Stories from the Sales Frontlines

roadburner

Dad had a 1986 Mark VII LSC- the "Hot Rod Lincoln" that sported a fuel injected HO 5.0 liter from the Mustang, sport seats, and a firmer suspension. I loved that car. It was the last Lincoln that I could seriously see myself owning.

roadburner

Even Jay Leno has a Falcon Sprint in his collection.

DON'T remind me. I almost bought that car. It was a replica of one of the Falcons that Ford entered in the Rally Monte Carlo in 1963. It was nearly a dead ringer but it had an upgraded engine and a five speed manual box. My son found it on Bring A Trailer and begged me to buy it. At only $26,500 I was sorely tempted:

http://bringatrailer.com/2012/04/10/bat-exclusive-monte-style-1963-ford-falcon-s- - print/

By the time my son talked me into calling the seller I learned that Leno had bought it:

http://bringatrailer.com/2012/07/30/bat-success-story-1963-ford-falcon-goes-to-j- - ay-leno/

I'm STILL kicking myself...

graphicguy

RB...My late Father had a Mark VII, too (or was it a Mark VIII....don't remember). I do remember taking him to the dealership to pick it up after he had some warranty work done.

I saw an LSC in their showroom. I would have popped for one of those, except at the time, I still couldn't see myself in a Lincoln.

Maybe the added years are the thing that makes one look at Lincolns in a favorable light.

sterlingdog

Thanks for that link---very interesting reading plus additional links.

Richard

roadburner

Maybe the added years are the thing that makes one look at Lincolns in a favorable light.

Funny thing; I was 30 when he bought the LSC, and I STILL loved it- not enough to pick it over a 635CSi of the same vintage, but I did love it. In contrast, at the ripe old age of 56 not a single new Lincoln appeals to me in the slightest.

fezo

On they back from Ohio we spot this new Lincoln and there's nothin of it that speaks Lincoln. At least Caddys still look like Caddys no matter what they do with design.

BTW- there is someone uponE 66th Street - a block or two from Sloan that has a red Gremlin. If your idea of a city car is one where you do t care what happens to it this would qualify. I've passed it a hundred times.

ohenryx

Speaking of junky cars, a guy at work who spent big bucks restoring a 65 T-bird now wants to find an old 70s Chevette for a weekend cruiser. He said that he owned several when he was young and poor and now wants another.

So far every one he has found was owned by an illegal immigrant living in a motel and had no title.


It's not hard to obtain a title here in Texas, at least if the car was never reported stolen. Takes a few months, though.

If you live in a small town, just go by the police station with the VIN and ask nicely, they will tell you if it was ever reported stolen. If you live in a big city, do NOT do that. They'll likely lock you up for bothering them.

ohenryx

Yeah I know back then you really had to do some serious stuff to an engine to get it past the 50-60K mark and 100K was usually the end of the life of an engine.


A lot of people seem to think that, but I have heard different stories. Back around 1992 (21 years ago) I was conversing with the used car sales manager at a fairly large new car dealership. He was over 60 at that time, and had been in the car business for 4 decades.

According to him, rolling the speedometer back was so common "back in the day" that it gave people a very bad, completely inaccurate idea of just how long a car would last. Perhaps those cars which did not change hands seemed to last longer because the true mileage was known?

I do remember, back in the 70's when my brother was working at a dealership, he talked about this guy who traveled around from dealership to dealership doing nothing but rolling back speedometers on all of their trade-ins.

isellhondas

Nope, it's true.

Valve jobs were common around the 50,70,000 mile mark and if the car made it to 100,000 miles it was pretty tired. Ring jobs and rebores are unheard of today but back in "the day" they were commonplace.

When I was about 17, I actually watched a "clock man" at work. I had a buddy who worked as a gopher part time in a small used car lot. I was gong to give him a ride home one afternoon and I watched a guy with a small briefcase walk from car to car.

He would consult a list the manager had given him and he would get under the dash and five minutes later, the car had been "clocked".

Some cars were easier to do than others or so I heard.

At the time it wasn't illegal and I heard it was commonplace.

Today, a lot wouldn't think of doing this. The laws are strict and the chances of getting caught with all of the odometer statements and Car Faxes, a person would be a fool to do this. Also with the new electronic speedometers I don't know it it's even possible.

I've head from old timers that they had travelling "battery guys" radio guys" and odometer guys". The battery guys installed cheap "rebuilt" car batteries that they charged five or ten dollars for. The radio guys would replace the minimum amount of tubes (usually with used ones) to get the old radios to work. They charged 5.00 to "fix" any radio.

These guys worked the local "Auto Rows" kinda like the Dent Wizard guys do today!

oldfarmer50

"...let me know if you can find one of these..."

Since you didn't show a picture of the whole car I assume that you are looking for an old man like "ED" who is sitting in it.

You should be able to find a ton of old guys here. (dang, where are my emotorcons!)

oldfarmer50

"...that one looks in nice shape too..."

The leather on the driver's seat looks a little cracked but for that price you could drive it for a year or two and when the first expensive electronic gizmo breaks you could leave on the side of the road and walk.

oldfarmer50

"...anyone here ever owned one..."

A guy at work has a restored 64 Falcon that look pretty good. He's an Armenian who immigrated via Syria in 1970. Maybe it reminded it of the cars of his youth.

oldfarmer50

"...anyone here ever owned one..."

A guy at work has a restored 64 Falcon that looks pretty good. He's an Armenian who immigrated via Syria in 1970. Maybe it reminded it of the cars of his youth.

houdini1

I remember seeing a 60's Falcon not too long ago. I was totally surprised at how big it looked.

A college girl friend of mine had one that she just let me keep most of the time. It was also a pale green and was a tough little car.

ohenryx

Back around 1971, I owned a 1965 Falcon convertible. Briefly. I loved the convertible, but had all kinds of trouble with the car. Not knocking all Falcons, just that particular one, which had been mistreated.

And the '65 model year was a big change from '64 and earlier.

abacomike

I had to go into my trunk and get the wheel lock key out. So I pulled up the bottom floor of the trunk and I see - what looks like a battery - adjacent to the spare tire. But I know I have one under the hood. So I asked the service rep at the dealership what that black looking metallic thing was in my trunk. He tells me it is the battery the computer uses to start the car. It seems that the 2nd battery has only one use - to start up the engine when ECO/START/STOP is in use.

Go figure - 2 batteries. I was wondering how the engine operates with all those stops and starts. Now I know.

cdnpinhead

"It was the last Lincoln that I could seriously see myself owning."

Interesting. The '00 LS was the first Lincoln I saw myself owning -- had it for 13 years and drove it daily for 9. It was the only American-made car I ever owned, and it's likely to be my last. The last year I drove it regularly I took it up to Alaska and the Yukon, and it did fine. Did have to replace the shocks when I got back, but 115K miles on a set of shocks isn't bad.

Since then, Lincoln has lost its way, much like Acura.

I currently own an Acura TSX. Can I pick 'em or what? However, I've only got 80K miles on it, and it'll easily run another 150K miles with little or no drama.

driver100

the one I put $4K worth of engine replacement with the assurance that everything else was fine

We are glad you are a survivor...keep it up.

The thing about that $4000 is to know when to hold them and when to fold them....and I don't even play cards.

We have talked about used vs. new a few times so my only comment is, I'll try one fairly major repair, but after two I would rather cut my losses, bite the bullet, and go for a new car (or at least newer car with a warranty).

driver100

. Has anyone here ever owned one?

My older brother bought one...I think a 62. We called it a gutless wonder then, by today's standards it would be even more gutless.

I just checked, they had a 144 cubic inch engine with 85 hp...that explains a lot.

driver100

I have been trying to sell my older friends 88 Caprice wagon. He wants $1000 and won't take any less for it. He says for any less it isn't worth it to him because it is good for storage, and a storage shed would cost $500.

There isn't much action on it. One guy offered $700. He wouldn't take it.

How much does anyone think it is worth?

I found these 3 for sale. Check out the cheapest one, only $1895 and it has 31K miles? That would make a nice car for your fleet.
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-1988-Chevrolet-Caprice-Classic-Wagon-t48242

driver100

He would consult a list the manager had given him and he would get under the dash and five minutes later, the car had been "clocked".

The numbers were on those wheels that went round. You were supposed to be able to tell if a car had been tampered with by holding a match book under the numbers...it they weren't perfectly lined up the car had been played with.

jayrider

My uncle sold Volvos, Jaguars, and MGs in the 50's through the 90's. Up until 1970, every used car he took in was spun back to zero miles.

snakeweasel

Actually it's true, cars back then really needed some major work done within the first 75K miles or so. Cars today are so much better than they were in the 60's.

Perhaps those cars which did not change hands seemed to last longer because the true mileage was known?

My theory is that cars that do not changes hands seem to last longer because the majority are owned by people who know that they will keep them for a while and take care of them. Cars that change hands are usually owned by those who know that they will trade out in a few years and may not take care of them. I once knew on guy who bought a new car every year, he never changed the oil on his cars because he knew they would be gone before the lack of oil changes took it's toll.

snakeweasel

Since you didn't show a picture of the whole car I assume that you are looking for an old man like "ED" who is sitting in it.

1.) Never "assume" if you do you make an ...... well you know the rest.

2.) That was the whole car.

verdugo

Richard,

One more message welcoming you back. Looking forward to your posts.

Hope your wife is feeling better.

A.

mako1a

I was selling a late 70s or early 80s Blazer. While cleaning the insides there was dust inside the glass (plastic) on the speedo. I took it off and out comes the odometer with it with only 4 screws.

While cleaning it the phone rings. Guy wants to come see the Blazer who asks "how many miles are on it?" I said I'm holding the odo unit in my hand...how many miles would you like to have on it? He said I'll be right there. He bought it on the spot and even cleaned the plastic and put it back in.

oldfarmer50

"...with the new electronic speedometers I don't know if it's even possible..."

Oh, it's possible. I have seen several times on the local Craigslist people offering to "recalibrate" speedometers. One outright offered to turn them back with a computer program.

I doubt a licensed dealer would risk it but the "open title" car flippers would turn back the clock, throw some head sealer in the motor and be gone in the wind by the time the car blew up.

Every "by owner" car I consider on CL I do a search on the phone number. Sometimes I find 10-20 cars that they "own".

nyccarguy

Where there is a will to break the law ($350), there is a way to have your digital odometer rolled back. People go over on their lease miles & do it all the time. Although when you do turn a leased car in, you do sign an odometer disclosure statement. Too many people live by the old saying: "It ain't a crime if you don't get caught." Personally, I like to sleep at night.

oldfarmer50

How much is it worth?

How much would you pay for this 88 Caprice?
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/3969903253.html

The old man I bought my 88 van from also wanted $1000 firm. I offered $900 and when he balked I said $950. Still no go. I left but an hour later he called and said he'd take $900. Sold.

That wagon has less rust but mine had a nice Macco paint job that is only now peeling off 4 years later.

The problem is 80s Detroit cars were built pretty badly and even though I own two, they aren't my vehicle of choice.

It's tough to get a car that runs for under a thousand but in the end, a car is only worth whst someone is willing to pay.

explorerx4

Vintage BMW or Lincoln? Can't decide?

Both!

oldfarmer50

"...where there's the will..."

The guy I mentioned with the 65 Thunderbird found that out the hard way. He bought it from a guy in Boston. It ran smooth as silk, no noise, no smoke. He didn't even test drive it.

He had it trucked back to NY and the first thing he did was change the oil. He started it up to a cloud of smoke. The seller had doctored the motor with STP or some such gunk to conceal a motor in need of an expensive overhaul.

oldfarmer50

"...can't decide..."

If you want to try something crazy, you'd probably like this:

http://www.pjsautoworld.com/1970cars/1977%20Lincoln%20Continental%20Mark%20V%20.- htm

I could actually see myself rolling up to cruise night in that.

driver100

I once knew on guy who bought a new car every year, he never changed the oil on his cars because he knew they would be gone before the lack of oil changes took it's toll.

Was his name abacomike?

sterlingdog

"I was totally surprised at how big it looked."

Me, too. We used to think of them as little cars----compared to the old boats of the 50's and 60's.

Richard

driver100

I wouldn't want that Caprice at any price....how do you climb into it (picture below).

Your guy said he would take $900 for a car he valued at $1000 . My friend won't take a penny less than $1000...he'll hold out - I know he would rather have the old car than the money, he is a hoarder!

I agree, a car is only worth what someone will pay, but he doesn't see it that way. I know it is faulty thinking but he put $400 worth of tires on it and did a $400 tune up and he thinks it is worth all of that plus more.

sterlingdog

Thanks! It's good to be back. The wife is some better now. Thanks for asking.

Richard

driver100

How would you get in it?

sterlingdog

Beautiful vehicle! Wonder what they are asking?

Richard

roadburner

Vintage BMW or Lincoln? Can't decide?

I do remember the diesel Mark VII. Ford sold a lot of the replacement BMW pieces for less than BMW charged.

As an aside, when I was on the national board of BMW CCA I was the liaison to the "Special Interest Groups" that catered to a particular model, series or vintage of BMW. The person who ran the 524TD group was a very pleasant retired gentleman who was worth several million dollars(he never spoke of his wealth, I learned of that from another member). Every few months he would call and discuss BMWs and other cars for up to an hour. He was a really cool guy, and he absolutely loved the 524td.

isellhondas

Now, that's funny..." How many miles would you LIKE it to have!"

I once had a VW Bug and the speedo got noisy like it had a bad bearing.

It was easy to pull out. Open the front, take off that cover, loosten three screws unscrew the cable and in three minutes I had it out.

A local speedo shop wanted a lot to overhaul it so I went to a junkyard that specialized in VW's. He directed me to a large box full of them and told me that I could take my pick for 5.00!

I think I picked the cleanest and nicest one without regard to mileage at the time. That old bug wasn't worth much anyway!

isellhondas

Not to nick pick but the "big change" in those early Falcons happened in 1964. Not much difference between those and the '65's.

The 1960-63's were the first series.

isellhondas

Yeah, I have heard the electronic speedos can be clocked too but WOW, the risk a person would be taking to do this in this day and age with all of the odometer statements, Car Faxes, old service records etc.

One way to detect a "curbstoner" is to say..." Hi, I'm calling on the car you have advertised" If he responds by saying "which one?" that's a pretty good sign.

The restrictions and laws have made life much more difficult for curbstoners anymore!

driver100

Hi, I'm calling on the car you have advertised"

That's clever....good one!

With the electronics today wouldn't they know an odometer was tampered with when they put your key in the computer?

graphicguy

OK...this is scary. I'm now pulling an Oldfarmer and scanning Craigs list cars looking for a 2nd one.

CDN...while I don't disagree about Lincoln having lost their way (again). At least their newer offerings don't look half bad. Still won't wander into their showroom, though.

Acura? A whole other story entirely. It took owning a toublesome Audi for me to appreciate what Acuras do and what they represent. Something tells me I'll be out of the Audi within 12 mos (which is about a year sooner than I had planned). I've always liked TLs....even more than the BMWs. RB, NYC and kyfdx will consider me a heretic with that statement, but so be it.

But for now, I'm on a quest for a high mile used TL, or a low mile used Lincoln Mark VIII. Budget is $3K.

fezo

I saw Mike's mention on wheel locks. Certainly for me what a useless feature. I figure on any of my cars if they want the wheels let them take the whole car. That's what insurance is for.

A friend of mine up in Wappinger's Falls, NY, did the pads and two rotors in my Mazda and accidentally kept the key for the lock. Mailed it right back to my house but we were in DC for 6 days. Good thing there were no wheel issues.

I am thinking of buying four regular lug nuts and replacing the locked ones.

oldfarmer50

"...scanning Craigslist..."

Ha ha, I've created a monster!

verdugo

Hi all,

I'm going to be leasing a car and I'd like to ask you for your advice since I've never done a lease.

We need a second car for my wife to commute to work (7 miles) and I like the idea of an electric car. However, I don't like the idea of owning an electric car just yet (Tesla is out of the budget.)

I'm looking at the Ford C-Max. I can get X-plan pricing and they have a lot of incentives at the moment. Throw in the fact that I'm looking at a 2 year lease with only 10k miles, and it should be relatively cheap.

What are the things I need to watch out for? The things that I need to ask?

Thanks in advance.

ohenryx

I have had the x-plan for a very long time (10 or 12 years ?), and I have never once used it. During that time I have purchased two new Fords, and both times I got a better deal without the x-plan. I think the only time the x-plan is useful is if the model you're after is in high demand and selling at or near MSRP. And even then the dealer has the right to refuse the x-plan.

houdini1

I think it has a trap door underneath...also handy for extra braking power (if you have fairly long legs) ala Fred Flintstone.

explorerx4

Through my wife, we can get X-plan. I have used it on occasion.
You get see the price online, so you a least have a ballpark selling price.
Last time I used it, 2009, there was a limit on the doc fee(an old favorite topic here) they could charge.
Beware of 'We will give you X-plan price'. That means they want to charge the full doc fee.
Ford usually has some 'Private Offer' deals(request a brochure).
I will have to say when we bought her 2009 Escape, she remarked, 'You could just tell they hated handing those keys over'.
With any lease, you want to put down the least money as possible.
Have fun shopping!