I would not get myself worked over that - make your offer and if not accepted look somewhere else if you believe sticker is the price that will get you into one.
I'm not worked up, I just don't like to play games. And I don't need a car; I'm looking only because I want a new-or used-toy. As for "ADM Mazda", I hope that MS3 sits on their lot until next July 4th.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Same here, so far we have had 4 sales a straight sale on a new 2007 Ranger, a guy traded a Titan in for a F350, A Malibu traded in for a new 2008 Taurus, and a Odyssey traded in for a new 2008 Escape, all were scheduled appointment. No lot sales so far today. This time on a Saturday we should be all over double digits, especially seeing its the last day of the month.
Its hot here today temp is in the low 90's but heat index on the asphalt lot is probably all over 100.
The whole point was about ADP amounts being unconnected to any real pricing strategy (other than lets slap X and see if it sticks) - disconnected from "normal" markups charged every day. I mentioned holdback in context of what I will unscientifically call "gross margin", i.e. selling price minus acquisition costs - so nobody would point out to me that I "forgot" it. I'm totally aware it is still likely to have certain dealer's costs included in it, sometimes all of it may be cost. And certainly didn't mean to spur any arguments whether or not it is a negotiable part of the deal.
However, if those ADP-treated cars that are supposedly so hot, flying of the lot, much bigger chunk of holdback becomes part of net profit, as costs of financing those cars should be next to nothing (flying off the lot before comes there, remember?).
Funny thing is, he showed up on Thursday and Friday when I wasn't here. He blew himself out both times talking about how we were too high and too proud.
I'm kinda glad I missed that one!!
-Moo
Edit: We are actually kind of busy today. We've got 20 total cars out with 5 of those being used. Not bad, but I was held up with one group of people for WAY too long. They eventually bought, but ground every dollar out of the deal they could. My customer liked to talk a good bit. Ahh well.
I've met 3 other customers. Most folks just kicking. One guy wanted to understand how leases worked. I ushered him to the door and let him know we would talk on Monday when we weren't so busy. I know the average joe doesn't realize how important the last day of the month is, but sometimes I just gotta scratch my head. He was very understanding, so at least I've got that going for me.
Now you have me confused, and I've been in the business for many years. ADMs are added by dealers only if the market will bear them - they are not "SWAGs". For instance, our S/C Range Rovers were selling for 10k over MSRP on the west coast. Here, we were not putting ADMs on and sell them at MSRP. The formula for a desking manager working a car deal is simple:
Selling price - invoice (no holdback on invoice) minus pack = gross payable profit. Delivery and handling is dealer money, not sales dept. The sales department could care less about any money they are not paid on when working a deal.
If they can sell them for so much, it's great for them. Many times they do. Sometimes though they put those ADMs because they THINK they'll sell for so much and then often sit on those units for months.
Or in some places they just put those ADMs "for the principle". Many stories like that - my personal favorite was a Tallahassee dealer putting $2K+ on Mazda 626 in its last year of production. I don't know if you remember - it was one of the most boring vehicle on earth at its time, selling at large discounts.
Not to pick any fight here, but if it's OK to put (and take) ADMs on hot vehicles for "market adjustments" (and it is for me - I would not likely buy them), it conversely is OK to take away dealers their entire markup, holdback, secret incentive, salesman's semi-annual Christmas bonus, and owners's aunt inheritance , if the car is a dud. Not that they would agree, but if they did, I feel absolutely no remorse taking it all :shades: .
Not to pick any fight here, but if it's OK to put (and take) ADMs on hot vehicles for "market adjustments" (and it is for me - I would not likely buy them), it conversely is OK to take away dealers their entire markup, holdback, secret incentive, salesman's semi-annual Christmas bonus, and owners's aunt inheritance , if the car is a dud. Not that they would agree, but if they did, I feel absolutely no remorse taking it all
There is nothing wrong with that Dino. You want to pay as little as possible and I want to make as much as possible. It is what makes the biz what it is. All I care about is finding middle ground where we can make a deal. Because until we both say "OK" its just a waste of your time and mine.
When I sold I figured it like this. Sell as many as I can and make as much as I can. If it is a mini, oh well, I had a unit bonus to hit too. I also figured that I sold cars or prospected to sell cars every day, so I am a better car seller then the consumer is car buyer. I would just hope at the end of the month I had a enough good deals to make up for all the crappy ones. 10 months out of 12 I usually came out on top.
Or in some places they just put those ADMs "for the principle". Many stories like that - my personal favorite was a Tallahassee dealer putting $2K+ on Mazda 626 in its last year of production. I don't know if you remember - it was one of the most boring vehicle on earth at its time, selling at large discounts.
Seems to me that ADM is a big thing in Mazda-land. The Mazda dealer here in Wilmington NC has $1495 of ADM (in addition to some mop-n-glo) on EVERYthing on their lot, be it a 3, 6, CX-9, Miata, whatever.
Back in 2005 when "employee pricing" was all the rage, and there was Ford S-Plan pricing on Mazdas, these guys had no-haggle, yellow-tag pricing on their cars... that price (and I had a salesman claim "the dealership makes NO money at this price") plus doc fee came out to MSRP.
Funny thing is, he showed up on Thursday and Friday when I wasn't here. He blew himself out both times talking about how we were too high and too proud.
Are you gonna call him to see how he's doing? :surprise: Let us know if he comes back!
When I sold I figured it like this. Sell as many as I can and make as much as I can. If it is a mini, oh well, I had a unit bonus to hit too. I also figured that I sold cars or prospected to sell cars every day, so I am a better car seller then the consumer is car buyer.
I would imagine that's getting harder by the day for the sales folks with all of the info out on the web.
Don't people buy cars on holiday weekends anymore? I had to run an errand at the mall today and it was pretty dead too. Except for the DMV Why do people wait till the last day and stand in line for two hours?
Well, since volvomax was refuting your claims it would seem to me that the burden is on you to provide the "proof" of your original claims. After that, volvomax may consider contributing facts to support his position.
In any case, I don't see that a confrontational tone is particularly helpful here.
None here were deleted. You're referring to another section and the host there was fully justified in removing off topic posts. As for this topic, over 13,000 posts and 71 on a Saturday, no less, doesn't even get us close to intensive care.
Please feel free to contribute a frontlines story.
Yesterday,I was just swamped. I put together five deals and ran my tail off all day.
One of my customers I dealt with was one of those people who, armed with every consumer publication available, who try to justify why we should lose money on a deal.
1. You get your holdback so you are still making good money.
2. I have three Hondas in my family and I will probably buy another one next year from you.
3. Your Service Department will get all of my business.
4. It's the last day of the month (so you should lose money)
5. I have a huge circle of friends and business associates that I can refer to you.
***SIGH***
Like I've never heard all of this many times before?
I know this is probably not the right place to post this -- but I need some professional input on a pending sale. I am not sure if my current situation is a series of honest mistakes or if I should seek out another dealership. I contacted a Hyundai dealership over the internet for there curent lease special on the Sonata. I corresponded with the internet sales manager who assured me in email that the total out of pocket expense for the lease was $1499 -- I asked three times and he even said -- bring $1500 with you and you will have $1 left over for water. We got there and he said -- oh I ran the numbers wrong -- lease inception will be $2200. I thought -- okay mistake -- I still want the car -- we test drove one and asked three times -- is this the car on lease special - he said yes -- we were ready to cloe the deal -- but the GM had not arrived yet and he told us to go have breakfast and he would call us when the paperwork was ready. An hour later he calls and says -- oh this car is not on special -- cause it has power eats -- so your lease rate will be $230 instead of $199. I said I really don't want power seats -- so please find me a car that is on special -- can you tell me what colors you have -- he said - come down and look -- I said can't you look for me. He reluctantly said yes and called me back an hour later and said we only have white (I had told him I did not want the white car -- any car but white). I said -- can't you find me the color I want from another dealer? He said yes but not till Monday (this was sat). This lease deal expires in four days -- I am afraid that on Monday something else will come up and I won't be able to get the deal -- what are your thoughts? Does this sound like honest mistakes or am I risking by waiting till a day before the lease special expires for this guy to come through? Should I go to another dealer? Professional input please!!
At our dealership we have a three day/500 mile exchange priviledge. No questions asked. Must be on a new vehicle. Once in a while we'll do it on a pre-owned to keep the customer satisfied. :shades: Mackabee
Ya, that "mad buyer" isn't going to be coming back. We'll need to find some other stories.
BTW, I posted a message on that other board and then completely missed the entire fallout. I'm very sad. Did anyone respond to my ridiculous post? Joe, did you happen to read it?
Ok, let's have a good Sunday and get some stories rolling. I have a great customer of mine coming in today. He buys a Sentra every year from me. Trades it in and gets another!
The so called "transmission problems" on the Camry was a software issue and not mechanical. These cars have had their ECM's reflashed and the "problem" fixed. Mackabee
They are playing games and bumping you - go elsewhere. Check how much out of pocket, how long is the lease, and how many miles you are alowed. READ before signing!!!!!!
Oh yeah, he ended up buying the car. A couple of hundred dollar deal. Hardly worth the effort.
The bad thing is the fact that I don't think he left happy and I just hate that. I would much rather not sell a car then to have a person leave thinking that somehow, they paid too much. It just isn't worth it.
"I'm paying too much, but I still buy from you" face is exactly the same tactic as "we are losing money on that deal, but we still sell to you", just applied on the other side. Ultimately, he bought from you, not the other guy, so perhaps the price was right, just not what he thought it should be. I also happen to think all cars cost too much, regardless whether they particula price is a "good deal" or not .
I guess the only way it may really hurt you is if he blasts you in CSI survey, which of course is very possible. But, well - professional risk, comes with territory and the job, doesn't it?
Here I go again! Thursday I had the late shift and I had yet settled to read my company e-mail when my cell phone rings. "Hey, are you here?" asks my sales partner. "Yeah, I'm in the back reading my e-mail. What's up?" I ask. "I need your help. Come on over to the showroom." he says. I go to the showroom and I see him standing with and elderly couple probably in their late 60's or early 70's. "This is Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. They are interested in a Sienna." he tells me. "Folks, this is Mack. He's my partner and one of our top sales guys. He will be very happy to show you the vehicle." So I shake their hands and get the formalities out of the way. The first words out of the lady's mouth are "How much are you going to sell me this van for?" and I reply "As much as I can get." and we both break out in a laugh. Mr. Johnson looks tired and he doesn't say anything. It's a very hot day so I tell them I will get the vehicle and for them to wait for me in the showroom. "It's ok, Mack. We need the exercise. We'll walk with you." So we head out and we walk over to our pre-owned inventory. We have an 06 XLE with leather and DVD and 25k miles going for $27,990.00 I open it up and fortunately we are under a tent so the shade helps with the heat. I turn on the ac to cool the vehicle and begin showing them the features. Mrs. Johnson really likes the leather and is overjoyed with the DVD. "What on earth do you want a DVD for?" Mr. Johnson asks her more irritated than anything else. "No one is ever going to sit back there." he says. "You have any grandkids?" I ask. "Yeah, we have six but they all live out of state." he replies. "She's driving me crazy with this car shopping." he continues. "How long have you been at it?" I ask. "About six months altogether." he replies. "Well hopefully I'll find the right vehicle for you and you can put all this behind you." I reply...... To Be Continued..... :shades: Mackabee
Comments
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I'm not worked up, I just don't like to play games. And I don't need a car; I'm looking only because I want a new-or used-toy. As for "ADM Mazda", I hope that MS3 sits on their lot until next July 4th.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That's where my Toyota ended up (upstate NY).
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
43 posts (so far!) for a Saturday is not exacly idle!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Its hot here today temp is in the low 90's but heat index on the asphalt lot is probably all over 100.
So many posts only because things are slow on the real front lines
Good point but evidence suggests that most participants here are proficient multitaskers!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
However, if those ADP-treated cars that are supposedly so hot, flying of the lot, much bigger chunk of holdback becomes part of net profit, as costs of financing those cars should be next to nothing (flying off the lot before comes there, remember?).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm kinda glad I missed that one!!
-Moo
Edit: We are actually kind of busy today. We've got 20 total cars out with 5 of those being used. Not bad, but I was held up with one group of people for WAY too long. They eventually bought, but ground every dollar out of the deal they could. My customer liked to talk a good bit. Ahh well.
I've met 3 other customers. Most folks just kicking. One guy wanted to understand how leases worked. I ushered him to the door and let him know we would talk on Monday when we weren't so busy. I know the average joe doesn't realize how important the last day of the month is, but sometimes I just gotta scratch my head. He was very understanding, so at least I've got that going for me.
Selling price - invoice (no holdback on invoice) minus pack = gross payable profit. Delivery and handling is dealer money, not sales dept. The sales department could care less about any money they are not paid on when working a deal.
Ain't that the brutal truth.
-Moo
Crap, if thats all they did it would have been a waste time. The biggest thing is they put the 3.5 in it. That puppy is dynamite.
The name recognition will help the car to sell. Now we don't have to sell a brand just the car.
I like the lines better on the Taurus to.
We are sold out of them!!!!!!!
thats because we only have had 1 so far
Our day is starting to pick up a little we got 7 and 8 in the box now. Well 8 will be in the box as soon as I hit post.
Or in some places they just put those ADMs "for the principle". Many stories like that - my personal favorite was a Tallahassee dealer putting $2K+ on Mazda 626 in its last year of production. I don't know if you remember - it was one of the most boring vehicle on earth at its time, selling at large discounts.
Not to pick any fight here, but if it's OK to put (and take) ADMs on hot vehicles for "market adjustments" (and it is for me - I would not likely buy them), it conversely is OK to take away dealers their entire markup, holdback, secret incentive, salesman's semi-annual Christmas bonus, and owners's aunt inheritance
2018 430i Gran Coupe
There is nothing wrong with that Dino. You want to pay as little as possible and I want to make as much as possible. It is what makes the biz what it is. All I care about is finding middle ground where we can make a deal. Because until we both say "OK" its just a waste of your time and mine.
When I sold I figured it like this. Sell as many as I can and make as much as I can. If it is a mini, oh well, I had a unit bonus to hit too. I also figured that I sold cars or prospected to sell cars every day, so I am a better car seller then the consumer is car buyer. I would just hope at the end of the month I had a enough good deals to make up for all the crappy ones. 10 months out of 12 I usually came out on top.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Seems to me that ADM is a big thing in Mazda-land. The Mazda dealer here in Wilmington NC has $1495 of ADM (in addition to some mop-n-glo) on EVERYthing on their lot, be it a 3, 6, CX-9, Miata, whatever.
Back in 2005 when "employee pricing" was all the rage, and there was Ford S-Plan pricing on Mazdas, these guys had no-haggle, yellow-tag pricing on their cars... that price (and I had a salesman claim "the dealership makes NO money at this price") plus doc fee came out to MSRP.
-Moo
Good luck beating Luke.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Are you gonna call him to see how he's doing? :surprise: Let us know if he comes back!
I would imagine that's getting harder by the day for the sales folks with all of the info out on the web.
Don't people buy cars on holiday weekends anymore? I had to run an errand at the mall today and it was pretty dead too. Except for the DMV
Well, since volvomax was refuting your claims it would seem to me that the burden is on you to provide the "proof" of your original claims. After that, volvomax may consider contributing facts to support his position.
In any case, I don't see that a confrontational tone is particularly helpful here.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
One link to another topic, which has several messages deleted by the host. And it was a buyer's story.
One message I feel was a story, about interest in a Mazda3. But it also was a buyer's story, not a salesman story 'from the frontlines'.
About what I expected.
Until moo's 'mad buyer' returns, this topic seems to be dead.
None here were deleted. You're referring to another section and the host there was fully justified in removing off topic posts. As for this topic, over 13,000 posts and 71 on a Saturday, no less, doesn't even get us close to intensive care.
Please feel free to contribute a frontlines story.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
One of my customers I dealt with was one of those people who, armed with every consumer publication available, who try to justify why we should lose money on a deal.
1. You get your holdback so you are still making good money.
2. I have three Hondas in my family and I will probably
buy another one next year from you.
3. Your Service Department will get all of my business.
4. It's the last day of the month (so you should lose money)
5. I have a huge circle of friends and business associates
that I can refer to you.
***SIGH***
Like I've never heard all of this many times before?
So tell us - did he buy and how much (approx.) above invoice it was at the en - if you can of course.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
ya give for it in trade???????
I read elsewhere they are dogs as used and have a low trade
value also. Will you resell it at your place or send it off
to the auction?
Big Low Voice- Bingo.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
ya give for it in trade???????
Joel... I'd be curious what you guys ACV'd the Titan for too? What year, model, miles and condition?
Mackabee
:shades:
Mackabee
BTW, I posted a message on that other board and then completely missed the entire fallout. I'm very sad. Did anyone respond to my ridiculous post? Joe, did you happen to read it?
Ok, let's have a good Sunday and get some stories rolling. I have a great customer of mine coming in today. He buys a Sentra every year from me. Trades it in and gets another!
-Moo
-Moo
Mackabee
The bad thing is the fact that I don't think he left happy and I just hate that. I would much rather not sell a car then to have a person leave thinking that somehow, they paid too much. It just isn't worth it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mackabee
"I'm paying too much, but I still buy from you" face is exactly the same tactic as "we are losing money on that deal, but we still sell to you", just applied on the other side. Ultimately, he bought from you, not the other guy, so perhaps the price was right, just not what he thought it should be. I also happen to think all cars cost too much, regardless whether they particula price is a "good deal" or not
I guess the only way it may really hurt you is if he blasts you in CSI survey, which of course is very possible. But, well - professional risk, comes with territory and the job, doesn't it?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
To Be Continued..... :shades:
Mackabee
Stay tuned for next week's episode of "24 Lost Sales Frontline Heroes"!!
PS: No, I'm not being sarcastic this time. This is a good story that has my interest.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D