Stories from the Sales Frontlines

biancar

Exactly my thought, as well. I do exactly that, pay myself first and save up for my cars. I hadn't had a car payment for twenty years until my last purchase a couple months ago, when I put half down and financed half. I figured my money in mutual funds was making more than the loan would cost me.

After considering stock market gyrations of last week, I might have been better off to pull out that money when I had it, but have my fingers crossed that after 4 years I'll still come out ahead.

isellhondas

Is doing quite well today...finally!

They had a motorhome show on Sunday in conjunction with hydroplane races by where we live, so we walked into one of them. Big sign..." Only 1488.00 per month for 240 months!

Gasp...!

british_rover

That is about what my mortgage is. No thanks.

robr2

They had a motorhome show on Sunday...Big sign..." Only 1488.00 per month for 240 months!

Don't forget, motorhomes can be mortgaged and the interest is deductible on them because they qualify as second homes.

There are plenty of folks paying that on a mortgage for a weekend cottage around here.

isellhondas

But, good grief, that is 20 YEARS!

That motorhome will be dead by then! The fuel costs, storage, insurance, repair costs etc..

Wow!

mark156

Isell... As a motorhome renter for 3 years now, I can see the lure of owning one. It's like having a cabin but every time you open the drapes you have a different view!

Let's say you go to Lake Tahoe for the summer... The motorhome fuel costs are minimal if you are not moving it. Getting 8-10 mpgs getting from one location to another is not that bad. Everything needs repair, I know houses do appreciate in value most of the time but insurance, repairs and real estate taxes aren't cheap.

It's not that I'm advocating motorhome ownership, but houses have their cost too and don't always appreciate. For me right now, renting works great but I can't go too far away from my rental location as you only get 100 miles a day for free. On my recent two week rental, I drove less that 1,400 miles so I didn't have any extra charges. Last year I went about 1,100 miles over which cost an additional $500. (recent 2 wk rental ran about $5,700 for a 38 ft. diesel with 4 slides)

Maybe one day I'll have one so I can go coast to coast!

My friends kid me about doing these trips... they tell me that I can stay in a Four Seasons for what I'm paying. But the freedom to pick up and go whenever you feel like it without worrying about tipping 10 people before you leave the hotel has some appeal to me! LOL!

One thing I say to people who give me that "Hotel" line, is that traveling by Motorhome is not cheaper, it's just a DIFFERENT way to travel.

mark156

biancar

Yes, I could see it. My dream was always to have a beach house, and we've done that. It is a dream come true for me. The mortgage is only slightly more than the motor home payment - and of course the mortgage is for 30 years, not 20!

But for people who have the dream of traveling around the U.S. in retirement, a motorhome might fit in very nicely with that. It would be worth it for people who have that wanderlust and who like the RV type of travel.

We all have our dreams of what the "good life" is all about.

sgtslate

I think the main thing people forget is that automobiles are not investments. You cannot compare them to real estate. They are just money pits with constant depreciation. Sure we could always drive around in 10k Kia's and this would get you to work and your daily routines but lets not forget our time on this planet is relatively short. If driving a nice vehicle makes you happy, then by all means do it. I am in the market for a new vehicle. Both of my cars are paid off. I could continue to drive my paid off car but driving a new car makes me happy. I would rather spend the money on a car then go on a vacation. It is all about what makes you happy and life is too short to settle. I consider a car payment just part of life. As long as you can feed yourself and pay your bills, do whatever makes you happy.

snakeweasel

I think the main thing people forget is that automobiles are not investments.

Investments don't always increase in value. Many investments actually lose value, these types of investments allow you to earn money. Case in point, a manfacturer buys a machine that stamps sheets of metal. That machine will lose value buy it is still an investment as it helps to allow the company to produce a product and sell it thereby making money. In much the same way a car is an investment as it allows you to get to work and make money. It also allows to to perform other functions. If you don't think a car is an investment try living without one.

As long as you can feed yourself and pay your bills, do whatever makes you happy.

I agree to a point but many people over extend themselves and paying interest on a depreciating asset should be held to a minimum. Most people are over extended in their finances. Keeping a car past its loan life and investing the car payments for a few years really does help.

socala4

Keeping a car past its loan life and investing the car payments for a few years really does help.

That's outstanding advice. I'm glad to see that you use your practice to get clients off of the debt treadmill, we could use a bit more of that in this country...

prosa

But, good grief, that is 20 YEARS!
That motorhome will be dead by then! The fuel costs, storage, insurance, repair costs etc..

Given the ages of many of the people I see driving them, it won't be just the motorhomes that will be dead

grbeck

Unfortunately, they have to be receptive to the advice. I've seen it too many times - people receive sound advice, and go out and do whatever they want to do (and then whine about the consequences). They just don't want to listen.

rroyce10

....**But, good grief, that is 20 YEARS! ...**



Boat loans go 20 and even 30 years ... getcha some of that.!



Terry. :P

snakeweasel

Unfortunately, they have to be receptive to the advice.

That is so true. You should see the people that I get that are in a bad financial situation asking for advice then get upset when I tell them to get rid of the Benz's and the McMansions and stop eating out at fancy restaurants 5 times a week. They just have to have their luxuries but they don't understand they are getting deeper in debt.

snakeweasel

A lot of the people who buy these are active retirees that will drive the beast to a motor home park/resort and park it there for up to several months before moving on. Some may not get more than 5 or 6 thousand miles on them in a year.

lemko

Shoot, that's more than my mortgage, taxes, insurance, and several utilities! No thanx!

corvette

Unfortunately, they have to be receptive to the advice.

Like every friend of mine I've told not to buy a VW... The one who bought the $5,000 Beetle with the airbag light on now has an ABS light on as well, and she's complaining about the gas mileage.

extech2

This is completely off the topic but I have a question for "Isellhondas" - is it possible to order a Honda from the factory with a different color interior than what is normally available? I mean if the customer is willing to give up any discounts, will make a substantial down payment, and willing to wait 3-4 months, can he get a black interior on a white or blue Honda? I asked a local salesman and he told me all I have to do is wait 6 months and the light color interior will turn black by dirt, but that's not exactly what I had in mind.

jmurman42

The answer is no.

mikefm58

" I asked a local salesman and he told me all I have to do is wait 6 months and the light color interior will turn black by dirt, but that's not exactly what I had in mind. "

ROTFLMAO.....I almost lost my morning coffee through my nose laughing so hard. That salesman is an idiot.

isellhondas

Already answered, but no.

Why would you want an oddball car like that?

mac24

Why would you want an oddball car like that?

I think I can see where he's coming from. It's obviously an unrealistic expectation if you want a green car with a purple interior, and they don't offer a purple interior.

However, if you want a green car with a black interior and they only offer tan, even though black is offered with other colors, I can can understand a measure of frustration setting in.

isellhondas

Makes sense. I guess I was thinking they wanted something off the wall.

biancar

However, if you want a green car with a black interior and they only offer tan, even though black is offered with other colors, I can can understand a measure of frustration setting in.

That's why there's an after-market. I've known people to get cloth seats, and swap them out as soon as possible for leather in the color desired from an after-market vendor.

british_rover

That also makes the car just about instantly worthless as a trade in as well.

biancar

Some people care more about how much they like driving their own car, and let the trade-in value fall where it may. Especially for people who keep their cars five years or longer, makes sense to me to add what you want to it.

I can't imagine leather seats detracting from trade-in value (assuming they're a normal color, black or tan or grey or something that coordinates well with the car). Other mods, maybe yes, maybe no, but leather seats are virtually always considered a positive, far as I know.

british_rover

Most dealers really frown upon aftermarket equpiment. Leather seats might be ok as long as the leather is of high quality and they are not a funny color.

Aftermarket wheels are a huge detractor on the cars value. Whenever we get a car with aftermarket wheels whatever number we put on the car is totally dependant on getting the factory wheels put back on the car.

biancar

Changed the title so this conversation makes more sense...

Perhaps people who sell their cars privately after having modded them in some way come out better than trading them in to a dealer. I've seen some after-market wheels that look gorgeous, IMHO, and wouldn't mind buying a car with them; others look atrocious. Beauty in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

Only serious mod I've ever done was on a Camry where I added an after-market sunroof. It was better than the OEM one, and was a definite plus when I eventually sold the car (privately, not as a trade-in).

Another one, years ago, was when it was still possible to buy a car without a radio. I bought a Nissan 310, deliberately choosing one without a radio, and then added a much better system than the OEM. Again, this was a plus, not a minus, when it came time to eventually sell it.

moparchrisks

How bizarre. We had a motorhome on the lot and I showed it to two different buyers this week. Both in their 60s. The second one bought it. It's a Dodge Sprinter van which is really just a Mercedes Benz diesel utility van which was outfitted by Gulfstream with the bed and shower stove, etc. It gets about 20 mpg. He got the ten year loan. I'll have to have him check with an accountant about that possible write off.

The whole time we were on the demo I was wishing it was me doing the buying.

The first prospect is coming back this week to buy an empty one and do it herself. I never imagined being in the RV industry.

After work my wife takes me to a local charity sale and there is a used Monaco in the yard. It was a low mileage $500,000 new, for sale $145,000 McRollingMansion! I made my wife wipe her drool marks off the window of it before we left.

I wonder what the possibilities of a giant electric hybrid could be in one of those things.

biancar

I wonder what the possibilities of a giant electric hybrid could be in one of those things.

Slim to none, probably!

See, $145,000 is a lot for a transportation device, but downright cheap for a second home. All depends on your perspective...

Mercedes Benz diesel utility van ... It gets about 20 mpg.


Wow, that's really not bad.

I'd love to rent one sometime during the winter and do a grand tour of some of the southern and/or western states.

jlawrence01

Mercedes Benz diesel utility van ... It gets about 20 mpg.

Our experience in using the Sprinter as a demo van for our products has been closer to 25 mpg. We are not adding much weight to the base model.

british_rover

Yeah the sprinter is by far the best utility van out there. We had both standard sized and the over sized box truck style sprinters at UPS and all of the drivers loved them.

mark156

I had requested that Edmunds get a topic for motorhomes but they declined. I could talk about them all day. I'm sure this deviation of the topic will get squashed right quick.

I look at motorhomes all the time, in person and on the internet. I've rented units for the last three years and have thought seriously about purchasing. I'm just not ready to release the $250,000 in cabbage to get the unit that I would want. As Terry would say... they have the resale value of welted lettuce. LOL! :sick:

The units that I would consider are from Monaco, Holiday Rambler and Tiffin... 40ft., 4 slide-outs, solid front windshield, 350-400 hp diesel engine, washer/dryer combo, king bed, power sunvisors (a must), day/night shades, electric awnings, etc. :P

The "Sprinter" version is rather small unless you put the "box" on the back and add a slide..... Now your talking a real Motorhome.

Some friends of mine just purchased an A-class diesel with 3 slides that is all electric (no propane tank)... w/continuous hot water. Personally, I like the option of having the hot water tank that will operate on gas or electric. If you are at a campground and can only use 30 amp service (50 amp max) and you need the air-condtioning, you can flip the hot water tank over to propane to free up some amperage for other purposes. It happened to me just recently with my rental. In the all electric unit, you will have to run the diesel generator to keep up with demand if you can't get 50 amp service. Another problem, some parks have a "quiet time" rule. Usually between the hours of 10:00PM- 8:00AM you can not run the generator.

Most state parks do not allow motorhomes that are longer than 34 ft. Also, State Parks that I've seen out West do not have any type of connections at all, it's all dry camping. They will have a dump station in one central location but not at each campsite. I'm only familiar with the state parks in California.

To stay on topic.... A Motorhome salesman probably has to take a totally different approach in selling these behemoths... they are not a necessity. Once when I went to look at motorhomes, the salesman started telling me how nice they were, etc, etc... I said I wanted to rent one first and he said, "that rental money could go towards a purchase". :surprise:

M156
PS. I've been getting Motorhome magazine since 1998

zodiac2004

Perhaps people who sell their cars privately after having modded them in some way come out better than trading them in to a dealer. I've seen some after-market wheels that look gorgeous, IMHO, and wouldn't mind buying a car with them; others look atrocious. Beauty in the eye of the beholder, I guess

People who sell their cars privately always come out better than trading them to a dealer - mods or no mods.

Only serious mod I've ever done was on a Camry where I added an after-market sunroof. It was better than the OEM one, and was a definite plus when I eventually sold the car (privately, not as a trade-in).

There is a buyer for every car, I guess - but IMHO an after-market sunroof is just about the worst thing you can do to kill value - even if you get Michelangelo to install it.
You say it was better than OEM. How do you know if it won't leak/warp down the road - or something worse.

Kirstie_H

I s'pose we could have a motorhomes discussion... I just don't know what we'd call it or if it'd get any activity at all. Ideas? Shoot 'em my way.

mac24

It's always been my belief, and experience, that the closer the vehicle is to the condition it was in when it left the showroom floor, the better the price it will achieve, private sale or trade.

mac24

I just don't know what we'd call it or if it'd get any activity at all. Ideas?

How about just "Motorhomes" then subdivide it as it grows. We have other non manufacturer or vehicle specific groups such as CPO. There's a lot people out there with an interest in motorhomes, even if it's just a dream at the moment.

snakeweasel

Thats a good belief, a good rule of thumb would be the more its been modified the greater the chance they screwed something up.

My niece is driving an Acura RSX that she got with less than 10K on it for a song simply because the kid who had it modified the you know what out of it. It was one of those cases where the parents spoil their kids with whatever they want. Well the kids grades went into the toilet so they took the car away. My niece says that the parents were very upset because no one wanted the car, even Carmax wouldn't take it.

zodiac2004

It's always been my belief, and experience, that the closer the vehicle is to the condition it was in when it left the showroom floor, the better the price it will achieve, private sale or trade.

That's not a belief - that's a FACT.

There are certain mods that are less bad than others, of course - but they are all BAD in terms of value.

When it comes to trade in value, an OEM sunroof that's not working is better than an aftermarket one that works.

extech2

I don't think having a white or silver car with a dark interior is oddball. First I dislike the beige interior color most cars have nowadays, it's plain ugly for my taste, and then the dark interior is much more practical if you carry two dogs wherever you go like me. I would never, ever buy a car with cream color interior regardless how low is the price or what a great car it is in every other aspect.

biancar

When it comes to trade in value, an OEM sunroof that's not working is better than an aftermarket one that works.

Now that just sounds ridiculous. Why would anyone want to buy a car with a non-working sunroof?

In my case, I felt my added sunroof was better than the OEM primarily because it had the "brains" to close automatically when ignition was turned off. A small thing, but useful. For the four-plus years I had the car, I had no problems with it at all, it was leak-free and quiet. It was put in by a reputable compay, ASC, so that may have made a difference. I'm sure there are some after-market places that aren't as good.

When I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee after that, I found out one nice morning, after a rainy shower during the wee hours, that the Jeep sunroof had NOT automatically closed. Oops...

bigdveedubgirl

For example, TTs do not have sunroofs, not because it was cheaper, but the original design of the TT had a sunroof. It did not pass european saftey standards. THere was too much crunch in the roof when they dropped it upside down. (Those wacky germans) The roof is part of the rollover cage. So if there is an aftermarket sunroof (which I have seen) the Safety has been compromised.

snakeweasel

So if there is an aftermarket sunroof (which I have seen) the Safety has been compromised.

Not only that but it most likely voided your warranty. Modifications have a nasty habit of doing that.

zodiac2004

When it comes to trade in value, an OEM sunroof that's not working is better than an aftermarket one that works.


Now that just sounds ridiculous. Why would anyone want to buy a car with a non-working sunroof?


Simple. A non-working OEM roof can be fixed if necessary. An aftermarket roof - even if working - can raise liability issues like bigveedubgirl pointed out. And since they may not be upto standard, they may collapse and fall.
And since once installed, they can't be removed and the car be brought to original spec, they hurt value big-time.

biancar

Adding one to a car that wasn't designed for it is different than adding one to a car that IS designed for it, but didn't happen to have one.

Voided my warranty for the overall car? I doubt it. I had a warranty from the sunroof company for the roof itself; the Toyota warranty covering the engine, drivetrain, etc. wouldn't have been affected at all.

And since once installed, they can't be removed and the car be brought to original spec, they hurt value big-time.

Well, your opinion. When I sold the car (to a private buyer), he liked it and paid MORE for my car than for another one he was considering at a dealer.

You all are really reinforcing my opinion to never, ever trade in a car to a dealer! Which in fact I haven't done for the last 25 years, and won't be starting to do anytime soon, I guess.

snakeweasel

Adding one to a car that wasn't designed for it is different than adding one to a car that IS designed for it, but didn't happen to have one.

Just because a model has a particular option doesn't mean every car off the line can be fitted with that option. With regards to the sunroof most cars have electronics running through the roof. Cutting a hole through the roof could cause serious issues especially if you cut through an electrical line. Many manufacturers will not honor warranty work on electrical systems on cars with after market sunroofs for this very reason. Plus if they can link any other issues to the electrical system have fun getting that work done under warranty.

Well, your opinion.

Ah not my opinion, that was Zodiac that said "And since once installed, they can't be removed and the car be brought to original spec, they hurt value big-time."

But as far as I am concerned I worry when someone cuts a big hole in a car.

zodiac2004

What's your point?

Are you trying to say aftermarket stuff ADDS value to a car?

Or are you saying in your particular case, you did all right when you sold a car with an aftermarket roof?

Snakeweasel's statement that aftermarket stuff may void the warranty is not up for debate - it's a fact. But of course an aftermarket sunroof wouldn't necessarily void the engine/tranny warranty. But let's say there was a recall on your camry due to leaky roofpanels - you would be on your own since you have modified the roof. Similarly if you put an aftermarket ECU in your car and blow the engine, you are on your own as well.

biancar

Well, all water under the bridge in this case anyway, this was all ten years ago. Upshot was that I had absolutely no problems, it did not affect re-sale negatively at all, and was in fact a plus, and I had no electrical issues, warranty issues, or safety issues.

(Snake, I highlighted Zodiac's comment to make it clear what I was responding to, didn't mean to imply that it was *your* opinion.)

Lotsa things I suppose "could" happen in this world, but I must live on the side of the angels cuz none of them happened.

biancar

What's your point?

My point - go back to post 1300. Extech was asking about getting a different color leather seats than what was offered, and I commented that people can do this after-market if desired. British rover claimed that would make the car practically worthless as a trade-in (which I find very hard to believe, if the seats are good quality in a normal-looking color), and from there we were off to the races.

Are you trying to say aftermarket stuff ADDS value to a car?

Not as a blanket rule, of course not. I was talking ONLY about my particular experience, which worked out fine.

I notice though that not one person picked up on the other modification, which was to install a better radio than factory equipment. With today's more complicated stereo systems don't know that I would ever do that again (and besides, not even possible to get a car without a radio these days), but in general, do you guys find that changing the audio systems in a given car is a) a waste of money, b) a way to void the warranty on other electronics in the car, c) a worthwhile investment for an audiophile, or d) other?

Just curious.

qbrozen

some of you folks need to stop taking your car to your neighbor Zeke and paying with beer.

A good installer would know better than to compromise structural supports. And they certainly wouldn't unknowingly hack through wires. Heck, even a cutrate installer should know better than that.