If I called a guy on Wednesday and he couldn't come until Thursday, I would've moved onto the next guy.
I know the feeling. Years ago the blower on my furnace died in the middle of one the coldest snaps on record. Lows of -15F and highs in the single digits. I needed a repair and FAST. The one guy who could actually come charged me $700 to replace a motor that I discovered later cost about $75. He was there an hour.
If I called a guy on Wednesday and he couldn't come until Thursday, I would've moved onto the next guy.
I knew you were playing devil's advocate, you would have to be insane to think that what the plumber charged was fair....ha ha...I am playing devil's advocate now.
The thing was, they had it all planned so that they keep you hooked until the last possible moment, so that you have no choice.
I have talked to a lot of people about my experience and they all have sad tales of being taken advantage of by plumbers or furnace people. One guy said they have a name for what these companies do...panic syndrome....the customer is in a panic and just wants the thing fixed, and that is when they have you, just like in your situation.
That's why, it is best to have a list of names to call before you are in a panic situation.
Also, I don't mind paying a bit extra for a good reliable job, but $300 an hour is more than a surgeon probably makes!
The thing was, they had it all planned so that they keep you hooked until the last possible moment, so that you have no choice.
I’m sure people here laugh at me when I talk about doing car and house maintenance myself; especially the time I showed Son #2 how to install a water heater. I learned long ago that the job won’t necessarily be done right just because you hire someone to do it. That’s why I learned to do things myself. I wasn’t going to be held hostage for something I could probably screw up better myself than paying someone to screw up for me then paying again to have it done right. I know that DIY stuff isn’t for everyone and if you haven’t learned to do it by the time you’re 40 no sense in learning at that point.
Also, I don't mind paying a bit extra for a good reliable job, but $300 an hour is more than a surgeon probably makes!
I’m surprised that you think the plumbing place should reduce your bill after the job is done and you have had time to think about how much more it costs than what you think it should have cost. That’s the same as buying a car, taking it home, telling people what you paid and finding out you overpaid. I know you wouldn’t think you could get away with that so why do you think the plumber owes you a refund of a couple hundred bucks?
As for having a blower go out on the coldest night of the year, that’s why I have a spare blower. When I replaced my home HVAC system in August 2008 I had a spare blower for my old furnace that I got from a neighbor who replaced his very same furnace about 5 years before I replaced mine.
When the new HVAC was installed I had the following conversation with the installers:
Me: I’m pulling that blower out of there so don’t take it.
They questioned why I wanted it because it wouldn’t fit the new furnace.
Me: Someone around here will need it.
Installer: These are hard to come by today. I’ll give you 50 bucks for this one and 50 for the spare you have.
Me: How about this? I’ll give you both of them and you give me a spare for this new furnace.
Installer: These old blowers are valuable so that I can repair a customer’s old furnace so they don’t have to replace the whole furnace just because it needs a blower. That way the customer can see that I’m not trying to gouge him by forcing a new furnace on them. I get their trust so that in a couple of years when I get a call from them and their heat exchanger is shot and I tell them their furnace now needs replaced, they know I’m telling them the truth. However, I can’t do that even swap with you because the blower in your new furnace costs me more than $100, my price.
Me: OK, never mind.
Installer: How about you give me both of your blowers and $75 bucks and I’ll give you a new blower for your furnace. I don’t have it on the truck now but I can send Joey to the warehouse to get it, OK?
Me: Deal.
Could I have negotiated for only $50 difference? Yeah, probably, but I didn’t. Will I really need this spare? I hope not but I’m more than willing to throw away $75 for the peace of mind it gives me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If you tell him that, he will say, "Yes, I know. I used to be a surgeon until all that free health care came along".
At $300 an hour for a 30 hour week, the plumber would make $468,000!
He may as well skipped the 10 years it takes to become a doctor and go straight to plumbers school.
Many doctors have to work weekends and nights and have a lot of responsibility....like having lives in their hands, and could get sued etc. Plumbers....ah, not so much. :P
I’m surprised that you think the plumbing place should reduce your bill after the job is done and you have had time to think about how much more it costs than what you think it should have cost.
By the time they gave me an estimate it is about 2 p.m. on Thursday. Now, I only have one day to find a new plumber and hope he isn't a bigger thief than the first guy. Also, he indicated that this was going to be a massive job, so I thought he would be there until 8 pm doing it and I was glad he came at all.
Then when I see him drive away and check the time it is 3:30! They play on your situation, and in fact I have been told that is exactly what they do, that's why they come late. By then you are desparate and panicking, and just want it fixed.
I have talked to a lot of DIYers since then and they say the work is worth something over and above because of dealing with ABS pipes etc and some welding, and cutting through a beam are worth something. I think $200 an hour or $600 would have been generous for less than 3 hours work.
I'm still wondering about this. Cutting through a beam is not a good thing. Now if he put a round hole through the center of the beam and left at least 75% of it intact, then fine.
Also, he indicated that this was going to be a massive job, so I thought he would be there until 8 pm doing it and I was glad he came at all.
That part looks like you were not told the whole truth but I still don’t think you’re going to get a refund.
I have talked to a lot of DIYers since then and they say the work is worth something over and above because of dealing with ABS pipes etc and some welding, and cutting through a beam are worth something.
Working with ABS pipe is not hard work at all. You use a solvent that melts the plastic. You hold the joint together for not even a minute and the job is done. The joint is essentially welded. Soldering copper tubing/pipe together is more involved and takes much more skill. But its not rocket surgery.
The part that should concern you is how large of a hole was cut in a steel beam of what size. The rule is you don’t do it but there are times when it can’t be avoided. When a hole is cut through a steel support beam the area surrounding the hole has to be reinforced with steel plates on both sides of the beam. Maybe this is the “welding” you are referring to. If not how did your plumber do the job? Because to weld once the ABS plastic pipe is in place, the heat from the welding process would melt the pipe. When holes are cut, copper tubing at a minimum is needed so that the pipe doesn’t melt unless the support plates are welded in place first and then a hole is torched through all three pieces of steel. Take your pick but it has to be supported.
If you want to get on the plumbing outfit, ask them why they cut a hole in a steel support beam and didn’t reinforce it. Let me tell you the answer you’ll probably get, “it’s a small hole relative to the size of the beam (in a house this is extremely unlikely with a drain line) and the hole is close to the end of the beam where it is supported by a wall or a vertical support. You ain’t got nothing to worry about. Your house is not going to cave in”. More than likely it won’t but when you sell the house and a home inspection reveals a hole cut through a support beam, without proper support plates being installed, the seller must make the fix because it’s a safety issue not merely a cosmetic issue that can be negotiated by the seller and buyer. At least that’s the way its done where I live.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
He may as well skipped the 10 years it takes to become a doctor and go straight to plumbers school.
Here in MA, a master plumber is required to take 550 hours of class work over 5 years and work as an apprentice/journeyman for 4 years before getting his license.
Plumbers have lots of responsibility as well - not as much a doctor. Here in MA, only plumbers are legally allowed to work on plumbing - it's a matter of protecting the water distribution system.
Audi is currently trying to weasel out of paying me warranty reimbursement for those repairs covered thanks to their warranty extension letter I received in early December 2011. They are trying to breach that contract stated in the letter to extend the warranty on these parts using the excuse that I should have had the repairs done at Audi since I had already received the letter prior to starting the actual repairs.
Nevermind that my mechanic had already done a code reading and diagnosis of the problem free of charge, and ordered the part from the local audi dealer. They say I should have cancelled my appointment with him and gone to Audi since I had received the letter already in the interim (nevermind a potential restocking fee issue for the already ordered part, and nevermind delaying a repair while using the car as a daily driver by rescheduling a repair with the Audi dealer).
I think Audi's argument and excuses to weasel out of paying for the warranty extension reimbursement are WEAK SAUCE! It reeks of GM and Chrysleresque customer service horribleness. These points greatly outweigh any point they might have:
1) the problem to the part and car occurred prior to receiving the letter. 2) the problem was diagnosed prior to receiving their letter. 3) the part was already ordered prior to receiving their letter. 4) the repair date was already scheduled prior to receiving the letter. 5) the repair was done within a week of getting the letter 6) Audi has taken over 7 months to inform me of the negative decision and denial to my reimbursement request originally sent to them in December 2011 (supposedly a letter I never got was sent out in May 2012 advising me of the adverse decision (or request for more information).
The fact they are trying to weasel out of paying for defective parts with lame excuses is deplorable and lamentable. The key thing to remember here is that the part is obviously defective, I've had to get it fixed twice already, and they stepped up to cover it for 10 years or 120K miles, whichever comes first. For them to try and create excuses and technicalities to not cover repairs on a known "defective" part is just plain dishonest and bad faith.
Now this story is on hold because I told the customer relations rep (female) that I wanted to appeal her decision to a manager or supervisor, and she said she'd get back to me in 2 business days. Hopefully, they get their act together and come to the RIGHT and HONEST decision and simply reimburse me for the money I've already spent. I'm not asking for a dollar more than this defective part has cost me already.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Cutting through a beam is not a good thing. Now if he put a round hole through the center of the beam and left at least 75% of it intact, then fine
I am DIY challenged....I did mean he made the hole larger, he didn't weaken the beam.
Incidentally, the house is 6 years old, the basement is like new, totally clean, and 9 foot ceilings. He was pleasantly surprised he wouldn't have to crawl under the house...if he did that or worked in an old spider filled, dirty basement I think he may have deserved at least $800.
The part that should concern you is how large of a hole was cut in a steel beam of what size
The beam he cut through was a wooden beam if I remember correctly. I'll check it when the supervisor comes tomorrow. There are lots of beams and there are cross hatches to make the beams even stronger....I don't think making the hole larger would have much affect on the strength.
I don't like to watch workman doing their job. I had other work to do anyway. I have a friend who fixes furnaces and air conditioners and he hates it when customers watch him work, and tell him what to do...or just stand there making sure they are getting their moneys worth.
I didn't see him weld, but I could smell what smelled like he did welding. I believe he had to attach the ABS pipe to the main pipe which is metal.
Supy is coming between 8 and 11 tomorrow. I don't expect a refund either. At most a token $100. I won't take it, only a minimum of $300 ot I will write to all the newspapers, radio, TV stations, websites, and print a flyer that I will circulate, and I will have business cards made up and give them to every one I meet. I won't be bought off for $100....I can be bought off for $300.
Here in MA, a master plumber is required to take 550 hours of class work over 5 years
That's only 2 hours a week....big deal. A doctor takes about 10 years and some of that is working about 24 hours a day!
Here in MA, only plumbers are legally allowed to work on plumbing - it's a matter of protecting the water distribution system
It is also a way to limit the number of plumbers entering the field so they can keep their prices higher. There may be times when plumbing is a matter of life or death, but not to the same degree as a doctor. There's no comparison between the training and responsibility a doctor has compared to a plumber.
I have talked to a lot of DIYers since then and they say the work is worth something over and above because of dealing with ABS pipes etc and some welding, and cutting through a beam are worth something.
Because you mentioned "welding" I assumed you were talking about a steel beam that had a hole put through it for the drain line.
The beam he cut through was a wooden beam if I remember correctly. I'll check it when the supervisor comes tomorrow. There are lots of beams and there are cross hatches to make the beams even stronger....I don't think making the hole larger would have much affect on the strength.
I don’t know what “cross hatches” are but I think you might mean the X-bracing put between wooded floor joists that keep them from twisting. If a sizeable hole is put in a wooded beam it still has to be reinforced. Anytime a hole large enough for a drain line is drilled/cut into a supporting wood structure it is weakened. The good news is that it is a lot easier to reinforce a wooden support than a steel one.
I didn't see him weld, but I could smell what smelled like he did welding. I believe he had to attach the ABS pipe to the main pipe which is metal.
He didn’t weld the ABS to the main pipe for obvious reasons. He might have welded a transition piece on the main steel pipe (if steel was the original pipe) to accept the ABS pipe but this is usually done by a rubber collar with a stainless steel band over it that is held in place by large hose clamps. So if this was done I don’t know what you smelled but it could have been the odor from the saw cutting though the existing plastic pipe (if plastic is what you had) where it was prepped before it was connected to the new drain line.
I won't be bought off for $100....I can be bought off for $300.
We all have our price now we know what yours is. Even though you probably won’t get it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don’t know what “cross hatches” are but I think you might mean the X-bracing put between wooded floor joists that keep them from twisting.
You are exactly right, the beams have X-bracing, that would be the correct term. I think the other things you said do make sense too. Maybe I should have watched, but I kind of expect workers to be adults and they should be able to complete a job without me watching them.
Sounds like you could have done the job better than this guy, next time I'll just call you. You can have a nice trip up to Canada, see the Falls, go to a Blue Jays game, and I'll pay you $500 which will cover the cost of the trip. :P
Audi is currently trying to weasel out of paying me warranty reimbursement for those repairs covered thanks to their warranty extension letter
I know we aren't supposed to reply to you, but you can be amusing. First, you come in talking about something like as if we know what is going on....I think you got on the wrong topic possible, maybe you want the Audi section?
To be brief, I think Audi was within their rights to do what they did, since they did send you the letter on time. You could have told your mechanic Audi was going to fix the car and you just received the letter. It would have been extraordinarily nice of them if they paid for your repair, but they didn't have to.
btw, how much was the repair?
Did you ever get the Timex watch issue resolved? Have you bought a new one since then? Have you or a relative been to a Rite Aid store lately?
That's only 2 hours a week....big deal. A doctor takes about 10 years and some of that is working about 24 hours a day!
I'm just pointing out that it's not like anyone can go out and call themselves a plumber. Those two hours a week are on top of having to work in the trade 2000 hours a year.
Yes a doctor has to go through more training than a plumber and well she should. As for the 24 hour a day bit - that's no more. Hospitals realized they were putting patients in danger by having residents work too much.
I deal with plumbers all the time in my job and trust me there are plenty of bad ones. The vast majority are decent, hard working individuals that take their job seriously.
I deal with plumbers all the time in my job and trust me there are plenty of bad ones. The vast majority are decent, hard working individuals that take their job seriously.
I am not putting down plumbers or any tradesman, if I have a good one I will be glad to pay him, and I am a very loyal customer if i am treated fairly. Since I am DIY challenged I admire and respect a true professional tradesperson. I have said, the plumber who came to the house was a professional, he diagnosed the problem and found the way to solve the problem immediately. He did nice neat work.
As far as working a 40 hour week and taking a course that is 2 hours a week extra.....well, that's what lots of people do these days. Doctors also take courses and read up to keep up on the latest techniques and information. When I was teaching I marked papers or wrote out report cards for an hour or two in the evenings. With my own business I often work weekends and evenings - that's just part of life.
I don't feel sorry for somebody putting in 42 hours a week to make what is now $500 an hour!
Interesting, my wife just commented he really worked for 2 hours for $1000. He spent one hour driving back to the plumbing place they have to buy supplies from, when he could have gone to a plumbing store 10 minutes away.
I think maybe we've come in the middle of something that has more of a story to it.
But, just having dealt with Audi, I think what they're saying to you is they can't warrant work that isn't done by one of their franchisees (i.e. and Audi dealership).
There's some sort of extended service contract that Audi issued you? Why? What is the repair in question? What is the part in question? Why was an extended warranty issued by Audi? Doesn't it stipulate that you have to have the warranty work done by one of their authorized dealers? This makes sense as that's the only way they can insure any warranty repair is done correctly, regardless of where you got the part(s).
Hope that helps you at least understand their thinking. Audi can't oversee the correct procedures and the labor quality of an independent mechanic.
driver....I must have missed something with the references to watches?
driver....I must have missed something with the references to watches?
GG, you may have missed andres posts over a year ago when he was complaining Rite Aid wouldn't take back a $7 watch because he didn't have a receipt. He wanted them to dig through old surveilance tapes to see if they could find him buying the watch in question.
Andre was very upset and made sure all his relatives would never shop at Rite Aid again!!!
Hey GG, how is the 2nd Audi performing.
I was thinking about the Audi we are getting, and I think what I like about it, compared to a BMW, is that it isn't quite as slick. It reminds me of what a BMW probably was like about 10 years ago. It's got the characteristics of a European car, which hasn't been compromised by trying to make it more like an American car. I love my 535, but I am anxious to get my hands on our new Audi...be about another month.
I disliked the Louisville Mazda dealers so much that I actually bought my Mazda at Kings Mazda in Cincinnati- and take it there for service as well.
The Louisville dealers I have visited in my short time here have left me with that sleazy feeling. The Hyundai dealer was just a pain when we had to take my wife's Elantra in with a slipping serp belt, which had been put on 2 months earlier at a Hyundai dealer back in NC. Slow and poor communication about what they could and couldn't do for us.
The Volvo dealer is frikkin expensive, probably 30-50% more for the same services compared to the one back in NC. And they always manage to "find" stuff that is "just maintenance" while I was still under my extended warranty. Now that's expired anyway, so it's probably going to be the independent Volvo shop from here on out.
In that way, I'm only slightly looking forward to shopping for the replacement for the wife's Elantra next year. Might need a shower after each test drive.
Now that's expired anyway, so it's probably going to be the independent Volvo shop from here on out.
We have an excellent indie shop for luxury cars in the area. Once the warranty is over, I think I trust them more than the original dealer.
We had new tires and an alignment done at the indie shop for Mrs. Ds 335. They did an excellent job and the price was a little better than the dealers, but, it was nice friendly service and no need for a shower.
Hey, supervisor came to the house about the plumbing issue. I think he was pretty sympathetic. He will go over it with the guy who did the work. Said something about it being a large company with big overhead so they have to charge more than the indie guy who works from his home. That should tell me something right off. He will go over it and get back to me tomorrow. I got a feeling I won't get what I want, but I am curious to know what they come up with. As I said, I won't settle for less than $300, I'd rather have the fun of contacting consumer shows and a bad review on the internet.
driver.....sorry I missed the Timex watch issue......I'll go dig up those posts to catch up. :shades:
The new Audi is fine. We've kind of done a little reversal. GF got used to driving my car, so I'm driving the Audi.
Differences between BMW and Audi? Probably not as many as you'd think. Granted, I'm comparing a 335i to an S4, but here's what I've noticed....
Things the S4 is better than over the 335i -the S4 is a bit faster -S-Tronic in the S4, when in sport mode, is better than the 6 speed auto in the 335i -A/C is better -seats are better (sport seats) -cornering is better (the S4 truly rotates around a corner when pushed with no under/oversteer) -speech recognition in the MMI is better -Nav has better graphics (NVIDIA + Google Earth) -makes better sounds under the hood -better back seat room (but, 335i is a coupe) -tires are better (non runflast)
Where the 335i is better than the S4 -transmission, when not in sport mode, is better -throttle tip in is better -Nav is faster to respond -ride is better (over "dynamic" mode in the S4 settings) -MPG is slightly better in the 335i
Maybe when winter sets in, there will be some other observations.
They both have a very high build quality. They both use premium materials (maybe give the nod to the S4 if you're being picky).
Glad we have the choice of either, because they both are sterling performance machines.
Maybe I should have watched, but I kind of expect workers to be adults and they should be able to complete a job without me watching them.
In an earlier post I said something like just because you are paying to have something done doesn’t necessarily mean the job is going to be done right. In your case it sounds like it was done right but it was pretty expensive. Just watching someone do the work doesn’t mean it’s being done right, you have to know how it should be done. This is another reason why I usually do things for myself. I can’t be taking off work to watch someone do something for me.
There are some things I don’t like to do and have it done for me. Landscaping is one that comes to mind and I have a lawn service throw down fertilizer about 6 times a year. I don’t think I’m getting my money’s worth with the lawn service and I’m about to start doing that myself too, although I’ve threatened myself about this a couple times before and all I do is get another lawn service. I think I’ve had almost all of them at one time or another but there is one more that I’ll probably go with because my brother seems to be satisfied with a local guy he found. I sure hope that guy is decent because I know it’s not hard to do, I just don’t like doing it.
Sounds like you could have done the job better than this guy, next time I'll just call you. You can have a nice trip up to Canada, see the Falls, go to a Blue Jays game, and I'll pay you $500 which will cover the cost of the trip.
I don’t know if I could have done it better but I probably could have done it. If you think your plumber charged you too much there ain’t no way I’m making a house call to Canada for a measly $500. You got a bargain believe me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
.... on a week's worth of posts. Have been on holiday, driving to CA and back to attend my 30th HS reunion.
Random trip notes: * 2300 miles / 30 MPG in my '06 Saturn ION * The most I spent for gas was $4.099; the least I spent was $3.239 * Spotted a couple of pre-production cars on I-70 in Colorado - one was the new Hyundai Santa Fe; the other was a pair of sedans that looked to be a new Lincoln. Had a very 6000 SUX look to them in the rear * Was the victim of some road debris in Nevada that took out my splitter (rubber piece inside my bumper) and part of the wheel liner on the front left. Neither affected the driving characteristics but may have affected my MPG * Lane discipline was generally very good - not a lot of left lane campers * 80 MPH speed limits in Utah were great! * Was able to play around with some in-car entertainment options. I used my iPod for a majority of the trip but loaded both Pandora and I Heart Radio apps onto my iPhone. I Heart Radio is for Clear Channel radio stations and allowed me to listen to a Denver news / sports station wherever I wanted. I was also able to listen to Jim Rome's sports show on a station in Miami
All in all, a good trip. 17 hours (give or take) each way.
As far as working a 40 hour week and taking a course that is 2 hours a week extra.....well, that's what lots of people do these days.
It didn’t originate today.
A while back I said I’d tell this tale when the situation came up:
I went to night school after working at least 8 hours a day and I spent a whole lot more than 2 hours a week in the classroom. I can tell you that.
I worked my way though night school but I didn’t have night school bills. Since I was in the Navy the government paid for my school then it was my former employer. I’m not complaining, I’m glad I didn’t have to pay for it but after working 8 hours it would have been nice if someone could have sat in on some of those classes for me too.
I drove for UPS after I got out of the Navy and the pay was pretty good. I just had a hard time getting to classes on time and as the courses got tougher, missing class or being late to class was a real problem. Because of this I didn’t deliver all of the packages I had for some of those night school days. I went to several customers and explained my predicament and I was told by them that unless there is a package that is marked “priority” they didn’t have to have their deliveries every day. That was pretty nice of them and I rotated missed delivery days between those customers. Sounds great, huh? Well, it was with these customers but UPS had a policy that all packages had to be delivered and only because of an emergency would you not be expected to have an empty truck when it was returned. Even this worked with the boss I had at first but a new boss came along. He called me into his office one morning before I started out because he saw that it was reported to him that my truck was not empty a few times. I told him what my arrangements were with my customers and with my old boss and it was working. Well, not any more. He said, “you know what the company policy is and that’s the way it’s going to be done from now on. Got that? I don’t give a sh** about your classes”. He opens a drawer and pulls out a stack of applications that had be at least an inch thick, plops them on his desk and said, “there, with the money we pay, I’ll bet these guys are willing to work a little extra and empty the truck. So, it won’t be hard for me to replace you”. :mad: :mad:
I got to thinking about what he said as I was making my deliveries that day and I had an important test that night that I wasn’t going to be late for or miss no matter what. I needed all of the class time for the test and I didn’t make all of my deliveries that day. When I got back, I showered, went to his office and told him to get out his stack of applications because I was quitting. The job I got after that was with my former employer and the pay was a little less but at least they were understanding that there were going to be times that I might have to leave a little early to get to class or get some research material at the library.
Ah, the good old days.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
* Lane discipline was generally very good - not a lot of left lane campers
That’s the way it usually is on the PA Pike for me at the normal drive time to work, just a little after 7 AM. Today I had a routine doctors appointment at 8:30 so by the time I was on the pike the regulars were gone. I could tell almost immediately because of the left-lane-dwellers. I’ll never understand these people. There are totally oblivious to everything going on around them, especially the train of cars behind them. Out in the left lane doing 5 to 10 MPH less than the limit and they are happy, happy. :sick:
* 80 MPH speed limits in Utah were great!
I’ve never seen an 80 MPH limit. That must be nice. There is talk about the PA Pike going to 70 from 65 for cars but the trucks will stay at 65. We'll see.
I have been to a few high school reunions they are nice. I’m sure you look the same today as 30 years ago. That’s what I was told at mine; must be because I still have all of my hair.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The Volvo dealer is frikkin expensive, probably 30-50% more for the same services compared to the one back in NC. And they always manage to "find" stuff that is "just maintenance" while I was still under my extended warranty. Now that's expired anyway, so it's probably going to be the independent Volvo shop from here on out.
I use the BMW dealer in the same dealer group(Swope); their prices are more than reasonable and they provide excellent service.
That said, a friend of mine got the runaround from the Cadillac dealer in the same group; they wanted a couple of hundred dollars to diagnose and repair a problem with a remote key fob on his wife's CTS- and he would have to leave the car there all day. He drove over to a Chevy dealer(where he knew the service manager) and in less than 45 minutes the problem was resolved- for less than $30.
The Caddy dealer lost more than a service job, as my friend's wife had traded her 5 Series in on the CTS; After that debacle she announced that she is returning to the BMW fold...
Don't take these stories as a dig on Cadillac, as I'm certain that in other cities the Cadillac dealer(s) provide much better service than their BMW counterparts. Rather, I just wanted to illustrate yet again how a dealer can enhance -or degrade- the ownership experience.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just be careful about exceeding them. I used to drive between Salt Lake City and St. George about once every two weeks, and noticed how heavily patrolled those 80 MPH sections were. A cop in an unmarked powder blue Mustang had someone pulled over just about very time I drove it. The tricky part was remembering to slow down to 75 MPH the few times the speed limit changes during that drive, which of course is where most of the speed traps were set.
I'm now in Colorado and the family is following shortly. The drivers are much more friendly to road cyclists out here than those in Utah. Drivers here actually treat bikers as equals, unlike in Utah where bikers are viewed as targets.
Huh. I usually did 2-4 MPH over the posted limit most of the time, even in the 80 MPH stretches in Utah. Not one problem. Though, now that you mention it, there was a higher than average amount of UHP cars on that stretch. Hardly any on I-70 by comparison.
jmonroe - here out west, most of the interstates are marked at 70 or 75 MPH, except for certain stretches:
* I-70 in CO through Glenwood Canyon is marked at 50. * I-70 in CO through some of the mountain stretches are marked at 60-65 - especially the long uphill and downhill grades around the tunnels at the Continental Divide. * I-15 in Nevada is particularly interesting ... east of Las Vegas, it's marked at 75 MPH. West of Las Vegas (heading towards CA), it's marked at 70 MPH so that it matches the 70 MPH speed limit in CA * The Baker grade is marked at 60 MPH
There was a fair amount of construction - lots of one lane closed. In extreme western CO, the whole westbound side of the road was closed and WB traffic was diverted onto the EB lanes, so only one lane in each direction.
When I got back, I showered, went to his office and told him to get out his stack of applications because I was quitting.
hmmm, may have been a good opportunity for you to tell your boss to, "take this job and shove, I ain't working here no more." Sounds like a real jerk. :sick:
Hey everybody, I'm gettting another car! I'm thinking of trading in my 2007 Kia Optima at Hyundai's new "Conquest Program". I get 100% reimbursement of the factory full base model MSRP ,when my Kia was new! Which means Hyundai will give me around $20,000... and I only paid $6,250 last week! :P
All I have to do is trade in my Kia for an already low priced Hyundai!
Great. Now, before I get in my car to trade in... let me read this small print. "The only deductions will be made for mileage (10 cents - 55 cents depending on model and reconditioning)
Which means they could pay me half of what I just paid. :sick:
Glad we have the choice of either, because they both are sterling performance machines. When is yours due?
Great rundown on the differences you noticed in the 2 cars. I can't think of anything yet that is an advantage in the 2013 328 compared to the Audi A4 Premium Plus Package. The 335 BMW will probably be faster.
I would say, and this is only from test drives, the Audi has these advantages; Regular tires (not run-flats) Seat adjustment and driving position Vision front, sides and rear, Lane warning and blindspot warning Nav and rear camera are standard, not a $4500 option Almost everyone will choose the Sport option exterior and interior package on the BMW and that will cost $1500. Clutch and transmission operated better in the Audi...manuals Nav unit/camera were built into the dash on the Audi...not stand up screen Personal preference, but I like the interior better on the Audi
I think the harsher ride in the Audi is because (according to our salesman) Audi sells most of their cars in Europe, so have kept the European handling characteristics, while BMW sells more cars in the U.S. and has soften the ride for that market.
The earliest our car will arrive is late in August, and it could take until mid September.
I think what driver100 is referring to is a joist, not a beam. Still not good to cut a lot of it away without reinforcement but not as bad as cutting a support beam.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In your case it sounds like it was done right but it was pretty expensive.
Exactly. I guess part of the thing about not watching is I figure if i treat them like an adult, they won't rip me off and they will want to do repeat business.
I hate anything having to do with lawns. But, it is hard to find good lawn people, almost as hard as a good plumber, or good garage mechanic. That's another reason I like new cars, I don't have to hand my life over to an unscrupulous mechanic.
I understand not wanting to make the trip up hear to fix our drain pipes, but if you change your mind the offer is there. I don't know if the supervisor is going to give me a rebate, but I really think he understood my point that $500 an hour was a bit much for the work that was done.
I just have to laugh to myself picturing all the people who will go in expecting to get credit for MSRP when new against the value of a new replacement KIA.
I'll bet the salemen have great laughs behind their backs, or even out in the open, at the gullible customers.
All I have to do is trade in my Kia for an already low priced Hyundai!
Since you got a good deal buying your Kia from a private party you owe it to yourself to be ripped off by a Hyundai dealer. I was, it only hurts when I think about it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Where have you been? You have missed some good stories. We have Mike but real car guys are always welcome around here. How's the little guy, he must be a few years old now? Are you doing internet sales?
you owe it to yourself to be ripped off by a Hyundai dealer. I was, it only hurts when I think about it.
Aw come on, you have gotten great mileage out of that Hyundai. You're in 2nd place behind GG and the Audi exchange deal for the best story of the year award. I nominate myself as #3 for a dealer losing a sure thing sale over $1500, when they could have given me book value, up to $4000 more on my trade in.
It gives you a great story to tell your friends and neighbors, that alone is easily worth 3000 bucks!
* I-15 in Nevada is particularly interesting ... east of Las Vegas, it's marked at 75 MPH. West of Las Vegas (heading towards CA), it's marked at 70 MPH so that it matches the 70 MPH speed limit in CA
Didn't know that. But lets be honest, do you really think the real reason for the low speed limit is to match CA? No, I don't think so. The real reason for the extra low speed limit is that there is much higher traffic between CA and Vegas than there is east of Vegas. More traffic means more revenue generation opportunity; especially when speed limits are set arbitrarily extra low.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I think Audi was within their rights to do what they did, since they did send you the letter on time. You could have told your mechanic Audi was going to fix the car and you just received the letter. It would have been extraordinarily nice of them if they paid for your repair, but they didn't have to.
btw, how much was the repair?
That's the thing, they didn't send the letter in time (the letter extends the warranty on the intake control module/motor to 10 years 120K miles) They sent it out because is a known defective problematic failure-prone part. I've happened to have two check engine lights activated at differnt times from this part prior to receiving the letter.
Just because my mechanic wasn't physically toiling in his garage under my car's hood doesn't mean the repair wasn't already underway once I received the letter. As soon as he used a code reader to diagnose the issue, and order the part, the repair is underway and in progress by any reasonable interpretation.
I therefore (per the letter, which states if you already had repairs completed, to submit a reimbursement request) asked for reimbursement on both repairs and provided a letter explaining the situation and attached the work order receipts. In my letter I stated I got the letter before the 2nd repairs were completed, and they were trying to use that honesty against me, and only pay the first repair.
The 2nd repair is approx. $200 for the part and 3 hours labor (about $500 total including tax).
Like I said, if Audi hadn't ever sent the letter, I'd be less upset about all this. ONce they sent the letter, I felt entitled to reimbursement as they claimed they were standing behind the defective part. Delaying the scheduled repair and returning a shipped part is unreasonable to expect of a customer.
The one and only thing they have on their side is that the letter indicated if repairs were already completed for this part the individual would be reimbursed.
They WERE saying the repairs were not completed and therefore I should have gone to an Audi dealer upon receiving the letter.
On my side I have my half dozen points I make in my post above, plus the fact that I could argue the repairs were "underway" upon my receipt of the letter. The part was ordered, the repair scheduled, and the problem already diagnosed and coded. A little leeway is appropriate here.
It is absurd that they would reimburse me for shipping and restocking fees for cancelling the work with the independent and sending the ordered part back to the dealer to have it installed at a later date.
They called me Yesterday. The same person said upon speaking to a supervisor the decision has remained the same, they will pay me for the first repair, and deny the 2nd due to my having admitted I received the letter before repairs were completed.
This doesn't sit well with me, and I have to rely on her word over the phone she spoke with a manager or supervisor????? I never spoke with anyone else! Perhaps she gets a bonus for denying claims? I think a letter is in order to Audi of America's management regarding this case before I give up on them.
UPDATE: Yesterday before closing time I phoned them again and spoke with a different representative and said I wanted to appeal to the supervisor that my previous representative said they spoke with, or to the person one level above them, or write a letter to someone.
They said they'd re-appeal it to that supervisor or another one, and get back to me right away. They called today, they are covering both repairs. Congratulations to Audi for doing the right thing. I did point out I was a good Audi customer, enthusiast, Audi Club member, and that this absurd denial of claim was a ridiculous reason for Audi to potentially lose a customer. THAT got their attention. Perhaps it was a mistake, but perhaps they were just saving face when they said they apologized for the problems I was having, but that they had misunderstood and been miscommunicated with in how to handle these reimbursement claims regarding my issue (the repairs being completed after the letter was sent out but started before received issue I suppose and assume).
However, they did mention on this latest call that they have a formula for paying for "independent" reimbursements at a rate less than 100% of the costs, and that they'd be making those calculations and I'd be notified shortly. I hope it's not anything ridiculous, because my mechanic's labor rate was already much lower than the dealership's would have been. The letter stated nothing of reimbursements being "shortchanged."
At this point I'll be happy with .75 cents on the dollar they've put up such a fight! But I'm glad to see that manager's still have some common sense and decency at good companies. I was sure that going up the ladder would eventually result in the right and honest decision at Audi.
Kudos to Audi.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
If I called a guy on Wednesday and he couldn't come until Thursday, I would've moved onto the next guy.
I know the feeling. Years ago the blower on my furnace died in the middle of one the coldest snaps on record. Lows of -15F and highs in the single digits. I needed a repair and FAST. The one guy who could actually come charged me $700 to replace a motor that I discovered later cost about $75. He was there an hour.
In both cases, buyer beware is the key phrase.
I knew you were playing devil's advocate, you would have to be insane to think that what the plumber charged was fair....ha ha...I am playing devil's advocate now.
The thing was, they had it all planned so that they keep you hooked until the last possible moment, so that you have no choice.
I have talked to a lot of people about my experience and they all have sad tales of being taken advantage of by plumbers or furnace people. One guy said they have a name for what these companies do...panic syndrome....the customer is in a panic and just wants the thing fixed, and that is when they have you, just like in your situation.
That's why, it is best to have a list of names to call before you are in a panic situation.
Also, I don't mind paying a bit extra for a good reliable job, but $300 an hour is more than a surgeon probably makes!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
as a hurricane is approaching? There are laws against that. Gouging?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
If you tell him that, he will say, "Yes, I know. I used to be a surgeon until all that free health care came along".
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I’m sure people here laugh at me when I talk about doing car and house maintenance myself; especially the time I showed Son #2 how to install a water heater. I learned long ago that the job won’t necessarily be done right just because you hire someone to do it. That’s why I learned to do things myself. I wasn’t going to be held hostage for something I could probably screw up better myself than paying someone to screw up for me then paying again to have it done right. I know that DIY stuff isn’t for everyone and if you haven’t learned to do it by the time you’re 40 no sense in learning at that point.
Also, I don't mind paying a bit extra for a good reliable job, but $300 an hour is more than a surgeon probably makes!
I’m surprised that you think the plumbing place should reduce your bill after the job is done and you have had time to think about how much more it costs than what you think it should have cost. That’s the same as buying a car, taking it home, telling people what you paid and finding out you overpaid. I know you wouldn’t think you could get away with that so why do you think the plumber owes you a refund of a couple hundred bucks?
As for having a blower go out on the coldest night of the year, that’s why I have a spare blower. When I replaced my home HVAC system in August 2008 I had a spare blower for my old furnace that I got from a neighbor who replaced his very same furnace about 5 years before I replaced mine.
When the new HVAC was installed I had the following conversation with the installers:
Me: I’m pulling that blower out of there so don’t take it.
They questioned why I wanted it because it wouldn’t fit the new furnace.
Me: Someone around here will need it.
Installer: These are hard to come by today. I’ll give you 50 bucks for this one and 50 for the spare you have.
Me: How about this? I’ll give you both of them and you give me a spare for this new furnace.
Installer: These old blowers are valuable so that I can repair a customer’s old furnace so they don’t have to replace the whole furnace just because it needs a blower. That way the customer can see that I’m not trying to gouge him by forcing a new furnace on them. I get their trust so that in a couple of years when I get a call from them and their heat exchanger is shot and I tell them their furnace now needs replaced, they know I’m telling them the truth. However, I can’t do that even swap with you because the blower in your new furnace costs me more than $100, my price.
Me: OK, never mind.
Installer: How about you give me both of your blowers and $75 bucks and I’ll give you a new blower for your furnace. I don’t have it on the truck now but I can send Joey to the warehouse to get it, OK?
Me: Deal.
Could I have negotiated for only $50 difference? Yeah, probably, but I didn’t. Will I really need this spare? I hope not but I’m more than willing to throw away $75 for the peace of mind it gives me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
At $300 an hour for a 30 hour week, the plumber would make $468,000!
He may as well skipped the 10 years it takes to become a doctor and go straight to plumbers school.
Many doctors have to work weekends and nights and have a lot of responsibility....like having lives in their hands, and could get sued etc.
Plumbers....ah, not so much. :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
By the time they gave me an estimate it is about 2 p.m. on Thursday. Now, I only have one day to find a new plumber and hope he isn't a bigger thief than the first guy. Also, he indicated that this was going to be a massive job, so I thought he would be there until 8 pm doing it and I was glad he came at all.
Then when I see him drive away and check the time it is 3:30! They play on your situation, and in fact I have been told that is exactly what they do, that's why they come late. By then you are desparate and panicking, and just want it fixed.
I have talked to a lot of DIYers since then and they say the work is worth something over and above because of dealing with ABS pipes etc and some welding, and cutting through a beam are worth something. I think $200 an hour or $600 would have been generous for less than 3 hours work.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm still wondering about this. Cutting through a beam is not a good thing. Now if he put a round hole through the center of the beam and left at least 75% of it intact, then fine.
That part looks like you were not told the whole truth but I still don’t think you’re going to get a refund.
I have talked to a lot of DIYers since then and they say the work is worth something over and above because of dealing with ABS pipes etc and some welding, and cutting through a beam are worth something.
Working with ABS pipe is not hard work at all. You use a solvent that melts the plastic. You hold the joint together for not even a minute and the job is done. The joint is essentially welded. Soldering copper tubing/pipe together is more involved and takes much more skill. But its not rocket surgery.
The part that should concern you is how large of a hole was cut in a steel beam of what size. The rule is you don’t do it but there are times when it can’t be avoided. When a hole is cut through a steel support beam the area surrounding the hole has to be reinforced with steel plates on both sides of the beam. Maybe this is the “welding” you are referring to. If not how did your plumber do the job? Because to weld once the ABS plastic pipe is in place, the heat from the welding process would melt the pipe. When holes are cut, copper tubing at a minimum is needed so that the pipe doesn’t melt unless the support plates are welded in place first and then a hole is torched through all three pieces of steel. Take your pick but it has to be supported.
If you want to get on the plumbing outfit, ask them why they cut a hole in a steel support beam and didn’t reinforce it. Let me tell you the answer you’ll probably get, “it’s a small hole relative to the size of the beam (in a house this is extremely unlikely with a drain line) and the hole is close to the end of the beam where it is supported by a wall or a vertical support. You ain’t got nothing to worry about. Your house is not going to cave in”. More than likely it won’t but when you sell the house and a home inspection reveals a hole cut through a support beam, without proper support plates being installed, the seller must make the fix because it’s a safety issue not merely a cosmetic issue that can be negotiated by the seller and buyer. At least that’s the way its done where I live.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Here in MA, a master plumber is required to take 550 hours of class work over 5 years and work as an apprentice/journeyman for 4 years before getting his license.
Plumbers have lots of responsibility as well - not as much a doctor. Here in MA, only plumbers are legally allowed to work on plumbing - it's a matter of protecting the water distribution system.
Nevermind that my mechanic had already done a code reading and diagnosis of the problem free of charge, and ordered the part from the local audi dealer. They say I should have cancelled my appointment with him and gone to Audi since I had received the letter already in the interim (nevermind a potential restocking fee issue for the already ordered part, and nevermind delaying a repair while using the car as a daily driver by rescheduling a repair with the Audi dealer).
I think Audi's argument and excuses to weasel out of paying for the warranty extension reimbursement are WEAK SAUCE! It reeks of GM and Chrysleresque customer service horribleness. These points greatly outweigh any point they might have:
1) the problem to the part and car occurred prior to receiving the letter.
2) the problem was diagnosed prior to receiving their letter.
3) the part was already ordered prior to receiving their letter.
4) the repair date was already scheduled prior to receiving the letter.
5) the repair was done within a week of getting the letter
6) Audi has taken over 7 months to inform me of the negative decision and denial to my reimbursement request originally sent to them in December 2011 (supposedly a letter I never got was sent out in May 2012 advising me of the adverse decision (or request for more information).
The fact they are trying to weasel out of paying for defective parts with lame excuses is deplorable and lamentable. The key thing to remember here is that the part is obviously defective, I've had to get it fixed twice already, and they stepped up to cover it for 10 years or 120K miles, whichever comes first. For them to try and create excuses and technicalities to not cover repairs on a known "defective" part is just plain dishonest and bad faith.
Now this story is on hold because I told the customer relations rep (female) that I wanted to appeal her decision to a manager or supervisor, and she said she'd get back to me in 2 business days. Hopefully, they get their act together and come to the RIGHT and HONEST decision and simply reimburse me for the money I've already spent. I'm not asking for a dollar more than this defective part has cost me already.
I am DIY challenged....I did mean he made the hole larger, he didn't weaken the beam.
Incidentally, the house is 6 years old, the basement is like new, totally clean, and 9 foot ceilings. He was pleasantly surprised he wouldn't have to crawl under the house...if he did that or worked in an old spider filled, dirty basement I think he may have deserved at least $800.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The beam he cut through was a wooden beam if I remember correctly. I'll check it when the supervisor comes tomorrow. There are lots of beams and there are cross hatches to make the beams even stronger....I don't think making the hole larger would have much affect on the strength.
I don't like to watch workman doing their job. I had other work to do anyway.
I have a friend who fixes furnaces and air conditioners and he hates it when customers watch him work, and tell him what to do...or just stand there making sure they are getting their moneys worth.
I didn't see him weld, but I could smell what smelled like he did welding. I believe he had to attach the ABS pipe to the main pipe which is metal.
Supy is coming between 8 and 11 tomorrow. I don't expect a refund either. At most a token $100. I won't take it, only a minimum of $300 ot I will write to all the newspapers, radio, TV stations, websites, and print a flyer that I will circulate, and I will have business cards made up and give them to every one I meet. I won't be bought off for $100....I can be bought off for $300.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's only 2 hours a week....big deal. A doctor takes about 10 years and some of that is working about 24 hours a day!
Here in MA, only plumbers are legally allowed to work on plumbing - it's a matter of protecting the water distribution system
It is also a way to limit the number of plumbers entering the field so they can keep their prices higher. There may be times when plumbing is a matter of life or death, but not to the same degree as a doctor. There's no comparison between the training and responsibility a doctor has compared to a plumber.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have talked to a lot of DIYers since then and they say the work is worth something over and above because of dealing with ABS pipes etc and some welding, and cutting through a beam are worth something.
Because you mentioned "welding" I assumed you were talking about a steel beam that had a hole put through it for the drain line.
The beam he cut through was a wooden beam if I remember correctly. I'll check it when the supervisor comes tomorrow. There are lots of beams and there are cross hatches to make the beams even stronger....I don't think making the hole larger would have much affect on the strength.
I don’t know what “cross hatches” are but I think you might mean the X-bracing put between wooded floor joists that keep them from twisting. If a sizeable hole is put in a wooded beam it still has to be reinforced. Anytime a hole large enough for a drain line is drilled/cut into a supporting wood structure it is weakened. The good news is that it is a lot easier to reinforce a wooden support than a steel one.
I didn't see him weld, but I could smell what smelled like he did welding. I believe he had to attach the ABS pipe to the main pipe which is metal.
He didn’t weld the ABS to the main pipe for obvious reasons. He might have welded a transition piece on the main steel pipe (if steel was the original pipe) to accept the ABS pipe but this is usually done by a rubber collar with a stainless steel band over it that is held in place by large hose clamps. So if this was done I don’t know what you smelled but it could have been the odor from the saw cutting though the existing plastic pipe (if plastic is what you had) where it was prepped before it was connected to the new drain line.
I won't be bought off for $100....I can be bought off for $300.
We all have our price now we know what yours is. Even though you probably won’t get it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You are exactly right, the beams have X-bracing, that would be the correct term. I think the other things you said do make sense too. Maybe I should have watched, but I kind of expect workers to be adults and they should be able to complete a job without me watching them.
Sounds like you could have done the job better than this guy, next time I'll just call you. You can have a nice trip up to Canada, see the Falls, go to a Blue Jays game, and I'll pay you $500 which will cover the cost of the trip. :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know we aren't supposed to reply to you, but you can be amusing. First, you come in talking about something like as if we know what is going on....I think you got on the wrong topic possible, maybe you want the Audi section?
To be brief, I think Audi was within their rights to do what they did, since they did send you the letter on time. You could have told your mechanic Audi was going to fix the car and you just received the letter. It would have been extraordinarily nice of them if they paid for your repair, but they didn't have to.
btw, how much was the repair?
Did you ever get the Timex watch issue resolved? Have you bought a new one since then? Have you or a relative been to a Rite Aid store lately?
There are 1000s waiting to know.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm just pointing out that it's not like anyone can go out and call themselves a plumber. Those two hours a week are on top of having to work in the trade 2000 hours a year.
Yes a doctor has to go through more training than a plumber and well she should. As for the 24 hour a day bit - that's no more. Hospitals realized they were putting patients in danger by having residents work too much.
I deal with plumbers all the time in my job and trust me there are plenty of bad ones. The vast majority are decent, hard working individuals that take their job seriously.
I am not putting down plumbers or any tradesman, if I have a good one I will be glad to pay him, and I am a very loyal customer if i am treated fairly. Since I am DIY challenged I admire and respect a true professional tradesperson. I have said, the plumber who came to the house was a professional, he diagnosed the problem and found the way to solve the problem immediately. He did nice neat work.
As far as working a 40 hour week and taking a course that is 2 hours a week extra.....well, that's what lots of people do these days. Doctors also take courses and read up to keep up on the latest techniques and information. When I was teaching I marked papers or wrote out report cards for an hour or two in the evenings. With my own business I often work weekends and evenings - that's just part of life.
I don't feel sorry for somebody putting in 42 hours a week to make what is now $500 an hour!
Interesting, my wife just commented he really worked for 2 hours for $1000.
He spent one hour driving back to the plumbing place they have to buy supplies from, when he could have gone to a plumbing store 10 minutes away.
Devil's advocate :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
But, just having dealt with Audi, I think what they're saying to you is they can't warrant work that isn't done by one of their franchisees (i.e. and Audi dealership).
There's some sort of extended service contract that Audi issued you? Why? What is the repair in question? What is the part in question? Why was an extended warranty issued by Audi? Doesn't it stipulate that you have to have the warranty work done by one of their authorized dealers? This makes sense as that's the only way they can insure any warranty repair is done correctly, regardless of where you got the part(s).
Hope that helps you at least understand their thinking. Audi can't oversee the correct procedures and the labor quality of an independent mechanic.
driver....I must have missed something with the references to watches?
GG, you may have missed andres posts over a year ago when he was complaining Rite Aid wouldn't take back a $7 watch because he didn't have a receipt. He wanted them to dig through old surveilance tapes to see if they could find him buying the watch in question.
Andre was very upset and made sure all his relatives would never shop at Rite Aid again!!!
Hey GG, how is the 2nd Audi performing.
I was thinking about the Audi we are getting, and I think what I like about it, compared to a BMW, is that it isn't quite as slick. It reminds me of what a BMW probably was like about 10 years ago. It's got the characteristics of a European car, which hasn't been compromised by trying to make it more like an American car. I love my 535, but I am anxious to get my hands on our new Audi...be about another month.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Louisville dealers I have visited in my short time here have left me with that sleazy feeling. The Hyundai dealer was just a pain when we had to take my wife's Elantra in with a slipping serp belt, which had been put on 2 months earlier at a Hyundai dealer back in NC. Slow and poor communication about what they could and couldn't do for us.
The Volvo dealer is frikkin expensive, probably 30-50% more for the same services compared to the one back in NC. And they always manage to "find" stuff that is "just maintenance" while I was still under my extended warranty. Now that's expired anyway, so it's probably going to be the independent Volvo shop from here on out.
In that way, I'm only slightly looking forward to shopping for the replacement for the wife's Elantra next year. Might need a shower after each test drive.
We have an excellent indie shop for luxury cars in the area. Once the warranty is over, I think I trust them more than the original dealer.
We had new tires and an alignment done at the indie shop for Mrs. Ds 335.
They did an excellent job and the price was a little better than the dealers, but, it was nice friendly service and no need for a shower.
Hey, supervisor came to the house about the plumbing issue. I think he was pretty sympathetic. He will go over it with the guy who did the work. Said something about it being a large company with big overhead so they have to charge more than the indie guy who works from his home. That should tell me something right off.
He will go over it and get back to me tomorrow. I got a feeling I won't get what I want, but I am curious to know what they come up with. As I said, I won't settle for less than $300, I'd rather have the fun of contacting consumer shows and a bad review on the internet.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The new Audi is fine. We've kind of done a little reversal. GF got used to driving my car, so I'm driving the Audi.
Differences between BMW and Audi? Probably not as many as you'd think. Granted, I'm comparing a 335i to an S4, but here's what I've noticed....
Things the S4 is better than over the 335i
-the S4 is a bit faster
-S-Tronic in the S4, when in sport mode, is better than the 6 speed auto in the 335i
-A/C is better
-seats are better (sport seats)
-cornering is better (the S4 truly rotates around a corner when pushed with no under/oversteer)
-speech recognition in the MMI is better
-Nav has better graphics (NVIDIA + Google Earth)
-makes better sounds under the hood
-better back seat room (but, 335i is a coupe)
-tires are better (non runflast)
Where the 335i is better than the S4
-transmission, when not in sport mode, is better
-throttle tip in is better
-Nav is faster to respond
-ride is better (over "dynamic" mode in the S4 settings)
-MPG is slightly better in the 335i
Maybe when winter sets in, there will be some other observations.
They both have a very high build quality. They both use premium materials (maybe give the nod to the S4 if you're being picky).
Glad we have the choice of either, because they both are sterling performance machines.
When is yours due?
In an earlier post I said something like just because you are paying to have something done doesn’t necessarily mean the job is going to be done right. In your case it sounds like it was done right but it was pretty expensive. Just watching someone do the work doesn’t mean it’s being done right, you have to know how it should be done. This is another reason why I usually do things for myself. I can’t be taking off work to watch someone do something for me.
There are some things I don’t like to do and have it done for me. Landscaping is one that comes to mind and I have a lawn service throw down fertilizer about 6 times a year. I don’t think I’m getting my money’s worth with the lawn service and I’m about to start doing that myself too, although I’ve threatened myself about this a couple times before and all I do is get another lawn service. I think I’ve had almost all of them at one time or another but there is one more that I’ll probably go with because my brother seems to be satisfied with a local guy he found. I sure hope that guy is decent because I know it’s not hard to do, I just don’t like doing it.
Sounds like you could have done the job better than this guy, next time I'll just call you. You can have a nice trip up to Canada, see the Falls, go to a Blue Jays game, and I'll pay you $500 which will cover the cost of the trip.
I don’t know if I could have done it better but I probably could have done it. If you think your plumber charged you too much there ain’t no way I’m making a house call to Canada for a measly $500. You got a bargain believe me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Random trip notes:
* 2300 miles / 30 MPG in my '06 Saturn ION
* The most I spent for gas was $4.099; the least I spent was $3.239
* Spotted a couple of pre-production cars on I-70 in Colorado - one was the new Hyundai Santa Fe; the other was a pair of sedans that looked to be a new Lincoln. Had a very 6000 SUX look to them in the rear
* Was the victim of some road debris in Nevada that took out my splitter (rubber piece inside my bumper) and part of the wheel liner on the front left. Neither affected the driving characteristics but may have affected my MPG
* Lane discipline was generally very good - not a lot of left lane campers
* 80 MPH speed limits in Utah were great!
* Was able to play around with some in-car entertainment options. I used my iPod for a majority of the trip but loaded both Pandora and I Heart Radio apps onto my iPhone. I Heart Radio is for Clear Channel radio stations and allowed me to listen to a Denver news / sports station wherever I wanted. I was also able to listen to Jim Rome's sports show on a station in Miami
All in all, a good trip. 17 hours (give or take) each way.
It didn’t originate today.
A while back I said I’d tell this tale when the situation came up:
I went to night school after working at least 8 hours a day and I spent a whole lot more than 2 hours a week in the classroom. I can tell you that.
I worked my way though night school but I didn’t have night school bills. Since I was in the Navy the government paid for my school then it was my former employer. I’m not complaining, I’m glad I didn’t have to pay for it but after working 8 hours it would have been nice if someone could have sat in on some of those classes for me too.
I drove for UPS after I got out of the Navy and the pay was pretty good. I just had a hard time getting to classes on time and as the courses got tougher, missing class or being late to class was a real problem. Because of this I didn’t deliver all of the packages I had for some of those night school days. I went to several customers and explained my predicament and I was told by them that unless there is a package that is marked “priority” they didn’t have to have their deliveries every day. That was pretty nice of them and I rotated missed delivery days between those customers. Sounds great, huh? Well, it was with these customers but UPS had a policy that all packages had to be delivered and only because of an emergency would you not be expected to have an empty truck when it was returned. Even this worked with the boss I had at first but a new boss came along. He called me into his office one morning before I started out because he saw that it was reported to him that my truck was not empty a few times. I told him what my arrangements were with my customers and with my old boss and it was working. Well, not any more. He said, “you know what the company policy is and that’s the way it’s going to be done from now on. Got that? I don’t give a sh** about your classes”. He opens a drawer and pulls out a stack of applications that had be at least an inch thick, plops them on his desk and said, “there, with the money we pay, I’ll bet these guys are willing to work a little extra and empty the truck. So, it won’t be hard for me to replace you”. :mad: :mad:
I got to thinking about what he said as I was making my deliveries that day and I had an important test that night that I wasn’t going to be late for or miss no matter what. I needed all of the class time for the test and I didn’t make all of my deliveries that day. When I got back, I showered, went to his office and told him to get out his stack of applications because I was quitting. The job I got after that was with my former employer and the pay was a little less but at least they were understanding that there were going to be times that I might have to leave a little early to get to class or get some research material at the library.
Ah, the good old days.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That’s the way it usually is on the PA Pike for me at the normal drive time to work, just a little after 7 AM. Today I had a routine doctors appointment at 8:30 so by the time I was on the pike the regulars were gone. I could tell almost immediately because of the left-lane-dwellers. I’ll never understand these people. There are totally oblivious to everything going on around them, especially the train of cars behind them. Out in the left lane doing 5 to 10 MPH less than the limit and they are happy, happy. :sick:
* 80 MPH speed limits in Utah were great!
I’ve never seen an 80 MPH limit. That must be nice. There is talk about the PA Pike going to 70 from 65 for cars but the trucks will stay at 65. We'll see.
I have been to a few high school reunions they are nice. I’m sure you look the same today as 30 years ago. That’s what I was told at mine; must be because I still have all of my hair.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I use the BMW dealer in the same dealer group(Swope); their prices are more than reasonable and they provide excellent service.
That said, a friend of mine got the runaround from the Cadillac dealer in the same group; they wanted a couple of hundred dollars to diagnose and repair a problem with a remote key fob on his wife's CTS- and he would have to leave the car there all day. He drove over to a Chevy dealer(where he knew the service manager) and in less than 45 minutes the problem was resolved- for less than $30.
The Caddy dealer lost more than a service job, as my friend's wife had traded her 5 Series in on the CTS; After that debacle she announced that she is returning to the BMW fold...
Don't take these stories as a dig on Cadillac, as I'm certain that in other cities the Cadillac dealer(s) provide much better service than their BMW counterparts. Rather, I just wanted to illustrate yet again how a dealer can enhance -or degrade- the ownership experience.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just be careful about exceeding them. I used to drive between Salt Lake City and St. George about once every two weeks, and noticed how heavily patrolled those 80 MPH sections were. A cop in an unmarked powder blue Mustang had someone pulled over just about very time I drove it. The tricky part was remembering to slow down to 75 MPH the few times the speed limit changes during that drive, which of course is where most of the speed traps were set.
I'm now in Colorado and the family is following shortly. The drivers are much more friendly to road cyclists out here than those in Utah. Drivers here actually treat bikers as equals, unlike in Utah where bikers are viewed as targets.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Huh. I usually did 2-4 MPH over the posted limit most of the time, even in the 80 MPH stretches in Utah. Not one problem. Though, now that you mention it, there was a higher than average amount of UHP cars on that stretch. Hardly any on I-70 by comparison.
jmonroe - here out west, most of the interstates are marked at 70 or 75 MPH, except for certain stretches:
* I-70 in CO through Glenwood Canyon is marked at 50.
* I-70 in CO through some of the mountain stretches are marked at 60-65 - especially the long uphill and downhill grades around the tunnels at the Continental Divide.
* I-15 in Nevada is particularly interesting ... east of Las Vegas, it's marked at 75 MPH. West of Las Vegas (heading towards CA), it's marked at 70 MPH so that it matches the 70 MPH speed limit in CA
* The Baker grade is marked at 60 MPH
There was a fair amount of construction - lots of one lane closed. In extreme western CO, the whole westbound side of the road was closed and WB traffic was diverted onto the EB lanes, so only one lane in each direction.
hmmm, may have been a good opportunity for you to tell your boss to, "take this job and shove, I ain't working here no more." Sounds like a real jerk. :sick:
All I have to do is trade in my Kia for an already low priced Hyundai!
Great. Now, before I get in my car to trade in... let me read this small print. "The only deductions will be made for mileage (10 cents - 55 cents depending on model and reconditioning)
Which means they could pay me half of what I just paid. :sick:
When is yours due?
Great rundown on the differences you noticed in the 2 cars. I can't think of anything yet that is an advantage in the 2013 328 compared to the Audi A4 Premium Plus Package. The 335 BMW will probably be faster.
I would say, and this is only from test drives, the Audi has these advantages;
Regular tires (not run-flats)
Seat adjustment and driving position
Vision front, sides and rear,
Lane warning and blindspot warning
Nav and rear camera are standard, not a $4500 option
Almost everyone will choose the Sport option exterior and interior package on the BMW and that will cost $1500.
Clutch and transmission operated better in the Audi...manuals
Nav unit/camera were built into the dash on the Audi...not stand up screen
Personal preference, but I like the interior better on the Audi
I think the harsher ride in the Audi is because (according to our salesman) Audi sells most of their cars in Europe, so have kept the European handling characteristics, while BMW sells more cars in the U.S. and has soften the ride for that market.
The earliest our car will arrive is late in August, and it could take until mid September.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think what driver100 is referring to is a joist, not a beam. Still not good to cut a lot of it away without reinforcement but not as bad as cutting a support beam.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Exactly. I guess part of the thing about not watching is I figure if i treat them like an adult, they won't rip me off and they will want to do repeat business.
I hate anything having to do with lawns. But, it is hard to find good lawn people, almost as hard as a good plumber, or good garage mechanic. That's another reason I like new cars, I don't have to hand my life over to an unscrupulous mechanic.
I understand not wanting to make the trip up hear to fix our drain pipes, but if you change your mind the offer is there.
I don't know if the supervisor is going to give me a rebate, but I really think he understood my point that $500 an hour was a bit much for the work that was done.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I was wondering what the catch was going to be. They are getting really creative coming up with ways to get your attention reading the ads.
50 cents a mile and 80000 miles, isn't that like $40000 off the price of the Kia when new....I think you will owe them money on your trade in.
And, I am sure you will be charged at 55 cents, not 10 cents.
Some very creative person wrote that ad.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I just have to laugh to myself picturing all the people who will go in expecting to get credit for MSRP when new against the value of a new replacement KIA.
I'll bet the salemen have great laughs behind their backs, or even out in the open, at the gullible customers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Thanks. I tried to edit that "new math" post of mine, but was too late. :sick:
Since you got a good deal buying your Kia from a private party you owe it to yourself to be ripped off by a Hyundai dealer. I was, it only hurts when I think about it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
OK 'boom' but I think you said that once before so what is different this time? :confuse:
Welcome back.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Where have you been? You have missed some good stories. We have Mike but real car guys are always welcome around here. How's the little guy, he must be a few years old now? Are you doing internet sales?
Nice to hear from you...........
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Aw come on, you have gotten great mileage out of that Hyundai. You're in 2nd place behind GG and the Audi exchange deal for the best story of the year award. I nominate myself as #3 for a dealer losing a sure thing sale over $1500, when they could have given me book value, up to $4000 more on my trade in.
It gives you a great story to tell your friends and neighbors, that alone is easily worth 3000 bucks!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Didn't know that. But lets be honest, do you really think the real reason for the low speed limit is to match CA? No, I don't think so. The real reason for the extra low speed limit is that there is much higher traffic between CA and Vegas than there is east of Vegas. More traffic means more revenue generation opportunity; especially when speed limits are set arbitrarily extra low.
Good to see you again, Boom.
btw, how much was the repair?
That's the thing, they didn't send the letter in time (the letter extends the warranty on the intake control module/motor to 10 years 120K miles) They sent it out because is a known defective problematic failure-prone part. I've happened to have two check engine lights activated at differnt times from this part prior to receiving the letter.
Just because my mechanic wasn't physically toiling in his garage under my car's hood doesn't mean the repair wasn't already underway once I received the letter. As soon as he used a code reader to diagnose the issue, and order the part, the repair is underway and in progress by any reasonable interpretation.
I therefore (per the letter, which states if you already had repairs completed, to submit a reimbursement request) asked for reimbursement on both repairs and provided a letter explaining the situation and attached the work order receipts. In my letter I stated I got the letter before the 2nd repairs were completed, and they were trying to use that honesty against me, and only pay the first repair.
The 2nd repair is approx. $200 for the part and 3 hours labor (about $500 total including tax).
Like I said, if Audi hadn't ever sent the letter, I'd be less upset about all this. ONce they sent the letter, I felt entitled to reimbursement as they claimed they were standing behind the defective part. Delaying the scheduled repair and returning a shipped part is unreasonable to expect of a customer.
The one and only thing they have on their side is that the letter indicated if repairs were already completed for this part the individual would be reimbursed.
They WERE saying the repairs were not completed and therefore I should have gone to an Audi dealer upon receiving the letter.
On my side I have my half dozen points I make in my post above, plus the fact that I could argue the repairs were "underway" upon my receipt of the letter. The part was ordered, the repair scheduled, and the problem already diagnosed and coded. A little leeway is appropriate here.
It is absurd that they would reimburse me for shipping and restocking fees for cancelling the work with the independent and sending the ordered part back to the dealer to have it installed at a later date.
They called me Yesterday. The same person said upon speaking to a supervisor the decision has remained the same, they will pay me for the first repair, and deny the 2nd due to my having admitted I received the letter before repairs were completed.
This doesn't sit well with me, and I have to rely on her word over the phone she spoke with a manager or supervisor????? I never spoke with anyone else! Perhaps she gets a bonus for denying claims? I think a letter is in order to Audi of America's management regarding this case before I give up on them.
UPDATE: Yesterday before closing time I phoned them again and spoke with a different representative and said I wanted to appeal to the supervisor that my previous representative said they spoke with, or to the person one level above them, or write a letter to someone.
They said they'd re-appeal it to that supervisor or another one, and get back to me right away. They called today, they are covering both repairs. Congratulations to Audi for doing the right thing. I did point out I was a good Audi customer, enthusiast, Audi Club member, and that this absurd denial of claim was a ridiculous reason for Audi to potentially lose a customer. THAT got their attention. Perhaps it was a mistake, but perhaps they were just saving face when they said they apologized for the problems I was having, but that they had misunderstood and been miscommunicated with in how to handle these reimbursement claims regarding my issue (the repairs being completed after the letter was sent out but started before received issue I suppose and assume).
However, they did mention on this latest call that they have a formula for paying for "independent" reimbursements at a rate less than 100% of the costs, and that they'd be making those calculations and I'd be notified shortly. I hope it's not anything ridiculous, because my mechanic's labor rate was already much lower than the dealership's would have been. The letter stated nothing of reimbursements being "shortchanged."
At this point I'll be happy with .75 cents on the dollar they've put up such a fight! But I'm glad to see that manager's still have some common sense and decency at good companies. I was sure that going up the ladder would eventually result in the right and honest decision at Audi.
Kudos to Audi.