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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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bobst - if your method works, good for you.
tell me though, are you financing the vehicle? if so, would that be 3, 4, 5, 6yrs? just curious.
Well, maybe that was not a good example? I was thinking about a family vehicle which has extremely high competition, and thus, lower profit margin. I probably should have used an Accord LX or Fusion 4-cylinder as my example instead of the Explorer.
In the end, I was attempting to make 3 points:
1) With a mass-marketed highly-competitive bread-and-butter family car, I will probably believe I got a lousy deal if I purchased from the first dealer, and later discover there was incentive money which the dealer did not share with me.
2) Consumers, even engineering brainiacs who do all their research, do not necessarily have knowledge when new incentives are introduced to the dealers.
3) There are too many generalizations posing as facts within this forum. :mad:
Unless you're pulling our leg/s, you have confirmed why I went the internet route to start the car buying process the last two times I bought. They were very easy purchases and I'll try them again when the time comes.
I just didn't realize I was beating them up that bad but if you say so.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Riley: "You know, George, the ocean called. They're running out of shrimp."
George: "Oh yeah, Riley? Well, the jerk store called. They're running out of you!"
Personally, I don't have a problem with that type of selling method. It's kind of like going to our dentist - the hygenist cleans my teeth and the dentist checks them for problems.
Thinking back, we have bought cars at liner-closer stores and at other stores where we only dealt with one sales person, and all of the experiences were equally enjoyable.
Now if you are talking something like $50 then yes. But then I would buy at the last dealer for $50 over the lowest just to save the hassle of going back to the lowest. That is unless the last dealer does something to make me mad.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"...to answer your question no. That is unless I am buying something like a Bugatti."
So you've cross-shopped three Bugatti dealers in your area? :surprise:
By the way, since we are all kinda like brothers in here, so to speak, can I borrow your Bugatti..., whenever you buy one? I promise not to take it above 175.
No there has to be a bottom line price where no one else can get below it. If any deal can be beaten by a couple of hundred dollars than that deal could also be beaten by a couple of hundred dollars and so on and so forth. That just won't happen. You will eventually get to a bottom line price that might be matched but won't be beat.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I purchased a vehicle over three months ago, but I still haven't received a survey, even though I was told to expect one. It was a 2005 BMW purchased at a BMW store. I think both my sales guys deserve a good CSI score, and so I'm wondering why I haven't received one yet? Do some manufacturers limit this survey to only a random subset of their customers? :confuse:
I was just trying to fuel the conversation on there Mr Monroe, that was my reason for taking the shot across the bow at the computer/internet shoppers
Sure there has to be an alternate reality where I would be silly enough to shell out 1.4 million for a car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Dealer #1 may have a final price that has profit in it.
Dealer #2's final price might be break even
Dealer #3 may need a deal and may be willing to lose money to get a sale today, for whatever reason.
The only way you know you've reached a dealers bottom price is if they let you walk out on their number.
That doesn't mean some other dealer won't try to beat it for $100 dollars.
Its a sad way to do business, but it happens.
Well, you were probably an easy sale then.
Most of the time, liners are greenpea's, if they run into any trouble at all, the closer steps in.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If I don't know about that support money then of course I don't get it. No harm to the willing - I was always saying that. If I learn afterwards - I would not be mad at you - just myself. You did what you were supposed to do and I did not. Mind we are talking dealer incentive here, not customer's, which is completely different case - there it's your duty to tell me and pass all of it to me.
The problem it's likely that I will know about it prior visit - this info is not such a big secret, if you know what I mean. Anyone who takes their price search seriously will likely find that info somewhere. So if you take position that it's all yours (the incentive of course), I will probably let you keep it - all of it, including the car
See - I know you'll like to make us believe that those mfr support moneys are there merely to "motivate" better sales of things that sell themselves thousands over the sticker. Somehow I have not heard about extra motivation money on Solstices, Minis, or MDXs just after came out. It's usually those that have been mispriced, undesirable, under severe competitive pressure (to say it mildly), or at least to be cleared to be replaced by new designs.
The manufacturers throw money at you just cause they love you so much, do they?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That's OK, I've been accused of being observant before.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes, we are a very easy sale. All they have to do is take our money and give us the car.
At the liner-closer stores, the sales manager would always come over to talk with us, but they have always been very nice to deal with.
First, remember that the people who inhabit this board are only a tiny fraction of the car buying public.
Second, there are still alot of dealer incentives that aren't public knowledge.
Even Edmunds misses some of Volvo's dealer incentives for instance, and I am sure they miss other motor co's too.
Dealer money is just that, a way for dealers to recoup lost profit on slow selling cars.
Sometimes the dealers do use it to sell cars.
Sometimes it gets put in your trade in.
In alot of instances, some or all of it goes to dealer profit.
Or, you simply weren't in a particularly voracious liner closer store.
If I know about it, on the other hand, and we are in "open market" situation I will of course try to use it to my advantage. Can you blame me for it? But at no time will you hear from me anything indicating that I believe I'm entitled to it or anything like that - just plain "thanks for the price; can you do better - no? thanks for your time - next!".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
So since you have never heard about them does that mean there was none?
So tell me, what does Ford Have dealer cash on right now. if a "Smart Shopper " can find out you should have no problem.
On second point, I'm not in market for Ford, so I don't really care :P . But I'm also eligible for X-plan (my company is eligible), so you'll probably need to tell me (if I read rules correctly), unless that one is some supersecret backdoor extra couple hundred you get for selling some volume or getting super CSI scores.
BTW - you DO realize that post like yours are exactly the reason for people believing in $4000 markup on Focus, don't you?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Then stop at XYZ motors and meet "Vinnie the closer!"
His motto is " Youse better pay dis price, sign here or
I'm gonna break youse thumbs!"................... :P
Happy Wednesday!
-thene
Lets hope he saves this for the weekend when things really slow down here!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Not really, consider the demographic we are dealing with here. It is easy to have open conversations on this board because the majority of the players know the deal.
Dealer Cash also depends on the region you live in just like rebates. In our region now we have a minimal amount on Escapes, E150's and Edges.
And as far as everything we have being stale except the Fusion. I don't know if they have these where you live but we make trucks called F-150's
Ford will be back. When we get through the phase we are in right now we will rule the roost again. It is just going to take awhile. I can't wait either, it will be great to be able to throw a little back at some of our arrogant, pompus competition.
One other note on dealer cash, allot of times it is stair step money and you don't actually know how much you will get until you see how much of your objective you hit so it is hard to give away some times.
We pass it on allot of the time, I only started this conversation because some people feel we are obligated to give it up and if we don't then they think they got ripped off.
me by not kicking in the holdback cash!" :P
Seems like I have only encountered the liner-closer type. In my experience, the salesmen always has to keep running back and forth to some higher authority with each offer and counter. The only difference has been how long it takes to get to the desired number and how much BS/pressure/Car Sales 101 that I have to endure to get there.
Yep, it sure does. Otherwise, they wouldn't accept it.
I remember an Expedition Eddie Bauer sticker over 50 grand I saw in 2000. Last week my local dealer advertised 2007 Expedition Eddie Bauer for low 30s. Huh?
Ford will be back. When we get through the phase we are in right now we will rule the roost again. It is just going to take awhile. I can't wait either, it will be great to be able to throw a little back at some of our arrogant, pompus competition.
It's really great you believe in your product and company. So I say good luck with that (not sarcastically), but I'll remain skeptical. So far they show up late to almost any party on the block and their "way forward" thing was not even close of what was necessary. Their new products seem to be better on many aspects, but the progress is still too slow for overall improvement and they suffer some embarrasing setbacks (like last year IIHS crash tests or grandma's V6 on 500). So lets see. But that's just an opinion.
And BTW, I'm not really big on Toyota products - just so you know. And I used to own Ford ('97 Escort), which I liked at the time - low-tech, low-frills, low-content, but reliable.
Back to the stories.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
In a liner closer store the liner only gets 1 or 2 chances to close you, then the manager steps in directly.
In most mass market stores, the salesperson handles the negotiations, but obviously can't commit the dealership beyond a certain point.
In some stores, mostly high line the salesperson has the full authority to consummate a deal.
That being said about 6 months ago we had a family in here with a 10 year old girl rolling around on her heeleys well after the test drive as the girl got out of the car she fell because she lost her balance and broke her two front teeth on curb. Well the family had to run to the hospital, no deal that day. But about two weeks late they came back in and bought the car. The store doesn't have a policy on it but I was curious if any stores did?
So while I'm there, I usually go pick around the new and used cars to see what they have. The way the dealership is set up, it's impossible for salespeople to tell the difference between a normal "up" and someone just there for service. So inevitably, some salesperson wastes their "up" by coming over and talking to me.
My question is, does this affect the saleperson's closing ratio? I see it mentioned here as being a big thing.
In 1999 or so, a dealer forgot the drain plug on one of the vehicles I was responsible for at the time. It made it about 400 miles before spinning a bearing. Interesting, after towing it the 300 miles back to the dealer, they made the tech that screwed it up fix it, as opposed to dropping in a rebuilt unit.
It took him 3+ tries, at first he replaced just the bearing, then the rings, and then the valve seals. Then he had to replace a few sensors because they were so caked in oil, etc. Each time the car got towed 300 miles back to the dealer, and they dropped off a rental car.
If the sales person greets you and you tell him your interested and then he shows and demonstrates a car and asks you to buy then that would affect his/her closing ratio
I'll second that.
The gauge or idiot light should have said something in about 4 seconds. Therefore, I'm guessing this car had a gauge not an idiot light. Personally, I think an idiot light is more effective for this very reason.
It took him 3+ tries, at first he replaced just the bearing, then the rings, and then the valve seals.
While the mechanic was learning I would have been irate!! :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070419/AUTO01/704190390/1148-
Desperate people/companies do desperate things!! :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It is just the gross dollar amount that is unusual.
Its usually the stories that lead to the thrashings, but thats OK, I enjoy reading peoples view on are industry.
But anyhoo, I had said something in the selling to women thread about pre-judging people will cost you sales, Here is an example.
I was on the lot one day many moons ago and a taxi cab pulls up. Every ones first thought was , god I hope he is here for service. I have never had any luck with people in Taxis and on bicycles.
Any how, are weary traveler gets out of the cab, the bench freezes, I was the greenest guy there so it became my up. I walk up to the guy as he is pulling back pack, and suit cases out of the cab. He also had a bag with 3 pistols in it. But they never became an issue.
Any how I asked are unshaven unkept, dirty friend how I could help him. He grunted "used E-150, gas". I said well first lets put your belongings up and I have two to show ya. We walked up to them and he said, "if you were driving to Alaska which one would you take?" I told him that if does not care about PL PW etc take the one with the lowest miles. We were asking like $12999.00 or something, he reached in to the back pack and pulled out 11 rolls in $100 bills, $1000 in each roll. I said, I do believe you just bought a van.
Turns out he and his wife had split the sheets, he sold everything he had and was going to live in Alaska. His plan was to live out of the van for awhile
I love them & I love their state.
Hope your guy made the trip successfully.