I was at my Lexus dealership this morning for car wash. The manager asked if I had had an opportunity to see the new ES and LS sedans. I responded that I had not, so he took me upstairs to the parking garage and allowed me to test drive the new ES and LS sedans.
My initial take on the new ES sedan is that it rides and handles very much like the 2012 model, however the interior and exterior are quite a departure from the 2012. The large NAV and info screen and monitor is almost identical to my 2013 GS. The seats are not quite as comfortable and the quality, overall, is less impressive than my GS. Remember this is a front-wheel Drve vehicle, not my favorite drivetrain. The vehicle is not as stiff as my GS and seemed cushier and less taut on corners. Horsepower is about 40 less than the GS and noticeably less perky off the line. But for a luxury vehicle with an MSRP in the high 40's, I believe the Audi and BMW to be superior in just about every aspect except YHE quality of the leather.
Now the LS460 is something totally different. Both the ES and LS sport the new Spindle front end, just like the GS. On the LS, the Spindle front end seems way too sporty and pronounced for the flagship sedan we have all become familiar with. The ride and handling are superb and the cabin and it's interiors are superb. With a price tag of $70,000+, it is a vehicle I would definitely purchase over an S Class Mercedes and a 7 Series BMW, but only because it is priced almost $20,000 less than those vehicles. If pricing were not an issue, I would go for th BMW 7 Series.
The LS460L (longer wheel base) is my preferred chassis due to the additional leg room. The car is darn quick w/an 8 speed transmission.
But quite frankly, I prefer my GS350 over both vehicles for price, ride, handling, cornering and acceleration. As for comfort and convenience features, the LS is loaded, but is about the same technology offerings as the GS.
I recommend the LS only for pricing, but the GS is more like a German engineered car while the LS and ES are more typically Japanese/American in ride and handling.
I would want to know what the dealership does to claim cars "certified germ free" after treating it.... spray a can of Lysol inside the interior?
The device has been tested and the lab says your car will be 99% germ free. The dealer cleans the car out but that is strictly surface and doesn't necessarily mean the car is actuall "germ free".
I think I was my car about once every 2 or 3 weeks. Seems that whenever I feel like getting the car washed it is going to rain that night or the next day. We professionally cleaned the inside of the 335 after 5 years just before trading it in. But, some people get their cars washed and often cleaned on the inside every week.
I am not too motivated by germaphobia myself, but there might be enough people who could be interested.
The thing that bothers me more than germs is dust. A new car loses it's newness for me when the plastic gauge fronts get dusty enough to need cleaning, which is about two weeks after purchase.
I think Mike's opinions are 4 years old, before engines were improved. He may also have OCD (Obsessive compulsive disorder) and just like to do things more often than he really has to.
No, one year at most- based on the copyright date. And can you explain how coolant, manual transmission oil, and final drive oil went to a lifetime fill with no changes in the fluids. Do you know any other vehicle manufacture that considers coolant to be a lifetime fill?
I don't know what makes him more knowledgeable than BMW Corporation. He has an agenda too, to make him standout as the knowledgeable BMW guy. Almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, BMW now provides free maintenance so they are saving a few bucks and cutting back on the requirements. I dunno???
Well UOAs for one thing- backed up by my own UOAs. I've got proof that the oil doesn't last past 10,000 miles in my experience, so why don't you get your 535i's oil analyzed at the first change and we'll see if Mike or BMW NA is correct regarding a safe OCI...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I get the oil/filter changed and tires rotated every 5k miles. I think it can add a lot to the tire life. When I had my Focus, the OEM tires were rated for 28k miles, but I replaced them at 38k, as we were headed into winter. My wife's Escape has over 45k on the 65k rated Michelins, and it looks like they are good for a chunk more than that. Regular rotations also even out the tire wear which can be important for AWD vehicles. Getting back to oil, Ford uses a semi synthetic 5W20, and I've had the oil change message show up a few times in my old Explorer around 5k.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Of course you are going to put this behind you, you're just not there yet. Convertible rides are very therapeutic. I'm definitely more in the moment after 20 minutes or so.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
That is because BMW is paying for oil changes for the first 3 years, so 15,000 is just fine with them. If the customer was paying you would get the 3,000 mile rec.
You are making my blood pressure go up by bringing this up again. You made a big mistake by not taking these crooks to small claims court. If you didn't sign a release it is still not too late. I think just the threat of taking them to court would have made them pay up.
"...I hear synthetic oil changes can cost $140..."
Is that something special to the Passat? My Eclipse at the dealer only cost $70 for synthetic and I thought that was a rip off. When there's no snow on the ground I change it myself for about $30 including filter.
The only car with an oil monitor I have is the 93 Deville. The first time the light came on @ 2500 miles after an oil change. Since it uses about a quart of oil every 1000. (typical of Caddys of that era) I would have thought it would go longer
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Both the ES and LS sport the new Spindle front end, just like the GS. On the LS, the Spindle front end seems way too sporty and pronounced for the flagship sedan..
I agree completely. According to many, both the ES and LS had an image problem attracting mostly older buyers. Lexus's marketing approach for the 2013 models is to lower the demographic age group by introducing the aggressive (and perhaps ugly) spindle look. Toyota has done the same thing with the new Avalon and if their strategy works they will attract a different kind of buyer.
...And that leaves a huge niche for the older customer who generally has more money and can afford a high price luxury car. Thus, a wonderful opportunity for Cadillac and Buick to fill that potential void.
I wouldn't pay that kind of money to certify that I was 100% germ free.
Of course nothing is 100% germ free. The minute someone breathes in a car it gets covered with a million different kind of germs. Not to mention the air itself which is teaming.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wow, never would have thought that! How deep was that water? You'd think the water would have it enter through the intake to cause hydrolock. You'd also think that if it did the engine would die right then and there.
I'd be interested in hearing more about this. :confuse: ">
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"...a steering wheel has more germs on it than a toilet seat..."
When was the last time you caught anything off a toilet seat?
If you could see all the germs that float around in the air you breath it would give you a fit. We walk in a literal ocean of germs all our lives.
Do you know what the greatest cause of polio was before they found a vaccine? Clean houses! As societies became more civilized babies weren't exposed to polio germs early enough and didn't gain immunity. When they were exposed finally at an older age the virus was much deadlier.
If it weren't for the bacteria off that toilet seat getting into your gut you wouldn't be able to digest your food.
Some scientists say that people are just convenient packages to transport germs around their world.
Yuck! :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I still don't buy the germ free concept. Circulating air is full of germs
Say you put some uncooked chicken on your counter. There could be samanella there and it could get on other foods. If you wash the counter with something like Pine Sol it will kill those germs. Also odour producing germs.
Same principle for the car...it kills the germs. If you think germs are just going to come back right away there is no point in cleaning anything.
Anyway, you guys have made me decide to tell my friend I don't think most people will go for the idea. I thought it would be nice to be able to get a 99% germ free used car.
When's the last time you caught anything off a toilet seat?
Good grief - toilet seats - ugh!
I was reading an article in the Miami Herald a few months ago that researched the spread of virus's and the flu (viral infection) in the local casinos down here. In Broward County (just north of Miami-Dade County) has 14 Vegas style casinos. They strongly suggested the wearing of gloves and a surgical type mask Shen playing the slot machines or handling chips at the blackjack tables. They found those casinos to be breeding grounds for virus's because so many people handle the buttons and the chips.
Interesting research. I wondered why every time I go there I get sick - and now I know. The other place that was highly contagious was on a transcontinental flight in a plane.
The thing that bothers me more than germs is dust.
My internet exopert at work said to get a foam to clean computer screens. I was noticing the navigation unit is really dusty in my car, I think I will clean it with foam.
You put it on the cloth then go over the surface. Liquids could get inside and the foam won't scratch the surface.
Nonsense. If this was really THE reason, the condition-based program would tell the owners to start changing oil at smaller intervals after expiration of the program (50K miles). Or are you in a position that they are planning for massive engine failures at 60-80k miles? If so, why would they sell extended warranties? Or is it perhaps it is 120 thousand miles when we should expect BMWs in undriveable conditions on roadside? Shouldn't we see already some massive failures for those 2001-2003 models that had free maintenance program and now came of age and mileage? The conspiracy theory simply does not add up.
It also has to be pointed that rest of the world has had long oil change intervals for long time, 10-20 years. It is not just European cars, but Hondas, Toyotas, Opels, Fords, and Hyundais, too. So is it more likely perhaps, that US practice of 3000 mile oil changes is simply an antiquated remnant of old times, honed by mechanics and dealers for their profits rather than real concern that the cars would fall apart if the owners don't come every three months/3 thousand miles?
The rest of the world moved on and some Euro brands reflect that change, but Japanese and US manufacturers are probably too afraid (or too weak) to enforce proper oil grades on dealers. There is some past record of Chrysler dealers using substandard oil on turbos some 20 years ago and engines failing, but nothing recently.
I'm even inclined to believe that they simply keep old recommendations due to dealer's pressures to preserve their profits. Customers would suddenly stop coming every three months, what a disaster. Another (unlikely, but possible) explanation is that US-spec engines of those Toyotas, Chevys and Hondas are somehow subpar to those sold in Europe or Japan, so they need 3 thousand mile intervals, as opposed those Opels, Fords, Hondas, across the Pond that can do with 12k-15k intervals.
Myth Busters did a segment on just that topic where they tested a bathroom for E Coli bacteria on all sorts of things. They found it everywhere especially on the doorknob. They even found it on a toothbrush sealed in plastic from the factory.
Again, Yuck! :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
And can you explain how coolant, manual transmission oil, and final drive oil went to a lifetime fill with no changes in the fluids. Do you know any other vehicle manufacture that considers coolant to be a lifetime fill?
I tried to find something about changing coolant and nothing is mentioned. If BMW was trying to make money on coolant they would tell you to replace it at 80K miles when it is out of warranty any way. Maybe the system is so well built it just keeps circulating and doesn't breakdown. Or maybe it is something they check when you have your oil done and they can take a reading. Maybe they think it should be done by them on their equipment. The same with manual transmission fluid.
why don't you get your 535i's oil analyzed at the first change and we'll see if Mike or BMW NA is correct regarding a safe OCI...
I won't be getting my oil analysed. I don't even know how accurate that analysis is. They may be able to obtain certain information but I don't know if they really know that your oil should not have gone past 10K miles. My last car went about 18K miles before it's first and second oil change and it was running fine, never had to add a drop of oil to it. My wife's car is about the same and I have had to add about 4 quarts (I guess) over 5 years. They both run and sound as good as new.
The thing is, they would make more money and do more service by telling you to change your oil or coolant. I assume they want the cars to last especially if they are selling extended warranties. I just don't see a problem, and engines would be blowing out all over the place.
Don't discourage him. There are a LOT of germaphobes out there who would pay for the IDEA of a germ free car. Hey, if they'll pay money to fill their tires with Nitrogen, they'll pay for anything.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
...I hear synthetic oil changes can cost $140..." Is that something special to the Passat?
The sales manager said to buy the $750 service deal and you would get service that would normally cost $1500. He happened to say even an oil change could cost $140. Maybe he meant an oil change plus other work that lots of car companies seem to do at regular periods.
I think my brother often paid a few hundred dollars for milestone work done to his Civic.
I think you are spoiling your cars doing oil changes at 3000 miles. But, it is cheap therapy if you feel you are doing your car some good.
They recommend ANNUAL car service (or mileage). And UK is smaller (much more likely short trip city driving than average US vehicle). At the same time, US Ford is telling their owners that their engines need oil every six months/7500 miles and then double that for severe schedule. These are either SAME engines, or very similar (same family/generation). I'm sure similar story would be for Vauxhall/Opel/Chevy, Toyota, Honda and so on.
So it looks to me that it is not BMW not wanting to pay for necessary service, but rather EVERYBODY ELSE conspiring to coax their customers to show up and pay up for UNNECESSARY service. Unless, indeed US-market cars are somehow so much more fragile than UK cars.
It just occurred to me: making so many unnecessary oil changes is not only wasting money, but also bad for environment. Disposing perfectly good oil will contribute to damage on environment, not just one's wallet.
Some scientists say that people are just convenient packages to transport germs around their world.
Here's the headline and the story is there too:
How clean is your car? Steering wheels have nine times more germs than public toilet seat By Daily Mail Reporter UPDATED: 19:00 GMT, 4 May 2011 Comments (76) Share
..Keep this in mind next time you make a pit stop at a fast-food drive-through - the steering wheel of your car harbours nine times more germs than a public toilet seat.
Research has found that while 80 bacteria lurk on each square inch of toilet, around 700 harmful bugs inhabit the car's interior. The study also revealed that 42 per cent of motorists regularly dine while driving.
. Customers would suddenly stop coming every three months, what a disaster.
Right on! I think that is the real reason, the dealers love you coming in for oil changes, they can usually sell you other stuff at the same time, such as wiper blades or gas additives.
And, I agree, cars would be failing left and right if this was a real problem, and BMW would quickly go out of business and have very poor used cars to sell.
Some makes just don't have the ability to make efficient engines that can handle 15K mile oil changes....that's one reason you pay more for a bmw.
I think Mike's opinions are 4 years old, before engines were improved.
Well, it's clear that opinions are truly like navels.
Mike Miller speaks truth to those of us who know how to tear engines down, refurbish the weary bits & put them back together. He has, if possible, even less patience than I do for electronic, well let's just say nonsense, that adds little or nothing to the driving experience but breaks on a regular basis, but knows all the mechanical stuff cold.
One opinion that you and he share is that no one should ever own a modern (that'd be one of those less than four year old units you seem to prefer) BMW out of warranty. The old ones weren't like that. They last far longer than even the "extended warranty" period, in large part because they were maintained properly, which involves, among other things, changing expensive fluids on a regular basis. "Lifetime fills" have a way of becoming self-fulfilling -- when the component that would have lasted 350K miles otherwise packs up at 105K miles, well, I guess that pretty well defines its lifetime.
I still pay for Roundel every year because it reminds me, in spades, why the "new and improved" cars aren't for me. It also illustrates that the people who built the BMW brand on enthusiasts have long since left the building. It's now a mass-consumer product because that's where the money is.
Call it sour grapes, but if you think Mike Miller doesn't know more than any three other people on earth (I think 'burner might sign up here) about maintaining BMWs, then let's just call it another data point in your entertaining series of opinions on so many subjects.
My point is they actually do have that ability. BMW's 15K interval is nothing unique overseas. And those are same brands and manufacturers (Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.) that here tell you to come every 6000 miles for same/similar cars they sell here, there they say it's OK to come once a year or 15K miles.
One opinion that you and he share is that no one should ever own a modern (that'd be one of those less than four year old units you seem to prefer) BMW out of warranty
I don't know, all those 2005-2007 out-of-warranty BMWs abandoned on highways are really visible, one could pick up one for themselves for free on Turpike (Florida or New Jersey)
There is one caveat. New crop of turbocharged (biturbos usually) direct ignition engines basically squeezing last drop of gas while increasing horsepower. BMW's 2.0 engine with 240 hp AND 30+ mpg, VAG's small 1.4l (Euro version) getting over 150 hp, Ford's Ecoboost, GM's Ecotec. Those all make more hp than ever and get high gas mileage. They are more stressed than ever, have lots of electronics to keep timing and other aspects of their work just right. It is not completely clear if they'll last as long as older less-stressed engines. It is already noticed that new diesel engines (small kind), while more clean and efficient, are much more susceptible to failures due to fuel impurities and they also require additional maintenance, like urea tank replacements and such.
Steering wheel has way more germs than a toilet seat
If this is true, I must thank the Lord for making toilets to dump in rather than sitting backwards in a car and trying to take a dump into my GS's steering wheel. Boy, are we lucky and blessed, or what?
I don't even know how accurate that analysis is. They may be able to obtain certain information but I don't know if they really know that your oil should not have gone past 10K miles.
I'll have to let Blackstone Laboratories know that they don't know as much as they think they do...
I assume they want the cars to last especially if they are selling extended warranties. I just don't see a problem, and engines would be blowing out all over the place.
Your cars, your choice. Me, I'm not comfortable with a 15,000 mile OCI when I know that the additive package has been completely depleted within the first 10,000 miles.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
It also illustrates that the people who built the BMW brand on enthusiasts have long since left the building. It's now a mass-consumer product because that's where the money is.
Sad but true. I'd say that with respect to new BMW buyers the ratio of "wearers"/poseurs to enthusiasts is now something like 10 to 1(M cars might be a bit better). Now I see fools like the guy I met at the F30 3er intro- who proudly state that when they get behind the wheel they "don't want to have to think about anything." :sick:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You are making my blood pressure go up by bringing this up again. You made a big mistake by not taking these crooks to small claims court.
Fortunately my blood pressure is one of my better parts so mine doesn't go up, at least I don't think so. But every now and then I think back about not going to small claims court. I should have tried that avenue just for grins if nothing else.
If you didn't sign a release it is still not too late.
I didn't sign anything. I just sold the car as it sat to their used car manager and like I said before, they put a new engine in it, put it on their lot for almost $10K and it was gone in 2 or 3 days. Probably got around $8K for it if I had to guess. I got $2800. First offer was $2K.
If there is a way to take this to court now I'm all ears. Sounds pretty good to me. Just when they aren't looking I get in a shot from no where. Yeah, I like that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think you are spoiling your cars doing oil changes at 3000 miles.
Driver, perhaps you are too young to remember the old Fram Oil Filter TV commercial--"Pay me now or pay me later." Yes, I know it was the 1970s and oil quality was not as good as they are today but that TV catchphrase has stuck in mind ever since.
I live in New England and I drive about 8K miles per year but I change my oil at the beginning of every season (summer, winter, spring and fall.) Although the owners manual specifies 7,500-mile interval for oil changes for my Buick LaCrosse I use the 3-month cycle because I do mostly city and suburban driving that would probably be classified as severe driving conditions.
To me the cost of a synthetic oil change is a small price to pay for peace of mind, real or imagined.
I'm not comfortable with a 15,000 mile OCI when I know that the additive package has been completely depleted within the first 10,000 miles
If it was that important of a factor then why do 98% of BMWs who don't use Blackstone still run fine.
I read several Blackstone reports, guys who are obsessive compulsive about their oil....you have a ounce too much sodium, there's a drop more copper than you should have, your oil would have held up for 8K miles so don't change it at 7K miles. I am not sure those slight findings really mean much in the real world.
I wonder if these people get their blood work and urine samples tested this vigorously (I have a friend who goes to a naturalpath guy and he tells him his copper is down, or his iron isn't as good as it should be - I don't think it really does much but if he believes it then that is the main thing).
I understand if you are racing your car or are a real technical pro and you want this information, but I it just isn't that important to 98% make that 99.9% of the population who have other things to do.
I don't see any benefit to BMW telling you oil changes can be longer than necessary. They would more than make up the dollars when the car is out of warranty and you would bring it in more often to have the oil changed.
The Audi will go 10K between oil changes, the BMW was 15K, so it wasn't a factor at all in deciding which car we wanted.
Conspiracy theories make interesting reading, but they are always based on the fact you can never have a real discussion with a conspiracy theorist - they choose something that you can't really prove one way or the other.
I'll take my chances along with 99.9% of the other BMW owners.
I live in New England and I drive about 8K miles per year but I change my oil at the beginning of every season
If you drive 8K miles a year and get your oil changed 4 times a year that's 2000 miles between oil changes.
I would say it's like a placebo affect, if it makes you feel better then by all means do it....but, is it necessary? I don't think so. If you are driving under severe conditions twice a year is probably more than sufficient....I'd rather use the money for a nice dinner or buy the kids or grandchildren something.
I remember those Fram commercials, You can pay me now, or you can pay me later. And I believe in that philosophy for the most part. However, sometimes I think "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" works too. In your situation, I think somewhere in between would do, but you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
>those Fram commercials, You can pay me now, or you can pay me later.
Ironic that the company making the cheapest quality cardboard filters was sellling based on being good maintenance to use more filters in oil changes. In the old days, they built filters in a small town in this general area. Now they're all made in some distant country and show poor quality in the comparisons where people have disassembled the filters and compared to other brands.
Lol, the only BMW I ever owned burned about that same amount of oil. Maybe that is why they can go 15,000 miles between oil changes...as you have to keep adding oil on a regular basis anyway.
Comments
My initial take on the new ES sedan is that it rides and handles very much like the 2012 model, however the interior and exterior are quite a departure from the 2012. The large NAV and info screen and monitor is almost identical to my 2013 GS. The seats are not quite as comfortable and the quality, overall, is less impressive than my GS. Remember this is a front-wheel Drve vehicle, not my favorite drivetrain. The vehicle is not as stiff as my GS and seemed cushier and less taut on corners. Horsepower is about 40 less than the GS and noticeably less perky off the line. But for a luxury vehicle with an MSRP in the high 40's, I believe the Audi and BMW to be superior in just about every aspect except YHE quality of the leather.
Now the LS460 is something totally different. Both the ES and LS sport the new Spindle front end, just like the GS. On the LS, the Spindle front end seems way too sporty and pronounced for the flagship sedan we have all become familiar with. The ride and handling are superb and the cabin and it's interiors are superb. With a price tag of $70,000+, it is a vehicle I would definitely purchase over an S Class Mercedes and a 7 Series BMW, but only because it is priced almost $20,000 less than those vehicles. If pricing were not an issue, I would go for th BMW 7 Series.
The LS460L (longer wheel base) is my preferred chassis due to the additional leg room. The car is darn quick w/an 8 speed transmission.
But quite frankly, I prefer my GS350 over both vehicles for price, ride, handling, cornering and acceleration. As for comfort and convenience features, the LS is loaded, but is about the same technology offerings as the GS.
I recommend the LS only for pricing, but the GS is more like a German engineered car while the LS and ES are more typically Japanese/American in ride and handling.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The device has been tested and the lab says your car will be 99% germ free.
The dealer cleans the car out but that is strictly surface and doesn't necessarily mean the car is actuall "germ free".
I think I was my car about once every 2 or 3 weeks. Seems that whenever I feel like getting the car washed it is going to rain that night or the next day. We professionally cleaned the inside of the 335 after 5 years just before trading it in. But, some people get their cars washed and often cleaned on the inside every week.
I am not too motivated by germaphobia myself, but there might be enough people who could be interested.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
No, one year at most- based on the copyright date. And can you explain how coolant, manual transmission oil, and final drive oil went to a lifetime fill with no changes in the fluids. Do you know any other vehicle manufacture that considers coolant to be a lifetime fill?
I don't know what makes him more knowledgeable than BMW Corporation. He has an agenda too, to make him standout as the knowledgeable BMW guy. Almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, BMW now provides free maintenance so they are saving a few bucks and cutting back on the requirements. I dunno???
Well UOAs for one thing- backed up by my own UOAs. I've got proof that the oil doesn't last past 10,000 miles in my experience, so why don't you get your 535i's oil analyzed at the first change and we'll see if Mike or BMW NA is correct regarding a safe OCI...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
When I had my Focus, the OEM tires were rated for 28k miles, but I replaced them at 38k, as we were headed into winter.
My wife's Escape has over 45k on the 65k rated Michelins, and it looks like they are good for a chunk more than that.
Regular rotations also even out the tire wear which can be important for AWD vehicles.
Getting back to oil, Ford uses a semi synthetic 5W20, and I've had the oil change message show up a few times in my old Explorer around 5k.
You had me worried there, thought you might trade your car in and get one of these new ones.
Thanks for the reviews though, I enjoyed finding out your impressions for these cars.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Convertible rides are very therapeutic.
I'm definitely more in the moment after 20 minutes or so.
I'm in the OCD oil change club, either 3000 with conventional and 5-6000 with synthetic. I know it's overkill but it makes me feel better.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Is that something special to the Passat? My Eclipse at the dealer only cost $70 for synthetic and I thought that was a rip off. When there's no snow on the ground I change it myself for about $30 including filter.
The only car with an oil monitor I have is the 93 Deville. The first time the light came on @ 2500 miles after an oil change. Since it uses about a quart of oil every 1000. (typical of Caddys of that era) I would have thought it would go longer
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I agree completely. According to many, both the ES and LS had an image problem attracting mostly older buyers. Lexus's marketing approach for the 2013 models is to lower the demographic age group by introducing the aggressive (and perhaps ugly) spindle look. Toyota has done the same thing with the new Avalon and if their strategy works they will attract a different kind of buyer.
...And that leaves a huge niche for the older customer who generally has more money and can afford a high price luxury car. Thus, a wonderful opportunity for Cadillac and Buick to fill that potential void.
I wouldn't pay that kind of money to certify that I was 100% germ free.
Of course nothing is 100% germ free. The minute someone breathes in a car it gets covered with a million different kind of germs. Not to mention the air itself which is teaming.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Wow, never would have thought that! How deep was that water? You'd think the water would have it enter through the intake to cause hydrolock. You'd also think that if it did the engine would die right then and there.
I'd be interested in hearing more about this. :confuse: ">
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
When was the last time you caught anything off a toilet seat?
If you could see all the germs that float around in the air you breath it would give you a fit. We walk in a literal ocean of germs all our lives.
Do you know what the greatest cause of polio was before they found a vaccine? Clean houses! As societies became more civilized babies weren't exposed to polio germs early enough and didn't gain immunity. When they were exposed finally at an older age the virus was much deadlier.
If it weren't for the bacteria off that toilet seat getting into your gut you wouldn't be able to digest your food.
Some scientists say that people are just convenient packages to transport germs around their world.
Yuck! :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Say you put some uncooked chicken on your counter. There could be samanella there and it could get on other foods. If you wash the counter with something like Pine Sol it will kill those germs. Also odour producing germs.
Same principle for the car...it kills the germs. If you think germs are just going to come back right away there is no point in cleaning anything.
Anyway, you guys have made me decide to tell my friend I don't think most people will go for the idea. I thought it would be nice to be able to get a 99% germ free used car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good grief - toilet seats - ugh!
I was reading an article in the Miami Herald a few months ago that researched the spread of virus's and the flu (viral infection) in the local casinos down here. In Broward County (just north of Miami-Dade County) has 14 Vegas style casinos. They strongly suggested the wearing of gloves and a surgical type mask Shen playing the slot machines or handling chips at the blackjack tables. They found those casinos to be breeding grounds for virus's because so many people handle the buttons and the chips.
Interesting research. I wondered why every time I go there I get sick - and now I know. The other place that was highly contagious was on a transcontinental flight in a plane.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
My internet exopert at work said to get a foam to clean computer screens. I was noticing the navigation unit is really dusty in my car, I think I will clean it with foam.
You put it on the cloth then go over the surface. Liquids could get inside and the foam won't scratch the surface.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It also has to be pointed that rest of the world has had long oil change intervals for long time, 10-20 years. It is not just European cars, but Hondas, Toyotas, Opels, Fords, and Hyundais, too. So is it more likely perhaps, that US practice of 3000 mile oil changes is simply an antiquated remnant of old times, honed by mechanics and dealers for their profits rather than real concern that the cars would fall apart if the owners don't come every three months/3 thousand miles?
The rest of the world moved on and some Euro brands reflect that change, but Japanese and US manufacturers are probably too afraid (or too weak) to enforce proper oil grades on dealers. There is some past record of Chrysler dealers using substandard oil on turbos some 20 years ago and engines failing, but nothing recently.
I'm even inclined to believe that they simply keep old recommendations due to dealer's pressures to preserve their profits. Customers would suddenly stop coming every three months, what a disaster. Another (unlikely, but possible) explanation is that US-spec engines of those Toyotas, Chevys and Hondas are somehow subpar to those sold in Europe or Japan, so they need 3 thousand mile intervals, as opposed those Opels, Fords, Hondas, across the Pond that can do with 12k-15k intervals.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That's true.
Myth Busters did a segment on just that topic where they tested a bathroom for E Coli bacteria on all sorts of things. They found it everywhere especially on the doorknob. They even found it on a toothbrush sealed in plastic from the factory.
Again, Yuck! :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I tried to find something about changing coolant and nothing is mentioned. If BMW was trying to make money on coolant they would tell you to replace it at 80K miles when it is out of warranty any way. Maybe the system is so well built it just keeps circulating and doesn't breakdown. Or maybe it is something they check when you have your oil done and they can take a reading. Maybe they think it should be done by them on their equipment. The same with manual transmission fluid.
why don't you get your 535i's oil analyzed at the first change and we'll see if Mike or BMW NA is correct regarding a safe OCI...
I won't be getting my oil analysed. I don't even know how accurate that analysis is. They may be able to obtain certain information but I don't know if they really know that your oil should not have gone past 10K miles.
My last car went about 18K miles before it's first and second oil change and it was running fine, never had to add a drop of oil to it. My wife's car is about the same and I have had to add about 4 quarts (I guess) over 5 years. They both run and sound as good as new.
The thing is, they would make more money and do more service by telling you to change your oil or coolant. I assume they want the cars to last especially if they are selling extended warranties. I just don't see a problem, and engines would be blowing out all over the place.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Don't discourage him. There are a LOT of germaphobes out there who would pay for the IDEA of a germ free car. Hey, if they'll pay money to fill their tires with Nitrogen, they'll pay for anything.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Is that something special to the Passat?
The sales manager said to buy the $750 service deal and you would get service that would normally cost $1500. He happened to say even an oil change could cost $140. Maybe he meant an oil change plus other work that lots of car companies seem to do at regular periods.
I think my brother often paid a few hundred dollars for milestone work done to his Civic.
I think you are spoiling your cars doing oil changes at 3000 miles. But, it is cheap therapy if you feel you are doing your car some good.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
At least they are my own germs. :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
So it looks to me that it is not BMW not wanting to pay for necessary service, but rather EVERYBODY ELSE conspiring to coax their customers to show up and pay up for UNNECESSARY service. Unless, indeed US-market cars are somehow so much more fragile than UK cars.
It just occurred to me: making so many unnecessary oil changes is not only wasting money, but also bad for environment. Disposing perfectly good oil will contribute to damage on environment, not just one's wallet.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Here's the headline and the story is there too:
How clean is your car? Steering wheels have nine times more germs than public toilet seat
By Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED: 19:00 GMT, 4 May 2011
Comments (76) Share
..Keep this in mind next time you make a pit stop at a fast-food drive-through - the steering wheel of your car harbours nine times more germs than a public toilet seat.
Research has found that while 80 bacteria lurk on each square inch of toilet, around 700 harmful bugs inhabit the car's interior.
The study also revealed that 42 per cent of motorists regularly dine while driving.
Steering wheel has way more germs than toilet seat
Well, you will have lots of germs to digest the food you are eating while driving if this is true.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Right on! I think that is the real reason, the dealers love you coming in for oil changes, they can usually sell you other stuff at the same time, such as wiper blades or gas additives.
And, I agree, cars would be failing left and right if this was a real problem, and BMW would quickly go out of business and have very poor used cars to sell.
Some makes just don't have the ability to make efficient engines that can handle 15K mile oil changes....that's one reason you pay more for a bmw.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think so, but no one around here seems to be willing to pay for a germ free car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, it's clear that opinions are truly like navels.
Mike Miller speaks truth to those of us who know how to tear engines down, refurbish the weary bits & put them back together. He has, if possible, even less patience than I do for electronic, well let's just say nonsense, that adds little or nothing to the driving experience but breaks on a regular basis, but knows all the mechanical stuff cold.
One opinion that you and he share is that no one should ever own a modern (that'd be one of those less than four year old units you seem to prefer) BMW out of warranty. The old ones weren't like that. They last far longer than even the "extended warranty" period, in large part because they were maintained properly, which involves, among other things, changing expensive fluids on a regular basis. "Lifetime fills" have a way of becoming self-fulfilling -- when the component that would have lasted 350K miles otherwise packs up at 105K miles, well, I guess that pretty well defines its lifetime.
I still pay for Roundel every year because it reminds me, in spades, why the "new and improved" cars aren't for me. It also illustrates that the people who built the BMW brand on enthusiasts have long since left the building. It's now a mass-consumer product because that's where the money is.
Call it sour grapes, but if you think Mike Miller doesn't know more than any three other people on earth (I think 'burner might sign up here) about maintaining BMWs, then let's just call it another data point in your entertaining series of opinions on so many subjects.
And they had you going across town in a taxi!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I don't know, all those 2005-2007 out-of-warranty BMWs abandoned on highways are really visible, one could pick up one for themselves for free on Turpike (Florida or New Jersey)
2018 430i Gran Coupe
LOL.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I gotcha! Guess the marketing guys are more aggressive over here....scare people into getting oil changes more often.
Oil and gas cost more than twice as much in Europe, so I guess they don't want to throw out oil after 3000 miles, if they don't have to.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If this is true, I must thank the Lord for making toilets to dump in rather than sitting backwards in a car and trying to take a dump into my GS's steering wheel. Boy, are we lucky and blessed, or what?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I'll have to let Blackstone Laboratories know that they don't know as much as they think they do...
I assume they want the cars to last especially if they are selling extended warranties. I just don't see a problem, and engines would be blowing out all over the place.
Your cars, your choice. Me, I'm not comfortable with a 15,000 mile OCI when I know that the additive package has been completely depleted within the first 10,000 miles.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Sad but true. I'd say that with respect to new BMW buyers the ratio of "wearers"/poseurs to enthusiasts is now something like 10 to 1(M cars might be a bit better). Now I see fools like the guy I met at the F30 3er intro- who proudly state that when they get behind the wheel they "don't want to have to think about anything." :sick:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Fortunately my blood pressure is one of my better parts so mine doesn't go up, at least I don't think so. But every now and then I think back about not going to small claims court. I should have tried that avenue just for grins if nothing else.
If you didn't sign a release it is still not too late.
I didn't sign anything. I just sold the car as it sat to their used car manager and like I said before, they put a new engine in it, put it on their lot for almost $10K and it was gone in 2 or 3 days. Probably got around $8K for it if I had to guess. I got $2800. First offer was $2K.
If there is a way to take this to court now I'm all ears. Sounds pretty good to me. Just when they aren't looking I get in a shot from no where. Yeah, I like that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Driver, perhaps you are too young to remember the old Fram Oil Filter TV commercial--"Pay me now or pay me later." Yes, I know it was the 1970s and oil quality was not as good as they are today but that TV catchphrase has stuck in mind ever since.
I live in New England and I drive about 8K miles per year but I change my oil at the beginning of every season (summer, winter, spring and fall.) Although the owners manual specifies 7,500-mile interval for oil changes for my Buick LaCrosse I use the 3-month cycle because I do mostly city and suburban driving that would probably be classified as severe driving conditions.
To me the cost of a synthetic oil change is a small price to pay for peace of mind, real or imagined.
If it was that important of a factor then why do 98% of BMWs who don't use Blackstone still run fine.
I read several Blackstone reports, guys who are obsessive compulsive about their oil....you have a ounce too much sodium, there's a drop more copper than you should have, your oil would have held up for 8K miles so don't change it at 7K miles. I am not sure those slight findings really mean much in the real world.
I wonder if these people get their blood work and urine samples tested this vigorously (I have a friend who goes to a naturalpath guy and he tells him his copper is down, or his iron isn't as good as it should be - I don't think it really does much but if he believes it then that is the main thing).
I understand if you are racing your car or are a real technical pro and you want this information, but I it just isn't that important to
98%make that 99.9% of the population who have other things to do.I don't see any benefit to BMW telling you oil changes can be longer than necessary. They would more than make up the dollars when the car is out of warranty and you would bring it in more often to have the oil changed.
The Audi will go 10K between oil changes, the BMW was 15K, so it wasn't a factor at all in deciding which car we wanted.
Conspiracy theories make interesting reading, but they are always based on the fact you can never have a real discussion with a conspiracy theorist - they choose something that you can't really prove one way or the other.
I'll take my chances along with 99.9% of the other BMW owners.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you drive 8K miles a year and get your oil changed 4 times a year that's 2000 miles between oil changes.
I would say it's like a placebo affect, if it makes you feel better then by all means do it....but, is it necessary? I don't think so. If you are driving under severe conditions twice a year is probably more than sufficient....I'd rather use the money for a nice dinner or buy the kids or grandchildren something.
I remember those Fram commercials, You can pay me now, or you can pay me later. And I believe in that philosophy for the most part. However, sometimes I think "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" works too. In your situation, I think somewhere in between would do, but you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
Fram Commercial
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ironic that the company making the cheapest quality cardboard filters was sellling based on being good maintenance to use more filters in oil changes. In the old days, they built filters in a small town in this general area. Now they're all made in some distant country and show poor quality in the comparisons where people have disassembled the filters and compared to other brands.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460