Stories from the Sales Frontlines

stickguy

don't need a program to do that. Ebay does it for you. Up to your max bid of course.

isellhondas

Between the head bolt/gasket problem and the horribly expensive to fix oil leak Cadillac blew it on the Northstar.

And this happened when the last thing they needed was another major hit to their reputation.

Cadillac HAD the luxury car market and they gave it away forever.

isellhondas

I'm not surprised that Aurora had those oil leaks since it used a smaller version of the Northstar.

isellhondas

I'm not saying you're wrong but I think you may focus more on MILES than CONDITION.

I can understand why you don't see the value but anyone who knows Hondas and how long they run would feel differently.

Usually when a Honda dies it's the result of neglect and even when neglected they just keep running and running well. They rarely leak or burn oil and the engines are silky smooth with 250,000 miles.

That old Riviera, unless it's REAL old will have GM's wonderful 3800 engine.

A great engine that will blow intake gaskets and leak oil like the Exxon Valdez when miled up (from experience) but I would go far enough to say the 3800 is probably the best engine GM has ever produced.

Of course, since it came out in it's original form in 1962 they have had a lot of time to get it right!

oldfarmer50

"...3800 is probably the best engine GM ever made..."

That's something we agree on. The only fault in that engine was the intake manifold gasket problem of the mid to late 90s. My 1991 Olds didn't have it, my son's 1998 Buick did. My saintly mechanic fixed his for under $500 but others have paid $800 or more.

Another flub by GM that they wouldn't take responsibility for.

tjc78

A lot of the 3800s intake problems are the result of Dexcool as well. Too long of an interval between changes and it can actually eat away the gaskets.

snakeweasel

Good to see you again too.

Our dog got attacked by a coyote and needed to have some surgery. But at her advanced age (she was 15) the vet said she wouldn't survive it.

As for the rag top, we still have it. Since mine is my daily drive I have a lot more miles on it, I have a good chance of hitting 80K on it by months end. Since we bought it 4.5 years ago with close to 19K on it I figure we put about 1,150 miles on it a month. And considering we used it on a few trips, one to South Dakota and Colorado and one or two to Branson, MO I am probably doing about a thousand miles a month on it. So I plan on having it several more years.

It still runs very well and has given me no problems.

snakeweasel

People just can't believe that a well maintained car can be a better car at 170K than a neglected one at 80K.

It's not really that but the fact that even a well maintained 170K car can turn into a money pit very quickly. Not to mention that a car that runs very well can still be hiding a lot of problems.

Also, once in awhile a V-6 Honda can lose a transmission.

Many years ago I had a neighbor who had a Honda and lost his transmission at 140 miles (that's not a typo he had the car less than a couple of weeks).

graphicguy

Oldfarmer...the dealer may have said 159K miles, and I heard 155K miles. I doubt they would puposely flub on the odo miles while telling me that the odo is wrong. It is the 3.2L V6. As Isell says, drivetrain is still smooth as silk, as well as strong.

I understand your feelings. I lean more towards Isell's way of thinking. In my experience, if you find a 13 year old Chevy (just for example) with 170K miles on it, and it's still running, the driving experience is way different than what I had on that Acura (or any well cared for Honda product for that matter). I'm betting the Chevy will be a smoking, rattling, hulk, with 1/2 the controls inoperative.

Mentioned before, after reading Bob Lutz's book about how GM operated, and designed/built cars, my feelings were reinforced.

That TL ran smooth, all the controls worked as they should, and there was nary a creak or rattle.

Your experience is different than mine, and I respect that. I also understand your desire for something with a lot fewer miles on it.

Isell...good point on the title. I'll ask them as I'm going back today to give the car another, closer look.

I asked the dealer why they have it on their lot as it's a high mile, 13 year old car, something they usually don't usually carry on their used lot.

The Sales Manager said that he was the one who originally sold the car new to the lady who traded it in when he was a sales person (not the sales manager) at the dealership. And, that the dealership did all the service. So, he felt comfortable putting it on the lot.

I think I'm talking myself into buying this car.

snakeweasel

In my experience, if you find a 13 year old Chevy (just for example) with 170K miles on it, and it's still running, the driving experience is way different than what I had on that Acura (or any well cared for Honda product for that matter). I'm betting the Chevy will be a smoking, rattling, hulk, with 1/2 the controls inoperative.

The last Chevy I owned was a '91 Corsica with the 4 banger. I got rid of it at about 150K miles. Still ran as good as when I first got it, it had no squeaks, rattles or knocks and all the controls worked. The only thing outside of regular maintenance was replaced a gasket at about 125K miles. My mechanic then mentioned that the inside of the engine looked very clean with little wear (I changed oil every 5K miles).

The person I sold it to drove it another 100K miles.

kyfdx

"In 1972-74 Cadillac offered either a 472 cid or 500 cid V-8 engine. The downsized 1977-79 Cadillac DeVilles/Fleetwoods had a 425 V-8."

Ah...... you are correct.. My aunt passed down her '77 DeVille to my mother, once her '76 Lincoln bit the dust.. Too many Caddys to keep straight.. ;-)

At least I was right about Caddy having a 425 ci.. at some point.. lol

nyccarguy

I'd like to add to what others have said about this 2003 Acura TL that graphicguy is looking into. While NO car with that kind of mileage is a "home run," for what you plan to use it for & for you to even be considering it, I think it sounds like a good car.

Craig - Honda's new tagline in their advertising is: "Only a Honda is a Honda." That's about as much truth as you can get in advertising. I always come back to my Prelude which recently crossed over the 150,000 mile mark, still on the original shocks. I could still use it as my daily driver if I were so inclined to do so. It cruises effortlessly at 70 plus & revs all the way up to it's 7400 rpm red line without a hiccup. It definitely drives like a car with half its mileage.

Our Pilot which has accumulated over 41,000 miles in the 2 years & 3 1/2 months we've owned it still drives like the day we picked it up.

I LOVE the way my BMW drives. However, I'm not going to buy it out at lease end (a year from now) nor look for a CPO 2011. I've even toyed with the idea of buying a diesel VW of some sort or a Jetta GLI. I've also floated the idea of buying a Wrangler Unlimited. But I keep coming back to Honda. What more do I need than an Accord Sport? I could buy it and easily drive it for 150K - 200K with regular maintenance (which I am fanatical about). For something like $25K out the door, it is hard to beat, especially when the price of used cars is so high right now.

graphicguy

snake....good deal on your Corsica. Obviously, these are only MY perceptions. Gotta say, I've never thought or heard of Chevy Corsicas being known for reliability and/or longevity. Matter of fact, I don't think I've even seen one on the road, at all, for at least a couple of years.

NYC...no matter. Called the dealer this a.m. to set up a time for him to show me the car, again. They sold it to their first customer that came in the door today.

I had gone to the bank last night to get a $3K Cashier's Check, too.

C'est la vie! Ya snooze, ya lose.

isellhondas

Aw...man...sorry you lost it!

I tried to warn you in my normal, gentle manner.

I've seen that happen so many times.

I would tell people..." There is a good chance you'll lose it"

They would get this wry smile or maybe roll their eyes and say..." well, it it's meant to be, it's meant to be"

Keep looking, there are others!

nyccarguy

Funny, I've heard snake's Corsica story before. I had a 1992 Betetta GT with the 3.1 L V6 (2 door version of the Corsica). Problems started with power windows that would freeze when the rear defroster was turned on and went all the way to a camshaft that had to be replaced at 61,000 miles because the 2nd lobe wore down. In between there was the driver's side window that was so heavy it came off the track & fell into the door.

oldfarmer50

"... I understand your feelings..."

And that's all they are...feelings. If you're comfortable with that car you should go for it.

Isell is right, condition is more important than milage but perhaps I don't trust my ability to judge condition so I fall back on mileage as my guide.

oldfarmer50

"...sold it to the first customer who came in the door..."

Wow, that's crazy. Either Hondas are as good as people think or they have done a heck of a sales job on the public. I don't like having to outbid that mind set.

explorerx4

I mentioned the same thing on another thread. It's not always about the facts, you can be faced with someone who is looking at the vehicle with a different perspective. They might like the color, reputation, or whatever...

driver100

Gotta say, I've never thought or heard of Chevy Corsicas being known for reliability and/or longevity.

My 88 Corsica decomposed after 50K miles. It was a company car that I bought from the company and it was well taken care of. It wouldn't start, things were breaking down.....I was a GM fan and I traded it in for 92 Cavalier. It was actually better, it held up for about 70K miles before it started to feel like it wasn't going to last much longer.

Those weren't golden examples of GM's best!

stickguy

GG, sorry you missed out. But, there is always another deal down the road.

I took mine to the Acura dealer today for an oil change and multi-point inspection. The service writer raved about how overall good the condition was. Only found 2 nits to pick. Real brakes down to 4mm (that I was expecting), and supposedly the front lower ball joints have "some play". not sure if that is legit needing to be dealt with, or typical dealer service department "chicken littling" I will probably price it out at the tire/brake place I use, and maybe have them take a look.

other than that, everything else on the nice inspection sheet is a check in the green box.

isellhondas

At 4MM. you have a long way to go.

I wouldn't worry about those ball joints either. They rarely go bad and if they do, you'll know it.

oldfarmer50

"...my 88 Corsica decomposed after 50k..."

My 69 Plymouth made it to 160k through some of the worst abuses a young and stupid driver could put on it. It was still running pretty good when I sold it for $100. Of course you could watch the road between your feet by that time.

tjc78

I actually know someone who got 250k out of a late 80s Corsica. Guess they weren't all bad.

snakeweasel

Matter of fact, I don't think I've even seen one on the road, at all, for at least a couple of years.

They haven't made them in like 16 or 17 years so seeing one on the road is rare, but I do see one occasionally.

Now I have a sister who is a Chevy driver along with her husband and her kid for at least the last 40 years. Her first car however was a Buick Apollo, great looking car but it was the worst POS I have ever seen. But I digress, she and her family routinely put 150 K + on her cars with few issues.

Another of my sisters and her husband are Buick people. Now this will make some here cringe but they used to be BMW freaks. They have taken a few Buicks up near the 200K range in the last few decades with few issues.

snakeweasel

well every make of car is going to have some good ones and some bad ones. I could tell you about a friend of mine that replaced his Toyota within 80K miles. And by that I mean it had so many parts replaced that by 80K it was practically a whole new car.

snakeweasel

My 69 Plymouth made it to 160k through some of the worst abuses a young and stupid driver could put on it.

I can say the same thing about my 70 Coronet. I swear that that Chrysler slant 6 could take any abuse and ask for more. And yes you could see the road go under you in that car too.

isellhondas

Our son's two year old 30,000 mile Subaru Impreza totally blew it's engine one night on the freeway. The car had received excellent care but it had started burning oil at the rate of a quart every 300-400 miles.

Subaru was in the process of doing an "oil consumption test" on it when the engine blew.

I had a private chat with the Service Manager and he more or less admitted that they had seen that happen before.

So, yeah, any make of car can have an occasional problem and then there are the cars that don't have good reputations that go 300,000 miles!

isellhondas

Back in the days of the slant six, car engines were typically worn out well before 100,000 miles. Valve jobs were a common thing at 50,000 and by the time 80-90,000 miles rolled around they were ready for an overhaul including in most cases, a rebore.

But not the mighty slant sixes! Those tough little engines would just run and run and put up with abuse and lack of oil changes. The Torqueflights that were behind them were just as tough.

They weren't good on gas mileage but they were almost impossible to kill!

oldfarmer50

"...some good ones and some bad..."

That's for sure. My worst all time vehicle was my Consumer Reports top rated Toyota 1986 pick up. It had a host of repeat mechanical problems and rusted like no other vehicle I ever saw.

Once, coming into my driveway I skidded on ice and bounced it off the front of my F-150 at maybe 3 mph. Destroyed the bumper and grill while doing nothing to the Ford.

When I went to the junk yard for repair parts I had a bunch of Toyota trucks to pick from. Every one was there for a rusted frame at less than 10 years old.

Here's a nice cheap Corsica for driver100 so he can relive his youth:
http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/cto/4052346748.html

isellhondas

I lost all respect for CR's ratings years ago.

Same with Motor Trend after they voted the Chevy Vega as the Car of the Year!

oldfarmer50

"...70 Coronet..."

Same car except my Plymouth had the 318. Another great engine. With the light back end I can see why kids loved the Road Runner with a 383.

oldfarmer50

"...voted Chevy Vega Car of the Year..."

What's your opinion on the honesty of those car mags? They seem to have drooling love for a particular new car introduction only to be trashing it a few years later.

Do car makers pay/bribe them for those glowing reviews?

Speaking of junky cars, a guy at work who spent big bucks restoring a 65 T-bird now wants to find an old 70s Chevette for a weekend cruiser. He said that he owned several when he was young and poor and now wants another.

So far every one he has found was owned by an illegal immigrant living in a motel and had no title.

driver100

same thing about my 70 Coronet. I swear that that Chrysler slant 6 could take any abuse and ask for more.

Funny, that slant 6 was a great engine in Scamps, Dusters, Plymouths etc. And then they bring out the Aspen and Chryco makes a car that self-destructs.

snakeweasel

Yeah I know back then you really had to do some serious stuff to an engine to get it past the 50-60K mark and 100K was usually the end of the life of an engine.

But those slant sixes didn't need much of anything and could take a licking. Gas mileage wasn't to bad, wasn't great either. IIRC I got something in the neighborhood of 16 to 18 in town but on the Interstate doing about 60 MPH (this was in the days of 55 MPH and Ohio had declared speeding a capital offense) I could pull 24+/-MPH.

isellhondas

A Chevette? Are there any of these even left?

They may have been even worse than a Vega.

Well, like they say in the car business..." There's a "butt" for every seat"

snakeweasel

With car magazines you have to consider who buys the ads there. They don't want to offend the revenue stream so much that they take their business elsewhere.

jayrider

The Car Mags look at cars in a totally different light than the average buyer. To each his/her own. Anything that isn't performance oriented gets demerits. Essentially, their jobs depend on how creative they can reduce a car/truck into hundreds of small details and then creatively put together an entertaining technical and subjective article that the editor likes. Way too much information for me. I skip and skim through the paragraphs to find impressions on roominess, seating, drivetrain characteristics and braking. All the rest is fluff to me.

isellhondas

Yeah, that must be it considering come of the selections they've made.

CR accepts no advertising (?) so they are supposed to be objective.

I never could understand it when they would give a 1995 Buick Le Sabre (just an example) a red dot for brakes and then give a 1996 Le Sabre a black dot when nothing changed in the brake systems between those two years?

I've also owned cars on their " Cars to Avoid" list that have been excellent.

Go figure!

snakeweasel

CR accepts no advertising (?) so they are supposed to be objective.

Yeah that's it, just don't start to think that their subscription rates don't pay the bills.

houdini1

If it has a big trunk with low liftover height and gets 35 mpg, CR will love it no matter how much it costs, how it looks, how it drives, or how reliable it is.

jwm40517

I saw a Chevette at a local car show maybe 2-3 months ago. A guy had just it bought from the original little old lady owner. Always garage stored , well equipped, about 30,000 miles , no dings & looked brand new. The only nice one I have seen.

roadburner

The Car Mags look at cars in a totally different light than the average buyer. To each his/her own.

I have to say that I love the latest incarnation of Road and Track. It is a really fun read(Mandatory Disclosure: I am friends with some of the editorial staff).
The road tests don't pull any punches and there is a nice variety of content- ranging from racing to fun used cars to DIY hints.

oldfarmer50

So I went looking for something else he can buy with that $3k check.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/3993748130.html

280hp., 285ft lbs of torque, 0-60 in about 6.5. Independent air ride suspension.

robr2

"...voted Chevy Vega Car of the Year..."

What's your opinion on the honesty of those car mags? They seem to have drooling love for a particular new car introduction only to be trashing it a few years later.

Keep in mind that MT Car of the Year is for new or substantially revised models. COTY is the best of the new litter - not the best car available.

snakeweasel

Let me know if you can find one of these.

http://www.schlattersinc.com/graphics/b-w-shop.jpg

graphicguy

Thanks oldfarmer....ya know I need another car like I need a cock roach infestation. I'm in a get a "cheapo" car to dawdle around in.

But, I must say, I do like that Lincoln Mark VIII Even when they first came out, I thought they were nice cars.

Hmmmmmmmmm......that one looks in nice shape, too.

Thanks!

fezo

Gee, good to see old home week happening. Richard's back and snake has slithered back in.

In the middle of a couple of shall we say less than stellar weeks? Another one of our pretty close knit Hope Lodge gang lost his battle. This one was stage 4 colon cancer. You can't blame him for not doing routine colonoscopies - they say to start at 50. He was 48. Great guy. Never let on how sick he was and encouraged everyone else. Wen diagnosed at 46 they gave him six months. He took part in 2 clinical trials and made 2 years. I ended taking a 3 hour drive to Wappingers Falls, NY Labor Day evening so we could drive 8 hours to Cleveland for the funeral. Maybe half of us are left and feel pretty good. A bit of survivors guilt hanging around along with the PTSD from the toxoplasmosis. Oy!

So now my daughter's car (actually mine but who's counting), the one I put $4K worth of engine replacement with the assurance that everything else was fine suddenly needs a new cat converter and exhaust and other items. Tomorrow I'll take the six nor round trip to Wappingers Fallswhere my friend up there is a pretty good mechanic and his son is a pro. We'll see what they say. If it's dead it's dead and I'll start my daughter on the road to car payments.

sterlingdog

"A bit of survivors guilt hanging around..."

We're just happy that you are a survivor. We're all living on the clock; you've been given a new time zone. That's a very good thing.

Richard

sterlingdog

Speaking of old car models, I nearly dropped my teeth last Friday. I was leaving the doctor's office and spotted a 60's Falcon sitting in the parking lot. I don't know when I have seen one of those. It was navy blue but in need of a new paint job. Looking through the window, the interior was pretty rough but I've seen worse. Wish I could have seen the mileage. Has anyone here ever owned one? I had a friend in college who had a green one. He drove it back and forth to work after we graduated. He always liked it.

Richard

mako1a

60's Falcon
There's a club for almost every make of car, Falcon being another.

They have a larger following than what you may expect. Just google Ford Falcon Club or go here>
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved- =0CDcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.falconclub.com%2F&ei=qOEtUvL-KsiKiALWhICwBQ&usg=- AFQjCNFbD0jSqpvp3KjPdeVbSHpTKEfxyg&sig2=zxAwIk0ychnK888p8DGJnw&bvm=bv.51773540,d- .cGE

and see what you get. Even Jay Leno has a Falcon Sprint in his collection.