does that happen often when someone has a credit card that the other person doesn't know about?
Not if they pay it. this situation might come up a couple times a year.
Up until about 5 or so years ago we could not even discuss the customers bureau with them. All we could do is tell them that they will receive a letter from the lender as to why they were turned down, or tell them that they need to contact the credit bureau to get a copy so they can see why there rate was so high.
My job is much easier now that I can lay the bureau down in front of you and show you why the best rate you qualify for is XX%.
The Vette thing was just an example that I too am over. Chevy Volt is more in the future. I just want to know if laying cash on the desk for you and having you work for me is feasable. The dealer has no money until the customer pays. These artificially high prices are going away with over supply of product. Instead of the dealer squeezing you, why not provide the guy with the money a real service. Sure, work over the financers and leasers, but cash buyers should be spared the dog and pony show.
My guess is the salesperson would be fired for accepting bribes from customers if the manager finds out. The salesperson may not trust you to keep your mouth shut after the deal.
That story is great, indeed. What I don't get is why would someone say "My credit is perfect" knowing he had been 12 times late on his card in last 2 years. Forgot? How can you forget? Just make no sense to me.
What I don't get is why would someone say "My credit is perfect" knowing he had been 12 times late on his card in last 2 years.
I get that every day, that is why I am so jaded of people at times. They tell you there credit/trade/check/pay off is good knowing its not. They think we will do anything to make a sale including taking bad checks, short payoffs, etc etc.
Is your former Honda dealer part of United Auto Group?
Yes, as a matter of fact it is - I take it the BMW dealer is also?
Yes, it is! For grins, I visited the special sale website listed on the flyer. I discovered all the dealerships within our North Scottsdale dealership complex (all of them United Auto Group) were listed on this "Garage Sale" website -- including Porsche, Land Rover, Acura, Audi...
I'm guessing there were several managers at these stores who considered this to be their proudest moment! :P
I can only hope that they are better at discerning colour than the Honda dealer was . . . back in December they tried to tell me that a USED "Sahara Sand Metallic" CR-V was a NEW "Pewter Pearl" CR-V and when I questioned it, I was told "That's what it says on the sticker." ! Yes, the same sticker that told me how many miles were on the car.
How stupid do they think a woman buying a car on her own is?? I'll admit, I have not bought as many cars as a lot of guys out there (I'm only on my fourth & that's only because my '04 was totalled by my insurance), but I certainly CAN tell the difference between beige & grey & there is NO WAY that a vehicle with 5,000 miles is a NEW vehicle!!
Needless to say, any mail I now receive from them, goes directly into the trash, but your post sounded very similar to a flyer I received in the last couple of weeks.
You're probably right!! Especially since I was foolish enough to give them ANOTHER chance on Christmas Eve (in the "holiday" spirit PLUS I was in need of another car - the rental was costing me $20/day out of pocket), and the salesman (a different one this time), assured me that "yes, they do have the car in stock" & "yes, they would honour the Internet Sales Quote I had received the previous week". But when I got there chequebook in hand five minutes later, suddenly he was out on a test drive with another customer & after a whispered phone conversation, I was told that he was mistaken & they did NOT have the car in inventory - even though I had seen 6 of them on the lot on my way over to his office!! Needless to say, I will not be darkening THEIR door again!
To be fair, I don't think it has anything to do with your being female. Some salesmen are trained to say whatever is necessary to get a customer through the front door.
Most of the salesmen here are more professional than that, but I often feel that they represent a minority.
Unfortunately, instead of eliciting surprise, a story like yours will often result in rolled eyes and a "Tell me something new!" type of response.
Thank you, I have been enjoying reading this thread for some time & you do seem like a "decent" group
But you have to understand if I seem just a little bitter about the whole experience . . . the next dealership said they had the car & we negotiated right down to the bottom line, & when they "re-checked" their inventory, they found that they were not expecting the model/colour combo that I wanted for another six weeks.:(
Third time was the charm! I found an honest & pleasant salesman, we agreed on price and then he kept me apprised of its progress & when it arrived a week earlier than planned, he had made arrangements for me to be notified even though he was off that day. And he didn't even ask me for a good rating on my survey, but you can bet that he got top points all the way down the list!!
Been shopping the internet for a LS430,saw one posted on a used car site with lots of dealers.It showed a 04LS430 with 20,000 miles for what looked like a decent price. Emailed dealer to confirm mileage,year and price,got "internet sales manager" who was evasive about both price and miles.Then got "used car sale manager who was also evasive stating "yes it was a low mileage...",Asked to be more specific and he said "in the 20's" is what the ad should have said.Well car has 28698 and I still have no clue if asking price on site was correct or another "in the..." Told him I thought that perhaps he was a bit misleading in his response's and ads.He of course feels diffent and want me to move forward with deal.I obviously am not out of concerns about what else is unkown,but wonder is this something I should expect from a dealer and am I out of line for calling it missleading.Should I just shrug it off and move on or does it do any good to point out what it looks like to a buyer. Thanks,
It's not your job to educate the dealer on the error of his ways. There's lots of cars and dealers out there. Why deal with someone who's technique make you uncomfortable? Move on, or risk almost certain buyers remorse.
Well, I can understand them saying their credit was perfect when test driving (may or may not be verified, depending if they will like the car), but when you have their report and score in your hand, why then? I guess never underestimate power of suggestion (if I say so it must be so ).
The guy was trying to save his bacon in front of his wife. He was not going to come clean on the CC with her sitting there. He was lying to his wife and me at the same time.
To the question "do you have the time?", do you answer "yes?" (or no, as the case may be) Or, do you go above and beyond & actually tell the questioner what time it is? If so, you're volunteering unasked-for information.
The advertised mileage was 20,000 miles, but the actual mileage is 28,698? That represents an increase of 43% above the advertised mileage. So, make a similar adjustment at your end: Deduct 43% from their advertised price! :P
OK, more seriously: I agree with mac24. If this dealer wasn't willing to (or had trouble) providing you with the actual mileage from either their Internet Dept or their Used Sales management, then they either weren't willing to take you very seriously, or they were hiding something.
If they call or e-mail back and ask for your business, I would tell them why they aren't getting it. May help the next guy.
Only if it's someone higher up the chain than the slippery salesman. A salesman with that attitude would be likely to ignore criticism and just move on to the next prospect.
Perhaps. I guess if he is making more sales using the sleaseball methods, over being up front, he would continue.
I don't really know why this salesperson is making the mileage an issue. 28k on a 2004 is still low mileage. Not like the car had 82k, and the salesman is saying he is dyslexic and misread the mileage.
It is possible it wasn't his. Mistakes are made on credit reports all the time. One time when me and the wife were refinancing our house a major credit card appeared in my name that was over the limit and way late on the payments. But it wasn't mine. A quick call to the CC company was met with an big "oops we are sorry we will correct this ASAP". A few days later it was gone from our credit report.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So it's really 28698 miles instead of 20,000? To make a similar adjustment on your end you'd subtract 30% from their advertised price, NOT 43% You gotta know which way you are going when dealing with percentages.
20,000 is 30% less than 28698. But 28698 is 43% more than 20,000
"...The ad did not say the car had been driven ONLY 20K miles..."
What a great marketing tool! I think I'll sell my truck like that. How does this sound?:
FOR SALE 1985 Ford F-150 pick up. Truck has been driven 20K miles (plus another 230,000 to make sure it's broken in right). Custom paint job and body work. Unique air conditioning and trash disposal system (just throw your beer cans behind the seat and they fall right through the air conditioning "vents"). $19,995 or best offer.
Think it'll sell?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Don't upset yourself. If one dealer doesn't have the car/color you want, find one that does.
Honda is kind of a different animal. They have 2-3 different trim levels that differ in the amount of equipment and drivetrain. They don't have "stand alone" options, as the domestics do. Some colors look very close to each other, at least from a distance. Don't know if Sahara Sand Metallic looks clost to Pewter Pearl, but my guess is one is light gold and one is light grey. Probably not as noticeable a difference as blue and red would be.
5,000 miles could be considered new, if the car has never been titled.
Playing devil's advocate, I don't even consider phone calls, or internet inquiries to be the "final word" on finding the car I want. Unless and until I see the car in person, inspect it, lay my hands on it, I don't know if what they have will be to my liking.
I don't think anyone thinks women are stupid. As someone else said, the salesperson wants to get you into the dealership. Couple of reasons for that....nobody makes a deal until they walk into the dealership's front door. Also, people change their minds all the time when faced with the whole gamut of models, colors, equipment level they want once they get to the store.
So, if you're saying you want a CRV, get to the lot and find it's too small, too slow, you may just as well decide on a Pilot, instead.
IF you called and asked "you got a CRV in pewter?", my guess is there's a cursory look out on the lot and the response would be "yeah, we've got 'em...come on down and take a look at our selection".
If you could have seen the guys face you would have known it is his. Plus he would have not have wanted to sign so quick once I pointed it out. He just wanted out of that office.
Heck if they would not have been so rude and demanding all we would have had to do is add his wife and put her on the front of the deal but they were to worried about being in charge of the situation and not letting me do my job, so I just let them make there own decisions.
I know this is in the wrong forum, but since we're going there....
I saw a used Honda at a dealership about 30 miles from my house (close to work) on the internet (both the dealer's website, and autotrader) for $10995. I inquired to make sure they still had the vehicle (which they did, I saw it the next week), and the internet manager emailed me, and said we have it, you can have it for $12995. I called him and asked him "why would I buy it for $2000 more than you have it advertised?" He apologized, and said he thought that I had not seen a price yet! Wow! I won't be going to that dealership.
Joe, Congratulations! You caught my seeded error!! I intentionally calculated it incorrectly in order to observe how long it would take someone here to catch my mathematical error...
He apologized, and said he thought that I had not seen a price yet!
At least he was honest and did not try to tell ya it was a misprint.
I don't know how other dealerships do it but I have many times sold a vehicle we had advertised someplace for a different price. I ignored prices we had running on the radio or tv because. I always figured if there was an advertised price the consumer would let me know. Heck most of the time I had no idea we had them advertised unles it was in the occasional full color add in the paper when we were wanting to get rid of new inventory. I hated those adds
I have been on both sides though. There never seems to be a problem when we tell the wrong price on a car and it is to low. I am yet to have a consumer tell me that the advertised price is higher then that and they refuse to pay the lower price
I understand a desire for larger profit - there is nothing wrong with that. You think that (hope Joel's doesn't mind me borrowing his naming convention) Zorch is worth 15K - fine with me. I buy it or not, perhaps I could convince it's worth less - or not.
What bothers me is "I show you and you show me" approach. It's is one of the many reasons why people would not believe things like "we have XXXX in the car" or they would think there is 5 thousand markup on a Focus.
The thing had already been advertised for certain amont. Yet - when they hear somebody on the other side of the line they hear perhaps a woman, minority accent, foreign accent, young voice, insecure voice - wham! he/she must be a laydown - lets try higher. It's not illegal - just plain weasly.
So then it's just plain stupid on part of that guy more than even weasley. You submit inquiry through website posting a price and he still thinks you wan't know the price. :surprise: :sick:
I've seen a few vehicles at a local dealership that have the price "encoded" on those litte red tags they place in the lower section of the windhsiled. For example if it's a 2005 whatever priced at $12995, it says 201299505. They had a 4Runner with the price on the windhsield of $27995 and the sticker said $24995. The salesman said the price on the windshield was a special until the weekend. So I asked him what the number on the sticker was and he looked kinda shocked, said maybe they got them backwards or it was on the wrong vehicle, he would go in and check. I strolled around for about 20 minutes but he never came back, saw him standing out front smoking with his buddies when I left
So I asked him what the number on the sticker was and he looked kinda shocked, said maybe they got them backwards or it was on the wrong vehicle, he would go in and check. I strolled around for about 20 minutes but he never came back, saw him standing out front smoking with his buddies when I left
The more I read about it the more it is becaming more and more mistery to me. Why people do that kind of stuff? And I don't mean sales people only. Like that guy screaming he had a perfect credit with 12 late payments, or the salesman pretty much making stuff up as it goes, or another one - saying he will check up and never coming back, or that other lady walking away from a customer after he pointed to her "impossible car" with turbo and manual...
I really don't get it :confuse: . Please - somebody explain it to me - quick :sick:
Wanting more money is one thing - behaving like a mannerless moron is quite another...
- behaving like a mannerless moron is quite another...
There are a lot of people around like that though.
Sometimes I forget to follow up with people because I am human and I forget things. I have a system that I use to keep track of all that stuff but if I forget to input something into the system or I skip over a line then I will forget. I will call up and appolgize or appolgize when they call me up instead of ignoring them.
And in all fairness, if the prices were a mix up, then the salesman probably didn't have anything to do with it although he was quick to point out the price was a special for the next few days. He could have just gone in and came back out saying yeah, mistake, price on the windshield is right. Then I could have decided if it was something worth pursuing or not. I must admit in defense of the sales people who frequent this board, thanks for the your insight btw, that the majority of the salespeople I have dealt with have been up front and honest in our dealings. Sadly, it seems like the younger, newbie types are the ones that display lack of ethics/knowledge/customer service. Just my observation though...
There are a lot young kids in the business. some only last two weeks some last two years. It's not a easy business. We get paid commission and with the internet and competition and there is a lot of competition the gross margin on the the cars are low. With that said I know some sales people will see that your interested in a car thats a mini com. and walk away because they want to wait for someone coming in so they can make more money... Just for the record to me it doesn't matter what I make on a car because this business is a matter of averages.
Comments
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Not if they pay it.
Up until about 5 or so years ago we could not even discuss the customers bureau with them. All we could do is tell them that they will receive a letter from the lender as to why they were turned down, or tell them that they need to contact the credit bureau to get a copy so they can see why there rate was so high.
My job is much easier now that I can lay the bureau down in front of you and show you why the best rate you qualify for is XX%.
I can see why you love your job. Every day must have at least one surprise in it.
Exactly!!!
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I get that every day, that is why I am so jaded of people at times. They tell you there credit/trade/check/pay off is good knowing its not. They think we will do anything to make a sale including taking bad checks, short payoffs, etc etc.
Yes, as a matter of fact it is - I take it the BMW dealer is also?
Yes, it is! For grins, I visited the special sale website listed on the flyer. I discovered all the dealerships within our North Scottsdale dealership complex (all of them United Auto Group) were listed on this "Garage Sale" website -- including Porsche, Land Rover, Acura, Audi...
I'm guessing there were several managers at these stores who considered this to be their proudest moment! :P
Actually, I believe the proper spelling is bummerang:
1) A bummer of a topic that keeps returning to the discussion group.
2) A BMW which is returned to the original dealership more than once.
How stupid do they think a woman buying a car on her own is?? I'll admit, I have not bought as many cars as a lot of guys out there (I'm only on my fourth & that's only because my '04 was totalled by my insurance), but I certainly CAN tell the difference between beige & grey & there is NO WAY that a vehicle with 5,000 miles is a NEW vehicle!!
Needless to say, any mail I now receive from them, goes directly into the trash, but your post sounded very similar to a flyer I received in the last couple of weeks.
If something like that happend at our store I think our Centre manager would threaten to walk.
Someone higher up was just not thinking at all. Cross promotion is great to some extant but not one it devalues the high end brand.
Probably not an answer you want to hear.
Most of the salesmen here are more professional than that, but I often feel that they represent a minority.
Unfortunately, instead of eliciting surprise, a story like yours will often result in rolled eyes and a "Tell me something new!" type of response.
But you have to understand if I seem just a little bitter about the whole experience . . . the next dealership said they had the car & we negotiated right down to the bottom line, & when they "re-checked" their inventory, they found that they were not expecting the model/colour combo that I wanted for another six weeks.:(
Third time was the charm! I found an honest & pleasant salesman, we agreed on price and then he kept me apprised of its progress & when it arrived a week earlier than planned, he had made arrangements for me to be notified even though he was off that day. And he didn't even ask me for a good rating on my survey, but you can bet that he got top points all the way down the list!!
Emailed dealer to confirm mileage,year and price,got "internet sales manager" who was evasive about both price and miles.Then got "used car sale manager who was also evasive stating "yes it was a low mileage...",Asked to be more specific and he said "in the 20's" is what the ad should have said.Well car has 28698 and I still have no clue if asking price on site was correct or another "in the..."
Told him I thought that perhaps he was a bit misleading in his response's and ads.He of course feels diffent and want me to move forward with deal.I obviously am not out of concerns about what else is unkown,but wonder is this something I should expect from a dealer and am I out of line for calling it missleading.Should I just shrug it off and move on or does it do any good to point out what it looks like to a buyer.
Thanks,
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The ad did not say the car had been driven ONLY 20K miles.
Looks like you got fooled.
It's all about what the meaning of "is" is.
Parsing, I think it's called.
The advertised mileage was 20,000 miles, but the actual mileage is 28,698? That represents an increase of 43% above the advertised mileage. So, make a similar adjustment at your end: Deduct 43% from their advertised price! :P
OK, more seriously: I agree with mac24. If this dealer wasn't willing to (or had trouble) providing you with the actual mileage from either their Internet Dept or their Used Sales management, then they either weren't willing to take you very seriously, or they were hiding something.
If they call or e-mail back and ask for your business, I would tell them why they aren't getting it. May help the next guy.
Only if it's someone higher up the chain than the slippery salesman. A salesman with that attitude would be likely to ignore criticism and just move on to the next prospect.
I don't really know why this salesperson is making the mileage an issue. 28k on a 2004 is still low mileage. Not like the car had 82k, and the salesman is saying he is dyslexic and misread the mileage.
Polishing the truth is just a part of some people's character. Once formed, character rarely changes IMHO.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
20,000 is 30% less than 28698. But 28698 is 43% more than 20,000
What a great marketing tool! I think I'll sell my truck like that. How does this sound?:
FOR SALE 1985 Ford F-150 pick up. Truck has been driven 20K miles (plus another 230,000 to make sure it's broken in right). Custom paint job and body work. Unique air conditioning and trash disposal system (just throw your beer cans behind the seat and they fall right through the air conditioning "vents"). $19,995 or best offer.
Think it'll sell?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Honda is kind of a different animal. They have 2-3 different trim levels that differ in the amount of equipment and drivetrain. They don't have "stand alone" options, as the domestics do. Some colors look very close to each other, at least from a distance. Don't know if Sahara Sand Metallic looks clost to Pewter Pearl, but my guess is one is light gold and one is light grey. Probably not as noticeable a difference as blue and red would be.
5,000 miles could be considered new, if the car has never been titled.
Playing devil's advocate, I don't even consider phone calls, or internet inquiries to be the "final word" on finding the car I want. Unless and until I see the car in person, inspect it, lay my hands on it, I don't know if what they have will be to my liking.
I don't think anyone thinks women are stupid. As someone else said, the salesperson wants to get you into the dealership. Couple of reasons for that....nobody makes a deal until they walk into the dealership's front door. Also, people change their minds all the time when faced with the whole gamut of models, colors, equipment level they want once they get to the store.
So, if you're saying you want a CRV, get to the lot and find it's too small, too slow, you may just as well decide on a Pilot, instead.
IF you called and asked "you got a CRV in pewter?", my guess is there's a cursory look out on the lot and the response would be "yeah, we've got 'em...come on down and take a look at our selection".
If you could have seen the guys face you would have known it is his. Plus he would have not have wanted to sign so quick once I pointed it out. He just wanted out of that office.
Heck if they would not have been so rude and demanding all we would have had to do is add his wife and put her on the front of the deal but they were to worried about being in charge of the situation and not letting me do my job, so I just let them make there own decisions.
I saw a used Honda at a dealership about 30 miles from my house (close to work) on the internet (both the dealer's website, and autotrader) for $10995. I inquired to make sure they still had the vehicle (which they did, I saw it the next week), and the internet manager emailed me, and said we have it, you can have it for $12995. I called him and asked him "why would I buy it for $2000 more than you have it advertised?" He apologized, and said he thought that I had not seen a price yet! Wow! I won't be going to that dealership.
Signed,
future salesman COTMC
At least he was honest and did not try to tell ya it was a misprint.
I don't know how other dealerships do it but I have many times sold a vehicle we had advertised someplace for a different price. I ignored prices we had running on the radio or tv because. I always figured if there was an advertised price the consumer would let me know. Heck most of the time I had no idea we had them advertised unles it was in the occasional full color add in the paper when we were wanting to get rid of new inventory. I hated those adds
I have been on both sides though. There never seems to be a problem when we tell the wrong price on a car and it is to low. I am yet to have a consumer tell me that the advertised price is higher then that and they refuse to pay the lower price
Is $10995 a good price for the car?
What bothers me is "I show you and you show me" approach. It's is one of the many reasons why people would not believe things like "we have XXXX in the car" or they would think there is 5 thousand markup on a Focus.
The thing had already been advertised for certain amont. Yet - when they hear somebody on the other side of the line they hear perhaps a woman, minority accent, foreign accent, young voice, insecure voice - wham! he/she must be a laydown - lets try higher. It's not illegal - just plain weasly.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The more I read about it the more it is becaming more and more mistery to me. Why people do that kind of stuff? And I don't mean sales people only. Like that guy screaming he had a perfect credit with 12 late payments, or the salesman pretty much making stuff up as it goes, or another one - saying he will check up and never coming back, or that other lady walking away from a customer after he pointed to her "impossible car" with turbo and manual...
I really don't get it :confuse: . Please - somebody explain it to me - quick :sick:
Wanting more money is one thing - behaving like a mannerless moron is quite another...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
There are a lot of people around like that though.
Sometimes I forget to follow up with people because I am human and I forget things. I have a system that I use to keep track of all that stuff but if I forget to input something into the system or I skip over a line then I will forget. I will call up and appolgize or appolgize when they call me up instead of ignoring them.
Because it is so easy to lie and get away with it... on both sides.
But, in this game of B.S... I'd say the dealership/salespeople are holding the most cards.
Jip, be still. I can vouch for the fact that I'm several cards short of a full deck.
-Moo
You're just playing a different game. A pinochle deck uses only 48 cards.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper