everything worked out OK for you.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The logical side of your brain says there is no reason that there was so much resistance.
Maybe it was due to dealer/manufacturer politics.
One thing that struck me was that one of the dealers said it was to expensive for them to fix.
Maybe there is some sort of metric that would have hit them too hard, so the only way to resolve it was to get it bumped up from the local level.
I think your GF has a new hero!
I bought and read about 10 of them in January/February.
Going on vacation in a couple of weeks and will need about 5 books.
Any recommendations? I'm open to good fiction.