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Comments
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
If the body just has a few spider webs in the paint. that's easily repaired....IF (big IF) you decide on a repaint. But, if it's minor, and you don't plan on doing a rotisserie restoration, leave it as is and make it a very fun driver.
Sounds really sweet.
Please keep us posted on the progress.
Today the screen said add oil as soon as possible, and the graph showed there was a minimum amount of oil left.
I drove to the BMW dealer, about 10 minutes from work, and bought 2 litres of synthetic BMW 5W 30 oil, and added one bottle which I think is a litre of oil. btw, isn't it nice that they finally put oil in handy bottles that you can unscrew, instead of looking for a funnel you have to jam into the can to get the oil out (like what do you do if you are in the middle of nowhere and need some oil).
I put the other can in the trunk, so I'll have one with me if it runs low. It did go 12K without adding oil, although the 2008 328 never needed oil, and it went 15000 miles before oil changes.
Oh well, $10 worth of oil a year to top up isn't too bad.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I remember our postings about oil changes on BMW's and the 15,000 mile limit. I also remember telling you that's BMW dealer changed my oil at 12,000 or one year, whichever came first.
My new Lexus requires oil changes once a calendar year or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first (full synthetic of course). For the life of me I cannot understand why BMW only does oil changes every 15,000 miles with no time equivalent (minimum of one oil change per year). 15,000 miles between oil changes is too long for my needs. I believe oil should be changed every 10,000 miles or once a year, like Lexus recommends. Lexus pays for only the first oil change at 10,000 miles and the first tire rotation at 5,000 miles, then the maintenance is paid for by the owner.
The free maintenance offered by BMW is great, but not the 15,000 mile interval between oil changes.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
There's driver training going on, but I thought it was in another part of the state.
Wow -- it has been awhile since you've added oil.
I agree. The "new" screw-top bottles are much easier to use. OTOH, when a case was 24 quart cans of oil, they were 59 cents apiece (Valvoline, Quaker State or Pennzoil).
I jest. And it was a good idea buying oil at the dealer. With those long oil change intervals the only way an oil can survive is to come loaded with additives and utilize a true Group IV synthetic base stock. Most sythetics stocked on North American shelves will be Group III. If you buy off the shelf intending to stick with 15,000 mile intervals, do your homework and only buy approved oils.
I know you feel strongly BMW's engines are superior and therefore less abusive to oil, but it's more a matter of the oil itself and marketing from the manufacturers. All engines shear and contaminate oil. Some worse than others, true, but for the most part in a predictable way.
Just saying...
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I think you have to trust the manufacturer at some point. BMW doesn't want their engines to fail because of bad oil. They are leaving themselves out on a limb if you buy an extended warranty after 4 years and want to keep going, if their oil change intervals aren't enough.
It is difficult to believe oil can last 15000 miles, but, I don't see what BMW would gain by stretching the mileage....maybe the cost of one extra oil change....which isn't worth what they would make up after the warranty period is over, and the bad reputation they would get as engines start seizing up.
I will say, once the warranty period is over, and they stop paying for oil changes, I would get it done more often...probably 8 or 10K miles.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
lol.......I had to add oil to my wife's 335 a few times over 5 years so I did buy oil and added it myself. Today I wasn't thinking, and I thought I'll go to the parts counter at the dealer, and I'll have them punch open a can of oil and ask to borrow the spout to pour it. Then, I remembered the screw top lids.
I guess I had so many old burners, like my 59 Austin Sprite that used a gallon of oil a week. Usually 10W 40 and I think I even used 10W 60.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
lol.......I had to add oil to my wife's 335 a few times over 5 years so I did buy oil and added it myself. Today I wasn't thinking, and I thought I'll go to the parts counter at the dealer, and I'll have them punch open a can of oil and ask to borrow the spout to pour it. Then, I remembered the screw top lids.
I guess I had so many old burners, like my 59 Austin Sprite that used a gallon of oil a week. Usually 10W 40 and I think I even used 10W 60, which was more like tar than oil.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have bought oil in containers with the screw top, but I have added more oil to cars in the old days of used cars when I carried my own punch and funnel device (those things must have a name).
I thought about going to an Esso dealer and getting their synthetic oil but I remember reading an article when we were talking about oil before, and it said BMW oil did have extra additives, and be sure to ask for that particular oil.....and that was probably when they mentioned Group IV.
I forgot what I was looking for, so I thought it would be better to get the best possible oil from the dealer. I may have just bought Esso oil, but, since every one doesn't like the 15K mile limit, I thought I would get the best possible oil available. I bought an extra one to take with, because your not always near a dealer when you need oil. I'll have to pick up some Audi oil for my wife's A4.
Thanks for the review ty...it confirms it is best to treat oil carefully.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Heavy oil has a higher first number.
10w 60 is like salad dressing.
My new dealer is 40 minutes away, and it is through heavy traffic. The closest dealer was my ex-dealer, and I don't think they would give me a free top up.
I tried to park so they wouldn't see the dealer licence frame, and tell me to get off their lot.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Lexus, Mercedes Benz, Infiniti and Jaguar, to name a few luxury, high end manufacturers, recommend that oil be drained and replaced every 10,000 miles or at least once every year, whichever comes first. BMW recommends every 15,000 miles with no time limit. When only one manufacturer out of many recommends a different interval for oil and filter changes, it gives one angst!
I personally believe BMW does this because they are paying for oil and filter changes.
I told you that in 2008, in my new 535i, the interval was every 12,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. My engine was really no different from your's, so why the significant change? I believe it was to reduce costs significantly. On general, not too much harm can be done to an engine, but I personally do not trust the manufacturer in this case with oil change intervals.
But I wouldn't buy another BMW at any cost or incentive because of my distrust of BMW when the factory, the dealer and the zone could not correct the same problems on two brand new 535i's back on 2008. When two identical cars with the same identical equipment and same color cannot be put in safe operating condition by anyone in the BMW organization, there is no possible reason why I should trust them!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but the only thing "special" about BMW's own oil is that it meets the BMW Group's Long-life LL-01 standard. Among readily available oils, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 and 5W-40 meet the standard, as does Mobil 1 0W-40. Here is BMW NA's official list, but it is out of date(as is the link on the NA web site).
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
It's his wife's truck; they used to be "All American" car buyers, but I corrupted them- to the point that their son(a UAW worker at Ford) bought a 3 Series... :P
Anyway, I gave him a contact at my dealer as well as my indie shop, recommending that he go to one or the other for everything but oil changes- and I offered to perform the changes for just the cost of the oil and the filter. Well, he didn't want to "impose" so he took it to a local shop for an oil change. Fast forward to Saturday, when he called and asked me if I could change the oil sometime this week as his local shop was busy. No problem; yesterday I stopped by my dealer and bought a filter and this morning he brought the X3 over. However, once I got into the job I discovered a textbook example of why you NEVER take a BMW to "Bubba's Fix-It Emporium."
First off, the drain plug was extremely difficult to loosen; when I finally did break it loose I found that the plug was missing its copper sealing washer. Bubba probably didn't notice it fall off when he drained the oil, so when he reinstalled the plug without the washer it probably dripped- so he really cranked down on the drain plug to stop the leak. Idiot.
Next up was changing the filter. Bubba had used a Fram cartridge which had plastic end caps(which were crumbling) and a filter medium that had started to distort. The correct BMW filter -manufactured by Mann of Germany- cost me $10.85 while Fram's alleged "filter" costs @$2.50 more.
Compare the Fram filter:
to the correct BMW(Mann) filter:
As you can see, the BMW filter also comes with a new drain plug sealing washer and a new o-ring for the oil filter housing cap. Anyway, I wiped out the filter housing as best I could, and I think I got most all of the plastic bits from the worthless Fram piece.
Finally, I poured in the requisite amount of Mobil 1 0W-40 and proceeded to reset the Oil Service light. Bubba hadn't done that either, probably because he thought it needed a special tool. Wrong again; the indicator is reset using just the ignition switch and the odometer reset button. And it's not exactly proprietary information, either- just type "BMW X3 SIA reset" into almost any search engine...
My friend kept trying to pay me for my labor, but for me, fixing everything Bubba screwed up was reward enough. It is a dead easy job if you have the correct parts and the readily available reset information.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That sounds logical, but just wouldn't really make sense. If you go 15K miles you will get 3 free oil changes. If you go 12K miles you will get 4 free oil changes. Would BMW ruin their reputation over a $50 or even $100 oil change. Once you are over 48000 miles you would buy your own oil changes, so they would make more money if you brought the car in at 10K intervals instead of 15K.
It sounds like a conspiracy theory, or at minimum really trying to read something into something that isn't there.
Your problems with your BMW were probably growing pain problems that they had to solve. The 535s had more problems when the last design was introduced...there were lots of technical innovations that had to get sorted out.
My friend with the Maserati and I came to the same conclusion. Although todays cars last longer, the electronics and computers are so complicated, we will either trade our cars in when the warranty is up (if we can afford it), or we will get an extended warranty. If the electronics start acting up it could be a bottomless pit.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
An interesting story and confirms what I have suspected. You can take a GM or Chrysler to a "Bubba Mechanic" and you will be fine. Don't risk taking a European car there though.
Having said that, we do have an indie garage in the area and they work on all luxury makes, and they are as good as or better than the BMW dealer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
actually, 48K is only the maintenance. The powertrain warranty is what, 60 or 70K (6 years)?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
For a while, I changed oil every 2,000 miles. But, that was because that's what my late Father recommended. Of course, he drove cars in his youth that required those types of oil changes.
Then, I went to 3,000 mile oil changes, because that's what the quickie lube places and dealerships recommended.
Then, it went to 5,000 mi changes to 7,500 mi changes because that's what the vehicle manufacturers recommended.
Now, in my BMW, I change every year, which usually means between 10K-12K miles.
I've never had an oil related engine failure.....in all the years I've been driving.
I've had cars that leaked or burned quite a bit of oil (a 4 cyl Ford Tempo comes immediately to mind, which burned and leaked oil from new). But, never a failure.
I did add 1/2 quart during that time which adds back in some fresh additives. Blackstone Labs asks if you added makeup oil during the miles on the oil change. I do not know if they calculate the residual original additive left by calculating out the "new" additive from the 1/2 quart or not.
Cost: $25 regular analysis + $10 for additive analysis.
I'd recommend a vinyl tubing piece from Lowes and siphon oil through the dipstick opening into the sample bottom from Blackstone.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Speaking of additives, I am looking for a cleaner to clean my cashmere colored leather performated seat in my 2011 Buick LaCrosse--a cleaner that will not fade the color or dry, crack or affect the heating and cooling mechanism in the seat.
The cashmere/cocao color combination looks nice but it is a pain to keep clean. For some reason, the leather seats seem to soak the dye from denim and other dark colored trousers. Even worse is the staining caused by my black leather (perhaps faux leather) jacket.
Any suggestions, short of taking the car to a detail store would be appreciated.
What if you don't have a dipstick?
Here we go again.
If I had a dipstick I probably would have forgot to check it. I checked the oil monitoring system 2 weeks ago and it showed oil was above minimum by about 10%. I thought it would last another 3000 miles until the next scheduled oil change but then the monitor said top up oil as soon as possible,
There was a nice graph showing the oil was right on minimum. I honestly think this was more accurate than using a dipstick, which is very difficult to read at the best of times. Another thing, since it was right on minimum, a full bottle of oil, brought it right to the full line.
I understand people getting upset because they miss their dipstick, but really, I can live very nicely without it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am by no means an expert on this particular topic, but you may consider going to a detail shop to have seat/leather protector applied.
You may want to read some reviews, but it is supposed to protect against thaose exact problems. Would probably be worth $200 to have protection applied, instead of trying to clean it off the seats all the time.
I don't know how good those products are, maybe someone else knows, but I would check it out if I had that problem. Any cleaners I have used just haven't worked that well, so I think a protective material may work better.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
BMW has also 1 year limit on oil change. Bear also in mind that in other markets (Europe, Japan), oil change recommendations on same brands (and more, like Ford, GM, Toyota and such) are close to BMWs. 20-30 thousand km (12-15k miles) are nothing special on oil change recommendations. Considering closer distances in Europe (short trips) and worse roads the road conditions closely approximate "severe" schedule, so it seems to me it is others that are more disingenuous than BMW. I find it hard to believe that same (similar) engines cross the Ocean, drive on better quality roads and longer distances (per trip) and suddenly need more attention? If anything they should need less attention, except those driven in trully extreme conditions (some rural areas in harsh climates/other environmental exposure).
To me those short inteval "recommendations" are a scheme to support their dealer network to make owners to come more often so there are more opportunities to "find" some work. It would be an outrage if customer showed up only once a year - dealers would go broke. With long tradition of mineral oil changes in 3 mo/3K mile changes it is easy to scare owners to think that the modern cars with modern oils still need much more attention than they really need.
If I wanted to give manufacturers benefit of the doubt (no conspiracy), the tighter recommendation may also be a function of Americans being more litigous (my car broke, you Mr. Honda/Lexus or what not should pay for it) and perhaps mineral oil still lingering in too many garages, including dealers', which means there is not enough confidence mechanics (and owners) will actually follow oil grade quality standards. Proper oil grade basically means no $19.99-$29.99 oil change (5 quarts of proper oil may cost $50 or even more just for material), which would put many shops out of business.
In other words - there are too many parties fully invested in 3K/3mo scheme. It was something they drove into drivers' minds for decades. Now they'd have to abandon it and tell people come (much) less frequently, but leave more money each visit. No way.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I thought of that when I posted. There must be an opening through which oil is added... unless it gets there by divine inspiration or divine transpiration somehow.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Z-9&Ca- tegory_Code=Zaino
Every once in awhile, I'll try something else that claims to be the latest, greatest. I always come back to Zaino.
Only guys like us that do our own work can appreciate what you saw when you did the oil change for your friend.
I told the tale about the first oil change for the Genny (post 48743 and there were others on another Edmunds forum) that was done by the same mega dealer that I had my problem with on the XG350. At the time, he had a “lube center” but it is now his Subie service center. From start to finish this clown, (calling him a grease monkey would be a compliment for this inept sorry [non-permissible content removed] excuse for an “oil changer”), did everything wrong. If I wasn’t there watching him I would have been better off.
As I’ve said before I don’t leave the parking lot after a PA state inspection or after buying tires without checking all 20 lug nuts if I didn’t see them firsthand use a torque wrench that I questioned the torque setting of before it was used. I get crazy stares but that’s the way I do it because it’s my car.
I’m pretty sure that I told my nightmare story about a stripped oil plug, from another vehicle that had to be lying in the pit, which was used on my car during an oil change at a Jiffy Lube when we lived in SC. In a way it wasn’t my fault because we were still living in our apartment waiting for our house to be built when it was time for an oil change. Believe it or not but even with the stripped plug it didn’t leak a drop of oil nor did it ruin the threads in the oil pan. The car gods had to be with me that day. You can only get away with this so many times when you turn your car over to someone to do even simple work so I try my best not to let that happen.
I keep that stripped oil plug on my dresser to this day and this happened in August 1992. Am I really that traumatized about this that I can still remember the date when this happened? Yes I am. Every now and then Mrs. j asks when I’m going to put it where it belongs (let’s not go there) because she is tired of moving it when she dusts. I keep telling her, “It’s right where it belongs. In front of me, everyday, as a constant reminder of what happens when I let someone touch my car”.
Like I said, only DIYers can appreciate any of this.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Many models produced from 2007 have fixed service intervals. Services alternate from A to B and occur every 15,500 miles or after one year, whichever comes sooner.
I tried the same with Jaguar and Lexus and was unsuccessful. Ford shows once a year but does not say what mileage.
Both Ford and MB case, the cars go over the Ocean and suddenly need shorter intervals here (MB needs 12K miles, Ford needs 6 months).
QED
2018 430i Gran Coupe
AGAIN - another piece of evidence that BMW's 15k miles schedule is nothing special. It was not made to save money on one less service visit, rather it is a global policy and trend of reducing maintenance on machinery that is very strong overseas, but somehow has hard time to take off in US (the approach of using high-grade materials, but less frequently). It may also be part of the "green agenda", where fewer maintenance visits also reduces pollution from hazardous waste. Other brands/manufacturers do the same over there (for same/similar machines), but somehow claim that their US-market vehicles are so fragile (or US driving conditions are so much worse) that they need much more attention than those sold in UK. I say booooguuuuus.
I thought for long time that modern cars can go on same oil (especially one of high quality) for quite a while, it is the US service industry that those manufacturers caved to. Fewer visits, less opportunity to do "flushes", "inspections", fewer opportunities to find something "wrong" (or at least a "concern"). It is also very difficult to prove negative. There will be milions of people claiming that their cars run so well because of those frequent oil changes - how do you prove that if they had not done that, the results would have been the same? It is impossible.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
My problem is that I have a 2004 BMW X3 that posts very good wear metal numbers but has an almost totally depleted additive package by 9000-10000 miles- regardless of the oil used- LL-01, HDEO, you name it. I usually keep cars for at least 7-10 years so yes, the thought of running that oil for another 5000-10000 miles does worry me.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
so that seemed perfectly reasonable to me. If the RDX suddenly is calling for 2x that, I will get it done more often!
the ody also ran Dino oil. Not sure if the Acura is synthetic (will have to check the manual). If so, I suppose it could go longer.
My Volvo is going in tomorrow for an oil change (about 6K since I bought it, but I don't know what the Acura dealer I bought it from put in when they (supposedly) changed the oil before putting on the lot)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The right question to ask would be statistics of same age/mileage engine failures before and after the new recommendation, especially at higher mileage (100K+). I don't know the answer, but CR seem to like recent BMW a bit more than they did 10 years ago. 10 years ago hardly any model was on their recommended list due to reliability concerns (below average), even if they actually liked the car, today most of their models are "recommended", even if with just "average" reliability score (and general "average" of all vehicle improved). It's been 8+ years now, so if that was a real problem, we should see those abandoned BMWs on roadside or flatbed trucks with blown engines, if this recommendation was such a terrible problem.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Back in the '70s it was 4 months/4000 miles, by the time BMW switched to synthetic oil the SIA was calling for an oil change every year or @8000 miles. Once BMW started paying for service every fluid became a "lifetime fill"- including coolant.
Do you know of any other manufacturer that NEVER calls for a coolant change?
Also note that BMW's "lifetime" fluids are in almost every case the same fluid used when BMW called for fluid changes based on time/mileage.
That said, I don't doubt that any BMW that follows the factory regimen will make it to 100,000 miles- and that's all BMW cares about. They now have legions of BMW "wearers" who pee their pants at the thought of owning a BMW out of warranty and breathe a sigh of relief that they no longer have to pop the hood and look for a dipstick- they think trailing throttle oversteer is a band that used to open for Journey. And that's just the way the suits like it...
Meh.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Reminds me of those old Lincoln commercials where the jeweler cuts the stone in the backseat as the car jostles over rough, pothole covered streets to demonstrate how smooth the suspension was. Even better was the Saturday Night Live take-off with the Rabbi circumcising the baby in the back. It must have been the second or third year of SNL and I had just flipped over to the station that carried it. Having never seen SNL I was stunned to see this very authentic looking car commercial for what looked like a real car. I think my jaw must have dropped before I finally realized it was a parody.
I'm drinking that awful--and seemingly endless drink given the night before having a colonoscopy. I can tell you if I had to be in a car right now I'd want the smoothest air cushioned ride possible. For those of you that have gone through this I salute you as I'm about have way through the "jug" and it seems to keep refilling itself.
Gogiboy
I remember that skit, 'Perfect'.
Gogi, I chose grape as my flavor. By the end of the "jug" I wished I had chosen any flavor besides grape. Tomorrow they'll give you a tiny pill a half hour before your exam. It really works. It will seem like minutes later it will be over. I hope your results will be just like mine. No problems.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I still insist that if you really want the feel of the road you should try my normal mode of transport, a bicycle. On 100-120 narrow psi tires affixed to an oversized aluminum or steel frame you will feel every imperfection no matter how slight. Of course, many bikes including most off road bike now come with front, even full suspension, but that does add weight, which makes the effort that much more taxing.
To me one of the greatest pleasures is a freshly repaved road. That, and the wind always at my back.
Gogiboy
I think you made some excellent points. In Europe, oil and gas cost 2 or 3X as much, so drivers won't be as quick to change oil.
When we bought the Audi we got an oil and maintenace package that cost $70 for $1500 worth of work. The sales manager said they did that so you would come back to the dealer for service....keeps their shop busy. So, I agree, other manufacturers make oil changes more often so clients will spend more for oil changes.
I appreciate your comments, they really confirm some of my thoughts, and introduce even more good thoughts about the topic of the frequency of oil changes.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes, there is a cap right near the front of the engine, easy to get at, that you just unscrew and then add your oil. But, even cars that had dipsticks had a separate place to add the oil.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
lol....because North Americans like to spoil their cars. Charge what the customer will pay. Dealers make more profit on their garage than they do on selling the car, may as well nail them for oil changes.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I bought a bottle of BMW oil for $10 (probably $8 U.S.) for 1 litre (I believe), I unsrewed the top, opened the oil cap in the engine (clearly marked, right at the front of the engine, pretty wide so it won't spill), and I poured the oil in.
Started the engine and checked the oil on the monitor...showed it was full on the graph.
No special turkey baster needed.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That question wouldn't tell you a lot. It is ridiculous to think BMW is trying to save money by lengthening the frequency of oil changes by one free oil change (which is basically at cost since they provide the oil) just to save a few bucks. Would they risk their reputation, have cars seizing up all over the country, just to save $50? And, they will lose it any way because you won't change oil as often when the warranty is over. It sounds logical, but that's a real stretch if you really think about it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes, Subaru also has lifetime coolant. They introduced it on their 2008 WRX/STI line, later included all other models. When you dig deeper, it is recommended to be changed at something like 120 or 150 thousand miles (don't know exact number, but it is beyond standard maintenance tables).
Toyota has 100K coolant replacement recommendation - not exactly "lifetime", but quite long, isn't it?
Perhaps there were some advances since 1975, not only in radiator technology, but also in materials ...
2018 430i Gran Coupe