Stories from the Sales Frontlines

snakeweasel

Didn't GM post a profit this last quarter?

joel0622

Is Joe131 in the Ford business also?

drewba

LOL. I think that I got a decent deal, but there weren't any bribes involved.

dino001

I am so sorry, Joel. I need to get reading glasses. I thought it was you. Sorry.

joel0622

Whoa Dino, thats not me posting that stuff about GM. Look at the user name again. I am Joel0622 .

As a whole right now I am going by the "He who lives in Glass Houses" analogy when it comes to my domestic competitors.

joel0622

I am so sorry, Joel. I need to get reading glasses. I thought it was you. Sorry.

Its all good. We were posting at the same time

izaclown1

As a customer, I had gotten my figures together for a deal on a particular vehicle. I had a verbal guarantee from the salesman on the values of my 2 cars I wanted to trade for the new car. The difference was $1000 I made my offer to even our difference of $1000 in my favor. He started the paper work and presented it and it came back with a difference of close to $4000. My $6k van was $3k and the car went from $2000 to $1000. I walked...

The sales rep was not happy he lost the deal since I have dealt exclusively with him for the past 10 years. Management cost the deal not the sales department.

What gives?

cdnpinhead

". . . .verbal guarantee. . ."

There is no such thing.

If you get it in writing, at least you have something resembling a contract, but the right people need to be involved. If it were "just" a salesman, when it goes to court I'd guess that the position would be that a salesman wouldn't have "signature authority."

It's an interesting business.

madmanmoo

Or you?

This is exactly why we don't like to do sight unseen trade evalutaions. Even though the customer says he won't hold us to the numbers, they always do.

It certainly could be any number of reasons, but if you have been working with the same salesperson for 10 years, and buying from the same dealer (?), they would be highly motivated to get the deal done.

This all makes me think you may be a little unreasonable with your demands on trade-ins.

-Moo

isellhondas

Thank you for your kind words.

You were a pleasure to deal with too.

I don't tell too many stories anymore. I am just too busy.

Yes, I do have a lot of untold stories. I see people at their very best and their very worst. I deal with people who are honest and friendly and others who are mean spitited and cold as ice. After spending my entire life in retail and retail management, I can quickly size these people up and I deal with them accordingly.

Somethimes, I can warm them up and other times this never happens. After 12 years, a great deal of my business is repeat and referral. I have made a lot of "friends" who take the time to seek me out when they are in for service.

And, after selling literally, thousands of cars, I can probably think of maybe six customers that I hope I never see again.

isellhondas

Trying to appraise a trade over the phone is the quickest way to lose a sale.

If I try to be realistic and conservative I know I'll never see the customer. They will keep calling stores until they hear what they want to hear. If I'm too optimistic I'll have an unhappy customer when the appraisal falls short of my estimate.

" I KNOW what it's worth"

" I know what others are selling for"

You do? You know what some outdated internet guide said? You also probably rated your car in "excellent" condition, didn't you?

And, you know what others are ASKING for their cars.

The "books" say your 1999 Linclon Navagator with 120,000 miles is worth 9000.00?

This is where it get's dicey...

NOBODY wants that 11 MPG "tanker". It's a Lincoln, it has 120,000 miles on it! We make phone calls to the Lincoln dealer and four wholesalers. Nobody wants it for ANY price!

Finally, someone offers us 4000.00 and they really don't want it but we sell them a lot of cars.

With gas at 3.45 a gallon for regular, I'm going to run into this a lot I'm afraid.

british_rover

We are running into the same thing on this side of the country.

thenebean

first off, welcome back isell!

"I know what others are selling for"

You do? You know what some outdated internet guide said? You also probably rated your car in "excellent" condition, didn't you?

i also had someone who brought in their printout from kbb on their trade in, and they wanted RETAIL - saying "well THIS is the price KBB said our car is worth!!!"

i eventually had to get the owner out there to talk to these people to explain to them that they weren't getting RETAIL on their trade in...after all that, 3 test drives in 3 different explorers (when i worked internet, i did both ford and nissan - preferred nissan though by far!) they ended up just keeping their subaru...

people only hear what they want to hear...

-thene

isellhondas

I wish Mr. Kelley would write checks for what they tell our customers what their cars are worth.

joel0622

If you get with a real jack leg you can alway ask them to back the car up to the phone and rev the engine so you can hear how it runs Another one of those things I would like to say sometimes but never have.

The whole business does not work well if you are not in person with all the pieces. The lower appraisal leads to a higher OTD which in turn makes the payment higher. The customer never thinks about the fact the car looks like it has been hit more times then Joe Luis, all they know is it starts, they put new tires on it 3 years ago, and the AC occasionaly blows cold, but hey its still a "nice" car

jmonroe

I had a verbal guarantee from the salesman on the values of my 2 cars I wanted to trade for the new car.

'izaclown1', you have to get back into this discussion, at least to verify how you got your "verbal" from the salesman. Was it via the phone or when you went to the dealership and spoke to the salesman?

I agree with the guys in the biz, that if it was over the phone this answers everything. Even I know that owners always value their objects (cars, houses, refrigerators, suits etc.) much more than anybody else does !!!

jmonroe

lrguy44

My favorite is when they say they need X for their car. When you ask them what they base the number on, they say "because that is what I owe. That must be what it is worth."

joe131

And to which revered company of mine might you be referring?
Maybe you did not understand my post.

joe131

Nope, no love of Fords here.

dino001

I confused you with another guy (Joel).

joe131

I'd like to always tell those (Blue Book preacher) people, (1) Books don't buy cars. and (2) If you find one that will, sell your car to it.

Kirstie_H

Hey, welcome to the discussion, even if your name does provide some confusion. What brand DO you sell, just so we can keep you straight?

user777

whether KBB, NADA, Edmunds TMV, Consumer Reports... people have to use something; otherwise, we are at the complete whim of the salesperson and his/her figures. :shades:

smittynyc

Perhaps these customers got this idea from the dealers themselves?

The last time I went car shopping, just about all of the dealers never gave me an actual quote on my trade until I told them my payoff. All of the subsequent trade offers were within a few hundred dollars of the payoff.

The car (a Subaru) was worth $5K more than my payoff. I know that Subarus hold their value very well and that my case is probably the exception rather than the rule, but let's not pretend that any disingenuousness at trade-in time is coming only from the customer's side of the desk.

joe131

I only sell used cars. Brand does not matter to me.

dino001

Does not buy cars as a trade-in. Neither does he as a retail customer. Yet, I see Mr. Kelley's retail price posted all over the place on used car lots, claiming those are real "values".

joe131

Price guides are fine. I like them all.
The problem is not usually the books themselves, it is the preachers misinterpreting them or miscategorizing themselves and their cars' conditions.
A person trading a car in is not in a position to expect retail. A retailer is a car dealer which sells cars for a living. A private party buyer is not a dealer either, so should not expect to buy at trade-in or wholesale value. An excellent car is almost never one owned by a person who is wanting to replace it. Most excellent cars are either in museums, new car showrooms or NOT being sold by their fastidious owners.

joel0622

Does not buy cars as a trade-in. Neither does he as a retail customer. Yet, I see Mr. Kelley's retail price posted all over the place on used car lots, claiming those are real "values".


They are worth what the market will handle at any given time. Your low mileage convertible will be worth more next May then it will be this September depending on where you live. Just like a 4X4 is worth more in Maine then it is in Florida

lrguy44

There are many variables that go into appraising a trade. I show my customers the ACV (actual cash value). Some dealers may use some of the new car profit to show a customer more than ACV on the trade. The ACV has nothing to do with the payoff unless they were trying to steal your trade. I do find it curious that several dealers hit it about the same - makes me wonder what you base the $5k difference on.

joe131

Kelley Retail is just a guess at what the average asking price is for a car at a retailer. It is not meant to suggest the average sale price, trade-in value or anything else. So, if a dealer posts the Kelley Retail price on the window, he is entirely honest when he tells you that is the real "value", (at least so far as Kelley suggests anyway). Originally, Kelley's Retail prices were to have been calculated by actually surveying the dealers inventories and asking prices. The books still state that, but I doubt very much if any actual surveys are done now (and maybe never were?).

isellhondas

I don't understand this. A trade is worth what the market dictates. This has nothing to do with what you owe on it.

smittynyc

unless they were trying to steal your trade

That's the upshot. Subarus do get pretty close to book value in my neck of the woods, and I made sure to check with Real World Trade-in Values before hitting the lots.

What I learned from the experience is that shopping for a Honda or Toyota in the Bronx and southern Westchester County is not for the faint of heart. The trade offers matched the book value/Real World # to the penny once I got a little farther away from the city.

smittynyc

I was being facetious, Isell.

I'm going to give you the same advice that the boss gave Chris Moltisanti last night: you need to be around more so you can take the pulse of what's happening.

psorter

"Most excellent cars are either in museums, new car showrooms or NOT being sold by their fastidious owners. "

not where i live, all the dealerships used car lots have the word "Excellent,Mint,Like New" plastered on the car windows

of course these are the same cars that were graded as "good,average,fair" during the trade in negotiations cause as we all know there ain't no such thing as an excellent used car when you trade it in

secret87

Sorry guys, been kinda busy. Tryin to get all the lil things down. Thought I mentioned it before but I work for a Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler dealership. The owner also has a Buick/Pontiac/Cadillac/GMC about an hour away. The total cars new and used last month was 34. There are 2 other dealerships within 1 mile and a 3rd within 1.2 - 2 miles. Another trainee quit today. Out of 5 I'm the last standing... nerves are rising at this point. It is straight commission and a small town...

isellhondas

Or they came in ratty and the paint and detail guys worked like a dog to improve the car's condition.

joel0622

I think I am glad I don't work in NY. Allot of the folks that get a rough time when buying a car seem to be from that part of the world. I lived north of Syracuse when I was in the Army at Ft Drum but never went to the city.

user777

right you are. i could be wrong but i thought dealerships routinely made more on used cars than new. :surprise:

lilengineerboy

Or they came in ratty and the paint and detail guys worked like a dog to improve the car's condition.

See, I'm totally cool with that. A good detail can be $200. If they actually have to do touch up paint and paintless dent removal, that adds cost, but I can almost guarantee they aren't more than $500 into the car, or they bought a :lemon:

That was always what cracked me up, the closer comes out and says I can't sell you the car for that because we paid X for it, or "we are into it for X." And then he says "how about X + $250 or 500 or something?" And then he launches into this huge thing about about how he can't make any money. I suggested he kick the bottom of the used car manager that got them into an '03 Focus for $7200.

kyfdx

Yup.. How much you owe on it doesn't have anything to do with the value... But, somehow, how much they put into it, does...

If it's worth $XXX, it's worth $XXX, no matter how much money they've sunk into it..

lrguy44

Of course, that $500 doesn't cover new pads, rotors, tires and windshield.

lilengineerboy

Of course, that $500 doesn't cover new pads, rotors, tires and windshield.

No, they took that money out of the butt of the guy trading it in, thats why its not in "Excellent" condition :P

british_rover

I had to replace a headliner in a Disco once because some idiot used one of the cargo nets as a handle to drag their butt into the back. When we got the car from Land Rover's lease return system there was no mention of the broken cargo net. Even when we got it we thought it would just be easy to replace the net itself. Oh no you have to replace the whole headliner so a deal that was going to be very nice for me turned into a mini.

It was well close to two thousand dollars in labor and parts to replace that headliner.

jmonroe

That was always what cracked me up, the closer comes out and says I can't sell you the car for that because we paid X for it, or "we are into it for X." And then he says "how about X + $250 or 500 or something?"

I got ya. Only people who have bought used cars from dealers can really appreciate this line and I have done it a few times myself.

In the end they either met my price or I walked but at the end of the day there was always a different car in my driveway/garage. Some dealers just want the sale more than others. Come to think of it, this is just like buying a new car except for the line "this is how much we have into it", instead we hear "we can't even buy them for that price our selves" but we know they buy them for less. :surprise:

The internet has taken a lot of the BS out of the salesperson's arsenal.

jmonroe

joel0622

Oh no you have to replace the whole headliner so a deal that was going to be very nice for me turned into a mini.

Don't ya hate that. I would rather have a customer beat me out of my gross instead of giving it to the %$#^&* Service Department. At least with the customer you get to have a little fun negotiating.

british_rover

Yeah it was a good thing I sold that Disco for a healthy amount or we would have ended up losing money. Rarely do we make over 2,000 dollars on a used car sale. They could have at least told us that the headliner would have to be replaced ahead of time and given us an estimate. :mad:

lrguy44

We took a X5 in recently. When the SM appraised the car, it ran fine. Several days later the high bidder came to pick it up and it would not go into reverse. New tranny required. It is still sitting out back while we figure out how best to cut our losses.

british_rover

That blows. We have a similar situation going on with a Disco. It popped its engine because they owner never changed the oil in it. She traded it in for a LR3 and so we had planned to put a new engine in it and then either wholesale it or retail it depending on how long it took to get the engine in.

When the engine popped it ejected a third of the camshaft back through the block and took out the torque converter. Now we have to put an engine and a torque converter into it. We might have to put a transmission in it too but we don't know yet.

lilengineerboy

It popped its engine because they owner never changed the oil in it.

That would frustrate the heck out of me. What a waste. If she had taken care of it, all those components would've lasted into the decades and now its all wasted.
A co-worker did something similar. $5000 later (new motor) he learned his lesson.

People figure its a lease, its not mine, why take care of it. I think BMW (and others) are smart for including maintenance as part of the deal.

joel0622

It is still sitting out back while we figure out how best to cut our losses.

The best time to cut them is TODAY!! Everytime we sit on a car trying to figure out what to do, or thinking we are going to pair with something we get burned. Cut it now and you got all month to make up for it.