Sounds like when I was home from college and would stay out all night. I always brought a box of donuts home with me and would tell the folks I couldn't sleep and went to Dunkins.
Years ago we used to run pretty hard around here. We would get off work at 9:00 or 10:00 pm and then go hustle darts or pool till in some bar till 4:00 am, go home catch a couple hours sleep, a shower and a shave and be back at work by 8:00 am to catch an up.
Any how morning this guy comes in and told us his wife tore him a new one.
She asked what time he got home and he said oh around 11:00 pm I guess. She asked him when they started delivering the paper before 11:00 pm? He got home at like 5:00 am and parked on top of the morning paper.
Reminds me of when I worked for UPS. We would get out of work at around 11:00 or 12:00 go to a bar somewhere and close it down. In the bad old days back when the upper level supervisors had nearly unlimited expense accounts they would take us out at least once a week.
This all worked out fine until the Hooters opened up five miles down the road from the Hub. What used to be a once a week all expenses paid for by the Company party started becoming an every day thing.
We got to greedy and they put a cap on the expense accounts and then started black listing certain businesses.
Guess who? I just got home, spent and hour in the shower. Ate my dinner and figured I'd relax and watch a movie. Serpico is on my hard drive so I'm getting my headphones ready when my cell phone rings. It's the store, should I answer or not?. I pick it up and it's Fred the ghost. It seems he's having the inner struggles of a man and now wants the truck. "Mack, It's Fred. I'm out here on the lot looking at the truck. I was just at the Overnight Cafe and decided to stop by. I think I want the truck. Can I take it overnight?" he asks. "Fred, I told you maybe once or twice we were going to sell the truck to someone else if you didn't call on me." I tell him. "I know I was being hard headed. I went all over the place and got the same story about the interest rate." he says. "It's a free country. You can spend your money wherever you want." I tell him. "I'm sorry Mack. My Mother didn't raise me right. I was always left alone. They say loneliness is just a word but I know better. Please Mack, can I take the truck overnight?" he pleads. "Well, once upon a time I would have done that but I'm not at the store right now and I'm not about to go back with all this thunder and lightning. I see the approaching storm on the horizon. Maybe tomorrow at the sunrise I might think a little different about it." I tell him. "You sing a mean tune kid, but I'm a man and I can handle it. I don't want to have a falling out" he responds "I know you've said that maybe once or twice." I respond. "Is there someone that can get me the keys so I can take it overnight? I really like to drive it tonight and come back and do the paperwork tomorrow." he says. "Nope, our lot attendant has the keys. I gave them to her this morning to stock the truck back in since you told me you were going to hold off." I tell him. "What did I have you guys down to? 16 something?" he asks. "$16,490.00" I reply "and there's no one to help you tonight while we're waiting for you to decide. And if you hang around the lot after closing the policeman will take you in." I tell him.
"Can you come down another $500.00?" he asks. "I don't think so, but I'll ask. Maybe you should think twice next time." I tell him. "Will you call me tomorrow and let me know?" he asks. "It won't be upon arrival, I'll do it after I talk with the UCM."
We'll see what happens tomorrow. Will Fred attain the American Dream? Or will he be getting a case of the South California Purples? ....................Stay tuned.... Mackabee :shades:
I've been lurking on a certain marque-specific board, mainly because it's always entertaining- I usually try to guess which member will be the first to develop opposable thumbs. In any event, there's one guy who is a complete imbecile-even by that board's standards. Here's the short version: The guy buys a new Mazdaspeed3(@$26000)- 60 month note. Three months later he decides he wants an EVO, and visits the local Mitsu dealer. He winds up buying a 2005 with 15K miles- on a seven year note with a $625 monthly payment. And no, I don't blame the dealer; the kid was simply an idiot.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
A month ago we had a woman trade in a 2007 Lexus IS250 AWD loaded to the hilt with NAV and a back up camera for...
A 2004 Discovery... :surprise:
Financed with her credit union 72 months for both of them.
A few months before that we had a guy trade in a 2006 Ridgeline for a 2004 Range Rover. His Ridgeline only had about 10,000 miles on it and the Range Rover had 30,000 miles on it. :confuse:
ok, ok, so this leads back to the discussion many months ago about steering a customer right, if only because it's the right thing to do, human to human.
i mean, you're not there to just take the customer's money...
i would think there's a way to tell if someone is obviously manic / bi-polar, drunk, off their meds.
personally, i'd love to hear a few more stories where the salesperson convinced someone NOT to purchase a vehicle that they couldn't really afford.
Go away for a few days...actually still overseas, and I miss a Jerry Springer show, complete with fighting, making up, censorship and thought provoking epilogue!
At least I didn't miss the Johnsons. Perhaps they will end buying the next generation Sienna :P
BR: a little empathy for you. People should not have dealers transport and prep cars if they are not going to go through with the deal. Autos seem to bring ot the worst in people. They will go out of their way to save a few bucks and think nothing about spending more than they have to other places. Only thing that comes close perhaps is Black Friday mayhem for computer and electronics stuff :sick:
There is a fine line there User777. If I told every person that came through my office who was buying something they could not afford not to I would be blowing out 15 deals a week.
I see it every day, and what I try to remember is that just because I handle my finances a certain way does not mean every one will.
Had a young couple yesterday buying a new Escape Hybrid, he made $2000 a month plus $220 for a second job and his wife made $1200. So they had a household income of $3420 before taxes. That means after Uncle Sam tagged them and they paid for health insurance, etc they had over 20% of there take home pay going to a car payment. Plus she had a car payment already of $350.
But there credit was perfect, they never missed a beat and he was trading a Pathfinder with 220K miles on it, so its not like they spend all there time out buying new cars.
We live in a world that people live beyond there means. Thats what keeps the economy rolling.
I have told my customers before that what there doing may not be in there best interest but I can't spend there money for them and we will do what ever they want to do.
personally, i'd love to hear a few more stories where the salesperson convinced someone NOT to purchase a vehicle that they couldn't really afford.
I’d go along with some tales of where the sales person convinced a buyer to not to buy when it was in the buyers best interest to hold off for a while even though that would be “Non-sales Stories”. However, in the examples given, there was no mention of the buyers not being able to afford what they wanted to buy.
Lets face it, what can be more terrible than when you get tired of your ride after a couple of months and force yourself to live with it? As we've heard here many times ”life’s too short”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
joel0622, the way i see it, a "non-sales" story is still a potentially good story. it's educational, and helps the non-sales people like me reading this forum form a more complete and balanced impression of your profession.
a few months ago, i suggested perhaps a sales to a person extended beyond their means was something worth discussing, and the interesting response i got (to me anyway) was almost uniformly, every salesperson indicated it wasn't their responsibility to tell a customer how to structure their finances.
which i didn't buy then, and still don't.
i think you'd agree, that in another business, the home lending biz, the people moving adjustable rate loans knew a priori when a person would be loosing their homes.
it's preditory from my perspective, and i believe it's being investigated.
look, i'm not saying it's a salespersons responsibility to REFUSE to sell a person a car they shouldn't be in, but I DO EXPECT them to warn someone off in pretty clear words.
i mean, i hear the salespeople saying it's their responsibility to assess a persons wants and needs and get them in a car, but in some respects, i know their ultimate responsibility is to move product...
these 4,5,6 year notes on vehicles... working people over on monthly payments, it just doesn't sit right with a consumer like myself.
it foster's the great distrust some consumer's have for the profession.
preditory is perhaps too strong, but that is what comes to mind.
I was also in on that fiscal responsibility discussion. My main contention with that was that prior to that there were sales people here stating that they were working for the customer and had their best interests at heart. Then they come out and said that the customers fiscal ability was not their responsibility. They cant have it both ways.
Now if it were just "Their financial situation is not our concern" I would just let it be because I could see their argument. But on the heals of "We work for the customer" it just doesn't work.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Why is it a salepersons responsibility to give financial counseling to a customer? People are going to buy what they want if they qualify for it regardless if they can really afford it. I have a custmer who just financed a 2001 A8L for 54 months with 96000 miles on it. I tried to discourage him but he had to have it. If i had not sold it to him someone else would have. As adults you have to take responsibilty for your actions, not point fingers at others when you do something stupid.
predatory is perhaps too strong, but that is what comes to mind. We have already beaten this discussion to death. The proliferation of home foreclosures was actually driven by outright fraud. False credit applications and appraisal fraud is the driving force of the problem you discussed. Fraud is NOT the topic of this discussion. The average car loan is now over 66 months. 60 months is the max most of us write loans for. The banks have tons of actuarial data involved in their approval process. A repo will cost the bank money - therefore they try to keep the repo rate under 1%. All of us professionals will do our best to fit the payment to the budget - if for no other reason that if you don;t, there will be no bank approval. We are not a priest, there is no confessional booth in the showroom. We are not our brother's keeper, but we work for the customer, not against him. Be it mini deal or big gross, we can sleep at night. In a like manner, a real estate agent will have a pre-approval before showing houses.
I have a custmer who just financed a 2001 A8L for 54 months with 96000 miles on it. I tried to discourage him but he had to have it. If i had not sold it to him someone else would have.
As far as I'm concerned you did your part. Once you explain something like this to an adult and they don't listen to you, I agree; why let someone else eat your lunch?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Great writing technique. I watch a lot of black and white movies too. LOL. Let me know if you can help with my dilemma. I'm in process of buying 2007 Sentra SL $17,200 after 1K in rebates. My dilemma is that their finance guy tells me that one of the rebates is tied to financing thru Nissan.No problem great rates and I have great credit. He then states that in order to get the rebate I have to purchase a $599. Gap policy. I told him that the rebate doesn't say that and he says he will check with his district manager. The car is due in Monday. I like the idea of Gap insurance,I like the rebate but not the price of it. Does anyone know whether this rebate is really tied to obtaing a Gap policy? Nissan Corp keeps referring back to the Dealership for that answer.
Hey Mack: While the city sleeps, I was doing some research and, instead of having them AM mourning blues, I'm now a happy man. This time I won't let you down. But I must say, this manipulation of Chicago songs, well, it better end soon. Otherwise, it will be the end for just you 'n me.
Overnight Cafe The American Dream Once Upon a Time The Approaching Storm At the Sunrise Fallin' Out Once or Twice Policeman The Inner Struggles of a Man I'm a Man South Carolina Purples Sing a Mean Tune Kid Call On Me Free Country Mother Loneliness is Just a Word (Sonny) Think Twice Thunder & Lightning Waiting For You to Decide
Mack: Although I greatly enjoy Chicago's work on their first 10 or so albums, there are a few other bands I followed more closely. Genesis is probably near the top of my list, until they became the Phil Collins Band in the mid-80s. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to incorporate Dance On A Volcano or Blood On The Rooftops into a good sales story! :P
Thank you for the compliment. I took creative writing in High school and college (yes I did go three years)I would check the incentives here on Edmunds. Sounds to me the finance guy is just trying to get you to finance with them and also sell you GAP. You can get gap through your insurance company also. What other cars have you considered? Mack
We have a winner!!!!! :shades: Whoo Hooo! You da man! Great job! I also believe their best work was the first 10 albums. Like I said before, after Kath passed away, Cetera left and Danny was "dismissed" they were never the same. They were way ahead of their time. I could use Phil's "Something happened on the way to heaven" on a story or "In the air tonight" What do you think? Got to go. I just wasted two hours with a recalcitrant customer. Mackabee
He then states that in order to get the rebate I have to purchase a $599. Gap policy. I told him that the rebate doesn't say that and he says he will check with his district
You do not have to buy the Gap insurance to get the additional $500 from Nissan. You only have to Finance with Nissan. If your credit is as good as you say it is you (700 or better ) you will qualify for 4.9% for 60 months or .7% for 36 months. Good luck!
"...If you credit is good...you will qualify for 4.9% for 60 months..."
That sounds to good to be true. I've seen those rebate offers with the condition that you finance through the car company's finance arm. I assumed that they would hit you with a higher rate to recover some of the rebate. However if they give you a competitive rate why the requirement?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I'm going to take the .7 for 36 months. Tell him to keep the Gap insurance and have him return the sheet I signed assigning the financing rebate to him. This way if the rebate exist Nissan will send it to me. I priced the Gap Insurance thru my credit union. $199 My credit score is above 750 so Their financing rate is good. I just think I beat them up on the price a lttle and they are trying to recoup.
Having said that, I intend to send several people to the dealership to purchase as well as service my car there,so I just hope they settle down and get this over with without any further confusion. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but I like to verify the info they gave me as well. Thanks folks for the response.
I checked out Corrola,civic,mazda 3, and even looked a little bigger at Camry Accord and Altima. When it came down to it I liked the Sentra SL for size, ride, and appointments. It has what I need in other words. Toyota and Honda will not budge as far as price here in SOuth Carolina or back in New York for that matter. I like there rep but it's like they have fixed their price as far as bottom line. Basically I offered 3-5% over dealer cost.
I used to sell Real Estate and have sent a few people away. They would insist on extending beyond there means or want to buy a house with synthetic stucco and I would refer them to someone else. I like to sleep well at night. Some appecited it,others took offense.
i think brokers were going for sales on people that were marginally credit worthy. i also think people failed to contemplate and appreciate the consequences of being upside down... of getting a better fixed rate later, they were doomed before they started. i am sure there was outright fraud too, but in general, there was money to be made getting people into homes they could ill-afford.
credit card companies do this too.
i thought you guys were proud of the fact you could get people financed that banks wouldn't.
in my opinion, the preditory home loan situation is not too dissimilar than people buying vehicles that depreciate steeply and who have been set up with long term loans. they aren't idiots. they just don't understand the situation. they are further being handcuffed into a backwardly mobile fiscal lifestyle.
as another person posted, i recall several salespeople here indicating they were working for the customer... that was a very PC position and all...
at some point, though "fitting payment to the budget" just gets them in a vehicle they shouldn't be in. yes/no?
in the end, i suppose it's more interesting to read (and write) about the poor person and significant other (or co-sign), whos credit scores don't sum to 700, but i'd like to actually read about situations where salespeople steered (or tried to steer) someone away from the fiscal abyss.
a person signing a contract and they don't understand the situation? I think often they understand what is convenient at the time. The house or car they really cannot afford but "need" or "deserve". They may be "handcuffed", but they put the cuffs on themselves. :surprise:
It is obvious what you think of sales people. It is obvious that any discussion of the real world will not change your opinion. This forum is for stories from sales people, not telling us we are bad guys. If you do not like us or our profession, please find another place to vent.
Actually, the title of the forum is stories from the front lines. I don't see it as a salesperson only, or stories from salespersons only forum.
I don't think any forum on Edmunds is established to discriminate in that manner.
I actually am interested in hearing about giving a customer the bad news, rather than enabling bad choices, in the context that several have found it interesting to discuss the bad choices (?) people are making.
It's a relevant inquiry and I still see the discussion as relevant. I understand that you do not.
I don't know what you mean about "discussion of the real world" re: my opinion. I'm postulating why the profession is mistrusted by some consumers. That's pretty real world.
This board is about sale stories. The people on this board don't like to hear anything negative about their industry. I once shared a story about how I went in to pay cash for a car, (FICO at 780) and I made a mistake of letting the dealer run a credit report before we had a deal. (Remember, I was paying cash.)
So the dealer said it looked like we couldn't get together on the numbers - and with "my good credit" we could easily finance the difference. I said no-way and had my hand on the door handle of the showroom when they said OK - we will go with your offer.
How many buyers would have been this "hard line" like me? How many would have just put extra profit in the dealer's pocket book and been locked in to a payment of some amount for three to five years?
But you seldom read about these things in "sales stories".
That sounded like good advice in a slightly storied form more than venting.
Besides it makes for a good read to hear about pitfalls as well as profits.
Sales stories are becoming fewer and fewer because there just aren't any good "ripped their head off" stories anymore. Buyers are more savvy these days thanks to sites like Edmunds and stories from both sellers and buyers here.
How about we let the good folks at Edmunds determine what constitutes a story or a frontline.
have him return the sheet I signed assigning the financing rebate to him. This way if the rebate exist Nissan will send it to me. I priced the Gap Insurance thru my credit union. $199
You should be recieving $1000 rebate. $500 for the car and $500 for financing thru Nissan with .7% for 36 months. If you have graduated college in the last two years you will qualify for another $500. If that isn't the case that is still OK. As for signing the rebate form over to yourself. You don't want to do that.
What I mean is you want to sign the rebate over to the store. Make sure they take the rebate off the discounted price. ( which I'm sure you did already ) By signing the rebate over to the store you are not financing the extra $1000. I think you know what I am saying. It sounds good when I say it, I'm just not good at typing what I am trying to say.
Maybe I can take lessons from MAck :P
On the Gap insurance. If you are putting money down you probrably don't need GAP ins. I would only suggest GAP Ins. if you had a high interest rate for a long period of time, or upside down. You are financing for 36 months with .7%. I don't really think you will be in a negative equity situation. I would hold off even from your Ins. company.
However if they give you a competitive rate why the requirement?
It is just another way putting incentive's out. Nissan has a couple different vehicles where if you finance with them you'll get a great rate plus a additional $500.
I guess what upsets me is that you seem to put all salespeople into one mold. I think you will find the salespeople here to be professional. I know that I have never "ripped" somebodys head off and I have never pressured anyone into anything. Maybe I take things too personally, but my job is done honestly. I have never done a deal that someone did not agree to. Let people take responsibility for their own actions. Do I try to lead someone to the best value for the money - of course, that is part of my job. If they stray will I refuse to sell to them - of course not.
How many buyers would have been this "hard line" like me? How many would have just put extra profit in the dealer's pocket book and been locked in to a payment of some amount for three to five years?
A lot of buyers are "hard line" like you today. There is so much education out there today on how to buy a car. Just walk away the "book" tells them. Don't bring your trade. You don't get there best offer unless you leave and come back. It seems today if your at work and you say " Hey I'm thinking of going to buy a car today " Somebody that hears that knows how to but a car or knows someone that does. There is hardly anybody getting clubed like a seal or raked over the coals like there used to be. Sure it happens sometimes. But those are ussualy situatins of a buy here pay here. Then you ahve to think those people deserve to make a lot of money on a car because 1) they are taking all the risk and 2) how many people do they see a month. Probrably not as many as I see in a new car store. Today the standards of new car sales are higher than they have evr been. Look at the surveys you get. The manufacturer, JD Powers ETC. Everyone is looking at the dealerships these days.
Alright enough of that now I'm ranting but I think you get the idea of what I'm saying. Maybe you disagree, I don't know.
I know that many people with a house purchase have the attitude that its a 30 year loan and in future years they will make more money. So a loan that will be tough to make now will be easier 5 years from now and easier 10 years from now and so on. Its poor logic but thats how some people think.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Get the idea? Great on paper, but doesn't really work in practice. Kinda like communism.
Ahh communism where did you go wrong?
Probably about a year ago we get this couple in looking at a Range Rover. I don't pick them up as I am busy working at my desk.
They are in a Escalade I think but it might have been a Navigator. So my co-worker does the whole drill shows them the car takes them on the off-road demo course and starts working up numbers on their trade.
"We know we are a little upside down," they say ,"but we really want to get out of the truck."
"Thats alright," my co-worker says, "most people don't even know they are upside down so you are in ok shape. How much do you owe?"
Now I don't remember exactly how much they owed on the SUV but I remember hearing a sharp intake of breath and his pin falling to the floor.
It was a ton of money way, way more then could ever be buried into a Range Rover or any car for that matter. This was the middle of the model year and there were no incentives on the Range Rover.
They must have rolled in negative equity from some other car into the SUV and they might have done it more then once.
Undaunted he asks how much they want to put down.
It wasn't much maybe 5,000 dollars or so. Which isn't much on a 77,000 dollar car.
They also want to keep their payments about the same. They would be ok with twenty or thirty bucks more a month.
He can already see that this is a lost cause and starts trying to work them into another vehicle. A LR3 would be good he suggests as it would still have the third row like their current SUV. They aren't interested in the LR3 since they don't like the styling. No real surprise there that is what most people say who don't get the styling.
They are dead set on the Range Rover and dead set on a new one.
Our UCM waves at him so he gets up to see what she thought of the trade. As soon as he tells her what they owe on it she throws up her hands in frustration.
"Even if we went to 84 months and took no profit we couldn't hit their target and I am not putting someone into 84 months on any car let alone a Range Rover."
He goes, "I know but we could probably do it on a LR3 right? I am sure we could do it on a service loaner."
She says, "Yeah probably lets show them some numbers on that and a Range Rover as well just to show how unrealistic that scenario is."
They work everything out and show it to the couple.
They only want a Range Rover and they aren't interested in anything else.
This is when it starts to turn bad. They start getting upset and asking why we won't help them. We try to explain to them that in order to get into a Range Rover for the monthly payment they want would require more then double what they want to put down and six year plus financing.
They leave a little upset but we thought we at least made them understand what the situation was.
Flash forward a few weeks later...
One of our reps is in and we are talking. He pulls us aside and tells us that he is going to give us a heads up about something.
We ask what is going on and he tells us that someone has filed an official complaint against the dealership.
Well what kind of complaint we ask?
He gets a very serious look on his face and says Racism.
At once all three of us in the room go WHAT?
He says that a couple has complained that we refused to sell them a car. That we gave them the run around and wouldn't help them. That we wouldn't even look at their trade and after we told them they couldn't afford a Range Rover we threw them out of the dealership.
Of course none of this was true.
We spent a couple of hours at least with those people and treated them like we would treat anyone. We even tried to put them in a car that would fit their budget and their needs better.
When we tried to help them when we tried to educate them on the situation they just called us racists.
Luckily the complaint never went anywhere but we did have to do sensitivity training agai
You're right about the LR3. I saw one a couple of hours ago at the local Farm Fresh. Looks like one medium size box. The Range Rover on the other hand is beautiful. Sorry you ran into a customer like that. It happens. Mackabee
Ehh like you said it happens. I am just glad I didn't have to deal with them directly.
The LR3 is all about function and the design mirrors that. They designed the whole car around the third row seats. People that get the function of its funky shape are cool with the styling but other people are put off by it.
It's easy to believe what those crazy customers did as they didn't want to take responsibility for their stupid mistakes. The Escalade/Navigator speaks volumns... American depreciation!
Here is my box... :P
Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Last Saturday after work I took my car to the car wash. The guy in line behind me has what appears to be an early 90's (993?) 911. It was Guards Red over Black leather. I've never personally been a fan of those early 90's 911s, but the car was in beautiful shape so I pay him a compliment and tell him that his car is beautiful & is in really nice shape.
The guy says thank-you and proceeds to tell me it isn't just any 911, but a 1990 Carrera 4. He went on to explain what the 4 meant (like I don't know) and how rare of a car it is. He then starts to tell me how he bought it 2 years ago after searching far and wide on the internet.
He then starts telling me that you don't have to be rich to have a nice lifestyle in this country (this is when I look to pull up my metaphorical boots) and that it is all about image and how other people perceive you.
He talks a little more about the car and that it only has 80,000 miles on it and he's only driven it maybe 3,000 mies total since he bought it.
He tells me that the car only cost him $25,000 and that he took out a 7 year loan and pays $400 per month and people think he is rich because he drives a Porsche.
That's right math majors, he took out a 7 year loan on a 15 (fifteen) year-old car that will be 22 years old by the time he pays off the loan.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I only looked at the side and back. Mark's picture above tells a different story. I like the front. The couple that got out of it must have been in their mid twenties. I didn't want to intrude and I was on my way home so I didn't ask anything about the vehicle. Mack
Comments
Years ago we used to run pretty hard around here. We would get off work at 9:00 or 10:00 pm and then go hustle darts or pool till in some bar till 4:00 am, go home catch a couple hours sleep, a shower and a shave and be back at work by 8:00 am to catch an up.
Any how morning this guy comes in and told us his wife tore him a new one.
She asked what time he got home and he said oh around 11:00 pm I guess. She asked him when they started delivering the paper before 11:00 pm? He got home at like 5:00 am and parked on top of the morning paper.
BUSTED!!!!
Reminds me of when I worked for UPS. We would get out of work at around 11:00 or 12:00 go to a bar somewhere and close it down. In the bad old days back when the upper level supervisors had nearly unlimited expense accounts they would take us out at least once a week.
This all worked out fine until the Hooters opened up five miles down the road from the Hub. What used to be a once a week all expenses paid for by the Company party started becoming an every day thing.
We got to greedy and they put a cap on the expense accounts and then started black listing certain businesses.
It's the store, should I answer or not?. I pick it up and it's Fred the ghost. It seems he's having the inner struggles of a man and now wants the truck.
"Mack, It's Fred. I'm out here on the lot looking at the truck. I was just at the Overnight Cafe and decided to stop by. I think I want the truck. Can I take it overnight?" he asks. "Fred, I told you maybe once or twice we were going to sell the truck to someone else if you didn't call on me." I tell him.
"I know I was being hard headed. I went all over the place and got the same story about the interest rate." he says. "It's a free country. You can spend your money wherever you want." I tell him.
"I'm sorry Mack. My Mother didn't raise me right. I was always left alone. They say loneliness is just a word but I know better. Please Mack, can I take the truck overnight?" he pleads.
"Well, once upon a time I would have done that but I'm not at the store right now and I'm not about to go back with all this thunder and lightning. I see the approaching storm on the horizon. Maybe tomorrow at the sunrise I might think a little different about it." I tell him.
"You sing a mean tune kid, but I'm a man and I can handle it. I don't want to have a falling out" he responds "I know you've said that maybe once or twice." I respond. "Is there someone that can get me the keys so I can take it overnight? I really like to drive it tonight and come back and do the paperwork tomorrow." he says.
"Nope, our lot attendant has the keys. I gave them to her this morning to stock the truck back in since you told me you were going to hold off." I tell him.
"What did I have you guys down to? 16 something?" he asks. "$16,490.00" I reply "and there's no one to help you tonight while we're waiting for you to decide. And if you hang around the lot after closing the policeman will take you in." I tell him.
"Can you come down another $500.00?" he asks. "I don't think so, but I'll ask. Maybe you should think twice next time." I tell him. "Will you call me tomorrow and let me know?" he asks. "It won't be upon arrival, I'll do it after I talk with the UCM."
We'll see what happens tomorrow. Will Fred attain the American Dream? Or will he be getting a case of the South California Purples?
....................Stay tuned....
Mackabee :shades:
Then Mack goes to the waffle hut for breakfast.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's always great to go to bed with a smile on my face, that oughta do it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The guy buys a new Mazdaspeed3(@$26000)- 60 month note. Three months later he decides he wants an EVO, and visits the local Mitsu dealer. He winds up buying a 2005 with 15K miles- on a seven year note with a $625 monthly payment.
And no, I don't blame the dealer; the kid was simply an idiot.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
A month ago we had a woman trade in a 2007 Lexus IS250 AWD loaded to the hilt with NAV and a back up camera for...
A 2004 Discovery... :surprise:
Financed with her credit union 72 months for both of them.
A few months before that we had a guy trade in a 2006 Ridgeline for a 2004 Range Rover. His Ridgeline only had about 10,000 miles on it and the Range Rover had 30,000 miles on it. :confuse:
i mean, you're not there to just take the customer's money...
i would think there's a way to tell if someone is obviously manic / bi-polar, drunk, off their meds.
personally, i'd love to hear a few more stories where the salesperson convinced someone NOT to purchase a vehicle that they couldn't really afford.
At least I didn't miss the Johnsons. Perhaps they will end buying the next generation Sienna :P
BR: a little empathy for you. People should not have dealers transport and prep cars if they are not going to go through with the deal. Autos seem to bring ot the worst in people. They will go out of their way to save a few bucks and think nothing about spending more than they have to other places. Only thing that comes close perhaps is Black Friday mayhem for computer and electronics stuff :sick:
I see it every day, and what I try to remember is that just because I handle my finances a certain way does not mean every one will.
Had a young couple yesterday buying a new Escape Hybrid, he made $2000 a month plus $220 for a second job and his wife made $1200. So they had a household income of $3420 before taxes. That means after Uncle Sam tagged them and they paid for health insurance, etc they had over 20% of there take home pay going to a car payment. Plus she had a car payment already of $350.
But there credit was perfect, they never missed a beat and he was trading a Pathfinder with 220K miles on it, so its not like they spend all there time out buying new cars.
We live in a world that people live beyond there means. Thats what keeps the economy rolling.
I have told my customers before that what there doing may not be in there best interest but I can't spend there money for them and we will do what ever they want to do.
I’d go along with some tales of where the sales person convinced a buyer to not to buy when it was in the buyers best interest to hold off for a while even though that would be “Non-sales Stories”.
Lets face it, what can be more terrible than when you get tired of your ride after a couple of months and force yourself to live with it? As we've heard here many times ”life’s too short”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
the way i see it, a "non-sales" story is still a potentially good story. it's educational, and helps the non-sales people like me reading this forum form a more complete and balanced impression of your profession.
a few months ago, i suggested perhaps a sales to a person extended beyond their means was something worth discussing, and the interesting response i got (to me anyway) was almost uniformly, every salesperson indicated it wasn't their responsibility to tell a customer how to structure their finances.
which i didn't buy then, and still don't.
i think you'd agree, that in another business, the home lending biz, the people moving adjustable rate loans knew a priori when a person would be loosing their homes.
it's preditory from my perspective, and i believe it's being investigated.
look, i'm not saying it's a salespersons responsibility to REFUSE to sell a person a car they shouldn't be in, but I DO EXPECT them to warn someone off in pretty clear words.
i mean, i hear the salespeople saying it's their responsibility to assess a persons wants and needs and get them in a car, but in some respects, i know their ultimate responsibility is to move product...
these 4,5,6 year notes on vehicles... working people over on monthly payments, it just doesn't sit right with a consumer like myself.
it foster's the great distrust some consumer's have for the profession.
preditory is perhaps too strong, but that is what comes to mind.
Now if it were just "Their financial situation is not our concern" I would just let it be because I could see their argument. But on the heals of "We work for the customer" it just doesn't work.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We have already beaten this discussion to death. The proliferation of home foreclosures was actually driven by outright fraud. False credit applications and appraisal fraud is the driving force of the problem you discussed. Fraud is NOT the topic of this discussion. The average car loan is now over 66 months. 60 months is the max most of us write loans for. The banks have tons of actuarial data involved in their approval process. A repo will cost the bank money - therefore they try to keep the repo rate under 1%. All of us professionals will do our best to fit the payment to the budget - if for no other reason that if you don;t, there will be no bank approval. We are not a priest, there is no confessional booth in the showroom. We are not our brother's keeper, but we work for the customer, not against him. Be it mini deal or big gross, we can sleep at night. In a like manner, a real estate agent will have a pre-approval before showing houses.
As far as I'm concerned you did your part. Once you explain something like this to an adult and they don't listen to you, I agree; why let someone else eat your lunch?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If anyone can remember, post what the number was for me.
-Moo
Let me know if you can help with my dilemma.
I'm in process of buying 2007 Sentra SL $17,200 after 1K in rebates. My dilemma is that their finance guy tells me that one of the rebates is tied to financing thru Nissan.No problem great rates and I have great credit. He then states that in order to get the rebate I have to purchase a $599. Gap policy. I told him that the rebate doesn't say that and he says he will check with his district manager. The car is due in Monday. I like the idea of Gap insurance,I like the rebate but not the price of it. Does anyone know whether this rebate is really tied to obtaing a Gap policy? Nissan Corp keeps referring back to the Dealership for that answer.
Overnight Cafe
The American Dream
Once Upon a Time
The Approaching Storm
At the Sunrise
Fallin' Out
Once or Twice
Policeman
The Inner Struggles of a Man
I'm a Man
South Carolina Purples
Sing a Mean Tune Kid
Call On Me
Free Country
Mother
Loneliness is Just a Word
(Sonny) Think Twice
Thunder & Lightning
Waiting For You to Decide
Mack: Although I greatly enjoy Chicago's work on their first 10 or so albums, there are a few other bands I followed more closely. Genesis is probably near the top of my list, until they became the Phil Collins Band in the mid-80s. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to incorporate Dance On A Volcano or Blood On The Rooftops into a good sales story! :P
-Moo
Mack
Actually, that would be the Village Inn. Right mack?
I could use Phil's "Something happened on the way to heaven" on a story or "In the air tonight"
Mackabee
You do not have to buy the Gap insurance to get the additional $500 from Nissan. You only have to Finance with Nissan. If your credit is as good as you say it is you (700 or better ) you will qualify for 4.9% for 60 months or .7% for 36 months. Good luck!
That sounds to good to be true. I've seen those rebate offers with the condition that you finance through the car company's finance arm. I assumed that they would hit you with a higher rate to recover some of the rebate. However if they give you a competitive rate why the requirement?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My credit score is above 750 so Their financing rate is good. I just think I beat them up on the price a lttle and they are trying to recoup.
Thanks folks for the response.
When it came down to it I liked the Sentra SL for size, ride, and appointments. It has what I need in other words.
Toyota and Honda will not budge as far as price here in SOuth Carolina or back in New York for that matter. I like there rep but it's like they have fixed their price as far as bottom line.
Basically I offered 3-5% over dealer cost.
They would insist on extending beyond there means or want to buy a house with synthetic stucco and I would refer them to someone else. I like to sleep well at night. Some appecited it,others took offense.
credit card companies do this too.
i thought you guys were proud of the fact you could get people financed that banks wouldn't.
in my opinion, the preditory home loan situation is not too dissimilar than people buying vehicles that depreciate steeply and who have been set up with long term loans. they aren't idiots. they just don't understand the situation. they are further being handcuffed into a backwardly mobile fiscal lifestyle.
as another person posted, i recall several salespeople here indicating they were working for the customer... that was a very PC position and all...
at some point, though "fitting payment to the budget" just gets them in a vehicle they shouldn't be in. yes/no?
in the end, i suppose it's more interesting to read (and write) about the poor person and significant other (or co-sign), whos credit scores don't sum to 700, but i'd like to actually read about situations where salespeople steered (or tried to steer) someone away from the fiscal abyss.
I don't think any forum on Edmunds is established to discriminate in that manner.
I actually am interested in hearing about giving a customer the bad news, rather than enabling bad choices, in the context that several have found it interesting to discuss the bad choices (?) people are making.
It's a relevant inquiry and I still see the discussion as relevant. I understand that you do not.
I don't know what you mean about "discussion of the real world" re: my opinion. I'm postulating why the profession is mistrusted by some consumers. That's pretty real world.
I once shared a story about how I went in to pay cash for a car, (FICO at 780) and I made a mistake of letting the dealer run a credit report before we had a deal. (Remember, I was paying cash.)
So the dealer said it looked like we couldn't get together on the numbers - and with "my good credit" we could easily finance the difference. I said no-way and had my hand on the door handle of the showroom when they said OK - we will go with your offer.
How many buyers would have been this "hard line" like me? How many would have just put extra profit in the dealer's pocket book and been locked in to a payment of some amount for three to five years?
But you seldom read about these things in "sales stories".
Besides it makes for a good read to hear about pitfalls as well as profits.
Sales stories are becoming fewer and fewer because there just aren't any good "ripped their head off" stories anymore. Buyers are more savvy these days thanks to sites like Edmunds and stories from both sellers and buyers here.
How about we let the good folks at Edmunds determine what constitutes a story or a frontline.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
You should be recieving $1000 rebate. $500 for the car and $500 for financing thru Nissan with .7% for 36 months. If you have graduated college in the last two years you will qualify for another $500. If that isn't the case that is still OK. As for signing the rebate form over to yourself. You don't want to do that.
What I mean is you want to sign the rebate over to the store. Make sure they take the rebate off the discounted price. ( which I'm sure you did already ) By signing the rebate over to the store you are not financing the extra $1000. I think you know what I am saying. It sounds good when I say it, I'm just not good at typing what I am trying to say.
Maybe I can take lessons from MAck :P
On the Gap insurance. If you are putting money down you probrably don't need GAP ins. I would only suggest GAP Ins. if you had a high interest rate for a long period of time, or upside down. You are financing for 36 months with .7%. I don't really think you will be in a negative equity situation. I would hold off even from your Ins. company.
Good Luck!!!
Anyway Janda good luck.
It is just another way putting incentive's out. Nissan has a couple different vehicles where if you finance with them you'll get a great rate plus a additional $500.
A lot of buyers are "hard line" like you today. There is so much education out there today on how to buy a car. Just walk away the "book" tells them. Don't bring your trade. You don't get there best offer unless you leave and come back. It seems today if your at work and you say " Hey I'm thinking of going to buy a car today " Somebody that hears that knows how to but a car or knows someone that does. There is hardly anybody getting clubed like a seal or raked over the coals like there used to be. Sure it happens sometimes. But those are ussualy situatins of a buy here pay here. Then you ahve to think those people deserve to make a lot of money on a car because 1) they are taking all the risk and 2) how many people do they see a month. Probrably not as many as I see in a new car store. Today the standards of new car sales are higher than they have evr been. Look at the surveys you get. The manufacturer, JD Powers ETC. Everyone is looking at the dealerships these days.
Alright enough of that now I'm ranting but I think you get the idea of what I'm saying. Maybe you disagree, I don't know.
Have a great weekend! :shades:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I talked to another customer and said that maybe this car is more than they can afford. They went and bought from another dealership.
I told a customer that they were spending too much money on the car. They told me to mind my own business and went and bought at another dealership.
Get the idea? Great on paper, but doesn't really work in practice. Kinda like communism.
-Moo
Ahh communism where did you go wrong?
Probably about a year ago we get this couple in looking at a Range Rover. I don't pick them up as I am busy working at my desk.
They are in a Escalade I think but it might have been a Navigator. So my co-worker does the whole drill shows them the car takes them on the off-road demo course and starts working up numbers on their trade.
"We know we are a little upside down," they say ,"but we really want to get out of the truck."
"Thats alright," my co-worker says, "most people don't even know they are upside down so you are in ok shape. How much do you owe?"
Now I don't remember exactly how much they owed on the SUV but I remember hearing a sharp intake of breath and his pin falling to the floor.
It was a ton of money way, way more then could ever be buried into a Range Rover or any car for that matter. This was the middle of the model year and there were no incentives on the Range Rover.
They must have rolled in negative equity from some other car into the SUV and they might have done it more then once.
Undaunted he asks how much they want to put down.
It wasn't much maybe 5,000 dollars or so. Which isn't much on a 77,000 dollar car.
They also want to keep their payments about the same. They would be ok with twenty or thirty bucks more a month.
He can already see that this is a lost cause and starts trying to work them into another vehicle. A LR3 would be good he suggests as it would still have the third row like their current SUV. They aren't interested in the LR3 since they don't like the styling. No real surprise there that is what most people say who don't get the styling.
They are dead set on the Range Rover and dead set on a new one.
Our UCM waves at him so he gets up to see what she thought of the trade. As soon as he tells her what they owe on it she throws up her hands in frustration.
"Even if we went to 84 months and took no profit we couldn't hit their target and I am not putting someone into 84 months on any car let alone a Range Rover."
He goes, "I know but we could probably do it on a LR3 right? I am sure we could do it on a service loaner."
She says, "Yeah probably lets show them some numbers on that and a Range Rover as well just to show how unrealistic that scenario is."
They work everything out and show it to the couple.
They only want a Range Rover and they aren't interested in anything else.
This is when it starts to turn bad. They start getting upset and asking why we won't help them. We try to explain to them that in order to get into a Range Rover for the monthly payment they want would require more then double what they want to put down and six year plus financing.
They leave a little upset but we thought we at least made them understand what the situation was.
Flash forward a few weeks later...
One of our reps is in and we are talking. He pulls us aside and tells us that he is going to give us a heads up about something.
We ask what is going on and he tells us that someone has filed an official complaint against the dealership.
Well what kind of complaint we ask?
He gets a very serious look on his face and says Racism.
At once all three of us in the room go WHAT?
He says that a couple has complained that we refused to sell them a car. That we gave them the run around and wouldn't help them. That we wouldn't even look at their trade and after we told them they couldn't afford a Range Rover we threw them out of the dealership.
Of course none of this was true.
We spent a couple of hours at least with those people and treated them like we would treat anyone. We even tried to put them in a car that would fit their budget and their needs better.
When we tried to help them when we tried to educate them on the situation they just called us racists.
Luckily the complaint never went anywhere but we did have to do sensitivity training agai
Mackabee
From your lips. . .
The LR3 is all about function and the design mirrors that. They designed the whole car around the third row seats. People that get the function of its funky shape are cool with the styling but other people are put off by it.
Here is my box... :P
Mark156
The guy says thank-you and proceeds to tell me it isn't just any 911, but a 1990 Carrera 4. He went on to explain what the 4 meant (like I don't know) and how rare of a car it is. He then starts to tell me how he bought it 2 years ago after searching far and wide on the internet.
He then starts telling me that you don't have to be rich to have a nice lifestyle in this country (this is when I look to pull up my metaphorical boots) and that it is all about image and how other people perceive you.
He talks a little more about the car and that it only has 80,000 miles on it and he's only driven it maybe 3,000 mies total since he bought it.
He tells me that the car only cost him $25,000 and that he took out a 7 year loan and pays $400 per month and people think he is rich because he drives a Porsche.
That's right math majors, he took out a 7 year loan on a 15 (fifteen) year-old car that will be 22 years old by the time he pays off the loan.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Mack