British Rover... Thanks I was starting to doubt my management... But Like I said I thougt $2000 was all the money... I could have wenty up to $2500 but it would have made no differance...
Funny, Thene. I have a Subaru WRX and also got Cobalt as a rental loaner when had some job done on my car. First thing on that Cobalt I was driving a local freeway, surface was slightly wet after a light shower and I tried to let in some merging car by GENTLY applying brakes (as evidence of my gentle I submit I have over 50% of original pads at 60K miles). Next thing I know this POS :lemon: is locking the wheels and I fight for a second to keep it going straight. Never again.
Yeah I just glanced at galves now but it doesn't go back to 1995 only 1996.
Won't be a whole lot of differance but it opens at 1,600 for a 1996 F150 with no ads. There is a deduction for the 6 cylinder though but a big addition for 4wd. I think you are right that 2,000-2,500 is all the money in New England at least.
Galves is the auction book we use up here. You really never heard of it. At our dealership we look at galves, black book, NADA, AAx... Manhien, We do look at a lot.
Chris Hosford, (Hyundai) vice president of communications, said consumers do not consider Lexus and Hyundai as competing brands so “We don’t anticipate anyone shopping for a Lexus to cross-shop it against a Hyundai...
Maybe I should contact Chris Hosford and tell him he shouldn’t be so modest in his goals. I am cross shopping a Hyundai Veracruz with Lexus, except not the RX350, but the GX470. The RX only seats 5. Sure, the VC is the lowest priced vehicle on my list, but it does intrigue me none the less so their advertising, ad influenced reviews and everything else they are doing is working. They would be tickled pink to know that I am looking at the Veracruz along with the MDX, Q7, X5, R-Class and GX470. The Enclave and the new Highlander will get a quick look (if only on the web) too. Hyundai’s warranty is the best around, but I am concerned about the dealer network and service. It will come down to how much premium the ownership experience over Hyundai the other vehicles are worth (vehicle, service, dealers, resale)
We have already established that I am not a typical buyer, so I don’t think Lexus has anything to worry about, YET. Not long ago, Hondas and Toyotas were only viable sub-compacts. No on would ever cross shop a full size vehicle from them. Luxury cars were the exclusive domain of MB and Cadillac. I know many would ask, you crazy *%^&$, why would you buy a Hyundai when you can buy a Lexus. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
In the real world, most car sales are emotional, not practical. If people can afford the finer things in life, why not a car that is more comfortable to drive, may give your day an emotional lift from the driving experience. No different than one who buys a 60" HD TV when a 25" would do. Or one who buys a steak dinner instead of a hot dog. Life is to be enjoyed if you can afford it.
While I agree with this, I don't think that's the message. The message is they are both 60" TVs and steak. Why buy "essentially" the same thing and pay more. I will say the Azera/LS and Sonata/5 series comparisons are quite a stretch. The Veracruz versus RX comparison is a more valid
I guess you really are a greenpea. Everybody else here knows Joel ain't actually in the biz. He just comes here telling tales as if he were.
We've had his type here before, they're so easy for experienced car guys to figure out but don't say anything you'll ruin some very good tales. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm with you! You are not the typical buyer... yet. The way Hyundai is going, more and more will do what you are, shopping Hyundai along with the high-priced spreads. For my money, I'd buy almost anything Hyundai now compared to other cars with similar size, features and performance. The ones that match in those things all cost a lot more than Hyundais, which can almost always be bought at big discounts from MSRP. The Veracruz looks like another winner to me, way better than anything else in its price range, AND better or as good as many above its price range.
I think Hyundai does not want to admit yet that its goal is to TAKE OVER THE WORLD! That would seem pretentious to some. Hyundai does not want to turn anyone off, so instead admits to a tongue in cheek nature in its luxo comparison ads. If (when) they succeed in bumping Toyota/Honda/Nissan out of the limelight, then they'll take on big brothers Lexus/Acura/Infinity. Kinda like the ambitious guy in the workplace, Hyundai is dressing more like the boss than the peer coworkers.
I've had very good dealer sales and service experiences so far with Hyundai (and Kia). And the cars have been better than other cars I've owned over the years too. My only regret is that as more people catch on to the charms of Hyundais, prices are going to increase, so I won't get deals as good as I have in the past when purchasing. So far, my private party resale values have been good too.
If you get a Veracruz I bet you'll be be so pleased that you'll find yourself influencing family and friends to give Hyundai a chance too. At least maybe until the Chinese come up with better and less expensive alternatives? I fully expect within not too many years we'll be shopping for Chinacars at Ultra-Walmarts. I'm not saying that is good or bad, but I do expect it to materialize. Wait and see.
Nope, nobody here has. We use Black Book for trades, NADA for lenders, and KBB for customers when they want to see it in writing. KBB and are assesment of the cars are usually within $500 of each other.
I thought I read somewhere that Hyundai's long warranty package does not transfer when the original owner sells the vehicle. Is that true? That would help explain why resale values still aren't especially good.
Boy, is that a flip-it answer to a serious question as to whether a buyer should continue to shop if he isn’t given a fair deal today because as you said, in post 13219, “Sales Managers make mistakes all the time" and sales people too for that matter.
I’d say you’re helping to support the idea that a buyer should never stop shopping until they get the deal they want. Aren’t you guys in the biz sick and tired of buyers who go from dealer to dealer with the hope of saving $100. Using your answer (“you never know”), dealer hopping, because of sales managers who make mistakes could save a buyer a lot more than $100, right?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
After model year 2003 the extra powertrain coverage stopped transferring to subsequent owners in the family.
The 5 years/ 60,000 miles pretty much bumper to bumper coverage transfers to any subsequent owner. The extra 5 years and 40,000 miles on the drivetrain is only good for the original owner. Still, that warranty is better than most others. But you can pay for the Hyundai extended warranty which is transferable if you want it.
I thought I read somewhere that Hyundai's long warranty package does not transfer when the original owner sells the vehicle
That was my understanding also. Now that I think about it if it does not transfer then there warranty is really nothing special. They are just playing the odds that the average consumer trades cars every 2-3 years and it will not be an issue.
I don't think average consumer actually trades every 2-3 years. It's just your impression, as from your point of view, most of sales come from such people.
However, bear in mind it takes 4 purchases from the same consumer trading every 2 years to cover one purchase from consumer keeping his car for 8 years. So if your sample for next 8 years was 5 consumers trading every 8 years (5 transactions) and just 2 consumers trading every two years (8 transactions), you would still see "most consumers" (over 60%) trading every 2 years. The numbers will get even more extreme if you throw people keeping cars for 10-12 years and those changing every year or so.
I'm guessing errors are not as likely on the car purchase as they are for the trade-in. Hence, if I don't have a trade-in, the changes of an error are much slimmer?
I wonder how many people would buy a Hyundai simply because of that warranty?
I also wonder how many people bother to read the terms of that warranty.
Huyndai was forced into this warranty because of the quality of their early offerings. It's really not that big of a deal since it applies to the powertrain. Most powertrain problems are going to show up before a lot of miles accumulate.
Joe: Thanks for your answer regarding the Hyundai warranty transfer. I agree that a 5yr/60K warranty is among the very best, especially if it is full bumper-to-bumper coverage. In that regard, I cannot see it negatively impacting resale value at all.
I thought I read somewhere that Hyundai's long warranty package does not transfer when the original owner sells the vehicle
That was my understanding also. Now that I think about it if it does not transfer then there warranty is really nothing special. They are just playing the odds that the average consumer trades cars every 2-3 years and it will not be an issue.
I was actually concerned about that as well. So I checked their website. The warranty is special. Full 5 year warranty, one year longer than the usual upscale one of 4 and 2 years longer than standard. The 10 year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty is not transferable, but the powertrain is still covered by the full 5 year warranty that is transferrable. 5 year powertrain still matches many out there. If you are the first buyer, you get great coverage. If you are the second or third you still get great coverage until 5 years.
I'm with you on this one Joel. I've heard of Galves from Isell but have never seen the book. We also use Black Book for trades, Nada for book outs, and KBB for customers who want to use KBB and we are usually within $500.00. Most forget or intentionally avoid the blurb that says to deduct for reconditioning. :shades: Mackabee
Errors are rare on either trade or new car. Shopping may get you more on trade from a desperate dealer or one that needs your trade more. But to shop and shop to save $100 is ridiculous. This is especially true if you have a dealer and/or a salesperson who has spent time educating you and demonstrating the vehicle. They may well be the reason you are buying this particular car and the time and knowledge should be worth something.
That would help explain why resale values still aren't especially good.
The poor resale value has to do mostly with the stigma Hyundai has from their first offerings. They are a lot better but it takes a long time to erase the past from people's minds. :shades: Mackabee
I've never heard of Galves or the Black book If you are curious to see a black Book shoot me an address to the email in my profile and I will mail you one.
Huyndai was forced into this warranty because of the quality of their early offerings.
Sound like the early rust warranties Honda, and Toyota had to offer because their cars rusted prematurely. Anyone remember the first Civics with the CVCC engines. You could almost watch them rust in front of you
But to shop and shop to save $100 is ridiculous. This is especially true if you have a dealer and/or a salesperson who has spent time educating you and demonstrating the vehicle.
Must be a full moon. :P I agree with this wholeheartedly. My natural threshold for a vehicle starts at $500 plus or minus depending on circumstances. Gas is over $3 a gallon. Your time's gotta be worth $50/hr if not more. What I don't understand is people that don't think spending time to show a vehicle and drive it is worth at least $100. Others will say it's a cost of doing business, but it just increases overall overhead costs for everyone. Especially for people who have done all the research and know what the market is. I suppose it becomes a sport to a certain extent. I'd rather buy the car and drive through the country with the time.
I must admit how funny it is that Dealers will use Black book, galves, etc... the banks will use NADA... and the customer will use KBB, Edmunds... :confuse:
Thene... I wished I had posted that cause When you said that you had a SpecV I figured the creative side of you would have definately went with that color... The SpecV is a really awesome car do you have the audio pkg too? If you live in the north east( or any area where there is snow) you have to get snow tires or you will be all over the road... Happy motoring :shades:
If you are going to shop until a manager makes a an error, you better start working on your new 2025 car now. Errors do not happen that often.
I won't argue with that. The point I was trying to make was...volvmax's statement of "you never know", without a qualifying Emotorcon, was a bit to quick for me.
That could lead a newbie that shows up here to believe that you should shop until you drop but we all know you don't have to do that. Or at least I hope we know that but "you never know"
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Everybody uses whatever they feel will give them advantageus answer. If dealers "feel" that 3-year old Civic is worth thousand below its new retail price, why shouldn't customer "feel" that their 2-year-old Exporer is worth is worth just a few thousands below its list price
At the end of the day it takes two sides to agree, doesn't it? As long as there is a good will and reasonable understanding of what those "values" represent, there is no harm done - everybody can "ask" whatever they feel asking.
I like that 3 series 5 grand under invoice, please...
Comments
2018 430i Gran Coupe
What color is you spec-v?
Won't be a whole lot of differance but it opens at 1,600 for a 1996 F150 with no ads. There is a deduction for the 6 cylinder though but a big addition for 4wd. I think you are right that 2,000-2,500 is all the money in New England at least.
Still no way is he ever going to get to 5,000.
Whats Galves?
Joel you really never heard of Galves???
Galves is a hard book Joel and is almost always less then Black book or any other book.
If you take Galves into the Big Manhiem auction on PA you will never buy a car as Galves will always be too low.
They just redid Galves now with a Market Ready number which is probably about right for Manhiem reports on an average car.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Maybe I should contact Chris Hosford and tell him he shouldn’t be so modest in his goals. I am cross shopping a Hyundai Veracruz with Lexus, except not the RX350, but the GX470. The RX only seats 5. Sure, the VC is the lowest priced vehicle on my list, but it does intrigue me none the less so their advertising, ad influenced reviews and everything else they are doing is working. They would be tickled pink to know that I am looking at the Veracruz along with the MDX, Q7, X5, R-Class and GX470. The Enclave and the new Highlander will get a quick look (if only on the web) too. Hyundai’s warranty is the best around, but I am concerned about the dealer network and service. It will come down to how much premium the ownership experience over Hyundai the other vehicles are worth (vehicle, service, dealers, resale)
We have already established that I am not a typical buyer, so I don’t think Lexus has anything to worry about, YET. Not long ago, Hondas and Toyotas were only viable sub-compacts. No on would ever cross shop a full size vehicle from them. Luxury cars were the exclusive domain of MB and Cadillac. I know many would ask, you crazy *%^&$, why would you buy a Hyundai when you can buy a Lexus. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
A nose bleed if you can get your nose high enough into the atmosphere.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
While I agree with this, I don't think that's the message. The message is they are both 60" TVs and steak. Why buy "essentially" the same thing and pay more. I will say the Azera/LS and Sonata/5 series comparisons are quite a stretch. The Veracruz versus RX comparison is a more valid
I guess you really are a greenpea. Everybody else here knows Joel ain't actually in the biz. He just comes here telling tales as if he were.
We've had his type here before, they're so easy for experienced car guys to figure out but don't say anything you'll ruin some very good tales. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You are not the typical buyer... yet.
The way Hyundai is going, more and more will do what you are, shopping Hyundai along with the high-priced spreads. For my money, I'd buy almost anything Hyundai now compared to other cars with similar size, features and performance. The ones that match in those things all cost a lot more than Hyundais, which can almost always be bought at big discounts from MSRP.
The Veracruz looks like another winner to me, way better than anything else in its price range, AND better or as good as many above its price range.
I think Hyundai does not want to admit yet that its goal is to TAKE OVER THE WORLD! That would seem pretentious to some. Hyundai does not want to turn anyone off, so instead admits to a tongue in cheek nature in its luxo comparison ads. If (when) they succeed in bumping Toyota/Honda/Nissan out of the limelight, then they'll take on big brothers Lexus/Acura/Infinity.
Kinda like the ambitious guy in the workplace, Hyundai is dressing more like the boss than the peer coworkers.
I've had very good dealer sales and service experiences so far with Hyundai (and Kia). And the cars have been better than other cars I've owned over the years too. My only regret is that as more people catch on to the charms of Hyundais, prices are going to increase, so I won't get deals as good as I have in the past when purchasing. So far, my private party resale values have been good too.
If you get a Veracruz I bet you'll be be so pleased that you'll find yourself influencing family and friends to give Hyundai a chance too. At least maybe until the Chinese come up with better and less expensive alternatives?
I fully expect within not too many years we'll be shopping for Chinacars at Ultra-Walmarts. I'm not saying that is good or bad, but I do expect it to materialize.
Wait and see.
sorry - brain fart! it's been a rough day...
-thene :sick:
Nope, nobody here has. We use Black Book for trades, NADA for lenders, and KBB for customers when they want to see it in writing. KBB and are assesment of the cars are usually within $500 of each other.
You caught me :shades: Actually Edmunds asked me to join the smart shopper forum so there would be one member who supported the Domestics
Boy, is that a flip-it answer to a serious question as to whether a buyer should continue to shop if he isn’t given a fair deal today because as you said, in post 13219, “Sales Managers make mistakes all the time" and sales people too for that matter.
I’d say you’re helping to support the idea that a buyer should never stop shopping until they get the deal they want. Aren’t you guys in the biz sick and tired of buyers who go from dealer to dealer with the hope of saving $100. Using your answer (“you never know”), dealer hopping, because of sales managers who make mistakes could save a buyer a lot more than $100, right?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The 5 years/ 60,000 miles pretty much bumper to bumper coverage transfers to any subsequent owner. The extra 5 years and 40,000 miles on the drivetrain is only good for the original owner.
Still, that warranty is better than most others. But you can pay for the Hyundai extended warranty which is transferable if you want it.
That was my understanding also. Now that I think about it if it does not transfer then there warranty is really nothing special. They are just playing the odds that the average consumer trades cars every 2-3 years and it will not be an issue.
However, bear in mind it takes 4 purchases from the same consumer trading every 2 years to cover one purchase from consumer keeping his car for 8 years. So if your sample for next 8 years was 5 consumers trading every 8 years (5 transactions) and just 2 consumers trading every two years (8 transactions), you would still see "most consumers" (over 60%) trading every 2 years. The numbers will get even more extreme if you throw people keeping cars for 10-12 years and those changing every year or so.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I also wonder how many people bother to read the terms of that warranty.
Huyndai was forced into this warranty because of the quality of their early offerings. It's really not that big of a deal since it applies to the powertrain. Most powertrain problems are going to show up before a lot of miles accumulate.
Sounds good though...
That was my understanding also. Now that I think about it if it does not transfer then there warranty is really nothing special. They are just playing the odds that the average consumer trades cars every 2-3 years and it will not be an issue.
I was actually concerned about that as well. So I checked their website. The warranty is special. Full 5 year warranty, one year longer than the usual upscale one of 4 and 2 years longer than standard. The 10 year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty is not transferable, but the powertrain is still covered by the full 5 year warranty that is transferrable. 5 year powertrain still matches many out there. If you are the first buyer, you get great coverage. If you are the second or third you still get great coverage until 5 years.
:shades:
Mackabee
What guides do you use in your area? And what area are you from?
The poor resale value has to do mostly with the stigma Hyundai has from their first offerings. They are a lot better but it takes a long time to erase the past from people's minds.
:shades:
Mackabee
GALVES.com
If you are curious to see a black Book shoot me an address to the email in my profile and I will mail you one.
Sound like the early rust warranties Honda, and Toyota had to offer because their cars rusted prematurely. Anyone remember the first Civics with the CVCC engines. You could almost watch them rust in front of you
Must be a full moon. :P I agree with this wholeheartedly. My natural threshold for a vehicle starts at $500 plus or minus depending on circumstances. Gas is over $3 a gallon. Your time's gotta be worth $50/hr if not more. What I don't understand is people that don't think spending time to show a vehicle and drive it is worth at least $100. Others will say it's a cost of doing business, but it just increases overall overhead costs for everyone. Especially for people who have done all the research and know what the market is. I suppose it becomes a sport to a certain extent. I'd rather buy the car and drive through the country with the time.
I won't argue with that. The point I was trying to make was...volvmax's statement of "you never know", without a qualifying Emotorcon, was a bit to quick for me.
That could lead a newbie that shows up here to believe that you should shop until you drop but we all know you don't have to do that. Or at least I hope we know that but "you never know"
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
At the end of the day it takes two sides to agree, doesn't it? As long as there is a good will and reasonable understanding of what those "values" represent, there is no harm done - everybody can "ask" whatever they feel asking.
I like that 3 series 5 grand under invoice, please...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
335ci to boot please.
Off European Delivery Invoice please ...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
To the other poster...I forgot to add, I'm in the Seattle area.
I'll take your word for it though, those early Civics were pretty tinny.