If you were savvy, you would have gotten to the pool really early, and "claimed" all of the seating as yours. You could have then rented out pool chairs, and possibly made enough to cover your vacation.
Darn it you're right. :mad:
I'm taking another weeks vacation right now...wait, make that the rest of the summer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But lately my free time was being spent here analyzing and arguing over why Joe Carbuyer will shop me for $10 and a free coffee mug on a 1986 Chevette that we shouldn't have taken in on a trade or how dealer A "scams" people by offering warranty or financing and what-not while dealer B runs screamer ads on cars they don't have. And how they both make profit in the end! :surprise:
Well, right there is your problem. You take THIS PLACE too seriously. ;b
This site should be used for recreational purposes only. Any comments posted on Edmunds do not directly reflect the official position of Edmunds or its affiliates. Drink responsibly.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
sorry to see you go boom - please promise if you encounter a really wonkey customer you'll come back and share the story!!! we need more stories around here...
For those who need a break from the cold, callous grind of the sales frontlines (such as our good friend boomer), Dr. cotmc has a prescription for you!
First of all, don't take a vacation in Florida! From what I've read, they charge way too much for the chairs and umbrellas. They do not offer a solar protection package, nor do they offer any Scotchguard on the seat fabric.
No, instead, I prescribe a quick trip to the local cinema during a non-peak viewing time of the week. Grab that bag of popcorn or Milkduds and watch "Ratatouille". While watching this movie, try to remember which particular boss, manager, or customer reminds you of the Head Chef in that restaurant. Although primarily a kids movie, it has a thoroughly enjoyable story involving teamwork, egos, and friendship.
See ya Boomer, but I know how you feel. It's funny when all those in the biz know nothing and hose outside know everything. I have tried not to take it personally, but it does grate on one. Go rent an umbrella and take care.
Thanks for the support everyone. I will be lurking here, but lately I jusdt havent had the time or energy to go thru 50 posts a day.
Yes I will still be selling cars, and my carspace page will still be updated. I just can't dedicate as much time or energy to be a regular contributor here.
speaking of vacations, not that i contribute to any stories around here, but i'll be away for a long weekend camping at lake george. i don't have to worry about expensive chair rentals...
i'll just be paddling around in my kayak, enjoying the scenery, not thinking of this little gray cube i'm in...
A couple of months ago I get a call from a repeat customer of ours. The lease on her range rover was ending and she wanted another one just like it.
She got a killer deal on her 2004 Range Rover because she bought one of the very last ones and Land Rover had a very aggressive lease deal on it at the the time. We worked numbers but couldn't get to where she wanted to be. I told her that her best bet would be to extend the lease and wait till July 10th when the new programs came out.
Throughout the next few she called to see if we could do better and I always told her no I can't get anywhere close to that with current programs. I told her we would blow out our last 2007 Range Rover demo to her but it was the wrong color, too many options and just way too much money.
So the 9th of July comes by and I go out and find a couple of cars at other dealers like she wants. I all but secure a car so that tomorrow once I get the final approval from her I can just make one phone call and bring it in.
The following events happened on July 10th between 9:30 AM and 7:00 PM
The new programs start coming across and we start working with them. While we are working on them she calls to see what we got. My boss happens to pick up the phone and tells her that we are still wading through it so it will be a while.
There are a couple of other leases we need to do at the same time and there are a ton of program including new CPO programs.
11:30 AM...
We get the programs all sorted out finally and now we figure out what kind of lease is good for her. I give her a call go over all the numbers and she wants to try a couple of things different. Different terms, different mileages, 5,000 down 10,000 down 15,000 down and even different states as she has houses all over.
I hand her over to my boss because she just wants too many different scenarios and it is better for him to do it directly. He spends a good hour on the phone with her but they finally hammer something out. Oh and she wants a different color car now... We take a 2,000 dollar deposit to seal everything down.
1:00 pm
I call up the place I had before tell them the person changed their mind and I don't need that car anymore.
I spend almost the whole rest of the day trying to find that car and at 7:00 PM when I still haven't found it. I have two dealerships that will let me know tomorrow if I can have it. Tomorrow is my day off so I guess I will come in tomorrow to wrap everything up.
The following events happened on July 11th between 10:30 AM and 5:00 PM
Since today is my day off I come in later then normal and by the time I get there one of my people has called to say I can have the car. We already have someone on the way to get it and it should be here late this afternoon. We ended up giving them a 2008 LR2 for the 2007 Range Rover.
I call her let her know that the car is on the way and that I will fax her a credit app. She says great do you have the VIN so I can get my insurance company on it. I tell her the VIN and ask her to have the insurance company call me.
11:30 AM
Insurance company calls me and I give them all the info. About 15 minutes later I have a binder and card flowing across my fax machine but still no credit app back from the customer.
12:30 PM
I get another call from the customer wanting to know if she can pick up the car today. I say no I don't think so as the truck with your car has not gotten here yet and probably won't get here until late this afternoon. We could probably do tomorrow morning though. What is the latest you can take it tomorrow morning? Well I am going to the beach tomorrow but I could come in at 11:00 AM at the latest.
Ok we can make 11:00 AM work see you then. Oh by the way I still need the credit app back and a copy of your drivers lic.
She says no problem I will get them soon.
1:30 PM
No car yet but I don't expect it for a couple of more hours at the earliest and sill no credit app.
2:30 PM
Car shows up early and I take it for a quick drive to put gas in it. Seems all ok I give it to service to put floor mats in it and do a PDI Re-Check.
2:30
Call the customer let her know we have the car now and it is all good. She says great I just want to change the lease one more time. The accountants only want to put down 5,000 dollars not 10,000 dollars. No problem I say I will call your right back.
2:35
Call her back let her know what the numbers change too.
She pauses for a minute doesn't say anything. Well ok but you see I have this other lease quote here from another dealer and it is about 100 bucks less a month then yours. What are you going to do about that?
You really didn't see it coming? The woman asks for zillion different options and you expect her to just lay down on what you have to offer and not to shop around? Well...
I concur. And you'd be crazy, BR, to expect her NOT to go with the other dealer at $100 LESS per month for the same vehicle.
Couple questions, BR. Why couldn't she have picked up the vehicle that day just because it was arriving late in the afternoon? That's an expensive vehicle. Why not go the extra mile for the customer? And with you not working with her to be able to pick the thing up the same day, that's more incentive for her to go to the other dealer (as if the $100/month savings isn't enough.)
The other question is, if she has "houses all over," why is she even financing the vehicle? It would seem she could just lay down cash for it. And WHY ON EARTH would she even contemplate putting $5K, $10K, $15K down on a LEASE???? :confuse: Is she crazy?? Doesn't seem like smart financial decisions are her "thing." Can't see how she has houses all over, unless she's simply cosigned on a bunch of them; in which case, no, smart financial decisions aren't her "thing."
BR - Looks like you have a couple of decisions to make, but first you need to determine what the other deal is. An apples-to-apples comparison may show: a. the other vehicle cost less b. she's not putting down the same money c. the terms are different If it's different, you'll be able to show her the error in her comparison. If it's the same animal that you have, then: a. you jump through hoops to improve the deal (if that's possible) b. tell her to consider that other deal less the $2K deposit she placed on the vehicle she MADE A DEAL with your dealership. At the very least keep enough of the deposit to cover your mini and the vehicle trade expenses.
The other question is, if she has "houses all over," why is she even financing the vehicle? It would seem she could just lay down cash for it.
Having lots of 'stuff' doesn't necessarily equate to lots of cash. That $100 a month could make the difference between paying the mortgage or not on one of those houses.
maybe its just me, but i think she's either lying about the deal, trying to get BR to match, or she has no clue that the other dealer is finagling the numbers to make it look like she's saving $100 a month on the lease, but its a cheaper car/more money down/longer term/etc.
i think BR should just use the "take away" close. "oh, ok then, well enjoy your new car!" and see what she says...
i'd love to be there when she starts stammering because she knows that her "deal" is really a good one, and that the $100 less a month is a crock of stinky poo.
I dont think it was an issue of BR not tring to work with her on delivery. When you dealer trade for a car you never know when it will arrive or what may need to be done. You can have a dent,scratch, a check engine light or other issues. The last thing you want is a customer scheduled for a delivery that you have to put off to correct a problem.Not to mention he still had no credit application and therefore no approval on the lease.
"She says great I just want to change the lease one more time. The accountants only want to put down 5,000 dollars not 10,000 dollars."
She has accountants making personal car lease decisions for her?? Oooh, I see a "sense of entitlement" written all over her, based on your story. I wonder if she was directly talking to another dealer, or if one of her accountants was involved with that negotiation? Either way, she should have disclosed this to you, BR, as well as hold off on that $2k deposit.
As someone else said, an "I'm gonna do what's best for me, regardless of the means to that end." attitude might be expected at high-volume stores, but I wouldn't expect that at a high-end store such as yours. I would think both sides should expect a little more integrity than that! :mad:
She runs a multi-million dollar company that her and her husband built from the ground up. I think she knows what she is doing.
She leases because the vehicle goes through the company and it is a company expense. She leases a Range Rover because of the over 6000 lbs GVWR tax deduction. Why does she want to put 5,000 d0llars down on the lease? I have no idea but I am guessing she has some cash she wants to bury into something and not report as income.
This is a nearly 80,000 dollar car with a 1,700 dollar plus lease payment.
Typically you people don't get it. I have no problem with her shopping around. What I do have a problem with is her making me jump through hoops for weeks and then bust my hump for 36 hours to drag her car in after she changed the color combo she wanted then she springs this other deal on me. After we already spent the money to bring the car in from another dealer and after we already took a 2,000 dollar deposit.
I guess like Craig said in this day in age a person's word has no value.
Its not like we were sticking her with full MSRP either. We offered to blow our 2007 Demo out to her for 1,000 over cost but it was the wrong color and the wrong options. We were selling the Range Rover that we had to truck in for 4,000 dollars off. The only way to hit her number was to sell the truck for a loss and that is not something we are going to do.
In order to offer the things we offer, Land Rover loaner cars, Valet pick up and delivery, hand wash with every service, catered events and parties both on site and off, off-road driving schools, fly-fishing trips we have to make a certain amount per vehicle. Do you think the service department makes any money sending a valet driver 45 minutes one way to pick up a car and drop off a loaner for an oil change?
No dealer in our market would honor that price but some big volume place around Boston, New Jersey or Manhattan would. None of the dealers around us even have the right car I know because I spent a whole day trying to find one as far south as Virginia.
We gave her a good price for our area but we aren't losing 1,000 dollar to sell her a car. She can go buy it at whatever dealer gave her that quote, she wouldn't tell me who did it, and good luck getting them to pick her car for service when they are two states away.
Oh and the reason we couldn't deliver the car to her yesterday evening was because we didn't have the MSO yet. The dealer we got the car from does not keep those documents on site and so they had to overnight it to us from another location. Normally when we do business with them we have the swap planned out a few days in advance and they transfer the MSO to the store then send it up with the car. This swap was all rushed out so they never had a chance too transfer the documents. We received them in an overnight envelope this morning. I can't deliver a car without a MSO/Title on site that is company policy.
Typically you people don't get it. I have no problem with her shopping around. What I do have a problem with is her making me jump through hoops for weeks..........
I can quite see why you're pissed, but I think you're viewing her as someone who should be giving you the same respect as you've given her.
I'd guess that she views it very differently. You're just one one the many 'little' people who provide the services in her life. She probably exists on a higher plane than most of us.
All this thrashing, on both sides of the negotiation table, has always seemed unneccessary to me.
Fact is, most of us buy a car when we're in the market. Manufacturers try to lure us into the showroom with cash back, low interest deals, clearance sales, etc. But, unless you're interested in buying a car, at that particular time, none of that means diddly.
I love Costco. I like their prices and I like their selection. I like the quality of the products they have for sale. 3-4 times/year, they send out coupons for even more savings. If they have something I need on sale at those times, I take advantage of the coupons. But, if I'm already stocked up with paper towels, TP, have no need for that swell leather recliner on sale, I don't use the coupons.
Same way with a car. Regardless of the cash back, special interest rates, clearance prices, if I'm not in the market, none of that matters to me.
What's the price of the car, right now, when I'm in the market? We research. We go out and touch the new iron. We decide to buy. Anyone who does their homework, their research, will get a good deal...particularly if they buy from someone they trust.
Where many get into trouble is when they want to buy when they're upside down in their trade-in. They want to fit a square peg into a round hole.
They get into trouble when they don't do their due diligence. When they don't know what the market is for the car they're interested in.
One thing's for certain, unless they're dealing in distressed merchandise (kind of like shopping for clearance, dented, can goods at the grocery store, if that's your thing), dealerships won't lose money on any deal. Asking them to do so won't get that new car in your driveway.
You don't have to be a master negotiator to get a good deal. Stick to your guns. Shop around a little. Look at the ads in the newspaper. Troll around Edmunds. Look around the dealership's lot and see how many of the cars your interested in is in their inventory. Be confident in your numbers. You'll get a pretty good indication of what the market is.
It's up to you whether you want to participate in the "offer...bump....offer...bump" of typical negotiations. Or, like bobst, and many others here, make your offer, your one and only offer, and be willing to walk if the dealership can't/won't accept.
Wringing your hands over whether you spent $50-$100 more than the next guy is an exercise in frustration. You really don't know unless you were at the table, with the other purchaser, when the deal is made, whether it's better than your deal.
This I know to be true, no matter what your purchase price is, someone, somewhere, is going to tell you how you've been taken. Doesn't matter if it's true, or not.
The deal you make is a good deal for you, at the time you made it.....period! Coming back later and asking if it's a good deal or not will do little more than open yourself up for criticism.
And once again the fact is proven as to why the number of stories in this thread continue to shrink.
Every one you tell opens yourself up to instant criticism.
BR the story you tell reminds me of the late 90's when were leasing fully loaded Expeditions for a ridiculously low payment. Then when the lease termed 2 years later people wanted to know why there payment was tripling from the last time.
It was not real easy to explain except tell them that as good as the lease program was then it is that bad now.
Amen Joel. Also, in high end accountants are involved more often than not - they advise on to lease or buy, finance (with low rate it may be advantages to finance rather than buy), and even best time to buy for tax and cash flow purposes. High end buyers are not Hyundai buyers - but of course in this forum the professional salesman did not do his job. It gets OLD
I was referring to the first two people who replied to the story. I figured I would get that kind of response though.
The "OMG 100 dollar less a month you must be screwing her over" response. ...
Nobody responded that way, at least I didn't. But for you to assume that, maybe you are trying to screw her over. Like you said somebody has to pay for those fly fishing trips, and Lord knows no car dealership is going to do something nice for free.
Anyway, wealthy people don't get that way by spending money foolishly and not recognizing a good deal when they see one. And if she's possibly worried about a miniscule tax break by owning a road rhinosaurus, it's probably a safe bet that the $100 savings is equally important to her. Buying one of these things shows she's neither prudent nor thrifty, but she's still not above penny pinching where possible.
I, for one, continue to hope that the "instant critics" from those who know nothing about being in a sales business do not drive those of you who are really ARE in car sales away. The majority of your posts are both entertaining and informative.
They also make me realize that, being in industrial technical sales, I am indeed fortunate. It remains a business where developed relationships and technical knowledge are paramount. Much of my business is indeed closed with a hand shake - the paperwork can be taken care of later.
Those of you who are truly professional have my admiration.
IMO you did but you know what they say about opinions.
We are required by Land Rover to do those kind of events once a quarter. We can pick exactly what they are but they do have standards that need to be met and two of the events must be off site events that involve on-road/off-road driving.
I think the tax write off on those over 6,000 lbs GVW cars is 25,000 dollars now in accelerated depreciation. I wouldn't call that minuscule.
Let me ask you a question what is an acceptable amount of profit/loss on a 77,000 dollar in demand car that we don't have in stock and therefore had to have trucked in?
Is it alright for the dealership to make 2,500 dollars on that deal? Is that fair amount of compensation for our trouble. Is 150 dollar Mini commission fine for me or should I give them some of that as well?
And once again the fact is proven as to why the number of stories in this thread continue to shrink. Every one you tell opens yourself up to instant criticism.
That's not true joel. I didn't read anyone critisising BR. Some people asked questions and others made supportive comments. One or two comments made in jest. Let's not jump on those who are curious as to how and what happened.
As for the diminishing number of stories, that sounds like a comment isell would make. I think in the last month or so we've had more actual sales stories than at any other point in time.
As for the lounge chair umbrella rentals, unless the things are parked on top of the surf line, you'll have people in their little beach chairs parking themselves in front of you. So get to the beach early for prime viewing spots. :shades:
BR, I understand completely where you are coming from in this case. I am always amazed and a little dissapointed by customers who ask you to go out of your way, jump through hoops, and accomplish the un accomplishable. They treat it as a matter of course and all you can do is give them exemplary customer service ( which I am sure you do) and hope that they will realize what sets you apart from the others. I hope she came to her senses and purchased from you.
How much actual work did you put in for that deal? Did you spend hours on end on the telephone or did you make a 5 minute call here and there and just waited for responses? How much paper work did you shuffle and how long did it take to do? An hour or less? For the amount of actual work and effort that you guys do, I think $150 in a day is plenty. You're not doctors. You're retail salespersons. Just because you sell expensive items doesn't make your occupation any more or less than a salesperson. Yet, somehow you guys think you're on some higher level than your customers. To us, you're just a stumbling block in the way of what we want to get. That's why we, as consumers, grind you guys. Why should you get $1000 commission when you don't do anywhere NEAR $1000 worth of work?? :confuse:
Concerning the tax write-off, that's a one time entry until the next purchase. She'd pay more on that extra $100/month she'd be giving you than what she saved with a $25,000 tax break. That $25K break is only saving her maybe $2K for that year after all is said and done, that is, of course, unless it dips her into a lower tax bracket altogether, which I doubt since they have a "multi-million dollar business."
Next, if LR "requires" those events then LR corporate should foot the bill, not the customers or the dealership. Also, you didn't "have" to have the vehicle trucked in. You could have just as easily handed the customer off to the other dealership. Instead, your dealership chose to truck it in and pass that (probably padded) cost on to the customer. Is it alright for the dealership to make $2500 on the deal? That's strictly up to individual opinion. In mine, no. A thousand? Yes. Twentyfive hundred? No.
"Let me ask you a question what is an acceptable amount of profit/loss on a 77,000 dollar in demand car that we don't have in stock and therefore had to have trucked in?
Is it alright for the dealership to make 2,500 dollars on that deal? Is that fair amount of compensation for our trouble. Is 150 dollar Mini commission fine for me or should I give them some of that as well?"
That may not even be enough to be fair profit on a vehicle that expensive, in such demand... but especially not considering how much work you have done. In your case, like you said you have a ton of time and effort, as well as effort of others at your store and extra expenses.
When I bought my (much less expensive) car, I walked onto the lot, found the one I wanted myself, walked inside to find a salesperson, had a CarMax appraisal for my trade, knew what financing I qualified for from my credit union, and basically made them an offer right then. I think a little-profit, mini deal is fair compensation in such a case where they didn't have to make a lot of effort.
"For the amount of actual work and effort that you guys do, I think $150 in a day is plenty. You're not doctors. You're retail salespersons. Just because you sell expensive items doesn't make your occupation any more or less than a salesperson. Yet, somehow you guys think you're on some higher level than your customers. To us, you're just a stumbling block in the way of what we want to get. That's why we, as consumers, grind you guys. Why should you get $1000 commission when you don't do anywhere NEAR $1000 worth of work?? "
What about your real estate agent? He, and/or the selling/listing agent, easily made 3% of the purchase price of your house. How much "work" did they have to do, by your definition?
What about the mortgage broker? They probably got 1% of the purchase price. By your definition, did he/she do enough to earn 1% of your homes value?
How about the lawyer who closed on your house? Most charge more than $150 per hour. Lawyers aren't doctors, either.
What about your investment banker? They charge fees just to move your money around for you. How much "work" does that actually require?
Have you ever been a commissioned salesperson? $150 per day, when you work a 12 hour day, including nights, weekends and some holidays, isn't that great of a salary.
No, none of those occupations do enough work to justify what they get paid, especially not a mortgage broker or investment banker. You get no argument from me there. Now, if a salesperson spent 8 to 12 hours in front of a customer, yes, he deserves some coin for his time. But if all he's done is made some phone calls and faxed a couple forms, $150 is more than enough for that amount of work.
Nipping this one in the bud, folks. This conversation isn't a sales story anymore - it's about how much profit a car dealer should make. Coincidentally, we have a discussion with that title if anyone wants to continue.
We're also not here to pick apart the details of a salesperson's story. Can we just enjoy conversation without getting confrontational? Most of us can.
BR - that bites. She should have at least told you before you arranged the exchange.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
BR, I agree with you. Your dealership and you do not sell cars as an exercise in charity. You are not volenteers. You get paid. You have to make money on each deal. My guess is that you do not deal in nearly the volume of the local Chevy dealer. The Chevy dealer can afford to eat a sale every once in a while to either move a unit out of inventory or whatever, but you can't.
The other aspect of this is that all those extra frills are not free either. Somebody has to pay for them. If you like to be pampered and treated like royalty, you have to pony up the $ to get it. I would think this would be understood if you are buying a car that is worth more than a lot of houses.
"I figured I would get that kind of response though."
Yep, you were correct on that. I guess everyone with a story, involving some level of confrontation or misunderstanding, should expect responses that go all over the map. Some readers look for alternate perspectives from the customer's point-of-view. Some like to respond with pointed humor. A few others like to point fingers.
To all the story tellers from the Sales Frontlines: Please don't think a couple of cynical responses reflect the opinion of the majority of us readers.
As a customer/shopper, I definitely empathize with you on this story, BR. I hope all your effort pays off somehow, but I'm expecting this story won't have a happy ending(?).
I agree that sales is a tough business. As an infrequent seller of a vehicle not worth trading in I have run into some doosies. I once had a guy wanting my old $8,000 Camaro ask if he could make payments. I said sure. Handed him a cardboard box and told him to put as much as he could afford per month in the box. Then I said "when it has $8,000 in it come on back and buy the Camaro".If it's still here.
Even before Kristie said to cut this off I wasn't going to bother picking your post apart.
Its obvious you have your opinion and it is obvious you won't be swayed by anything I say. You know what they say about opinions though.
I will say one thing though we do not charge extra for doing a dealer swap. We consider it a cost of doing business and do not pass it on to the customer. I have brought cars in from as far away as South Carolina and not charged for it. The cost of trailering the car in was taken out of the gross of the deal.
The only time we have ever charged to have a car brought in was when we had to bring a car in from Arizona and the customer wanted it by a certain date. The transport company charged us about a thousand more to make that guarantee on top of the 1,500 dollars they were already charging. That was paid by the customer and was agreed to ahead of time.
Anyway I just took a drive in a 1999 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet with only 19,000 miles so I feel much better. Does your job let you do that in the middle of the day?
Oh and I now know the end of the story I will write it up later probably when I get home. I have wasted enough time on her for today.
These stories are valuable for us buyers as well as for fellow dealers. In a bargaining partnership, which is what it really comes down to, buyers shouldn't behave as if the window never closes for tweaking a deal. With the money down, that window closed, I'd think (and I'm a buyer).
THis is a good example of a sales story where the salesperson DID add value. The customer had specific wants and needs, and BR went out of his way to get her exactly what she wanted, even when she kept changing her mind.
This story is the opposite frankly of an "order taker" deal with a big back end. That would be a customer walking in, immediately picking out a specific unit, and taking the first pencil. Write it up and push the tin. In that case, it is hard to argue that the sales person deserved a big commission.
Comments
Darn it you're right. :mad:
I'm taking another weeks vacation right now...wait, make that the rest of the summer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well, right there is your problem. You take THIS PLACE too seriously. ;b
This site should be used for recreational purposes only. Any comments posted on Edmunds do not directly reflect the official position of Edmunds or its affiliates. Drink responsibly.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
But it's been fun. I'll be visiting here and mycarpace once in a while.
Adios and play nice. :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
sorry to see you go boom - please promise if you encounter a really wonkey customer you'll come back and share the story!!! we need more stories around here...
-thene
First of all, don't take a vacation in Florida! From what I've read, they charge way too much for the chairs and umbrellas. They do not offer a solar protection package, nor do they offer any Scotchguard on the seat fabric.
No, instead, I prescribe a quick trip to the local cinema during a non-peak viewing time of the week. Grab that bag of popcorn or Milkduds and watch "Ratatouille". While watching this movie, try to remember which particular boss, manager, or customer reminds you of the Head Chef in that restaurant. Although primarily a kids movie, it has a thoroughly enjoyable story involving teamwork, egos, and friendship.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yes I will still be selling cars, and my carspace page will still be updated. I just can't dedicate as much time or energy to be a regular contributor here.
If I have a wanky one I'll share the story here.
Cheers
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yeah, at least that many and who knows how many delivered lunches.
Maybe that's why we haven't heard from him lately, he's still EATING!!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
i'll just be paddling around in my kayak, enjoying the scenery, not thinking of this little gray cube i'm in...
have a fantabulous weekend everyone!!!
-thene
She got a killer deal on her 2004 Range Rover because she bought one of the very last ones and Land Rover had a very aggressive lease deal on it at the the time. We worked numbers but couldn't get to where she wanted to be. I told her that her best bet would be to extend the lease and wait till July 10th when the new programs came out.
Throughout the next few she called to see if we could do better and I always told her no I can't get anywhere close to that with current programs. I told her we would blow out our last 2007 Range Rover demo to her but it was the wrong color, too many options and just way too much money.
So the 9th of July comes by and I go out and find a couple of cars at other dealers like she wants. I all but secure a car so that tomorrow once I get the final approval from her I can just make one phone call and bring it in.
The following events happened on July 10th between 9:30 AM and 7:00 PM
The new programs start coming across and we start working with them. While we are working on them she calls to see what we got. My boss happens to pick up the phone and tells her that we are still wading through it so it will be a while.
There are a couple of other leases we need to do at the same time and there are a ton of program including new CPO programs.
11:30 AM...
We get the programs all sorted out finally and now we figure out what kind of lease is good for her. I give her a call go over all the numbers and she wants to try a couple of things different. Different terms, different mileages, 5,000 down 10,000 down 15,000 down and even different states as she has houses all over.
I hand her over to my boss because she just wants too many different scenarios and it is better for him to do it directly. He spends a good hour on the phone with her but they finally hammer something out. Oh and she wants a different color car now... We take a 2,000 dollar deposit to seal everything down.
1:00 pm
I call up the place I had before tell them the person changed their mind and I don't need that car anymore.
I spend almost the whole rest of the day trying to find that car and at 7:00 PM when I still haven't found it. I have two dealerships that will let me know tomorrow if I can have it. Tomorrow is my day off so I guess I will come in tomorrow to wrap everything up.
The following events happened on July 11th between 10:30 AM and 5:00 PM
Since today is my day off I come in later then normal and by the time I get there one of my people has called to say I can have the car. We already have someone on the way to get it and it should be here late this afternoon. We ended up giving them a 2008 LR2 for the 2007 Range Rover.
I call her let her know that the car is on the way and that I will fax her a credit app. She says great do you have the VIN so I can get my insurance company on it. I tell her the VIN and ask her to have the insurance company call me.
11:30 AM
Insurance company calls me and I give them all the info. About 15 minutes later I have a binder and card flowing across my fax machine but still no credit app back from the customer.
12:30 PM
I get another call from the customer wanting to know if she can pick up the car today. I say no I don't think so as the truck with your car has not gotten here yet and probably won't get here until late this afternoon. We could probably do tomorrow morning though. What is the latest you can take it tomorrow morning? Well I am going to the beach tomorrow but I could come in at 11:00 AM at the latest.
Ok we can make 11:00 AM work see you then. Oh by the way I still need the credit app back and a copy of your drivers lic.
She says no problem I will get them soon.
1:30 PM
No car yet but I don't expect it for a couple of more hours at the earliest and sill no credit app.
2:30 PM
Car shows up early and I take it for a quick drive to put gas in it. Seems all ok I give it to service to put floor mats in it and do a PDI Re-Check.
2:30
Call the customer let her know we have the car now and it is all good. She says great I just want to change the lease one more time. The accountants only want to put down 5,000 dollars not 10,000 dollars. No problem I say I will call your right back.
2:35
Call her back let her know what the numbers change too.
She pauses for a minute doesn't say anything. Well ok but you see I have this other lease quote here from another dealer and it is about 100 bucks less a month then yours. What are you going to do about that?
EXCUSE ME?
To be continued I have to go to work now.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Couple questions, BR. Why couldn't she have picked up the vehicle that day just because it was arriving late in the afternoon? That's an expensive vehicle. Why not go the extra mile for the customer? And with you not working with her to be able to pick the thing up the same day, that's more incentive for her to go to the other dealer (as if the $100/month savings isn't enough.)
The other question is, if she has "houses all over," why is she even financing the vehicle? It would seem she could just lay down cash for it. And WHY ON EARTH would she even contemplate putting $5K, $10K, $15K down on a LEASE???? :confuse: Is she crazy?? Doesn't seem like smart financial decisions are her "thing." Can't see how she has houses all over, unless she's simply cosigned on a bunch of them; in which case, no, smart financial decisions aren't her "thing."
That's the joy of working in a high end store. The low end guys would have booted her long ago.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
a. the other vehicle cost less
b. she's not putting down the same money
c. the terms are different
If it's different, you'll be able to show her the error in her comparison. If it's the same animal that you have, then:
a. you jump through hoops to improve the deal (if that's possible)
b. tell her to consider that other deal less the $2K deposit she placed on the vehicle she MADE A DEAL with your dealership. At the very least keep enough of the deposit to cover your mini and the vehicle trade expenses.
Best of luck! Please let us know how this ends.
Having lots of 'stuff' doesn't necessarily equate to lots of cash. That $100 a month could make the difference between paying the mortgage or not on one of those houses.
i think BR should just use the "take away" close. "oh, ok then, well enjoy your new car!" and see what she says...
i'd love to be there when she starts stammering because she knows that her "deal" is really a good one, and that the $100 less a month is a crock of stinky poo.
-thene :P
She has accountants making personal car lease decisions for her?? Oooh, I see a "sense of entitlement" written all over her, based on your story. I wonder if she was directly talking to another dealer, or if one of her accountants was involved with that negotiation? Either way, she should have disclosed this to you, BR, as well as hold off on that $2k deposit.
As someone else said, an "I'm gonna do what's best for me, regardless of the means to that end." attitude might be expected at high-volume stores, but I wouldn't expect that at a high-end store such as yours. I would think both sides should expect a little more integrity than that! :mad:
I'm looking forward to the rest of the story...
She leases because the vehicle goes through the company and it is a company expense. She leases a Range Rover because of the over 6000 lbs GVWR tax deduction. Why does she want to put 5,000 d0llars down on the lease? I have no idea but I am guessing she has some cash she wants to bury into something and not report as income.
This is a nearly 80,000 dollar car with a 1,700 dollar plus lease payment.
Typically you people don't get it. I have no problem with her shopping around. What I do have a problem with is her making me jump through hoops for weeks and then bust my hump for 36 hours to drag her car in after she changed the color combo she wanted then she springs this other deal on me. After we already spent the money to bring the car in from another dealer and after we already took a 2,000 dollar deposit.
I guess like Craig said in this day in age a person's word has no value.
Its not like we were sticking her with full MSRP either. We offered to blow our 2007 Demo out to her for 1,000 over cost but it was the wrong color and the wrong options. We were selling the Range Rover that we had to truck in for 4,000 dollars off. The only way to hit her number was to sell the truck for a loss and that is not something we are going to do.
In order to offer the things we offer, Land Rover loaner cars, Valet pick up and delivery, hand wash with every service, catered events and parties both on site and off, off-road driving schools, fly-fishing trips we have to make a certain amount per vehicle. Do you think the service department makes any money sending a valet driver 45 minutes one way to pick up a car and drop off a loaner for an oil change?
No dealer in our market would honor that price but some big volume place around Boston, New Jersey or Manhattan would. None of the dealers around us even have the right car I know because I spent a whole day trying to find one as far south as Virginia.
We gave her a good price for our area but we aren't losing 1,000 dollar to sell her a car. She can go buy it at whatever dealer gave her that quote, she wouldn't tell me who did it, and good luck getting them to pick her car for service when they are two states away.
Oh and the reason we couldn't deliver the car to her yesterday evening was because we didn't have the MSO yet. The dealer we got the car from does not keep those documents on site and so they had to overnight it to us from another location. Normally when we do business with them we have the swap planned out a few days in advance and they transfer the MSO to the store then send it up with the car. This swap was all rushed out so they never had a chance too transfer the documents. We received them in an overnight envelope this morning. I can't deliver a car without a MSO/Title on site that is company policy.
I can quite see why you're pissed, but I think you're viewing her as someone who should be giving you the same respect as you've given her.
I'd guess that she views it very differently. You're just one one the many 'little' people who provide the services in her life. She probably exists on a higher plane than most of us.
As Paris Hilton says, "I have people to do that".
No, I think I get it. The sad thing is that customers such as that lady ruin it for the rest of us customers who wish to be taken on our word.
The "OMG 100 dollar less a month you must be screwing her over" response.
I actually didn't know the end of this story till I got in this morning but I will finish it up a little later.
Fact is, most of us buy a car when we're in the market. Manufacturers try to lure us into the showroom with cash back, low interest deals, clearance sales, etc. But, unless you're interested in buying a car, at that particular time, none of that means diddly.
I love Costco. I like their prices and I like their selection. I like the quality of the products they have for sale. 3-4 times/year, they send out coupons for even more savings. If they have something I need on sale at those times, I take advantage of the coupons. But, if I'm already stocked up with paper towels, TP, have no need for that swell leather recliner on sale, I don't use the coupons.
Same way with a car. Regardless of the cash back, special interest rates, clearance prices, if I'm not in the market, none of that matters to me.
What's the price of the car, right now, when I'm in the market? We research. We go out and touch the new iron. We decide to buy. Anyone who does their homework, their research, will get a good deal...particularly if they buy from someone they trust.
Where many get into trouble is when they want to buy when they're upside down in their trade-in. They want to fit a square peg into a round hole.
They get into trouble when they don't do their due diligence. When they don't know what the market is for the car they're interested in.
One thing's for certain, unless they're dealing in distressed merchandise (kind of like shopping for clearance, dented, can goods at the grocery store, if that's your thing), dealerships won't lose money on any deal. Asking them to do so won't get that new car in your driveway.
You don't have to be a master negotiator to get a good deal. Stick to your guns. Shop around a little. Look at the ads in the newspaper. Troll around Edmunds. Look around the dealership's lot and see how many of the cars your interested in is in their inventory. Be confident in your numbers. You'll get a pretty good indication of what the market is.
It's up to you whether you want to participate in the "offer...bump....offer...bump" of typical negotiations. Or, like bobst, and many others here, make your offer, your one and only offer, and be willing to walk if the dealership can't/won't accept.
Wringing your hands over whether you spent $50-$100 more than the next guy is an exercise in frustration. You really don't know unless you were at the table, with the other purchaser, when the deal is made, whether it's better than your deal.
This I know to be true, no matter what your purchase price is, someone, somewhere, is going to tell you how you've been taken. Doesn't matter if it's true, or not.
The deal you make is a good deal for you, at the time you made it.....period! Coming back later and asking if it's a good deal or not will do little more than open yourself up for criticism.
Every one you tell opens yourself up to instant criticism.
BR the story you tell reminds me of the late 90's when were leasing fully loaded Expeditions for a ridiculously low payment. Then when the lease termed 2 years later people wanted to know why there payment was tripling from the last time.
It was not real easy to explain except tell them that as good as the lease program was then it is that bad now.
The "OMG 100 dollar less a month you must be screwing her over" response. ...
Nobody responded that way, at least I didn't. But for you to assume that, maybe you are trying to screw her over. Like you said somebody has to pay for those fly fishing trips, and Lord knows no car dealership is going to do something nice for free.
Anyway, wealthy people don't get that way by spending money foolishly and not recognizing a good deal when they see one. And if she's possibly worried about a miniscule tax break by owning a road rhinosaurus, it's probably a safe bet that the $100 savings is equally important to her. Buying one of these things shows she's neither prudent nor thrifty, but she's still not above penny pinching where possible.
They also make me realize that, being in industrial technical sales, I am indeed fortunate. It remains a business where developed relationships and technical knowledge are paramount. Much of my business is indeed closed with a hand shake - the paperwork can be taken care of later.
Those of you who are truly professional have my admiration.
We are required by Land Rover to do those kind of events once a quarter. We can pick exactly what they are but they do have standards that need to be met and two of the events must be off site events that involve on-road/off-road driving.
I think the tax write off on those over 6,000 lbs GVW cars is 25,000 dollars now in accelerated depreciation. I wouldn't call that minuscule.
Let me ask you a question what is an acceptable amount of profit/loss on a 77,000 dollar in demand car that we don't have in stock and therefore had to have trucked in?
Is it alright for the dealership to make 2,500 dollars on that deal? Is that fair amount of compensation for our trouble. Is 150 dollar Mini commission fine for me or should I give them some of that as well?
That's not true joel. I didn't read anyone critisising BR. Some people asked questions and others made supportive comments.
One or two comments made in jest. Let's not jump on those who are curious as to how and what happened.
As for the diminishing number of stories, that sounds like a comment isell would make. I think in the last month or so we've had more actual sales stories than at any other point in time.
As for the lounge chair umbrella rentals, unless the things are parked on top of the surf line, you'll have people in their little beach chairs parking themselves in front of you. So get to the beach early for prime viewing spots. :shades:
edited: One negative poster.
I understand completely where you are coming from in this case. I am always amazed and a little dissapointed by customers who ask you to go out of your way, jump through hoops, and accomplish the un accomplishable. They treat it as a matter of course and all you can do is give them exemplary customer service ( which I am sure you do) and hope that they will realize what sets you apart from the others. I hope she came to her senses and purchased from you.
Concerning the tax write-off, that's a one time entry until the next purchase. She'd pay more on that extra $100/month she'd be giving you than what she saved with a $25,000 tax break. That $25K break is only saving her maybe $2K for that year after all is said and done, that is, of course, unless it dips her into a lower tax bracket altogether, which I doubt since they have a "multi-million dollar business."
Next, if LR "requires" those events then LR corporate should foot the bill, not the customers or the dealership. Also, you didn't "have" to have the vehicle trucked in. You could have just as easily handed the customer off to the other dealership. Instead, your dealership chose to truck it in and pass that (probably padded) cost on to the customer. Is it alright for the dealership to make $2500 on the deal? That's strictly up to individual opinion. In mine, no. A thousand? Yes. Twentyfive hundred? No.
Is it alright for the dealership to make 2,500 dollars on that deal? Is that fair amount of compensation for our trouble. Is 150 dollar Mini commission fine for me or should I give them some of that as well?"
That may not even be enough to be fair profit on a vehicle that expensive, in such demand... but especially not considering how much work you have done. In your case, like you said you have a ton of time and effort, as well as effort of others at your store and extra expenses.
When I bought my (much less expensive) car, I walked onto the lot, found the one I wanted myself, walked inside to find a salesperson, had a CarMax appraisal for my trade, knew what financing I qualified for from my credit union, and basically made them an offer right then. I think a little-profit, mini deal is fair compensation in such a case where they didn't have to make a lot of effort.
What about your real estate agent? He, and/or the selling/listing agent, easily made 3% of the purchase price of your house. How much "work" did they have to do, by your definition?
What about the mortgage broker? They probably got 1% of the purchase price. By your definition, did he/she do enough to earn 1% of your homes value?
How about the lawyer who closed on your house? Most charge more than $150 per hour. Lawyers aren't doctors, either.
What about your investment banker? They charge fees just to move your money around for you. How much "work" does that actually require?
Have you ever been a commissioned salesperson? $150 per day, when you work a 12 hour day, including nights, weekends and some holidays, isn't that great of a salary.
We're also not here to pick apart the details of a salesperson's story. Can we just enjoy conversation without getting confrontational? Most of us can.
BR - that bites. She should have at least told you before you arranged the exchange.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
The other aspect of this is that all those extra frills are not free either. Somebody has to pay for them. If you like to be pampered and treated like royalty, you have to pony up the $ to get it. I would think this would be understood if you are buying a car that is worth more than a lot of houses.
Hope you pull this one off. You've certainly earned your living on this one.
Yep, you were correct on that. I guess everyone with a story, involving some level of confrontation or misunderstanding, should expect responses that go all over the map. Some readers look for alternate perspectives from the customer's point-of-view. Some like to respond with pointed humor. A few others like to point fingers.
To all the story tellers from the Sales Frontlines: Please don't think a couple of cynical responses reflect the opinion of the majority of us readers.
As a customer/shopper, I definitely empathize with you on this story, BR. I hope all your effort pays off somehow, but I'm expecting this story won't have a happy ending(?).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Its obvious you have your opinion and it is obvious you won't be swayed by anything I say. You know what they say about opinions though.
I will say one thing though we do not charge extra for doing a dealer swap. We consider it a cost of doing business and do not pass it on to the customer. I have brought cars in from as far away as South Carolina and not charged for it. The cost of trailering the car in was taken out of the gross of the deal.
The only time we have ever charged to have a car brought in was when we had to bring a car in from Arizona and the customer wanted it by a certain date. The transport company charged us about a thousand more to make that guarantee on top of the 1,500 dollars they were already charging. That was paid by the customer and was agreed to ahead of time.
Anyway I just took a drive in a 1999 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet with only 19,000 miles so I feel much better. Does your job let you do that in the middle of the day?
Oh and I now know the end of the story I will write it up later probably when I get home. I have wasted enough time on her for today.
This story is the opposite frankly of an "order taker" deal with a big back end. That would be a customer walking in, immediately picking out a specific unit, and taking the first pencil. Write it up and push the tin. In that case, it is hard to argue that the sales person deserved a big commission.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.