Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

Oh, you certainly would!

Oddly while you were dreaming of Obama and such I was having a nice, friendly conversation with Chris Christie which is not something I would likely do awake.

I have t go up to Sloan for tests and appointments both Monday and Tuesday of next week. Unfortunately Hope Lodge won't do just an overnight. I may have to spring for a night in a hotel. Not a desirable thing in NYC - unless you like $400 a night. If I spent that much on a hotel for the night I couldn't sleep!

In better news, my alma mater, Rutgers, is joining the Big Ten! Great news. Won't start until 2014.

abacomike

Can your brother keep your father for a couple of days each month? Probably not practical. You need some "Mike time". Try to be good to yourself.

Unfortunately, my brother wants no part of that - taking care of his Dad. He calls my Dad 2 or 3 times a week and that's it. He also lives 310 miles away, so that won't work either.

My brother is just too caught up in his own life - cruises, trips to Europe, to California, to Hawaii, etc. He is extremely wealthy, but never offers to come down here for a week or so in order for me to go to California to see my kids and grandsons. He tells me to hire someone to come in and take care of him but my Dad won't have anyone else in the house. When I said we could split the cost of a caretaker, he said to just put him in a home or care facility. He won't send me a nickel! That's been his take on things. When my mom was sick and dying, he never once came down here to see her or help my Dad. I flew in from California 8 times in 4 months to help out, but not him - and he was only a 1 hour flight from here. He is very into himself, but not anyone else. 3 wives - that tells you something!

nyccarguy

Mike

It is unfortunate that your brother doesn't do more to help care for your Dad, but at least he DOES call 2 - 3 times per week. On the flip side of the coin, YOU do NEED to spend time with your children and grandsons.

Like I said yesterday, YOU are doing the right thing by your Dad. Keep up the fantastic work.

We're very lucky. My Grandma is 95 and still lives alone in her house. I think my parents just convinced her about 6 months to a year ago to have someone come to the house at night to cook dinner and clean up for her. My Dad took the car away about 3 years ago. He should have done it when she was 90. She fell backwards and broke her hip while trying to pull the garbage can up over the curb. The doctor was amazed at how her body healed and she DID NOT require surgery. While she was in the rehab facility, my Dad literally took the car away. She asked about it when she got home & he told her NO MORE DRIVING. She still hasn't forgiven him for that.

3 wives huh? Assuming you met them all, did they resemble each other? I had a customer who was married 5 times. All of his wives were Dominican, all born in December. He said if you lined all 5 of them up next to each other, they could pass for sisters.

oldfarmer50

"...the importance of dream interpretation..."

Sorry for being my normal contrarian self but as a former mental health professional (with fancy letters after my name) I have to disagree a bit. While a RECURRENT dream can give clues to an underlying issues you really can't interpret much from a single dream.

I've personally seen phony therapists do a lot of damage drawing conclusions from dreams. That includes some "recovered memories" of childhood abuse that never happened.

Dream interpretation can be PART of an effective therapy but alone isn't much better than a horoscope.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

driver100

Assuming you met them all, did they resemble each other? I had a customer who was married 5 times.

I have a friend and including his 3 wives and a few girlfriends, their names all ended with "ah", as in Brenda, Maria, Ursula, Debra, Roberta, Sandra.

Maybe there is something to that theory.

graphicguy

Sad to hear of others' experiences with loved ones. Unfortunately, that seems a part of life. It never ceases to amaze me however how wonderful Hospice facilities and those who run them are. They were outstanding during my late Mother's last weeks. And, they didn't ask for a dime (although I did make a nice donation to them). Then, you look at facilities, either assisted living, or full nursing homes, who charge an arm and a leg, for what amounts to the least amount of care they can get away with, and wonder what they do with all the money they take in.

Both my late Father and Mother eventually went into what I had hoped was a nice assisted living facility. Doesn't seem to matter how much you pay. Those facilities aren't really concerned about their residents' well being. They do care about cutting corners and hiring barely qualified help.

Off the soap box......

OldFarmer....thanks for the little insight for mental health diagnosis. While I'm not qualified to even offer the slightest advice, I've always thought that some with suppressed "dreams/experiences" seemed like more of an effort to be dramatically find an excuse for odd/poor behavior. As you say...."sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Boy, did my Father love the chrome wheel moldings and padded vinyl roofs. Not my cup of tea, but.....

I remember the last Lincoln he bought actually had the gold package. Craig....what did you call that? Stylin'? Indeed!

Kirstie, I relate to the simple things, as you point out. I get more excited seeing the grass freshly mowed (and it wasn't me who mowed it), or the garage swept out, than I do having a party thrown for me.

As far as surprise parties, not much of a fan. Last one I had was when I was still married. It was an alleged birthday party. Should have been a indication of what was to come. But, she invited people I didn't much care for....mostly her friends (not mine) and her family (not mine).

In light of that, I do remember since it was my birthday, and I really didn't care much for the company, I did the only thing I thought was reasonable. That was the very last time I drank Jack Daniels. :sick:

driver100

Is it just me, or are people really that crazy. I saw on the news people camped out at Best Buy since Sunday to be the first ones in the store on Thursday evening.

Does this make any sense? Isn't your time worth more than a few bucks? Do these people have a life? Where do they work so they can give up 4 days of their life to buy an electronic device?

Is the world going mad or is it just me :sick: :confuse:

tjc78

Driver,

I can't agree more. I think the whole black Friday thing is out of control. Yes, you can save a buck but I could never camp out to spend my money.

Richard,
I think I will post up a few pics once I get the car to my house and all cleaned up. I just sold the Wife's Elantra (to the first person who looked at it) and will be changing the Grand Marq to my name tonight at the DMV.

GG,
I love Jack D but sometimes it just doesn't end well. LOL :shades:

Suprise parties aren't my thing either. My Wife (GF then) got me once. She said it was just a "few" people coming and it was the whole group of about 50 people. It was a nice time, but felt the house/yard (picnic) wasn't prepared for a big event like that.

Mike,
I'll just add in that how you are helping out your Dad is commendable.

sterlingdog

There is always one in the family who has to shoulder the responsibility. I found that out quickly enough with my mother. My sister's answer was to just throw money at the problem, and she had plenty to throw with she and her husband being doctors. Money and telephone calls don't equate to changing diapers and feeding a person by hand. You will reach a point when you will have to make some tough decisions---home health care, nursing facility, etc. You have children and grandchildren. They deserve a place in your life also. I know it's tough. Hang in there.

Richard

sterlingdog

I certainly respect your opinions, not only about dreams but other topics as well. I do agree with you that most dreams don't hold significance. I agree that the recurrent dreams can give clues to an underlying issue.

Richard

sterlingdog

"...I was having a nice, friendly conversation with Chris Christie..."

That wasn't a dream; that was a nightmare!

Richard

sterlingdog

I'm with you on that one. There is no material possession that I would ever want that would require camping out in front of a store! Yes, people are crazy.

Richard

isellhondas

A "classic" look??

Ah...OK....whatever floats your boat!

oldfarmer50

"...you need some Mike time..."

I was thinking the same thing. I believe there are "adult day care" facilities for just that purpose where an impaired loved one can be watched for short time periods and return home in the evening giving the care giver a break.

oldfarmer50

"...as you say..."

I didn't say that, Sigmund Freud did.

I dream about buying cars like this:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/3380074611.html

Am I crazy?

abacomike

I was thinking the same thing. I believe there are "adult day care" facilities for just that purpose where an impaired loved one can be watched for short time periods and return home in the evening giving the care giver a break.

During the day, if I want to go out, there is no problem. It's trying to get away for several days that is the problem. I can't trust him alone in the house for more than 8-10 hours. I have to cook dinner for him and make sure he takes his medications.

He refuses to have anyone in the house to care for him, with no exceptions. So if I wanted to go to Palm Springs to see the kids and grandchildren, it would be impossible.

abacomike

The parts came in this morning (6 injectors and 2 fuel pumps). When I spoke to them about 2 hours ago, they were working on it. They didn't know if they would finish it by this evening, so I told them if the could have it finished by 10:00 AM tomorrow morning, I would leave for Jacksonville right from the dealership (since Delray is 18 miles north of me).

I'll know more by this evening.

roadburner

It is unfortunate that your brother doesn't do more to help care for your Dad

I am so glad that I'm an only child; I think that for every person I know that gets along great with their sibling(s) I know 99 others who have a brother or sister who is either crazy, lazy, selfish,or a criminal- or all of the above. Fortunately, my son will just have to deal with his crazy parents...

stickguy

I have 2 sisters. 1 of each!

tjc78

My (step)brothers are great. Their wives......... no comment!

abacomike

NOT READY! They are going to give me a GLK350 tomorrow morning. Luckily, my iPhone has a GPS in it since their loaners do not. I printed up step by step directions from mapquest since it gets tricky once I'm east of I-95 south of Jacksonville. He's on the beach (Ponte Vedra) so there are quite a few turns to get to his house.

nyccarguy: he is my only sibling - an identical twin brother. He has his own life - what can I say!

driver100

I dream about buying cars like this:

I for one, don't think you are crazy....but, then again, what do I know?

No, really, a luxury car with 63K miles for $2000.

Brandon is about 20 minutes away. If I hadn't bought the Passat I would have scooped it up (except my wife won't want to drive it, so I guess I better not).

driver100

the could have it finished by 10:00 AM tomorrow morning, I would leave for Jacksonville right from the dealership

Let us know how you like driving a GLK.....I have a feeling that is what you will be driving.

driver100

NOT READY! They are going to give me a GLK350 tomorrow morning.

I hadn't read this far ahead, but, I was pretty sure they weren't going to rush this repair. They sure don't want to mess it up, and make it more aggravating for you. Just enjoy testing out another car, you may even get to like it. There are some advantages possibly, lots of room inside, you are up high, and it is more compact on the outside.

I am thoroughly enjoying driving the Passat. I have come to the realization that VW knows how to make cars that are very driveable. The Audi is a little more refined, but, you know these were cars designed by people who love cars and driving.

oldfarmer50

"...it would be impossible..."

That is indeed a frustrating situation.

When my father went into his dementia we had the opposite problem. He was always a gregarious man and as he went down hill he would let ANYONE in the house. Once unknown to me he let a scooter salesman fast talk him into paying $5000 for a machine he could have gotten free from Medicare. My brother who lived with them for years split as soon as my father and mother started needing help leaving it mainly up to me. Personally, it wasn't the helping that got to me it was the emotional toll of the parent-child role reversal and the frustration of not being able to do anything to halt the decline of two formerly vibrant people.

I don't know what to suggest except to somehow gradually introduce a caregiver when you are there too. Maybe your father would come to accept the presence of your "friend" who initially comes with you and hangs out with the two of you offering to do little "chores" and such. Gradually your father might feel comfortable with this friend of your helping more and more until dad would accept his/her help without you being there.

Good luck my friend.

abacomike

Gradually your father might feel comfortable with this friend of your helping more and more until dad would accept his/her help without you being there.

I wish it was that easy. He trusts no one except his sons, and I even wonder about that. I have signatory rights on his checking accounts, but none of his other accounts. I've tried to make him understand that I would have to get an attorney to gain access to his accounts if I need to withdraw funds, but he is adamant about not doing that. Everything is "payable on death" to me and my brother, which is foolish. But I just can't get him to bend.

He keeps about $50,000 on checking, which I insist upon since I can't access his other accounts. Maybe I can get my brother to convince him to change the accounts to joint accounts. I think he trusts my brother more than me because he is a CPA.

But, to get back to people in the house, whenever the cleaning people come to clean the house, he accuses them of stealing things like toilet paper, paper towels, live plants on the terrace, candy, soda, to name a few. Do you see what I'm trying to communicate - he trusts no one!

We are leaving tomorrow morning and will be away 2 nights. You should see what he's packing - enough for a month. But there is no use on fighting with him because I always lose the argument.

I always try to put myself into his body and imagine what it must be like to hardly see, hardly hear, and not remember much. That is how I get from day to day without leaving him to fend by himself. He can't help it - it's not his fault - it's the dementia.

But thanks for the good luck wishes - it's not easy as you and others here like Richard a nyccarguy, etc.

kevinc5

I have a question for experienced salespersons. Maybe ethics....maybe just good manners.

I'm considering purchasing or leasing a luxury import in the $50,000+ range. The car I want is a limited production model in the product line. Dealer A has one very close to my specs and I could certainly live with it. I test drove it with the salesperson who suggested leasing. A lease would work out well for me. I like the salesperson and I have a history at the dealership. The guy wants me to sign the paperwork this weekend, or early next week.

I just found another car of the same make and model at Dealer B. Good color and options which would be more practical for me. In the end, I might prefer that car. Should I ask the sales guy at Dealer A to try to trade for the second car or should I go to Dealer B and try to work the best deal, cutting A out of the sale? Due to incentives, etc. I think the dealers shouldn't be too far apart on price. I also know a sales guy at B.

My inclination is to try to work with A. If they can't get the car, go to B.

Am I correct?

tjc78

If you haven't gone to "B" yet and talked with anyone then let "A" handle the sale. Also, why don't you just tell "A" exactly what you want and have them find it. If it exists within a certain radius they will do their best to get it for you. I'm not 100% certain on this, but if A and B are very close competing dealers they may not play nice and trade cars.

In the end it's your money and if the car you absolutely want is at "B" and "A" can't get you what you want I think you should try and make a deal at "B". There is no reason for regret on a 50k+ purchase.

tjc78

Mike,
I'm a little familar with elder care and such. If your Dad has significant assets (cash, stocks etc) it is best to get it out of his name. If you need to put him in a nursing home, etc they will take it all.

My Stepfather was care giver for his eldery (never married) Aunt. The nursing homes took well over 750K of her savings, and her home. If she had nothing the state would have payed. To make matters worse, once the money ran out the facility she was in could "no longer care for her properly" so she had to go to another facilty that wasn't as nice.

They will look back a certain number of years, but IMHO it is best to consult an elder care lawyer to see what the best options are.

bwia

I always try to put myself into his body and imagine what it must be like to hardly see, hardly hear, and not remember much.

Mike, that's the right attitude. Living longer is an ideal but as one ages, the quality of life deteriorates and in some cases very rapidly. As the caregiver to your dad, simply accept it. Life has challenges and no challenge is too great to overcome. Thank God your dad can still move around and even enjoy your cooking...one day you will look back on it as one of the most memorable times of your life.

I don't know if they have these facilities close to where you live, but in Boston there are facilities where old folks gather and mingle. As someone mentioned earlier, it is sort of an adult day care. Some of these facilities provide live entertainment and simple arts and crafts projects to keep them busy.

As the old proverb says: once a man, twice a child. Your dad is a proud man and he too feels your pain but unfortunately he cannot express it.

imidazol97

>750K of her savings, and her home. If she had nothing the state would have payed.

...the state TAXPAYERS would have paid.

tjc78

Agreed. But this woman worked from 18 until she was 70 years old, and paid PLENTY of taxes in her lifetime.

kevinc5

Thanks for your input. A wants the sale and I'm sure will try to find a deal that works. The dealers are about 15 miles apart and I assume, very competitive. To add to the intrigue, I have another sales rep for a competing make looking for a car that is also apparently tough to find. Of cpourse, none of these cars are equipped exactly as I would like. If it weren't for a 3 month wait for factory order I'd go that route.

Everyone will be back to work Saturday. I'll let it play out. Cue the Benny Hill music.

roadburner

I'd order it; life's too short not to get EXACTLY what you want...

tjc78

Keep us posted! RB does have a point, in the end if you can't find what you want ordering may be the best bet.

Is your current ride leased? If so you may be able to extend it a few months while waiting for the new car.

driver100

. If it weren't for a 3 month wait for factory order I'd go that route.

Do you want to tell us what the car is you are looking at? I know, there are certain situations when you can't wait for a car that is special ordered. But, it sure is nice to get exactly what you want.

That being said, how come you don't want to wait 3 months? We bought 3 cars this year and they were all ordered. If I am going to drive a car for 4 or more years I want it to be exactly the way I want it, but, that's just me.

isellhondas

It sounds like you are trying to do the right thing and I respect that.

If Dealer B has the slightest idea that Dealer A is trying to sell you that same car there is NO WAY they would allow a dealer trade.

Classic case of a salesperson doing most of the work only to lose out on a sale but that's just part of the business.

graphicguy

kevinc....I'm with isellhondas on this. Go with the dealer/salesperson you'd like most to do business with. But first, decide which car/model/brand you want to buy. Nothing wrong with shopping similar brands/models. But, make your life easier by deciding what you want, first.

Just a quick comment on a particular long term thorn in my side....every once in awhile I do a quick calculation on the amount of taxes I've paid in my lifetime up until this point in my life. I figure even if I took advantage of every social and welfare program our great country offers, from now until the estimated end of my life, I would still be owed several hundreds of thousands of dollars to get anywhere close to even.

If and when I ever have to claim any sort of funds from my country, I won't feel even remotely bad about doing so.

Again, I love this country. I don't want to live anywhere else. However, I also know the cost involved in living here. And, it's not cheap, nor is it ever fair. When it comes time to get just a fraction of my tax dollars back, paid over a lot of different presidential regimes, I will do so, and will be proud about it.

No one has to pay for me. I've already paid my way....many, many times over (and continue to do so).

imidazol97

The taxes paid for social security by the typical workers is far below what they receive in checks for the average lifespan after retirement. There is probably newer data, but 10 years ago or more, the average worker used up what they had paid into soc sec in 2 or 3 years of collecting checks. The pay in dollars in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s was much lower than in today's dollars.

Most people understand that today's workers are funding today's retirees with the withheld taxes. It's a Ponzii scheme. That's why the government fiscal cliff that wasn't implemented after Simpson-Bowles is so dreadfully dangerous. The amount paid out in medicare and social security is a huge part of the government income. Reducing the deficit spending so popular by elected officials requires cuts to those programs, no matter how Santa Claus tries to spin the truth. Our economy growth at 1% or 2% instead of 3, 4, or 5% won't grow our way into being able to handle those mandated programs along with all the other Christmas presents being gifted out by elected people to themselves and to their constituencies.

I also paid taxes for years and I still pay taxes.

bwia

And, it's not cheap, nor is it ever fair. When it comes time to get just a fraction of my tax dollars back, paid over a lot of different presidential regimes..

You're right, it is not fair. Because you get to deduct those taxes off your income. In effect, somebody else is subsidizing your extravagant lifestyle. And imidazol97 is also correct; a retiree gets back much more than they pay into medicare and social security. Furthermore, your employer contributes 7.65% of your pay to medicare and social security.

If you wish to bring this to its ultimate conclusion--in order for the employer make these payroll contributions on your behalf they have to overcharged their customers for the sale of their goods and services. Again, we the taxpayers are subsidizing you by paying bloated prices.

In short, taxes are what we pay for a civil, moral and socially responsible society. We may not necesarily like it but it is right thing to do.

tjc78

I also paid taxes for years and I still pay taxes.

Understood and all good points.

If you have read GG's post above, he has said it better than me. I totally agree with what he wrote.

nyccarguy

You won't get a Sales Story out of me until the Summer of 2014 when the lease is up on my BMW. I've been enlisted by a friend of my wife's to help her with her new car purchase. She's currently driving a 2003 VW GTI 1.8T with 80,000 miles on the odometer. Between maintenance & the fact that VW's don't age gracefully, she's ready for a new ride. She's decided that she wants to lease a 2013 VW Tiguan SE w/ 4Motion, Sunroof, & Navigation. MSRP including destination is $33,880.

I've done my research. VW's top tier credit money factor is currently .0003 (0.72%). For a 36 month/10K mile per year lease, VW credit says the car's residual value is 59%.

Qbrozen pegs her car's auction value at between $3000 - $3500 for a trade-in.
VWs sell for invoice (or maybe a bit less).

I'll let you guys know how I do.

tjc78

The lease #s look great to start, with a super low MF and a decent residual.

I bet with a little work you could get this for around $350-360/month with taxes and just first payment out of pocket.

explorerx4

If you do trade her car in on a lease, you can walk away with some of that trade in value.
Have her put it in the bank and she will have some money to put down on the next vehicle in 3 years.

nyccarguy

It's actually looking like a little bit more than that. There's not a big spread on VWs as far as invoice vs. sticker goes. I believe VW waves the 1st payment as part of their "sign, then drive" sales event. No 1st month, No Security. Just a $650 bank fee which at 0.72% interest, I just added to the capitalized cost of the lease.

tjc78

OK, didn't know about the $650 fee and just used a quick 31K as cap cost.

It looks like I got a little too greedy!

kevinc5

I haven't spoken to anyone at Dealer B. I saw the car on thier web site after Dealer A left on a Thanksgiving break. We'll sort it out this weekend.

Also, I'm beginning to think Dealer A's initial price quote was high. I might have to go to B just to get a better price.

dino001

I just got PO'd beyond belief. This BMW dealer from Ocala - I sent them ask for info request in June 2011. Eighteen months later I keep getting robocalls from them. Unbelievable. I called them a month ago or so and asked to be removed from the list, yet just got one today.

This time I wrote to ther GM a fiery email saying if you don't stop, I'll complain to BMW of NA and explore legal options.

You know, I wouldn't mind a personal call a few months ago, so I have a chance to say Thanks, but no thanks, maybe next time, but robocalls are sure way to lose my business. Just can't stand that.

bwia

I am having the same issue with both emails and phone calls. A couple of months ago, on the Toyota website, I made an inquire about the 2013 Avalon.

Big mistake. I gave them my personal information hoping that they would send me a brochure and an invitation for a text drive.

What I got instead was a barrage of emails and phone calls from six different salesmen at the same dealership. Certainly, this cannot be a mistake. Most dealerships have an Internet sales department and I expected to receive an email or two from them. But messages from six different greedy sales people? That's outrageous! And to top it all off they want to sell me a 2012 model even though I emphatically told them I was interested only in 2013, not the dowdy 2012 Avalon.

I know times are hard but excessive sales pressure makes their situation worse than it aught to be.

driver100

Also, I'm beginning to think Dealer A's initial price quote was high. I might have to go to B just to get a better price.

That's easy then. Just go to Dealer A, don't mention Dealer B at all....tell Dealer A what you are willing to pay for the car.

I basically did that with the car we just bought 2 weeks ago. They gave me all kinds of prices, saying people pay full MSRP for Passats. I checked the Edmunds fair value price, Basically said I was tired of going in circles....this is the amount I will pay here and now, or I will have to go elsewhere. She checked with her manager, said it wasn't easy but got it approved and I was set. I think they realize you aren't fooling around, you know what the real value is....and unless they just don't have to move a car, they would rather make than lose a sale.

btw, at this point I wouldn't have too many problems with going to Dealer B if they don't comply, they aren't looking out for your interests. You have been fair and reasonable, it's up to them to be the same.

The edmunds price is what the average person pays, so if you want a fair price where the dealer won't get skinned, and if you are ok with that, then why not just tell the dealer what you will pay?

Still wondering what the mystery car is.