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Therefore, after one year of payments, your account balance would be ~$15,340.
After year two, you would owe ~$12,680, and
After year three, you would owe ~$9,830.
This would affect your "net" situation and you would not be "positive" until the third year.
*The total amount of interest over the first three year period would be just slightly over $2,900.
*If you indeed do have the 6.5% rate you mentioned earlier, financing $17,825 over 6 years would result in a monthly payment of $299.xx.
I really am not trying to be rude here, and I fully admit to seeing just the tail end of the thread, but seriously what exactly are you asking here?
Does the kid and Mcdonalds need to check your blood pressure before you can order?
Does the clerk at the local Safeway need to verify your up to date on your bills before selling you a lottery ticket?
See where this ends up going? Kind of chilling if you ask me!
I am all for the golden rule and such, but these are my decisions to make, just as they are your decisions as well, right? I mean who am I to decide something for you or anybody else?
Ok. I'll bite. :shades:
The answer is no, we won't do it. However, I note that you average about 1 post every three weeks so we're going to have to ask you to start carrying your own weight and boost that to 3 per day. That will relieve the burden somewhat on other members.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Not asking anything here, just making the comment that in the past here all the sales professionals here were saying that they work for the customers and that they have their best interests at heart. But when push comes to shove they will put someone in a car they can ill afford proclaiming that the customers finances are not their responsibility.
Does the kid and McDonalds need to check your blood pressure before you can order?
Nope, nor do I see any kids from McDonalds here posting that they have my best interests at heart.
Does the clerk at the local Safeway need to verify your up to date on your bills before selling you a lottery ticket?
Nope, nor do I see the clerk at the local Safeway here posting that they have my best interests at heart.
I mean who am I to decide something for you or anybody else?
I agree but then I am not saying I have all these peoples best interest at heart.
My whole point is you cannot sit here one time saying that you work for the customer and have their best interests at heart then claim that certain things are not your responsibility.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
we have our employers best interest at heart.. that is it..it is easier for us to sell a car that a customer wants and likes..rather than one they do not. That is why we have their interest at heart. Remember, they come to us, we do not call them at home or go knock on their door.
Perhaps they are saying that on their own dedicated sites?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You're up to eight so far today - Great start!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
So if the clerk at the coffee shop says "have a nice day" is he/she lying to you? I mean coffee is bad for you in the long run, so this sugar coating is just that?
Snake - I get what you are saying, however I think you are applying it too broadly. The breadth and depth of self induced misery is not the responsibility of the sales person, besides they cannot judge better that you what is "best" overall. A terminal cancer patient may want nothing more that to enjoy a new corvette for the next few months. She/he is going to leave behind a spouce and children. Say the sales person flat out rejects the sale, then finds out that the spouce and kids wanted him/her to enjoy that vette, who would have been the better decider, the salesperson or the buyer?
:shades:
I believe in them, I see they work and I wouldn't let my wife buy a car without one, eventhough I wouldn't cost ME very much if I DID NOT have it. After all, my labor to myself is FREE (but remember, YOU must pay me for my labor)
Also remember, thre are 2 different types of service contracts - those backed by the manufacturer (factory) and 3rd party.
Those backed by the factory usually have 0 (zero) deductible and DO NOT require a 3rd party inspector/verification.
My .02 ... buy it and have piece of mind.
Otherwise you roll the dice and most cars nowadays cost BIG BUCKS to repair. And this I know is FACT!
Just to let you know, I worked at BMW a few years back (early 2001) and they, like Benz, VW, Audi & Rover DO cost BIG $$ once the factory warranty expires.
many a time I have seen a repair that would have beeen covered by a contract, declined and the car towed out 'cause the owner did not want to pony up the Grand or so I would have cost to repair. The contract would have cost about 2,600.
Time & time again, I have seen just a few repairs outweigh the cost of the contract.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
First, if you product is so unreliable that you need to worry about thousands in repairs, why buy it? Wonder why I steer my drivers into Lexus models as opposed to MB, Saab or Volvo models? Past experiences.
Second, in general, dealers sell products that make them a reasonable profit. ESCs tend to be a good profit center for their dealerships. What kills me are the people who buy a Honda above MSRP as it is more reliable than the domestics and then buy the ESC for "added protection."
Personally, I would rather put the service contract money into a savings vehicle for use should I have one of those (unlikely) repairs.
McDonalds will not sell be a cheeseburger because I am too fat; if they do, I can sue them when my arteries clog up. I can't buy a house in Snob Hill because I can't put down 93% of the purchase price. I might as well stop putting money in a 401k; somebody will look after me when I retire. The federal government wants to stick its nose everywhere it shouldn't and nowhere where it should.
How depressing!
Now you tell me that I need to bring all bank statements, investment account statements, pay stubs, credit card statements, piggy banks, and a detailed list of the contents of my cupboard down to the dealership for an IRS-style audit. All of this hassle so that I can beg my dealer to let me finance my Lexiniti for 60 months? I promise I can afford it, Mr. Salesman, don't worry about little Johnny starving---I can swing it.
Where does it end? Where does it end?
Where is my Lunesta? I will never fall asleep now. Better not, I may have been unduly influenced by all of those drug advertisements on TV. Oh brother!
Can I have your job when you retire?
(spoiler:
MB = Chrysler
GM = Saab
Ford = Volvo)
you (or better yet, your fleet drivers) like American Iron, do ya??
The salesguy he was dealing with wasn't here, so I reluctantly went to grab the keys, ticked off as this wasn't my deal and now I had to do stuff for this guy.
I opened up the car for him, and answered some questions. He started bad mouthing the other salesguy and how he was getting bad service from him and so on. I wanted to go away but he kept yapping and yapping while I just shook my head and nodded.
I tell the other sales guy (nice guy, easy to deal with)what happenned and he told me that the customer was a big time grinder, and a jerk to him, and he made no money on the deal.
A few days later he picks up his car, but then I see him back at the dealership every few days coming picking up freebies and complaining about stuff. I guess he took a liking to me cause every time he came in he wanted to chat with me and shoot sht.
So my co worker makes a skinny deal on a high maintenance customer, who then gives him a crappy service to boot and bad mouths him every chance he gets............
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Neither me or my coworker who dealt with the customer wants to deal with them again as he's a cocky whiner who'll grind us for everything we've got. So I quickly went into hiding to try to avoid them. However there is no escape from the mighty paging system, as they came into the showroom and got me paged :mad:
I come out and greet them nicely with a forced smile on my face, and they said they're looking around for a car for his gf.
So we chat for a bit look at some cars, and land on a nice new Civic. They tell me that if the price is right they'll buy right away, so we sit down grind for an hour or two, but a friendly grind, as we're cracking jokes back and forth and so on. I make his gf laugh, but I'm not about to steal a man's girl (not just yet :P ) so I keep it on a professional level. We do the deal, and she picks up her Civic the same day. I thought, hmm, the guy's a grinder and bad mouths my coworker, but I got a deal out of it. What the heck.
Fast forwards another 4 months, and February 2005 comes around and I see them (him, gf, and the folks) back again. Now it turns out the dad (her dad) is looking for a car. We look at cars again, and the dad test drives and Accord. Same thing again, we grind for a bit, actually the boyfriend grinds, and we come to an agreement. Deal is done and dad picks up his car.
Now every time he brings me customers he gets a referral fee from me, but he doesn't tell his gf, or the dad about it.
Fast forward............
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Once again, we grind it out, laugh, crack jokes and the deal is done. Buddy #1 picks up his new car.
Two months later he comes in with gf and buddy #2, and gets him to buy a new car from me as well. We grind we chat, we laugh again, and I start to really take notice to his gf now. I saw that they were pretty tight together so it didn't even cross my mind to try to hook up with her.
I keep in touch with them and find out that the guy and his gf broke up. But I didn't really think of anything, and calling her out of the blue for a date would be inappropriate.
Now because the guy brought me all these customers and he liked negotiating with me so much, he decided he wanted to sell cars as well. So I refer him to an automotive school, where he finishes his car sales course and gets a job at a domestic dealership selling cars.
A few months later in the summer of 2005, I get complaints from the gf's dad about his Accord having problems with squeaks and rattles, and so on, so I try to help them out with the service department, as he had to come back a few times for repairs.
Meanwhile I end up dating some chicks from internet date sites (not the best experience), and one day I get a call from the guy's now ex-gf, about her dad's Accord. They were driving somewhere on the highway and one of the tires went flat, but they couldn't find any punctures so they thought it might be the valve stems that are leaking air. It happened to two different tires on seperate occasions.
I thought, great, the dad's already not happy about the Accord because of the rattle issue, now more stuff is coming up.
So I tell her to come in and I'll try to help her out.....
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I call and follow up a few days later with her, and as we chat she thanks me for trying to help them. I say no problem, and as a joke told her "you owe me a dinner" :P .
A few weeks go by and we start chatting on msn, and we end up setting a coffee date for a Sunday. Her ex-bf knows nothing about this.
The night before (Saturday) the date, my buddy drags me out to an all night rave. I'm thinking why not I should recover my tommorow night.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I get home and go to sleep and get a call at about noon (right in the middle of my sleep) from the girl's now ex-bf. He has another friend (buddy #3) who wants to buy a Civic from me. I tell him I'm kinda messed up and tired, but I'll come in and help them out.
I come in and go for a test drive with the ex-bf and buddy #3. I acutally give them the keys and tell them to drive it themselves and I'll stay behind. Before they leave I tell them a bit about the car in the best way I can under the conditions I was in:
"the seats have active headrests" I say
"what does that mean?" they ask
"hmm, not sure, but I know they're active, what else do you want to know?"
Anyways buddy #3 puts in an order in for a new 2006 Civic (about 3 weeks away). I think to myself that if the guy knew I'm going on a date with his ex that same evening, that would be the lasdt I hear from him.
I get back home and go back to sleep, and go on the date. It goes perfectly, and we hit it off from the start.
We go on a few more dates and we decide it's best to tell her ex-bf about our dating together. The day after I do, his last friend (buddy #3) cancels the Civic order he placed with me. Even though he said it was for other reasons, he later admitted that it's because the ex-bf told him to cause he was mad at me. :surprise:
I didn't really care anyways cause I ended up with a wonderul woman, and we're now engaged and will be getting married in September of this year. :shades:
So this guy that I tried so hard to avoid that one evening brings me 5 customers who all buy cars from me within the span of about 1 year, and basically hands me his own gf as well.
Also on a side note, after he went into car sales, buddy #2, and #3 who I sold cars to went into car sales as well.
PS. It was a bit awkward going to her house and meeting her dad, not as a customer anymore but as the gf's dad (her mom passed way from cancer a few years back).
It was even more weirder when my folks invited us and her dad and his gf to their house after a couple months of us dating. I kept thinking, what are my customers doing in my parents' house? :confuse:
Hope you enjoyed.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Ah. So that was the ( main ) question.
Oh, Wait – I still don’t see a question?
A couple of specifics here:
The initial discount offered was $2K – on a 3LT ( top option group \ package for a Corvette Coupe ) with MSRP in the $50K range, with the other options I wanted.
I simply, politely declined that price.
I made no counter offer.
I had told the salesperson that I would buy a 2007.
I told the salesperson that my preference was to buy it from that dealership.
But I made it clear that I did know what discounts were available from the other large Corvette dealers – and that I expected the discounts to gradually become greater as the model year progressed. ( They did. ) And I would buy from that salesperson if \ when they met ‘my number’ for a discount.
Salesperson did not NEED to send the follow-up emails, with current pricing.
But that worked well for me – as I tracked & compared the discounts – and I pulled the trigger when the time was right ( the discount was right ), for me.
( At the time, I could have received a somewhat higher discount from someplace like Kerbeck’s in Atlantic City. But not enough to justify buying ‘out-of-town’. And discounts for new Corvettes are even higher now. )
I ended up paying approx. $1,500 over invoice = $4,500 discount off MSRP. Is it considered ‘grinding’ to simply wait for quoted discounts to improve over time, as a model year evolves? Is it somehow considered ‘bad form’ to quietly wait until the discount = ‘my number’, and then buy?
I have detailed above the actual amount of the salesperson’s time spent on the deal – about 3 hours, including the 2 test drives. What amount of time is ‘typical’ for selling a vehicle with an MSRP over $50K?
I was honest & straightforward. I represented myself as a buyer. I did buy – from that dealer & salesperson.
What exactly do you ( anyone ) think that I should have done differently?
A: Yes, I did give top marks to the salesperson.
Now what is your main question????
- Ray
Salesperson seems happy, when I’ve seen them at the dealer - 2 or 3 times since the sale . . .
don't invite the ex-bf and guy (n) and guy (n+1) to the wedding, or even a pseudo bachelor party get together. once you're married, don't swap married life stories with the ex-bf or guy n, and n+1.
peace.
More so than people would have you believe.
So if the clerk at the coffee shop says "have a nice day" is he/she lying to you?
I don't see the clerk at the coffee shop proclaiming "I have your best interests at heart". Thats the key, if that wasn't said by many sales people here I wouldn't be bringing this up.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Actually we absolutley hate it. We would like to see everyone finance for 3 years. Why? Because it brings you back into the trade cycle quicker. If you finance short term you build equity at a quicker rate. More of your payment is going to principal. 80% of the time the guy that finances with no neg, no money down 36 months and comes back in at 18 months has equity or is even. The same guy finances for 60 or 72 under the same scenario and comes back in at 36 has negitive 80% of the time.
While I would not BUY a Chrysler for my personal drive, the vehicles have held up well in the first four years and 70k miles which is their life in our fleet.
As for me, in my personal ride. I am looking for the lowest cost per mile with a minimum of inconvenience. Generally, that is accomplished by purchasing a four year old vehicle with 35-50k miles and driving it until the wheels fall off. I can get away with that because I have a lot of good mechanic friends whi like working on older vehicles (and I dislike "high tech" vehicles).
not that you'll even get this, because it would go against what you think, and gosh forbid you are wrong, but here it goes anyways.
salespeople are there to help a customer get into the best car for their needs. their finances are not always black and white. sure, they fill out a credit application. but there are so many things that are not listed on a credit application that can affect whether a person can or cannot afford a car. so much so, that its impossible for the salesperson to be able to determine whether they can or cant. and in all honesty, i think it would be very rude for them to assume anything. there is a sort of trust that has to happen. a consumer is coming in to look at a car. the salesperson has to assume that the person is in sound mind, and has researched what they can/cannot afford, etc. to expect the salesperson to make that decision for them is just ludicrous.
does that mean they don't care about their customers or that they don't have their "best interests at heart" as you put it? no. but there has to be some element of responsibility on the consumer's part to make the appropriate decision regarding whether they can afford a car or not, and then up to the salesperson to get him/her the best car for their budget.
if that doesn't make sense, then there's nothing else i can say to make you see this side of the story. apparently, you don't want to...
-thene :sick:
Ok lets extend it to the entire population. More money invested means more money to lend. The secret to all of this is that money is actually created by investments. It is estimated that for every $1 thats put into a bank $4-5 is created and for every $1 removed $4-5 is destroyed.
OK, you have an econimics degree.
Tell me - who are the banks going to lend the money to - if everybody is spending less money on buying things. Who's going to buy Joe's stuff unless someone else is spending the $25000 you aren't
Equilibrium will soon be reached between goods produced and goods purchased, but it'll be at a level much lower level than it is now - and that means a lot of people will be out of jobs.
I just saw an ad for an upcoming documentary which already has widespread critical acclaim from film festivals and preview screenings. Some are calling it "the Super Size ME of Credit Debt"
"Maxed Out: Hard Times, Easy Credit and the Era of Predatory Lenders"
"When Hurricane Katrina ravaged America's Gulf Coast, it laid bare an uncomfortable reality-America is not only far from the world's wealthiest nation; it is crumbling beneath a staggering burden of individual and government debt. Maxed Out takes us on a journey deep inside the American debt-style, where everything seems okay as long as the minimum monthly payment arrives on time. Sure, most of us may have that sinking feeling that something isn't quite right, but we're told not to worry. After all, there's always more credit! Maxed Out shows how the modern financial industry really works, explains the true definition of "preferred customer" and tells us why the poor are getting poorer and the rich getting richer. By turns hilarious and profoundly disturbing, Maxed Out paints a picture of a national nightmare which is all too real for most of us."
Might be an interesting watch, although I hear it doesn't deal much with personal responsibility either (it looks more at what happens after debt begins to be incurred and the consequences, versus what happens before debt is incurred).
I doubt this is like the "Ultimate Driving Experience" events where you get to autocross the cars... probably just a short demo loop right? Should be fun anyway, all the big convertibles were already booked so I chose a Z4 Roadster 3.0i- It is great convertible weather here in NC.
Most of the appointments were gone when I logged in... is this something the local sales guys are going to have to deal with or do you think they'll have extra staff on hand for the test drives? It wouldn't be much fun for the local guy to have to ride around on test drives all day long when most everybody is there for the cause and the experience, and not to buy a car.
I agree with this but in reality how many times does this actually happen? I’m thinking it’s less than 15% of the time. This takes us to another of your statements, below.
80% of the time the guy that finances with no neg, no money down 36 months and comes back in at 18 months has equity or is even. The same guy finances for 60 or 72 under the same scenario and comes back in at 36 has negitive 80% of the time.
Using your number of 80%, this is by far the norm. So, if customers continue to come back every 36 months, compared to 18 months, what’s really wrong with this? I would think you could still make it through life with this kind of a turnover. Do you want us buyers to think car salesmen are greedy?
Note that I’m still not holding you responsible for how a customer chooses to manage their finances. If when you run their credit report and it comes back OK for the amount they want to finance, I say write it up.
However, if they can’t get a loan for that amount, which surely has to happen a fair number of times since people seem to have more and more negative equity, you obviously can’t sell them that car for the term they wanted. Maybe this would be a good time to say, “hey, why don’t you pay down the car you have for a while, then give me another shot at trying to help you?” Now, if the customer insists on wanting to buy a new car, show them a model they can afford, maybe even that same model at a longer term, and sleep soundly knowing that you tried.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
that was my main question.. if you gave the person top marks then you did your job..end of story..
You are correct, it does not happen very often. I was just posting that for the benifit of whoever it was that said we love it when some one signs a 5 or 6 year contract.
However, if they can’t get a loan for that amount, which surely has to happen a fair number of times since people seem to have more and more negative equity, you obviously can’t sell them that car for the term they wanted. Maybe this would be a good time to say, “hey, why don’t you pay down the car you have for a while, then give me another shot at trying to help you?”
We get more people who can't buy a car then can, the two biggest culprits are credit and negative equity. Here ls the problem when you try to help some consumers. It just so happens I had this happen two days ago so I will explain with a story.
On Tuesday I had a young man come in who had financed a couple of cars in the past, he kept one for 13 months and his current for 6. His current loan shows past due in his bureau I told him "You have bought two cars from us and I can sell you another one but it would not be in your best interest. Your current loan is past due so a prime lender will not finance you, a secondary lender will but your interest rate will double. You do not need to do that" What you need to do is get your loan current and keep it current for 12 consecutive months. Then you will be able to buy what ever your income at the time will allow.
He did not look at that as helping him, he got mad and made the stupidest comment that any consumer can make "Well you just don't want to sell me a car" Out of all the things people have said to me over the years that comment is with out a doubt the stupidest, and I have heard it more then once
I am sure that before the sun set that he was riding in a year newer car with less features at 18.99% rate. Allot of dealers go by the philosophy, well if we don't do it the next dealer will. But at least in 18 months when he will be back in my office asking why he needs money down to trade I can remeind him why. You just can't help some people.
BMW's attract wannabees and flakes as it is already.
I can see it now...back to back test drives.
What were they thinking?
Of course, it had to be the top of the line model and he went through our accessory sheet and added a lot of expensive items.
He lived in a very upscale neighborhood not far from the founder of this little software company.
He wanted to finance this car with nothing down and roll about 3000.00 of negative equity into the new loan.
Except, there wold be no new loan, he got turned down by Bank of America.
As I gently let him know this, he got mad, red inthe face and demanded to know why.
I asked him " How candid do you want me to be?"
He had, among other things, 120,000 in credit card debt, a 6500.00 house payment, two outstanding car loand, a boat payment and I forget what else.
All of his credit cards were maxed out.
He couldn't understand me until I finally told him...
" You appear to be one paycecks away from being bankrupt"
Oh, he got mad, grabbed his keys and blew out the door!
Four years later....
He appears at my desk.
" You don't remember me, do you?"
" Well, you look familiar"
" You once told me I was one paycheck away from a BK"
He went on to tell me he was so mad he was going to write a letter to our owner but after telling his wife what I had said, they sat up all night going over their finances and realized I was right.
He bought a car that day. His credit cards were paid in full, the boat had been sold and his credit was fine.
I am sure that before the sun set that he was riding in a year newer car with less features at 18.99% rate. Allot of dealers goe by the philosophy, well if we don't do it the next dealer will. But at least in 18 months when he will be back in my office asking why he needs money down to trade I can remeind him why. You just can't help some people.
the point is you tried to do the right thing and really help him.
there are people (like myself) that think you should be rewarded for doing that, rather than rewarded for making a sale that is helping to plant him deeper in the ground.
actually, it's what i personally expect someone like you to do if you are truly claiming to help the customer. it's not likely to help you make good money or be top dog with your management, and that's too bad. the system's fundamentally flawed.
at some level, we are humans and we should be looking out for one another and encouraged / supported in our jobs (no matter what that might be). maybe you wouldn't expect the same for yourself from others; i don't know.
maybe your only reward this time is the knowlege you did right by a person without the ability to do so for himself / herself.
BMW's attract wannabees and flakes as it is already.
I can see it now...back to back test drives.
What were they thinking?
Perhaps that it might be nice to do something for charity??
I've heard of this event and am sure that BMW arranges for the crowd - usually it's an outside marketing firm that handles it. It's done on an appointment basis and it gives folks an added incentive to go for a test drive.
Craig - you really seem to have taken a doom and gloom perspective to many things recently. Life is short - enjoy it and look for the bright side.
then the customer will find something else that better fits his needs. simple reality
Susan G. Komen
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What a joke.
I'd rather have the people in shorter term notes so they are back in the market sooner.
Yeah, maybe so. A lot going on lately.
I'm sure it is, indeed, a worthwhile cause. but it seems they could donate money without test drives.
If they bring in people (not regular salespeople) to go along on those rides, it would be a different story.
When I was a kid, I remember 24 months was the norm. I also remember some friends of my parents who bought a new Thunderbird. They had a WHOPPING 48 month loan on that one!
Craig - they could just donate the money and issue a press release and hopefully get some press in the industry media and perhaps the local TV stations at their US corporate location. The payback for both organizations isn't that great.
By having it spread across the country BMW, the dealers, and the foundation get tremendous press and BMW and their dealers associate themselves with a cause that is front of mind for many people. Even if folks don't participate in the event they remember that BMW did something productive for a cause they support and perhaps will come and buy a BMW in the future. And having those specially decaled BMW's on the road around the dealership for an entire day brings even greater attention to the tie-in and the cause. It's marketing and it works.
It's no different than the Odyssey being the official mini-van of Little League Baseball.
It may not sell a car today but it may sell many in the future.
I didn't know that
Odyssey and Little League
He did not look at that as helping him, he got mad and made the stupidest comment that any consumer can make "Well you just don't want to sell me a car" Out of all the things people have said to me over the years that comment is with out a doubt the stupidest, and I have heard it more then once....
I’m note blowing smoke here but I commend you for trying.
The only thing you did wrong was letting him get away. Once I try to help someone and I’m ignored I don’t feel I owe them anymore of my time. If it were me I would have sold him what ever the bank would have allowed him to bury himself in.
I am sure that before the sun set that he was riding in a year newer car with less features at 18.99% rate. Allot of dealers go by the philosophy, well if we don't do it the next dealer will.
There is no sense in letting someone else eat your lunch once you have given your best effort to save them.
After all, none of us expect you to be a saint you’re a car salesman. :shades: :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl