I am not here to change your mind, just as either of our opinions are not correct for everybody.
Gee, look what happened as a result of our discussion while I was out to lunch and conversation with some old friends. :confuse:
It looks like a lot of people (seems to be all buyers as opposed to you guys in the biz) here that don't agree with either extended or certified warranties and here I thought it was just a me against you thing. But I agree it's a personal thing to buy or not to buy, It's just that personally most car buyers here don't buy the stuff you guys in the biz are pushing. :surprise:
I also regularly see repair bills equal to or much much greater than the warranty cost.
If you're talking about Range Rovers, they aren't known nearly as much for their reliability as they are for their high price.
There is a value to many people.
I agree again but it isn't with myself, and by far, most of the somewhat knowledgeable buyers here. Again, if you're selling something you aren't going to tell people it isn't worth the price that's being paid for it, no surprise to me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It's all about choice. I have a Garmin Nuvi that probably has a better interface than many built in Navs. Way better than MB. However, I don't want a box and wires hanging in my $50K+ vehicle. I happen to want the conveniences and can afford them. It's my reward for working hard.
Warranty companies dictate lower labor and parts costs.
Now you're really scaring me.
When anybody mentions dictating the cost of something, I'm thinking of hurry up so you can get back to working on that higher paying rate job and using inferior after market parts. Please tell me this ain't so. :confuse: :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My goal is that my customer has a satisfied ownership experience as half of my biz is repeat or referral. I believe in warranties, clear bras (this is Colorado and road rash is prevalent) and 2 window tint (front to match the back). Also, in certain situations, Gap and Wear Care are also of value. I do not sell mop and glow, croak and choke or other pay and spray products - don't believe in them. What gets me is that in many of the non-biz guys, that makes me a greedy bad guy. Not at all - needy, yes - Greedy, NO
Should I pay my home owners insurance of $1200 a year to protect a paid off $425,000? Seems like a good bet.
Should I pay health insurance $5000 a year? Yep since my wife had $80,000 worth of medical treatment for breast cancer (shes fine. now)
The cost ratio is much better. Should I pay $2000 for a notebook computer and another $300 to "protect it? I think not.
You SHOULD insure yourself against MAJOR financial ruin ONLY, I don't call the 1% chance of replacing a transmission for $3000 or another complex system major financial ruin.
If someone cannot come up with $3000 how in the hell should they pay $1500 for an EW "just in case"
Don't tell me. The ole car salesman's rule. Its all about the payments. Well sorry to say then the $1500 EW becomes MORE then $1500!!! Car salesman are so use to selling payments they forget its really money.
The point is you don't need a warranty. Cars are built to last longer then most warranties IF they are maintained. Asian cars much longer.
Its a bad bet no matter how many "complex systems" a car has. Very few will experience a failure and if they do on a $20,000 car I am sure they can afford to fix it or trade it like so many do every couple years anyway.
I'm with you on this one brother! I also hate working Sundays. Every once in a while I'll get someone that buys that day or worse the next. :shades: However, I would rather be at home with my family. Today was unusual. We had a big thunderstorm come by which pretty much ruined the day. I did have an older couple looking at a Camry SE of all things. They were in their late 60's early 70's, I asked them what attracted them to this particular car and they said the way it looked WITH the exception of the grille. I then explained that the CE and LE have the same color keyed grille, the XLE has chrome around, the SE has the blacked out one and the Hybrid chrome around and on the slats of the grille. They were ok with that. I would have had a sale except my GSM is trying to quit smoking and blew them out! :sick: He is one of the coolest cats I know so I was very surprised he did that. He needs to take a chill pill or go back to smoking. Mackabee
I believe in warranties, clear bras (this is Colorado and road rash is prevalent) and 2 window tint (front to match the back). Also, in certain situations, Gap and Wear Care are also of value.
My goodness, the list goes on and on with you, huh.
I do not sell mop and glow, croak and choke or other pay and spray products - don't believe in them.
Gee, you're human afterall.
What gets me is that in many of the non-biz guys, that makes me a greedy bad guy. Not at all - needy, yes - Greedy, NO
I never said you were greedy (see above) but I was trying to make the point that you are in sales so you are therefore "needy". Nothing wrong with that, if I sold for a living I'd be trying to sell everything that was sellable but not that "mop and glow, croak and choke or other pay and spray products" that you don't like either.
OK, now that we have all that stuff out of the way, when shall we go out and get that Coor's?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Lets drop this whole argument please. In your opinion you don't need a warranty but some people really do and some cars really do.
The start of this year marked my 10 year anniversary in the car business. I think I have a little bit more experience in this area then the average consumer.
For all of the folks here that say "just put that money in a savings acount, or just put a little aside each month". That is a fantastic idea if you can afford to do that.
I've already admitted to being one of these guys and I'm not going to apologize for it.
Not everyone is you and not every one has $1500 laying around to plunk in an account, plus if you have major problems $1500 will get you no where.
I never said everyone can do it but everyone should try! Once that account has grown (it takes a lot of years but that "time value of money" thing does work) so when that $1500 + repair bill hits there is a good chance you'll be able to cover it or at the very worst be a leg up on it.
As far as that account thing goes, the way I've looked at it is it's just another way to force yourself to save money because if you don't force yourself to save early in life, you won't.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I run a portable Garmin that allows me to set a trip up on my laptop or home computer, then upload it to the unit. I can review the route it thinks is best, modify it, then save it prior to the upload. I do my trip planning sitting at my desk with a real computer using a full-size screen, a mouse & a keyboard -- not punching buttons (or the screen) in the car.
After the trip, I can download the actual track of the journey. I know to the second when I was where. I can look at the vertical profile on a 17" screen. I can save the trip and waypoints for future reference. I have seven years of trips saved, should I wish to return, and use those files regularly. Where was that restaurant in Laval? When did I visit that foundry in New Hampshire?
Built-in units may cost a lot more, but (for me at least) they do significantly less. I use my unit in rentals much of the time.
You SHOULD insure yourself against MAJOR financial ruin ONLY, I don't call the 1% chance of replacing a transmission for $3000 or another complex system major financial ruin.
Why do so many people find this hard to understand? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I guess i don't see what the big deal is about getting an extended warranty or certified used? If a consumer is looking to keep their car/truck for a longer period of time its worth getting you cant predict what may happen after the bumper to bumper coverage, however if they intend on trading in after 3 or 4 years then its not worth it since they would be trading when the bumper to bumper coverage ends.
"Remember the old adage K I S S ? It seems car designers have all but forgotten this!"
I concur, but I wouldn't place all the blame on the car designers. John Q Customer is also responsible for this. I contribute or lurk in several other forums, and I am completely amazed at how many people are shopping for all the latest gee-whiz high-tech option packages. And it's no longer limited to just the high-line brands!
I remember when the VW Touareg SUV was first introduced, word started spreading quickly that its advanced, new adjustable air suspension system was prone to serious electrical issues. Yet, in the shoppers forum, many would-be customers claimed they really wanted/needed all those bells and whistles, including that suspension package. I wonder how many of those customers actually drive it off-road?? :confuse:
So, when there is demand for all the latest high-tech features, and the manufacturer can make a very good profit on those options, I'm guessing it is difficult for the "KISS" engineer to convince the corporate bean counters to avoid the added complexity.
Incidentally, as an electrical engineer, I usually see the other extreme among co-workers of mine. A few years ago someone in an adjacent cubical was having a fit because he couldn't find a good mid-size sedan without power windows! :surprise:
The X-Type is a Taurus although that may be closer to the truth..
Actually it is based on a FORD MONDEO .. which was sold primarliy in Europe ... although it might look like a Taurus ... er 500 er .. Tarus .. ah WHATEVER FORD is calling it THIS week..
Hey I still own a Betamax! Works like a charm and picture is way better than VHS. Too bad it didn't catch on. Sony always came out with the best technology but it was expensive so other manufacturers jumped on the wagon with a different system that was cheaper and more affordable to a wider population. I love their Trinitron tv's, nothing beats them for picture quality. :shades: If they made cars I'd be driving one too! Mackabee
Adjustable air suspension isn't anything new and it has always been nothing but trouble.
Back in the 50's GM offered it as an option and it was pure junk. Most people (at great expense) ended up converting back to conventional suspension. Citreon used it and it was a disaster now it's back as an option on modern cars and once again, it's just troublesome and of dubious value.
I totally agree with the others who think cars just have too many frivious gadgets.
I'm just catching up on all the messages from today. I have a horrendous headache :sick: Don't know why since I had my daily dose of caffeine :confuse: I'll get back to the Shue story this coming week. We got two days left in the selling month so I have to focus like a laser beam! :shades: Mackabee
I don't buy very often. This past week I was trying to put together a deal on a new SUV. I read this thread often, just for entertainment. I was starting to feel for the car salesman and the perception that they have to deal with everyday. I had gotten offers from 6-7 dealers. I was amazed at how many salesmen tried to make me think that the other dealers lower offers where untrustworthy. I was told by several, it was to good to be true. Its hard to feel bad for salesmen if they are going to spend more time putting other ones down, that trying to beat their offers. Most would then offer to match the offer they said was to good to be true.
That sounds like a lot of work to me. I just do it the old fashioned way I go to yahoo maps or mapquest, enter my home address as the starting point and wherever I'm going as the destination and BINGO! up pops a map with the route on it and driving instructions which tell me where to exit and make turns. Works fine for me. Mackabee
It's been my experience that buyers who are coming from a domestic to an import seem to buy the extended warranties more so than repeat import buyers. I for one have never purchased an extended warranty on anything except the last tv I bought and mainly because I read how great it was but too many people were having them fail after three months. I paid like 19 bucks for it and it was for a year with a replacement guarantee. Must have been the early production samples as mine is still going like a champ. My youngest son bought me a watch for father's day and paid 11 bucks for a warranty also. I told him to go get his money back. He was duped into it. Why would you buy a year warranty on a watch that already comes with a year warranty. He's still young and learning. What really burns me up is some of our finance managers have no clue what a Toyota certified warranty consists of so they get mad when I sell a certified used vehicle and tell the customer they don't need an extended warranty. :P Mackabee
I don't do that. What I do tell a customer that comes in with a ridiculously low offer is ask why didn't they buy the car? They usually respond with "I wanted to see if I could beat it." and they leave and presumably go back to the dealer that low balled them. Mackabee
Nothing personal but you come into a forum populated by sales people and just ooze your bitterness. Those of us who are professionals love the service we provide. This is a place for stories and information, not attacks. I for one have owned about 25 cars (I am older than you) and had many pleasant experiences before I got into the business. Maybe it is the approach that produces the end result.
Not a car salesman here, but I don't understand getting upset with someone who is just trying to make money. I understand that they are in business to make money, and it is my job not to spend any more of mine that necessary. If you don't want something, just say No. I've never gotten mad when someone ask me if I would like to value size my order. Heck, sometimes I do want to add extra cheese on my order.
Let's see...you've been around since when? Oh, yesterday.
Well, welcome to our little forum.
I think if you got off your high horse and learned a bit about some of us, our background, education level and accomplishments you just might be surprised.
Another newcomer with an attitude bursts on the scene!
Those arrogant business leaders in Detroit "fought" the onslaught of quality...
Quality is conformance with customer requirements. Obviously, customer requirements have changed. But this is not really the place to discuss those issues.
He feels it is his responsibility to stand up for those of us who can't stand up for themselves. He represents people who can't read and those who can't say, No thank you.
Attitude in driving is the key! I watched kids, with hot rods that the other guys drooled over, wrap them around trees. One had a nice 'Cuda bought by Daddy. That thing would run. He and a car load of friends out on Friday or Saturday night, a couple of beers and too fast on a turn. They learn the car does better with the wheels on the ground. No one was particularly hurt, but it was stupid.
LOL... good one tidester. But, our sales friends should have known better than to have taken that sizeable chunk of bait. Made for some entertaining commentary though.
Since you will have to pay taxes, I would take the cash and pay the taxes from it. Otherwise, you have to come up with the cash. On the other hand, I could randomly pick a car and trade it for something else....
Went looking for a 2008. Couldn't get past all the 2007s still sitting on the lot. Said to greeter "how much is this blue 2007 now?" He quotes xxx. Hmmm xxx is what the 2008 costs. Glad they didn't accept my TMV offer last year on the 2007. Maybe I'll wait for the 2009s.
tbaxxon and I have both paid our dues and "earned" the right to spend on our terms and in our comfort zone. Next.
I completely agree. When presenting your offer, try to build value in what the customer can get from your dealership. It really just throws a bad light on everyone when you knock down another dealership.
Certain things you can point out, like higher doc fees and ADMs. But telling people about the terrible practices of car salesmen at a dealership just really doesn't help matters.
Comments
Gee, look what happened as a result of our discussion while I was out to lunch and conversation with some old friends. :confuse:
It looks like a lot of people (seems to be all buyers as opposed to you guys in the biz) here that don't agree with either extended or certified warranties and here I thought it was just a me against you thing. But I agree it's a personal thing to buy or not to buy, It's just that personally most car buyers here don't buy the stuff you guys in the biz are pushing. :surprise:
I also regularly see repair bills equal to or much much greater than the warranty cost.
If you're talking about Range Rovers, they aren't known nearly as much for their reliability as they are for their high price.
There is a value to many people.
I agree again but it isn't with myself, and by far, most of the somewhat knowledgeable buyers here. Again, if you're selling something you aren't going to tell people it isn't worth the price that's being paid for it, no surprise to me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I dropped my brand new Nuvi first day. Now it has road rash :sick:
Now you're really scaring me.
When anybody mentions dictating the cost of something, I'm thinking of hurry up so you can get back to working on that higher paying rate job and using inferior after market parts. Please tell me this ain't so. :confuse: :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Should I pay my home owners insurance of $1200 a year to protect a paid off $425,000? Seems like a good bet.
Should I pay health insurance $5000 a year? Yep since my wife had $80,000 worth of medical treatment for breast cancer (shes fine. now)
The cost ratio is much better. Should I pay $2000 for a notebook computer and another $300 to "protect it? I think not.
You SHOULD insure yourself against MAJOR financial ruin ONLY, I don't call the 1% chance of replacing a transmission for $3000 or another complex system major financial ruin.
If someone cannot come up with $3000 how in the hell should they pay $1500 for an EW "just in case"
Don't tell me. The ole car salesman's rule. Its all about the payments. Well sorry to say then the $1500 EW becomes MORE then $1500!!! Car salesman are so use to selling payments they forget its really money.
The point is you don't need a warranty. Cars are built to last longer then most warranties IF they are maintained. Asian cars much longer.
Its a bad bet no matter how many "complex systems" a car has. Very few will experience a failure and if they do on a $20,000 car I am sure they can afford to fix it or trade it like so many do every couple years anyway.
Mackabee
Obviously, it's insurance and nothing more.
and, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about it being in the payments. You did!
Actually, it was because Beta was limited to about an hour of taping time and movies were two hours. VHS could tape movies.
Wow, so far off topic I'm lost.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My goodness, the list goes on and on with you, huh.
I do not sell mop and glow, croak and choke or other pay and spray products - don't believe in them.
Gee, you're human afterall.
What gets me is that in many of the non-biz guys, that makes me a greedy bad guy. Not at all - needy, yes - Greedy, NO
I never said you were greedy (see above) but I was trying to make the point that you are in sales so you are therefore "needy". Nothing wrong with that, if I sold for a living I'd be trying to sell everything that was sellable but not that "mop and glow, croak and choke or other pay and spray products" that you don't like either.
OK, now that we have all that stuff out of the way, when shall we go out and get that Coor's?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The start of this year marked my 10 year anniversary in the car business. I think I have a little bit more experience in this area then the average consumer.
I've already admitted to being one of these guys and I'm not going to apologize for it.
Not everyone is you and not every one has $1500 laying around to plunk in an account, plus if you have major problems $1500 will get you no where.
I never said everyone can do it but everyone should try! Once that account has grown (it takes a lot of years but that "time value of money" thing does work) so when that $1500 + repair bill hits there is a good chance you'll be able to cover it or at the very worst be a leg up on it.
As far as that account thing goes, the way I've looked at it is it's just another way to force yourself to save money because if you don't force yourself to save early in life, you won't.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I ain't allowed to go to the one in my town no more, so it's gotta be your place.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
After the trip, I can download the actual track of the journey. I know to the second when I was where. I can look at the vertical profile on a 17" screen. I can save the trip and waypoints for future reference. I have seven years of trips saved, should I wish to return, and use those files regularly. Where was that restaurant in Laval? When did I visit that foundry in New Hampshire?
Built-in units may cost a lot more, but (for me at least) they do significantly less. I use my unit in rentals much of the time.
YMMV.
those NAV, Climate Control, Audio integrated display options are not for this commuter!
We agree again.
When you risk reliability for the sake of sophistication, that tells me it's a poor design !
Why try to make a car a 747 jumbo jet. Remember the old adage K I S S ? It seems car designers have all but forgotten this ! :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Why do so many people find this hard to understand? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I concur, but I wouldn't place all the blame on the car designers. John Q Customer is also responsible for this. I contribute or lurk in several other forums, and I am completely amazed at how many people are shopping for all the latest gee-whiz high-tech option packages. And it's no longer limited to just the high-line brands!
I remember when the VW Touareg SUV was first introduced, word started spreading quickly that its advanced, new adjustable air suspension system was prone to serious electrical issues. Yet, in the shoppers forum, many would-be customers claimed they really wanted/needed all those bells and whistles, including that suspension package. I wonder how many of those customers actually drive it off-road?? :confuse:
So, when there is demand for all the latest high-tech features, and the manufacturer can make a very good profit on those options, I'm guessing it is difficult for the "KISS" engineer to convince the corporate bean counters to avoid the added complexity.
Incidentally, as an electrical engineer, I usually see the other extreme among co-workers of mine. A few years ago someone in an adjacent cubical was having a fit because he couldn't find a good mid-size sedan without power windows! :surprise:
That S-Type is the same as my Lincoln LS..
The X-Type is a Taurus although that may be closer to the truth..
Actually it is based on a FORD MONDEO .. which was sold primarliy in Europe ... although it might look like a Taurus ... er 500 er .. Tarus .. ah WHATEVER FORD is calling it THIS week..
BR care to correct me if I am wrong/mistaken
Too bad it didn't catch on. Sony always came out with the best technology but it was expensive so other manufacturers jumped on the wagon with a different system that was cheaper and more affordable to a wider population. I love their Trinitron tv's, nothing beats them for picture quality. :shades: If they made cars I'd be driving one too!
Mackabee
Back in the 50's GM offered it as an option and it was pure junk. Most people (at great expense) ended up converting back to conventional suspension. Citreon used it and it was a disaster now it's back as an option on modern cars and once again, it's just troublesome and of dubious value.
I totally agree with the others who think cars just have too many frivious gadgets.
What exactly do you do for a living?
Bevermind, I really don't care.
Mackabee
Mackabee
Mackabee
Mackabee
Sell em what they don't need.......etching, Scotch guard, Warranties on Certified cars.
Yeah the Tower Rats are the worse breed. Closely followed by the floor manager.
As heard over a paging system or loudpeaker:
Bitter .. party of one (1), your table is ready!!
Bitter, party of one (1), your table is ready
Well, welcome to our little forum.
I think if you got off your high horse and learned a bit about some of us, our background, education level and accomplishments you just might be surprised.
Another newcomer with an attitude bursts on the scene!
No worries, we're used to it!
Quality is conformance with customer requirements. Obviously, customer requirements have changed. But this is not really the place to discuss those issues.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
No wonder some salespeople don't want to post stories anymore. Please don't stop b/c of trolls like this one.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Read the title of the forum. This is not the place for his tirade. Take it somewhere else.
LOL... good one tidester. But, our sales friends should have known better than to have taken that sizeable chunk of bait. Made for some entertaining commentary though.
tbaxxon and I have both paid our dues and "earned" the right to spend on our terms and in our comfort zone. Next.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Certain things you can point out, like higher doc fees and ADMs. But telling people about the terrible practices of car salesmen at a dealership just really doesn't help matters.
-Moo