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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Interesting, I just checked their site. Since April, when I bought my car, their rates have gone up just a notch. Here's what they're charging:

    Loan Type

    Annual Percentage Rate (APR)

    New Vehicle*
    (Up to 60 Mos) 4.74% - 9.4%
    (Up to 84 Mos $25,000 Min) 5.49% - 10.24%
    (Up to 96 Mos $50,000 Min) 6.74% - 7.24%

    Used Vehicle*
    (Up to 60 Mos) 4.99% - 7.74%
    (Up to 84 Mos $25,000 Min) 6.74% - 9.49%
    (Up to 96 Mos $50,000 Min) 7.24% - 7.74%
  • moparchrisksmoparchrisks Member Posts: 18
    I have to ask around here if we ever traded for cattle as this is cattle central! We did trade in three, well two motorcycles and a new fangled scooter thing this month. One of the bikes was a super raked Big Dog motorcycle, your basic max chromed squirrely chopper. Took a couple of weeks to find a buyer. There was a Run for the Wall in Washington D.C. a couple of weekends ago and thousands of bikers came through on the highway. We demoed it quite a bit that day.

    So now on my four square I'll have to ask...upto? three head? Upto? Four head? Four head and a chicken? Can you do upto Four head and three chickens? Let me just get your signature here.

    Oh and the only demo I saw on the scooter, the lady turned right on the highway and then promptly dropped it on it's fiberglass side followed by her head whacking the pavement. Ouch! There is no helmet law here so she was not wearing one of course. Then she made an offer but took it back the next day. Thank god it sold.

    Trailer parks and Jerry Springer. ohmigod!
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Member Posts: 365
    I was looking at a Chevy Cobalt sedan, and the salesman mentioned that we should consider one with a trunk spoiler because it is easier to know where the back of the vehicle is when backing into a parking spot. Not for looks or performance, of which i'm sure a spoiler would not matter. Is it worth it? Have you ever used that 'argument' to sell a spoiler option?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Wow - salesguys can be really inventive when they need to sell something. I suspect he has too many "spoilered" on the lot, or they have 300% markup on them.

    Like the spoiler, buy it, don't like don't buy it. But backing up story is simply bogus.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I would think that it would be harder to see out the back with a spolier. If it was a large one it would defnietly be harder to see out the back.
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    I have had a few elderly customers request spoilers for that very purpose. So to me, it doesn't sound too far fetched.
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    6% would be normalish for a home loan for good credit. Car loans have higher rates of default, so the rate will be higher.

    This would have been true, had car loans and mortgage-backed loan had the same maturities. As it is, they typically do not. So, yes, higher probability of default on a car loan vs. a home loan is a factor. But since lenders commit money on home loans for a whole lot longer, other risks - inflation, currency devaluation, etc. - come into play.

    Othersise, how could we see today 5-6% car loan rates and 6.5+% mortgage rates for excellent credit today?
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    This would have been true, had car loans and mortgage-backed loan had the same maturities. As it is, they typically do not.

    Correct. Interest rates vary at a given point in time based largely on a few basic components: (a) credit quality of the borrower, (b) strength of the collateral and (c) length of the loan term.

    The longer the term, and the longer the rate lock, the higher the rate. That's why a 15-year mortgage should have lower rate than a 30-year mortgage, and why a variable-rate mortgage is cheaper than a fixed-rate mortgage.

    So the risk of weaker collateral (real estate is more secure than is a car, from a lender's standpoint -- it typically holds it value, and generally isn't going anywhere) can be offset to some extent by the much shorter loan term, which explains why the spread between car and home rates isn't necessarily very high.
  • larryallen707larryallen707 Member Posts: 174
    I have had a few elderly customers request spoilers for that very purpose. So to me, it doesn't sound too far fetched.

    I can confirm this. I helped my then 84 (now 90 and still driving the streets of LA everyday) year old grandma buy a new Camry. She insisted on the chrome rims so she could tell it apart from the all the other Camrys. Of course, it didn't stop her from driving away with the wrong Camry from a valet parking lot thereafter, noticing it wasn't her Camry within a few minuted... but didn't return it until AFTER getting her hair done as she couldn't be late to her hair appointment. 100% TRUE. :)
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I have had a few elderly customers request spoilers for that very purpose. So to me, it doesn't sound too far fetched.

    Do their walkers sport "Type R" logos? Gosh, you'd think Buick dealers would fit all their barges with EVO wings...
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    My thing is - I don't mind people buying spoilers and the reasons they have for doing so. It's one of those things - matter of taste. However, when salesman says "you need it to back up the car better", it's just bogus to me.

    If he said - "I thinks it looks better and by the way we have ten colors for you to choose from - and by the way couple of my customers found it helpful in reverse gear", it would sound much more honest to me. What do I know anyway, I may be crazy.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    We had this Chinese fellow who worked as a salesman a couple of years ago. I overheard him talking to a customer about a Civic that had a spoiler on it..."This is for when you are going really...really fast...it keeps the rear end down on the road."

    I said to him later "Kwan...just HOW fast do you think that you'd need to be going to keep the rear end done on the road."

    He shrugged as he didn't know.

    "Do ya think that you'd need to be going faster than the Civic is capable of?"

    "Ahhhh"

    Salesmens stories, they're a blast...
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    I can confirm this. I helped my then 84 (now 90 and still driving the streets of LA everyday) year old grandma buy a new Camry.

    Great story - I was actually at a car dealership today to sit in a Grand Marquis. I've had a bit of an interest lately in tracking down a Merc Marauder, but seeing as its a semi-rare car, I can't find one locally to test drive. So, before I start fishing on eBay, I wanted to see how the cars' twin fit (GREAT, BTW, it felt like a much smaller car than it really is).

    So anyway, this older Lincoln/Merc salesguy comes up and I explain what I'm doing. He was fine with it, and took my card in case they see a Marauder traded in. So, he then gives me his card: an actual wooden golf tee with his name, dealership, and contact info printed on it.

    I'm not saying young guys don't play golf (I'm 32), but it made me wonder about the average age of your Lincoln/Mercury buyer. Great business card, though. Whenever someone I know is shopping for a Linc/Merc, this guy is going to immediately spring to mind. I'm guessing that's the idea, and that he's sold more cars in his lifetime than I've seen on the road. :)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    I've had a bit of an interest lately in tracking down a Merc Marauder

    good luck. when i see those on the road, they always catch my eye. too bad they weren't more popular when they were new. i wonder if you could find someone selling along with the leather jacket that originally came with the car. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    ."This is for when you are going really...really fast...it keeps the rear end down on the road."

    Well, that is what a spoiler is *supposed* to be for. Never mind that it never gets used that way.

    So it's not *exactly* a lie. It's just a bit of unnecessary truth.
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    Great business card, though.

    It's all about making yourself stand out. Of course, it's harder to put a golf tee in your business card holder...
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I don't know if I would want to carry a bunch of those around in my pocket. It would make me nervous.

    I get special business cars through Rover now that I have met the certification requirments for being a Silver Land Rover Sales guide.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Well, that is what a spoiler is *supposed* to be for.

    Most "spoilers" are just decorative bits of plastic that do absolutely nothing to reduce lift. Most actually increase drag coefficients, rather than improve them.

    Very few cars have spoilers that are truly functional. The Porsche 911 Turbo and Bugatti Veyron are two rare exceptions.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    I've had a bit of an interest lately in tracking down a Merc Marauder

    good luck. when i see those on the road, they always catch my eye. too bad they weren't more popular when they were new. i wonder if you could find someone selling along with the leather jacket that originally came with the car.


    Actually, there have been a couple of new or "like new" jackets on eBay. $400 a pop, though.. I'll stick with my Detroit Lions black leather jacket. :shades:

    The Merc salesman did mention that within the last year or two, he has seen a steady stream of people coming by and asking about the Marauder. When the car was actually available new, he said that the dealer ordered 1-2 for each of the two model years it was available ('03/'04), and they literally rotted on the lot for 8-10 months. Looks like Ford was 2 years too early to catch onto the retro "classic RWD big iron V8" craze.

    Personally, I still like my Maxima, but I've had a strong patriotic streak lately. I want a big U.S.-made car with RWD, vicious torque, and doesn't have any Chrysler DNA.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,429
    The Boxster and Audi TT actually have functional spoilers, as well..

    Might not make much difference at U.S. speeds, but they actually added the spoiler to the TT after it was released, because of complaints of squirrelly handling on the autobahn...

    Hmmm.. not much of a sales story, though... sorry.. :blush:

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  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well, that is what a spoiler is *supposed* to be for. Never mind that it never gets used that way.

    Not to mention that even if you could do those speeds its somewhat useless in a front wheel drive car. Also most that I recall were somewhat symmetrical, meaning that no matter how fast you go it wouldn't do anything.

    What I really get a kick out of is seeing Acuras and BMWs with those big spoiler that looks like it was made in a high school sheet metal shop and bolted on.

    There is a reason they are called spoilers.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The worst spoiler I ever saw was on a late 80s edition Escort GT that really did look like someone had made it out of sheet metal, cut it with hand shears and rivited it onto the decklid then spray painted it white.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Might not make much difference at U.S. speeds, but they actually added the spoiler to the TT after it was released, because of complaints of squirrelly handling on the autobahn...

    That's true, I'd forgotton about that.

    These kids with the ricer kits on their Hondas and Acuras are just bolting on costly plastic, and as Snake points out, many of them can't seem to afford the paint that's needed to go with them. Just the other day, I saw a Celica that had metal side skirts and a whale tail that had never been painted and were literally rusting on the car. Why bolt them on at all if you can't paint them?

    I recently had a Cobalt rental car that had a spoiler on the back, and all it did for me was to make it more difficult to see out the back window. It didn't improve handling, but it does make it easier to not see the cops who are pursuing you after you've been inspired by all of that aerodynamic performance...
  • JPhamJPham Member Posts: 148
    The rear visibility on my vehicle is crap ... where can I buy a spoiler for my Hummer? :P
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,270
    ...its somewhat useless in a front wheel drive car.

    If you get lift on the rear wheels of a car, the handling will get squirrely, like the TT allegedly did. I don't think the drive wheels matter. It's like putting worn tires on the rear wheels of a car, and new tires on the front, and driving through a rainstorm, the car is more likely to swap ends because of low traction in the rear.
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    Personally, I still like my Maxima, but I've had a strong patriotic streak lately. I want a big U.S.-made car with RWD, vicious torque, and doesn't have any Chrysler DNA.

    Aren't the Victoria/Marquis twins made in Canada? If so, this must be almost good enough...
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I have seen them on vans why not a Hummer.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If you get lift on the rear wheels of a car, the handling will get squirrely,

    The handling gets squirrely when the drive wheels start losing traction, that happens at high speeds when the car gets the aerodynamic lift. The spoiler is there to push the back of the car (with the drive wheels) down to increase traction at high speeds, this is basically because all a spoiler is is an inverted wing. With a front wheel drive car the spoiler still pushes the back of the car down but has little effect on the front where the power goes (take a close look at formula one cars they have spoilers in the front too). A spoiler will help in a FWD car but its effect is very much limited.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .. **So, he then gives me his card: an actual wooden golf tee with his name, dealership, and contact info printed on it...**



    Smart boy ....... :P




    Terry.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    The Boxster and Audi TT actually have functional spoilers..

    And don't forget the Mazda MPV, which sports a functional spoiler in the sporty minivan category. When I'm pushing 80-85 mph...it really keeps the rear end from getting squirrely on me. :surprise:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    IIRC there was a big stink in the german media at the time. An Audi engineer mentioned to someone that the TT wasn't sports car although it was being pitched as such by Audi. The squirreliness on the Autobahn was under heavy braking from high speeds where the weight shifted to the front wheels dramatically. After a few smash ups the spoiler was added. There may have been a recall.
  • cticti Member Posts: 131
    Biancar - My credit union gives 4.49% to top tier customers.

    Steine 13 - Not for 72 months they don't...

    My CU doesn't give 4.49% for 72 months but they are, amazingly, still at 4.9% for 72 months where they have been for a couple years.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Rates have gone up in the past few days.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    I checked our credit union this morning, 5% up to 72 months new and 5.4% used, but our local bank rates are all over 7%.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    Aren't the Victoria/Marquis twins made in Canada? If so, this must be almost good enough...

    The domestic parts content of those cars is sky-high, though I wasn't looking at new so I don't know the actual number.

    Plus, I don't have a problem buying a car where final assembly takes place in a country where fair wages are paid. This is why I will never buy any cars built in Mexico.
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    I call them basket handles.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    It's been kind of dry in here for a couple weeks (salespeople must be having a great June!), so I wanted to share how truly bizarre our local Saturn dealer is.

    The lease on my wife's Explorer is coming up in 9-10 months, so on a rare Saturday with nothing to do she wanted to "kick the tires" and see what was out there. She's thinking minivan, since the Explorer is kind of unwieldy and a gas hog. Plus, our second child is due in September, so car shopping isn't going to be as convenient when she actually needs to buy something. Additionally, she REFUSES to buy anything that's not a GM or Ford product (father worked for Ford for decades, strong pro-union mentality).

    Fortunately for me, she HATES the Ford Freestar. The third row in that thing is a joke, and it just seemed cheap.

    So, that leaves GM's aging lineup of minivans that should have been put to sleep a decade ago. But, since I live by Terry's advice to "buy and drive what YOU like", I let her take me to the Saturn dealer to check out a Relay. I didn't like it, she did and will probably buy one, but that's almost beside the point.

    Walking into this Saturn dealer was like going to the first day of Kindergarten.

    Salesguy #1: "Hello, my name is Doug, welcome to Saturn. I'm so glad you decided to choose us today. What can I help you with?"

    Sales Manager: "Hello, my name is Ray. I see that Doug is working with you, and I'm so happy you chose to shop Saturn today. Can I get you something to drink, and maybe some popcorn?"

    If another salesman passed by, he would look you straight in the eye, put on a huge smile and say, "Hi, how are you doing?".

    It was like going into some bizarre alternate reality. Imagine going into the secretary of state's office (Michigan's DMV) and being in and out in 2 minutes.. and having the clerk smile. Or, going into a "big box" store and having a kid know as much about computers as an Intel engineer.

    You're conditioned to expect certain businesses and the people working in them to behave in specific ways. Saturn, at least my dealership, certainly broke the mold I'd set up for them in my mind.

    For me, it wasn't necessarily positive; I personally like the air of selling and the excitement over new cars. It's supposed to be an "adult" experience, like going to a bar. The Saturn dealer was closer to an adult version of a daycare. It was clear within about 5 minutes that Saturn isn't selling a car, they're selling transportation to people who hate cars and the people who sell them.

    My wife, of course, loved it. "It's so much fun! I don't feel like I'm sitting around waiting for the manager to figure out ways to empty my bank account!"

    Maybe if I bought a Nissan Quest and bought a set of Saturn logos for it...
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    Or, going into a "big box" store and having a kid know as much about computers as an Intel engineer.

    Having worked at Intel, I can assure you that this is far closer to reality than you might think... :D
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    "One man's trash is another man's treasure"

    Having just bought my 4th Saturn in four years last Saturday, I can certainly understand (to an extent) where you're coming from.

    We chose Saturn for the following reasons:

    --> polymer panels; I know, the new batch of Saturns coming out is doing away with this unique feature, but there is something comforting about not having any door dings in your car when you come back to it in a crowded parking lot.

    --> sales experience; I'll have to run your comment comparing a Saturn dealer to "adult daycare" by my wife, as she has worked in the early childhood field for the better part of 20 years. Our experience at the two Saturn dealers we've worked with - they are part of the same ownership group - have been nothing but positive. The folks we have dealt with - salesman, GM, F&I folks - were professional. I suppose you could say they were overly friendly, but not so much as to be offputting. They answered all our questions and we have not once felt like they were hiding something from us in our discussions.

    --> service experience; again, I can only speak to the history we've had with our dealers. They have all been friendly and open, they've kept us informed as to the progress on the work they've done and the cars have always been cleaned and vacuumed on each visit. While they don't offer loaner cars, they've always had a shuttle available to take me wherever I needed to go.

    Having said all that, I will agree with you on the Relay; why GM can't figure out how to create a fold flat seat in their minivans is beyond me!
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Member Posts: 365
    >>What I really get a kick out of is seeing Acuras and BMWs with those big spoiler that looks like it was made in a high school sheet metal shop and bolted on.<<

    Funny you mention that, as this afternoon in front of me in the drive up teller line at the bank was a 1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass (the one that looks like a Malibu) with one of those bolt on 'sheet metal' spoilers.
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Member Posts: 365
    If he said - "I thinks it looks better and by the way we have ten colors for you to choose from - and by the way couple of my customers found it helpful in reverse gear", it would sound much more honest to me. What do I know anyway, I may be crazy.

    He not only said it was helpful in backing up the car... he also said that they have installed spoilers on all of the city's police cars (on the Impalas) for that very purpose. I have seen the spoilers on the police cars, and I know they are the main dealer where the city's police cars are purchased and serviced.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    one of my clients called me up yesterday with some warranty questions as his factory warranty has just ran out and he is into his extended.

    So I answered all his questions and we are still making small talk. This particular client is a big talker. He is a lawyer and from the way he likes to hear himself talk he is a very good one. I like him think he is a great guy but everytime he calls we end up talking for 45 min to an hour before we both realize what happend.

    He know I am a big tech geek and about once a month he will call up just jaw about some new gadget he is looking at. We end talking about that for a while and then we got into fishing since our dealership has a fishing/off road driving trip coming up in the fall. Before I know it we have been on the phone for an hour and at about the same time we both say, "Oh man(didn't really say man but insert your favorite expletive there) I didn't realize what time it was now I got to get back to work I will talk to you later (insert each others names here).
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Saturns seem to appeal to a small but pretty loyal customer base.

    What I can't figure out is WHY a company like GM that has been in business for 100 years has to buy Saturn engines from Honda?

    Nothing "wrong" with Saturns. The big thing to consider is the dismal resale values doen the road when compared to some other cars.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    So this tells me - markup, markup and markup again. I thought it might have been a manufacturer installed option, but if you say "he said they had them installed..." it indicates dealer option. Markup, markup, markup.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    At my CU, 6.15% 72 mos, 5.5% 60 mos, and 5.25% 48 mos.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Do yourself a favor and get the nicest '01 or '02 Villager you can find. Comparatively cheap and a wonderful powertrain. The GM minis are junk.

    -Mathias
  • kapbotkapbot Member Posts: 113
    O.K., I can't believe no one else has chimed in on this, but HOLY FREAKING COW!!! 7 years to pay off a $25,000 loan?? 8 years for $50,000?? Unless your car is your home, you need PRIORITIES, not a car! Pardon me, but if you need more than 48 months to finance an auto purchase, you need therapy not a loan!
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **HOLY FREAKING COW!!! 7 years to pay off a $25,000 loan?? 8 years for $50,000?? Unless your car is your home, you need PRIORITIES, not a car.....**



    Welcome to the "real world" .....

    Where ya been..? ... whether they drive a $10,000 Cavalier or a $80,000 Bimmer, most buyers are doin' the 72/84 month finance dance .....

    ... didn't you know.? .. this is the society of instant gratification and very little inconvenience ..... ;)



    Terry.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I couldn't agree more, a 5 year loan on a new car is the longest one should go. Really if you cannot afford the car payment on a 60 month note you cannot afford the car. Unfortunately most people want what they want and want it now (and usually can't afford it).

    Best thing for people to do is keep a car for a few years longer than the term of their loan, putting their car payment into a seperate interest earning bank account. If you have a 48 month car loan making the payments into a savings account with minimal interest you will have enough to buy the next car for cash in about four more years.

    But most people driving around in their 2005 Buiyota Benz's want the 2007 Buiyota Benz because its newer, has a different color and has 20 preset buttons on the radio instead of 16. These people will never be out of debt.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    We live by the three C's now:

    Consumption
    Credit
    Convenience

    The economy is floating on credit. God help us if we ever have to live within our means.
This discussion has been closed.