Stories from the Sales Frontlines

nyccarguy

GM. Where to begin? After driving a 2004 BMW X5 3.0i w/ sport package, then a 2007 BMW X5 3.0si w/ sport package, my Dad bought himself a 2010 LTZ Tahoe. He liked it so much that when he had the opportunity to buy a leftover 2011 Tahoe in February 2012 (with 0% Financing), he jumped on it. He LOVES his truck. He said it is the smoothest riding vehicle he's ever owned (next to my Mom's former 2011 Cayenne). It has literally been back to the dealer ONCE for a warranty repair. Besides its smooth ride, serious 4WD capability, handsome looks, & minimal maintenance costs, the Tahoe has plenty of space for my Dad's 6' 3" frame & his 2 Great Danes (Maddie 7 & Ariel 9 months). Not only has Chevrolet jacked up the price of a similarly equipped 2015 LTZ Tahoe to almost $70K, but they raised the bottom of the rear floor (5") to make it "flat" with all the seats folded. All the height inside so the dogs can stand up is GONE! Way to go GM!

ab348

@nyccarguy said:
GM. Where to begin? After driving a 2004 BMW X5 3.0i w/ sport package, then a 2007 BMW X5 3.0si w/ sport package, my Dad bought himself a 2010 LTZ Tahoe. He liked it so much that when he had the opportunity to buy a leftover 2011 Tahoe in February 2012 (with 0% Financing), he jumped on it. He LOVES his truck. He said it is the smoothest riding vehicle he's ever owned (next to my Mom's former 2011 Cayenne). It has literally been back to the dealer ONCE for a warranty repair. Besides its smooth ride, serious 4WD capability, handsome looks, & minimal maintenance costs, the Tahoe has plenty of space for my Dad's 6' 3" frame & his 2 Great Danes (Maddie 7 & Ariel 9 months). Not only has Chevrolet jacked up the price of a similarly equipped 2015 LTZ Tahoe to almost $70K, but they raised the bottom of the rear floor (5") to make it "flat" with all the seats folded. All the height inside so the dogs can stand up is GONE! Way to go GM!

Changes to the 2015 model aside, the rest of your post makes a good point. The slagging of 1980s-era GM cars really misses the point. All of the domestics made more than their share of crap cars back then. And not even just the domestic makers. They call it the malaise era for a reason. Every car company has good models and not-so-good models.

driver100

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
Nope - the J was the Cavalier, etc.

Celebrity, et al were the A-class.

X-class was the Citation.

F-type were the Camaro and Firebird.

You just reminded me why I find it hard to take GM seriously.

driver100

@MrShift@Edmunds said:September 17, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Terrorists dressed as military officials attack the U.S. Embassy

That's quite a list. I am glad I don't have a job as a diplomat in any of those countries.

robr2

@driver100 said:
That's quite a list. I am glad I don't have a job as a diplomat in any of those countries.

My understanding is that you either work hard to get those postings because they are where diplomats feels they can do some good or you work hard to get through those postings in order to get assigned to Paris, London, Geneva, Ottawa, et al.

imidazol97

@abacomike said:
BENGHAZI STILL SMOKING

Who cares if there was a cover-up perpetrated by the Obama White House.

I care for the sake of the young people who have to live in this country for another 60 years or more. Hopefully it survives. Nixon was under impeachment for much, much less than this guy.

It will all come out in the end - but the criminality reeks over the fact that no one has been arrested (let alone indicted) regarding these murders.

The reason it hasn't been a big deal for 5 years about the misrepresentation and lies along with lack of transparency promised is this:

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gmc11844720140501083500.jpg

Lest someone claim this is Fox News, check on the email by WH advisor Ben Rhodes that has finally leaked out. He's the brother of David Rhodes, CBS chief executive. Guess which network competely ignored the exposure of this damning email? Right! You got it! CBS.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/01/cbs-evening-news-ignores-white-house-benghazi-email-sent-by-cbs-presidents-brother/

I'm really glad we have the internet to look for truth beyond what the anti-Fox stations allow us to "learn." I look to all sources to glean information. Suppose we were only allowed to buy certain cars that the TV major networks wanted us to be able to buy? And the government/networks only allowed information about those particular cars. Only from their donors and friends. Food for thought for open minds:
http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2014/05/02/118458

bwia

MORE ON GM AND FORD

For the quarter ended March 31, 2014, GM's sales revenue were $37.4 billion but profits were a measly $100 million. Overall, GM's profits are down 88% from the previous 2013 quarter, thanks to a $1.3 billion charge related to recalls and warranty costs. By the way, GM lost (0.6%) market share which translates to about 10,000 vehicles that went to someone else.

By comparison, Ford's sales revenue were $35.9 billion and profits $989 million. Like GM, Ford has increased its warranty expenditures by $400 million.

Comparable metrics are not yet available for Chrysler and Toyota but Toyota continues its world domination in sales volume.

graphicguy

@nyccarguy said:
GM. Where to begin? After driving a 2004 BMW X5 3.0i w/ sport package, then a 2007 BMW X5 3.0si w/ sport package, my Dad bought himself a 2010 LTZ Tahoe. He liked it so much that when he had the opportunity to buy a leftover 2011 Tahoe in February 2012 (with 0% Financing), he jumped on it. He LOVES his truck. He said it is the smoothest riding vehicle he's ever owned (next to my Mom's former 2011 Cayenne). It has literally been back to the dealer ONCE for a warranty repair. Besides its smooth ride, serious 4WD capability, handsome looks, & minimal maintenance costs, the Tahoe has plenty of space for my Dad's 6' 3" frame & his 2 Great Danes (Maddie 7 & Ariel 9 months). Not only has Chevrolet jacked up the price of a similarly equipped 2015 LTZ Tahoe to almost $70K, but they raised the bottom of the rear floor (5") to make it "flat" with all the seats folded. All the height inside so the dogs can stand up is GONE! Way to go GM!

NYC...it's been said before, if there's one thing GM knows how to do, it's to make great trucks. When I had my Tahoe (previous gen) I could safely say it was one of the most well built, trouble free vehicles I had ever owned.

But, geez-Louise....$70K for a new one? There are a wealth of vehicles I would be shopping for in that price range other than a Tahoe.

bwia

2015 Hyundai Genesis.

Interior is nice, grill Audi knock-off, exterior New Impala or Ford Fusion styling. Looks huge. In the age gas frugality a 15 MPG is irresponsible. Read full road test at Motor Trend.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1404_2015_hyundai_genesis_v8_first_test/photo_03.html

bwia

@graphicguy said:
But, geez-Louise....$70K for a new one? There are a wealth of vehicles I would be shopping for in that price range other than a Tahoe.

That's exactly the point I made in my original post. GM's vehicles are 20% overpriced. I know the price of a product should cover all of its costs but consumers should not have to pay for GM's inefficacies and miscues.

houdini1

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
There's no smoking gun. It's called the "fog of war" and everyone did the best they could with what they knew. Our military has re-affirmed this. There was no help for these people anyway--it was over in a short time.

Alas, more time and money wasted for self-aggrandizing political gain at our expense. The world deteriorates, and we diddle to troll for votes . The government is truly broken.

PS: A number of foreign service people were killed 2000-2008. Who remembers poor David Foy at these hearings?

January 22, 2002. Calcutta, India. Gunmen associated with Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami attack the U.S. Consulate. Five people are killed.

June 14, 2002. Karachi, Pakistan. Suicide bomber connected with al-Qaida attacks the U.S. Consulate, killing 12 and injuring 51.

October 12, 2002. Denpasar, Indonesia. U.S. diplomatic offices bombed as part of a string of “Bali Bombings.” No fatalities.

February 28, 2003. Islamabad, Pakistan. Several gunmen fire upon the U.S. Embassy. Two people are killed.

May 12, 2003. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Armed al-Qaida terrorists storm the diplomatic compound killing 36 people including nine Americans. The assailants committed suicide by detonating a truck bomb.

July 30, 2004. Tashkent, Uzbekistan. A suicide bomber from the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan attacks the U.S. Embassy, killing two people.

December 6, 2004. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Al-Qaida terrorists storm the U.S. Consulate and occupy the perimeter wall. Nine people are killed.

March 2, 2006. Karachi, Pakistan again. Suicide bomber attacks the U.S. Consulate killing four people, including U.S. diplomat David Foy.

September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting “Allahu akbar” storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded.

January 12, 2007. Athens, Greece. Members of a Greek terrorist group called the Revolutionary Struggle fire a rocket-propelled grenade at the U.S. Embassy. No fatalities.

March 18, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Members of the al-Qaida-linked Islamic Jihad of Yemen fire a mortar at the U.S. Embassy. The shot misses the embassy
.
July 9, 2008. Istanbul, Turkey. Four armed terrorists attack the U.S. Consulate. Six people are killed.

September 17, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Terrorists dressed as military officials attack the U.S. Embassy. Sixteen people are killed, including an American student and her husband

The difference is that the administration stood up and took the blame for all those tragedies and did not try

to lie and put the blame on a video that no one had seen. Ease up on that Obama/msm cool aid.

oldfarmer50

@abacomike said:
SPEAKING OF GASOLINE PRICES

I had to run over to Ace Hardware to pick up some air handling unit filters (Ace is the only "place" that carries my size). Right next store I found a Chevron gas station selling Premium at $4.05.9 per gallon. That's the same price as Costco and about 15 cents a gallon less than most pump prices.

I never even knew there was a Chevron station there.

Oil prices are down, but pump prices have not reflected that. Interestingly enough (but no surprise), Exon Mobil recorded record profits for the 1st quarter. This seems to happen at least twice a year where gas prices shoot up for no apparent reason and the oil companies make a killing. Don't you just love it?

Chevron just announced a 27% drop in profits so not everyone is making a killing.

oldfarmer50

@abacomike said:
stickguy said:

"Celebrity was a J. Citation was an X body. X came first by a few years, and then they overlapped for a while before the X went away. "

The J bodies included the Celebrity, the Cutlas, etc. The J bodies were an improvement over the X bodies, but not much. I had a Cutlas which rode more like a Jeep Wrangler than a car.

Front wheel drive is what killed GM because they did not successfully build a chassis around the transverse mounted engines (mostly V6's) like the Japanese did. My Olds seemed to handle like there was something missing between the engine and the transmission.

Anyone else get that same feeling when driving the J chassis cars?

I always thought my Celebrity handled pretty well for the 80s. It was the Eurosport so it probably had stiffer suspension. Had pretty good power for a little 2.8L but required premium gas.

When I blew the engine I replaced it with a 2.8L from a station wagon which only needed regular and I noticed a lessening of performance.

Of course, back then I was buying the cheapest transportation I could find and had no experience driving better cars. So nothing to compare it to.

stickguy

Farmer, aren't you still buying the cheapest transportation you can find? Other than your bus of course!

graphicguy

@oldfarmer50 said:
Chevron just announced a 27% drop in profits so not everyone is making a killing.

oldfarmer....you know I'm going to be the contrarian about this....

Chevron voluntarily cut volume, either because demand wasn't there, or to prop up prices (probably both). They still earned $4.5 BILLION. I still consider that a "killing".

imidazol97

I'm confused. Is Mr.Shift saying all these examples parallel Benghazi by being covered up with ficticious explanations after alQaeda terrorists supposedly were on the run (false) all to benefit a president's election campaign? And the coverup was aided by the MSM.

@MrShift@Edmunds said: There's no smoking gun. It's called the "fog of war" and everyone did the best they could with what they knew. Our military has re-affirmed this. There was no help for these people anyway--it was over in a short time.

PS: A number of foreign service people were killed 2000-2008. Who remembers poor David Foy at these hearings?

January 22, 2002. Calcutta, India. Gunmen associated with Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami attack the U.S. Consulate. Five people are killed.

June 14, 2002. Karachi, Pakistan. Suicide bomber connected with al-Qaida attacks the U.S. Consulate, killing 12 and injuring 51.

October 12, 2002. Denpasar, Indonesia. U.S. diplomatic offices bombed as part of a string of “Bali Bombings.” No fatalities.

February 28, 2003. Islamabad, Pakistan. Several gunmen fire upon the U.S. Embassy. Two people are killed.

May 12, 2003. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Armed al-Qaida terrorists storm the diplomatic compound killing 36 people including nine Americans. The assailants committed suicide by detonating a truck bomb.

July 30, 2004. Tashkent, Uzbekistan. A suicide bomber from the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan attacks the U.S. Embassy, killing two people.

December 6, 2004. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Al-Qaida terrorists storm the U.S. Consulate and occupy the perimeter wall. Nine people are killed.

March 2, 2006. Karachi, Pakistan again. Suicide bomber attacks the U.S. Consulate killing four people, including U.S. diplomat David Foy.

September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting “Allahu akbar” storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded.

January 12, 2007. Athens, Greece. Members of a Greek terrorist group called the Revolutionary Struggle fire a rocket-propelled grenade at the U.S. Embassy. No fatalities.

March 18, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Members of the al-Qaida-linked Islamic Jihad of Yemen fire a mortar at the U.S. Embassy. The shot misses the embassy . July 9, 2008. Istanbul, Turkey. Four armed terrorists attack the U.S. Consulate. Six people are killed.

September 17, 2008. Sana’a, Yemen. Terrorists dressed as military officials attack the U.S. Embassy. Sixteen people are killed, including an American student and her husband

laurasdada

@abacomike said:
fezo said:

"I think the J is to the X as the Monza is to the Vega."

One of my best HS friends drove a white Vega. We called it the Vegatable... Probably typical, was rusting as it was driven off the showroom floor. Time came to sell it, he cleaned it up real nice. Buyers on their way, he decided to start it up to make sure it would do so. It did, and promptly caught fire. He threw dirt from the driveway onto the engine to douse the flames. Did as quick and best a cleanup as he could. And, sold it.

Replaced by a black and gold Olds Starfire. Which, to my knowledge, did not combust externally! Rectangular headlights, too cool...

jwilliams2

MrShift said: INTERESTING THING ON DIPLOMATS: I had a friend being considered for a post. Some embassy posts are political payoff IF the assignment is not very important; however, no major embassy position goes to amateurs. You wont' find "the presidents 2nd cousin" in Geneva or Paris or Rome, but you might find him in Malta.

You forgot to mention Tokyo....

imidazol97

I have an app called World Newspapers--i checked this morning all major american newspapers (online) and all English speaking foreign press of any consequence and nobody, but nobody, is talking "benghazi" except Fox News...that should tell you all you'll ever need to know about where this is going. (hint: "nowhere")

Lots of hits when I google it for foreign papers. I am not sure how to google for foreign languages.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/andrewbolt/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/the_memo_which_shows_the_white_house_lying_about_benghazi/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618834/Former-National-Security-Council-spokesman-blows-Benghazi-Dude-like-two-years-ago.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2617960/Air-Force-general-testifies-military-tried-save-lives-Benghazi-Nancy-Pelosi-calls-renewed-attention-distraction-subterfuge.html

http://www.businessinsider.in/John-Kerry-Is-Getting-Subpoenaed-About-Benghazi/articleshow/34544604.cms

Of course CBS now has headlines that this is meant to mislead, "Why the New Benghazi Emails Aren't a Smoking Gun." They're trying to push the cover-up of the cover-up since CBS's brother is the Top White House guy who sent the email that finally got released. Sort of like the Nixon tapes that no one knew about for a time.

CBS is trying to help the admin out of their web of lies, but the cover-up of the cover-up isn't well worked out. And then there's the stalling in releasing of the information in the dribble method, hoping that people will not be as interested after a year when new evidence finally comes unhidden. The other networks at least have people asking questions at the news conferences with Carney. Poor CBS.

Just imagine how this would be working if the president were Republican. How would the news folks be treating the subject. Just like they did when Bush released the emails for 911?

I know. Maybe the admin can blame Bush. LOL

houdini1

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
I have an app called World Newspapers--i checked this morning all major american newspapers (online) and all English speaking foreign press of any consequence and nobody, but nobody, is talking "benghazi" except Fox News...that should tell you all you'll ever need to know about where this is going. (hint: "nowhere")

Wow, you should drop that app and just try to google Benghazi news. I got hits on N.Y. Times, L.A. Times, U.S.A Today, Wash. Post, Politico, and too many others to list. All within the last few hours. Even liberal Factcheck says there is a cover up. Eventually someone needs to resign and/or go to jail over this hot mess.

abacomike

@bwia said:

"That's exactly the point I made in my original post. GM's vehicles are 20% overpriced. I know the price of a product should cover all of its costs but consumers should not have to pay for GM's inefficacies and miscues."

BWIA, you mentioned that GM products are overpriced by 20%. Where did you get that information from? You mean to tell me a Cadillac XTS that sells for $60,000 is overpriced by $12,000? I don't understand that.

Look at a comparable Lincoln MKZ - that sells for the same price - you mean to tell me that the MKZ is worth $12,000 more than the Cadillac? Makes no sense to me, bwia. In all due respect, something just doesn't seem right!

roadburner

Exactly. If a Republican president had pulled this stunt(or used the IRS to harass liberal organizations, or knowingly lied about his legislative centerpiece, etc.) it would be on the front page, top of the fold in the NYT and WP for months- not to mention the lead story on ABC, CBS, CNN, and NBC 24/7...

roadburner

An excellent analysis of the President.

oldfarmer50

@stickguy said:
Farmer, aren't you still buying the cheapest transportation you can find? Other than your bus of course!

Well, maybe cheapER but not necessarily cheapEST. My last beater cost almost 3 times what my previous beater cost.

BTW, I saw a newer Mustang GT today in white (not my favorite color) and it looked really good with the black accents around the tail lights and bumper. Got me rethinking my color choices.

Maybe Mako1a is on to something.

oldfarmer50

@graphicguy said:
Chevron voluntarily cut volume, either because demand wasn't there, or to prop up prices (probably both). They still earned $4.5 BILLION. I still consider that a "killing".

Not a big fan of the oil companies but the government makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies.

oldfarmer50

@MrShift@Edmunds said:

INTERESTING THING ON DIPLOMATS: I had a friend being considered for a post. Some embassy posts are political payoff IF the assignment is not very important; however, no major embassy position goes to amateurs.

So ambassador to Japan Caroline Kennedy is a pro because..........

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50‌
could have been a California Special, one of my favorite models
bing.com/images/search?q=mustang+california+special+2014&id=921086CAA7620D1B2F02BB2B5ED7CB977C35A90D&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=921086CAA7620D1B2F02BB2B5ED7CB977C35A90D&selectedIndex=0

cdnpinhead

@houdini1 said: Eventually someone needs to resign and/or go to jail over this hot mess.

Right. In what world? Not the one I exist in.

I've become old enough to become an observer rather than a participant -- just watching the miserable parade go by.

I was a cynic when I was 25. I don't think there's a word for what I am now, or if there is, I'm certain that it represents a group with no present value whatever --back in the '50s it was communists, now it's politically-incorrect people and their numbers (and the definitions of them) increase daily.

Oh boy.

fezo

"I was a cynic when I was 25. I don't think there's a word for what I am now, or if there is,"

A curmudgeon?

fezo

rb - that was an interesting article, even as the author says comparing popes and presidents is not exactly something you can do.

I admit error in the 2008 primaries. I voted for him. Hillary would have been the better candidate and if Obama ended up as VP (a likely possibility) he'd have seen up close how it's done and might have made a better president after Hillary's 8 years.

This really caught my eye:

"Valerie Jarrett was once quoted saying he's so exceptionally gifted that he's been bored most of his life. It seems to me more likely an exceptionally gifted person would be exceptionally interested in and alive to the wonder and drama of things."

To me what she says there is he should be Bill Clinton, Clinton is exceptionally gifted and, especially after the debacle of the 94 election, really had learned to be president and was able to indeed be exceptionally interested and alive as president.

Be interesting to see if Hillary is cut of the same cloth because she will almost certainly be our next president.

houdini1

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
You have to stop taking American media seriously. It's really beyond awful.

Look carefully if I may suggest. You didn't read 10 different stories, you read the same story off the same feed 10X.

As for the WSJ point of view, I disagree vehemently. Those leaders with unflinching convictions usually end up as the worst demagogues. The more unbending, the more damage.

The point I was making is that you can read about Benghazi in more places than Fox News, as you had stated. The WSJ usually tries to tell it like it is, and in my opinion is one of the least biased of the so called MSM.

roadburner

MSN piles on?

abacomike

CAR SHOPPING DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO BUY SOMETHING

I had seen a Cadillac XTS on display in the shopping mall, but I never drove one or investigated building one. I know the owner of a Cadillac Dealership not far from me, so I went over there today to do some pre-shopping.

I met my friend there and he had one of his best salesmen go over everything with me.

I drove a sand colored car with saddle interior. The first thing I noticed was that it drove very nicely. It had 400+ hp in a 6 cylinder which was impressive. I believe this was the "V" something model.

What I missed was the blind spot monitors and lane departure system. From what I was told, they will be available next year. I was surprised that car ($68,000) did not have the array of safety features BMW, Audi, and Mercedes have.

The quality of the leather and interior materials was somewhat lacking compared to the other luxury sport sedans I mentioned above. The list of available options is short and and left me somewhat surprised. The transmission seemed quite adequate and the audio system was somewhat less impressive than Harman/Karmon. It had a single CD player.

The ON STAR system was very similar to BMW and Mercedes telematics. The electronics were somewhat pesky including the GPS and calling up readings. But I must admit that the car cornered as well, maybe a tad better than the E Class did. The power was unnerving out of a 3.8 L 6. The styling was great and I found the driver's seat more comfortable than my CLS. Much easier to get in and out of - both front and rear.

On the turnpike, it drove much smoother than my CLS. The pricing was pretty hefty for an American built car. I noticed no rattles and the noise cushioning was superior.

In summary, I would buy one once they have those radar systems for lane tracking and blind spot monitoring.

imidazol97

@abacomike said:
What I missed was the blind spot monitors and lane departure system. From what I was told, they will be available next year. I was surprised that car ($68,000) did not have the array of safety features BMW, Audi, and Mercedes have.

I looked at the XTS models. The Driver Awareness Package is $890:

Lane Departure Warning – Camera technology alerts driver when making unintended lane changes
Side Blind Zone Alert1 – Radar technology alerts driver to other vehicles in their blind spots
Rear Cross Traffic Alert – Alerts driver to oncoming traffic
Forward Collision Alert – Alerts driver to a possible rear-end collision
Visual and either audile or haptic alerts through the Safety Alert Seat 

It's optional on standard and luxury models; it's standard on Premium and Platinum models including the Premium V and Platinum V.

There also is a package with forward and rear collision avoidance along with smart cruise control and collision preparation.

If you were in a V model of the XTS, that means you had the dual turbo 3.6 engine.

abacomike

@imidazol97‌ said:

"I looked at the XTS models. The Driver Awareness Package is $890:"

Isn't that interesting - his best salesman and he did not know it was included in the car. Never once mentioned it to me! What can I say?

In that case, I guess in 18 months, I could be buying American again!

sterlingdog

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
You have to stop taking American media seriously. It's really beyond awful.

Look carefully if I may suggest. You didn't read 10 different stories, you read the same story off the same feed 10X.

As for the WSJ point of view, I disagree vehemently. Those leaders with unflinching convictions usually end up as the worst demagogues. The more unbending, the more damage.

I must be missing something new here on Edmunds. During the years that I have been on this thread, our hosts were moderators and peace keepers. When any of the posts bordered on political views, we were warned to digress to other topics. Most posters here know that I was active at one point in the Tea Party movement and that I am fairly conservative on most issues. For the last couple of years I have tried to keep my political views to myself. Because of you, we are now seeing many political posts in which posters are trying to defend their points of view. I feel that if this continues, it could be damaging to this thread.

I come here to read and post about cars, washing machines, and other fun topics. I don't come here to read about liberal views with which I do not agree. If I want the stress, there are plenty of other places that I can go to argue my views. Our lovely female host doesn't express her political views here. Our wonderful departed host, Tom, never did it either. He kept things in good order here. If this mode of posting continues, I am afraid that I'll have to bid farewell. I strongly feel that you need to evaluate your purpose here. I have to wonder if your supervisor(s) are aware of your political postings. If they condone your postings, then I have to assume that Edmunds is taking a liberal stand politically. In that case, I certainly would not wish to belong to such an organization. Naturally, I hope that this is not the case. I regret that I have had to post this, but it seems that your political postings have become a problem here, at least for me. I have not flagged your posts or contacted Edmunds. I am simply asking you to act thoughtfully and professionally in regard to those of us here who may not agree with your views.

Respectfully,
Richard64

driver100

@abacomike said: I know the owner of a Cadillac Dealership not far from me, so I went over there today to do some pre-shopping.

Geez, I must have lost track...the CLS is coming up to the 8 month period already.

Actually, I enjoyed your review of the CLS. The competition is fierce in that price category, even the new 2015 Genesis (2015s out already, they seem to come out earlier every year - in January they will probably have some 2016s coming out) gets terriffic reviews.

I'd consider a Caddie, but, I'd have to hear more good things about it, and I'd like to see what the residuals are like....what if I don't like it and want to go back to a Euro car? That would be a huge step to go back and to try to dump the Caddie...if it didn't work out, don't think I would want to chance it.

abacomike

@sterlingdog said:

"I must be missing something new here on Edmunds. During the years that I have been on this thread, our hosts were moderators and peace keepers."

Outstanding post, Richard. You are right on target. Hosts keep the threads appropriate - they don't voice their own political views.

I will join you in your concerns - if this is what Edmunds has become, then I don't want any part of this!!!

abacomike

@driver100 said:

"Actually, I enjoyed your review of the CLS. The competition is fierce in that price category, even the new 2015 Genesis (2015s out already, they seem to come out earlier every year - in January they will probably have some 2016s coming out) gets terrific reviews."

Driver, I reviewed the CADILLAC XTS, not a CLS! Are you sure you read the whole post?

imidazol97

@abacomike said:
Driver, I reviewed the CADILLAC XTS, not a CLS! Are you sure you read the whole post?

I do not guarantee my quick lesson I took on the options for the XTS from the site to have accurate information. I didn't try adding options, but I am not sure how it got to $80,000 and didn't have a driver awareness package. My Malibu has those options, lane change, blind spot, forward collision alert, side alert when backing out, and collision prep. I'll spend some more time on.

abacomike

@imidazol97‌ said:

"I do not guarantee my quick lesson I took on the options for the XTS from the site to have accurate information."

I checked it out - the package is $2390 and includes a bunch of safety options. The MSRP I came up with was $69,215. Definitely a competitor for my business in 18 months.

Mr_Shiftright

We should all stick to automobiles, well said.

@sterlingdog said:

abacomike

@MrShift@Edmunds‌ said:

"We should all stick to automobiles, well said."

I am as guilty as others for posting opinions that have absolutely nothing to do with cars.

I second the motion - let's stick to cars. I was just wondering what some new individual thinks when he enters this thread and reads about everything except cars?

Going off on a tangent about toilet plungers, wood cabinets or dishwashers is not a problem. But the politics, I believe, is inappropriate for this forum thread.

I am going to sit at the desk and try to remember some unique sales stories - stories I have not related before. After all, I sold in excess of 1000 new cars on my life as a car salesman, and thousands more as a sales manager.

Wish me luck - remembering some of those experiences is tough!

ab348

@imidazol97 said:
It's optional on standard and luxury models; it's standard on Premium and Platinum models including the Premium V and Platinum V.

I don't understand why it wasn't equipped with that anyway. Here in Canada you can only buy the V model in Premium and Platinum trims anyway, so it should have been there.

abacomike

@ab348‌ said:

"I don't understand why it wasn't equipped with that anyway. Here in Canada you can only buy the V model in Premium and Platinum trims anyway, so it should have been there."

That's correct! But this "ace" salesman obviously didn't realize that in the V model. It is an option - $2390 MSRP for the package.

It had to have it because the MSRP was $68,000+ on the car I drove.

I just did a spec on an XTS V with all the options available including that package and the special red paint and saddle/black leather. It's up near . $70K. USAA has a $4250 incentive on it for USAA members which brought the price down to $62500, which is a great price.

I just hope it's available when I am ready. I am in no hurry to buy a new car.

@driver100 said:

Driver, my CLS 550 just turned 5 months old, not. 8 months.

oldfarmer50

@explorerx4 said:
oldfarmer50‌
could have been a California Special, one of my favorite models

That looks very close to the one I saw right down to the scoops behind the door. Was that an option package or some special anniversary car?

bwia

@bwia said:

"That's exactly the point I made in my original post. GM's vehicles are 20% overpriced. I know the price of a product should cover all of its costs but consumers should not have to pay for GM's inefficacies and miscues."

@abacomike said: BWIA, you mentioned that GM products are overpriced by 20%. Where did you get that information from? You mean to tell me a Cadillac XTS that sells for $60,000 is overpriced by $12,000? I don't understand that.

Look at a comparable Lincoln MKZ - that sells for the same price - you mean to tell me that the MKZ is worth $12,000 more than the Cadillac? Makes no sense to me, bwia. In all due respect, something just doesn't seem right!

I may be off by a percentage or two but I stand by my assertion that GM's vehicles are 20% overpriced.
The fundamental pricing formula is cost plus mark-up unless the product is a luxury good that commands prestige pricing.

Neither Lincoln nor Cadillac has the cache of BMW 5/7 Series or MB E550/CLS/S Class to sell at the $68,000 price point. They can try, yes, but volume sales will suffer as a result. Using the XTS $68,000 MSRP and divide that by 1.20 is approximately $56,000; and that is what the XTS should sell for, and probably is, given GM's penchant for deep discounting.

ab348

In Canada the CLS starts at $85000. The cheapest S-class is $106,000. The cheapest BMW 7 series is over $99,000. The Cadillac is a bargain by comparison.

abacomike

@ab348‌ said:

"In Canada the CLS starts at $85000. The cheapest S-class is $106,000. The cheapest BMW 7 series is over $99,000. The Cadillac is a bargain by comparison."

You mean to tell me that the starting price of the CLS is $85,000 not including options? That would make the MSRP of my CLS in Canada over $100,000! That's about $18,000+ more than the MSRP here. Mine MSRP'd for $82,210. But because of the USSA pricing and my Mercedes Benz Club of America discounts, I ended up paying just over $70,000 +++ (tax, title, fees). That's quite a difference over Canada.

Yes, the Cadillac is a nicely priced car both here and in Canada.

ab348

That's what it says:

http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/canada/mpc/mpc_canada_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/cls-class/c218.flash.html#_int_passengercars:home:model-navi:c218