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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    When the vehicles are detailed, they are underneath lights.

    Hate to say this but being under lights is not the same as direct sunlight. there are something that just won't be seen unless your in direct sunlight.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Yes Hooked is slang for out of equity

    Hooked

    Buried

    Slammed

    Destroyed

    Kilt (Killed)

    enialated

    In the crapper

    Ran into a salesmen

    I am on the wrong end of this deal

    Guy who sold this two years ago is still on vacation

    No pay for 12 months = no trade for 5 years

    yadda yadda yadda, allot of stores have a language all there own. But seing that the more colorful words are not allowed here its hard to give you a clear picture :)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    We have gotten some people established on a loan that there payment is actually going to principal and they are building credit.

    Many times BK's are caused simply by bad luck. Things can and do get out of control very fast. That person today with lousy credit could very well be the person that comes in in two years with exceptional credit. The BK gives a fresh start to these people.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    What it all boils down to is allot of people where given a chance that may or may not have deserved it. Thats not my decision, thats the lenders. What they do with there chance is up to them. Do they make the most of it or screw it up

    One of the funnier things that I hear from people is when they call up mad at me because the bank turned them down. And they get all mad acting like I don't want to sell them a car. Get a clue, I want to sell every one a car. Sales people get the same heat. I see customers acuse them of not wanting to sell them a car. I promise, that sales person wants to sell every one. Just not always on there terms.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,199
    I think Mitsu was giving out cars with no money down and no payments for a year. They might have also given 0% finance too. What I heard happened is that a lot of people drove the cars for a year and then walked away from them leaving Mitsu with a big mess. I think one of the company big shots had to fall on his sword or something to atone for the disaster.

    I guess this kind of thinking makes for many rich repo men.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    What I heard happened is that a lot of people drove the cars for a year and then walked away from them leaving Mitsu with a big mess.

    I can see that happening. You get a new car, get used to paying nothing for it, and at around the time you get bored with it, you have to start making payments!! :sick:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Followed up with a customer today who was shopping for a new car about a month ago.

    I spent about 2 hours with him on the weekend, on test drives, driving him to the compound to pick out a color, appraising his trade etc.

    The truck he wanted to trade in was worth about $2500, and he wanted $5k no less.

    So we couldn't agree on a deal, but I urged him to put a deposit on the Fit he was looking at as they were in short supply. "no no no he says, he doesn't mind waiting, but he has to sell his truck first, he can get $5k easy!"

    So a few weeks go by and I try to get a hold of him to see whether he's still in the market, and finally today I reach him:
    Me: "Did you sell your truck yet?"
    Him: "No, I traded it in"
    Me: "For what car?"
    Him: "I bought a Honda Fit at another dealer"
    Me: Did you buy it there cause they paid more for your trade?"
    Him: "No, they offered same as you, but you didn't put enough pressure on me to buy, and they did, so I bought there"
    Me: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

    That's the first time I heard someone admit that they like being pressured.

    SOmetimes we're too nice and we lose out, and sometimes we're too pushy, and lose also.... I love the car biz :P

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Doesn't sound like they said they liked being pressured but that they are admitting to bowing to the pressure.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Check out the price on a Mercury GM at the end of the year.

    17K(yes, that low!) and 60-72 months with no interest? I'd buy one myself as a second car if Ford does it again. :)

    With $2000 down, that's a puny $208 a month.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    they are probably still driving the same truck.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    people have short memories or they figure it just does not matter to them.
    after 9-11, people here in the northeast were in a state of shock. i give GM credit for their 'get america rolling' campaign. it came back to bite them and others, and it was not without some self interest, but it made a difference.
    maybe toyota and honda building plants over here is part of their 'marshall plan'.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • phinneas519phinneas519 Member Posts: 113
    What you call the truth of the market, I call the "intelligence of the market." I've said it once and I'll say it again for emphasis...

    You're absolutely right to say that the market is in control of perceived price and value. The problem is that the reasons for the prices determined aren't often rational. Though it is the primary determiner of value, "the market" (almost akin to the invisible hand, like "the man") has very little credibility in my eyes. After all, these are the same folks who create artificial demand for products like Elmo TMX and bottled water.

    The market is akin to sheep. Economists talk about the market as it is - comprised of herds of sheep. They also speak about said market without denoting any sense of critical thinking because more often than not, it is the truth that critical thinking isn't a part of their equation. Critical thinking would do a great deal to eliminate the blind devotion of many consumers, without loyalty of any sort, and their arguments that favor imports (these arguments often have the depth of a soup bowl).
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    The market is akin to sheep.

    I distinguish between "the market" and "marketing" and what you are describing is mostly the latter. An exchange occurs at the point of sale (here and now) and either the vendor or customer may use past sales between other people to sway the current transaction. That's the market. Oftentimes, marketing is a device used to influence demand in favor of one product over another where substantial differences between them barely or rarely exist.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • phinneas519phinneas519 Member Posts: 113
    You're right to make that distinction. However, I think it's fair to assume that marketing influences the buyers' decisions and, in turn, the market itself. The last sentence of what you said establishes that link, IMO.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Your story about the people who wanted to be pressured is amazing!

    Maybe it is kind of like people who stay in abusive relationships. They want to feel that someone cares about them, and when someone abuses them, they feel that person cares about them.

    Anyway, this is all kind of beyond my comprehension. I am glad I made my living working with numbers instead of people.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I am glad I made my living working with numbers instead of people.

    Now we know where it all started. ;)

    Good morning Bob. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, that's so true and I've heard it myself.

    Awhile back, I had a customer quite upset with me.

    This lady almost drove me nuts. After spending three hours with her on a busy Saturday looking at a variety of used cars, she FINALLY found one she really liked. I thought we had struck a deal but I was wrong.

    " I want to go sleep on it"

    " That's fine but it might sell...it's a rare car that has had a lot of attention already"

    " Well, it it's meant to be, it's meant to be"

    On Monday morning she shows up to find it sold the same afternoon she looked it it.

    She was SO upset, she cried and told me I should have pushed her harder!
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    It's often about taking responsibility for one's action. People feel paralyzed when they realize they will have no one else to blame. If they experience a pushy and unpleasant salesman/woman, the pressure is released and they have somebody to blame, just in case...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    to take that one step further, people do not like to take responsibility for their actions. if they bought the car, its the salespersons fault because they pushed them into it. if they didn't, and it sold to someone else, its the salesperson's fault because they didn't push harder...

    either way, its easier for the customer to blame the salesperson, than to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions. salespeople just cant win! when to push, when not to push? either way, it seems to be wrong! :P

    my two cents...

    thene :)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You can't assume everybody who has bad credit is because they were a prodigal deadbeat. Some people run into medical emergencies, lose their jobs, or go through a nasty divorce.

    Geeze, if people with bad credit got 0% financing for 72 months from Ford, what would somebody with bulletproof credit get?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    You can't assume everybody who has bad credit is because they were a prodigal deadbeat. Some people run into medical emergencies, lose their jobs, or go through a nasty divorce.

    Yes, but how many? Besides, if they owe money to someone, whether it's a hospital, lawyer, or a credit card company that they have not paid off and are late, what is their business in getting a brand new car? Any way you cut it - person with bad credit has other more important obligations to fulfill before they can even start thinking about acquiring another consumer debt. They present a substantial risk and their guilt of innocence may only be relevant to the extent of the risk they present. So anyone who thinks it's a good idea to hand money over to such persons gets what they deserve - probably large number of future defaults.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "Geeze, if people with bad credit got 0% financing for 72 months from Ford, what would somebody with bulletproof credit get? "

    an import? :)
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    "Geeze, if people with bad credit got 0% financing for 72 months from Ford, what would somebody with bulletproof credit get?"

    an import?


    This coming from the guy who sells Hyundai. :P :P :P

    note: before beating up on me, know that my folks own a Sonata, my ex had a Santa Fe for a number of years and some close friends of ours are on their second Santa Fe.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Geeze, if people with bad credit got 0% financing for 72 months from Ford, what would somebody with bulletproof credit get?

    OK …… my turn.

    Using Fords logic …… minus 0% for 12 months.

    Explanation: minus 0% means that Ford will pay a nominal amount, based on an average of the customers credit rating, from the three credit rating outfits (not to exceed $100 a month). With the stipulation that when the car is turned in after 12 months, the customer agrees to give Ford perfect scores on their CSI as to how the program was implemented.

    Next.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    I worked with someone a few years ago who was going through a bankruptcy. She got all kinds of offers for new and used car loans. Even she was shocked that they were so aggressive.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    person with bad credit has other more important obligations to fulfill before they can even start thinking about acquiring another consumer debt.

    Just remember we are not talking about just consumer debt but an item that will allow someone to travel to a better paying job to allow them to help fulfill those other obligations.

    Just remember that there are many people who walk away from bankruptcy and maintain great credit ever after it.

    After bankruptcy it is essential to get and use credit (but use it wisely).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Thene, for my two cents, you're right on the mark. :shades:

    james
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    It must have been after her bankruptcy was discharged. It is very difficult to get credit when you are in bankruptcy, it has to be approved by the judge. However its is not unusual for judges to approve the assumption of credit for basic transportation.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    I replied to a reply to your original (this) message, but got no response. Here's what I said:

    I'm seriously considering going with an ED 3 series next fall, and Chapman (oh, wait, it used to be Linda Brock) BMW is my most convenient store. When I drop in there to do my initial negotiation, one of the questions will involve how long the person I'm talking with has been working at the store. Anyone want to bet that it'll be over a year? Five?

    And, to Max, thanks for your response. When the time comes, I'd appreciate any introductions you are willing to provide. And thanks again for all the helpful input on the other boards.


    That said, does the Chapman thing still apply? I bought an Eagle Vision from Chapman in Payson in '96, so have absolutely no hearburn with their brand, but they do seem to be absorbing other stores.

    Any help is appreciated.

    However, continuity and/or loyalty is a pretty rare commodity in the Phx market, from what I've seen. I'm certainly prepared to be corrected.

    Thanks.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • cwalticwalti Member Posts: 185
    ...nah, you did the right thing!! I know it must p!$$ you off when they do that to you. But if I come across a pushy salesman, I will set him / her cold. I will make the transaction on my terms and I will not be pushed into a sour deal. I understand that there has to be a profit and when I feel the threshold approach I can assume that I am getting to the hard spot... I like to deal with OC Honda World where I get a no-nonsense no hpressure treatment. If all terms are right I'll execute!
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Yup, it was afterwards.
  • murphydogmurphydog Member Posts: 735
    Isell and other sales people:

    As a long time lurker, infrequent poster I can only say keep the stories coming. I come back to this forum time and time again to hear about the knuckleheads y'all have to deal with. I very much enjoy hearing it.

    BTW, Isell and any other old timers - what every happened to Cliffy? :confuse:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Also note that car loans are not discharged during bankruptcies. You either reaffirm the loan and continue to make payments or you give up the car.

    Also currently lenders are now looking at recent bankruptcies as somewhat less risky as they, under the current laws, cannot declare bankruptcy for another 7 years.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Generally - agree. But to get transportation does not necessarily mean to purchase a 20-30-40-50 grand brand new vehicle. Not when other obligations are to be paid. After all is paid or discharged - perhaps a gradual debt acquisition is advised, but in a very controlled manner. A moderately priced new vehicle might qualify, provided the income is there and the existing obligations are not outweighing it.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    Cliffy? Now, there's a blast from the past.

    I memory serves, He went through some personal problems and/or quite the biz. He had great stories, though.

    Same can be said for the likes of "rroyce". He was a great tool for assessing RWTV. He just dropped off of these forums and never came back after being here many years.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • litmanlitman Member Posts: 9
    I sure hope not:

    I am selling my '03 RSX-S privately, so I guess this makes me a salesman for a while.

    Yesterday I get a call from a potential buyer, and he sounds young. Now, I know my old car, and I know how popular it is with the tuner crowd; they all want to "peemp owt de owtow" as we see on the GTI ad campaigns. Moreover, as a high-school teacher (I'm just a part-time salesman), I'm pretty sure I have a handle on many of the nuances of American youth.

    Anyway, potential buyer (PB) shows up at a neutral location because I don't want him to know where I live - the engine control modules seem to be a target of thieves on this car, and I don't want PB to know my permanent location until I have gotten a read on him.

    He shows at the agreed time, and he inspects the auto, while, secretly, in my head, I assess him as a potential owner. Skater kid, young, has a semi-pimped out late model import. But seems nice enough. We take a test drive - and I allow him to open it up a little; he has no problem with this. As we ride, I ask his age: 18. "Do you know how much insurance is going to run you?"

    "My mom says she'll pay it as long as I live at home and take 6 units at the Junior College."

    "Are you in school now?"

    "Yeah, I'm a senior at XXX XXXXX High School."

    Gulp. I teach these guys. I see their irresponsible antics on a regular basis. For God's sake - I was one of these guys 20 years ago. If this guy makes a good offer, do I really want to unleash this on the roads of America?

    "So why do you like this car?"

    "I have been checking them out for a while. My brother has a G35. One of these beat him on the freeway, and it was barely modified."

    "Oh. How old is your brother?"

    "23."

    Hmmm. 23 and commanding 260-307 HP at high freeway speeds against an RSX-S. Meanwhile, PB is putting the car through its paces - quite aggressively I might add, and I'm thinking, "how long until PB and Big Bro decide to see who has the bigger di....errrrr.....I mean better car driving skill while swerving through a set of holiday travelers or carrying a load of classmates?"

    "You know, the car supposedly gets 23-27 mpg, but I drive pretty aggressively sometimes myself and never seem to get better than 22. If you drive like this, you probably will see high-teens."

    "Uh-huh. I don't normally drive like this."

    "You don't normally drive this car. You might not be able to help yourself."

    "Uh-huh."

    Anyway, after the drive, and another close inspection, I tell PB to email me if he has any other questions or wants to make an offer. As he drives off to work, I'm thinking, this car has been way too good to me, and the previous owner as well - I know him - to go out like this: pimped out and possibly wrapped around a tree - or worse yet, killing people in a street race gone bad. I am in no hurry to sell, and the car has been on the market 4 days. If this kid does make an reasonable offer, am I an idiot for saying telling him, sorry, but no deal? Am I a jerk - the grumpy middle-aged dude I despised when I was his age?

    Personal ethics sure are a [non-permissible content removed] sometimes.

    Finally, as much as I respect this little car; it really is wonderful for what it is, I can see why Acura discontinued it. Do they really want saggy pants guy hanging next to a potential RL buyer? I mean, in my line of work, I emcounter a lot of "saggy pants" guys; I know the archetype, and many of them are perfectly harmless. But the typical RL, or for that matter, TL, TSX, MDX, RDX, and even used NSX buyers at the local Acura dealer are probably buying an Acura just so they don't have to hang out with "saggy pants" dude while they sip coffee and read the WSJ in the service lobby. Good on you, Acura.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    But if I come across a pushy salesman, I will set him / her cold. I will make the transaction on my terms and I will not be pushed into a sour deal.

    "I don't let nobody tell me what to do or how to do it! I do what I want! And if those nasty salespeople try and sell me anything, I'll stop them dead in their tracks. I'll say to them, you better stop trying to sell me something or else I'll just get up and walk outta here. I don't care. It's my life. I do what I want!"

    Yawn.

    I love seeing people posture on this board. They are big as life while they are in front of the keyboard but pussycats when they walk through that door. C'mere little fella, lemme give you some catnip!

    -Moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Ahh, the ethics of selling. It's not a handgun, so I think you should rest easy. What he does with the vehicle after you sell it is not on you. He's an adult now, right?

    -Moo
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Good story litman. I would sell to "saggy pants" if he agrees to your asking price. To not do so based on his age and appearance would be unethical in my book.

    Seems you have quite an attachment to this vehicle that has served you so well. But, when it's time to say goodbye, you have to cut those apron strings. I'm betting this kid will lavish your RSX with lots of TLC. With the price of the car and mom paying his insurance, he certainly has more incentive to drive with a reasonable amount of sanity.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,199
    Is it true that Cliffy was really "The Blue Genie" from "King of Cars"?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "I love seeing people posture on this board. They are big as life while they are in front of the keyboard but pussycats when they walk through that door. C'mere little fella, lemme give you some catnip!"

    Madman, I think you are exactly right. People like you are much more experienced at selling than we are at buying. We are not good at thinking on the spot and we can easily be manipulated by a good sales person.

    Over time, however, we have come to accept our limitations, just as Dirty Harry Callahan advised us to.

    That is why we make all of our decisions before we are ready to buy a car. We know exactly what we want and exactly what we are willing to pay and will not deviate one iota. It makes car buying a very enjoyable experience.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Bobst,

    I love that quote. Something along the lines of, "A good man knows his limitations".

    I'm just poking fun at him, but it makes me laugh. I love hearing people tell me they are excellent negotiators. That means I'm going to be making some gross.

    Actions speak MUCH louder than words.

    -Moo
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Cliffy said he worked at Kay Jennings Toyota in Springfield VA, just a few miles from where we live.

    In his postings, he seemed like a decent guy, even though we didn't agree about most things.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...is a guy's credit if he gets turned down for financing even with a $10K down payment? I saw "King of Cars" last night. This guy wanted to buy a white Dodge Charger R/T with custom wheels for his wife, had $10K for a down payment, yet he was turned down for financing. Eventually, they found a bank that would finance him, but the deal fell through a week later.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Am I a jerk - the grumpy middle-aged dude I despised when I was his age?

    Probably not a jerk but you only have to think back to when you were 23 to answer the secdond part. Sell him the car if he makes a reasonable offer, and sleep easy about it.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    We are not good at thinking on the spot and we can easily be manipulated by a good sales person.

    "We"?... speak for yourself bobst. ;)

    Be informed and prepared... and even the best manipulative salesperson will be taking a "mini".
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Jip,

    even the best manipulative salesperson will be taking a "mini".


    You're making me very sad right now. Think of my as yet unborn child and lovely wife.

    How about this, I offer an alternative to making sure your "manipulative" salesperson not making any money. How about you tip him! After you have negotiated a mini, throw in a hundred dollars for his time and effort. Money that goes directly to him instead of the company. DEAL?!

    -Moo
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    He won't have to buy a coffin - he has his Mitsu
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    This guy wanted to buy a white Dodge Charger R/T with custom wheels for his wife, had $10K for a down payment, yet he was turned down for financing.

    Hmmm, got to see that episode!

    I'm guessing he was paying full MSRP on the Charger, so the amount to finance was $20-25K.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I think you are right about Cliffy. He was part of another group of "us" but he disappeared there too.

    Too bad, he was a good guy.
This discussion has been closed.