Stories from the Sales Frontlines

explorerx4

BTW, Good to hear from you silverwoof.

driver100

..also handy for extra braking power (if you have fairly long legs) ala Fred Flintstone.

lol............

driver100

What are the things I need to watch out for? The things that I need to ask?

Explorers point is excellent...$0 down probably works out best. Though there is a case for making a downpayment too...though not a great one. Just reduces monthly payout and will probably reduce overall cost as less money borrowed.

Be sure to have an idea how much the car should cost per month and check the buyout price too...you may like the car or want to buy it and sell it privately yourself. I think you can get a ballpark figure from Edmunds Lease Calculator; http://www.edmunds.com/calculators/car-lease.html
Numbers can really be played around with when it comes to leasing.

Leasing is the way to go in certain situations and your case sounds like an ideal one for leasing. Good luck!

bolivar

My first car was a 60 Falcon, in late 65, 4 door, green. I'm not sure about mileage, probably some where around 60,000 miles. That car was a perfect example of how fast cars 'faded' in those days. The turn signal arm would fall out. The valves were noisy and oil leaked around the gasket. I knew nothing about working on cars, but my friend did. He pulled the cover and adjusted the valves and quieted it down. That was a very cold winter around here, and it would not start when it hit about 10 degrees. When it went 10 below, I had to just let it sit for a couple of days until it warmed up.

The low oil pressure light would come on at idle when warmed up. I think I went to 40W oil, but it still came on. I got my first job and traded it in a few months. A couple of guys I worked with bought and sold on the side and I traded for a 64 Impala with less than 20,000 miles. He mentioned to me they noticed the oil light before they were able to flip it. He wasn't upset, he said they had a mechanic that worked weekends for them that dropped the crank and put new main bearings in it and stopped this problem.

In the few months I had the 64 (My Uncle Sam wanted me to help with his war in Vietnam), it had to have a front seal replaced in the Powerglide tranny. Cars did not make it to 100,000 without major problems in those days.

First new car was a 68 Torino (Ford Fairlane). It had major problems with the brakes, power steering pump filed, replacement failed. It had a 390ci, but only a 2 barrel carb. You had to get new plugs into it about ever 20,000 miles to stop the misses.

Next was a new 72 Corvette. It also had major problems, AC switch, right window seal, rear end gears replaced, wiper motor failed on a major road trip, tranny gasket seal around dip stick failed covering bottom and back of the car in fluid.

New 1978 (79?) Chevy Malibu had an exhaust leak, dealer broke a bolt off in the exhaust manifold fixing it. Took a couple of weeks to get a new one, the dealer did loan me an old pickup to drive, a 454 motor. It took a lot of gas.

The above cars only had the 12 month/12,000 mile warranty of the period, and these things all happened under warranty. As the Malibu aged, it started to use a quart of oil every 500 miles or so. I heard about valve guide seal problems in Chevy small blocks, and my guess this is what the problem was. I don't think it was rings, the car ran fine, it just started to use a lot of oil at under 40,000 miles.

The later new cars I bought, the manufactors seemed to improve quality control a lot. They also went to 36 months/ 36,000 miles and I think they improved tooling to just build better stuff.

robr2

Through my wife, we can get X-plan. I have used it on occasion.
You get see the price online, so you a least have a ballpark selling price.
Last time I used it, 2009, there was a limit on the doc fee(an old favorite topic here) they could charge.

We used X Plan to buy our 2011 Explorer. We got a good price and all the available incentives and the Ford mandated $75 doc fee. The sales rep was perfectly happy doing X Plan as it was almost no work for him and the dealership got to punch an easy sale.

graphicguy

Did X-Plan on the (then) newly released '05 Mustang GT. It took 3 different trips to 3 different dealers to find a dealer who would honor it, but they did.

I had to order the car since, at the time, they would sell every Mustang that was delivered within a couple of hours of it hitting their showroom.

Sold that Mustang about a year later for a little more than I paid for it. That doesn't happen very often.

oldfarmer50

"...how fast car's "faded"..."

Maybe as someone suggested, it was less fade and more funny stuff with the odometer. Maybe you had 160,000 not 60,000 miles on it.

I bought my Ford F-150 from a nice old guy with 91k on the odometer. I asked him point blank "is that 91k or 191k?"(the dial only went up to 99,999). With a straight face he told me it was the truck's true milage.

Years later I learned about Car Fax and did a lookback at my truck. There was a milage entry 4 years before I bought it for 161,000. Grandpa was a liar.

oldfarmer50

With all my fancy talk about buying a Lincoln Mark VIII I knew that since the nice low milage ones were all in Florida I wouldn't have to spend any REAL money. Now, look what shows up close to home:

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/4059179551.html

It's like someone decided to call my bluff and bring a Florida car up here for me.

Graphicguy, can you help me out here?

oldfarmer50

"...the risk a person would be taking..."

But that's the nature of these "open title" curbstoners. Their name isn't on the title so when ( like me) a buyer finds he's been lied to, there is no one to go after. Same with doctoring a car to run well until the crook gets your money. You can't find him to complain about your blown head gasket.

Those kinds of individuals have as much in common with honest dealers as bank robbers have with bank tellers.

stickguy

if you really want one, make an offer. Not likely to find another one that clean up by you!

and it certainly has the provenance of a Fla car! Unless he went to a lot of trouble to fake naples stickers. Interesting that he showed pictures of them, not the engine or interior! Guess you can tell what sells in upstate NY.

snakeweasel

I might have told this story before but here it goes.

Back in the 50's and 60's my dad had an 80 mile round trip commute. He had a 56 Ford my parents got brand new and drove to and from work and on weekends for something like 10 years (you do the math). When it came time to trade it in the odometer read around 50K miles back when odometers went from 99,999.9 to zero again.

During the sale the salesman if their 10 year old car actually had 150k on it and my parents expressly said that the car did not have 150k miles on it. This went on a few times but the deal went through.

As my parents were getting into thier new car the salesman asked one last time if the car had 150K miles and that since the deal was done they could tell the truth. My parents repeated that it didn't have 150k miles then added that the car actually had 250K miles on it.

driver100

It's like someone decided to call my bluff and bring a Florida car up here for me.

Even has a vinyl roof....you'll be all set, now you can drive it down to Florida and retire.

stickguy

that one does look nice. If I were Farmer, I would sell off the bomber fleet (Caddy, Corvette) and put the money into the Lincoln.

oldfarmer50

Driver and Stick:

Don't think I haven't thought of doing EXACTLY what you both suggest!

gogiboy

Good grief, I miss a week and both Richard and Snakeweasel return. Glad both of you are back.

I second some other sentiments about Richard's new forum name (I prefer nom de plume), but maybe that's because my forum name is also derived from a beloved family pet.

Lord, now I have to find some more precious time to get on this site.

Gogiboy

stickguy

just do it man. 1 nice luxo car instead of 2 old beaters. You want it. you deserve it. Just go do it.

wlbrown9

I got a second hand '64 Falcon about 1970. IIRC the air cleaner cover had 156ci Special. Don't remember the hp rating...not much. I also remember it also had a 2 speed automatic. Very basic but ran okay most of the time.

isellhondas

At least your parents didn't lie. " It does NOT have 150,000 miles on it!

I didn't know it was even possible to drive a 1956 Ford 250,000 miles! How many engines?

Probably a good example of why they decided to add that extra digit to the odometers.

I once heard of a guy who preformed a miracle by driving his 1972 Chevy Vega 120,000 miles in three years. For those who know Vegas that is an impossible feat. They were shot at 50,000 miles.

So, with 120,000 it started running poorly. He took it to the Chevy Dealer and got a call saying it needed a new engine and that Chevy would pay for it!

Huh??

After having the work done he realized they didn't know the odometer had rolled over since he kept the car looking like new.

That was fine with him!

isellhondas

I have no idea what a 156 ci Special meant.

I don't think they were using the 200 Cubic Inch engines in 1964...maybe...It had to be a 170. Ford never made a 156.

Not bad cars at all and so easy to work on.

snakeweasel

The big reason for the car making 250K was the fact that my dads brother owned a service station. So taking it to him to keep it going wasn't a big issue. I do remember many a trip there. Plus free towing if needed. I can't say how much of the car was original when they sold it.

robr2

I once heard of a guy who preformed a miracle by driving his 1972 Chevy Vega 120,000 miles in three years. For those who know Vegas that is an impossible feat. They were shot at 50,000 miles...So, with 120,000 it started running poorly. He took it to the Chevy Dealer and got a call saying it needed a new engine and that Chevy would pay for it...Huh??...After having the work done he realized they didn't know the odometer had rolled over since he kept the car looking like new.

I'm skeptical especially since the warranties back in those days was 12 months/12K miles.

isellhondas

Well, I know the guy who owned that Vega.

Chevy got so much bad press that they extended the warranties on those on a case by case basis.

The early Vegas didn't even have cast iron cylinder liners. Those were added later and on the rebuilds, they would bore them and install the liners. They held up better then. Still, junky engines!

Rumor was that Chevy planned for those to be 50,000 miles engines. They had an exchange program ready to go where a customer could have a replacement engine installed the same day for not much money.

But then the Pinto arrived so Chevy kept their mouths shut about that.

driver100

These were the engines in the 66 to 70 Falcon;

Engine 144 cu in (2.4 L) Thriftpower I6
170 cu in (2.8 L) Thriftpower I6
200 cu in (3.3 L) 120 hp (89 kW) Thriftpower I6[15]
260 cu in (4.3 L) Windsor V8
289 cu in (4.7 L) Windsor V8
302 cu in (4.9 L) Windsor V8

isellhondas

Really? I thought the 144 was dumped in 1962?

robr2

Well, I know the guy who owned that Vega.

Well your original post said "I heard of a guy..." so that's why I considered it "one of those stories."

isellhondas

I didn't want Chevy coming back on him after all of these years if I said I "knew" a guy....but I did!

isellhondas

Driver, it looks like we're both wrong.

I checked a couple of sources and learned that 1964 was the final year for the 144 which surprised me.

The 170 came out in 1961 and it was so much peppier that few people went with the 144. I can't even remember seeing a post '62 with a 144 but I guess they made some!

driver100

Isell, check the boxes on the right side on wikipedia regarding the Falcon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_%28North_America%29

It makes for some interesting reading, but they have the 144 listed up to 1970. They probably offered it but not too many would buy it.

Check the 70 1/2 Falcon, it looks more like a Torino!

driver100

Isell, did you know all the questions about 60s music? Ever wonder what the real words are to Louie Louie? I saw the Kinks singing it on a PBS Pops show and I was curious. So, here are the lyrics if you are curious....hard to believe....

http://www.lyricsondemand.com/onehitwonders/louielouielyrics.html

kyfdx

The Kinks?

The Kingsmen did Louie Louie.. it was their only hit.

snakeweasel

In reality Richard Berry did "Louie Louie" which was a small regional hit when released. The Kingsmen just re-recorded it.

kyfdx

True... but, I didn't think he mistook The Kinks for Richard Berry... ;-)

driver100

True... but, I didn't think he mistook The Kinks for Richard Berry.

You guys are good (kyfdx and snake). You were right on it, and that was interesting that although the Kingsmen weren't the first to do it, their recording became the big hit. I also didn't realize they only had one hit.

I had no idea what the words were until I checked the lyrics. It is pretty well a bunch of words put together...they don't make much sense. The Kingsmen were fun to watch though...they put on quite a show on the PBS special, along with Paul Revere and the Raiders....it's not as much fun watching Miley Sirus twerking -that is kind of painful

They have the original Kingsmen on youtube...but I like the present day guys better. Some things are better with age. (Kingsmen from PBS Special)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig9EzHkEW7I

graphicguy

oldfarmer...so let me get this straight, you want me to fly down to FL. Pick up a Lincoln that's been driven by some old geezer. Spend no more than $3K on it. And then drive it back to you?

Does that about sum it up?

fezo

Funny thing about that. Paul Revere and the Raiders were both from the same Washington state area and also recorded Louie Louie and released it. Obviously the Kingsmen had the hit with it but PRR had a much more lasting career.

oldfarmer50

"...does that about sum it up?..."

LOL no! That last Mark VIII I posted was up here in upstate NY. Since it originally came from Florida and had low milage, it was everything I want. Being right next door left me no excuse not to go look at it.

I was hoping you would shoot over here and scoop it up for your own to save me from myself. NY isn't THAT far from you.

isellhondas

Driver, I guess different sources have different information. I seriously doubt the 144 engines were available after 1964.

I don't recall seeing one after 1962 but they may have been some special order thing or something. The question begs...WHY? They couldn't cost much less and they wouldn't get better gas mileage I wouldn't think

I do remember those 1970 1/2 "swan song" Falcons. Not many of them!

driver100

"Paul Revere and the Raiders were both from the same Washington state area and also recorded Louie Louie and released it."

I am learning lots of interesting stuff these days. I listened to the Paul Revere version on youtube;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReNnxaL_0

I think it didn't catch on because you can make out the words. I read the words were knotty so they made them indecipherable, but the words are so harmless they mean almost nothing.

driver100

"I don't recall seeing one after 1962 but they may have been some special order thing or something. The question begs...WHY?"

Isell, once again you are right on! Wikepedia made a mistake when they said the 144 was available until 1970...I'd send in a correction if I knew how.

In another Wikipedia article discussing Ford engines it says the 144 cu in engine was out of production by 1964.

"The 144 cu in (2.4 L) I-6 engine was first introduced in the 1960 Ford Falcon. The 144c.i. was made from 1960 through 1964 and averaged 90 hp (67 kW) during the production run."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Straight-6_engine

This gutless engine was only used until 64 and wasn't in too many cars;
This engine was used in:

1960 - 1964 Ford Falcon
1960 - 1964 Ford Ranchero
1960 - 1964 Mercury Comet
1961 - 1964 Ford E-Series

The driver rule about these kinds of things is, it doesn't cost much more to buy the larger engine anyway. If they are putting together engines you might as well go with the larger stronger one...most of the cost is in just making the engine itself. For a few dollars more you get a larger, stronger engine that will last a lot longer and give you better performance.

*****We are off for 10 days to Budapest, Prague, Vienna. We should have wi-fi but I don't expect to check in too often, hopefully there will be lots to see. NYC, you don't have to try to track me down.

Kirstie_H

It's just about the BEST song for an amateur band to play, as well.
1. The crowd usually loves it, and it gets them up dancing. Anyone can dance to that song - you don't need to have any "moves."
2. Three chords and a cloud of dust. The challenge in playing it is not to fall asleep.
3. If you mess up the lyrics, no one knows.

driver100

3. If you mess up the lyrics, no one knows.

Those sound like good reasons, especially #3 lol.(in fact I guess you could add, messing up the lyrics probably makes it better)

I like singing along with it but it is just made up words that sound similar...I always liked the song but didn't have a clue what it was about.

isellhondas

Louie Louie was recorded by several groups and is a mainstay at any "oldies" dance.

The Kingsmen may not have been the first but it was their hit that made the Top 40.

Like a lot of promising groups of the time, they were a One Hit Wonder.

A friend tried to get me on a trivia question last night but I knew the answer.

What was the rebuttal song to Eve of Destruction and who did it?

P.S. The Kinks first big hit? Tired of Waiting.

houdini1

"Let The Good Times Roll" by Willie and the Optimists". (smile)

isellhondas

Nope!

In 1965 when Eve of Destruction was a hit, some radio stations banned it from being played.

abacomike

Like a lot of promising groups of the time, they were a One Hit Wonder.

Speaking of 1-hit wonders, do you remember "In The Summertime by Mongo Jerry? I have that song on a 45 rpm record.

kyfdx

I saw The Kinks in concert, twice.. .in the late '70s...

Ray Davies jumped off the stage and shook my hand!! ;-)

kyfdx

"In The Summertime by Mongo Jerry?

I think it's Mungo Jerry....

roadburner

One of my favorite bands is Material Issue- a Power Pop trio that had several hits on the college and alternative charts in the early '90s.
Here's a great live performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtTdE-OEJ4
I know the bass player Ted Ansani- he later went on to produce his own album "Throttle and Pistons" as The Ted Ansani Project- a few of the songs are car-themed.

roadburner

was my Jr. High sweetheart; apparently the experience didn't scar her psyche too much:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6NB1xHG8JU

abacomike

I know the bass player Ted Ansani- he later went on to produce his own album "Throttle and Pistons" as The Ted Ansani Project- a few of the songs are car-themed.

Speaking of knowing rock stars and band members, when I was head of school in California, Lee Lochnagne's kid went to my school. He is trumpeter for the group Chicago - real nice guy and very friendly. John McVey's youngest daughter also went to my school. Did not know him as well, though (Fleetwood Mac founding member).

Most of the rock stars I knew from school were very down to earth and also non- assuming, as we're the TV stars and movie stars I knew.