@Michaell@Edmunds said:Driver - my wife has that exact quote on the wall of her office.
I think it is a famous one for people in the education system. Of course Einstein wasn't a great student in school, but he had a brilliant mind that could think outside the box. I think it is very clever.......just because someone isn't great at formal education it doesn't mean they don't have a chance in this world...
"I'm very fortunate; my BMW salesperson has been at the same dealership since 1994."
That is a rarity in the business today. The old-timers are the ones making $100K a year because they have so much repeat business and their customer base is willing to let them make a few bucks on a car in order to maintain that long term relationship.
But even the old-timers can't make the kind of money they used to 10 years ago or more. In the Lexus dealership I worked, there were several guys making $150K a year - they never took customers off the floor because they had so many referrals and huge customer base, they had no time to deal with floor traffic, as we called it.
In order for me make the $75K I did the last year I worked at Lexus was because I was selling 30+ cars a month, most of which were short deals. We had 45 salesmen on the floor so I was lucky to get 1 customer a day and had to make every deal possible.
@brian125 said:. A buyer who wants to save 300 or more, travel 2 or 4 hours to get there best deal is intittled to and is there decision and choice.
>
Brian, the choice is yours. For me personally, a good salesman can save me money or put me into a better car. When I traded in my 328 for a 535 (those are bmws) I originally thought I would go with a 528. I took it for a spin and found it boring. The salesmaen said what you need to try is a 535 with an M package. It has more power + the 5 differnt driving modes.
I would never have figured that out if I had shopped on the internet.
As to driving a few hundered miles to save $100 or even $300 bucks. Maybe if I was buying a $20K car that would be significant. I did save closer to $6K by buying at a dealership 30 minutes further than my closest dealer....so, that I think was significant.
I don't know how you test a car or ask a question unless you look at the car at a dealership...which means you are getting a salesperson to do a lot of work for you, when you don't intend to buy from him.
I think you are entitled to buy a car however you want to, but you have to be fair too.
@stickguy said:mike, I would bet your estimate (1 in 20 or 1 in 50) is way low. Maybe not where you worked (mid level luxury), but in the overall market, there are plenty.
Good point...it is probably a lot more for less expensive cars. I see lots of ads that say new Dodge or Honda or Kia etc, just $199 a month or whatever, or even $99 bi-weekly, those are probably aimed at the monthly cost buyer.
@nyccarguy said:
I re-read wolfofcars' "Why do you fear me so much?". I think his boasting of his "skill level" and "W2 would make your eyes pop" were for the eyes of the readers here on edmunds only. I think the purpose of his post was to vent as well as brag. He's anonymous. He didn't indicate his dealership (according to the rules), his city, state, or even region of the country. I don't doubt that he puts in long hours. I don't doubt that he's "good at what he does" after "10 years" in a business that many struggle with. He also said he's "confident and proud." Which means he smiles, laughs at your jokes, and lets the buyer think they are in control when they are not. I don't agree with how he makes his money by "taking a big bite out of your checking/savings account." I also don't blame him for trying to close every sale before they walk out of the dealership.
Even our friends abacomike and isellhondas reached their breaking point. Mike with his dealer principal "forcing him to lie to a customer's face" (which he subsequently quite after which I have a tremendous amount of respect for) and Craig with newer customers' attitudes. I think we all agree that if we were permitted to, we'd all buy our Hondas, Lexuses, & Infinitis from them.
We are about the same age and I've been working at my job since 2002. I agree that you can't please everybody. I used to be super friendly and nice to every single person who walked in my store. I get similar BS from people all the time: "take this list down, price it up, let me know how much it is, lay it out. I'm going to get money from my customer and be by in an hour." So many times I either: don't hear back from them or I call them to follow up and they don't even pick up the phone. They show up hours later (toward the end of the day when they called in the morning when I'm super busy) and magically found 3/4 of the stuff they ordered in their shop or they return 3/4 of what they bought weeks later without their receipt.
I'm glad you came back and are posting regularly again.
abacomike
I could never imagine someone trying to trade a car in that got repossessed while it was on another dealer's lot. It is equally appalling that they were shopping at another luxury car dealership. It never ceases to amaze me.
isellhondas said all the time that people would come in and just "have to have" a loaded Accord EXL V6 w/ Navigation even though it would have been more fiscally responsible to buy an LX Accord, a Civic, or even a used Honda.
You know how fond I have always been of both you and Boomcheck----such fine young men who were both sensitive, kind, and understanding, along with integrity and high standards. It saddens me to read both of your posts where you indicate that you have had to become more stern and less friendly in order to run your businesses. It's particularly sad because it isn't your fault. People of lesser statue have done this to you. Still, I know that you two will continue to retain your good qualities. Though you have to work at being more indifferent and less caring in order to survive, your good breeding will never really change. Both of you are who you are and you mustn't allow anyone to rob you of what is really important in life. As we become older, it is easy to gradually develop attitudes of bitterness and intolerance. We can become persons who trust no one and feel very impatient with those who exert many demands and lie about their true intentions. As you move forward and deal with more of these personality types, try to remind yourself that these peo0ple don't live in YOUR world. Your world consists of your family and friends who think and feel as you do. You have people that you love, trust and care about in YOUR world. That has to always be your main focus. I know that if I walked into either of your businesses with a problem, that you would help me to the best of your ability. I feel that way because I know that the two of you can tell the difference between sincerity and deception. I want both of you to keep a balance and maintain a positive focus in your lives. It means the difference between personal happiness and a dreary existence. Best wishes to you both.
Richard, I would not do this to anyone else but you because I know what a stickler you are for sound grammar a word usage - which is why, as a fellow educator, I respect you so much.
I believe you meant to say "...people of lesser STATURE have done this to you".
If I am wrong, I apologize in advance of your wrath!
@stickguy said:
mike, I would bet your estimate (1 in 20 or 1 in 50) is way low. Maybe not where you worked (mid level luxury), but in the overall market, there are plenty. They are just buying Kias, and other cheaper cars!
I also suspect a large percentage don't do any serious pricing research on the internet sites like this. Look at colors? Sure. maybe get as far as build and price (TMV).
I have to agree with you. I mention Edmunds to some of my friends in regard to pricing and purchasing techniques and they stare at me like a deer in headlights. Some don't even look up the value of their trade before they hit the lots. I actually have a friend who told me that he just paid sticker most of the time. I know the salesmen love to see this guy coming. Another friend actually asked the salesman if he thought that his trade was really worth much. Plezzzzzz! I think that the percentage is a bit higher than Mike suspects.
Thanks for the kind words. Yes I may be jaded after dealing with thousands of customers over my 10 years in the business and I definately changed the way I deal with customers, but underneath I'm still a nice guy. I just put up with less crap than I used to before and cut to the chase.
@driver, the usual way that "internet only" buyers shop is to go to the closest dealer, and spend their time checking out stock, taking test drives, etc. then they go home and solicit every dealer within 100 miles. the lucky winner does not have to invest any real sales time at least!
@mike, serious question. If there are that many problems getting people into (and keeping them in) the profession, doesn't that mean that there is a fundamental, structural problem with the business model? 45 guys on the floor or some such is just crazy, and really does nothing for the customer experience (check that, it does something. It makes it far worse).
Richard, I would not do this to anyone else but you because I know what a stickler you are for sound grammar a word usage - which is why, as a fellow educator, I respect you so much.
I believe you meant to say "...people of lesser STATURE have done this to you".
If I am wrong, I apologize in advance of your wrath!
Good grief ! I did make a "boo boo", didn't I? Thanks so much for catching that one.
By the way, I believe that you meant to say "...sound grammar aND word usage..."
"45 guys on the floor or some such is just crazy, and really does nothing for the customer experience (check that, it does something. It makes it far worse)."
Stick, you first have to know something about that Lexus dealership:
*when I was there as a salesman, 1000 cars a month was average for the dealership *1/4 of the sales force was out each day for their off day. *the schedule had a shift in at 9:00 AM another at 1:00 PM for adequate coverage *always a couple of guys on vacation *if you wanted, you could work your days off on the floor *there was a greeter who assigned a salesman from the "up system " using a computer program
When you are selling that many cars, you need a large sales staff like that.
On the Infiniti dealership, I had 25-28 salesman and we sold about 200-250 cars a month. Each salesman had at least one weekend off per month. So I usually had 3 teams with one team off.
On busy Saturdays and Sundays, there were usually customers waiting for a salesman in both dealers. That's how busy these dealerships were/are. Both dealers were #1 in sales for their brand in the world - and I believe they still are.
Within 2 miles of where I live, we have the world 's highest volume dealers for BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, VW, Audi. If you extend that to 20 miles, you can include Huyandai, Honda and Toyota.
South Florida sells an enormous amount of new cars and the dealers are always looking to hire new salesmen.
Most will not hire experienced salesmen and have their own internal training programs.
"By the way, I believe that you meant to say "...sound grammar aND word usage..."
Yes, thanks. One of the problems I have posting is that I use my iPhone and not my computer. So I am typing everything using a tiny keyboard and my right index finger. That is why I make many typos in my posts.
I can't get to the computer at night because it awakens my Dad who goes to sleep at. 8:30 PM. So I am on WiFi most of the time. But when I get on the computer, I can type 50-60 wpm with almost no typos.
It's the typing with one finger that gets me in trouble.
I thought you said that some days you might only get 1 customer, so it sounded like there were too many guys on the floor at a time fighting over too few customers.
I know all about having to justify more FTEs to cover for outages (and Sr. "leaders" that never seem to grasp the concept!)
"I thought you said that some days you might only get 1 customer,"
Yes, usually it was a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. The other days, I often dealt with 3+ customers.
Many times on a weekend I would sell 5 or 6 cars. I remember a tough day one year where I worked. 9:00 AM - 12:00 midnight and sold and delivered 5 cars. I made a bonus that day of $2000 for breaking their record for one day for one salesman.
We did our own financing and printing of all required paperwork and contracts. They had no finance managers - I did everything except prep the car. I did the delivery, collected checks and processed credit cards, etc.
That's why I had to leave - I was actually exhausted. It was a fluke that I ended up across the street at Infiniti.
"By the way, I believe that you meant to say "...sound grammar aND word usage..."
Yes, thanks. One of the problems I have posting is that I use my iPhone and not my computer. So I am typing everything using a tiny keyboard and my right index finger. That is why I make many typos in my posts.
I can't get to the computer at night because it awakens my Dad who goes to sleep at. 8:30 PM. So I am on WiFi most of the time. But when I get on the computer, I can type 50-60 wpm with almost no typos.
It's the typing with one finger that gets me in trouble.
I know how you feel. I hate typing on my smart phone because it is so easy to make errors. I much prefer my desktop.
I have finally solved the mystery of the recommended tune up on the convertible. I lifted the hood and checked out my engine. I have the 2.7 L V6. My manual says that a tune up for that engine is at 102,000 miles. It's the 2.4 L that needs the new plugs at 30,000 miles. Either the technician didn't realize what engine he was looking at, or he was trying to pull the wool over my eyes in order to make some extra bucks. At any rate, the $180 will now stay in the bank. Thanks to all who tried to assist me.
@brian125 said:. A buyer who wants to save 300 or more, travel 2 or 4 hours to get there best deal is intittled to and is there decision and choice.
Brian, the choice is yours. For me personally, a good salesman can save me money or put me into a better car. When I traded in my 328 for a 535 (those are bmws) I originally thought I would go with a 528. I took it for a spin and found it boring. The salesmaen said what you need to try is a 535 with an M package. It has more power + the 5 differnt driving modes. I would never have figured that out if I had shopped on the internet.
As to driving a few hundered miles to save $100 or even $300 bucks. Maybe if I was buying a $20K car that would be significant. I did save closer to $6K by buying at a dealership 30 minutes further than my closest dealer....so, that I think was significant.
I don't know how you test a car or ask a question unless you look at the car at a dealership...which means you are getting a salesperson to do a lot of work for you, when you don't intend to buy from him.
I think you are entitled to buy a car however you want to, but you have to be fair too.
Driver,
Nobody's driven 100 miles to save 300 dollars. $500 most will ...$ 1000 for a 3 hrs drive for sure.
IM me before your next car purchase and i will give you some tips on saving money. below is a quick summary.
Getting a good deal on a new vehicle can be achieved many ways. I have found over many years of buying cars the quickest and most effiecient way to buy with the least amount of nonsense is;
1- Do your homework first before you negotiate price. Test drives and price negotiations are done on different days. 1st step is... Test drives, desired vehicle info, calling your Ins. co. and getting outside financing approved. All targeted dealerships you need there doc fee charge, any incentives, and the internet mgr. email and direct phone number. You do this in the first 2 weeks of the month.
Once you decide on your exact make and model you then target as many dealerships as your willing to travel in state and out of state. The more dealerships you get involved the better you will do with price. This will help you figure out your area's pricing and what you could get.
2- Negotiations start 3rd week by via email / phone calls to every dealerships internet manager with your target price to buy that day. Wrapping up your deal the last days of the month.. If your target price is not met then maybe you have to raise your target price to buy at months end. When i'm buying I start the last 2 days of any month and go down my list of targeted dealerships hoping to find the dealerships that are still looking to meet there monthly sales incentives.
There is no reason to step foot in any dealership again unless you have negotiated a fair price to buy your desired vehicle. Dealerships that are not internet friendly or want me to come down for pricing get removed off my targeted list.. Trade in vehicles you need to go to your target dealerships for pricing. I like to target higher volume dealerships 3 or 5 dealerships that are giving me the best price for the new vehicle.. Most dealers around my area are giving you galves pricing. Always best to sell private you will lose on the trade in especially if your getting a real good deal on the new vehicle. Cant have it both ways..
This is how i buy so many vehicles... emails and direct phone calls to the internet mgrs..... This cuts thru alot of bad dealerships full of lies and there nonesense. I cut the middle man out .. Honda , Toyota, Nissan, Ford , Hyundia, Kia , Gm. are the dealerships that my system works best.
MB, Bmw, Audi, jaguar the game changes some .
If you would rather drive from one dealer to the next finding a fair price thats fine but prepare yourself for the big sales pitches and waiting around game// let me speak to my mgr 5x..
I find the new generation salesman to be lazy not knowing there product , pricing or Incentives. These young folks cant answer the easiest questions how in the world are they going to sell me a vehicle. They cant... Most of these sales kids have no sales skills what so ever. They resort to lies and twisting truths to lure you in and holding you there to the real negotiator/ mgr. comes to close the deal.... The car industry takes advantage of the un-educated buyers with there shamless tactic's. These folks have nobody to blame but themselves for not educating themselves.
I could sit in any dealership and do the same thing I do on the phone. I'd rather buy my vehicles in the comfort of my own home buying on my terms making my best deal within a certain mile radius . This is what i find to be the best way to buy.. Its not for everyone thou.
Just to answer you question about being fair and treated right. ... If i go to test drive a vehicle and i'm not buying a vehicle for someone else... I tell that salesperson that in 2 weeks when i decide on vehicle and price you will recieve a call from me to present your manager with my offer to buy said vehicle that day. That dealership has the first crack at earning my business before i go down my target list of dealersdhips the following day. Good salesman that dont earn my business i always make sure i call his/ her boss to let them know he/ she did a outstanding job and i will come back on my next purchase to see if you could re earn my business. If i'm within a reasonable number the first dealer will get my business.
3 left out of 20 hires after 2 months? That's almost as bad as school bus drivers. We usually lose 50% once they get their CDL license from our paid training. Another 25% are gone after a year when they realize that $23/hour isn't that great if the school only gives you 15 hours of work.
"spiffs"
That answers a long standing question I've had as to why salespeople hate doing custom orders from the factory.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks for the kind words. Yes I may be jaded after dealing with thousands of customers over my 10 years in the business and I definately changed the way I deal with customers, but underneath I'm still a nice guy. I just put up with less crap than I used to before and cut to the chase.
On the other hand, you're dealing with Canadians, people who are incapable of being mean. Try dealing with Isell's American grinders and you'd be throwing chairs in a week (tried putting a smiley face here).
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"I could sit in any dealership and do the same thing I do on the phone. I'd rather buy my vehicles in the comfort of my own home buying on my terms making my best deal within a certain mile radius . This is what i find to be the best way to buy.. Its not for everyone thou."
Brian, your method(s) for buying a new car is one way to buy a new car. There are many variations to your approach, all of which work for some buyers, but not for others. The best way to buy a new car for most people depends solely on the following:
*personality of the buyer *time constraints - how much time the person has to get the new car, i.e., was the car totaled in an accident and the replacement is needed immediately; how much time does the individual have to devote to buying his car, etc. *how important is it to the individual to save $100-$500 on a new car - to some people, unless they can save $500 or more on a car by shopping, calling, negotiating, it may not be worth the effort. *many people prefer buying from the closest dealership where they have done business before and have a relationship with management and service and a salesman who fights to get the best pricing for the new car.
There are many other variables that determine how an individual chooses to buy their new cars.
If there is a trade involved, it changes everything. You suggest selling the trade privately. That is not always the best approach. Some people don't want to deal with newspaper ads and potential buyers coming to their homes to see the car. I would never, ever engage in selling my trades privately. In many States, if you trade in the car, you don't pay sales tax on the value of the trade - which at $25,000 can save well over $1700. For me, it's well over $2500-$3000.
So, depending on all the variables, your approach to buying new cars may work for you while it may not be the best approach for someone else.
There are many ways to buy a car and get a great deal - yours is not the only way because it may not fit an individual's lifestyle, availability of time, their personality, etc.
For me, I love shopping for new cars and the negotiating - remember, I sold cars for a living. But my way is not the best way for others.
"On the other hand, you're dealing with Canadians, people who are incapable of being mean. Try dealing with Isell's American grinders and you'd be throwing chairs in a week"
There is some truth to what you say OF. Where I worked (and still live), you find out quickly that dealing with retired people in their late 70's and early 80's is like working with alligators posing as pet turtles - they look cute, they act sheepish, but once negotiations start, the car salesman is their next meal!
I learned quickly that you have to keep in mind that this type of customer has purchased 20-30 cars in their lifetime and the only thing standing between them and their new car is the car salesman. So, the process can get ugly rather quickly.
I always tried to stay calm with these types of antagonists (buyers), but it was like being an early Christian having been thrown into the arena by the Romans as the lions circled in for the kill. (Don't you just love my metaphors!)
Their first offer on the new car was usually $2000 below our invoice. I used to sit there after they made an offer like that and hallucinate about taking out a bazooka and putting a rather quick, but noisy end to their lives and simultaneously put an end to my anguish and frustration. But alas, it was just wishful thinking.
I always sold people like that a car and they always loved me for getting them their car for invoice. The worst part about those kind of sales is that they would refer all their friends and neighbors to me so I had to go through the same contortions over and over again.
My nickname at the dealership became the Social Security Kid. It was tough living that name down.
So, if you think Isell had it bad, consider my plight in the business dealing with these types of buyers. Just thinking about those experiences gets my TRIGGER FINGER twitching.
Having bought vehicles for decades, the best deal can never be assured without visiting a dealer.
The internet is essential for information gathering and for identifying the better dealerships. Every dealer has their objectives. While it is true they all pay about the same for each vehicle, any dealer may have a more favorable motive at any given time. The internet will often reveal such dealers
However, any dealer is far more likely to deal best when the customer is actually in the store.
The car buying process is simple. Many who post on Edmunds tend to complicate the process through a seemingly endless series of unnecessary steps.
Personally, I research and develop a price strategy, including trade, fees, and financing. I contact dealers and inform them of my goals. I choose the dealer I find most attractive. I then visit to complete the sale. Sometimes there will be be a stumble of two, like the trade value. However, almost always we reach a deal. I believe this works for me. And for the salesperson
@sterlingdog said:
I have finally solved the mystery of the recommended tune up on the convertible. I lifted the hood and checked out my engine. I have the 2.7 L V6. My manual says that a tune up for that engine is at 102,000 miles. It's the 2.4 L that needs the new plugs at 30,000 miles. Either the technician didn't realize what engine he was looking at, or he was trying to pull the wool over my eyes in order to make some extra bucks. At any rate, the $180 will now stay in the bank. Thanks to all who tried to assist me.
@karhill, car buying or any kind of purchase for that matter is very simple at its core. A car is worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay and what the willing seller willing to sell. If the price is not right for either party, there is no sale period!
It does not matter how slick or how elaborate the sales presentation, if in the buyer's mind the price is not right for them, they will walk.
@stickguy said:the usual way that "internet only" buyers shop is to go to the closest dealer, and spend their time checking out stock, taking test drives, etc.
I guess, since I have been in sales for a number of year I would find that very unfair. Some person is going to waste my time, use a dealers facilities (which are often worth $millions, just to figure out what car he wants), and then shop around for the cheapest car he can find.
I just couldn't do that. Brian may think he is being smart.......I find that people who do this type of thing usually end up paying more in the long run. They may not know about some feature they should have bought, they don't get help if something goes wrong, they don't build relationships. They could even lose big time trying to sell their trade-in privately...and how do you coordinate the trade in and picking up the new car? Lots wrong with Brian's methods.
@brian125 said:- Do your homework first before you negotiate price. Test drives and price negotiations are done on different days. 1
Brian,if it works for you go with it. I have observed several people lately who try to save themselves money and it ends up costing more in the long run. Briefly, here are reasons why I wouldn't use this method for buying a car:
You will have to sell your trade in yourself. This can be very risky. You could lose a lot more than you think you will save.(One guy here put his car on Ebay, they guys came, went for a test drive, and killed him) Man killed selling truck
How will you coordinate selling your used car privately - and btw - putting money into it to get it up to standard, and taking delivery of your new car. Who is going to drive you 300 miles to pick up the new car...and don't forget to take a brief case with you with all your paperwork and personal items you will want in the new car.
You won't develop a relationship with your dealer. I can email my sales rep any questions I have about my bmw and I get a reply usually the same day. We had a problem with my wife's bluetooth on her Audi, the dealer kept after it until it was working.....management called to make sure we were pleased with the service.
You will buy from the dealer/salesperson who shows you the car in the beginning, but, you expect him to match the price of a dealer who can make a sale, for doing nothing. The dealer you went to originally, has to pay his sales staff, he has to maintain a dealership with all the associated costs....advertising, taxes etc., and you expect him to match a dealer who spent almost nothing to sell you a car.
I like to build a relationship with my dealer. When I had my Jeeps the dealer would sell me a new car at the lowest possible price, and they gave me a fair price for my trade. No work involved, no game playing. I didn't have to worry about selling my trade in privately, or trying to match up the day I took delivery with how to get around. As Mike pointed out, in most places you will lose the difference in sales tax too...which is a lot to make up.
If it works for you...then go with it. I prefer to buy my car from a knowledgeable sales person who may even help me to make a better decision about what I should buy....and could even save me more money than you will save buying on the internet.
"My guess is either they tried with at least one other dealership who found out that it was going to be repo'ed or they knew that by coming in late you wouldn't get that info from the bank until after the deal was done."
I don't know myself, but I would have thought they would have been smarter than that.
Do not underestimate the power of human stupidity.
If we had appraised the car and arrived at an agreeable sales price, they should have known we would have to pull a credit bureau report to get their FICO score. The report would have shown "collections" or missed payments or does not pay when due. The score would tell the whole story.
If they were desperate they might not have thought of that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You keep assuming these cars in 2025 are going to be outpriced. There are several midsize vehicles you could buy today 2014 for 20 to 25k that are getting close to 40 mpg. Were not that far off.. 11 years is a lifetime in tech yrs.
Again getting each additional 1 MPG is costlier than the previous 1 MPG increase. So it will get more expensive or result in smaller lighter cars with less powerful engines.
Remember that the 'A' in CAFE is average, that means for every Grand Caravan that Dodge sells that is rated at 40 MPG they will need to sell several 60+ MPG rated cars or pay fines.
With the average car now costing more than half the average yearly family income it will getting tight for many families.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
3 left out of 20 hires after 2 months? That's almost as bad as school bus drivers. We usually lose 50% once they get their CDL license from our paid training. Another 25% are gone after a year when they realize that $23/hour isn't that great if the school only gives you 15 hours of work.
"spiffs"
That answers a long standing question I've had as to why salespeople hate doing custom orders from the factory.
You probably lose a certain percentage the first time that they drive a bus load of those lovely creatures called children. Remember my bus driver who threw his keys on my desk and said that driving a Jeep in Vietnam was a picnic compared to driving a school bus?
Agreed with alot of things you noted on buying. Its not for everyone. Not many can buy the way I do. I'm not looking for a relationship with any saleperson. My research prior to my personal buying answers all questions I need to know.. I'm driven by getting best price in a targeted area... Once you get a dealers bottom line price you decide buy closer to my house for more $ or travel further to save.
I did say if you had a trade in you need to drive from one dealer to the next for best price. For me and I also buy expensive vehicles if a dealer wont give me a fair trade. I sell private. My vehicles are usually sold prior to my next purchase.
Driver,-..... Sorry but all the things your talking about with buying a new vehicle/ Trades/ salespeople relationships, are non factores for me , family and friends on the models i suggested. Toyota, Honda , Ford, Nissan , Gm, etc. On a personal note : learning all about a certain vehicle is done prior to your purchase.
Bmw, MB, and a few others dealerships are a different approach on how to buy.
On the trade front trading back to a dealer is time consuming for me.. I keep my vehicles for only 4 years at best and most are in pristine condition/ garaged. Most of my vehicles I sell prior to my new Vehicle purchase. I may start looking to sell 4 months before I'm buying my next purchase. Never had a problem mostly friends, or someone who knows me grabs one one My vehicles. One of my golfing buddies has bought 3 of my cars over the years another bought 2..
There is no wrong and right way to buy, Only what works best for you is what counts.. My way nets me the best results with the least amount of dealer nonesense the past 43 years.
Hey Mike on a more serious note.. How about.......... UCONN.. never thought they were going to beat Florida last night...........The Big East is back
"Agreed with alot of things you noted on buying. Its not for everyone. Not many can buy the way I do."
No, not many can buy the way you do nor would they want to buy the way you do. The same is true for my approach to buying cars .
It appears that you spend up to 4 months buying a new car and trying to sell your existing car, at least that is what you said. To any people, TIME IS MONEY! There is no way I would spend more than a week buying a new car - I don't like the process nor the traveling and the time consumption.
If I am ready to buy a new car (which is about ever year, sometimes less as my buddies here well know), I buy like this:
*go to dealer's new car lot and pick out something I might like (I don't go into the store - I just browse) *go online to mbusa.com and read their specs and I build a car to get what I want *go onto to Edmunds and read their reviews of the car. Then I build the car adding the options I desire. I get an approximate invoice (it's usually a tad different than actual invoice) *i go onto Manheim and find out what my trade is going for at their auction. I do the same with NADA's Black Book. I then add $2000 to that value because that is about what I usually get from my dealer *I check out USAA's car buying pricing (usually it's $3000-$4000 under dealer invoice) and I print out my certificate for their fleet discount. *I then go to MBCA (Mercedes Club) and print out my $500 certificate *I call my dealer's manager and I make an appointment - I go in - I test drive the car I wanted - and usually 20 minutes later I get my price and the numbers I want for my trade
I try hard to ignore Brian but reading his postings makes me realize that getting out of the business when I did was a good thing to do. Too many "Brians" out there that have ruined the business.
@brian125 said: My research prior to my personal buying answers all questions I need to know..
And that research probably means a trip to your local dealer to take a test drive, sit in the car, ask a few questions etc. When your dealer goes out of business one day you will be crying the loudest that you have to travel 100 miles to test drive a car.....which you can add to the cost of your way of doing business.
You'd think that the kids would be what causes new hires to quit driving but not so much. Some just use the school to get free CDL training, never having any intention of driving kids but most leave when they find that they could never live on what bus driving pays. It's a great part time job but a lousy full time one.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Having read "wolfie's" pompous declaration, and the subsequent comments to him (there and here), it brings to mind more than few thoughts I have on the topic, but here's just a couple. First, he managed to epitomize the basic root of any car shopper's concerns when darkening the doors of a car dealer. Fear isn't the right word, but aside from that, he answers his own question in the name of his discussion. 'Discussion'. Ha.
And secondly, every time I see a salesman (actively employed or retired) refer to an automotive dealership as a "store" (a newly coined marketing term for a car dealership that has only been in use for less than a decade), I just wanna spit in contempt. Ford has been doing this with their television ads for a couple years now. "Visit your Ford store". pffftttt. A car dealership is not a store! It is a dealership in the absolute purest sense of the word, and to refer to it in any other way in some misdirected attempt to ease concerns of straightforward transactions that could suggest a customer need not ensure their guard is active, only indicates, IMO, a greater need for that customer to not relax "while I sit you down to massage the dollars from your pocket". The idea of course is that if it is referred to as a 'store' it is supposed to be considered a less threatening term than 'dealer' which is where 'deals' and 'wheeler-deals' are done....the 'sales dance' if you like.
So....salespersons that refer to their car dealership as a store, automatically lose credibility in my books because immediately they fall into that "trust me" (as has already been discussed) class of sales. Was it nycarguy? whose friend (at the Toyota dealership) promptly and astutely countered, when his previous salesman had been replaced with Mr. TrustMe, told him that he could 'trust' him. The response was pure poetry. And of course the insincere sales dance that followed when his choice in car and form of payment was not acknowledged (at all) by the salesman and the SM, just further supports why I state that...even with today's modern automotive dealership, these car dealerships are not stores...they are dealers. The only aspect of a car dealer that could be considered store-like would be their parts dept. And even there, 'deals' and parts costs are negotiated if you opt to have the dealer do the installations.
Building a relationship with the dealer might work for you and mike who buy regularly but what good does it do me to develop a relationship with the Mitsu dealer when I buy a Ford?
I think you worry too much about Craigslist killers coming to test drive. Yeah that happens but probably more people get car jacked just driving down the street.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Again I agree with you on the sale part.. Time factor is money. I do the same price infoing. and research you do but over the phone for the sale... I could nail down a good price within minutes of calling my target dealerships or 1 hour doing this from my home.. Hot new models may be more of a challege. Again MB and Bmw are negotiated differently A faxed buyers order to my house seals the deal holding with a credit card deposit.. Call me when my car is ready for pick up or if dealer is close drive right down to the store. In 43 yrs. dealing with many dealerships I can just call alot of mgrs. and get what i need pricewise. . I have gave dealerships hundreds of sales and probably thousands with folks taken my advice on certain dealerships. That is my perks for never taken a dime from friends and folks and giving certain dealerships business.
I may start to put out feelers for the posible sale for my out going cars months ahead of time. My new car search is done 2 weeks prior to my sale. For intsance. I already know for 2016 the posiible cars i want. Genesis , or S6, and another ML 350 for my wife. Until the month i'm buying i do nothing but read up on reviews and maybe reconsider one of my choices. I have been buy 4 new vehicles every 4 to 5 years. Now that my youngest daughter is out and on her own i'm down to 3 vehicles next turn around.
If you ask me to buy you a new vehicle. I will tell you Mike once you decide on your exact make and model have finance in place... make a list of all the dealerships you are willing to travel to with name and number/ email of that dealers internet mgr. I will negotiate your best deal from that list or tell you.......... what i feel is a good price.
My way is about saving valuable Time... Time is money. Thats why how I buy is the least time consuming for me. Do you think it would be possible to buy over 1000 vehicles in my day for myself, family, and friends of friends if this was a drawn out process. I would be nuts.. many think I am ...lol.... Its quick easy and effiecient with the least amount of nonesense. I do consider myself a expert negotiator thats what makes this process very easy.
Oh, I suppose I've used the term "Dealership" and "Store" without thinking one thing about it.
It sounds like you think...
Dealership = A bad thing
Store = Not a bad thing.
Personally, I think it would be a good thing if car dealerships all sold their cars for a fixed price.
I will say that I used to despise car dealerships and never dreamed that someday I would actually work in one. Had I not picked the rare family owned store that I did work in I know I wouldn't have lasted a week.
@crkyolfrt said:
Having read "wolfie's" pompous declaration, and the subsequent comments to him (there and here), it brings to mind more than few thoughts I have on the topic, but here's just a couple. First, he managed to epitomize the basic root of any car shopper's concerns when darkening the doors of a car dealer. Fear isn't the right word, but aside from that, he answers his own question in the name of his discussion. 'Discussion'. Ha.
And secondly, every time I see a salesman (actively employed or retired) refer to an automotive dealership as a "store" (a newly coined marketing term for a car dealership that has only been in use for less than a decade), I just wanna spit in contempt. Ford has been doing this with their television ads for a couple years now. "Visit your Ford store". pffftttt. A car dealership is not a store! It is a dealership in the absolute purest sense of the word, and to refer to it in any other way in some misdirected attempt to ease concerns of straightforward transactions that could suggest a customer need not ensure their guard is active, only indicates, IMO, a greater need for that customer to not relax "while I sit you down to massage the dollars from your pocket". The idea of course is that if it is referred to as a 'store' it is supposed to be considered a less threatening term than 'dealer' which is where 'deals' and 'wheeler-deals' are done....the 'sales dance' if you like.
So....salespersons that refer to their car dealership as a store, automatically lose credibility in my books because immediately they fall into that "trust me" (as has already been discussed) class of sales. Was it nycarguy? whose friend (at the Toyota dealership) promptly and astutely countered, when his previous salesman had been replaced with Mr. TrustMe, told him that he could 'trust' him. The response was pure poetry. And of course the insincere sales dance that followed when his choice in car and form of payment was not acknowledged (at all) by the salesman and the SM, just further supports why I state that...even with today's modern automotive dealership, these car dealerships are not stores...they are dealers. The only aspect of a car dealer that could be considered store-like would be their parts dept. And even there, 'deals' and parts costs are negotiated if you opt to have the dealer do the installations
Crkyolfrt, you and everyone else here is entitled to an opinion, no matter what that opinion might be. You seem so bitter and angry, that you have lost sight of everything that has anything to do with buying a selling cars.
A store is a place you go to buy something. It might be Macy's, Walmart, Loews, Target, Joseph A. Bank, Publix, Winn Dixie, Giant, etc. Those are stores because they sell things in their stores. To call them anything else but a store is stupidity, in my opinion.
Now, let's look at the car dealership. It has cars on the lots, cars in the service department and cars in the showroom. They also have a Parts Store where you can buy parts, novelties, even clothing and jewelry now. I do not consider any part of a car dealership to be a store EXCEPT for the showroom. You can call it anything you want to call it, but it is still a store where you look, try on for size and style and fit, and where you price the vehicle. If that's not a store, then Richard and I will have to give up on the English language and how words are defined.
Now after having said that, when I was a sales manager (not a salesman), the owner would always tell me to make sure to lock up the store no later than 9:00 PM.
I didn't usually say that to my employees - actually it was the showroom I was closing up - but the showroom is the STORE part of any dealership.
So, you can add me to your list of FAVORITE HATES! It would be a true honor, believe me because I can't tolerate angry people who are vindictive, obnoxious and bitter!
@brian125 said:
If you ask me to buy you a new vehicle. I will tell you Mike once you decide on your exact make and model have finance in place... make a list of all the dealerships you are willing to travel to with name and number/ email of that dealers internet mgr. I will negotiate your best deal from that list or tell you.......... what i feel is a good price.
Brian, I don't know you, we've never met, but I've read your posts with sincerity. Your posts sound a bit egotistical - too egotistical for me to entrust to you the process of getting me the best possible price on a new 2016 Mercedes Benz E550 in November of 2015. No one, and I mean no one, gets Mercedes Benz cars for what I pay for them - NO ONE! My dealer is willing to sell me cars for his dead invoice - without negotiating with him. This last one I bought, I paid $5500 under invoice.
You do not know how I deal with my dealer, or any other dealer I buy cars from. When I bought BMW's, I bought them for invoice because I was in the business at that time and most of the managers in the dealership knew who I was because we attended conferences and conventions together.
But can I get you or anyone else a new Mercedes or BMW for what I pay for them? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I won't and can't work hard to get you or anyone else a car for what I pay for them. My dealership won't price the same car at the same price as I paid for anyone else. Believe me, I've tried.
I am not bragging, I am just telling you a set of facts.
Was I the best car salesman that ever lived? NO! Was I the best dealership manager that ever lived? NO! But I did my job day in, day out, and was appreciated for what I did.
Brian, become a little less egotistical in your posts, a little less overbearing, and people like me might read them in a different light - you never know!
I try hard to ignore Brian but reading his postings makes me realize that getting out of the business when I did was a good thing to do. Too many "Brians" out there that have ruined the business.
Isell..... you seem to forget something.. Your auto industry set up this buying system msrp/ invoice price thing.. I play by the rules you guys set up. Stop being a hater. In NY / NJ there are over 100 honda dealerships within my area that i could by a Accord.. Makes no difference to me where i buy your product from other than getting the better pricing . Or how far i want to travel.. What dont you seem to get? i have just as much right to save a buck as you deserve to make. . ......
Blame Honda not me for making your comapany's franchise like a subway sandwich shop.. Every 5 miles you find one in certain area's.
. Your dealership or store all sell the same product just like a Tv set or a Refrigerator or a mattress, or microwave. I'm going to review to see what models are rated the best and go find the cheapest place to buy it closest to my house.. If you live in a rural area with supply and demand working against you................... then handle it .
Abacomike, your post came on pretty strong, and with a level of defensiveness that surprised me. I can only assume I hit a nerve that got a little too close to home with you.
Enlightening though, because earlier when I had been reading comments from the most frequent salesmen who have posted an opinion here on on wolfie's post, I had thought to myself that the only salesman I would consider purchasing from, was you. (FWIW, the 'retired' word I used was not used with you in mind because.. until your post above, I don't ever recall you referring to your old dealership as a store). Further, it seems like you were accusing me of being stupid even though I didn't say that any of those other stores that you mentioned were not stores. Those were your words and choices. Of course they are stores. Putting words in my mouth will not strengthen your stance to anyone reading who can think for themselves.
In any event, since you have labelled me "vindictive, obnoxious and bitter" (in BOLD, no less) and since I do not live with my head in the sand, I can safely say I am glad I have never darkened the doors of your showroom back in the day and wouldn't today if you were to get back into the biz.
Usually for such a level of defense to raise its ugly head, there are reasons of potential validation and truth in what one has suggested, and hence cause that level of defense.
@isellhondas said:
I couldn't (and didn't) have said that any better!
Sometimes I find myself missing the business but a couple of posters here make me SO GLAD I'm out of it!
Actually, Isell, I do miss it a little. It sure wasn't very boring - every day was different from the day before or the next day. It was a delight to work with numerous different people from different walks of life. I enjoyed talking about their families, their children, their jobs, etc. I enjoyed sharing information about vacation spots and restaurants in the area.
I wanted to get to know my customers - I didn't want to "sell" them a car, I wanted them to "buy" one from me. There is a difference between the two approaches. Selling people something puts you at a disadvantage - you have to "convince" people that they should buy the make and model I was selling in my "store". The other approach is to truly listen to people, get to know them, be honest and sincere with them - yes it take time and sincerity, but it is all worth it in the end.
If you treat your customers the same - by the same I mean "sell" them a car - you will not succeed in the car business. Each and every customer needs to be treated differently because each one has a different reason for being in the showroom - some are just looking, some are checking out the dealership, and some are actually there to buy a car. I don't treat the "looker" the same as the "buyer" or the "sizer-upper". As the right questions, remember how they answered those questions, and get to really know them.
I miss that part of car sales. What I don't miss is the stress from management or dealer principals who see nothing but dollar signs. Where they saw $$$$, I saw the potential to sell a car and make a friend - some of them became good friends of mine and still call me to help them buy cars. I won't shop with them, but I do give them advice.
Isell, I am sure you miss that part of car sales - it's great!
isell, your second post was just a another predictable 'me too' post..
That said, I admired your level of restraint in your first post, but I see that you still count't help yourself from calling it a store in that very post.
@crkyolfrt said:
Abacomike, your post came on pretty strong, and with a level of defensiveness that surprised me. I can only assume I hit a nerve that got a little too close to home with you.
Enlightening though, because earlier when I had been reading comments from the most frequent salesmen who have posted an opinion here on on wolfie's post, I had thought to myself that the only salesman I would consider purchasing from, was you. (FWIW, the 'retired' word I used was not used with you in mind because.. until your post above, I don't ever recall you referring to your old dealership as a store). Further, it seems like you were accusing me of being stupid even though I didn't say that any of those other stores that you mentioned were not stores. Those were your words and choices. Of course they are stores. Putting words in my mouth will not strengthen your stance to anyone reading who can think for themselves.
In any event, since you have labelled me "vindictive, obnoxious and bitter" (in BOLD, no less) and since I do not live with my head in the sand, I can safely say I am glad I have never darkened the doors of your showroom back in the day and wouldn't today if you were to get back into the biz.
Usually for such a level of defense to raise its ugly head, there are reasons of potential validation and truth in what one has suggested, and hence cause that level of defense.
I think you read too much into my post, crkyolfrt. You need to reread your post again - not from your own perspective, but from the perspective of a new poster coming to SFTSF for the very first time. If you don't see the anger and acidity in your post the way I did, then I am thrilled you never came into my store.
On the other hand, if you are honest with yourself, reread your post with "objectivity", you will see where Isell and I are coming from.
So, after taking a bit of time to reread your post, assess how others might respond to it? OK?
Brian, become a little less egotistical in your posts, a little less overbearing, and people like me might read them in a different light - you never know!
Mike - I never quetiones your ability to get good pricing. Your not the guy who needs my help. Its the uneducated buyer. Thats was my point.
@crkyolfrt said:
isell, your second post was just a another predictable 'me too' post..
That said, I admired your level of restraint in your first post, but I see that you still count't help yourself from calling it a store in that very post.
I must be missing something.. A Car Dealership IS a store where people go to buy things.
You can buy an oil filter or a car.
I don't understand why you feel so strongly about this?
I've never stopped to think about it but I know I have used both terms.
Comments
I'm very fortunate; my BMW salesperson has been at the same dealership since 1994.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I think it is a famous one for people in the education system. Of course Einstein wasn't a great student in school, but he had a brilliant mind that could think outside the box. I think it is very clever.......just because someone isn't great at formal education it doesn't mean they don't have a chance in this world...
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"I'm very fortunate; my BMW salesperson has been at the same dealership since 1994."
That is a rarity in the business today. The old-timers are the ones making $100K a year because they have so much repeat business and their customer base is willing to let them make a few bucks on a car in order to maintain that long term relationship.
But even the old-timers can't make the kind of money they used to 10 years ago or more. In the Lexus dealership I worked, there were several guys making $150K a year - they never took customers off the floor because they had so many referrals and huge customer base, they had no time to deal with floor traffic, as we called it.
In order for me make the $75K I did the last year I worked at Lexus was because I was selling 30+ cars a month, most of which were short deals. We had 45 salesmen on the floor so I was lucky to get 1 customer a day and had to make every deal possible.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
>
Brian, the choice is yours. For me personally, a good salesman can save me money or put me into a better car. When I traded in my 328 for a 535 (those are bmws) I originally thought I would go with a 528. I took it for a spin and found it boring. The salesmaen said what you need to try is a 535 with an M package. It has more power + the 5 differnt driving modes.
I would never have figured that out if I had shopped on the internet.
As to driving a few hundered miles to save $100 or even $300 bucks. Maybe if I was buying a $20K car that would be significant. I did save closer to $6K by buying at a dealership 30 minutes further than my closest dealer....so, that I think was significant.
I don't know how you test a car or ask a question unless you look at the car at a dealership...which means you are getting a salesperson to do a lot of work for you, when you don't intend to buy from him.
I think you are entitled to buy a car however you want to, but you have to be fair too.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good point...it is probably a lot more for less expensive cars. I see lots of ads that say new Dodge or Honda or Kia etc, just $199 a month or whatever, or even $99 bi-weekly, those are probably aimed at the monthly cost buyer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You know how fond I have always been of both you and Boomcheck----such fine young men who were both sensitive, kind, and understanding, along with integrity and high standards. It saddens me to read both of your posts where you indicate that you have had to become more stern and less friendly in order to run your businesses. It's particularly sad because it isn't your fault. People of lesser statue have done this to you. Still, I know that you two will continue to retain your good qualities. Though you have to work at being more indifferent and less caring in order to survive, your good breeding will never really change. Both of you are who you are and you mustn't allow anyone to rob you of what is really important in life. As we become older, it is easy to gradually develop attitudes of bitterness and intolerance. We can become persons who trust no one and feel very impatient with those who exert many demands and lie about their true intentions. As you move forward and deal with more of these personality types, try to remind yourself that these peo0ple don't live in YOUR world. Your world consists of your family and friends who think and feel as you do. You have people that you love, trust and care about in YOUR world. That has to always be your main focus. I know that if I walked into either of your businesses with a problem, that you would help me to the best of your ability. I feel that way because I know that the two of you can tell the difference between sincerity and deception. I want both of you to keep a balance and maintain a positive focus in your lives. It means the difference between personal happiness and a dreary existence. Best wishes to you both.
Richard
"People of lesser statue have done this to you."
Richard, I would not do this to anyone else but you because I know what a stickler you are for sound grammar a word usage - which is why, as a fellow educator, I respect you so much.
I believe you meant to say "...people of lesser STATURE have done this to you".
If I am wrong, I apologize in advance of your wrath!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I have to agree with you. I mention Edmunds to some of my friends in regard to pricing and purchasing techniques and they stare at me like a deer in headlights. Some don't even look up the value of their trade before they hit the lots. I actually have a friend who told me that he just paid sticker most of the time. I know the salesmen love to see this guy coming. Another friend actually asked the salesman if he thought that his trade was really worth much. Plezzzzzz! I think that the percentage is a bit higher than Mike suspects.
Richard
Richard,
Thanks for the kind words. Yes I may be jaded after dealing with thousands of customers over my 10 years in the business and I definately changed the way I deal with customers, but underneath I'm still a nice guy. I just put up with less crap than I used to before and cut to the chase.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Richard, what a great post. You are one of the best at getting your meaning across with the written word...not an easy thing to do. Great job.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
@driver, the usual way that "internet only" buyers shop is to go to the closest dealer, and spend their time checking out stock, taking test drives, etc. then they go home and solicit every dealer within 100 miles. the lucky winner does not have to invest any real sales time at least!
@mike, serious question. If there are that many problems getting people into (and keeping them in) the profession, doesn't that mean that there is a fundamental, structural problem with the business model? 45 guys on the floor or some such is just crazy, and really does nothing for the customer experience (check that, it does something. It makes it far worse).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Good grief ! I did make a "boo boo", didn't I?
Thanks so much for catching that one.
By the way, I believe that you meant to say "...sound grammar aND word usage..."
Richard
"45 guys on the floor or some such is just crazy, and really does nothing for the customer experience (check that, it does something. It makes it far worse)."
Stick, you first have to know something about that Lexus dealership:
*when I was there as a salesman, 1000 cars a month was average for the dealership
*1/4 of the sales force was out each day for their off day.
*the schedule had a shift in at 9:00 AM another at 1:00 PM for adequate coverage
*always a couple of guys on vacation
*if you wanted, you could work your days off on the floor
*there was a greeter who assigned a salesman from the "up system " using a computer program
When you are selling that many cars, you need a large sales staff like that.
On the Infiniti dealership, I had 25-28 salesman and we sold about 200-250 cars a month. Each salesman had at least one weekend off per month. So I usually had 3 teams with one team off.
On busy Saturdays and Sundays, there were usually customers waiting for a salesman in both dealers. That's how busy these dealerships were/are. Both dealers were #1 in sales for their brand in the world - and I believe they still are.
Within 2 miles of where I live, we have the world 's highest volume dealers for BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, VW, Audi. If you extend that to 20 miles, you can include Huyandai, Honda and Toyota.
South Florida sells an enormous amount of new cars and the dealers are always looking to hire new salesmen.
Most will not hire experienced salesmen and have their own internal training programs.
I hop I have addressed your concerns.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
"By the way, I believe that you meant to say "...sound grammar aND word usage..."
Yes, thanks. One of the problems I have posting is that I use my iPhone and not my computer. So I am typing everything using a tiny keyboard and my right index finger. That is why I make many typos in my posts.
I can't get to the computer at night because it awakens my Dad who goes to sleep at. 8:30 PM. So I am on WiFi most of the time. But when I get on the computer, I can type 50-60 wpm with almost no typos.
It's the typing with one finger that gets me in trouble.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I thought you said that some days you might only get 1 customer, so it sounded like there were too many guys on the floor at a time fighting over too few customers.
I know all about having to justify more FTEs to cover for outages (and Sr. "leaders" that never seem to grasp the concept!)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"I thought you said that some days you might only get 1 customer,"
Yes, usually it was a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. The other days, I often dealt with 3+ customers.
Many times on a weekend I would sell 5 or 6 cars. I remember a tough day one year where I worked. 9:00 AM - 12:00 midnight and sold and delivered 5 cars. I made a bonus that day of $2000 for breaking their record for one day for one salesman.
We did our own financing and printing of all required paperwork and contracts. They had no finance managers - I did everything except prep the car. I did the delivery, collected checks and processed credit cards, etc.
That's why I had to leave - I was actually exhausted. It was a fluke that I ended up across the street at Infiniti.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I know how you feel. I hate typing on my smart phone because it is so easy to make errors. I much prefer my desktop.
Richard
I have finally solved the mystery of the recommended tune up on the convertible. I lifted the hood and checked out my engine. I have the 2.7 L V6. My manual says that a tune up for that engine is at 102,000 miles. It's the 2.4 L that needs the new plugs at 30,000 miles. Either the technician didn't realize what engine he was looking at, or he was trying to pull the wool over my eyes in order to make some extra bucks. At any rate, the $180 will now stay in the bank. Thanks to all who tried to assist me.
Richard
@brian125 said:. A buyer who wants to save 300 or more, travel 2 or 4 hours to get there best deal is intittled to and is there decision and choice.
Brian, the choice is yours. For me personally, a good salesman can save me money or put me into a better car. When I traded in my 328 for a 535 (those are bmws) I originally thought I would go with a 528. I took it for a spin and found it boring. The salesmaen said what you need to try is a 535 with an M package. It has more power + the 5 differnt driving modes. I would never have figured that out if I had shopped on the internet.
As to driving a few hundered miles to save $100 or even $300 bucks. Maybe if I was buying a $20K car that would be significant. I did save closer to $6K by buying at a dealership 30 minutes further than my closest dealer....so, that I think was significant.
I don't know how you test a car or ask a question unless you look at the car at a dealership...which means you are getting a salesperson to do a lot of work for you, when you don't intend to buy from him.
I think you are entitled to buy a car however you want to, but you have to be fair too.
Driver,
Nobody's driven 100 miles to save 300 dollars. $500 most will ...$ 1000 for a 3 hrs drive for sure.
IM me before your next car purchase and i will give you some tips on saving money. below is a quick summary.
Getting a good deal on a new vehicle can be achieved many ways. I have found over many years of buying cars the quickest and most effiecient way to buy with the least amount of nonsense is;
1- Do your homework first before you negotiate price. Test drives and price negotiations are done on different days. 1st step is... Test drives, desired vehicle info, calling your Ins. co. and getting outside financing approved. All targeted dealerships you need there doc fee charge, any incentives, and the internet mgr. email and direct phone number. You do this in the first 2 weeks of the month.
Once you decide on your exact make and model you then target as many dealerships as your willing to travel in state and out of state. The more dealerships you get involved the better you will do with price. This will help you figure out your area's pricing and what you could get.
2- Negotiations start 3rd week by via email / phone calls to every dealerships internet manager with your target price to buy that day. Wrapping up your deal the last days of the month.. If your target price is not met then maybe you have to raise your target price to buy at months end. When i'm buying I start the last 2 days of any month and go down my list of targeted dealerships hoping to find the dealerships that are still looking to meet there monthly sales incentives.
There is no reason to step foot in any dealership again unless you have negotiated a fair price to buy your desired vehicle. Dealerships that are not internet friendly or want me to come down for pricing get removed off my targeted list.. Trade in vehicles you need to go to your target dealerships for pricing. I like to target higher volume dealerships 3 or 5 dealerships that are giving me the best price for the new vehicle.. Most dealers around my area are giving you galves pricing. Always best to sell private you will lose on the trade in especially if your getting a real good deal on the new vehicle. Cant have it both ways..
This is how i buy so many vehicles... emails and direct phone calls to the internet mgrs..... This cuts thru alot of bad dealerships full of lies and there nonesense. I cut the middle man out .. Honda , Toyota, Nissan, Ford , Hyundia, Kia , Gm. are the dealerships that my system works best.
If you would rather drive from one dealer to the next finding a fair price thats fine but prepare yourself for the big sales pitches and waiting around game// let me speak to my mgr 5x..
I find the new generation salesman to be lazy not knowing there product , pricing or Incentives. These young folks cant answer the easiest questions how in the world are they going to sell me a vehicle. They cant... Most of these sales kids have no sales skills what so ever. They resort to lies and twisting truths to lure you in and holding you there to the real negotiator/ mgr. comes to close the deal.... The car industry takes advantage of the un-educated buyers with there shamless tactic's. These folks have nobody to blame but themselves for not educating themselves.
I could sit in any dealership and do the same thing I do on the phone. I'd rather buy my vehicles in the comfort of my own home buying on my terms making my best deal within a certain mile radius . This is what i find to be the best way to buy.. Its not for everyone thou.
Just to answer you question about being fair and treated right. ... If i go to test drive a vehicle and i'm not buying a vehicle for someone else... I tell that salesperson that in 2 weeks when i decide on vehicle and price you will recieve a call from me to present your manager with my offer to buy said vehicle that day. That dealership has the first crack at earning my business before i go down my target list of dealersdhips the following day. Good salesman that dont earn my business i always make sure i call his/ her boss to let them know he/ she did a outstanding job and i will come back on my next purchase to see if you could re earn my business. If i'm within a reasonable number the first dealer will get my business.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Abacomike said:
3 left out of 20 hires after 2 months? That's almost as bad as school bus drivers. We usually lose 50% once they get their CDL license from our paid training. Another 25% are gone after a year when they realize that $23/hour isn't that great if the school only gives you 15 hours of work.
"spiffs"
That answers a long standing question I've had as to why salespeople hate doing custom orders from the factory.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
On the other hand, you're dealing with Canadians, people who are incapable of being mean. Try dealing with Isell's American grinders and you'd be throwing chairs in a week (tried putting a smiley face here).
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"I could sit in any dealership and do the same thing I do on the phone. I'd rather buy my vehicles in the comfort of my own home buying on my terms making my best deal within a certain mile radius . This is what i find to be the best way to buy.. Its not for everyone thou."
Brian, your method(s) for buying a new car is one way to buy a new car. There are many variations to your approach, all of which work for some buyers, but not for others. The best way to buy a new car for most people depends solely on the following:
*personality of the buyer
*time constraints - how much time the person has to get the new car, i.e., was the car totaled in an accident and the replacement is needed immediately; how much time does the individual have to devote to buying his car, etc.
*how important is it to the individual to save $100-$500 on a new car - to some people, unless they can save $500 or more on a car by shopping, calling, negotiating, it may not be worth the effort.
*many people prefer buying from the closest dealership where they have done business before and have a relationship with management and service and a salesman who fights to get the best pricing for the new car.
There are many other variables that determine how an individual chooses to buy their new cars.
If there is a trade involved, it changes everything. You suggest selling the trade privately. That is not always the best approach. Some people don't want to deal with newspaper ads and potential buyers coming to their homes to see the car. I would never, ever engage in selling my trades privately. In many States, if you trade in the car, you don't pay sales tax on the value of the trade - which at $25,000 can save well over $1700. For me, it's well over $2500-$3000.
So, depending on all the variables, your approach to buying new cars may work for you while it may not be the best approach for someone else.
There are many ways to buy a car and get a great deal - yours is not the only way because it may not fit an individual's lifestyle, availability of time, their personality, etc.
For me, I love shopping for new cars and the negotiating - remember, I sold cars for a living. But my way is not the best way for others.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
"On the other hand, you're dealing with Canadians, people who are incapable of being mean. Try dealing with Isell's American grinders and you'd be throwing chairs in a week"
There is some truth to what you say OF. Where I worked (and still live), you find out quickly that dealing with retired people in their late 70's and early 80's is like working with alligators posing as pet turtles - they look cute, they act sheepish, but once negotiations start, the car salesman is their next meal!
I learned quickly that you have to keep in mind that this type of customer has purchased 20-30 cars in their lifetime and the only thing standing between them and their new car is the car salesman. So, the process can get ugly rather quickly.
I always tried to stay calm with these types of antagonists (buyers), but it was like being an early Christian having been thrown into the arena by the Romans as the lions circled in for the kill. (Don't you just love my metaphors!)
Their first offer on the new car was usually $2000 below our invoice. I used to sit there after they made an offer like that and hallucinate about taking out a bazooka and putting a rather quick, but noisy end to their lives and simultaneously put an end to my anguish and frustration. But alas, it was just wishful thinking.
I always sold people like that a car and they always loved me for getting them their car for invoice. The worst part about those kind of sales is that they would refer all their friends and neighbors to me so I had to go through the same contortions over and over again.
My nickname at the dealership became the Social Security Kid. It was tough living that name down.
So, if you think Isell had it bad, consider my plight in the business dealing with these types of buyers. Just thinking about those experiences gets my TRIGGER FINGER twitching.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Just my two cents.
Having bought vehicles for decades, the best deal can never be assured without visiting a dealer.
The internet is essential for information gathering and for identifying the better dealerships. Every dealer has their objectives. While it is true they all pay about the same for each vehicle, any dealer may have a more favorable motive at any given time. The internet will often reveal such dealers
However, any dealer is far more likely to deal best when the customer is actually in the store.
The car buying process is simple. Many who post on Edmunds tend to complicate the process through a seemingly endless series of unnecessary steps.
Personally, I research and develop a price strategy, including trade, fees, and financing. I contact dealers and inform them of my goals. I choose the dealer I find most attractive. I then visit to complete the sale. Sometimes there will be be a stumble of two, like the trade value. However, almost always we reach a deal. I believe this works for me. And for the salesperson
Good!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
@karhill, car buying or any kind of purchase for that matter is very simple at its core. A car is worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay and what the willing seller willing to sell. If the price is not right for either party, there is no sale period!
It does not matter how slick or how elaborate the sales presentation, if in the buyer's mind the price is not right for them, they will walk.
I guess, since I have been in sales for a number of year I would find that very unfair. Some person is going to waste my time, use a dealers facilities (which are often worth $millions, just to figure out what car he wants), and then shop around for the cheapest car he can find.
I just couldn't do that. Brian may think he is being smart.......I find that people who do this type of thing usually end up paying more in the long run. They may not know about some feature they should have bought, they don't get help if something goes wrong, they don't build relationships. They could even lose big time trying to sell their trade-in privately...and how do you coordinate the trade in and picking up the new car? Lots wrong with Brian's methods.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Brian,if it works for you go with it. I have observed several people lately who try to save themselves money and it ends up costing more in the long run. Briefly, here are reasons why I wouldn't use this method for buying a car:
You will have to sell your trade in yourself. This can be very risky. You could lose a lot more than you think you will save.(One guy here put his car on Ebay, they guys came, went for a test drive, and killed him) Man killed selling truck
How will you coordinate selling your used car privately - and btw - putting money into it to get it up to standard, and taking delivery of your new car. Who is going to drive you 300 miles to pick up the new car...and don't forget to take a brief case with you with all your paperwork and personal items you will want in the new car.
You won't develop a relationship with your dealer. I can email my sales rep any questions I have about my bmw and I get a reply usually the same day. We had a problem with my wife's bluetooth on her Audi, the dealer kept after it until it was working.....management called to make sure we were pleased with the service.
You will buy from the dealer/salesperson who shows you the car in the beginning, but, you expect him to match the price of a dealer who can make a sale, for doing nothing. The dealer you went to originally, has to pay his sales staff, he has to maintain a dealership with all the associated costs....advertising, taxes etc., and you expect him to match a dealer who spent almost nothing to sell you a car.
I like to build a relationship with my dealer. When I had my Jeeps the dealer would sell me a new car at the lowest possible price, and they gave me a fair price for my trade. No work involved, no game playing. I didn't have to worry about selling my trade in privately, or trying to match up the day I took delivery with how to get around. As Mike pointed out, in most places you will lose the difference in sales tax too...which is a lot to make up.
If it works for you...then go with it. I prefer to buy my car from a knowledgeable sales person who may even help me to make a better decision about what I should buy....and could even save me more money than you will save buying on the internet.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Do not underestimate the power of human stupidity.
If they were desperate they might not have thought of that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Again getting each additional 1 MPG is costlier than the previous 1 MPG increase. So it will get more expensive or result in smaller lighter cars with less powerful engines.
Remember that the 'A' in CAFE is average, that means for every Grand Caravan that Dodge sells that is rated at 40 MPG they will need to sell several 60+ MPG rated cars or pay fines.
With the average car now costing more than half the average yearly family income it will getting tight for many families.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You probably lose a certain percentage the first time that they drive a bus load of those lovely creatures called children.
Remember my bus driver who threw his keys on my desk and said that driving a Jeep in Vietnam was a picnic compared to driving a school bus?
Richard
abacomike,
Agreed with alot of things you noted on buying. Its not for everyone. Not many can buy the way I do. I'm not looking for a relationship with any saleperson. My research prior to my personal buying answers all questions I need to know.. I'm driven by getting best price in a targeted area... Once you get a dealers bottom line price you decide buy closer to my house for more $ or travel further to save.
I did say if you had a trade in you need to drive from one dealer to the next for best price. For me and I also buy expensive vehicles if a dealer wont give me a fair trade. I sell private. My vehicles are usually sold prior to my next purchase.
Driver,-..... Sorry but all the things your talking about with buying a new vehicle/ Trades/ salespeople relationships, are non factores for me , family and friends on the models i suggested. Toyota, Honda , Ford, Nissan , Gm, etc. On a personal note : learning all about a certain vehicle is done prior to your purchase.
Bmw, MB, and a few others dealerships are a different approach on how to buy.
On the trade front trading back to a dealer is time consuming for me.. I keep my vehicles for only 4 years at best and most are in pristine condition/ garaged. Most of my vehicles I sell prior to my new Vehicle purchase. I may start looking to sell 4 months before I'm buying my next purchase. Never had a problem mostly friends, or someone who knows me grabs one one My vehicles. One of my golfing buddies has bought 3 of my cars over the years another bought 2..
There is no wrong and right way to buy, Only what works best for you is what counts.. My way nets me the best results with the least amount of dealer nonesense the past 43 years.
Hey Mike on a more serious note.. How about.......... UCONN.. never thought they were going to beat Florida last night...........The Big East is back
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
"Agreed with alot of things you noted on buying. Its not for everyone. Not many can buy the way I do."
No, not many can buy the way you do nor would they want to buy the way you do. The same is true for my approach to buying cars .
It appears that you spend up to 4 months buying a new car and trying to sell your existing car, at least that is what you said. To any people, TIME IS MONEY! There is no way I would spend more than a week buying a new car - I don't like the process nor the traveling and the time consumption.
If I am ready to buy a new car (which is about ever year, sometimes less as my buddies here well know), I buy like this:
*go to dealer's new car lot and pick out something I might like (I don't go into the store - I just browse)
*go online to mbusa.com and read their specs and I build a car to get what I want
*go onto to Edmunds and read their reviews of the car. Then I build the car adding the options I desire. I get an approximate invoice (it's usually a tad different than actual invoice)
*i go onto Manheim and find out what my trade is going for at their auction. I do the same with NADA's Black Book. I then add $2000 to that value because that is about what I usually get from my dealer
*I check out USAA's car buying pricing (usually it's $3000-$4000 under dealer invoice) and I print out my certificate for their fleet discount.
*I then go to MBCA (Mercedes Club) and print out my $500 certificate
*I call my dealer's manager and I make an appointment - I go in - I test drive the car I wanted - and usually 20 minutes later I get my price and the numbers I want for my trade
I then drive home with my new car.
Case closed!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I agree with your methods.
I try hard to ignore Brian but reading his postings makes me realize that getting out of the business when I did was a good thing to do. Too many "Brians" out there that have ruined the business.
"Life is too short to be little"
And that research probably means a trip to your local dealer to take a test drive, sit in the car, ask a few questions etc. When your dealer goes out of business one day you will be crying the loudest that you have to travel 100 miles to test drive a car.....which you can add to the cost of your way of doing business.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You'd think that the kids would be what causes new hires to quit driving but not so much. Some just use the school to get free CDL training, never having any intention of driving kids but most leave when they find that they could never live on what bus driving pays. It's a great part time job but a lousy full time one.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Having read "wolfie's" pompous declaration, and the subsequent comments to him (there and here), it brings to mind more than few thoughts I have on the topic, but here's just a couple. First, he managed to epitomize the basic root of any car shopper's concerns when darkening the doors of a car dealer. Fear isn't the right word, but aside from that, he answers his own question in the name of his discussion. 'Discussion'. Ha.
And secondly, every time I see a salesman (actively employed or retired) refer to an automotive dealership as a "store" (a newly coined marketing term for a car dealership that has only been in use for less than a decade), I just wanna spit in contempt. Ford has been doing this with their television ads for a couple years now. "Visit your Ford store". pffftttt. A car dealership is not a store! It is a dealership in the absolute purest sense of the word, and to refer to it in any other way in some misdirected attempt to ease concerns of straightforward transactions that could suggest a customer need not ensure their guard is active, only indicates, IMO, a greater need for that customer to not relax "while I sit you down to massage the dollars from your pocket". The idea of course is that if it is referred to as a 'store' it is supposed to be considered a less threatening term than 'dealer' which is where 'deals' and 'wheeler-deals' are done....the 'sales dance' if you like.
So....salespersons that refer to their car dealership as a store, automatically lose credibility in my books because immediately they fall into that "trust me" (as has already been discussed) class of sales. Was it nycarguy? whose friend (at the Toyota dealership) promptly and astutely countered, when his previous salesman had been replaced with Mr. TrustMe, told him that he could 'trust' him. The response was pure poetry. And of course the insincere sales dance that followed when his choice in car and form of payment was not acknowledged (at all) by the salesman and the SM, just further supports why I state that...even with today's modern automotive dealership, these car dealerships are not stores...they are dealers. The only aspect of a car dealer that could be considered store-like would be their parts dept. And even there, 'deals' and parts costs are negotiated if you opt to have the dealer do the installations.
Building a relationship with the dealer might work for you and mike who buy regularly but what good does it do me to develop a relationship with the Mitsu dealer when I buy a Ford?
I think you worry too much about Craigslist killers coming to test drive. Yeah that happens but probably more people get car jacked just driving down the street.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
mike
Again I agree with you on the sale part.. Time factor is money. I do the same price infoing. and research you do but over the phone for the sale... I could nail down a good price within minutes of calling my target dealerships or 1 hour doing this from my home.. Hot new models may be more of a challege. Again MB and Bmw are negotiated differently A faxed buyers order to my house seals the deal holding with a credit card deposit.. Call me when my car is ready for pick up or if dealer is close drive right down to the store. In 43 yrs. dealing with many dealerships I can just call alot of mgrs. and get what i need pricewise. . I have gave dealerships hundreds of sales and probably thousands with folks taken my advice on certain dealerships. That is my perks for never taken a dime from friends and folks and giving certain dealerships business.
I may start to put out feelers for the posible sale for my out going cars months ahead of time. My new car search is done 2 weeks prior to my sale. For intsance. I already know for 2016 the posiible cars i want. Genesis , or S6, and another ML 350 for my wife. Until the month i'm buying i do nothing but read up on reviews and maybe reconsider one of my choices. I have been buy 4 new vehicles every 4 to 5 years. Now that my youngest daughter is out and on her own i'm down to 3 vehicles next turn around.
If you ask me to buy you a new vehicle. I will tell you Mike once you decide on your exact make and model have finance in place... make a list of all the dealerships you are willing to travel to with name and number/ email of that dealers internet mgr. I will negotiate your best deal from that list or tell you.......... what i feel is a good price.
My way is about saving valuable Time... Time is money. Thats why how I buy is the least time consuming for me. Do you think it would be possible to buy over 1000 vehicles in my day for myself, family, and friends of friends if this was a drawn out process. I would be nuts.. many think I am ...lol.... Its quick easy and effiecient with the least amount of nonesense. I do consider myself a expert negotiator thats what makes this process very easy.
My track record speaks for itself.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Oh, I suppose I've used the term "Dealership" and "Store" without thinking one thing about it.
It sounds like you think...
Dealership = A bad thing
Store = Not a bad thing.
Personally, I think it would be a good thing if car dealerships all sold their cars for a fixed price.
I will say that I used to despise car dealerships and never dreamed that someday I would actually work in one. Had I not picked the rare family owned store that I did work in I know I wouldn't have lasted a week.
Crkyolfrt, you and everyone else here is entitled to an opinion, no matter what that opinion might be. You seem so bitter and angry, that you have lost sight of everything that has anything to do with buying a selling cars.
A store is a place you go to buy something. It might be Macy's, Walmart, Loews, Target, Joseph A. Bank, Publix, Winn Dixie, Giant, etc. Those are stores because they sell things in their stores. To call them anything else but a store is stupidity, in my opinion.
Now, let's look at the car dealership. It has cars on the lots, cars in the service department and cars in the showroom. They also have a Parts Store where you can buy parts, novelties, even clothing and jewelry now. I do not consider any part of a car dealership to be a store EXCEPT for the showroom. You can call it anything you want to call it, but it is still a store where you look, try on for size and style and fit, and where you price the vehicle. If that's not a store, then Richard and I will have to give up on the English language and how words are defined.
Now after having said that, when I was a sales manager (not a salesman), the owner would always tell me to make sure to lock up the store no later than 9:00 PM.
I didn't usually say that to my employees - actually it was the showroom I was closing up - but the showroom is the STORE part of any dealership.
So, you can add me to your list of FAVORITE HATES! It would be a true honor, believe me because I can't tolerate angry people who are vindictive, obnoxious and bitter!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I couldn't (and didn't) have said that any better!
Sometimes I find myself missing the business but a couple of posters here make me SO GLAD I'm out of it!
Brian, I don't know you, we've never met, but I've read your posts with sincerity. Your posts sound a bit egotistical - too egotistical for me to entrust to you the process of getting me the best possible price on a new 2016 Mercedes Benz E550 in November of 2015. No one, and I mean no one, gets Mercedes Benz cars for what I pay for them - NO ONE! My dealer is willing to sell me cars for his dead invoice - without negotiating with him. This last one I bought, I paid $5500 under invoice.
You do not know how I deal with my dealer, or any other dealer I buy cars from. When I bought BMW's, I bought them for invoice because I was in the business at that time and most of the managers in the dealership knew who I was because we attended conferences and conventions together.
But can I get you or anyone else a new Mercedes or BMW for what I pay for them? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I won't and can't work hard to get you or anyone else a car for what I pay for them. My dealership won't price the same car at the same price as I paid for anyone else. Believe me, I've tried.
I am not bragging, I am just telling you a set of facts.
Was I the best car salesman that ever lived? NO! Was I the best dealership manager that ever lived? NO! But I did my job day in, day out, and was appreciated for what I did.
Brian, become a little less egotistical in your posts, a little less overbearing, and people like me might read them in a different light - you never know!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Isell said;
I try hard to ignore Brian but reading his postings makes me realize that getting out of the business when I did was a good thing to do. Too many "Brians" out there that have ruined the business.
Isell..... you seem to forget something.. Your auto industry set up this buying system msrp/ invoice price thing.. I play by the rules you guys set up. Stop being a hater. In NY / NJ there are over 100 honda dealerships within my area that i could by a Accord.. Makes no difference to me where i buy your product from other than getting the better pricing . Or how far i want to travel.. What dont you seem to get? i have just as much right to save a buck as you deserve to make. . ......
Blame Honda not me for making your comapany's franchise like a subway sandwich shop.. Every 5 miles you find one in certain area's.
. Your dealership or store all sell the same product just like a Tv set or a Refrigerator or a mattress, or microwave. I'm going to review to see what models are rated the best and go find the cheapest place to buy it closest to my house.. If you live in a rural area with supply and demand working against you................... then handle it .
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Abacomike, your post came on pretty strong, and with a level of defensiveness that surprised me. I can only assume I hit a nerve that got a little too close to home with you.
Enlightening though, because earlier when I had been reading comments from the most frequent salesmen who have posted an opinion here on on wolfie's post, I had thought to myself that the only salesman I would consider purchasing from, was you. (FWIW, the 'retired' word I used was not used with you in mind because.. until your post above, I don't ever recall you referring to your old dealership as a store). Further, it seems like you were accusing me of being stupid even though I didn't say that any of those other stores that you mentioned were not stores. Those were your words and choices. Of course they are stores. Putting words in my mouth will not strengthen your stance to anyone reading who can think for themselves.
In any event, since you have labelled me "vindictive, obnoxious and bitter" (in BOLD, no less) and since I do not live with my head in the sand, I can safely say I am glad I have never darkened the doors of your showroom back in the day and wouldn't today if you were to get back into the biz.
Usually for such a level of defense to raise its ugly head, there are reasons of potential validation and truth in what one has suggested, and hence cause that level of defense.
Actually, Isell, I do miss it a little. It sure wasn't very boring - every day was different from the day before or the next day. It was a delight to work with numerous different people from different walks of life. I enjoyed talking about their families, their children, their jobs, etc. I enjoyed sharing information about vacation spots and restaurants in the area.
I wanted to get to know my customers - I didn't want to "sell" them a car, I wanted them to "buy" one from me. There is a difference between the two approaches. Selling people something puts you at a disadvantage - you have to "convince" people that they should buy the make and model I was selling in my "store". The other approach is to truly listen to people, get to know them, be honest and sincere with them - yes it take time and sincerity, but it is all worth it in the end.
If you treat your customers the same - by the same I mean "sell" them a car - you will not succeed in the car business. Each and every customer needs to be treated differently because each one has a different reason for being in the showroom - some are just looking, some are checking out the dealership, and some are actually there to buy a car. I don't treat the "looker" the same as the "buyer" or the "sizer-upper". As the right questions, remember how they answered those questions, and get to really know them.
I miss that part of car sales. What I don't miss is the stress from management or dealer principals who see nothing but dollar signs. Where they saw $$$$, I saw the potential to sell a car and make a friend - some of them became good friends of mine and still call me to help them buy cars. I won't shop with them, but I do give them advice.
Isell, I am sure you miss that part of car sales - it's great!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
isell, your second post was just a another predictable 'me too' post..
That said, I admired your level of restraint in your first post, but I see that you still count't help yourself from calling it a store in that very post.
I think you read too much into my post, crkyolfrt. You need to reread your post again - not from your own perspective, but from the perspective of a new poster coming to SFTSF for the very first time. If you don't see the anger and acidity in your post the way I did, then I am thrilled you never came into my store.
On the other hand, if you are honest with yourself, reread your post with "objectivity", you will see where Isell and I are coming from.
So, after taking a bit of time to reread your post, assess how others might respond to it? OK?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
abacomike said,
Brian, become a little less egotistical in your posts, a little less overbearing, and people like me might read them in a different light - you never know!
Mike - I never quetiones your ability to get good pricing. Your not the guy who needs my help. Its the uneducated buyer. Thats was my point.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I must be missing something.. A Car Dealership IS a store where people go to buy things.
You can buy an oil filter or a car.
I don't understand why you feel so strongly about this?
I've never stopped to think about it but I know I have used both terms.