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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Lincoln could be revived, but it would require similar budgest and attention as Cadillac got, which I think Ford doesn't have. They managed to murder the only really decent and original product they had in last ten years - LS - within just couple of years. Main reason - wrong marketing, no follow-up R&D, it was too expensive to make and the dealers were totally unprepared to handle the customer type that it was directed to. After that murder/suicide there is really nothing left.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Well, I am hardly a doom and gloom guy, but Ford has real problems.
    Some are product related, some are structural.
    Ford has almost no presence in the family sedan and entry sedan markets.
    The F150 is a fine truck, but given the price of fuel, it isn't for the casual user anymore.
    Ford has some very fine cars in Europe and elsewhere, but for some reason they refuse to bring them over here.
    The new Mondeo is a great looking car, the Ka would make a fine city car and the Euro Focus is a very good car.
    This brings me to the structural part.
    Fords management is bloated and clueless.
    Even dealing w/ Ford Motor Credit pisses me off on a regular basis. those clowns have screwed up Volvo Finance in every way possible.
    Ford, like GM is still structured like a car company with a much bigger market share than they really have.
    You have all this redundancy, people trying to justify their jobs, its sad.
    Lincoln and Mercury are pathetic shells of their former selves, with no direction and no product that excites anyone.
    Jaguar is a millstone around PAG's neck.
    Now, there are possibilities.
    Import the good Euro Fords, cut the excess white collar jobs, close the underused plants, play some hardball w/ the UAW, get rid of Jaguar and the company will be ok.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Even dealing w/ Ford Motor Credit pisses me off on a regular basis. those clowns have screwed up Volvo Finance in every way possible.

    Our finance manager was making the same complaint about LRCG yesterday.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    The problem is no so much with LRCG - it's Ford or LRNA not supporting aggressive lease rates
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    maybe car companies should stick to designing and building cars that people desire at a good value point, and leave the financing to finance experts.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh she was complaning about that too but this was about something else. She was trying to get them to buy a border line 4.9% CPO deal and they said they would think about it if she could get a couple more grand out of the customer or reduce the selling price a little bit.

    We gave a little and the customer gave a little and LRCG said no and killed the deal.

    That is the third dead deal for me for May already. :sick: All for reasons out of my control.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Good points Volvo. IMO we make the finest car on the road that no one talks about. Why Ford does not put more marketing dollars into the 5oo I have no idea. It is a great car, it sits on a P2 frame which up until I believe the 08 models was the same frame Volvo used.

    I also agree on the European cars getting into are market. There is a reason we grew another 15% there last month.

    Jaguar, your right, dump that money pit.

    Ford Credit, I love them. They are all about relations and support though. They will do allot of things for you that a bank cannot due to regulations. But the key is to be a supportive dealer. Don't just call them when you want to do a subvened rate deal or need a favor. Let them look at all your paper. I get deals done at FMCC that special finance companies won't touch.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    joel, you write:
    I get deals done at FMCC that special finance companies won't touch

    can you be a bit more specific? are they financing people that shouldn't be financed to move metal?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Why Ford does not put more marketing dollars into the 5oo I have no idea.

    You touched that aspect of Ford's corporate culture that is probably least recognized, but most contributing to their problems. They are capable to design/produce products that have tons of potential (Mustang, 500, Fusion, before it was Taurus), but totally fail on a follow up. Regardless whether the product is a big hit, moderate success or utter failure, their response is the same - do nothing about it. They starve their models, discard good names, do nothing about problems that are pointed out to them (or respond very, very slowly). Then they act like it is a customers' fault (or some aliens who exert influence) that refuse to purchase that 8-year old design with new headlights and dashboard. People used to love those Tauri - so if they loved them 15 years ago, they surely should love them today, should they ;)

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    The problem is no so much with LRCG - it's Ford or LRNA not supporting aggressive lease rates

    Thats not what I am talking about.
    I'm talking about behind the scenes things that dealers have to deal with.
    Can't speak for LR, but Volvo does have some pretty aggressive programs.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    500 does not use the actual P2 chassis, but a watered down version of it.
    Still, it is a good, if unexciting car.
    Problem is, Honda and Toyota can get away w/ cars like that Ford cannot.

    I don't doubt that FMCC buys deep, that isn't what bothers me.
    It is the structural things they have done to screw up VFNA.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    They starve their models, discard good names, do nothing about problems that are pointed out to them (or respond very, very slowly).

    1) Faulty transmissions on the Windstar and Taurus.
    2) Headgaskets on the Windstar.
    3) Launch problems with the Focus.
    4) Explorer tire issue.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Our buying center was difficult to work with when Primus was first absorbed, but now that they understand us and our cars they have done a pretty good job on both buying and rehash. We only use them for 4.9% and lease.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Not too long ago I was given a Ford 500 SEL (I believe) as a rental for a couple days while my Volvo was in the shop.

    I must admit it had a nicer interior than I expected. In many respects, I agree with Joel. Ford should do a better job of marketing it. My only real complaint is due to the engine. An upscale full-size automobile these days deserves much more than ~200 horses.

    I also complement the Fusion, in almost all aspects, except for two nit-picks: 1) Ford provides only a "D" and "L" setting for this 6-speed auto tranny! What gear does "L" represent? Either provide a sport-shift (manu-matic) capability, like most of its competitors, or provide the full-range of gears. 2) I don't like the look of the front grille. I much prefer the exterior look of its Mercury twin.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    We only use them for 4.9% and lease.

    Same here they just aren't competitive enough for anything else. Sometimes they will buy someone that one of the local banks would not but that doesn't happen often.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    joel, you write:
    I get deals done at FMCC that special finance companies won't touch

    can you be a bit more specific? are they financing people that shouldn't be financed to move metal?


    No I am saying I am good at my job and know how to structure a deal to get it done at FMCC.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    1) Ford provides only a "D" and "L" setting for this 6-speed auto tranny!

    This is one of the dumbest things I've seen, even on 4-speeds, not to mention 6-speeds. On medium grade long slopes, where 2nd gear (or 3rd in 6-speed) are the gears of choice, but having only L-D, you choose either crawl with Low that practically stops the car and D cooks brakes as it makes the car roll down with no engine braking at all.

    I can't believe in 21st century some product planners still think O-D-L is the shiftgate of choice. :surprise: :sick:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Since I was let go from work, somebody failed to tell the receptionists about that. I still get calls put through to my cell phone from customers. :confuse:

    They have a hard time filling in the receptionist job, and always ended up with temps. That's probably the reason.

    And all of a sudden I have people calling me wanting to come in and buy a Honda. :mad: :cry:

    Good thing every salesperson there is on good terms with me. At least I'll get some bord dogs out if it. ;)

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What happened?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    What happened?

    Start reading in this thread at post #11187
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Thanks, I will. I've been gone for awhile.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Ya, I was wondering about you. Just figured you were having a good week
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, to tell you the truth, I've just lost interest in some of these forums. I'm still pretty active in some of the other ones.

    And, I have been pretty busy.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Nevermind, I went back and got caught up.

    This is a tough business that just gets tougher.

    You are no doubt in a better place although I'm sure getting let go was tramatic.

    Good luck to you!
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    It always sucks being let go, rahter than quitting, but it's not as bad as it seems.

    I'm looking forward to my new place of work. We will see how it goes. :D

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    My guess is they did you a favor - you will land on your feet
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    boomchek,

    I think you wrote your new place of work is a Nissan/Infiniti dealership, correct?

    I hope I'm not giving you bad luck by discussing a job before your first day of work... I'm wondering if they will allow you to sell Infiniti models, as well as Nissan models, when you start over there? Or, will it take additional training/qualification to sell the Infiniti models? In other words, I'm curious if there is a clear hierarchy at these types of dealerships among the sales teams?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    it is not a a 'feature' that is perceived well. in reality, most people won't know the difference, and it is an 'AUTOMATIC' transmission.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I'm curious to see as well.

    I won't have a problem selling either cause my product knowledge is really up to date.

    At Honda I was the one the salesguys went to when they had a question in reagrds to model, features, and especially hybrids.

    As for the bad luck, I'm not worried. If that place doesn't work out, they'll be another dealership around the corner that I can work at.

    BTW don't get me wrong, it's not my intention to be changing dealers every couple of months, but I don't mind change, and as soon as I find a place I like I'll stay.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    At Honda I was the one the salesguys went to when they had a question in reagrds to model, features, and especially hybrids.

    I am technical support at my dealership as well.

    Oh and you have mail at your carspace email account.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those who drive automatics never go past the 'D'.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    I would imagine that a bobst no isn't the same as most other no's someone may come across.
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Boomchek, I wish you luck. I've been a steady Nissan customer since 1980 (probably you were still running around in diapers then!) They're great cars and Nissan has some very devoted customers. Treat 'em right and they'll treat you right.

    My history: Datsun 310, then another one, then a Stanza, then (oops) a Camry for a couple years, finally a Maxima (still have) and as of last year, my wonderful, passionate, mid-life crisis car, a red 350Z roadster.

    The 350Z and the Infiniti G35 crowd are absolutely nuts about their cars. Check out the my350z forum on-line; lots of young guys but a fair amount of older folks (past age 50) like myself, too.

    Nissan's got some very good products, from the Maxima down to the Versa, something for everyone. Hope you enjoy working with the new customers!
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Let me join others and wish you good luck. I hope a brand switch is not a problem for you. Nissan/Infinity are good products, so you won't have a big change there.

    I was thinking - how does the brand change affect you guys, when you switch a store. Must be a common place, I suspect, as sales are probably not the most stable jobs out there. If I were to apply for a car sales job, I would probably loath every day if I had to sell (amongst others) Chevrolets, Saturns, Mercurys or (sorry Joel ;) ) Fords. On the other hand - Audis, Subarus, Hondas, or Bimmers - I'd love to try.

    It's not really about their quality, as that one has improved a lot - more about making personal connection with the particular vehicle and their respective demographics. For example - pickup trucks. Being European, I have really hard time understanding why a suburban teenager might want a clumsy, poorly handling box sitting over two wheels dragging behind two other ones. Just blows my mind. I do understand a need for those vehicles in particular circumstances - just still trying to comprehend American infatuation with them by. Probably 80% of their buyers don't really need them. I know - free choice and all that great stuff that made me come here - still, a nice sports car, equally useless (17 yo will not haul a refrigerator or bags of cement in their back) and wasteful - at least drives nicely.

    Now how would I force myself into providing a product I don't particular like to people who (in my opinion) don't particularly need it without coming across as condescending or plain rude? I would probably find ways to bit my tongue, but it's just no fun to watch people getting a thing that is completely wrong for them and say "Excellent choice, Mr. Customer - would you like a paint sealant and pinstripe with that?". Dunno if I could do it for a long term.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Dinu, u and me are better off being the SME rather than salespersons......it just takes a very different mindset.....my nephew sells, of all the things, fashion accessories to teen age girls and mid-40 women, and cross selling is his expertise......I can never do that..
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I wrote you back BR. Wasn't sure who that was at first. :blush:

    Starting my job tommorow. We will see how it goes.

    At this point I really don't care what I'm selling :P .

    I actually wouldn't even mind working for Ford, or even GM. :blush:

    I noticed that working for a car company I like I tend to focus more on what my preferences are and not the customer's, and get sidetracked or distracted by daydreaming about my favourite cars. Anyone in the biz ever notice that the best salesguys usually know very little about the product, or just enough to answer all the questions.

    I only worked for Honda so far, but of the used cars I sold, I made the most money on the cars I had very little knowledge about, or on the ones I didn't like (ugly designs, odd colors, boring to drive etc.).

    I'm thinking if I go and work for a company that I have no bias towards, then I can focus more on what the customer wants and match them up to the right vehicle instead of matching up my favourite vehicle(s) to all of the customers (if that makes sense).

    Anyways I have a wedding in less than 4 months so I need to be making money now.

    On a side note, life is short, and I get a kick out of new experiences and learning. If I wouldn't need the money and be bored then I'd work a month in every single dealership in town just to see the different sales people, personalities, customers, and how the businesses are ran. ;)

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    If I were to apply for a car sales job, I would probably loath every day if I had to sell (amongst others) Chevrolets, Saturns, Mercurys or (sorry Joel ) Fords.

    Thats OK different strokes for different folks. Demographics are what makes the world go round. I would probably fail miserably in an environment that you would thrive in.

    If the car biz was easy and the same in every store then it would just be another $7.00 PH job filled by people with no ambition waiting for there big break. Its not and that is why it turned out to be my big break.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those who drive automatics never go past the 'D'.

    Generally, I completely agree with you. Note that I did not register this same complaint for the Ford 500, which also (I believe) has only "D" and "L" gear selections. That is because I classify the 500 as more of a comfortable near-luxury (in SEL form) highway cruiser and family hauler.

    In contrast, the Fusion, especially in V6 form, is more of a "driver's car". It's not a Camry clone. Most likely, it has a chassis as well as driving dynamics that compete well against the Mazda 6 and the new Altima. This genre of automobile attracts a higher percentage of drivers who enjoy driving -- driver's who want a little more control over their automobile. In fact, both of these vehicles offer manual trannies with their V6 models. When equipped with automatics, these models provide sport-shift (manumatic) capability.

    Anyway, I classified this issue as a "nit-pick". It wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying a Fusion someday, but I do think it is a shortcoming Ford should address -- for those of us who want just a little bit of control with our "near-sport" sedans.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I'm thinking if I go and work for a company that I have no bias towards, then I can focus more on what the customer wants and match them up to the right vehicle instead of matching up my favourite vehicle(s) to all of the customers (if that makes sense).

    Yeah, it made sense to me.

    More importantly you recognize what may be one of your short comings and this can only help you in the future. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the differences of the cars you show to your customers but once you have done that you have to let them make the final decision.

    Good luck tomorrow and who knows, with beginners luck, you might sell a handful.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    Well put. I'm still happily driving my Lincoln LS (with a manual, no less) that I bought almost exactly 7 years ago -- it'll hit 110K miles this week.

    It's a good car, but I'll never forgive Ford for what they did to me via it. It's worth about $1.85 now and has been for about the last five years. When I bought it, I'd drunk the Kool-Aid & thought it was a real "contender." Paid a little over invoice. Within a couple of years, many thousands under invoice was the rule.

    Good car -- crappy outcome. I work for a large corporation, so I know how these things happen. I'm confident many people left the company counting their bonuses while people like Joel (& me @ my place) continue to put one foot in front of the other as the management merry-go-round continues to revolve.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    late 60's in a not so big city?
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Ooops! Not so rosy looking over there at the bow tie place.

    May, 3, 2007: "DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - news) on Thursday reported a 90 percent drop in first-quarter earnings, missing Wall Street estimates by a wide margin, as mortgage-related losses at its GMAC affiliate swamped gains in its main business...

    GM, which Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.T) displaced as the world's largest automaker in the first quarter, said profit fell to $62 million, or 11 cents a share, from $602 million, or $1.06 per share, a year earlier.

    Excluding one-time items, the company said it earned 17 cents per share. Analysts on average had expected 87 cents, with the lowest estimate at 47 cents.

    GM, which sold a majority stake in GMAC last year, realized a loss of $115 million in the first quarter from the 49 percent share it still holds."

    90% is a lot. Now it appears GM finance may not be able to help out all those below cost car sales. And Ford is worse off? Does not look so good for US.
    Pretty soon most of us may be buying Chinese cars in the automotive section of the local Jumbo-Super WalMart! Car manufacturing is going the way of electronics, appliances, toys, clothing etc.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    That's because the vast majority don't routinely go up and down mountains I'd guess.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I know people who live in the mountains that don't even know you can downshift in an automatic.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    late 60's in a not so big city?

    OK wizard, you nailed it...Pittsburgh suburb, September 1969.

    I think I'm being watched or you, as an F&I guy, stole my identity from the local F&I guy when I bought last June. :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Dang!

    Busted.
  • drewbadrewba Member Posts: 154
    So it's not really a story from the sales frontline, but we bought an Odyssey from isellhondas last week. He's a nice guy and helped out with a couple of unusual questions that I had.

    The deal was relatively uneventful (at far as I know), but he did bring up several stories that would fit in this forum including a customer who killed him on a survey because she had a pine needle under her windshield wiper and a woman who was panicked about putting premium into a car that only required regular.

    Isell seems to be very busy, but I think he is sitting on a lot of good stories if he gets the time to type them up. :)
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    He's a nice guy and helped out with a couple of unusual questions that I had.

    Were you given a good deal for this plug? :D

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    I've been shopping over the internet and communicating with a few internet sales people and setting up test drives, on saturday I happen to stop into one of the dealerships that i've been communicating with that I had not set up a test drive, when I got there I looked at the cars that I had seen on line and another salesman came out and greeted me, I told him i've been communicating with the internet salesman, turned out he was not in saturday the salesman let me take the car for a test drive and when i got back to the dealership he said he'll let the internet salesman know I was in and that he'll give me a call, he mentioned they do not take customers from other salespeople. Which was good however I did have additional questions that I wasn't able to ask, is this usually the norm?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    If I were you I would not gloat so much about GMs low profit, as your reveared company could not produce even a penny of profit for last two years, by now.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

This discussion has been closed.