Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jipster

The media has horrified us to the point that we had no choice. As we all know, the media is always correct and would never dramatize any world event or spread any propaganda. Also, the lobbyists and the drug companies would never try to sway media attention.

Good points richard. Wasn't the Swine Flu a few years ago suppose to destroy all of humanity? And Al Gore sure is riding the Global Warming "tradgedy" all the way to the bank. Same thing with drug companies. Not saying not to get a flu shot, it's an individual choice based on current/past health. Just saying when you're in a business, you're in a business to make money. And you're going to market your business in such a way to maximise profits. It's the American way! :sick:

abacomike

No, no. My question was why A/C no longer impairs gas mileage so much

If I am not mistaken, aren't some of the newer models coming with "electronic" airconditioning compressors now, sort of like power steering? If I am correct, and they have done away with a compressor fan belt, that would reduce the impact of airconditioning on fuel economy. If I am incorrect, I do know that with the many clutches now on the compressor, the compressor does not run as frequently, but a pump keeps the coolant running through the system.

Anyone else have any info on this?

abacomike

I think this is more of a marketing ploy...bmw has been using it for awhile. Last years 3 series has 3 choices, sport, classic and prestige. I would say 80% of the buyers will opt for sport version, which will cost them about $1500 before they get into options.

There is no additional cost to opt for the sport package. Both the Luxury and Sport Models are the exact same price as are the options and packages. But the sport defniitely looks nice with the overhaul of the front end.

abacomike

NEWSFLASH…it’s already been decided

*jmonroe, in this case, you are incorrect. It has not been decided. There are several variables that would determine if I buy a new one or not! These variables are:

*What is he giving me for my car in actual cash value?
*Will MBFS be offering a special $2000 incentive to current customer?
*Will USAA be offering $2000 below invoice on the new Mercedes?
*Will I be able to use my $1000 certificate from Mercedes Benz Club in conjuction with the other incentives?

In other words, if I can get the new car for about $5000 under invoice and I can get $52,000 for my 2013 (MSRP was $65,000), it's a done deal. If not, I keep the 2013 for another year or two.

But if you guys want start a pool on whether or not I get the new one, and when, I'll keep you guys updated on the manufacture, transportation and dealership arrival data.

This is not a done deal! But what is nice is that the dealership is ordering a car for me just the way I want it with no strings attached.

driver100

No, no. My question was why A/C no longer impairs gas mileage so much.

Sorry, I am a busy man...I guess I read your question too fast.

I suppose there are fewer pullies and belts and mice to feed these days. :shades:

isellhondas

A/C never really affected gas mileage as much as a lot of people thought it did.

However, in the "old days" the A/C compressors were big and heavy and when they kicked in they did produce quite a bit of drag.

Modern compressors are much smaller and efficient.

I remember I once bought a used 1970 VW Beetle that the previous owner had the VW dealer install aftermarket A/C in. In those days that was the only way you could get A/C since the factory (for good reason) didn't offer it.

Now, that was a real joke! When I would go down the freeway at 65 MPH everytime the compressor cycled the VW would either speed up or slow down.

My German born mechanic, Klaus thought it nuts that anyone would abuse that tiny engine by installing A/C!

At te time we lived by the ocean in So. Calif so I didn't use it much.

driver100

Wasn't the Swine Flu a few years ago suppose to destroy all of humanity?

Once again, it is good to question things....and then make the best decision you can. Not everything is a con(spiracy).

I happen to take statin drugs, Crestor, I do question it, but it really has reduced my cholestrol level and many doctors are taking it...it is a miracle drug.

My mother lived to be 94. I know she lived an extra 15 or 20 years because of modern medicine.

Yes, drug companies are in it for profit, but they have to produce too or people won't take them. That is the free enterprise system at it's best, the search for miracle drugs, because of the profits that a company can make.

Good to question...but, there is a point when you have to weigh the evidence.

driver100

Both the Luxury and Sport Models are the exact same price as are the options and packages

I am surprised...because bmw just uses the options as a money maker. I suppose Mercedes buyers may go for the classic version more often, that is why most prefer Mercedes in the first place....the luxurious interior.

Bmw tends to be more utilitarian inside. Will the MB E Class Sport model have regular tires or will you have to replace them every 15K miles?

tjc78

However, in the "old days" the A/C compressors were big and heavy and when they kicked in they did produce quite a bit of drag.

My 79 Continental had one of those monster A/C compressors. It had to be 6-7" in diameter and 10-12" long. You could feel it kick in while driving even with the monster V8.

1970 VW Beetle that the previous owner had the VW dealer install aftermarket A/C in.

My mother had a Beetle of similar vintage with A/C. It also had the clutchless manual transmission. I guess that combo would be fairly rare today.

verdugo

And Al Gore sure is riding the Global Warming "tragedy" all the way to the bank.

Cracked me up that Al Gore sold his TV channel to Al Jazeera ... which is funded by OIL money.

I guess when he said he was interested in green things, he was talking about money, not recyclyng.

andres3

may well be smaller and more efficient than the older one's but the efficiency is not making up for the lack of size. They are not performing as well as I remember older AC's performing. Perhaps it is because we are more worried about the ozone than an AC that actually works when it's really hot out.

I've noticed in both recent model Honda's and Audi's that they would all be shamed by the effectiveness of the old Dodge Neon's AC (when it worked; which was about 3 year and 36K mile lifespan of a compressor; planned obsolescence at it's best).

Maybe they are just undersized and they need to bring back the big old compressors of the past.

AC quality has gone down hill in automobiles from what I've seen. Can cool when it's warm, but not when it's hot.

tjc78

I'll agree that the newer systems aren't as cold as the older ones, but I"ve never had a recent car that couldn't keep you cool even in 95+ and high humidity.

R134A just isn't as good a product as R12. The older systems dealt much better with under/over charging than the new ones. In many cases with modern R134 systems a 1/4lb discrepancy in the amount of charge can totally change system performance.

isellhondas

A beetle with A/C and Autostick! What a gutless wonder that must have been!

stickguy

Craig, I know that on my Accord ('05 4 cyl stick) when I put the AC on, it suck the guts out of it at lower speeds. really could feel the difference when I put the AC on (though I always considered that a last resort, emergencies only action!)

isellhondas

Really? I have never noticed that on any of my Hondas and I use my A/C a lot even in the winter to defrost the windows.

There is "some" drag but not enough for me to really notice.

isellhondas

We had a '79 Mark V and I'm thinking it had a GM compressor on it.

Ford never really built a compressor as good as the GM/Fridgdaire units so some Lincolns came equipped that way. Much better compressors!

If you think those were huge, take a look at a pre 1962 GM car with the HUGE Fridgaire compressors! Those were about twice the size of the one on your Lincoln!

Those old GM cars could get down to 36 degrees at the vents!

Than along came R134 and things changed a bit. Modern A/C still gets the job done but nothing compared to a pre 1977 GM car!

tjc78

I can't remember exactly but my Lincoln A/C was in the 30s. I remember that my mechanic said I could chill a beer with it.

The compressor in that was similar to many GM models I've seen. I believe the picture below was it:

imidazol97

I recall in the 70s the mechanic telling me the compressor on the full-sized GM car he was servicing would cool three typical three bedroom homes of that era. The car was on the lift and the water was coming out of the AC evap unit in a stream while he was running it--the day was very warm and humid, but the water was running out. Don't think my Ford was doing that well at cooling.

abacomike

I am surprised...because bmw just uses the options as a money maker. I suppose Mercedes buyers may go for the classic version more often, that is why most prefer Mercedes in the first place....the luxurious interior.

90% of the E350's built are "sport" models. Most do not go for the luxury model. The interiors of both models is almost identical - with a sportier gauge cluster in the sport.

There is no difference in price between a loaded sport and a loaded luxury.

I was reading something on the ordering protocol about tires, but it was confusing. I know the sport has 18" tires and wheels and the luxury has 17" tires and wheels.

oldfarmer50

"...which is funded by oil money..."

If you knew the dishonesty of some "activists" you would be shocked. A good example is the anti-fracking movie 'Promised Land' with Matt Damon. It's production was financed partly with middle-east oil money.

Dang, I hate when you guys suck me into politics. :mad:

oldfarmer50

"...as good as the GM..."

4 out of 5 GM cars I have owned blew the compressor prematurely. The 93 Caddy is still working as far as I know. My Chryslers performed better although the system on my Cirrus developed a slow leak which required annual recharging.

isellhondas

Yep, that's the one!

GM used that from 1962-1976 before they went to a much more compact model. Then Ford picked it up on some of their cars.

Probably the best compressors ever built.

isellhondas

Well, we have owned a LOT of GM cars that used that compressor beginning with my much loved 1962 Impala SS and I have NEVER had a compressor fail.

I did have to replace the front seal on one of my 1965 Rivieras.

The Ford compressors were hard on bearings. Don't have an opinion on the Chryslers but I don't recall replacing any when I ran a large shop.

explorerx4

My Explorers have 2 A/C systems, so 110+ degrees is no problem.
The A/C in my 91 Mustang stopped working sometime last summer.

driver100

It's production was financed partly with middle-east oil money.

Glad you told me that....I was debating about seeing that movie. On the one hand it seemed like a good movie for adults to see, on the other hand it sounded like a preachy movie.

I don't think I want to see a movie that is trying to make a point, which I probably won't agree with anyway....sounds like scaremongering.

nyccarguy

Stick - I'm with you. There is a noticeable performance dip while driving my Prelude with the AC on. I remember reading something way back when that the compressor uses 10 horsepower on average & in the prelude it uses something like 14.

abacomike

This has been one of the warmest winters in history for southeastern Florida. It's been in the 80's every day and only drops to low to mid 70's at night. Our averages for January and February are 75 degrees for our highs and 61 degrees for our lows. We've been averaging a full 10 degrees above normal since the second week of December. We've been running the A/C in the condo all day long and in the car all the time. They say there is no change expected for at least 10 days, if not longer.

If you've thought of coming down here for a winter respite, this would be the year to do it.

explorerx4

I did put the heated seat on for a couple of minutes, but I didn't bother putting the heat on in the Explorer after work. The thermometer readout was at 43 degrees. It was pretty comfy.

cdnpinhead

. . .sounds like scaremongering.

The phrase I've heard more than once is that the left wants this movie to do for natural gas what "The China Syndrome" did for nuclear power. That set the industry back 30 years. Nuclear power is coming back, but the Hollywood liberals (yeah, I know, redundant) certainly did their part in delaying it.

abacomike

I did put the heated seat on for a couple of minutes, but I didn't bother putting the heat on in the Explorer after work. The thermometer readout was at 43 degrees. It was pretty comfy.

Many times (actually more than I care to admit) I've pushed the wrong button on my lower dash and inadvertently put on my heated seats instead of the cooled seats - needless to say, it was not a pretty sight after about 5 minutes as my body became a wet sponge with the temperature outside being 92 degrees. Very embarrassing, to say the least.

tjc78

I hate heated seats. They make me so uncomfortable. My wife thinks they are the greatest thing ever.

driver100

If you've thought of coming down here for a winter respite, this would be the year to do it.

I thought you didn't want too many Snowbirds coming down. :shades:

My tennis group is growing, soon we won't have enough courts, too many baby boomer retired people coming down with too much time on their hands.

The line ups in restaurants are growing longer too.

Tell them about the negative things....hmmmm, like, ah, let me see, oh yeh, the Pythons.

nyccarguy

I love my heated seats. My BMW has 3 settings:

1 - perfectly comfortable (I use this most days when it's below 50 degrees)
2 - Hot (I use this on exceptionally cold mornings when it's in the mid to low 20s & below. Only for maybe 5 minutes, then dial it down to 1)
3 - Roast your [non-permissible content removed] (I never use this setting, except when my 95 year old Grandma who keeps her house temp @ 80 is in the passenger seat)

I love the perfect temperature heated steering wheel too.

driver100

this movie to do for natural gas what "The China Syndrome" did for nuclear power

Interesting observation. That really turns me off, a movie made to push a point of view. They should pay me to go to see it.

driver100

3 - Roast your [non-permissible content removed]

My wife will put her seat on #3 full power and not turn it down.

I end up turning it down, I tell her I don't want her getting 3rd degree burns!

sterlingdog

Mike, you are so right about the weather. Here in North Carolina, we're having 70-74 degree days. In this big old house, it has certainly cut the utility bill way down. It's a great time for our northern friends to make a trip to the sunny South.

A couple of weeks ago, we took a day trip to Wilmington. I was complaining to my wife that I was burning up, and I kept pulling down the temperature. She said that she wasn't uncomfortable at all. I finally realized that I had turned on the driver's heated seat by accident. :sick: Man, those things get hot. Even when it's cold outside, I don't care for them. A good heater is enough for me.

Richard

tjc78

I guess I'm just a hot blooded person. We keep the house heat on 67 and down to 62 at night and I'm still warm sometimes.

The Buick has a heated steering wheel, I didn't even know until I wanted to know what the button on the dash did! What is weird is that only the leather portion warms up, the wood part doesn't. I guess too hard to implement that.

The wife mostly drives the Buick now and she says on super cold mornings the wheel is a nice touch.

tjc78

Even when it's cold outside, I don't care for them.

Finally!! I thought I was the only one!

sterlingdog

Good point about the Hollywood influence. Daily media is as bad. After terrifying us about the flu epidemic for the last two weeks, they announced on the news last evening that the flu has now reached its peak and numbers are declining. Just the night before, I thought that they were going to shut down the entire country. Quite a change in 24 hours!

Richard

sterlingdog

"...the leather portion warms up, the wood part doesn't."

Same here on the Caddy. It doesn't bother me because I don't like the heated steering wheels either. I don't need sweaty hands.

Here's one for you. I had the convertible tires rotated and balanced the other day. The original tires are holding at 35,000 miles. My tire guy suggested that we look at a new set of paws in about six months. I commented that I was only averaging about 7k miles a year on the convertible. He replied that he was more concerned that the tires are now five years old. Do we have to consider that rubber itself would wear out after five years? I always just went on the tread wear.

Richard

driver100

I haven't heard of the flu declining this year. It could be, no one knows for sure, but it usually peaks later January and in February. Since it started earlier, it may end earlier, OR, it could be building and getting worse.

It's how you interpret the news that makes it sound like it will get worse or will fade away.

This from Reuters 18 hours ago:
Nine of the 10 U.S. regions had "elevated" flu activity last week, confirming that seasonal flu has spread across the country and reached high levels several weeks before the usual late January or February,

Good article: Reuters News Flu

bwia

He replied that he was more concerned that the tires are now five years old. Do we have to consider that rubber itself would wear out after five years? I always just went on the tread wear.

After five years the tires begin to deteriorate rapidly and probably should be replaced regardless of the mileage or tread wear. Most drivers often forget the spare in the trunk. It should also be replaced at the same time as the primary tires.

driver100

He replied that he was more concerned that the tires are now five years old.

I have done some research, and it seems no one knows for sure. You can read a very comprehensive article about this at Tire rack;
When to replace unworn tires

If you want the short answer;
Some people, especially people who sell tires say rubber degrades and tires should be replaced after 5 years.

People who drive their cars pretty hard, and some who want to be cautious say 6 years is good.

Some experts believe tires should hold up for 10 years.
My guess is your mechanic is erring on the side of being overly cautious, and would like to sell a set of tires.

This I found very interesting and seldom talked about. It was from a Canadian article but I am pretty sure it would apply in the USA.

All tires have a Tire Identification Number (TIN). This is a string of letters and numbers that are moulded on the sidewall of each tire, and includes the tire date of manufacture.

The last four digits of the TIN correspond to this date. The first two digits represent the week of manufacture, and the last two represent the year. Note, however, that while the TIN appears on both sides of the tire, the manufacture date code appears on only one side.

If new tires remain unsold on on a dealers shelf for two years, they’re sent back to the manufacturer. “Manufacturers are really careful these days with what they carry, and how long they’re left on the shelf.” These tires would of course have a short lifespan once sold.

What I am thinking is it is probably good to check that date if you are buying from a questionable dealer, because they may buy up expired tires and resell them - that could be a scam.

bwia

I was thinking of the many people who are left handed and wondered allowed if there are cars that are designed specifically for left- handers. If a person is left-handed, does that mean they are left-footed as well? On second thoughts, it probably would not make a difference as drivers quickly adjust to right-hand- drive cars in Britain and Japan, etc.

Night Vision driver assistance systems -- As I grow older I find my confidence in night driving is waning to the point that I hardly drive at nights anymore.

Of all the new technologies on cars these days is there something on the horizon that can appreciably improve night vision? I believe BMW has a thermal imaging technology but is that a stand alone vision system or does it work in conjunction with the standard headlights?

abacomike

Even when it's cold outside, I don't care for them. A good heater is enough for me

*Richard, when it gets real cold down her, like in the 40's or low 50's in the mornings, and then you sit in the car on those cold leather seats, it's enough to cause apoplexy. I push the heated seats button on my side and put it on full power (setting 3). About 3 or 4 minutes later, I drop it to setting 2, and then a few minutes later, setting 1. After about 10 minutes, I just turn it off because the heat in the car is sufficient. But I never thought I would ever use heated seats here in Florida, but who knew!

As for ventilated seats (with a fan at the bottom of each front seat), it's essential in the summers here. That, too, has 3 settings for each seat. You can use the ventilated seats in conjunction with the heated seats, if you like. Nice feature. But I use the ventilated seats when the temperature outside is above 85 degrees and humid. Sure makes a difference in the "crack", if you know what I mean.

driver100

, and then you sit in the car on those cold leather seats,

Especially because people wear shorts down here 90% of the time!

oldfarmer50

"... Never had a failed compressor..."

I wonder if that had anything to do with the part of the country? In my area typically the AC gets hard work for a few months and then sits idle for the other 8. I seem to remember reading a recommendation that you run your AC a few time in the winter. Maybe that kept the compressor bearing oiled. :confuse:

oldfarmer50

"...one of the warmest winters..."

Yeah, go ahead rub our northern noses in it! :mad:

isellhondas

Temps here in the Seattle are are moderate but we do use our A/C a lot especially in the winter to help defrost the windows.

When we lived in California it was near the ocean. Didn't need to defrost windows there very often.

sterlingdog

"It's how you interpret the news..."

Not in this case. ABC Evening News used the phrase "declining numbers" and gave specific locations with quick interviews from physicians. I believe it would be better to say: It depends on who you believe.

Richard