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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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When the redesigned Explorers came out in 2001, the wife and I went to take a look at them .. we had an Expedition that was coming off lease in a few months.
When we ran the numbers on the Limited model, it was just way too much for us.
The salesman, to his credit, found an XLT with leather that worked just as well.
Once he trade a lexus ES300 on the the new 2004 avalon and he had not even made the 1st paymnet on the lexus yet. makes you wonder
I'm a small, average looking guy. At the time I was in civilian clothes but my haircut and my Corporal who was with me in uniform said lower enlisted.
I chalk it up more to the fact that it was a military town, and a lot of the businesses treat servicemen, especially enlisted poorly, unless they're scamming them. I'm sure a lot of this has changed post 9-11, but in the 90's thats how Ft Hood was.
I am an excellent negotiator and one thing that a good negotiator knows is to show as little of your hand as possible. So an excellent negotiator will not enter into a negotiation announcing that they are an excellent negotiator.
But lets face it we are talking about buying cars not Louisiana.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thats funny
the fastest and easiest way to stop it is to say no and walk out the door.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"I don't want none of that extra crap, its all a just a rip off" I don't say a word, I just pick up my phone, act as though I am calling clean up and say "Do you have the smith vehicle back there? You know those free oil change and clean up certificates I put in the glove box, please take them out, he don't want them" its great watching them back pedal. Normally they will then listen to me and I will sell 20% of them a Service Contract, or a Lojack Security system.
Also has anyone ever just sat there when you did that?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Ya some just sat there. Some people are so damn paranoid from a bad expirience they had in the 80's that they think everything is a rip off. Those are the same people who still think there is $5K mark up in a new Focus
If the downpayment is cash, that draws more suspicion. Even "5 to 6,000" is a lot of physical cash...But when it's over $10,000 in cash, that's when a dealership legally has to file a Form 8300.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know quite a few people who had enough means to quit their private jobs, and did so, but took a part-time job that offered health insurance. Also, in my state (and I would guess in many other states as well), you can qualify for a partial state pension even if you only worked for the state for a few years.
Just curious. If a customer does not want any of the extras do you ask him to sign a paper that he refused any extended warranty, etc?
The last car I bought that's what the F&I guy asked me to do, which I found to be a little strange. I wouldn't sign the paper so he wrote "customer refused to sign".
To paraphrase what someone said on another board - That's like going to the supermarket to buy a quart of milk and having them ask you to sign a paper saying that you don't want to buy a turkey.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
I am not in the business but I agree with the dealerships who require you to initial that form. It eliminates the "he said, she said" nonsense that goes on six months to a year later. And it puts everything in writing so that there is NO confusion.
What you bought is already in writing on the itemized receipt that goes with the sale. If it's not listed there then you didn't buy it. Having a customer sign a "refusal" statement is redundant, borders on harassment and may well be intended as a last ditch effort to pressure someone into paying for a service they do not want. I'd seriously consider walking if someone pulled that on me.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
In my business, we go to great lengths upon customer signing of a contract, to have sales clearly document any discussions and/or side agreements concessions that were made. This is very important as the package then gets handed off from Sales to Service Delivery. Clarifies the 'grey area' that might exist.
If I decline to purchase extended warranty (or anything else for that manner), I have NO problem initialling that I had declined it.
This isn't it at all. On certain products, F&I is required to sign waiver statements because people come back and try to sue the dealership because they didn't offer the product to them. OR they say that they did purchase it, but the dealership threw the records away. This is merely the dealership covering their arses to protect themselves from the wonderful consumer.
-Moo
The reason behind it is that people have selective memory loss. You refuse today and 4 years later your AC goes out and you go to the service department, they ask if you have a service contract to pay for the $1400 AC repair and you reply "No one ever offered me a service contract". The burden of proof in a court of law is on the dealer to prove you were offered the product in the first place. It happens more then you would think. People get real quite when you bust out the form showing them that they were in fact offered the Service contract in 3 different packages and they declined it in writing.
Almost everything you sign in the F&I office stems from the fact that some one has attempted to sue in the past.
If that's the case then it's a different matter entirely.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I believe the burden of proof would be on the plaintiff in a court of law. If it comes down to someones word against someone elses, then the acccusor must meet burden of proof. As well as the fact that a dealership not offering a service contract is hardly actionable by lawsuit. The worst a customer could do in said case is whine, raise a stink, and threaten a lawsuit.
Of course, different story if this form is required by law, as someone else suggested.
A detail job?
I totally agree, Venture. It seems strange to sign a paper that states I am not buying what I am not buying.
In general, I am not an agreeable person at all. However, for some reason, I don't mind signing the form saying I am not buying rust & dust, choke & croak, etc.
A detail job?
Ya, we call itclean up around here. "Get you delivery in clean up"
No, it is just a piece of paper specifying the model of car we want, the color, the options, and the OTD price we are willing to pay. If they accept, we give them a personal check.
By the way, I'm doing pretty well these days, in case anyone cares. I shot a 75 on both of the last two days, which is good for me. The stronger grip that I changed to last year is feeling pretty good. My wife and I are both glad to see that Spring is here.
I believe the burden of proof would be on the plaintiff in a court of law. If it comes down to some ones word against someone else, then the acccusor must meet burden of proof. As well as the fact that a dealership not offering a service contract is hardly actionable by lawsuit. The worst a customer could do in said case is whine, raise a stink, and threaten a lawsuit.
Of course, different story if this form is required by law, as someone else suggested
Then I know some dealers who want there money back
If you have the form it is never an issue, when the threat of a law suit comes along you have documentation and that saves you from having to pay a lawyer or arbitrator to defend you actions in the first place.
To give you an example, one time several years ago we sold a lady a new Windstar. We had to get her new tags. At the time in TN you wrote 15 day drive out tags. Her tags came in about 4 days after the sale, we call and leave a message, two days later, we called again, left a message. We are now on day 8 of a 15 day drive out tag. I told the sales person I would call, I had 3 numbers for her, got her on her cell phone and she raised hell and told me to stop aggravating her about the tags, she was busy and would get there, and if we had any type of customer service after the sale we would bring them to her or mail them. Now if she would have been a polite person I would have sent the runner with the tags, but she set the table for how this was going to be. i told her if I mailed them and they were lost it would be her responsibility to file for lost tags and to replace them, she said "I won't pay for chit, its not my problem if they are lost" So I told her that this would be my last phone call, apologized for bothering her.
Well guess what two weeks later her tags are still here and I get a letter from a law firm saying that this women was suing us. Come to find out it was for mental anguish for the embarresment she was caused when the police gave her a ticket for an expired drive out tag, and that it traumitized her children seeing the Officer writing her a ticket.
Now we all know it was BS but we still had to take the time and spend the money to have our lawyer respond to the letter.
Rule #1 at all times CYA
We wash cars that are brought in for service. It has come to the point where we have to do a walk around with the customers. If we see any scratches or body damage, we note it on a form and have the customers sign these.
Whoever was "blasting" someone who has been hungover and broke...I've been both of those at some point in my life (at the same time). Does that mean I'm a "dead dog"?
A sales story for a motorized vehicle (not a car, though)....One of the many jobs I had in college was as a sales person for a lawn and garden place (selling when I wasn't loading dirt, sod, mulch). You guys talking about that 5% of customers who will never be happy reminded me of an incident I had there. There was a cranky guy who came to me looking for a riding mower. He spent probably 3 hours looking and sitting on every riding mower we had.
While I wasn't authorized to offer discounts, this guy wanted a discount. I told him over and over again, the price is the price, no negotiations. He still insisted on a discount. He hung around the store long enough that I finally agreed to go talk to the owner. Owner said the only way the guy got a discount was if I would give the guy my commission (which wasn't much, maybe $50).
Just to get this guy out of the store, I told him I'd split my commission with him. It wasn't a lot of money, but at least it was something. I just wanted him gone, anyway. He ended up buying the mower.
Two weeks later, he pulls back in with the riding mower sitting in the back of his pickup all dirty. He comes up to me and tells me he doesn't want the mower anymore. He goes on to say that it doesn't cut grass the right way.
Customer-I want something that will cut grass the way I see those professional baseball diamonds look
Me-Sir, that's a function of "cross cutting" and the type of grass the ballparks use. It's not a function of the mower.
Me-Sir, does the mower start? Does it cut grass?
Customer-Yes, but it doesn't give me the cut I want. It leaves clippings all over my lawn
Me-Ahh, I see...you need the optional grass catcher attachment that will collect all your clippings. It costs $$$ extra.
At this point, the guy goes ballistic over having to spend even more money.
Bottom line, the customer demands to talk to the owner. I comply. The owner tells him there's nothing he can do with a mower that works, but is used. He can't give him his money back, but will take the mower back on consignment to see if he can get him some money for it. Customer leaves all in a "huff", with the mower, tells the owner he'll never do business again with me or the store. :sick:
There are a lot of hungry lawyers out there ... and some pretty stupid ones.
Last year, I was on jury duty. I sat on the jury in a lawsuit for $2500. Guy rear-ends this lady. Admits fault. Pays damages to her vehicle. Refuses to pay for treatment which consisted of 1) ambulance to the hospital, 2) emergency room and 3) x-rays to see that spine was OK.
Needless to say, jury agreed in favor of plaintiff in under two minutes. All jurors were ticked off that it even made it to court.
It's a small percentage but they are simply more trouble than they are worth and they will never, ever be happy!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hmm, that sounds like meat for more stories
I once had an Asian couple pay green cash for a 12,000 used car. all in tens and twenties.
When they said "cash", I assumed a check. I had wondered what the briefcase was for. What a pain, counting and recounting all of that money until midnight!
Unfortunately, I didn't get to finish it yet. I'm really intrigued by that guy's story, though. so he offered $10k down and they couldn't get him financed. They agreed to $11k and he goes to the bank and gets cash. Then he comes back and they tell him they STILL couldn't get him financed unless he puts down almost $15k. OUCH! That has got to be some pretty horrendous credit. Anyway, that's where I left off when I had a kid emergency (sort of).
Oh, and this was a car "as a suprise gift for the wife" that just HAD TO HAVE $4200 chrome wheels and tint job and they were even discussing TVs.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I have not read every intervening post since last I visited here ( 2 or 3 week ) so I apologize if this has been posted already . . .
Many & Varied Cop cars online:
http://www.copcarsonline.com/gallery.htm
And yet another approach – Bloomfield Hills PD Corvette C6:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/rayainsw/Corvette%20C6%20Cop%20Car/Corvet- teC6PoliceCar1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/rayainsw/Corvette%20C6%20Cop%20Car/Corvet- teC6PoliceCar2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/rayainsw/Corvette%20C6%20Cop%20Car/Corvet- teC6PoliceCar3BloomfieldHills.jpg
- Ray
Not a cop - and hope never to be involved in traffic law enforcement - from any angle.......
He's getting paid.
Dealerships get threatened w/ all kinds of BS all the time.
the more you can CYA, the better off you are.
There are people on gov't assistance of one sort or another that work on an under the table basis and deal in cash so the gov't can't find out how much money they really have.
There are others, mainly illegals, who don't have social security numbers and can't open bank accounts. Again, they deal in cash.
And others are just ignorant and have don't know about or understand cashiers checks and the like. Or think that cash will get them a better price. Or just like the "I'm a big shot" feeling of having a briefcase full of cash. I have to admit there's a certain feeling you get from holding 20K in cash in your hand that you don't get from a check.
Of course you also have you're drug dealers and the like who have gobs of ill-gotten cash that they don't want to show up on the governments radar.
I don't think you all understood what I said earlier. This has gone to court in the great state of California and the burden of proof was left on the dealer. They could not prove it so the dealer paid the repair bill. We don't do this on an "if", it has happened.
California huh... well, that cetainly explains everything. :shades:
California huh... well, that cetainly explains everything.
Keep in mind, these are the same people that need a "Bill Of Rights" to go buy a car. You could not pay me enough money to work F&I in that state.